Chris Welch uses Designer Pro 365 to illustrate all 3rd level concepts

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Sunday, 14 September 2008

Collision Or Embrace or Both? A Hadron Question



As Sheila might have suspected, this post had a certain inevitability about it given the launch of the Hadron Collider. BBC Radio 4 gave the whole day to it. Children everywhere including Ben, have been having end of the world nightmares, and one child in India committed suicide. How careful the media reporters have to be on sensitive issues.
For 36 years I have been prophesying in meetings. For 20 years I have been carrying the corporate " entering into" of the third level described by this blog. But this has only become public this year. Interestingly enough, while there may be oblique references to us moving on as a Body....most of my prophecies this year have been about relationship with Jesus and the Father. This further goes to prove, those who prophesy do not choose their subjects. They don't say to themselves...oh, I think I'll say this today.
Although I began this post mid-week, today is Sunday and I was singing and proclaiming about "testimony" today. A good deal of that has been unpacking itself since hearing Rob Rufus speaking about "testimony". Rob Rufus' preachings are peppered with third-level concepts - only he would never describe them as such. Probably wisely.
"Third Level "items are cultural distinctives of a Body that is maturing, and their only relevance is in relationship to our former manner of running Body Life. They are changes that the Holy Spirit is sovereignly making, without some denominational head's say so, or charismatic stream leader's approval. Here is one such Rufus-ism and third-level item. Rob said he dislikes being known as Pastor Rob...or if he is called that , then he reserves the right to address someone as plumber Dave.
The more the third-level message gets out :of Christ in us as us, the more the concept of ministries per se pales away. For example, Norman Grubb calls this whole level, "the apostle level", or "father level". One of my first-ever posts on Dan's site (seems like years ago)was:" Chris said...A safer view of ministries has been stated by Ed Miller who helped father the 50s Argentine breakthrough, and various subsequent moves. He talks of them as taxi drivers.Taxi drivers to the throne of God. Once they have done their task, they actually have less relevance. The end goal of ministry being to reproduce Christ in others. comment to 31st Jan 2008"
Do you remember the Mel Tari books on the Indonesian Revival? "Like a Mighty Wind" and "The Gentle Breeze of Jesus". Apart from the staggering miracle content, the thing that really stood out was their tone. Humility. Normality. No hype. Just: Jesus is alive and does these sort of things,OK? They were a team of people who loved each other, each with their distinct personalities, who went out proclaiming the message. No special ministries. No special names. No conferences. Nope. Just lots of jungle. And facelessness.
This was and is still happening as a result of the Florida Outpouring. I mean who has has ever heard of Matt? From Rustington. Don't know his surname. Yet he has permanently impacted a mass of teenagers at RiverCAMP.
OK that was all an insert.....back to the subject of prophecy.......... Many times this year I have gone into meetings determined to say nothing, because from an English "retiring personality" point of view I have overstepped the mark already. Then I'm off prophesying again. The now Word into the Body, being conveyed by people such as Mark Stibbe , Peter Jackson of Shaftsbury and our own Peter Stott is about coming home to the Father. If this was just a nice trendy talk, that would be one thing, but the most incredible signs and wonders are following this message everywhere. See a copy of Peter's comments for example about what is happening this week (my comment on Dan's blog).The Bible records two types of collisions (probably more - but these two anyway) The colliding embrace of the Prodigal Son with his running Father, and the collision Jacob had with an angel or God Himself in a pre-incarnate form, we don't really know, in Genesis 32:22.
My question is are they the same thing in different manifestations or are we talking about the unfolding of two entirely different experiences in God?
The Hadron Collider explodes atoms in order to view their constituent parts....many of which will never have been viewed before. Later I'll talk about a God Collision.
The prototype revelation of God, which He subsequently sowed into the ground, in order to gain more and more sons in an ever-expanding version of this same revelation, took three generations to unfold. The revelation given to Abraham,then Isaac, then Jacob. This was quite specific and why God is referred to as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. If it was not meant to be as self-contained, presumably a whole further genealogy of names would have been trotted out. But no....it is again a matter of the three stages of revelation which we have with us to this very day.....no more so, because, for the first time in history a whole generation are being called into the Third Level, or Jacob revelation simultaneously. This is referred to in Psalm 24 :6 as "This is the generation of those who seek You, o God of Jacob."This subject is not just Chris Welch going off on one.....this is God now deciding that we as a Body are now corporately well-grounded in the Abraham and the Isaac revelations, and now is the time for the unfolding of the Jacob experience of God. "Seeking His Face".The Abrahamic Covenant concerned the Body believing God and it being reckoned to us as righteousness. Believing on the death and resurrection of Jesus for our salvation. The brazen altar. Also, our obedience to sign on the dotted line of God's New Covenant by our water baptism, and our receiving of the cleansing , washing waters of the Spirit by asking Jesus into our heart. Both describe The Laver (v.18).
The Isaac Covenant is one of Grace Provision. Many commentators look at Abraham and Jacob, then at Isaac and say, well what did he do? He opened wells Gen 26:19. Again and again. Opposed at every turn. He is a figure of the Corporate Pentecostal blessing which has driven us into testing, into a crash maturation process. All we seem to be doing is opening wells and then forced to move on. A lot of maturation comes with us brushing up against orthodoxy(Our Ishmael half-brother), sons of God after the flesh. Some, I said some notice, of our brushes are with denominational approaches to Christianity. Or even in independant churches, this dreadful man-made approach to running churches...even after having received the Spirit. We echo Paul in Galations..."Who has bewitched you??"The third and most important foe is none other than ourselves. Our own Ishmael attempts at doing the Christian Life. I'm afraid it all has to stop!Like Ed Miller, we just stop! Doggedly and determinedly, one day we make a decision...God I'm not doing another thing until You do something through me. I am absolutely not going to fake this stuff anymore. And you know what. God likes that!!!
The wells were pre-dug. This is grace. We receive miracle anointing by grace. We receive the Spirit by grace. Every supernatural gift manifested in our meetings is by grace. Will always be by grace. Then, much as Brad Jersak or others who criticise faith ministries of the 80s...but shockingly , yes, abundance,blessing,riches, all this is included in this stage of revelation see Genesis 26:12, even if at this stage our abundance seems only expressed in our capacity to survive...since with the Devil's onslaught we should surely be dead. Bit like Moses in the desert with his sheep. Exactly how prosperous was he? But he was still alive...after 40 years of it!!! And SO ARE WE.
This is like the Holy of Holies where there is no natural light...only the light of the Holy Spirit. Meetings and churches which make no sense at all but for the experience of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit...experienced individually, but baptising us into our first experience of being a corporate Body...the Body of Christ on earth.
The Jacob Covenant. This is the final revelation stage. We all thought that with the Abraham and Isaac revelations we could swing into the Earth and fulfil Ern Baxter's vision of Going Into the Land (Awe-inspiring and door opening Dales Bible Week 1976) Morris Cerullo grabbed Ern to minister for several months into his newly formed San Diego Schools of Ministry in the late 1970s. These guys have gone on to build huge "warehouses"...hopefully they are more than this...but they really are huge...25,000 or more in one church.
But hold on fellas....there is another anointing, another step to God's Covenant with us. "Seeking the Face of the God of Jacob".This is the Hadron Collider. Throwing up particles in us we never knew we had. The Apostle Peter openly swore violently that he had never even met the man Jesus. Juan Carlos Ortiz talks about John Bunyan's description in Pilgrim's Progress as being too mild. Not laying down your burden at the Cross....but an atom bomb being laid underneath your whole life. What the Bible describes as the Altar of Incense in our approach to the Holy of Holies. Or the Day of Atonement in the Third Feast, the Feast of Tabernacles(14-16).The Jacob Covenant revelation is the last one. It is after this Jacob became Israel. Then history really started happening. The third Level isn't some nice bi-product kind of Christian blog ministry. This is the level where we start unravelling where things went wrong in the beginning in Genesis 3:5. You don't put this right by asking Jesus into your heart. You don't put this right by being baptized in the Spirit. But you do put it right as a Body, by having a Name change.Christ operating in us as us. A Name change.
Later on I will describe more about spiritual warfare and a third-level view of Intercession. But as a taster, I want to take everyone back to Dales Bible Week 1976. In the article link transcribed by Dan you can see Ern talking about "order". This was the first time we saw the thing about going to conferences, as going up to feasts in our tribes. And as rightly related, and submitted groups (which Ed Miller freaked out at)...yet as proto-type embryonic vision...this was accurate...and in this order, for the first time in recent history we addressed the spirits over regions in England. It was not lightly done. There was awe there. There was some smashing of the lightbulbs. There were many many reported sightings of angels. Stuff, of an order, none had ever felt before was happening in that huge cowshed. We weren't that sure what would happen. What we would stir up.
Then on to the late 80s and 90s. Peter Wagner and Cindy Jacobs, and others in Argentina were understanding more about intercession over regions. Opening up cities and lands for God. This was critical as we came into the 90s, because there were many lands we could not reach. So then there was the 10/40 Window thrust, to reach many of the middle Eastern and Asian lands. As a direct result a whole spate of direct personal sightings of Jesus in these nations has been experienced.Coupled with the raising up of satellite TV. I'll tell you some stuff about Rory and Wendy one day.
What I am now saying is this. Intercession so far has been carried out with Abraham and Isaac Revelation only. Now is the time of the Third-Level anointing. Now is the time of a corporate Name change. Now is the time of a corporate Christ in us as us....when each individual just knows who he or she is. A Body like that, across the Earth, history has never seen. That is the Body I am referring to, and describing here. That type of Body is going to exercise huge and paralysing damage to the devil...but remember it is still only enforcement. Enforcement of what Jesus already accomplished on the Cross. And I guess it is that kind of Body that will, with the Spirit, say "Come!"Revelation 22:17. Notice who they say "Come" to. Not to Jesus, as I'd always thought....but to all those who are hungry and thirsty and want the free gift of the water of Life.
That is the Feast of Ingathering at the end of the Feast of Tabernacles. And so the cyclic sowing and reaping cycle of the Body of Christ continues, from Feast to Feast, from age to age, from God move to God move, the same spiritual laws apply. Unbreakable laws of going into the ground and bearing much fruit. This is evangelism. The surface methods are the means. The preaching. The tents. The Sattellite TV. The church activities. But all are meaningless if the Spirit and the Bride are not saying" Come"by the power of the Spirit underneath it all.

17 comments:

RJW said...

Wow, wow ,wow, wow ,wow!!
You, our brother, are teaching Truth!
I know; I have prophesied this Word from the Father, as have others in our fellowship.
Keep sharing; my spirit is singing!

Sheila said...

AH, I should have known! *grin* YES, the Hadron Collider absolutely has prophetic significance. I continue to enjoy your unique perspective. LOVE the "Abraham, Isaac, Jacob" metaphor - much food for thought.

I've heard my husband (and others) preach on "the bones of Joseph"...what you are saying here reminds me, to an extent, of what I've heard Tim teach about those bones.

You know how Joseph commanded that his bones be taken into the Promised Land. My husband has a "take" on that, and it is that every move of God, since the early church began, has added something to our understanding of God and/or His Kingdom. When the "flesh" around that move of God finally dissolves away, you are left with the "bones of Joseph", and we TAKE THOSE WITH US, never throwing the "baby out with the bathwater."

Some of those "bones" (to me) are authority over demon spirits (emphasized during the height of the Charismatic renewal)....healing...the faith movement had its "bones" that we should be taking with us, not leaving behind...

What will the bones be from Toronto, and Florida? I have my own ideas about what those are.

Well, I'll stop there. Keep up the good work, Chris.

Grace and Peace from the Atchley Family to you and yours!

07000intune said...

Tim's a great man it seems...as you so often have said. He's probably wasted in church.Should be a piano tuner

07000intune said...

Only joking Tim!
Jamie, many thanks for that.Although as I covered from Genesis to Revelation you couldn't be more specific could you?
I hope there's more than 2 of you reading this...because even I am starting to understand what I am saying.

RJW said...

Well... since the Word speaks of Christ and prophecy testifies of Christ it is easy to run the gamut...but, I was referring to your last two paragraphs. Please don't make me repeat them; you know I can't type! ;)
I do love this post!

07000intune said...

Thanks Jamie.
Now here's an amazing thing. I haven't written much about Benny Hinn. But around the time he was first getting super well known, he produced a message on tape called "Jesus Is"...talking about Jesus as the I AM. Various unsettling truths came out, that I believe were precursors to where God is taking us. The American pressure was so great, he sort of backed off a little, and immediately produced some orthodox books. In themselves they were no bad thing. One was called the Blood of Jesus, and like Andrew Murray's book , is extremely good. And actually, this and a Morris Cerullo message inspired "The Blood Song" on my CD. But the real point is...I think Benny would have gone a lot further taking us into new places with Jesus were it not for these powerful warehouses you have over there, who want to try and define what a preacher should say. But as I say on my music CD, at least you have faith in the USA...Poor England thinks the Universe runs on scepticism!

RJW said...

Well, you could say we have a head knowledge of the Gospel, but generally most Christians in the US are still trying to work their Christian life instead of letting the Christ of the Christian Life work for them.
Think of the car analogy: Christians think they got a new car for their old, broken down one but they sre still pushing it, instead of letting it carry them!!
America is full of believers who think The Promised Land is Heaven and so they are miserable and defeated and looking for God to come rescue them. What if they matured into the knowledge that The Promised Land is Christ and we are in Him NOW? Instead of trying to attain something that was purchased at the cross, most Christians need a revelation that Christ has obtained All we need for Life and Godliness already!
And we are in Christ and He is in us! People have no clue!
And our churches teach a performance based gospel! Those warehouses house Christians, but unfortunately they hear a deficient Gospel. Christ is sufficient!!! Preach Christ, the cross, the finished work; have the people look to the bronze serpent that was raised on the pole, not go off snake-hunting.
We are better than we know, and renewing our minds to that will release the power of the Life of Christ in us...talk about a move of the Spirit...we don't even know the half!

07000intune said...

Norman would go into USA churches and preach what he called living in continuous revival.
I so believe what you wrote there.I just know that I know that I know that if the Fisherfolk could bring a little bit of heaven into Dr Challoner's Grammar School Amersham in 1973, with the little bit of knowledge and understanding about what Graham Pulkingham was teaching them....then as more and more congregations get this stuff...we won't just be doing "presentations and outreaches "in colleges and schools and town halls....we really will experience what we have longed for, for decades...that bunches of us just madly in love with Jesus and each other...without agendas...without the need to win "so many souls for Jesus" to impress others and be in Christianity Today...but simply being a crowd of informal Jesus lovers, bring the actual Kingdom of Heaven like a cloud with us, wherever we go....and just as it was with the Fisherfolk...then John Wimber, then Toronto, then Florida...just the faceless Body moving, praying for people,healing people, delivering people, ...different ones preaching, singing, teaching...just basically following Jesus around seeing what He is doing next.

Shawna said...

I have to agree with you rjw! The things I'm reading and learning here I have never encountered anywhere in my life as a believer before (I'm in the US too). Performance-based and deficient are unfortunately accurate descriptions of the gospel that I've been exposed to, up until recently. God is being so good to me thought. There is someone in my church that I thought might be onto some of this stuff, and last Tuesday when he prayed out at a "church family meeting" (i.e. laying out new strategies, and updating members on business-y matters) it turnes out I was right and it's better than I thought. I asked him on Sunday if he'd ever read anything by Norman Grubb besides "Intersessor" (he'd previously recommended that book to me) or the book by Maurice Smith. Turns out he hasn't but what he prayed for the church was so right on (about entering God's rest, and spirit of God flooding in and out of every pore of our bodies creating such an atmosphere of total peace), I was so happy, I'm not alone! I've read 20th Century Pilgrim, then Who am I?, then 20th Century Pilgrim again. There's this paragraph in 20th Century Pilgrim that's great, Maurice Smith writes "I know the revelation of this chapter of the book is all mixed up with that of the previous chapter, but that's how it hapened with me. Not all chronological and clinical; but like mists clearing away. Getting a glimpse and losing it, until finally the light of day is breathtakingly clear. The fresh morning air cries out: 'Everest fills all'; or Christ 'fills all in all'. A continuous fixation has come. All is of God." It seems like with each reading a bit more of the mist clears. I'm going to start "Yes, I Am" soon. I wanted to read it with someone else but I think I'm going to have to be satisfied knowing that someone else in my church knows what I'm onto and understands where I'm headed.
I love this line, Chris -
"'Third Level' items are cultural distinctives of a Body that is maturing, and their only relevance is in relationship to our former manner of running Body Life. They are changes that the Holy Spirit is sovereignly making, without some denominational head's say so, or charismatic stream leader's approval." It's true, thank you Holy Spirit.

07000intune said...

Shawna, i thought you'd disappeared into the great white wilderness of USA Warehousedom!! So glad you're OK and if anything buzzing a bit more!!!
-----------------------------
What you described as "getting a glimpse then losing it"....is sort of how it is. Another description would be like the waves of an incoming tide. You could be fooled into thinking each time the wave goes out..."oh well that's it...let's go back home then...it was never true, but it was good thinking about it while it lasted...pity...I really wanted it to be true" then all of a sudden another wave crashes in a few waves later, that is 2 feet further than before.
Or another description which covers our individual Kingdom experience as well as this Corporate historic thing that God is unwinding on the larger scale....namely of Elijah with his head between his knees, while his servant is peering up on a hill, squinting to see something...then finally sees a cloud the size of a man's hand!!!!
I have a new ministry which is being printed in the new versions of the Bible translations of Corinthians. It is the ministry of plagiarism. My uniqueness as far as I can tell...and I may be wrong, is that I have never met or heard of anybody that puts together Ed Miller, with Juan Carlos Ortiz, Norman Grubb,Ern Baxter,Brad Jersak,Mark Stibbe and all the ministries of IMA and George Warnock, finally with people like Mother Basilea Schlink,Graham Pulkingham,Corrie Ten Boom,Richard Wurmbrandt.....you hear of some being lumped together,don't you, but I have never heard any coherent vision anywhere that encompasses the lot of them.
So if plagiarism is the new ministry....and it's what Jesus' role for me is...well, with such a brilliant list as the above, who is bothered about being too creative!!!

I think Dan Bowen has the ministry of transcription. "Beloved...he who transcribes, then let him transcribe...."

07000intune said...

Christine and I were just discussing Godfrey Birtle. As the prophecy of 1989 describes(last post), there have been musicians who have gone ahead. One is Godfrey, who since 2000 or so has produced "wake-up call"CDs for the Body of Christ. He is related to the Moravians, the ones who so affected John Wesley. Godfrey is a northerner and sings the old Moravian Hymn ..." Be lifted up ye gates of Brass"...well Christine reckons (cos she comes from the North too) that the anointing is only on the Northern pronunciation of Brass as in "Wham", whereas us posh southerners want to sing Brass as in "Hark" the Herald. But Christine reckons the anointing just isn't there...it's just got no violence..as in the mighty men of God!

RJW said...

Chris,
If it is not to be too big of an imposition, but would you mind compiling a "must read" list for me? I am unfamiliar with many people you speak of and would like to "catch up".
I am a voracious reader; don't mind length!

Hey, Shawna! :)

07000intune said...

Jamie...I'll have a think.

It's balancing this bookreading that all us bloggers like doing...with the fundamental thing which is living in the Melchizedek order...the Now Word of Christ.
For example I could recommend "Normal Christian Life" by Watchman Nee, but some of that is positively irritating now that a more defined vision has come through Norman Grubb in "Yes I am".

RJW said...

But I loved The Normal Christian Life! (See, you already gave me one! Ha! Gotcha!)
Trust me, The Holy Spirit is my teacher, but I like to read other people's description of their revelation; it's encouraging. :)
The funny thing about the internet; I forget you don't really know me. I don't haunt the Christian book or music section of B&N for the latest fad. I am extremely picky...we must be careful what we put in our head for it can be hard to remove! So, I have only read a handful of "Christian" books. :)

07000intune said...

the Normal chhristian life for me was absolutely stunning. i'd only met methodist stuff before that. To find someone who actually tried to live according to the Bible...no that actually explained the Bible...well...it was so good that at 13 I created a potted version and handed it around my friends.
Well i'm really honoured to be asked. You'd get quite a list from Pete Day or Dan Bowen, Julie or Lydia Joy. I'm thinking......

Shawna said...

Warehousedome!?!? Eew, yuck! :) No, I've just been recovering from an intense summer of fun. My 6 year old is back in school and I love her with all my heart, but she can be mentally exhausting non the less. I also wasn't kidding about being painfully shy online, which I mentioned on Dan's blog.
"ministry of plagiarism" - that's funny. I think you're pretty good at quoting sources, maybe "ministry of resource allocation" or something like that. You're good at connecting the dots. Maybe that comes from hearing/recognizing God's voice so clearly and not getting hung up on the source God's speaking through too much. What ever you call it, thank God for people doing what God's given them to do, including Dan! Wanna hear something funny?!?! Someone (who didn't know me at all) prophecied over me that "God has gifted you to do things that bore others to tears". Honest. But it's so true, give me the task of making all the nametags for that upcoming conference and I'm a very happy person.
Here's something else I'm excited about. Right now the pastor of our church is going to St. Louis for a couple of days of meetings that Julian Adams is going to be at. (He's the guy who had that wonderful prophecy for Rob Rufus at the Northern European Conference.) On his blog his most recent post talks about the UK too. www.frequentsee.net

Hi, rjw (Jamie?)! I haven't seemed to be able to find the time to read much at all until this past year. I've devoured seven books since February. God has been leaving me a trail almost that I've been following. It's been very cool. I'd be interested in seeing what Chris recommended too. I was looking at the George Warnock site that he's got a link to on the side there, seems like some interesting material.

07000intune said...

"ministry of resource allocation"
"God has gifted you to do things that bore others to tears".
thank God for people doing what God's given them to do, including Dan!
...........................
Like it all Shawna.
Indeed, if Dan hadn't obeyed his hunch to get Ern stuff online..I would never be doing anything like this online. He has set an extraordinary pattern. Also he is far more than a transcriber...as you realise when he gets into one of his Ern-type flows. He can articulate things in one paragraph that half a dozen of us take a blog each to do.Goodness knows what'll happen when he really moves into his life-call.