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Monday, 30 July 2018

Nobody told me Jack had died

Jack Fortenberry

Ridgeland

Jasper Estes Fortenberry III, known as Jack, passed away on Tuesday, February 2, 2016 of natural causes at his home in Ridgeland. Visitation will be held on Friday, February 5, 2016 from 1-2 PM at Lakewood Memorial Park on Clinton Blvd. A graveside service will immediately follow at Lakewood Memorial Park.

Jack was born February 21, 1952 to the late, Jasper Estes and Addie Leigh Adams Fortenberry. He married Edi Stanton on November 13, 1982. He graduated from Mississippi College with a BS in accounting, was a Certified Public Accountant and managing shareholder at Fortenberry & Ballard, PC. Jack was a devoted member of a home church fellowship. Jack found peace in time spent playing his mandolin, practicing martial arts, scuba diving in the Pacific Rim, fishing from his reservoir home, and being with his loved ones.

He is survived by wife, Edi; daughters, Emily, Katie, Hope, & Lydia; granddaughters, Emma and Otis; brother, Kent; and sister, Jane; uncles, Bob and Don.

Please visit lakewoodfuneralhomes.com for online guestbook.



Published in Clarion Ledger on Feb. 4, 2016


WRITER OF CORINTHIAN ELDERSPDF available here

When this booklet came out I felt it was so important I did a series of 4 Youtubes to set it into context with what has been happening in the Church

Corinthian Elders Introduction Part One   The 60s until now

Corinthian Elders Part Two   The Melchizedek Order

Corinthian Elders Part Three -  Covenant Foundation and Love

Corinthian Elders Part Four -  The Father's Blessing

Sunday, 29 July 2018

For Study Only - Catholic Teachings by John Reynolds

Half a month ago Imran Saleem posted on Facebook one of his controversial teaching Questions as is his practice to get people chipping in.
John Reynolds started to make some comments based upon the teaching of the Catholic Church.
This post is only put up for people to start to see the very real differences between someone like myself approaching Christianity from scratch at 13, and being baptised in the Spirit in 1972 that year, and having to reassess all I ever knew fed me through Methodism. What does the Bible actually teach? I began with Normal Christian Life by Watchman Nee and also The Holy Spirit and You by Dennis and Rita Bennet.
Both the Outset Club for teenagers in Chesham Bois , Amersham , Bucks near London UK, and somebody from the Open Brethren who worked as a Director for Chubb Locks and invited some of us to his house in Old Amersham, both these folk at the same time were doing studies on Romans.
And reading the gospels, the letters and especially Romans is a great way to start understanding Christian teaching for the Individual.

At times I am riveted by the details of the teachings John writes. Some are Catholic ideas. Some are straight Biblical quotes and some are history as penned by Catholics. I have no reason to believe that all the Catholic deaths are historical and this indeed is a terrible terrible shame on all the church, although I have long come to learn that the devil is really at war with the Name of God, so any way of bringing it into disrepute by scandal and killing, he will use and direct mankind into.
Once or twice I got so mad with john's position I was incredulous, and wanted just to end the futile conversation. Whether a Jesuit organisation is being paid by Google to keep various Christian groups entertained on the net with crazy teachings I have no idea. It even crossed my mind that John Reynolds is a Facebook profile invented purely for training Jesuits or new ministers how to argue their faith.





Chris Welch The Bible relates Jesus breathed on the disciples and they received the spirit. Some days later after the Ascension the disciples were filled with the spirit.From experience it seems now we can have both at once and this was the original plan of Jesus because he used the phrase Repent and be baptised and be filled with the holy spirit
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds You stated: "The Bible relates Jesus breathed on the disciples and they received the spirit"

Breathed on them to be able to do what?

John 20:21-23 Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch What is written in the other gospels?
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Answer my question first...breathed on them to do what?
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch And Mrs Smith handed them a cup of tea and said I hope you do very well in the exams tomorrow. Do you think that drinking tea helps with exams? May or it may not the clause could be joined or it might not
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Here's the answer:

Jesus Christ Granted the Apostles His Authority to Forgive Sins

John 20:21 - before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, "as the Father sent me, so I send you." As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors forgive sins.

John 20:22 - the Lord "breathes" on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord "breathes" divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place.

John 20:23 - Jesus says, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained." In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.

Matt. 9:8 - this verse shows that God has given the authority to forgive sins to "men." Hence, those Protestants who acknowledge that the apostles had the authority to forgive sins (which this verse demonstrates) must prove that this gift ended with the apostles. Otherwise, the apostles' successors still possess this gift. Where in Scripture is the gift of authority to forgive sins taken away from the apostles or their successors?

Matt. 9:6; Mark 2:10 - Christ forgave sins as a man (not God) to convince us that the "Son of man" has authority to forgive sins on earth.

Luke 5:24 - Luke also points out that Jesus' authority to forgive sins is as a man, not God. The Gospel writers record this to convince us that God has given this authority to men. This authority has been transferred from Christ to the apostles and their successors.

Matt. 18:18 - the apostles are given authority to bind and loose. The authority to bind and loose includes administering and removing the temporal penalties due to sin. The Jews understood this since the birth of the Church.

John 20:22-23; Matt. 18:18 - the power to remit/retain sin is also the power to remit/retain punishment due to sin. If Christ's ministers can forgive the eternal penalty of sin, they can certainly remit the temporal penalty of sin (which is called an "indulgence").

2 Cor. 2:10 - Paul forgives in the presence of Christ (some translations refer to the presences of Christ as "in persona Christi"). Some say that this may also be a reference to sins.

2 Cor. 5:18 - the ministry of reconciliation was given to the ambassadors of the Church. This ministry of reconciliation refers to the sacrament of reconciliation, also called the sacrament of confession or penance.

James 5:15-16 - in verse 15 we see that sins are forgiven by the priests in the sacrament of the sick. This is another example of man's authority to forgive sins on earth. Then in verse 16, James says “Therefore, confess our sins to one another,” in reference to the men referred to in verse 15, the priests of the Church.

1 Tim. 2:5 - Christ is the only mediator, but He was free to decide how His mediation would be applied to us. The Lord chose to use priests of God to carry out His work of forgiveness.

Lev. 5:4-6; 19:21-22 - even under the Old Covenant, God used priests to forgive and atone for the sins of others.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch You probably don’t see that everything you write has an agenda that isn’t the Spirit of God.
So you meander around verse picking to prove your point but I can assure you it really is squeezing ugly sisters feet into Cinderella’s shoe.
It’s brilliant to not have an agenda, to be stripped of them so you can read unhindered.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Just your personal opinion...Truths you disagree with and dislike are not of the Holy Spirit or of God or Biblical.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch I agree with the loosing and the binding and the forgiving and the withholding , but you place loads of Catholic things on the top that just aren’t there.
The end goal of the gospel is to produce as many Father level people as possible.
The end goal of Catholicism is to produce a few Queen Bees who rule over hives.
It’s quite a different gospel you preach.
The idolisation of heirarchy for no particular gain.
And don’t tell me I am wrong because I am right. Both Jesus and Moses rebuked your spirit.
Once when people were prophesying and some complained to Moses and Moses said would that everyone were prophets.
And Jesus more or less said the same thing when disciples were complaining “ they are not with us”referring to some who were casting out demons.
Catholics are filled with this demon spirit that comes straight from the world system.
The diligent shall rule.
If I have been diligent in the Spirit then I shall be used in rule situations.
If all you have done is study men’s doctrines but not obeyed what Christ is saying to you in your family , work and church, then you will find you don’t have authority because you haven’t actually been diligent.
“ My own vineyard I have not kept” etc
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "The idolisation of heirarchy for no particular gain."

Just your opinion...

“The Church” is Hierarchical

Matt. 16:18; 18:18- Jesus uses the word "ecclesia" only twice in the New Testament Scriptures, which demonstrates that Jesus intended a visible, unified, hierarchical, and authoritative Church.

Acts 20:17,28- Paul refers to both the elders or priests ("presbyteroi") and the bishops ("episkopoi") of the Church. Both are ordained leaders within the hierarchical structure of the Church.

1 Cor. 12:28 - God Himself appoints the various positions of authority within the Church. As a loving Father, God gives His children the freedom and authority to act with charity and justice to bring about His work of salvation.

Eph. 4:11- the Church is hierarchical and includes apostles, prophets, pastors, and teachers, all charged to build up the Church. The Church is not an invisible entity with an invisible foundation.

Phil. 1:1- Paul addresses the bishops and deacons of the Church. They can all trace their unbroken lineage back to the apostles.

1 Tim. 3:1; Titus 1:7- Christ's Church has bishops ("episkopoi") who are direct successors of the apostles. The bishops can trace the authority conferred upon them back to the apostles.

1 Tim. 5:17; Titus 1:5; James 5:14- Christ's Church also has elders or priests ("presbyteroi") who serve the bishops.

1 Tim. 3:8- Christ's Church also has deacons ("diakonoi"). Thus, Jesus Christ's Church has a hierarchy of authority - bishops, priests and deacons, who can all trace their lineage back to Peter and the apostles.

Exodus 28:1 and 19:6– shows the three offices of the Old Testament priesthood:

(1). high priest – Aaron (Ex. 28:1)
(2). Ministerial priests – Aaron’s sons (Ex. 19:6; 28:1)
(3) Universal priests – Israel (Ex. 19:6).

The New Testament priesthood also has three offices:

(1) High Priest – Jesus Christ (Heb. 3:1)
(2) Ministerial priests – the ordained bishops and priests (Rom. 15:16; 1 Tim. 3:1,8; 5:17; Titus 1:7)
(3) Universal priests - all the baptized (1 Pet. 2:5,9; Rev. 1:6)
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "And Jesus more or less said the same thing when disciples were complaining “ they are not with us”referring to some who were casting out demons."

Note that the passage in question is 9,38-41, and that the apostles had been given the authority to cast out demons, and only they, back in 6,7. This, however, does not demean the authority of Jesus and His ability to delegate this authority the way in which he wants. We have to understand that Jesus was able then, just as He is able now, to discern when someone was doing something in His name. He had the freedom to permit the action to be carried out in His name or to let it be carried out without the benefit of the action having the power of His name behind it. Jesus Himself grants the power behind His name. No one can just use His power
without His permission, as if using His name was some sort of magical formula enabling one to tap into the power of Jesus without Him knowing anything about it.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "Catholics are filled with this demon spirit that comes straight from the world system"

More mere opinion.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Authority...?

Apostolic Succession, Ordination and Authority...the Laying on, or Imposition of Hands.

APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY AND SUCCESSION

The method by which the episcopacy has been derived from the Apostles to the present day. Succession means successive consecration by the LAYING ON OF HANDS, performing the functions of the Apostles, receiving their commission in a lineal sequence from the Apostles, succession in episcopal sees traced back to the Apostles, and successive communion with the apostolic See, i.e., the Bishop of Rome.

AUTHORITY IS TRANSFERRED BY THE SACRAMENT OF ORDINATION

Acts 1:15-26 - the first thing Peter does after Jesus ascends into heaven is implement apostolic succession. Matthias is ordained with full apostolic authority. Only the Catholic Church can demonstrate an unbroken apostolic lineage to the apostles in union with Peter through the sacrament of ordination and thereby claim to teach with Christ's own authority.

Acts 1:20 - a successor of Judas is chosen. The authority of his office (his "bishopric") is respected notwithstanding his egregious sin. The necessity to have apostolic succession in order for the Church to survive was understood by all. God never said, "I'll give you leaders with authority for about 400 years, but after the Bible is compiled, you are all on your own."

Acts 1:22 - literally, "one must be ordained" to be a witness with us of His resurrection. Apostolic ordination is required in order to teach with Christ's authority.

Acts 6:6 - apostolic authority is transferred through the LAYING ON OF HANDS (ordination). This AUTHORITY has transferred BEYOND THE ORIGINAL TWELVE APOSTLES as the Church has grown.

Acts 9:17-19 - even Paul, who was directly chosen by Christ, only becomes a minister after the LAYING ON OF HANDS BY A BISHOP. This is a powerful proof-text for the necessity of sacramental ordination in order to be a legitimate successor of the apostles.

Acts 13:3 - apostolic authority is transferred through the LAYING ON OF HANDS (ordination). This authority must come from a Catholic bishop.

Acts 14:23 - the apostles and newly-ordained men appointed elders to have authority throughout the Church.

Acts 15:22-27 - preachers of the Word must be sent by the bishops in union with the Church. We must trace this authority to the apostles.

2 Cor. 1:21-22 - Paul writes that God has commissioned certain men and sealed them with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee.

Col 1:25 - Paul calls his position a divine "OFFICE." An office has successors. It does not terminate at death. Or it's not an office. See also Heb. 7:23 – an office continues with another successor after the previous office-holder’s death.

1 Tim. 3:1 - Paul uses the word "episcopoi" (bishop) which requires an office. Everyone understood that Paul's use of episcopoi and office meant it would carry on after his death by those who would succeed him.

1 Tim. 4:14 - again, apostolic authority is transferred through the LAYING ON OF HANDS (ordination).

1 Tim. 5:22 - Paul urges Timothy to be careful in LAYING ON THE HANDS (ordaining others). The gift of authority is a reality and cannot be used indiscriminately.

2 Tim. 1:6 - Paul again reminds Timothy the unique gift of God that he received through the laying on of hands.

2 Tim. 4:1-6 - at end of Paul's life, Paul charges Timothy with the office of his ministry . We must trace true apostolic lineage back to a Catholic bishop.

2 Tim. 2:2 - this verse shows God's intention is to transfer authority to successors (here, Paul to Timothy to 3rd to 4th generation). It goes beyond the death of the apostles.

Titus 1:5; Luke 10:1 - the elders of the Church are appointed and hold authority. God has His children participate in Christ's work.

1 John 4:6 - whoever knows God listens to us (the bishops and the successors to the apostles). This is the way we discern truth and error (not just by reading the Bible and interpreting it for ourselves).

Exodus 18:25-26 - Moses appoints various heads over the people of God. We see a hierarchy, a transfer of authority and succession.

Exodus 40:15 - the physical anointing shows that God intended a perpetual priesthood with an identifiable unbroken succession.

Numbers 3:3 - the sons of Aaron were formally "anointed" priests in "ordination" to minister in the priests' "office."

Numbers 16:40 - shows God's intention of unbroken succession within His kingdom on earth. Unless a priest was ordained by Aaron and his descendants, he had no authority.

Numbers 27:18-20 - shows God's intention that, through the "LAYING ON OF HANDS," one is commissioned and has authority.

Deut. 34:9 - Moses LAID HANDS upon Joshua, and because of this, Joshua was obeyed as successor, full of the spirit of wisdom.

Sirach 45:15 - Moses ordains Aaron and anoints him with oil. There is a transfer of authority through formal ordination.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch That’s pure Catholic nonsense. Proverbs is the genuine.
The diligent shall rule.

It’s not opinion when you are sporting that demon hat.

Ofcourse “ only they”
They were the only ones at that point , they were the only ones doing the course.

It’s not a big deal to move in the Name of Jesus
But we do have to train our senses in righteousness

Catholics talk such nonsense about special restrictions here special restrictions there all based on one person called JUSTIN who wasn’t an apostle and was probably facing a time of deep crisis in churches that were not very established.

You are as bad as the people that started worshipping Gideons ephod and the brass snake raised in the wilderness.

It’s alright. Peter is alive in heaven so is JUSTIN but they are irrelevant because the agent who is here on Earth is God Himself, the Holy Spirit.
He can manage things. I know you think it difficult you Catholics but the Holy Spirit has been around since the Beginning. He isn’t the part of the Godhead with L plates.
He was sent to lead into all truth. If that’s not the same as the Popes truth, or Jesuit truth or the truth of the Black Pope
Guess what gets modified.
Correct. Catholic teaching.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch When Jesus corrected the twelve each time they manifested wrong spirits as do the Catholics in most that they do, it’s a good job they didn’t turn to him with their lips upturned saying “ Mere opinion”.
And after three and a half years they were ready to lead this new entity called church.
They no longer called fire down from heaven on villages
They allowed little children to come near.
They no longer disputed who was the greatest among them . It was irrelevant, they got on with serving God.
They no longer argued and fussed and fighted saying “ your opinion” because they knew Him who was from the beginning.
In a way, after the dreadful weekend of the Cross they had all come to learn they knew nothing save what Christ was doing in them at that moment. And it was the simplicity of this Word this life that they had handled touched and tasted that they passed on that others could have fellowship with them and this Life.
The dreadful mess that Catholics make of these verses.
Priests don’t live and function together in any kind of attractive way that is a Light to the world. They have been duped to accept formalism instead of the real Life of Christ, and so ofcourse nothing really works. Priests don’t love each other, they are just local minions in a religious system of works and liturgies.
The Life of Christ actually works and baptism in the Spirit and living in the Spirit is a real thing.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "And after three and a half years they were ready to lead this new entity called church"

Agreed!!!

FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of His Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (John 17:1-26, Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)

The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25-27, Rev. 19:7-8)

The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19-20, Rev. 5:9-10)

The Church Is Apostolic (Succession) (Eph. 2:19-20)
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Any idiot church can say they are one and maintain a few pillars
Islam
Mormonism
Anglicanism
Scientology

Not even evangelicals who maintain more fundamental beliefs than Catholics are one.

Just saying a church is Holy doesn’t mean anything if your Pope was about to be arrested by Interpol June 21st after a Solstice tip-off of what he was going to do to a youngster.
We were there a week later. There has been a media blackout so nobody knows anything.
The Interpol agents were badly beaten and hospitalised.
When we were there the day a new cardinal was being sworn in there was quite a police presence. We ofcourse have no idea what is it isn’t normal police presence.

It’s quite easy to form these type of pillars of belief or stance and then say you adhere to them.
This IS THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.

Step by step thinking

A people and their law book or manual.

Israel in the Old Testament were never quite as simple as two tablets of Laws and that’s that

Or even all the laws of Deuteronomy....

No, as a church or ekklesia in the wilderness they had to follow a pillar of fire by night and cloud by day.

Jesus stated the new foundation. Those who follow the Spirit they are the sons of God.

And as He said
Just like the wind you cannot second guess the Spirit.

So as in the Old Testament everything was Spirit and Word right through the Tabernacle, culminating with Shekinah

So it is now in the Church built upon apostles and prophets then and now, and following hard after the Spirit.

Legitimacy through long lines of formal pronouncement and the blessing of one figurehead is nuts.

Why? Jesus makes it plain ..... if a pope is not following the Spirit, no amount of ritual of blessing is going to work .

The Holy Spirit has always looked after things.
Yes, Samuel anointed both Saul and DAvid , but the common denominator wasn’t the “ line “ through Saul it was the faithful servant Samuel.
The Pope wasn’t even asked by God to get involved with Smith Wigglesworth and the person the Spirit used him to raise up, DAvid DuPlessis.

The Pope was never asked by God to have anything to do with George Jeffries and Reinhard Bonke.

The Holy Spirit said a young man is going to come to your house I want you to bless this last man.

Rheinhard Just happened to be doing a sightseeing trip of London before returning from his course at Rees Howells Bible College. He spied the plaque on the wall of George Jeffries house. He knocked in the door to learn more.
George found strength to come and speak to Rheinhard and then he prayed and blessed Bonnie with all his remaining strength.
By the time Bonnke was back in Germany he heard on the radio that the famous evangelist was dead.
Bonnke went on to win millions across Africa in several decades and see innumerable people baptised in the Spirit as they came to the Lord.

The Pope was nothing to do with any of that, but the Holy Spirit had actually in this case also organised a “ succession” but by no human organisation whatsoever. Rheinhard didn’t even know if the man on the plaque in the house was still alive.

This is the church.
And the Catholic Church isn’t actually Catholic at all because it doesn’t recognise any of these ministries,
never is involved with revival,
And doesn’t know how to lead people into being born again anyway.

It is a huge deception right across the earth, taking the Name of Jesus but having no power, apart from the human power of local police to bludgeon and beat innocent Interpol agents just carrying out their duty.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Sorry...just more hate filled opinion.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds John Reynolds Shouldn't the One True Church...the very same Church our Lord and Savior established in Jerusalem in A.D. 33 be the same age as Christianity?
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch The Church Jesus Christ Himself established in Jerusalem in A.D. 33 is the almost 2,000 year old One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

The Catholic Church of the first century is that same as the Catholic Church of today.

As mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles, it is true that the followers of Christ early became known as "Christians" (cf. Acts 11:26). The name Christian, however, was never commonly applied to the Church herself. In the New Testament itself, the Church is simply called "the Church." There was only one. In that early time there were not yet any break-away bodies substantial enough to be rival claimants of the name and from which the Church might ever have to distinguish herself. “The Way” was also an early reference to the One Church in the Book of Acts (Acts 18:26; 19:9, 23; 22:4; 24:14, 22). However, the Essene community at Qumran used the same designation to describe its mode of life. Very early in post-apostolic times, however, the Church did acquire a proper name--and precisely in order to distinguish herself from rival bodies (like the Essene community at Qumran) which by then were already beginning to form. The name that the Church acquired when it became necessary for her to have a proper name was the name by which she has been known ever since-the Catholic Church.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Since the second half of the first century (50-100 A.D.) the Church Jesus Christ founded has been called the “Catholic Church”.

Ignatius converted to Christianity at a young age. Tradition identifies Ignatius, along with his friend Polycarp, as disciples of John the Apostle. Later in his life Ignatius was chosen to serve as a Bishop of Antioch.

Jesus Christ taught divinely revealed Truth to the Apostle John who handed it on to St. Ignatius…who wrote this:

"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 107 - 110).

We see from this short text that by the end of the first century the following has already been well established, there are Bishops, Priests, Deacons, and especially the term “Eucharist” and the formal name of the Church.

Ignatius uses this formal name of the Church our Lord Jesus Christ established (A.D. 33) as if it is already widely known.

Sure sounds like the Catholic Church of today….don’t you think?

When was the word "Catholic" first used?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shczHGr290g


02 min, 08 sec

By Jimmy Akin, former Protestant
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YOUTUBE.COM
When was the word "Catholic" first used?
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Pope Francis impending arrest...proof please?
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Succession

Authority is Transferred by the Sacrament of Ordination

Acts 1:15-26 – the first thing Peter does after Jesus ascends into heaven is implement apostolic succession. Matthias is ordained with full apostolic authority. Only the Catholic Church can demonstrate an unbroken apostolic lineage to the apostles in union with Peter through the sacrament of ordination and thereby claim to teach with Christ’s own authority.

Acts 1:20 – a successor of Judas is chosen. The authority of his office (his “bishopric”) is respected notwithstanding his egregious sin. The necessity to have apostolic succession in order for the Church to survive was understood by all. God never said, “I’ll give you leaders with authority for about 400 years, but after the Bible is compiled, you are all on your own.”

Acts 1:22 – literally, “one must be ordained” to be a witness with us of His resurrection. Apostolic ordination is required in order to teach with Christ’s authority.

Acts 6:6 – apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority has transferred beyond the original twelve apostles as the Church has grown.

Acts 9:17-19 – even Paul, who was directly chosen by Christ, only becomes a minister after the laying on of hands by a bishop. This is a powerful proof-text for the necessity of sacramental ordination in order to be a legitimate successor of the apostles.

Acts 13:3 – apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority must come from a Catholic bishop.

Acts 14:23 – the apostles and newly-ordained men appointed elders to have authority throughout the Church.

Acts 15:22-27 – preachers of the Word must be sent by the bishops in union with the Church. We must trace this authority to the apostles.

2 Cor. 1:21-22 – Paul writes that God has commissioned certain men and sealed them with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee.

Col 1:25 – Paul calls his position a divine “office.” An office has successors. It does not terminate at death. Or it’s not an office. See also Heb. 7:23 – an office continues with another successor after the previous office-holder’s death.

1 Tim. 3:1 – Paul uses the word “episcopoi” (bishop) which requires an office. Everyone understood that Paul’s use of episcopoi and office meant it would carry on after his death by those who would succeed him.

1 Tim. 4:14 – again, apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination).

1 Tim. 5:22 – Paul urges Timothy to be careful in laying on the hands (ordaining others). The gift of authority is a reality and cannot be used indiscriminately.

2 Tim. 1:6 – Paul again reminds Timothy the unique gift of God that he received through the laying on of hands.

2 Tim. 4:1-6 – at end of Paul’s life, Paul charges Timothy with the office of his ministry . We must trace true apostolic lineage back to a Catholic bishop.

2 Tim. 2:2 – this verse shows God’s intention is to transfer authority to successors (here, Paul to Timothy to 3rd to 4th generation). It goes beyond the death of the apostles.

Titus 1:5; Luke 10:1 – the elders of the Church are appointed and hold authority. God has His children participate in Christ’s work.

1 John 4:6 – whoever knows God listens to us (the bishops and the successors to the apostles). This is the way we discern truth and error (not just by reading the Bible and interpreting it for ourselves).

Exodus 18:25-26 – Moses appoints various heads over the people of God. We see a hierarchy, a transfer of authority and succession.

Exodus 40:15 – the physical anointing shows that God intended a perpetual priesthood with an identifiable unbroken succession.

Numbers 3:3 – the sons of Aaron were formally “anointed” priests in “ordination” to minister in the priests’ “office.”

Numbers 16:40 – shows God’s intention of unbroken succession within His kingdom on earth. Unless a priest was ordained by Aaron and his descendants, he had no authority.

Numbers 27:18-20 – shows God’s intention that, through the “laying on of hands,” one is commissioned and has authority.

Deut. 34:9 – Moses laid hands upon Joshua, and because of this, Joshua was obeyed as successor, full of the spirit of wisdom.

Sirach 45:15 – Moses ordains Aaron and anoints him with oil. There is a transfer of authority through formal ordination.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Ritual

At the Last Supper, Jesus Christ, GOD, gave us a Grace filled RITUAL...

Jesus Institutes the Eucharist / More Proofs of the Real Presence

Matt. 26:26-28; Mark. 14:22,24; Luke 22;19-20; 1 Cor. 11:24-25 – Jesus says, this IS my body and blood. Jesus does not say, this is a symbol of my body and blood.

Matt. 26:26; Mark. 14:22; Luke 22:19-20 – the Greek phrase is “Touto estin to soma mou.” This phraseology means “this is actually” or “this is really” my body and blood.

1 Cor. 11:24 – the same translation is used by Paul – “touto mou estin to soma.” The statement is “this is really” my body and blood. Nowhere in Scripture does God ever declare something without making it so.

Matt. 26:26; Mark. 14:22; Luke 22:19 – to deny the 2,000 year-old Catholic understanding of the Eucharist, Protestants must argue that Jesus was really saying “this represents (not is) my body and blood.” However, Aramaic, the language that Jesus spoke, had over 30 words for “represent,” but Jesus did not use any of them. He used the Aramaic word for “estin” which means “is.”

Matt. 26:28; Mark. 14:24; Luke 22:20 – Jesus’ use of “poured out” in reference to His blood also emphasizes the reality of its presence.

Exodus 24:8 – Jesus emphasizes the reality of His actual blood being present by using Moses’ statement “blood of the covenant.”

1 Cor. 10:16 – Paul asks the question, “the cup of blessing and the bread of which we partake, is it not an actual participation in Christ’s body and blood?” Is Paul really asking because He, the divinely inspired writer, does not understand? No, of course not. Paul’s questions are obviously rhetorical. This IS the actual body and blood. Further, the Greek word “koinonia” describes an actual, not symbolic participation in the body and blood.

1 Cor. 10:18 – in this verse, Paul is saying we are what we eat. We are not partners with a symbol. We are partners of the one actual body.

1 Cor. 11:23 – Paul does not explain what he has actually received directly from Christ, except in the case when he teaches about the Eucharist. Here, Paul emphasizes the importance of the Eucharist by telling us he received directly from Jesus instructions on the Eucharist which is the source and summit of the Christian faith.

1 Cor. 11:27-29 – in these verses, Paul says that eating or drinking in an unworthy manner is the equivalent of profaning (literally, murdering) the body and blood of the Lord. If this is just a symbol, we cannot be guilty of actually profaning (murdering) it. We cannot murder a symbol. Either Paul, the divinely inspired apostle of God, is imposing an unjust penalty, or the Eucharist is the actual body and blood of Christ.

1 Cor. 11:30 – this verse alludes to the consequences of receiving the Eucharist unworthily. Receiving the actual body and blood of Jesus in mortal sin results in actual physical consequences to our bodies.

1 Cor. 11:27-30 – thus, if we partake of the Eucharist unworthily, we are guilty of literally murdering the body of Christ, and risking physical consequences to our bodies. This is overwhelming evidence for the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. These are unjust penalties if the Eucharist is just a symbol.

Acts 2:42 – from the Church’s inception, apostolic tradition included celebrating the Eucharist (the “breaking of the bread”) to fulfill Jesus’ command “do this in remembrance of me.”

Acts 20:28 – Paul charges the Church elders to “feed” the Church of the Lord, that is, with the flesh and blood of Christ.

Matt. 6:11; Luke 11:3 – in the Our Father, we ask God to give us this day our daily bread, that is the bread of life, Jesus Christ.

Matt. 12:39 – Jesus says no “sign” will be given except the “sign of the prophet Jonah.” While Protestants focus only on the “sign” of the Eucharist, this verse demonstrates that a sign can be followed by the reality (here, Jesus’ resurrection, which is intimately connected to the Eucharist).

Matt. 19:6 – Jesus says a husband and wife become one flesh which is consummated in the life giving union of the marital act. This union of marital love which reflects Christ’s union with the Church is physical, not just spiritual. Thus, when Paul says we are a part of Christ’s body (Eph. 1:22-23; 5:23,30-31; Col. 1:18,24), he means that our union with Christ is physical, not just spiritual. But our union with Christ can only be physical if He is actually giving us something physical, that is Himself, which is His body and blood to consume (otherwise it is a mere spiritual union).

Luke 14:15 – blessed is he who eats this bread in the kingdom of God, on earth and in heaven.

Luke 22:19, 1 Cor. 11:24-25 – Jesus commands the apostles to “do this,” that is, offer the Eucharistic sacrifice, in remembrance of Him.

Luke 24:26-35 – in the Emmaus road story, Jesus gives a homily on the Scriptures and then follows it with the celebration of the Eucharist. This is the Holy Mass, and the Church has followed this order of the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist for 2,000 years.

Luke 24:30-31,35 – Jesus is known only in the breaking of bread. Luke is emphasizing that we only receive the fullness of Jesus by celebrating the Eucharistic feast of His body and blood, which is only offered in its fullness by the Catholic Church.

John 1:14 – literally, this verse teaches that the Word was made flesh and “pitched His tabernacle” among us. The Eucharist, which is the Incarnate Word of God under the appearance of bread, is stored in the tabernacles of Catholic churches around the world.

John 21:15,17 – Jesus charges Peter to “feed” His sheep, that is, with the Word of God through preaching and the Eucharist.

Acts 9:4-5; 22:8; 26:14-15 – Jesus asks Saul, “Why are you persecuting me?” when Saul was persecuting the Church. Jesus and the Church are one body (Bridegroom and Bride), and we are one with Jesus through His flesh and blood (the Eucharist).

1 Cor. 12:13 – we “drink” of one Spirit in the Eucharist by consuming the blood of Christ eternally offered to the Father.

Heb. 10:25,29 – these verses allude to the reality that failing to meet together to celebrate the Eucharist is mortal sin. It is profaning the body and blood of the Lord.

Heb. 12:22-23 – the Eucharistic liturgy brings about full union with angels in festal gathering, the just spirits, and God Himself, which takes place in the assembly or “ecclesia” (the Church).

Heb. 12:24 – we couldn’t come to Jesus’ sprinkled blood if it were no longer offered by Jesus to the Father and made present for us.

2 Pet. 1:4 – we partake of His divine nature, most notably through the Eucharist – a sacred family bond where we become one.

Rev. 2:7; 22:14 – we are invited to eat of the tree of life, which is the resurrected flesh of Jesus which, before, hung on the tree.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Are there sinners in the One True Church...YES!

Controversies and Scandals in the Church

Matt. 13:24-30 – scandals have always existed in the Church, just as they have existed outside of the Church. This should not cause us to lose hope in the Church. God’s mysterious plan requires the wheat and the weeds to be side by side in the Church until the end of time.

Matt. 13:47-50 – God’s plan is that the Church (the kingdom of heaven) is a net which catches fish of every kind, good and bad. God revealed this to us so that we will not get discouraged by the sinfulness of the Church’s members.

Matt. 16:18 – no matter how sinful its members conduct themselves, Jesus promised that the gates of death will never prevail against the Church.

Matt. 23:2-3 – the Jewish people would have always understood the difference between a person’s sinfulness and his teaching authority. We see that the sinfulness of the Pharisees does not minimize their teaching authority. They occupy the “cathedra” of Moses.

Matt. 26:70-72; Mark 14:68-70; Luke 22:57; John 18:25-27 – Peter denied Christ three times, yet he was chosen to be the leader of the Church, and taught and wrote infallibly.

Mark 14:45 – Judas was unfaithful by betraying Jesus. But his apostolic office was preserved and this did not weaken the Church.

Mark 14:50 – all of Jesus’ apostles were unfaithful by abandoning Him in the garden of Gethsemane, yet they are the foundation of the Church.

John 20:24-25 – Thomas the apostle was unfaithful by refusing to believe in Jesus’ resurrection, yet he taught infallibly in India.

Rom. 3:3-4 – unfaithful members do not nullify the faithfulness of God and the work of the Holy Spirit in the Church.

Eph. 5:25-27 – just as Jesus Christ has both a human and a divine nature, the Church, His Bride, is also both human and divine. It is the holy and spotless bride of Christ, with sinful human members.

1 Tim. 5:19 – Paul acknowledges Church elders might be unfaithful. The Church, not rebellion and schism, deals with these matters.

2 Tim. 2:13 – if we remain faithless, God remains faithful for He cannot deny Himself.

2 Tim. 2:20 – a great house has not only gold and silver, but also wood and earthenware, some for noble use, some for ignoble use.

Jer. 24:1-10 – God’s plan includes both good and bad figs. The good figs will be rewarded, and the bad figs will be discarded.

1 Kings 6,7,8 – the Lord commands us to build elaborate places of worship. Some non-Catholics think that this is controversial and the money should be given to the poor, even though no organization does more for the poor of the world that the Catholic Church. We create our churches with beauty because Christ our King lives in the churches in the blessed Eucharist.

Matt. 26:8-9; Mark 14:4-5; John 12:5 – negative comments concerning the beauty of the Church are like the disciples complaining about the woman anointing Jesus’ head with costly oil. Jesus desires that we honor Him with our best gifts, not for Him, but for us, so that we realize He is God and we are His creatures.

Matt. 26:10-11 – Jesus says we have both a duty to honor God and give to the poor – a balanced life of reverence and charity.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch John Reynolds, the issue isn’t the traditional Protestant / Catholic divide thing of
Is it a symbol or is it actually Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit brought correction by identifying that when saints are gathered in Jesus Name there He is in our midst.
Not a symbol of Him.
Not a psychological idea of Him. But the actual Person of Jesus

If we eat and drink in remembrance of Him it is to us His Body and Blood.

Ignatius is wrong that a priest has to be present.
He was probably protecting against levity, but where the Holy Spirit is honoured there is no need for half the Catholic paraphernalia , or else Jesus would have said so.

God is Spirit. There is no benefit in believing for the actual physical body and blood of Jesus while on earth.
Demons get off on it, and like the idea of always causing harm to Jesus like they did the first time.
So no, we are not ever offering the same sacrifice . It is finished means it is finished.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch https://youtu.be/dB3bIfYIGcY
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YOUTUBE.COM
POPE ARRESTED! - WORLDWIDE MEDIA…
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Just more nonsensical, crazy opinion.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch It is finished...

Christ's Sacrifice on the Cross FINISHED, fulfilled the Old Covenant and brought it into the New.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch The Eucharist is literally the Flesh and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ...not symbolic or parable.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch People argue and argue over this point, only the Holy Spirit sorts it.
And I personally believe the Catholic Mother Teresa had it right.
But whether you have it right I’d have to be there in a Holy Spirit gathering with you.
Catholicism is dreadful in the way it allows syncretism, it allows and encourages the worship of Mary, the veneration of bones and carrying them round villages morbidly and calling that Corpus Christi,
And while some may recognise the Eucharist is a done deal, loads and loads still believe they are offering up Jesus Body crucifying Him afresh, but Catholics don’t bring definition to anything, preferring the numbers game and the tithe, to correcting and maturing Saints. Everybody is aware of this but Catholics.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Think of all the things the Catholic Church has wrecked
Singing in the Spirit crystallised now into plainsong
Community Living now crystallised into single sex communities complete with daft costumes and no particular vision of what it is all for. Many are just on vague personal pilgrimages which never see the light of day and because the communities are do formalised they cannot proliferate or extend the kingdom which was the whole point of community Living as acceleration.
Calling Jesus in John 4 a liar when He said it’s not about geographical places now it’s about worship in Spirit and truth, and what do Catholics do? Spit on Jesus and build the most lavish geographically rooted buildings on the planet.
So like Judaism and Islam we have to travel over land and sea and go up the Vatican or our national equivalent.
If Jesus says
Repent be baptised and be filled with the Spirit,

What do Catholics do?
Twist Jewish dedication of babies into an insane baptism of people to young to choose, then practically twist 8 year olds arms to do catechism and try and put right what they have already done wrong.
They rip personal experience out of people’s lives.
No one gets born again or baptised properly nor baptised in the Spirit.
Historically if anybody anywhere points out the original scriptures and commands of Jesus, Catholics murder them, like the 70 English bishops burned to death in Anglesey.
Catholics tar all Protestants with daft names like non Conformists and forbid them to build chapels anywhere near the main roads of towns.
Catholics who don’t conform to Jesus commands label all those who do non Conformist.
They disallow Bibles and this present pope says personal relationship with Jesus is dangerous.
Yes, all others might just find out what Popes really get up to.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Wow...you can ramble on with the crazy nonsense...hate has driven you mad.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Geographic Kingdom...the Church

The Christological Dimension

Here we see that “the Kingdom is not a thing, it is not a geographical dominion like worldly kingdoms. It is a person; it is he. On this interpretation, the term ‘Kingdom of God’ is itself a veiled Christology. By the way in which he speaks of the Kingdom of God, Jesus leads men to realize the overwhelming fact that in him God himself is present among them, that he is God’s presence.” (Pope Benedict, Jesus of Nazareth, Part 1)

The Idealistic/Mystical Dimension

Here we see that The Kingdom of God resides in the heart of man. Church Father, Origen wrote, “those who pray for the coming of the Kingdom of God pray without any doubt for the Kingdom of God that they contain in themselves, and they pray that this kingdom might bear fruit and attain its fullness.”

The Ecclesiastical Dimension

Here we see that the kingdom of God is in the here and now, present in and through the Church. Yet it is a mixed reality that will only be perfectly realized at the end of history. This current “mixed” state can be seen as the Church on earth which now grows in the field of the world with both weeds and wheat until the harvest when Christ says he will “tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned. But gather the wheat into my barn” (Matt 13:30).
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Humanly we think aaaah Israel was a failure
Or Church has been a failure
But Presence has always had its counterpart of judgment

The judgments have begun with the house of the Lord

In Gods building site the Light set upon a hill.. the brief instances of absolute glory, are set inside the negative reactions of mans flesh to God moving.

Judaism was the story of God excavating the first place in Gods 🏠
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Church history is the story of the other two “ covered” places being excavated.

We don’t think of supernatural seed itself as having to die and fall into the ground, but it surely has. The initial Church itself which contained so much Jewish paraphernalia had to die. But even the Gentile Church had to die, and in Catholicism it did, reaching the point of virtual no return as apostate by the time of Luther.
By revelation alone, the Heavenly Tabernacle has been rebuilt by slow painful steps, with Catholics killing and opposing each step.
First the the establishing that justification is by faith.
A proper heavenly version of the brazen altar reinstalled.
The washing of water in the Word together with the Lavers meaning of baptism was restored.
Catholics had hidden the Bible for centuries such is their wickedness.
Elements of true church structure the emerged with Presbyterian churches, Quakers and the Brethren.
By 1900 the work of God really accelerated with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit taking Gods Church more fully into the covered areas of the Tabernacle.
Catholicism opposed everything God has ever done in the form of Revival Moves and new Light, which is really old Light revisited by the Holy Spirit.

Fighting God tooth and claw, psalm 2, God just laughs and sure enough the same Pentecostal experiences start happening in Ann Arbor Michigan in the Catholic Community raised up there, and in Paderborn West Germany where I was. In 1975 thousands of newly baptised in the Spirit Catholics all meet in Rome and I have noted on my blog many of the prophecies given, which are incredibly accurate.
But ofcourse people were baptised in the Spirit on all the denominations.

The same Catholic spirit which has fought so hard to destroy Gods work has been in all the other of mans denominations, so similar to the story of Esau and Jacob, God takes the younger brother always because the elder brother sells his inheritance for some pottage or other.....
Usually tithe income and structure....

And in 1975 the Word went forth to build new churches and these are now in every town.

But they too are only secondlevel.
They accept the doctrine of rebirth and proper entry into Gods Tabernacle
They accept the baptism in the Spirit which takes them into the first covered area

But like all churches before them, and Catholics and Jews too,
nobody wants to eat Christ as He said in JOHN 6.

If we do we start to become the thirdlevel church that the apostles were, and the purity and power with which they were ministering in Acts.

And this God has promised before this age finishes....

And if like Jacob and Esau he has to discard
Israel and throw things to Gentiles....
And if the Gentile church don’t wish to hear
Then God has stated He will ignore all the sins of the Kingdom and go out into the highways and byways and compel them to come in.

Eight or more years ago in Iceland one of the Icelandic Street pimps and vice people kept waking up in the night with dreams of horrific judgment.
He called out to the Lord and the Lord saved him.
With no religious background he began a church among the people of the street in Reykjavik.
People of the last big Move of God, John and Carol Arnott were used to establish them in the faith.

Again, the Pope was nowhere to be seen. Neither were any denominations.

Jesus said of the instincts in the Spirit

Where the dead body is the carrion or eagles gather

Those who follow the Spirit are in the right place at the right time.

Catholics vote with their feet. Over 1700 years they have never been involved with any of the Moves of God. And in the coming times it looks like none of the church will be involved as God picks and chooses people from the highways and byways. Incidentally, just as the 12 apostles were .
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Chris Welch Wow...you can ramble on with the crazy nonsense...hate has driven you mad.

John Reynolds
Subtext
He’s right, I can’t fight all those historic examples of failure , better ignore them and move on as the Jesuits teach us to.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch John Reynolds ‘
Example of crazy nonsense
Murdering 70 of the original bishops by burning them alive in Bangor Wales

With sensitivity like this you can see why Catholicism isn’t getting anywhere. Instead of repenting the denomination continually houses Satanic rites right up to the present day, and missing children are presented in blood sacrifice. What begins in blood as blood lust must end in blood if there is no repentance.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "With sensitivity like this you can see why Catholicism isn’t getting anywhere"

Critics keep announcing the Church's imminent demise. If only they realised that numbers have doubled since 1970 – and are still rising

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/.../catholicisms.../
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Catholicism’s incredible growth story | CatholicHerald.co.uk
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "Instead of repenting the denomination"

Jesus Christ established a Church, not denominations.

Scripture reveals this Church to be the one Jesus Christ built upon the rock of Saint Peter (Matt. 16:18). By giving Peter the keys of authority (Matt. 16:19), Jesus appointed Peter as the chief steward over His earthly kingdom (cf. Isaiah. 22:19-22). Jesus also charged Peter to be the source of strength for the rest of the apostles (Luke 22:32) and the earthly shepherd of Jesus' flock (John 21:15-17). Jesus further gave Peter, and the apostles and elders in union with him, the power to bind and loose in heaven what they bound and loosed on earth. (Matt. 16:19; 18:18). This teaching authority did not die with Peter and the apostles, but was transferred to future bishops through the laying on of hands (e.g., Acts 1:20; 6:6; 13:3; 8:18; 9:17; 1 Tim. 4:14; 5:22; 2 Tim. 1:6).
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Over the later parts of his reign, John Paul II made a series of apologies to various peoples that had been wronged by the Catholic Church through the years. Even before he became the Pope, he was a prominent supporter of initiatives like the Letter of Reconciliation of the Polish Bishops to the German Bishops from 1965. During his reign as a Pope, he publicly made apologies for over 100 of these wrongdoings, including:

For the execution of Jan Hus in 1415 (18 December 1999 in Prague). When John Paul II visited Prague in 1990s, he requested experts in this matter "to define with greater clarity the position held by Jan Hus among the Church's reformers, and acknowledged that "independently of the theological convictions he defended, Hus cannot be denied integrity in his personal life and commitment to the nation's moral education." It was another step in building a bridge between Catholics and Protestants.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch May I point out that the Protestants had a counter-inquisition that killed Catholics.

Thousands of Catholics were killed in England alone after the Reformation struck there. The same thing was true in Ireland and other areas where the Reformation came. John Calvin, for instance, was known for burning people at the stake.

In addition, Protestants were the big witch-burners. Witch burning never caught on in Catholic countries. When the Spanish Inquisition examined the cases of reported witches, it almost invariably concluded that the charges were false and the accused were not guilty. But tens of thousands of supposed witches were burned at the stake, hanged, or drowned in Protestant countries, including the American colonies
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Who will apologize for the Catholics that have been martyred during the Protestant revolt…?
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch List of Catholics executed for their faith in just England 1534 – 1680

1534 – 1560

Thomas Abel, priest, 1540
John Allen, priest, 1538
George Ashby (Asleby), monk, 1537
Ralph Barnes, monk, 1537
Elizabeth Barton, Benedictine nun, 1534
John Beche, Abbot of Colchester, 1539; blessed 1895
Thomas Belchiam, Franciscan friar, 1538
Arthur Bell, Franciscan friar, 1543
Richard Bere, Carthusian monk, 1537
Robert Bird, priest, 1540
William Bird, priest, 1540
Laurence Blonham, monk, 1537
Edward Bocking, Benedictine, 1537
Edmund Brindholme, priest, 1544
Anthony Brookby, Franciscan, 1538
Thomas Brownel, Brigittine brother
Edward Burden, priest, 1538
William Burraby, priest, 1537
James Cockerell, Prior of Gisborough Priory, 1537
William Coe, monk, 1537
Lawrence Cook, Carmelite. Prior of Doncaster Friary, 1540[1]
Richard Coppinger, Benedictine, 1558
Thomas Cort, Franciscan, 1537[2]
Martin Coudres, Augustinian monk, 1544
William Cowper, monk, 1537
George Croft, priest, 1538
John Davy, Carthusian, 1537
John Dering, Benedictine, 1537
John Eastgate, monk, 1537
Richard Eastgate, monk, 1537
Thomas Empson, Benedictine, 1540
William Exmew, Carthusian monk, 1535
John Eynon, priest, 1539; blessed 1895
Hugh Faringdon, Abbot of Reading, 1539; blessed 1895
Richard Featherstone, Archdeacon, 1540
John Fisher, Bishop of Rochester, 1535; saint 1935
John Forrest, Franciscan friar, 1538
Adrian Fortescue, Knight of St. John of Jerusalem, 1539; blessed 1895
John Francis, monk, 1537
German Gardiner, 1544
Henry Gold, priest, 1537
William Greenwood, Carthusian brother, 1537
William Gylham, monk, 1537
John Haile (or Hale), priest, 1535
Richard Harrison, Abbot of Jervaulx, 1537
William Haydock, monk, 1537
Nicholas Heath, Prior of Lenton, 1537
John Henmarsh, priest, 1537
Robert Hobbes, Abbot of Woburn, 1537
John Houghton, Prior of the London Charterhouse, 1535; saint 1970
John Ireland, priest, 1544
Roger James, Benedictine, 1539; blessed 1895
Henry Jenkinson, monk, 1537
Thomas Kendal, priest, 1537
John Larke, priest, 1543
Robert Lawrence, Prior of the Beauvale Charterhouse, 1535; saint 1970
Richard Laynton, monk, 1537
Robert Leeche, layman, 1537
Hugh Londale, monk, 1537
Matthew Mackerel, Premonstratensian abbot, titular bishop of Chalcedon, 1537
James Mallet, priest, 1537
Richard Masters, priest, 1537
Humphrey Middlemore, Carthusian monk, 1535
Thomas More, layman, 1535; saint 1935
Sebastian Newdigate, Carthusian monk, 1535
John Paslew, Abbot of Whatley, 1537
Paul of Saint William, Augustinian monk, 1544
William Peterson, priest, 1540
John Pickering, Benedictine, prior of York, 1537
John Pickering, priest, 1537
Walter Pierson, Carthusian, 1537
Edward Powell, priest, 1540
Thomas Redforth, priest, 1537
Richard Reynolds, Brigittine monk of Syon Abbey, 1535; saint 1970
Hugh Rich, Franciscan friar, 1534
William Richardson, priest, 1540
Richard Risby, Franciscan friar, 1534
John Rochester, Carthusian monk, 1537
John Rugg, Benedictine monk, 1539; blessed 1895
Adam Sedbar, Abbot of Jervaulx, 1537
Robert Singleton, priest, 1544
Thomas Slythurst, priest, 1560
John Stone, Augustinian friar, 1538; saint 1970
William Swale, monk, 1537
John Tenant, monk, 1537
John Thorne, Benedictine monk, 1539; blessed 1895
William Thyrsk, Cistercian, 1537
William Trafford, Abbot of Sawley, 1537
John Travers, monk, 1539
Richard Wade, monk, 1537
Friar Waire, Franciscan, 1539
James Walworth, Carthusian monk, 1537
Augustine Webster, Prior of the Axholme Charterhouse, 1535; saint 1970
Sister Isabel Whitehead, Benedictine nun
Richard Whiting, Abbot of Glastonbury, 1539; blessed 1895
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Decrees of Elizabeth I

After Elizabeth I's accession to the throne, the religion of the country was changed again to make it Protestant. Within England, however, there were still many people who did not agree with this and continued to remain loyal to the old faith. The threat of a foreign invasion from a Catholic country that could be assisted by a rebellion of English subjects led the Crown to try to stamp out Catholicism with repressive measures.

Elizabeth I's government had passed a number of anti-Catholic decrees in 1571, including the following:

• forbidding anyone from maintaining the jurisdiction of the pope by word, deed or act
• compulsory use of the Book of Common Prayer in all cathedrals, churches and chapels, as well as the forbiddance of criticism of it
• forbidding the publication of any bull, writing or instrument of the Holy See (the death penalty was assigned to this)
• the importing of Agnus Dei, crosses, pictures, beads or other things from the Bishop of Rome was forbidden

Later laws

• to draw anyone away from the state religion was forbidden
• non-attendance at a Church of England church was legally forbidden, as well as not raising children with teachers that were not licensed by a diocesan bishop was not allowed
• the Catholic Mass was forbidden

In 1585 a new decree was issued that made it a crime punishable by death to go overseas to receive the sacrament of Ordination to the Catholic priesthood or permanent diaconate. Nicholas Deverex (who went by the alias of Woodson) and Edward Barber (see below Edward Stransham) were both put to death in 1586 under this law. William Thompson and Richard Lea (see below Richard Sergeant) were hanged, bowelled and quartered under the same law. In 1588, eight priests and six laymen at Newgate were condemned and executed under this law.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch 1561 - 1600

John Ackridge, priest, 1585…See more
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Thomas Metham, Jesuit, 1592
Anthony Middleton, priest, 1590
Robert Morton, priest, 1588
Thomas Mudde, Cistercian, 1583
John Munden, priest, 1584
John Nelson, priest, 1577, was executed at Tynburn for denying the Queen's supremacy and refusing to take the oath.
George Nichols, priest, 1589; blessed 1987
John Norton, layman, 1600; blessed 1987
John Nutter, priest, 1584
Robert Nutter, priest, 1600; blessed 1987
Edward Oldcorne, Jesuit priest, 1561
Edward Osbaldeston, priest, 1594; blessed 1987
Antony Page, priest, 1593; blessed 1987
Thomas Palasor, priest, 1600; blessed 1987
William Patenson, priest, 1592
John Payne, priest, 1582; saint 1970
Thomas Percy, Earl of Northumberland, layman, 1572; blessed 1895
William Pike, layman, 1591; blessed 1987
Thomas Pilchard, priest, 1587; blessed 1987
Polydore Plasden, priest, 1591; saint 1970
Thomas Plumtree, priest, 1570
Edward Pole, priest, 1585
Thomas Pormort, priest, 1592; blessed 1987
Humphrey Pritchard, layman, 1589; blessed 1987
Alexander Rawlins, priest, 1595
John Rigby, layman, 1600; saint 1970
Christopher Robinson, priest, 1597; blessed 1987
John Robinson, priest, 1588
John Roche, priest, 1588
Stephen Rowsham, priest, 1587; blessed 1987
John Sandys, priest, 1586; blessed 1987
Montford Scott, priest, 1591; blessed 1987
Thomas Sedgwick, priest, 1573
Richard Sergeant, priest, 1586; blessed 1987
Martin Sherson, priest, 1587
John Shert, priest, 1582
Ralph Sherwin, priest, 1581; saint 1970
Thomas Sherwood, layman, 1579; blessed 1886, had been a student at a seminary in the Low countries at Douai, and was arrested on suspicion. When the question was put to him, he answered that he believed the pope rather than the queen was pre-eminent. He was therefore tortured (in order to get him to give the location where he heard mass), and then hanged, cut down (while still alive) and then dismembered and disembowelled.

Richard Simpson, priest, 1588; blessed 1987
Peter Snow, priest, 1598; blessed 1987
Robert Southwell, Jesuit priest, 1595; saint 1970
William Spenser, priest, 1589; blessed 1987
Thomas Sprott, priest, 1600; blessed 1987
James Stonnes, priest, 1585
John Story, Chancellor to Bishop Bonner, 1571
Edward Stransham, priest, 1586
Robert Sutton, priest, 1587; blessed 1987
Edmund Sykes, priest, 1587; blessed 1987
John Talbot, layman, 1600; blessed 1987
Hugh Taylor, priest, 1585; blessed 1987
Gabriel Thimelby, priest, 1587
Richard Thirkeld, priest, 1583
James Thompson, priest, York, 1582
John Thompson, Jesuit
William Thomson, priest, 1586; blessed 1987
Robert Thorpe, priest, 1591; blessed 1987
Edward Thwing, priest, 1600; blessed 1987
Lawrence Vaux, priest, 1585
Thomas Watkinson, layman, 1591; blessed 1987
Roger Wakeman, priest, 1584
Sir Edward Waldegrave, 1561
Henry Walpole, Jesuit priest, 1595; saint 1970; he had been present at the execution of Edward Campion, and his clothes were sprinkled with Campion's blood at the execution.[3] After his witness, Walpole himself then gave up his law practice and followed in Campion's footsteps. He was later executed at York in 1595.

Edward Waterson, priest, 1593
Margaret Ward, laywoman, 1588; saint 1970, was hanged at Tynburn for helping a priest to escape from prison.
William Way (alias May or Flower), priest, 1588
Henry Webley, layman, 1588; blessed 1987
Swithin Wells, layman, 1591, saint 1970
Richard Weston, Jesuit
Christopher Wharton, priest, 1600; blessed 1987
Eustace White, priest, 1591; saint 1970
Robert Wilcox, priest, 1588
Richard Williams, priest, 1592
Thomas Wood, priest, 1588
John Woodcock, Franciscan, 1646
Nicholas Woodfen, priest, 1586; blessed 1987
Richard Yaxley, priest, 1589; blessed 1987
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch 1601 – 1680

Placid Aldham (Adelham), Benedictine, 1679
William Allison, priest, 1681
John Almond, priest, 1612; saint 1970
Edmund Arrowsmith, Jesuit priest, 1628; saint 1970
Ralph Ashley, Jesuit priest, 1606
William Atkins, Jesuit, 1681
Nicholas Atkinson, priest, 1610
Thomas Atkinson, priest, 1616; blessed 1987
Edward Bamber, priest, 1646; blessed 1987
Mark Barkworth, Benedictine, 1601
Ambrose Edward Barlow, Benedictine priest, 1641; saint 1970
Thomas Bedingfeld, Jesuit, 1678
Arthur Bell, Franciscan priest, 1643; blessed 1987
William Bentney (alias Bennet), Jesuit, 1692
Richard Birkett, priest, 1680
Thomas Blount, priest, 1647
Richard Bradley, Jesuit, 1645
Matthew Brazier (alias Grimes), Jesuit, 1650
James Brown, Benedictine, 1645
Thomas Bullaker, Franciscan priest, 1642; blessed 1987
Roger Cadwallador, priest, 1610; blessed 1987
Edmund Cannon, priest, 1651
Brian Cansfield, Jesuit, 1643
Edmund Catheriok, priest, 1642
Walter Coleman, Franciscan, 1645
Benedict Constable, Benedictine, 1683
Ralph Corbie, Jesuit, 1644
Robert Cox, Benedictine, 1650
Christopher Dixon, Augustinian, 1616
Robert Drury, priest, 1607; blessed 1987
James Duckett, layman, 1601; beatified 1929
John Duckett, priest, 1644
Thomas Dyer, Benedictine, c.1618-1630
Robert Edmonds, Benedictine, 1615
Philip Evans, Jesuit priest, 1679; saint 1970
John Fenwick, Jesuit priest, 1679
Roger Filcock, priest, 1601; blessed 1987
Matthew Flathers, priest, 1608; blessed 1987
Thomas Foster (Forster), Jesuit, 1648
Andrew Fryer (alias Herne or Richmond), priest, 1651
Henry Garnet, Jesuit, 1606
Thomas Garnet, Jesuit priest, 1608; saint 1970
John Gavan, Jesuit priest, 1679
John Gerard (Jesuit), priest, Jesuit, 1637
George Gervase, Benedictine, 1608
John Goodman (Jesuit), priest, 1645
Hugh Green, priest, 1642
Robert Grissold, layman, 1604; blessed 1987
William Harcourt, Jesuit, 1679
James Harrison, priest, 1602
Henry Heath, Franciscan priest, 1643; blessed 1987
Ildephonse Hesketh (alias William Hanson), Benedictine, 1644
Thomas Holland, priest, 1642
Thurstan Hunt, priest, 1601; blessed 1987
William Ireland, Jesuit priest, 1679
Thomas Jennison, Jesuit, 1679
John Kemble, priest, 1679; saint 1970
David Joseph Kemys (Kemeys), monk, 1680
Richard Lacey, Jesuit, 1680
Francis Levison, Franciscan, 1679
David Lewis, Jesuit priest, 1679; saint 1970
Anne Line, laywoman, 1601; saint 1970, an aged and infirm widow was first flogged and then hanged at Tynburn for having entertained a priest.
John Lloyd, priest, 1679; saint 1970
William Lloyd, priest, 1679
John Lockwood, priest, 1642
Laurence Mabbs, Benedictine, 1641
Charles Mahoney (alias Meehan), Franciscan priest, 1679; blessed 1987
Thomas Maxfield, priest, 1616
Edward Mico, Jesuit, 1678
Robert Middleton, priest, 1601; blessed 1987
William Middleton (alias Heathcote), Benedictine, 1644
Thomas Molineux, Jesuit, 1681
Edward Morgan, priest, 1642
Henry Morse, Jesuit priest, 1645; saint 1970
George Napper, priest, Oxford, 1610, blessed 1929
Francis Nevil, Jesuit, 1679
Richard Newport, priest, 1612
Nicholas Owen, Jesuit lay-brother, 1606; saint 1970
Francis Page, Jesuit, 1602
Placid Peto, Benedictine, 1642–1643
John Pibush, priest, 1601
Thomas Pickering, Benedictine, 1679
William Plessington, priest, 1679; saint 1970
Nicholas Postgate, priest, 1679; blessed 1987
Philip Powel, Benedictine, 1646
Thomas Preston (alias Roger Widdrington), Benedictine, 1640
Francis Quashet, priest, 1642
Thomas Reynolds (alias Green), priest, 1642
William Richardson, priest, 1603
John Roberts, Benedictine priest, 1610; saint 1970
Alban Bartholomew Roe, Benedictine priest, 1642; saint 1970
William Scot (Maurus Scott) 1612
Thomas Somers, priest, 1610
William Southerne, priest, 1618; blessed 1987
Saint John Southworth, priest, 1654; saint 1970
John Sugar, priest, 1604; blessed 1987
John Thulis, priest, 1616; blessed 1987
Thomas Thwing, priest, 1679
Thomas Tichborne, priest, 1602
Cuthbert Tunstall, priest, 1616
Thomas Tunstall, priest, 1616
Anthony Turner, Jesuit, 1679
Edward Turner, Jesuit, 1681
John Wall, Franciscan priest, 1679; saint 1970
William Ward, Saint, priest, 1641
Robert Watkinson, priest, 1602
Thomas Whitaker, priest, 1646; blessed 1987
Thomas Whitbread, Jesuit, 1679
Edward Wilkes, priest, 1642
John Woodcock, Franciscan priest, 1646; blessed 1987
Thomas Woodhouse, priest, 1572
Roger Wrenno, layman, 1616; blessed 1987
Peter Wright, Jesuit, 1651
[edit] No precise date of martyrdom availableRichard Adams, priest
Thomas Belser, priest
William Bannersley, priest
Humphrey Browne, Jesuit
George ab Alba Rose, Augustinian
James Gerard, priest
John Hudd, Jesuit
Thomas Moyne
John Pearson, priest
John Penketh, Jesuit
Cuthbert Prescott, Jesuit
Ignatius Price, Jesuit
Charles Pritchard, Jesuit
Thomas Ridall, priest
John Rivers (alias Austen Abbot), priest
Francis Simeon, Jesuit
James Swarbrick, priest
Charles Thursley, Jesuit
Thomas Vaughan, priest
John Young, priest
Boniface Wilford, Benedictine
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "Murdering 70 of the original bishops by burning them alive in Bangor Wales" and "Satanic rites right up to the present day, and missing children are presented in blood sacrifice"

Crazy!

You should really do some research BEFORE publicly declaring things...

EXODUS 20:16 YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST YOUR NEIGHBOR.

DEUTERONOMY 5:20 NEITHER SHALL YOU BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST YOUR NEIGHBOR.

SLANDER
Detraction. Essentially slander is verbal defamation of a person's character, although it may be either spoken or written. It also implies suffering or positive harm done to the victim of slander. In popular language calumny is a form of slander. (Etym. Latin scandalum, stumbling block, offense.)

CALUMNY
Injuring another person's good name by lying. It is doubly sinful, in unjustly depriving another of his good name and in telling an untruth. Since calumny violates justice, it involves the duty of making reparation for the foreseen injury inflicted. Hence the calumniator must try, not only to repair the harm done to another's good name, but also to make up for any foreseen temporal loss that resulted from the calumny, for example, loss of employment or customers. (Etym. Latin calumnia, a false accusation, malicious charge; from calvi, to deceive.)
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch You labelling my historic facts as crazy nonsense and as hatred is stupid.
Rebecca Stott has just finished a book on her childhood and her father . Their family left the Exclusive Brethren about 50 years ago but the complete story of the Exclusive Brethren is like the beginning of the Catholic cult. Except they put Catholics in the shade as to practice.
They got labelled Exclusive about the time their leader after several generations started demanding incredibly stringent obedience to scriptures like
Paul writing
Have no fellowship with unbelievers, in fact don’t eat with such.
They left all professional unions
Many family members ate in separate rooms.
They used to come to our piano shop, and if it was lunchtime they would refuse to eat with us, and we were all Christians.
The piano trade used to be full of Brethren because they like Amish had a problem with all modern computing jobs.

But similar to your Popes and their devilish practices and those of the Black Pope to whom the Pope has to submit,
JOHN TAYLOR started taking wives from under the husbands noses and claiming it was the Holy Spirit.

Now were people filled with crazy notions and hatred? Some were I guess. But what it did mean is people left in their droves and Brethren is now divided into many many streams. The same would have occurred in Catholicism but the steely last claim to legitimacy is that it is the original church so sin is buried and like last months fiasco, a media blackout, so nobody at any time gets to realise the dreadful nature of what is going on.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Bearing false witness I think you will find is calling Madame Guyon a heretic and burning her.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch https://youtu.be/9gzfee6sn7I
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YOUTUBE.COM
Can the Genocide be Stopped? with Kevin Annett 5July2018
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Again...I have found no evidence that Madame Guyon was burned...did you just make that up?
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Annett's video starts with a flying saucer...any questions...???

🤣🤣🤣
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch 2 minutes

https://youtu.be/_hFjvHPrfrU
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YOUTUBE.COM
Catholics Come Home
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Well JOHN, when you do your job and actually speak to people who have very real proof then they won’t have to air on stations which promote off the track things.
Truth follows a curve
National Enquirer
Internet Conspiracy stations
Satellite ( doctored truth) conspiracy and history channels
Channel 5
The Guardian
Mainstream news
The Catholic Church

The last to know ,the last to care
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch While I certainly know it is very True that there have been Catholics in the past 20 centuries that have done sinful things, including some Popes...things that if they died without personal repentance of those sins could place their own Salvation in grave danger...I do not attribute individual behavior or the behavior of some to the preaching and teaching of the One True Church.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch I'm 54 years old, I've been investigating and defending the One Bride of Christ since the mid-1990s, I've read and heard all kinds of True and CRAZY accusation you can imagine...so please...continue.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch https://www.indy100.com/.../vatican-alien-conspiracy...
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INDY100.COM
People think the Vatican secretly knows about aliens because…
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch You obviously are quite fixated on aliens
Or at least they provide what you think is a get out of jail card.....
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Sadly neither the Anglican nor the Catholic reports of late have been conspiracy theory, but very much police fact.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Just pointing out the obvious...we're suppose to be careful of fake news media...EXCEPT when it comes to the One True Church.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch How's that John? The Catholics own the media. Every Hollywood film has to show the true Church because otherwise they get sacked. So that's how we know by their fruit they aren't the true Church. The Catholics like the Jews versus the first Church are really into beating people up. It's a kind of give away.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch 12 minutes

https://youtu.be/3T4-2ZXRl0Y
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YOUTUBE.COM
Bishop Barron on The Last Acceptable Prejudice
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch I like him. He is very like I was 30 years ago.
He is just not aware of all the facts.

Listen if you are a Shriner or a Mormon you speak in exactly the same way about your organisation.

Ask any charismatic church member they will speak in similar glowing terms.

Simon Peter was convinced likewise that the thing he was in was the right one....

But we know now from the Bible
His imagined idea of what Jesus was on about..

The regaining of government to Israel

And what Jesus was actually saying were two completely different things.

“ I shall never betray you Jesus”

“ Ratzinger or Bergoglio would never do things like that”

Sorry, I have heard 10-20 people now saying that they are doing those things.

Who do I believe? A person stuck inside a movement who only gets to hear media things but mostly good things within their organisation....

Or those who have had narrow escapes?
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Ed Schnoebelen is excellent on Shriners
Witchcraft
Mormonism…See more
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch I was internet ready by 2012

Here’s how…See more
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Sorry...nonsensical ramblings...???
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch The CHURCH is called “CATHOLIC”

"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the CHURCH without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the CATHOLIC CHURCH." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

"[A]ll the people wondered that there should be such a difference between the unbelievers and the elect, of whom this most admirable Polycarp was one, having in our own times been an apostolic and prophetic teacher, and bishop of the CATHOLIC CHURCH which is in Smyrna. For every word that went out of his mouth either has been or shall yet be accomplished." Martyrdom of Polycarp, 16:2 (A.D. 155).

“…to be in honour however with the CATHOLIC CHURCH for the ordering of ecclesiastical discipline...one to the Laodicenes, another to the Alexandrians, both forged in Paul's name to suit the heresy of Marcion, and several others, which cannot be received into the CATHOLIC CHURCH; for it is not fitting that gall be mixed with honey. The Epistle of Jude no doubt, and the couple bearing the name of John, are accepted by the CATHOLIC CHURCH...But of Arsinous, called also Valentinus, or of Militiades we receive nothing at all.” The fragment of Muratori (A.D. 177).

"[N]or does it consist in this, that he should again falsely imagine, as being above this [fancied being], a Pleroma at one time supposed to contain thirty, and at another time an innumerable tribe of Aeons, as these teachers who are destitute of truly divine wisdom maintain; while the CATHOLIC CHURCH possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1:10,3 (A.D. 180).

“For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago,--in the reign of Antoninus for the most part,--and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, in the CHURCH of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled.” Tertullian, On the Prescription Against Heretics, 22,30 (A.D. 200).

”Whence you ought to know that the bishop is in the CHURCH, and the CHURCH in the bishop; and if anyone be not with the bishop, that he is not in the CHURCH, and that those flatter themselves in vain who creep in, not having peace with God's priests, and think that they communicate secretly with some; while the CHURCH, which is CATHOLIC and one, is not cut nor divided, but is indeed connected and bound together by the cement of priests who cohere with one another.” Cyprian, To Florentius, Epistle 66/67 (A.D. 254).

“But for those who say, There was when He was not, and, Before being born He was not, and that He came into existence out of nothing, or who assert that the Son of God is of a different hypostasis or substance...these the CATHOLIC and apostolic CHURCH anathematizes.” Creed of Nicea (A.D. 325).

"Concerning those who call themselves Cathari, if they come over to the CATHOLIC and Apostolic CHURCH, the great and holy Synod decrees that they who are ordained shall continue as they are in the clergy. But it is before all things necessary that they should profess in writing that they will observe and follow the dogmas of the CATHOLIC and Apostolic CHURCH; in particular that they will communicate with persons who have been twice married, and with those who having lapsed in persecution have had a period [of penance] laid upon them, and a time [of restoration] fixed so that in all things they will follow the dogmas of the CATHOLIC CHURCH..." Council of Nicaea I (A.D. 325).

“Concerning this Holy CATHOLIC CHURCH Paul writes to Timothy, 'That thou mayest know haw thou oughtest to behave thyself in the House of God, which is the CHURCH of the Living God, the pillar and ground of the truth'” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures,18:25(A.D. 350).

"[T]he Article, In one Holy CATHOLIC CHURCH,' on which, though one might say many things, we will speak but briefly. It is called CATHOLIC then because it extends over all the world, from one end of the earth to the other; and because it teaches universally and completely one and all the doctrines which ought to come to men's knowledge, concerning things both visible and invisible, heavenly and earthly… for this cause the Faith has securely delivered to thee now the Article, And in one Holy CATHOLIC CHURCH;' that thou mayest avoid their wretched meetings, and ever abide with the Holy CHURCH CATHOLIC in which thou wast regenerated. And if ever thou art sojourning in cities, inquire not simply where the Lord's House is (for the other sects of the profane also attempt to call their own dens houses of the Lord), nor merely where the CHURCH is, but where is the CATHOLIC CHURCH. For this is the peculiar name of this Holy CHURCH, the mother of us all, which is the spouse of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-begotten Son of God.” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 18:23,26 (A.D. 350).

"I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy CATHOLIC CHURCH, the communion of saints, the remission of sins, the resurrection of the flesh, and eternal life. Amen." Apostles Creed (A.D. 360).
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Well thanks for all the Catholic teaching but if it served once temporarily great, but long term it is ofcourse Satanic as Catholic history has long proved.
Murders committed in Bishoos and Popes names.

The true church of God has proliferation’s of bishops / overseers
And loads of other gifts.
But the greatest of
all us the single eye to be able to see what God is doing and to be able to flow with the Melchizedek Order.
Thankfully the carnal infrastructure of the Catholic Church is passing and breaking down as the real becomes ever more visible.

The idea of one bishop in a geography is both ridiculous and causes egregious harm
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Jeremiah Johnson and passed on by John Fina Livingstone

***…See more
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch "Return/Lion/wrath"

The almost 2,000 year old Catholic Church has always always preached, taught and wrote about this fact.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch "I will establish My government on earth"

Jesus Christ already has done that!…See more
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch This is just Protestant dispensational fraud, nonsense. Jeremiah Johnson is a false teacher.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch No John he isn’t. It’s that you treat the Bible as the Muslims treat the Koran and actually you haven’t a clue what the Holy Spirit is saying today in 2018. You think you can ride on the coat tails of some apostles, when these apostles were very clear with us.
Those who follow the Spirit these are the sons of God.
Day to day pours forth speech. I have no idea how you are wasting your days, but since we have so short a time to live I would firmly recommend listening to that speech whose words are not heard.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch The Bible is a Catholic Book...so...

Jesus Christ (God) never instructed His followers to go and write the New Testament and add it to the Old, His almost 2,000 year old Catholic Church did that.

Various Catholic Bishops developed lists of inspired books that became the New Testament:

• Mileto, Bishop of Sardis, c. AD 175

• St. Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons, AD 185

• Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea, c. AD 325

• Pope Damasus in 382 AD prompted by the Council of Rome, wrote a decree listing the 73 Old and New Testament books of the Bible.

• At the Council of Hippo, in North Africa, 393 AD the same 73 Books of the Old and New Testament were approved or canonized.

• Again at the Council of Carthage, (North Africa) 397 AD approved the same 73 books of sacred scripture that the Catholic Church uses today.

• Finally, in 405 AD Pope St. Innocent I approved the same 73 books of the canon and closed the canon of the Bible.

Up until the close of the canon there was much debate among faithful Catholics. That is probably why it took four official decisions to close the canon: Two Councils and Two Papal decisions.

From AD 405 until 1529, this was the Bible for the whole Christian world, the inspired, inerrant Word of God. In 1529, Martin Luther removed seven books of the OT and added the word "alone" in his German translation of Romans 3:28. He also tried to remove several books from the New Testament...unsuccessfully.

Note: Here is the text of Pope Damasus' Decree if you wish to read it.

The Decree of Pope St. Damasus I, Council of Rome. 382 AD.....

ST. DAMASUS I, POPE, THE DECREE OF DAMASUS:

It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun. The list of the Old Testament begins: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book: Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Jesus Nave, one book; of Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; of Kings, four books; Paralipomenon, two books; One Hundred and Fifty Psalms, one book; of Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book; Ecclesiastes, one book; Canticle of Canticles, one book; likewise, Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus (Sirach), one book; Likewise, the list of the Prophets: Isaiah, one book; Jeremias, one book; along with Cinoth, that is, his Lamentations; Ezechiel, one book; Daniel, one book; Osee, one book; Amos, one book; Micheas, one book; Joel, one book; Abdias, one book; Jonas, one book; Nahum, one book; Habacuc, one book; Sophonias, one book; Aggeus, one book; Zacharias, one book; Malachias, one book. Likewise, the list of histories: Job, one book; Tobias, one book; Esdras, two books; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; of Maccabees, two books. Likewise, the list of the Scriptures of the New and Eternal Testament, which the holy and Catholic Church receives: of the Gospels, one book according to Matthew, one book according to Mark, one book according to Luke, one book according to John. The Epistles of the Apostle Paul, fourteen in number: one to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, one to the Ephesians, two to the Thessalonians, one to the Galatians, one to the Philippians, one to the Colossians, two to Timothy, one to Titus one to Philemon, one to the Hebrews. Likewise, one book of the Apocalypse of John. And the Acts of the Apostles, one book. Likewise, the canonical Epistles, seven in number: of the Apostle Peter, two Epistles; of the Apostle James, one Epistle; of the Apostle John, one Epistle; of the other John, a Presbyter, two Epistles; of the Apostle Jude the Zealot, one Epistle. Thus concludes the canon of the New Testament. Likewise it is decreed: After the announcement of all of these prophetic and evangelic or as well as apostolic writings which we have listed above as Scriptures, on which, by the grace of God, the Catholic Church is founded, we have considered that it ought to be announced that although all the Catholic Churches spread abroad through the world comprise but one bridal chamber of Christ, nevertheless, the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other Churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Even Martin Luther knew this much:

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther, Commentary on St. John
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Thus, by the light of the Spirit of truth, these successors can in their preaching preserve this word of God faithfully, explain it, and make it more widely known. Consequently it is not from sacred Scripture alone that the Church draws her certainty about everything which has been revealed. Therefore both sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same devotion and reverence.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Apart from when the Spirit slashes it in two because it’s now irrelevant.
We see this throughout the gospels and it continues to this day as God prepares the mature Man in the earth.
There’s a time when nursery rattles are put aside.
There’s a time when teen posters are put aside.
There’s a time when a mature man and a mature woman give themselves to each other.
If the Catholic Church don’t want to be a part of that, preferring their rattles and their pinup posters, well leave them to it. You can’t drag s horse to water.
But the Wise virgins are ready to operate.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch On my Timeline

M Scott Peck - Different Drum and DAvid TOMLINSON , former “ apostle” of many many secondlevel house churches become now city churches across North England
and writer of Post Evangelical
Are both speaking about
The psychological growth that leads to socialisation.... then the further growth that cuts loose again to find the inner person.

As Jesus says you cannot say lo here lo there is the Kingdom.
Generally speaking but not exclusively episcopal church also covers the socialisation stage. But many of my charismatic friends went back to episcopal church to find a looser framework in which to internalise their own truth.

If as kids we start as me centric, then position two TOMLINSON and Peck say is socialisation, realising you are part of planet earth and are a functioning unit in that part.

But just remaining automatons is not the answer. You have to find your own truth and that is the only workable truth.
All life is consciousness.

Where it gets more complicated is we only see what we believe for.
So if our truth is never to believe for much, but live entirely from our senses telling us what is.....
That’s why our truth remains our life
And Michael O Leary of Ryanair
And RICHARD Branson of Virgin
Live their kind of lives.
They choose to listen and act on hunches .

So we cannot say
An episcopalian must be a socialisation stage person, because Mother Teresa definitely wasn’t...she rattled people’s cages and set new world standards of dignity caring for the dying... but was episcopalian or Catholic all her life.

Having said that, in my conversations withJohn Reynolds, who is so episcopalian he possibly phones up his bishop in order to brush his teeth, I really think it is unfair to expect him to understand
How church works once everybody is born again and baptised in the Spirit , what I term secondlevel.....
And to then be vexing him with thirdlevel principles... well it’s not going to work.

If even a pastor is living breathing and working in the socialisation framework....

Then its outer courts stuff
God is out there
The speaker go between is out there also
And nobody else does much.... bevouse in the outer courts framework only the “ priest type”, the “ synagogue rabbi type” does anything.

Everybody being baptised in the Spirit is already quite a shake up. Like Lakeland Revival in 2008 everybody is perfectly able to seek God for themselves.

Thirdlevel church is even more radical still.
It means there are a whole lot of you able to do Evan Roberts job in the Welsh revival.
Leading by not leading.
Leading With your face to the floor to “ Key in “ the Melchizedek Order dynamic

You can’t explain this to someone in the episcopalian settings.
For them everything is in pyramids.
There is one bishop per area and everybody submits through a long line to him.

As the New Covenant grips our hearts we all know God from the least to the greatest.
But this must be real to work.

At the moment even in charismatic churches people are nowhere near fine tuned enough.
This is why the Bible phrase for maturity is so accurate
Who... by virtue of training their senses according to righteousness can discern “ the spirit of good behind something from the spirit of evil behind something.

Acts 2 had 12 apostles all working together in the Melchizedek Order .

If people are not born again
If people are not baptised in the Spirit
How can they possibly understand anything outside the Catholic or Anglican frameworks.
Indeed it isn’t even relevant. If you are still in “ socialisation”
Why would you ever be thinking about going into the
Freefall of faith
The suck it and see Faith stage
The stage where you start demanding that the same Bible things happen today!!!!

Bill Johnson reached this stage 25 years ago and set his heart in having a church where miracles of healing happen..... and what you seek finds you!!!!

But most Catholics and Anglicans are just going to be upset if that ever started to happen to them. They have chosen the leftbrain paradigm in which they want to live.
Jesus actually had to put these guys out of the room when he prayed for people, because their own believing was affecting His outcomes.

Please understand the Church is One but only in Jesus Christ.
If 70% of your life is still lived in the Genesis 3 independent self delusion.... you are still 70% in the realm describing works of the flesh
Party spirit, schisms
You and people like you will never be in unity, or only in the brief 30% of your life lived in Jesus....WHO IS UNITY.

Catholics declare they are the one true original church
And they declare that they are one

But the Word says only those who follow the Spirit of God are sons of God
And only Living from Unity Himself, Jesus Christ ,will the church ever be one.

Certainly just declaring we are One
And we are the original church founded upon the apostles and prophets is as useless
As Jews saying they were founded upon Abraham.
If they missed Jesus, the Catholic Church has no chance, nor even does the evangelical and charismatic church if they for a minute rest on their laurels .
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "Certainly just declaring we are One
And we are the original church founded upon the apostles and prophets is as useless"

Not if one can prove it!
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "the Catholic Church has no chance, nor even does the evangelical and charismatic church if they for a minute rest on their laurels"

Same old song...Chris Welch has it right...everyone else unless YOU agree they are right...has it wrong.

Sacred Scripture warns the individual to avoid "private interpretation" (2 Peter 1:20-21) because it may lead to his "own destruction" (2 Peter 3:15-17). For it is not our personal interpretation of the Bible that leads to truth (Proverbs 3:5-6), but the Holy Spirit guiding THE CHURCH (John 16:13), the "pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Timothy 3:15), who then reveals it to the world (Ephesians 3:10).
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You mentioned: "Catholic or Anglican frameworks."

Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ in Jerusalem in A.D. 33

Anglicanism started by King Henry VIII in England in A.D. 1534
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch "Melchizedek, king of Salem, brought out bread and wine, and being a priest of God Most High, he blessed Abram" (Genesis 14:18).

Melchizedek is referred to only twice in the Old Testament, but his meaning should not be overlooked. Paul writes extensively about him in chapter seven of his letter to the Hebrews. He compares Melchizedek to Christ and shows that Christ is a non-Levitical priest of the same sort as Melchizedek, and thus not in the order of Aaron. Thus, the law of the Levitical priesthood does not lead to salvation. As Melchizedek went out to bless Abram he brought bread and wine instead of a bull or a lamb. Melchizedek was a priest prefiguring the Christ to come, and the bread and the wine prefigures the Eucharist.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Melchizedek

Foreshadowing of the Eucharistic Sacrifice

Gen. 14:18 – this is the first time that the word “priest” is used in Old Testament. Melchizedek is both a priest and a king and he offers a bread and wine sacrifice to God.

Psalm 76:2 – Melchizedek is the king of Salem. Salem is the future Jeru-salem where Jesus, the eternal priest and king, established his new Kingdom and the Eucharistic sacrifice which He offered under the appearance of bread and wine.

Psalm 110:4 – this is the prophecy that Jesus will be the eternal priest and king in the same manner as this mysterious priest Melchizedek. This prophecy requires us to look for an eternal bread and wine sacrifice in the future. This prophecy is fulfilled only by the Eucharistic sacrifice of the Catholic Church.

Jesus in Glory Perpetually Offers the Father His Sacrifice on Our Behalf

Heb. 5:6,10; 6:20; 7:15,17 – these verses show that Jesus restores the father-son priesthood after Melchizedek. Jesus is the new priest and King of Jerusalem and feeds the new children of Abraham with His body and blood. This means that His eternal sacrifice is offered in the same manner as the bread and wine offered by Melchizedek in Gen. 14:18. But the bread and wine that Jesus offers is different, just as the Passover Lamb of the New Covenant is different. The bread and wine become His body and blood by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit.

Heb. 9:12 – Jesus enters into heaven, the Holy Place, taking His own blood. How can this be? He wasn’t bleeding after the resurrection. This is because He enters into the heavenly sanctuary to mediate the covenant of His body and blood by eternally offering it to the Father. This offering is made present to us in the same manner as Melchizedek’s offering, under the appearance of bread and wine.

Heb. 9:26 – Jesus’ once and for all appearance into heaven to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself shows that Jesus’ presence in heaven and His sacrifice are inseparable. This also shows that “once for all,” which refers to Jesus’ appearance in heaven, means perpetual (it does not, and cannot mean, “over and done with” because Jesus is in heaven for eternity). “Once for all” also refers to Jesus’ suffering and death (Heb. 7:27; 9:12,26;10:10-14). But “once for all” never refers to Jesus’ sacrifice, which is eternally presented to the Father. This sacrifice is the Mal. 1:11 pure offering made present in every place from the rising of the sun to its setting in the Eucharist offered in the same manner as the Melchizedek offering.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "Please understand the Church is One but only in Jesus Christ."

The One True Church on earth IS Jesus Christ extended through space and time until He returns...The One True Church IS the Body of Christ...The One True Church IS the Bride of Christ.

The One True Church is all these things AND almost 2,000 years old.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Let me be clear
The true Church doesn’t have a Pope
The true church doesn’t abuse children sexually or spiritually in a forced baptism
The true church is alive in Christ having His Life
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "The true Church doesn’t have a Pope"

Just the opposite is True!

The ONE TRUE CHURCH has ALWAYS had the Office of the Papacy.

One of the Symbols of unity within the One Church from the beginning is the Papacy, the Bishop of Rome, the Pope, the successors of St. Peter…and there has ALWAYS been a Pope in the Church Jesus Christ established, there has ALWAYS been the Office of the Papacy in the New Covenant.

The office of the Papacy is a visible sign of the unity Jesus Christ (God) established for His Church.

It is an often-forgotten fact, for example, that 33 of the first 34 popes were martyred.

The List of first 150 Popes

1.St. Peter (32-67)
2.St. Linus (67-76)
3.St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
4.St. Clement I (88-97)
5.St. Evaristus (97-105)
6.St. Alexander I (105-115)
7.St. Sixtus I (115-125) Also called Xystus I
8.St. Telesphorus (125-136)
9.St. Hyginus (136-140)
10.St. Pius I (140-155)
11.St. Anicetus (155-166)
12.St. Soter (166-175)
13.St. Eleutherius (175-189)
14.St. Victor I (189-199)
15.St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
16.St. Callistus I (217-22) Callistus and the following three popes were opposed by St. Hippolytus, antipope (217-236)
17.St. Urban I (222-30)
18.St. Pontain (230-35)
19.St. Anterus (235-36)
20.St. Fabian (236-50)
21.St. Cornelius (251-53) Opposed by Novatian, antipope (251)
22.St. Lucius I (253-54)
23.St. Stephen I (254-257)
24.St. Sixtus II (257-258)
25.St. Dionysius (260-268)
26.St. Felix I (269-274)
27.St. Eutychian (275-283)
28.St. Caius (283-296) Also called Gaius
29.St. Marcellinus (296-304)
30.St. Marcellus I (308-309)
31.St. Eusebius (309 or 310)
32.St. Miltiades (311-14)
33.St. Sylvester I (314-35)
34.St. Marcus (336)
35.St. Julius I (337-52)
36.Liberius (352-66) Opposed by Felix II, antipope (355-365)
37.St. Damasus I (366-83) Opposed by Ursicinus, antipope (366-367)
38.St. Siricius (384-99)
39.St. Anastasius I (399-401)
40.St. Innocent I (401-17)
41.St. Zosimus (417-18)
42.St. Boniface I (418-22) Opposed by Eulalius, antipope (418-419)
43.St. Celestine I (422-32)
44.St. Sixtus III (432-40)
45.St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61)
46.St. Hilarius (461-68)
47.St. Simplicius (468-83)
48.St. Felix III (II) (483-92)
49.St. Gelasius I (492-96)
50.Anastasius II (496-98)
51.St. Symmachus (498-514) Opposed by Laurentius, antipope (498-501)
52.St. Hormisdas (514-23)
53.St. John I (523-26)
54.St. Felix IV (III) (526-30)
55.Boniface II (530-32) Opposed by Dioscorus, antipope (530)
56.John II (533-35)
57.St. Agapetus I (535-36) Also called Agapitus I
58.St. Silverius (536-37)
59.Vigilius (537-55)
60.Pelagius I (556-61)
61.John III (561-74)
62.Benedict I (575-79)
63.Pelagius II (579-90)
64.St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604)
65.Sabinian (604-606)
66.Boniface III (607)
67.St. Boniface IV (608-15)
68.St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18)
69.Boniface V (619-25)
70.Honorius I (625-38)
71.Severinus (640)
72.John IV (640-42)
73.Theodore I (642-49)
74.St. Martin I (649-55)
75.St. Eugene I (655-57)
76.St. Vitalian (657-72)
77.Adeodatus (II) (672-76)
78.Donus (676-78)
79.St. Agatho (678-81)
80.St. Leo II (682-83)
81.St. Benedict II (684-85)
82.John V (685-86)
83.Conon (686-87)
84.St. Sergius I (687-701) Opposed by Theodore and Paschal, antipopes (687)
85.John VI (701-05)
86.John VII (705-07)
87.Sisinnius (708)
88.Constantine (708-15)
89.St. Gregory II (715-31)
90.St. Gregory III (731-41)
91.St. Zachary (741-52)
92.Stephen II (752) Because he died before being consecrated, many authoritative lists omit him
93.Stephen III (752-57)
94.St. Paul I (757-67)
95.Stephen IV (767-72) Opposed by Constantine II (767) and Philip (768), antipopes (767)
96.Adrian I (772-95)
97.St. Leo III (795-816)
98.Stephen V (816-17)
99.St. Paschal I (817-24)
100.Eugene II (824-27)
101.Valentine (827)
102.Gregory IV (827-44)
103.Sergius II (844-47) Opposed by John, antipope (855)
104.St. Leo IV (847-55)
105.Benedict III (855-58) Opposed by Anastasius, antipope (855)
106.St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67)
107.Adrian II (867-72)
108.John VIII (872-82)
109.Marinus I (882-84)
110.St. Adrian III (884-85)
111.Stephen VI (885-91)
112.Formosus (891-96)
113.Boniface VI (896)
114.Stephen VII (896-97)
115.Romanus (897)
116.Theodore II (897)
117.John IX (898-900)
118.Benedict IV (900-03)
119.Leo V (903) Opposed by Christopher, antipope (903-904)
120.Sergius III (904-11)
121.Anastasius III (911-13)
122.Lando (913-14)
123.John X (914-28)
124.Leo VI (928)
125.Stephen VIII (929-31)
126.John XI (931-35)
127.Leo VII (936-39)
128.Stephen IX (939-42)
129.Marinus II (942-46)
130.Agapetus II (946-55)
131.John XII (955-63)
132.Leo VIII (963-64)
133.Benedict V (964)
134.John XIII (965-72)
135.Benedict VI (973-74)
136.Benedict VII (974-83) Benedict and John XIV were opposed by Boniface VII, antipope (974; 984-985)
137.John XIV (983-84)
138.John XV (985-96)
139.Gregory V (996-99) Opposed by John XVI, antipope (997-998)
140.Sylvester II (999-1003)
141.John XVII (1003)
142.John XVIII (1003-09)
143.Sergius IV (1009-12)
144.Benedict VIII (1012-24) Opposed by Gregory, antipope (1012)
145.John XIX (1024-32)
146.Benedict IX (1032-45) He appears on this list three separate times, because he was twice deposed and restored
147.Sylvester III (1045) Considered by some to be an antipope
148.Benedict IX (1045)
149.Gregory VI (1045-46)
150.Clement II (1046-47)
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "The true church doesn’t abuse children sexually..."

Agreed!

However sinners can! Jesus Christ PROMISED the gates of HELL would not prevail against His Church...He did NOT promise that HELL would not try.

There has ALWAYS BEEN Controversies (scandals, immorality, sinners) in the almost 2,000 year old ONE TRUE CHURCH…an always will be…just as Sacred Scripture says:

Matt. 13:24-30- scandals have always existed in the Church, just as they have existed outside of the Church. This should not cause us to lose hope in the Church. God's mysterious plan requires the wheat and the weeds to be side by side in the Church until the end of time.

Matt. 13:47-50- God's plan is that the Church (the kingdom of heaven) is a net which catches fish of every kind, good and bad. God revealed this to us so that we will not get discouraged by the sinfulness of the Church’s members.

Matt. 16:18- no matter how sinful its members conduct themselves, Jesus promised that the gates of death will never prevail against the Church.

Matt. 23:2-3- the Jewish people would have always understood the difference between a person's sinfulness and his teaching authority. We see that the sinfulness of the Pharisees does not minimize their teaching authority. They occupy the "cathedra" of Moses.

Matt. 26:70-72; Mark 14:68-70; Luke 22:57; John 18:25-27- Peter denied Christ three times, yet he was chosen to be the leader of the Church, and taught and wrote infallibly.

Mark 14:45- Judas was unfaithful by betraying Jesus. But his apostolic office was preserved and this did not weaken the Church.

Mark 14:50- all of Jesus' apostles were unfaithful by abandoning Him in the garden of Gethsemane, yet they are the foundation of the Church.

John 20:24-25- Thomas the apostle was unfaithful by refusing to believe in Jesus' resurrection, yet he taught infallibly in India.

Rom. 3:3-4- unfaithful members do not nullify the faithfulness of God and the work of the Holy Spirit in the Church.

Eph. 5:25-27- just as Jesus Christ has both a human and a divine nature, the Church, His Bride, is also both human and divine. It is the holy and spotless bride of Christ, with sinful human members.

1 Tim. 5:19- Paul acknowledges Church elders might be unfaithful. The Church, not rebellion and schism, deals with these matters.

2 Tim. 2:13- if we remain faithless, God remains faithful for He cannot deny Himself.

2 Tim. 2:20- a great house has not only gold and silver, but also wood and earthenware, some for noble use, some for ignoble use.

Jer. 24:1-10- God's plan includes both good and bad figs. The good figs will be rewarded, and the bad figs will be discarded.

1 Kings 6,7,8- the Lord commands us to build elaborate places of worship. Some non-Catholics think that this is controversial and the money should be given to the poor, even though no organization does more for the poor of the world that the Catholic Church. We create our churches with beauty because Christ our King lives in the churches in the blessed Eucharist.

Matt. 26:8-9; Mark 14:4-5; John 12:5- negative comments concerning the beauty of the Church are like the disciples complaining about the woman anointing Jesus' head with costly oil. Jesus desires that we honor Him with our best gifts, not for Him, but for us, so that we realize He is God and we are His creatures.

Matt. 26:10-11- Jesus says we have both a duty to honor God and give to the poor - a balanced life of reverence and charity.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "The true church doesn’t abuse children...in a forced baptism"

Baptism confers Grace to a Baby or an Adult.

Infant Baptism

Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 - these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant - Col 2:11-12 - however, baptism is the new "circumcision" for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.

Job 14:1-4 - man that is born of woman is full of trouble and unclean. Baptism is required for all human beings because of our sinful human nature.

Psalm 51:5 - we are conceived in the iniquity of sin. This shows the necessity of baptism from conception.

Matt. 18:2-5 - Jesus says unless we become like children, we cannot enter into heaven. So why would children be excluded from baptism?

Matt 19:14 - Jesus clearly says the kingdom of heaven also belongs to children. There is no age limit on entering the kingdom, and no age limit for being eligible for baptism.

Mark 10:14 - Jesus says to let the children come to Him for the kingdom of God also belongs to them. Jesus says nothing about being too young to come into the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:16 - Jesus says to the crowd, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." But in reference to the same people, Jesus immediately follows with "He who does not believe will be condemned." This demonstrates that one can be baptized and still not be a believer. This disproves the Protestant argument that one must be a believer to be baptized. There is nothing in the Bible about a "believer's baptism."

Luke 18:15 – Jesus says, “Let the children come to me.” The people brought infants to Jesus that he might touch them. This demonstrates that the receipt of grace is not dependent upon the age of reason.

Acts 2:38 - Peter says to the multitude, "Repent and be baptized.." Protestants use this verse to prove one must be a believer (not an infant) to be baptized. But the Greek translation literally says, "If you repent, then each one who is a part of you and yours must each be baptized” (“Metanoesate kai bapistheto hekastos hymon.”) This, contrary to what Protestants argue, actually proves that babies are baptized based on their parents’ faith. This is confirmed in the next verse.

Acts 2:39 - Peter then says baptism is specifically given to children as well as adults. “Those far off” refers to those who were at their “homes” (primarily infants and children). God's covenant family includes children. The word "children" that Peter used comes from the Greek word "teknon" which also includes infants.

Luke 1:59 - this proves that "teknon" includes infants. Here, John as a "teknon" (infant) was circumcised. See also Acts 21:21 which uses “teknon” for eight-day old babies. So baptism is for infants as well as adults.

Acts 10:47-48 - Peter baptized the entire house of Cornelius, which generally included infants and young children. There is not one word in Scripture about baptism being limited to adults.

Acts 16:15 - Paul baptized Lydia and her entire household. The word "household" comes from the Greek word "oikos" which is a household that includes infants and children.

Acts 16:15 - further, Paul baptizes the household based on Lydia's faith, not the faith of the members of the household. This demonstrates that parents can present their children for baptism based on the parents' faith, not the children's faith.

Acts 16:30-33 - it was only the adults who were candidates for baptism that had to profess a belief in Jesus. This is consistent with the Church's practice of instructing catechumens before baptism. But this verse does not support a "believer's baptism" requirement for everyone. See Acts 16:15,33. The earlier one comes to baptism, the better. For those who come to baptism as adults, the Church has always required them to profess their belief in Christ. For babies who come to baptism, the Church has always required the parents to profess the belief in Christ on behalf of the baby. But there is nothing in the Scriptures about a requirement for ALL baptism candidates to profess their own belief in Christ (because the Church has baptized babies for 2,000 years).

Acts 16:33 - Paul baptized the jailer (an adult) and his entire household (which had to include children). Baptism is never limited to adults and those of the age of reason. See also Luke 19:9; John 4:53; Acts 11:14; 1 Cor. 1:16; and 1 Tim. 3:12; Gen. 31:41; 36:6; 41:51; Joshua 24:15; 2 Sam. 7:11, 1 Chron. 10:6 which shows “oikos” generally includes children.

Rom. 5:12 - sin came through Adam and death through sin. Babies' souls are affected by Adam's sin and need baptism just like adult souls.

Rom. 5:15 - the grace of Jesus Christ surpasses that of the Old Covenant. So children can also enter the new Covenant in baptism. From a Jewish perspective, it would have been unthinkable to exclude infants and children from God's Covenant kingdom.

1 Cor. 1:16 - Paul baptized the household ("oikos") of Stephanus. Baptism is not limited to adults.

Eph. 1:1; Col. 1:2 - Paul addresses the "saints" of the Church, and these include the children he addresses in Eph. 6:1 and Col. 3:20. Children become saints of the Church only through baptism.

Eph. 2:3 - we are all by nature children of wrath, in sin, like all mankind. Infants are no exception. See also Psalm 51:5 and Job 14:1-4 which teach us we are conceived in sin and born unclean.

2 Thess. 3:10 - if anyone does not work let him not eat. But this implies that those who are unable to work should still be able to eat. Babies should not starve because they are unable to work, and should also not be denied baptism because they are unable to make a declaration of faith.

Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:3-5 - the faith of those who brought in the paralytic cured the paralytic's sins. This is an example of the forgiveness of sins based on another's faith, just like infant baptism. The infant child is forgiven of sin based on the parents' faith.

Matt. 8:5-13 - the servant is healed based upon the centurion's faith. This is another example of healing based on another's faith. If Jesus can heal us based on someone else’s faith, then He can baptize us based on someone else’s faith as well.

Mark 9:22-25 - Jesus exercises the child's unclean spirit based on the father's faith. This healing is again based on another's faith.

1 Cor. 7:14 – Paul says that children are sanctified by God through the belief of only one of their parents.

Exodus 12:24-28 - the Passover was based on the parent's faith. If they did not kill and eat the lamb, their first-born child died.

Joshua 5:2-7 - God punished Israel because the people had not circumcised their children. This was based on the parent's faith. The parents play a critical role in their child's salvation.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "The true church is alive in Christ having His Life"

Which one???

There are THOUSANDS of them...the VAST majority came into existence in the past 500 years...???
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch I do appreciate the brevity of you last post!!!

👌👍
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Baptism does not and cannot confer grace to a baby.
We dedicate babies because that’s what the Old Testament did.
Dedication is a presentation of the baby to the Lord,
for the adult.
The means of grace for all children is adults, who had better be up for it.

Declaring the new circumcision to be infant baptism is ofcourse Satanic.

The new circumcision is of the heart and can only take place by the Spirit in someone who is desiring to yield.

Infant baptism has the same effect as moving the Table of Shewbread.
Catholics illegally move the Table of Shewbread out into the “ yard”, or outer courts to replace the brazen altar .
Infant baptism moves the Laver outside the House of God into the street.

Satan pulled off these coups with an ignorant people not schooled in the Tabernacle blueprint of the heavenlies. See Hebrews.

They did this to automate the work of God and make it “ easier” and “ improve on Gods idea”.

David did the same by observing how the Gentile tribes moved the Ark of God, but because he had more reverence he dreamed up “ a new, virgin cart”.

Both the Catholic additions and David’s new cart are automations. They come out of the mind of man. But are Satanic.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch I appreciate these are long lumps but this is important.
From my Timeline
————-

Corinthians states over and over, you cannot teach heavenly things if a person does not have the Spirit . They are spiritually perceived.
What does this look like in the Tabernacle?
Our generation is thankful to Watchman Nee who put us on the correct course in books like Normal Christian Life, Normal Christian Church, Release of the Spirit and Sit Walk Stand.

Outer courts religion gives way to the covered areas of the Tabernacle.
In the outer courts humans function in natural sunlight. Natural understanding.
In the Holy Place and the holiest place there is no sunlight.
No sunlight or moonlight.
Everything is illumined by other means.

In the Holy Place by the candlestick.
In the Holiest Place by Gods actual Shekinah.

Evangelicals do not experience the full baptism of the Spirit. So any revelation by the Spirit has to come by prayer and meditating on the Word of God. This is their equivalent of the candlestick, of the illumination of the Spirit after they have become born again at the brazen altar.

This is not “ normal”. What is normal CHRISTIAN life is
Repent
Be baptised
Receive the Holy Spirit

The Holy Spirit is given without measure. It’s not a bit now and a bit later.
You need as much of the Ezekiel 47 River of Life as you can stand, to rip you right out of Genesis 3 Living.

Hebrews 6 talks about all the New Testament equivalents of the Laver
Baptisms plural
Eternal judgment
As first things
The milk of the Word.

Baptists teach baptism rightly in relation to past sin and being born again and cleansed.
Some (Baptists)now preach the baptism in the Spirit.
But the baptism Jesus underwent did not reference sin but was to fulfil all righteousness.

That means He did something to fulfil or make something happen?
All righteousness.
The brazen altar now in the New Covenant ejects the old sin indweller, and the Laver is our participation. But more than “ Johns baptism”, we come up again like Jesus in the side of all righteousness.
Jesus Himself now lives in us.
The human Levitical priesthood that was at best a shadow, is now totally fulfilled in this man from Judah, Jesus... who doesn’t even refer to the Levitical tribe.
The church is about shedding all continued reference to the Levitical and knowing Jesus actual imperishable life within as it says in Hebrews.

WE ARE PRIESTS, but not as Levites know it.
We go through the same stages:
The washing at the Laver now baptism
The anointing of oil now the baptism of the Spirit

And we enter a totally new form of “ religion”, that isn’t really.
Religion pertains to outer courts, to “ separation” to God out there, to knowing God only in a veiled way , enshrouded by our own natural understanding.

Now we are baptised in the Spirit we operate straightaway as priests in the areas illumined only by the candlestick and the Shekinah glory if the Spirit of God.

Gods norm is this type of Christianity.
Catholicism
Anglicanism
Baptist
Brethren
Presbyterian
United reformed
Unitarian
None of this is normal

Normal Christianity always was like Acts.
Believers becoming priests and learning to function in the Spirit, as pictorially described in the covered areas of the Tabernacle.
1 Corinthians 12 says....
And it was Greek former pagans and spiritists right? Well instead of being moved by any which spirit, now we give ourselves over to the One Holy Spirit that exalts Jesus as Lord and as we gather together
He directs the gathering

This is NORMAL CHRISTIAN WORSHIP
someone brings a song
Or sing a new song unto the Lord
Singing in our language or tongues given by the Spirit
Bringing miraculous gifts
A teaching
Interceding in prayer for issues
Praying for governments
Receiving the Word from whoever has one laid on their heart.... usually but not exclusively an elder or more mature one.
The Table of Shewbread in the Spirit is Word BROUGHT by the Spirit
But also breaking bread together in remembrance of Christ’s victory.

Catholics have wheeled out the Table of Shewbread outside the realm of the Spirit into the courtyard and exchanged the brazen altar for the Table of Shewbread.
They have wheeled out the Laver or baptism outside Gods House in the street, and made it infant baptism.
Both are horrific abominations which the devil has inspired to destroy the work of God.

Our generation were called to raise up the former devastations and rebuild the foundations, and Gates of Jerusalem and raise up a highway of holiness in the desert for a multitude to walk on.

While Morris Cerullo was laughing at us because we had no children, at least nowhere near the evangelistic fruit that he had....

She who had not born shall bring forth many sons.

Instead we have enlarged the place of our tents and strengthened our tent pegs, driving them ever deeper.

Like Noah we have been building a three storey boat of salvation 1 John 2
And not the one or two storey craft the other churches have.
We are grateful to Nee’s book Sit Walk Stand Which is the connection made between the threefold foundation of Abraham Isaac and Jacob and the book of Ephesians.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch There is No office of Papacy

The verse upon this Rock refers to the
Rock of revelation that God has come in the flesh. You can’t perceive this the Spirit has to show it. And Jesus got excited.

This is the foundation which Iifts us out of the dreadful delusion of Genesis 3 independent.... so-called.... Living.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Timeline

There is a breed of person that dislikes friction and just wants people to get on.…See more
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Peter explained what happens at baptism when he said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). But he did not restrict this teaching to adults. He added, "For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him" (2:39). We also read: "Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16). These commands are universal, not restricted to adults. Further, these commands make clear the necessary connection between baptism and salvation, a connection explicitly stated in 1 Peter 3:21: "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Fundamentalists say this event does not apply to young children or infants since it implies the children to which Christ was referring were able to approach him on their own. (Older translations have, "Suffer the little children to come unto me," which seems to suggest they could do so under their own power.) Fundamentalists conclude the passage refers only to children old enough to walk, and, presumably, capable of sinning. But the text in Luke 18:15 says, "Now they were bringing even infants to him" (Greek, Prosepheron de auto kai ta brepha). The Greek word brepha means "infants"—children who are quite unable to approach Christ on their own and who could not possibly make a conscious decision to "accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior." And that is precisely the problem. Fundamentalists refuse to permit the baptism of infants and young children, because they are not yet capable of making such a conscious act. But notice what Jesus said: "to such as these [referring to the infants and children who had been brought to him by their mothers] belongs the kingdom of heaven." The Lord did not require them to make a conscious decision. He says that they are precisely the kind of people who can come to him and receive the kingdom. So on what basis, Fundamentalists should be asked, can infants and young children be excluded from the sacrament of baptism? If Jesus said "let them come unto me," who are we to say "no," and withhold baptism from them?
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch In Place of Circumcision

Furthermore, Paul notes that baptism has replaced circumcision (Col. 2:11–12). In that passage, he refers to baptism as "the circumcision of Christ" and "the circumcision made without hands." Of course, usually only infants were circumcised under the Old Law; circumcision of adults was rare, since there were few converts to Judaism. If Paul meant to exclude infants, he would not have chosen circumcision as a parallel for baptism.

This comparison between who could receive baptism and circumcision is an appropriate one. In the Old Testament, if a man wanted to become a Jew, he had to believe in the God of Israel and be circumcised. In the New Testament, if one wants to become a Christian, one must believe in God and Jesus and be baptized. In the Old Testament, those born into Jewish households could be circumcised in anticipation of the Jewish faith in which they would be raised. Thus in the New Testament, those born in Christian households can be baptized in anticipation of the Christian faith in which they will be raised. The pattern is the same: If one is an adult, one must have faith before receiving the rite of membership; if one is a child too young to have faith, one may be given the rite of membership in the knowledge that one will be raised in the faith. This is the basis of Paul’s reference to baptism as "the circumcision of Christ"—that is, the Christian equivalent of circumcision.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Born Again in Water Baptism

John 1:32 - when Jesus was baptized, He was baptized in the water and the Spirit, which descended upon Him in the form of a dove. The Holy Spirit and water are required for baptism. Also, Jesus’ baptism was not the Christian baptism He later instituted. Jesus’ baptism was instead a royal anointing of the Son of David (Jesus) conferred by a Levite (John the Baptist) to reveal Christ to Israel, as it was foreshadowed in 1 Kings 1:39 when the Son of David (Solomon) was anointed by the Levitical priest Zadok. See John 1:31; cf. Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:9; Luke 3:21.

John 3:3,5 - Jesus says, "Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." When Jesus said "water and the Spirit," He was referring to baptism (which requires the use of water, and the work of the Spirit).

John 3:22 - after teaching on baptism, John says Jesus and the disciples did what? They went into Judea where the disciples baptized. Jesus' teaching about being reborn by water and the Spirit is in the context of baptism.

John 4:1 - here is another reference to baptism which naturally flows from Jesus' baptismal teaching in John 3:3-5.

Acts 8:36 – the eunuch recognizes the necessity of water for his baptism. Water and baptism are never separated in the Scriptures.

Acts 10:47 - Peter says "can anyone forbid water for baptizing these people..?" The Bible always links water and baptism.

Acts 22:16 – Ananias tells Saul, “arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins.” The “washing away” refers to water baptism.

Titus 3:5-6 – Paul writes about the “washing of regeneration,” which is “poured out on us” in reference to water baptism. “Washing” (loutron) generally refers to a ritual washing with water.

Heb. 10:22 – the author is also writing about water baptism in this verse. “Having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.” Our bodies are washed with pure water in water baptism.

2 Kings 5:14 - Naaman dipped himself seven times in the Jordan, and his flesh was restored like that of a child. This foreshadows the regenerative function of baptism, by water and the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 44:3 - the Lord pours out His water and His Spirit. Water and the Spirit are linked to baptism. The Bible never separates them.

Ezek. 36:25-27 - the Lord promises He will sprinkle us with water to cleanse us from sin and give us a new heart and spirit. Paul refers to this verse in Heb. 10:22. The teaching of Ezekiel foreshadows the salvific nature of Christian baptism instituted by Jesus and taught in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Baptism is Salvific, Not Just Symbolic

https://www.scripturecatholic.com/sacrament-of-baptism/...
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SCRIPTURECATHOLIC.COM
SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM - Scripture Catholic
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Paul recommends that older widows take a pledge of celibacy. This was the beginning of women religious orders.

The institution of nuns and sisters, who devote themselves in various religious orders to the practice of a life of perfection, dates from the first ages of the Church, and women may claim with a certain pride that they were the first to embrace the religious state for its own sake, without regard to missionary work and ecclesiastical functions proper to men. St. Paul speaks of widows, who were called to certain kinds of church work (1 Timothy 5:9), and of virgins (1 Corinthians 7), whom he praises for their continence and their devotion to the things of the Lord. The virgins were remarkable for their perfect and perpetual chastity which the Catholic Apologists have extolled as a contrast to pagan corruption. Many also practiced poverty. From the earliest times they were called the spouses of Christ, according to St. Athanasius, the custom of the Church. St. Cyprian describes a virgin who had broken her vows as an adulteress. Tertullian distinguishes between those virgins who took the veil publicly in the assembly of the faithful, and others known to God alone; the veil seems to have been simply that of married women. Virgins vowed to the service of God, at first continued to live with their families, but as early as the end of the third century there were community houses known as partheuones; and certainly at the beginning of the same century the virgins formed a special class in the Church, receiving Holy Communion before the laity. The office of Good Friday in which the virgins are mentioned after the porters, and the Litany of the Saints, in which they are invoked with the widows, shows traces of this classification. They were sometimes admitted among the deaconesses for the baptism of adult women and to exercise the functions which St. Paul had reserved for widows of sixty years.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Schwester Gertraude who was converted properly and baptised in the Spirit in the Paderborn revival of 1975, carried on her nursing I believe as a nun.
Mother Teresa spent a whole 40 years in the nunnery seeking God and getting fixed in the thirdlevel consciousness of knowing you are Christ in your form . What the world really remember her for in Calcutta happened after this.
Helga Franke , another of my friends was a white sister in Zambia.
I don’t think she ever married but retired from Africa nearly 20 years ago.

The issue isn’t all the amazing ways people have been led, the issue is that none of the Bible scriptures have been followed consistently.

It’s a bit like half following a recipe, and instead of ending up with a cake , ending up with something that’s half biscuit half cake and wondering what to do with it.

This is particularly true with celibate people.

In Paderborn all the people in our little home church which centred around the Franke apartment, were baptised in the Spirit.
We lived together. I had a flat elsewhere, but a lot of us were single and it was just normal to be relating and sharing but feeling no pressure to go out with each other romantically.
In fact two of them, one Lutheran and one of the Franke’s never actually fell in love until Karola actually looked after Martin in hospital.
Martins songs are in one of the main German songbooks. I think yo this day he is a worship leader in Catholic circles in Frankfurt.

The norm is that everybody is born again, baptised in the Spirit , then in some form of community around families or singles, or round Father level people.

If we obey 1Corinthians 12-14 and Ephesians 4 everything progresses so fast like in the gospels. You don’t end up with these stupid half baked situations where singles feel out on a limb like some kind of appendix.

We have pioneered a more formal version called Bible House in the Argentinian churches called Rios de Vida, but even this is a bit artificial compared with what happens in third level revival environments.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch I'll address any nonsensical opinion you have if you just shorten your rambling...
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch "Thirdleve consciousness" sounds like man made, new age silliness.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch John we wouldn’t have to speak this way if churches preached the Bible.
There you go declaring how important the Pope
The Father
The supposed mature Christian is
And you go wiping the floor of 1 John 2 just because I am highlighting the third section nobody ever reads talks about or preaches on.

Forget your damned pope and learn something in Jesus Christ.
You are ridiculous man.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch What do you think the devil is basing all the New Age on?
He’s killing it in the church and doing his own version which is a rip-off still attached to his spirit so nobody takes up the Cross.

You are a complete imbecile if you haven’t learned this already about the age we live in and you have the audacity to try and get me back in your silly church . Grow up in God and get some discernment
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Done! That's why I returned Home to the almost 2,000 year old Catholic Church. The very same Church Jesus Christ established in Jerusalem on the Rock of St. Peter in A.D. 33.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Well how come you don’t know anything.
I think we are done here. In all my years tuning pianos talking with thousands of people to see if they were spiritually hungry, I’d meet many who were but couldn’t hack church, especially bishops kids.
I don’t discern any particular hunger in you or you may be disguising it well. You are happy in what you are in. Well everybody else is voting with their feet. Every blessing.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Agreed...I am Catholic because it is TRUE.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Whatever I know now is because I inherited it from almost 20 centuries of True Christianity.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch The Church is Visible and One

Matt. 5:14 – Jesus says a city set on a hill cannot be hidden, and this is in reference to the Church. The Church is not an invisible, ethereal, atmospheric presence, but a single, visible and universal body through the Eucharist. The Church is an extension of the Incarnation.

Matt. 12:25; Mark 3:25; Luke 11:17 – Jesus says a kingdom divided against itself is laid waste and will not stand. This describes Protestantism and the many thousands of denominations that continue to multiply each year.

Matt. 16:18 – Jesus says, “I will build my ‘Church’ (not churches).” There is only one Church built upon one Rock with one teaching authority, not many different denominations, built upon various pastoral opinions and suggestions.

Matt. 16:19; 18:18 – Jesus gave the apostles binding and loosing authority. But this authority requires a visible Church because “binding and loosing” are visible acts. The Church cannot be invisible, or it cannot bind and loose.

John 10:16 – Jesus says there must only be one flock and one shepherd. This cannot mean many denominations and many pastors, all teaching different doctrines. Those outside the fold must be brought into the Church.

John 17:11,21,23 – Jesus prays that His followers may be perfectly one as He is one with the Father. Jesus’ oneness with the Father is perfect. It can never be less. Thus, the oneness Jesus prays for cannot mean the varied divisions of Christianity that have resulted since the Protestant reformation. There is perfect oneness only in the Catholic Church.

John 17:9-26 – Jesus’ prayer, of course, is perfectly effective, as evidenced by the miraculous unity of the Catholic Church during her 2,000 year history.

John 17:21 – Jesus states that the visible unity of the Church would be a sign that He was sent by God. This is an extremely important verse. Jesus tells us that the unity of the Church is what bears witness to Him and the reality of who He is and what He came to do for us. There is only one Church that is universally united, and that is the Catholic Church. Only the unity of the Catholic Church truly bears witness to the reality that Jesus Christ was sent by the Father.

Rom. 15:5 – Paul says that we as Christians must live in harmony with one another. But this can only happen if there is one Church with one body of faith. This can only happen by the charity of the Holy Spirit who dwells within the Church.

Rom. 16:17 – Paul warns us to avoid those who create dissensions and difficulties. This includes those who break away from the Church and create one denomination after another. We need to avoid their teaching, and bring them back into the one fold of Christ.

1 Cor. 1:10- Paul prays for no dissensions and disagreements among Christians, being of the same mind and the same judgment. How can Protestant pastors say that they are all of the same mind and the same judgment on matters of faith and morals?

Eph. 1:22-23; 5:23-32; Col. 1:18,24 – again, the Church does not mean “invisible” unity, because Paul called it the body (not the soul) of Christ. Bodies are visible, and souls are invisible.

Eph. 4:11-14 – God gives members of the Church various gifts in order to attain to the unity of the faith. This unity is only found in the Catholic Church.

Eph. 4:3-5 – we are of one body, one Spirit, one faith and one baptism. This requires doctrinal unity, not 30,000 different denominations.

Eph. 5:25 – the Church is the Bride of Christ. Jesus has only one Bride, not many.

Eph. 5:30; Rom. 12:4-5; 1 Cor. 6:15 – we, as Christians, are one visible body in Christ, not many bodies, many denominations.

Phil. 1:27 – Paul commands that we stand firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the Gospel.

Phil. 2:2 – Paul prays that Christians be of the same mind, of one accord. Yet there are 30,000 different “Protest”ant denominations?

Col. 1:18 – Christ is the Head of the one body, the Church. He is not the Head of many bodies or many sects.

1 Tim. 6:4 – Paul warns about those who seek controversy and disputes about words. There must be a universal authority to appeal to who can trace its authority back to Christ.

2 Tim. 2:14 – do not dispute about words which only ruin the hearers. Two-thousand years of doctrinal unity is a sign of Christ’s Church.

2 Tim. 4:3 – this is a warning on following our own desires and not the teachings of God. It is not a cafeteria where we pick and choose. We must humble ourselves and accept all of Christ’s teachings which He gives us through His Church.

Rev. 7:9 – the heavenly kingdom is filled with those from every nation and from all tribes, peoples and tongues. This is “catholic,” which means universal.

1 Peter 3:8 – Peter charges us to have unity of spirit. This is impossible unless there is a central teaching authority given to us by God.

Gen. 12:2-3 – since Abram God said all the families of the earth shall be blessed. This family unity is fulfilled only in the Catholic Church.

Dan. 7:14 – Daniel prophesies that all peoples, nations and languages shall serve His kingdom. Again, this catholicity is only found in the Catholic Church.

1 Cor. 14:33 – God cannot be the author of the Protestant confusion. Only the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church claims and proves to be Christ’s Church.

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Chris Welch
Chris Welch God isn’t the author of Catholic confusion or Protestant confusion
It’s part of the list of works if the flesh called party spirit.

We maintain the Unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace until we attain the unity of the faith.

The single eye sees God going on psalm 123.

The issue Paul prays in Ephesians 1 is that each will be given a spirit of revelation to see properly

The same in Revelation, John says pray to receive eye salve
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Chris Welch has right...all others now and throughout history have wrong...all of you self-proclaimed holders of the "truth" say that.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Read this when you have time
It’s copied from my timeline

Here’s my spiritual and natural DNA.
My parents were quiet servant people who saw what needed doing and got on with it.
I am NOT like that temperamentally but it is my leadership grid. I see in scripture that all the apostolic guys seemed to have fairly equal status. Although Paul could arguably have had a higher place, in Corinthians we don’t see that.... and Paul is at pains to point out that they were not to call themselves... I am of Apollos, or Paul or Peter..... but respect that one planted one watered etc etc
Mel Tari at no point says he headed up a team in the Indonesian revival. He describes incredible miracles .... people healed raised from the dead , they walked on water and multiplied food. But the Teams did this as they went about and it became necessary. Mel handles America with a lot of grace, but to see all the big ministry names must have made him puke after Indonesia.
My shepherd , Ron Knight , was one of five elders in Old Town Baptist Amersham for a brief time. When a false report went up from a wrong spirit, they all stood down in good spirit . None left. Ron just carried on pouring himself out into us young people regardless and although he did preach, for the rest of his life he was given no further position.
ARTHUR Wallis loosely was the father figure at the time the new housechurches were forming. I think people respected him as the leading authority but at no point did anyone know publicly. The London meetings which culminated in the Albert Hall, were run again by leaders that just recognised each other and were recognised by the people as speaking NOW Rhema Word. Then came the Bible Weeks which were a whole change of gear in the UK with prophetic teaching input from the Fort Lauderdale crowd, especially Ern Baxter and Bob MUMFORD .
During this period I went to hear deeper Word, thirdlevel Word from mother Basilea Schlink and Mother Martyria in Darmstadt. Both of those sisters recognised each other and the community grew up around them.
Ed Miller and his son Robert held a conference when I was at Emsworth church , but the conference was at Ashburnham. They flowed together and God would minister very deeply to people.
Although Lakeland 2008 went wrong, the principle of establishing and gathering round the real Presence of God was a good pattern and some excellent young ministries and worship leaders were emerging alongside Todd Bentley.
My vision is for a Mel Tari type pattern of virtually nameless individuals who know how to hold the Melchizedek Order between them.
Sam Fife’s Conferences were like this. Different leaders would be perceived to have the main burden of Word at any point, but they still had this annoying Catholic popish infrastructure as did our own Rios de Vida churches. It’s almost as if the transition phase churches and leaders really can’t trust the Melchizedek Order to flow properly unless there’s a bit of human scaffolding there.
But in the Bible it doesn’t exist. In Jerusalem Jesus brother James is the administrative head all of a sudden, but he wasn’t one of the 12 and the apostles just flowed with each other going from house to house teaching and breaking bread.
Where the Catholics even get their stupidities from. Apparently Ignatius is a lot to blame.

But do you guys out there believe Jesus or not when He said
The pure in heart shall see God
And
If you have a single eye your body shall be filled with Light

Basically psalm 123.... seeing God going on and getting on with it.

Which apostle
Which pope
Ever gave his blessing to the two women who went to the tomb?

Mr Zilcho
Pope Anonymousio

No flaming apostle had his ears cleared out by then!!!! But the women were actually listening to Jesus when he stated the precise number of days before being resurrected.

So JOHN Reynolds pack your stupid bags and go to Rome and be with idiot men that no nothing of what Jesus is actually saying.
Or perhaps make a woman Pope.
Chances are she won’t be sacrificing children in a Ninth Circle Cult.

Do you see that if we can actually get to a point where several are of the calibre of Evan Roberts,all holding their positions very lightly like eunuchs....
Perhaps one mans failure like Todd Bentley in 2008 would be less likely to happen, and wouldn’t affect anything anyway...

Or Evan Roberts burning out and the whole Welsh Revival just stopping.

Or are you all just concerned about ministry?
Who flaming cares about ministry
Names in lights
Standing behind a podium with women’s faces gleaming at you
Forget the stupid women. Send them back home. If they don’t want Jesus but are really after boyfriend pastor... and that when they are married... we don’t want those women anyway until they really want Jesus.

Who flaming cares about ministry as a position in lights any more? We have had a belly full.
We want Jesus as Head of His church. We don’t have to walk in separation anymore.
Anybody ever hear that Jesus pierced the veil?
He opened the way through.

Why are you still putting up with a wet group of teenagers singing in a worship band to get us into the outer courts of Gods Presence where the pastor takes over and addresses everybody like they are outer courts people worshipping an out there God?

Grow up pastor and get out of the way.
For the whole Body building itself up in love are joined by that which every joint supplies .... when each is working properly.

It’s a Kingdom we are preaching.
It’s a Kingdom we are practicing
But you’d never know because each service is run by one man who may even be Spirit filled .
King DAvid was an anointed man. Didn’t stop him piling the Ark of Gods Presence onto a new cart and wheeling it along.

Yes you can run a service with a worship group to get a little Presence
Then a man behind a podium to preach good stuff
Its easy . It’s how pagans fo meetings. It’s a way to fill two hours. It works sort of.

But it isn’t the flaming Kingdom!!!!
Surely the Kingdom is where Jesus is manifestly Head and his subjects are behaving like subjects together?
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch "My timeline "

The unholy trinity: Me, Myself and I
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Only Peter gets all three...a God given name change, the Keys and Binding/Losing authority.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch However, Peter doesn't live on earth forever...

Peter’s Keys and Papal Succession

Jer. 33:17 – Jeremiah prophesies that David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the earthly House of Israel. Either this is a false prophecy, or David has a successor of representatives throughout history.

Dan. 2:44 – Daniel prophesies an earthly kingdom that will never be destroyed. Either this is a false prophecy, or the earthly kingdom requires succession.

Isa. 22:20 – in the old Davidic kingdom, Eliakim succeeds Shebna as the chief steward of the household of God. The kingdom employs a mechanism of dynastic succession. King David was dead for centuries, but his kingdom is preserved through a succession of representatives.

Isa. 22:19 – Shebna is described as having an “office” and a “station.” An office, in order for it to be an office, has successors. In order for an earthly kingdom to last, a succession of representatives is required. This was the case in the Old Covenant kingdom, and it is the case in the New Covenant kingdom which fulfills the Old Covenant. Jesus our King is in heaven, but He has appointed a chief steward over His household with a plan for a succession of representatives.

Isa. 22:21 – Eliakim is called “father” or “papa” of God’s people. The word Pope used by Catholics to describe the chief steward of the earthly kingdom simply means papa or father in Italian. This is why Catholics call the leader of the Church “Pope.” The Pope is the father of God’s people, the chief steward of the earthly kingdom and Christ’s representative on earth.

Isa. 22:22 – we see that the keys of the kingdom pass from Shebna to Eliakim. Thus, the keys are used not only as a symbol of authority, but also to facilitate succession. The keys of Christ’s kingdom have passed from Peter to Linus all the way to our current Pope with an unbroken lineage for almost 2,000 years.

Acts 1:20 – we see in the early Church that successors are immediately chosen for the apostles’ offices. Just as the Church replaced Judas, it also replaced Peter with a successor after Peter’s death.

John 21:15-17; Luke 22:31-32 – Jesus’ creation of Peter’s office as chief shepherd with the keys passed to Linus, Cletus, Clement I, all the way to our current Holy Father.

Matt. 23:2 – this shows that the Jews understood the importance of succession to the chair and its attendant authority. Here, Jesus respects Moses’ seat (“cathedra”) of authority which was preserved by succession. In the Church, Peter’s seat is called the “cathedra,” and when Peter’s successor speaks officially on a matter of faith or morals, it may rise to the level of an “ex cathedra” (from the chair) teaching.

Eph. 3:21 – this divine word tells us that Jesus Christ’s Church will exist in all generations. Only the Catholic Church can prove by succession such existence. Our Protestant brothers and sisters become uncomfortable with this passage because it requires them to look for a Church that has existed for over 2,000 years. This means that all the other Christian denominations (some of which have been around even less than one year!) cannot be the church that Christ built upon the rock of Peter.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch So you are a 33 Rd degree Freemason grasping onto natural heritage with both hands instead of trusting Jesus with your life.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch House of Rothschild also believe this and so do the Merovingians like our Queen and the Queen of Holland.
Hitler went as far as collecting up all the artifacts he could find from Israel.
I knew there was something more buried in your believing which means you are not really hungry for Jesus.
You have your own programming and it is keeping you from the simple walk of trusting God with all your heart.
So I leave you to it. You think it works for you.
I think it’s as nuts as Kofi Annan being recruited no headhunted as a student by the Freemasons in Mfantsipim so he could have his role later on.
My parents taught him briefly.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Ramblings of a confused soul.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch "not hungry for Jesus"

We are fully fed by Christ at every Mass.

https://www.scripturecatholic.com/the-eucharist/
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SCRIPTURECATHOLIC.COM
THE EUCHARIST - Scripture Catholic
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Jesuits and Illuminati have the same devilish code
denial.
so if you never were a freemason, or a Jesuit or Illuminati
your answer would be exactly the same anyway
Denial
or a put down , like "ramblings of a confused soul"
or silence. So nobody ever knows ofcourse.

Until a plan has come to fruition then a pretence at regret has to be made.
For example if I talk about Hitler or something verified, you can never use
"ramblings of a confused soul" because everybody knows it is accurate.
You kind of give yourself away and your Church by the response to historic slaughters...
the 70 original Christian bishops you slaughtered
Madame Guyon you burnt
The Auvergne atrocity where the songs of the Auvergne originate.

Platitudes like "being fed full at Mass" when I have talked along the lines of
Psalm 132
“I will not enter my house
or go to my bed,
4 I will allow no sleep to my eyes
or slumber to my eyelids,
5 till I find a place for the Lord,
a dwelling for the Mighty One of Jacob.”
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch The only way you'll know that I am on my way to "true faith" is when I start agreeing with YOUR point of view.

What was True before there was a YOU?

Will your "truth" die when you die?

Truth has ALWAYS been True whether you’re convinced or not.

OBJECTIVE TRUTH: To say that a statement is “objectively true” means that it is true for people of all cultures, times, etc., even if they do not know it or recognize it to be true.

SUBJECTIVE TRUTH: To say that something is “subjectively true” means that it is true for the person(s) making the judgment, even though it may not be true for others.

Christianity has always recognized that religious and moral truth belongs to the first category: it is objective and not subjective. In other words, it is the same for all human beings living in every century, culture, and circumstances.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Christianity has always recognized that religious and moral truth belongs to the first category: it is objective and not subjective

Read Catholicism....
Or the Jewish position now with a made to measure Christ.

NO NO NO John 3 explodes that sentence for the rubbish it is.
Psalm 85 ends proving that the objective kisses the subjective and that is ofcourse what was happenng as Jesus walked around Palestine and each time He came to a Feast He would say
I AM THIS....

Apart from Pentecost. There isnt any recorded information about Pentecost in the gospels. Not because it wasnt being celebrated, but presumably waiting for Acts 2 when
the subjective 120 followed by the subjective 3000 would kiss the objective of Passover and their part in it followed by grace and forgiveness.

But there is nothing purely objective about any of the Jewish Feasts
nor about the three stages of growth in 1 John 2
They are all about the objective being made subjective.
All of life is consciousness.
If it isnt yours yet, it isnt yours. Thats also why infant baptism is such a Catholic abomination and has no part in the kingdom ofGod.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Infant Baptism

Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 – these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant – Col 2:11-12 – however, baptism is the new “circumcision” for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.

Job 14:1-4 – man that is born of woman is full of trouble and unclean. Baptism is required for all human beings because of our sinful human nature.

Psalm 51:5 – we are conceived in the iniquity of sin. This shows the necessity of baptism from conception.

Matt. 18:2-5 – Jesus says unless we become like children, we cannot enter into heaven. So why would children be excluded from baptism?

Matt 19:14 – Jesus clearly says the kingdom of heaven also belongs to children. There is no age limit on entering the kingdom, and no age limit for being eligible for baptism.

Mark 10:14 – Jesus says to let the children come to Him for the kingdom of God also belongs to them. Jesus says nothing about being too young to come into the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:16 – Jesus says to the crowd, “He who believes and is baptized will be saved.” But in reference to the same people, Jesus immediately follows with “He who does not believe will be condemned.” This demonstrates that one can be baptized and still not be a believer. This disproves the Protestant argument that one must be a believer to be baptized. There is nothing in the Bible about a “believer’s baptism.”

Luke 18:15 – Jesus says, “Let the children come to me.” The people brought infants to Jesus that he might touch them. This demonstrates that the receipt of grace is not dependent upon the age of reason.

Acts 2:38 – Peter says to the multitude, “Repent and be baptized..” Protestants use this verse to prove one must be a believer (not an infant) to be baptized. But the Greek translation literally says, “If you repent, then each one who is a part of you and yours must each be baptized” (“Metanoesate kai bapistheto hekastos hymon.”) This, contrary to what Protestants argue, actually proves that babies are baptized based on their parents’ faith. This is confirmed in the next verse.

Acts 2:39 – Peter then says baptism is specifically given to children as well as adults. “Those far off” refers to those who were at their “homes” (primarily infants and children). God’s covenant family includes children. The word “children” that Peter used comes from the Greek word “teknon” which also includes infants.

Luke 1:59 – this proves that “teknon” includes infants. Here, John as a “teknon” (infant) was circumcised. See also Acts 21:21 which uses “teknon” for eight-day old babies. So baptism is for infants as well as adults.

Acts 10:47-48 – Peter baptized the entire house of Cornelius, which generally included infants and young children. There is not one word in Scripture about baptism being limited to adults.

Acts 16:15 – Paul baptized Lydia and her entire household. The word “household” comes from the Greek word “oikos” which is a household that includes infants and children.

Acts 16:15 – further, Paul baptizes the household based on Lydia’s faith, not the faith of the members of the household. This demonstrates that parents can present their children for baptism based on the parents’ faith, not the children’s faith.

Acts 16:30-33 – it was only the adults who were candidates for baptism that had to profess a belief in Jesus. This is consistent with the Church’s practice of instructing catechumens before baptism. But this verse does not support a “believer’s baptism” requirement for everyone. See Acts 16:15,33. The earlier one comes to baptism, the better. For those who come to baptism as adults, the Church has always required them to profess their belief in Christ. For babies who come to baptism, the Church has always required the parents to profess the belief in Christ on behalf of the baby. But there is nothing in the Scriptures about a requirement for ALL baptism candidates to profess their own belief in Christ (because the Church has baptized babies for 2,000 years).

Acts 16:33 – Paul baptized the jailer (an adult) and his entire household (which had to include children). Baptism is never limited to adults and those of the age of reason. See also Luke 19:9; John 4:53; Acts 11:14; 1 Cor. 1:16; and 1 Tim. 3:12; Gen. 31:41; 36:6; 41:51; Joshua 24:15; 2 Sam. 7:11, 1 Chron. 10:6 which shows “oikos” generally includes children.

Rom. 5:12 – sin came through Adam and death through sin. Babies’ souls are affected by Adam’s sin and need baptism just like adult souls.

Rom. 5:15 – the grace of Jesus Christ surpasses that of the Old Covenant. So children can also enter the new Covenant in baptism. From a Jewish perspective, it would have been unthinkable to exclude infants and children from God’s Covenant kingdom.

1 Cor. 1:16 – Paul baptized the household (“oikos”) of Stephanus. Baptism is not limited to adults.

Eph. 1:1; Col. 1:2 – Paul addresses the “saints” of the Church, and these include the children he addresses in Eph. 6:1 and Col. 3:20. Children become saints of the Church only through baptism.

Eph. 2:3 – we are all by nature children of wrath, in sin, like all mankind. Infants are no exception. See also Psalm 51:5 and Job 14:1-4 which teach us we are conceived in sin and born unclean.

2 Thess. 3:10 – if anyone does not work let him not eat. But this implies that those who are unable to work should still be able to eat. Babies should not starve because they are unable to work, and should also not be denied baptism because they are unable to make a declaration of faith.

Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:3-5 – the faith of those who brought in the paralytic cured the paralytic’s sins. This is an example of the forgiveness of sins based on another’s faith, just like infant baptism. The infant child is forgiven of sin based on the parents’ faith.

Matt. 8:5-13 – the servant is healed based upon the centurion’s faith. This is another example of healing based on another’s faith. If Jesus can heal us based on someone else’s faith, then He can baptize us based on someone else’s faith as well.

Mark 9:22-25 – Jesus exercises the child’s unclean spirit based on the father’s faith. This healing is again based on another’s faith.

1 Cor. 7:14 – Paul says that children are sanctified by God through the belief of only one of their parents.

Exodus 12:24-28 – the Passover was based on the parent’s faith. If they did not kill and eat the lamb, their first-born child died.

Joshua 5:2-7 – God punished Israel because the people had not circumcised their children. This was based on the parent’s faith. The parents play a critical role in their child’s salvation.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch After Baptism...CONFIRMATION!

SACRAMENT OF CONFIRMATION

Acts 8:14-17 – the people of Samaria were baptized in Christ, but did not receive the fullness of the Spirit until they were confirmed by the elders. Confirmation is a sacrament that Jesus Christ instituted within His Catholic Church to further strengthen those who have reached adulthood.

Acts 19:5-6 – the people of Ephesus were baptized in Christ, but Paul laid hands on them to seal them with the Holy Spirit. This sealing refers to the sacrament of confirmation.

Eph. 1:13 – Paul writes that the baptized Ephesians were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, in reference to confirmation.

Eph. 4:30 – Paul says the Ephesians were sealed in the Holy Spirit of God, in reference to the sealing of confirmation.

Heb. 6:2 – Paul gives instruction to the Hebrews about the laying on of hands, in reference to confirmation, not ordination. The early Church laid hands upon the confirmand to administer the sacrament of confirmation.

Heb. 6:2 – this verse also refers to the cycle of life and its relationship to the sacraments – baptism, confirmation, death and judgment – which apply to all people.

John 6:27 – Jesus says the Father has set His seal on Him. As the Father sets His seal on Jesus, so Jesus sets His seal on us on the sacrament of baptism, and later, in the sacrament of confirmation.

Rev. 9:4 – the locusts could not harm those with the seal of God upon their foreheads. See also Rev. 14:1 and 22:4.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch If you had come from witchcraft,.as.we.see in Acts when the magician asks can I have this power too? The magician twists what is really happening into his favourite subject power as shown him by devils. Such a one needs a detox for.a while . His whole concept of.power needs to be put in a washing machine because it stands between him and any new knowledge of.heaven.
The same.with Catholicism.
The teachings of "sacrament of.confirmation" is.filthy rags talk. It's not Kingdom talk.
There is no Bible.doctrine of apostles and bishops having to lay hands on people and. Confirm them.
For a start as you freely admitted yesterday everything is so objective nothing actually happens any more, especially with the hands of.somebody so.filthy as the Pope.

The apostles were the first generation of ministries so.of course they wanted to.make.sure people were filled with the Spirit properly. We were the same at 13 and during our teenage when we were baptised in the Spirit.
But that's shafts passages are.referring to. Also they are as Hebrews 6 says first things. Everybody should be baptised in the Spirit upon conversion as.the phrase
Repent be baptised and be filled with the Spirit says.

Catholicism is monstrous just like the old.Pharisees and Sadducees. They block the door to entry to God.but they themselves never enter.
The proof of the pudding is who is actually getting baptised in the Spirit.
Schwester Gertraude a nun has to wait for a whole move of the Spirit in Paderborn t o become.born again and baptised in the Spirit, because she never was the first time through a useless Catholic bishop going through the supposed motions of.a.sacrament of.catechism and a sacrament of.confirmation, which as we see.over and over again is purely meaningless liturgy in the hands of Catholic hirelings. They pass their exams, they do their instructions. Place.hand on head like.so.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Repeat after me what those passages actually say......
Did you receive the Spirit when you believed?
No.…See more
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Sorry...just your own personal interpretations and opinions.

Sacred Scripture warns the individual to avoid "private interpretation" (2 Peter 1:20-21) because it may lead to his "own destruction" (2 Peter 3:15-17). For it is not our person…See more
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Admit it this is useless.
You deny
Private experience in God
The authority of those who actually do what JOHN 3 says and follow the Spirit

And instead erect your dumb Joseph Smith

Or CHARLES Russell Watchtower notes to every bit of the Bible to save you from ever experiencing anything firsthand.

Because , I hope you read the Bible, you will notice exactly the same exasperation with you and the Catholic body that Jesus had with
The original so-called
Called out
Nation
Born of Abraham
Infinitely already more connected than you or I people of God.... the Jews.

But pretty much everything ever said through His mouth to Pharisees and Sadducees applies to your comments and silly traditions of men.

If you actually were born again and baptised in the Spirit you’d be in hysterics at what you are writing.

If the Pharisees and Sadducees could see themselves in the Spirit as Jesus saw them, they would also see how everything they said was stupid.

There’s no private interpretation here.
When Jesus said Repent be dunked

There’s no private interpretation

That’s full immersion in Greek

In the 17th century you would be the idiot calling “ dunkers” non conformists for conforming.

Because U dare tread in your stupid sacrament list, and say there is no such word....

There only things like
Laying in of hands
Anointing hankies
Dunking
Breaking ordinarybread and slugging back a bit of ordinary table wine in Jesus Name.

There’s no “ confirmation “

Or only in the broadest term of receiving properly for the first time which they missed out on earlier....

But there’s no doctrine that only bishops and apostles do this stuff just because in Acts they were largely stories about the first wave, who unlike Catholics were properly prepared in the Spirit by Jesus.

There’s no single priests
As in unmarried priests
Or in the sense of a single man leading a church. No no no
Always..... submit to your leaders plural.

Obviously the Catholics can’t manage that because priests don’t actually get on together.
They are in it for the office, the agenda, the position of being over a church....
Which is illegal.
Jesus is Head of His church.

And then you have the audacity to say just because U don’t believe your scriptural errors, and your own lack of any real experience, that must push me in your little pigeonholes of

Private interpretation

And Protestant.

You are the one in the crap cult mate. You are the one not obeying scripture in any way Shape or form.

The only difference with the word “ private and personal belief “ is that you have had a series of Popes introduce their private and personal beliefs, and it’s now a corporate set of beliefs in a common set of books like lots of Korans.

We will all go round the villages parading dead bones and call it Body of Christ Day but in Latin so nobody has a clue what it’s about

We will all worship Mary the fourth member of the Trinity ( 1870)

We will forbid priests from marrying so they become raping lunatics desperate for what they signed up to missing out on

We will baptise infants before they have any clue about what’s going on and we will call that the new circumcision in the New Covenant

It goes on and on and on and on.... personal interpretation after personal interpretation.

You know what that brings don’t you ?

Revelation says if you add anything or subtract anything then you are accursed.

In Freemasonry by the 33rd degree initiation you are so demonpossessed thatbyour own family comes under the curses of Deuteronomy.

In Southampton Marion Daniels prays deliverance over Masonic curses, because one of the effects is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome on the next generation. Sometimes it is a deaf or dumb spirit.
Quite often if the grandfather is released the grand child phones up excitedly to say he or she has lost her symptoms. The whole curse is wound up.

A lovely kind and gentle man was moved by our school revival. He was Catholic and FRENCH and when he left as a French assistant st our school he became a priest.

He is becoming more and more crippled as we speak because of the curses he has brought upon himself in Catholicism, instead of standing fast in the freedom of Christ that we taught him.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Your thoughts and opinions die with you...I'll stay with almost 20 centuries of True Christianity found in its fullest in the almost 2,000 year old One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church...the very same Church our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ established in Jerusalem in A.D. 33.

I'll be praying for you.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Well if the Pope is found to be a ninth circle member participating in vile ritual sacrifices of children, it will be interesting what you devotees to dead doctrines will do next.
When after the 60s Mass was no longer in Latin a whole bunch separated themselves off.
Ofcourse my doctrine won’t die , it’s the same as Jesus doctrine because I have been walking in the Galatians 2.20 walk for years. It can only expand as people get more Light.
In His Light we see Light.
There are thousands of us who walk in these understandings, I’m not special. You probably haven’t met many yet so you think I am a single weirdo. This is the gospel my friend. The one in Acts the letters and 1 JOHN 2, without the silly frocks and daft hats and wooden sticks, because we have the real stuff.
Did Jesus walk around with a silly Stick and hat? JOHN his cousin may have looked weird, but apart from wanting to divide up his nice garment, there was nothing about Jesus look that stood out at all.
He didn’t even have a Moses almond stick
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You CRAZILY stated out of HATRED and hilarious BIGOTRY: "Well if the Pope is found to be a ninth circle member participating in vile ritual sacrifices of children, it will be interesting what you devotees to dead doctrines will do next"

Sinful individual Catholics...even Popes...cannot destroy the One True Church...Jesus Christ PROMISED.

😇🤣😇🤣😇🤣😇🤣🇻🇦️🇻🇦️🇻🇦️🇻🇦️🇻🇦️🇻🇦️
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "Ofcourse my doctrine won’t die , it’s the same as Jesus doctrine because I have been walking in the Galatians 2.20 walk for years"

That's they ALL say...Protestant individuals and groups following some individual, some mere mortal, claim THEY have it right...you would no more agree with them than you agree with me.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "It can only expand as people get more Light. In His Light we see Light"

30,000 denominations...30,001...30,002...30,003...more and more divisions isn't unity.

John 17:1-26
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "You probably haven’t met many yet so you think I am a single weirdo"

I'm 54, been doing this via email, social media and in person for years...you are as unique as the next guy who also has it right.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "The one in Acts the letters and 1 JOHN 2, without the silly frocks and daft hats and wooden sticks, because we have the real stuff. Did Jesus walk around with a silly Stick and hat?"

There are LOTS of things not in Scripture or in the Early Catholic Church:

The words “Trinity”, “Incarnation”, “BIBLE”, the use of electricity, lights, air conditioning, radio, motor vehicles, heating, pews, organs, pianos, guitars, speakers, church buildings, English, Altar Calls, Wednesday services, BIG flat screen TVs, and of course the New Testament, were also not available in the first century Church…should we condemn them as heretical?

Your view is very shallow.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "The one in Acts the letters and 1 JOHN 2, without the silly frocks and daft hats and wooden sticks, because we have the real stuff. Did Jesus walk around with a silly Stick and hat?"

There's nothing unscriptural about vestments. God commanded that they be used in the Old Testament. Look at Exodus 28:2:

For your brother Aaron you will make sacred vestments to give dignity and magnificence. You will instruct all the skilled men, whom I have endowed with skill, to make Aaron's vestments for his consecration to my priesthood. These are the vestments which they must make: a pectoral, an ephod, a robe, an embroidered tunic, a turban, and a belt. They must make sacred vestments for your brother Aaron and his sons, for them to be priests in my service. They will use gold and violet material, red-purple and crimson, and finely woven linen.
The rest of the chapter gives details on each garment.

Nothing in the New Testament requires abolition of priestly vestments. Our Lord attacked the Jewish leaders for a number of sins, but he never condemned their priestly garb. It's true the early Church didn't use the Old Testament vestments, but this is because Christians didn't want to identify their leaders with the Jewish priesthood.

Part of the problem for Fundamentalists is that vestments set priests apart from the laity. Fundamentalists object to a ministerial priesthood in the Church. They see vestments as a way of expressing a distinction between clergy and laity.

On this they're right, but there's nothing wrong with such hierarchical distinctions. The New Testament is full of them (Acts 20:28; Eph 2:20, 4:11; Phil 1:1; 1 Tm 3:1-13; Ti 1:5).

Within Fundamentalism there's also an unhealthy opposition set up between the spiritual and the material realms. There is an anti-incarnational attitude which views the use of anything material as superstitious. The distaste for vestments is but one example of this.

Fundamentalists who say Catholic priests adopted distinctive dress in the fifth century to put themselves above the laity have got it backwards. Actually, it was the laity who changed their attire, not to distinguish themselves from priests, but to keep up with fashions.

Catholic priests simply retained their manner of liturgical dress. Priestly vestments are no more than stylized secular Roman garments which have accrued symbolic, liturgical significance over the centuries.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "You deny Private experience in God"

No...I and almost 20 centuries of True Christianity deny private revelation that is new and has NOT been True.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch This is It!
This IS Proverbs 3
Not Moonies
Not Mormons
Not DAvid Bergs Children if God
Not Catholicism
Not Catholicism warmed up which is Protestantism
Not the simplified American evangelicalism
Not the Charismatic merry go round of gifts and power for gifts and power sake.
This is the apostles breaking bread from house to house and establishing folk in Christ.
This is Paul saying( in the context of judgment but giving the game away) when the Lords Spirit is among you and my spirit then......
Showing he laid a foundation of moving in the Melchizedek Order among them.
All you can do is point to a mechanistic roll out of a Catholic franchise.
I teach moving in the Living Lord Himself as learned from the one who triggered the revival in Argentina and subsequent revivals over nations and areas of nations.
My whole life has gone from church waking up to church waking up since I was woken up in 1972, and that includes Paderborn and its Catholic seminary.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Sorry...just more opinion.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You mentioned: "This is the apostles breaking bread from house to house and establishing folk in Christ"

The Breaking of the Bread has a specific meaning in the New Testament:

Acts 2:42 – from the Church’s inception, apostolic tradition included celebrating the Eucharist (the “breaking of the bread”) to fulfill Jesus’ command “do this in remembrance of me.”

Luke 24:30-31,35 – Jesus is known only in the breaking of bread. Luke is emphasizing that we only receive the fullness of Jesus by celebrating the Eucharistic feast of His body and blood, which is only offered in its fullness by the Catholic Church.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch "I...my whole life...still the unholy trinity...me, myself and I.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch You are sad. That is one of the fantastic things about the real God that takes the heat off. It is God through His Body.
During Babylon it was Daniel. Then Nehemiah and Ezra who returned.
When Jesus was born it was Anna , Zechariah, and the other Old guy.
In the current mess of the Catholics, God has taken everybody back to stage one and it was Luther who nailed what the Catholics had wrecked, the rediscovery if justification by faith.
Then different aspects of Gods Sovereignty, baptisms, Quakers going to America .
In my lifetime everyone was still in denominations, so it was Bonhoeffer,Nee, Norman P Grubb, Graham Pulkingham, Mother Basilea Schlink, Richard Wurmbrand,Mother Teresa and so on.
People buy their books. People vote with their feet. It’s God in His Body. Here a little there a little.
The Body builds itself in love joined by that which every joint supplies when working properly.....

God can’t trust the really important things to man in the natural world nor the spiritual world.
So in the area of food God uses the randomness of the bee and pollination.
In building Christ God uses the randomness so called of 1 Corinthians 12, as the Holy Spirit leads each one.
And for a humans birth God uses the randomness of millions of sperm and one fertilising the egg.

The heat is off. The Catholics who try to control everything in sight because “ they are the true Church” create monstrosity after monstrosity thinking they are gathering everything for Christ, but really they are an ugly sister determined to cram their feet into Cinderella’s shoe. Whereas God has always worked in and round it all building His Body regardless, because Jesus is Lord.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Still...your opinions.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch "We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther, Commentary on St. John
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "In building Christ God uses the randomness so called of 1 Corinthians 12, as the Holy Spirit leads each one."

You have it exactly backwards.

John 17:1-26 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son that the Son may glorify thee, since thou hast given him power over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him. And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. I glorified thee on earth, having accomplished the work which thou gavest me to do; and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made. "I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest me out of the world; thine they were, and thou gavest them to me, and they have kept thy word. Now they know that everything that thou hast given me is from thee; for I have given them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from thee; and they have believed that thou didst send me. I am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those whom thou hast given me, for they are thine; all mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE. While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled. But now I am coming to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them thy word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, THAT THEY MAY ALL BE ONE; EVEN AS THOU, FATHER, ART IN ME, AND I IN THEE, THAT THEY ALSO MAY BE IN US, SO THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE THAT THOU HAST SENT ME. The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE EVEN AS WE ARE ONE, I IN THEM AND THOU IN ME, THAT THEY MAY BECOME PERFECTLY ONE, SO THAT THE WORLD MAY KNOW THAT THOU HAST SENT ME AND HAST LOVED THEM EVEN AS THOU HAST LOVED ME. Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world has not known thee, but I have known thee; and these know that thou hast sent me. I made known to them thy name, and I will make it known, that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them."
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch You have lost me.
Just do a short sentence of how you think that talking about the mechanics how God builds His Body gets to this glorious glorious overall vision of Him in us and us in Him.
How are they two opposites? Especially when I am equally quoting scripture in 1 Corinthians 12 and Ephesians 4
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Chris Welch "We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther, Commentary on St. John

That was a generous statement from somebody excommunicated for preaching truth back to Catholics don’t you think?
Catholics likewise must honour the persecuted church that they took everything from when they built their super infrastructure.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Generous or not...its fact.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch God's plan isn't random.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Truth isn't random.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Here’s the awesomeness
Gods Lordship is expressed through something that looks random.
There is nothing random about the Melchizedek Order or the Holy Spirit organising everybody.
There is probably nothing random about bees, but nevertheless if they did not pollinate huge proportions of our food would never happen
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch God is a whole lot more God than you Catholics ever believed
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch God is Lord of Jacob
Whose name means supplanter, manipulator, deceiver
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch I see the opposite...the more division away from the Church Jesus Christ established, the more watered down your truth becomes.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch That’s because you haven’t a single eye.

In reality you have. When you meet an adult you don’t do what you are doing here. The first thing you do is recognising the good in them and ofcourse that is the God in them. Who He created them to be.

That is the single eye. Seeing God going on.

You don’t see what isn’t happening first of all you see what is happening.

You do have to learn a spiritual truth.
There aren’t loads of denominations because the denominations are wrong.

There are loads of denominations because the default realm of Darkness is party spirit and schisms.

Anybody growing into maturity in Christ relates better and better with all those in that maturity.

It is irrelevant that Bonhoeffer is Lutheran
It is irrelevant that Mother Teresa is Catholic
It is irrelevant that Richard Wurmbrand is Baptist and Graham Pulkingham Episcopalean.
Because they are thirdlevellers.
They are expanded over and above their denomination.

I can go to Vatican State as I did and observe two priests who deliberately went out of their way not to acknowledge each other.
They are not mature in Christ. And they are the same flipping denomination.

So seeing with a single eye, you see where people are in Christ.

We don’t have a denomination problem we have a maturity problem.

Big denominations like Anglicanism and Catholicism disguise it all by having one church of more born again people , another church of traditional people.
But it’s the same problem as elsewhere.
Everybody is still as divided as hell. Literally.

When you get baptised in the Spirit you will see all these things and realise the earth isn’t quite the frightening place you Catholics make it.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Your truth is utterly watered down. You have no power. You don’t really know the Lord.
You have masses of Head Knowledge but you haven’t done much trusting in the heart yet.
You just can’t see how much you need Christ.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Another way of looking at the nutty Catholic way of doing things is to consider Paul’s statements in Romans.

We only hang by our faith. Period.

We are wild olives grafted into the natural olive tree.
What relevance is Catholicism? They strut round town as if they are something.
No Gentile church has claim to anything. We hang by a slender thread, our faith.
If, says Paul, the natural olive wasn’t spared , you can see how easily we will be cast off but for real genuine living faith from Christ Himself.

“ the life I now live” writes Paul “ is by the faith of Christ” in the original Greek.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Did Jesus Christ establish His Church?

FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of His Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (John 17:1-26, Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25-27, Rev. 19:7-8)
The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19-20, Rev. 5:9-10)
The Church Is Apostolic (Succession) (Eph. 2:19-20)
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Ephesians 4:1-16
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "No Gentile church has claim to anything"

Jesus Christ (GOD) thinks His Church is important...why don't YOU?

WDJD – What Did Jesus Do?

Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Oh don’t come that one with me.
My point is if the Jews were important and God set them aside for a time if we don’t engage in the ways commanded bringing forth the fruit of the Kingdom, as the apostle who you are really deriding wrote, we can be cast aside in an instant .
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Do I really have to cut and paste the passage for you just to shut your derision up?
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Sure...go ahead.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch “But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree? For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery-so that you will not be wise in your own estimation-that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, " THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB." " THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS." From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:17-36‬ ‭NASB‬‬http://bible.com/100/rom.11.17-36.nasb
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BIBLE.COM
Romans 11:17-36 NASB; But if some of the branches were…
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Amen!
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch I and the almost 2,000 year old Catholic Church agree with every single Word of Romans and the rest of Sacred Scripture, the Catholic Bible...but we may not agree with your newfangled understandings and interpretations of it.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Well know this, no Church will stand the ritual murder of innocents.

Henry VIII needed a strong navy and someone tipped him off about the monasteries and the wealth there, plus the fact that great atrocities were being committed. He was advised to position agents in the monasteries who wrote careful reports of all misdemeanours.
The Dissolution of the Monasteries was the result plus ofcourse the plundering of all their treasures. Our local crumbled ruin dates from this period.

There have been other occasions . But the Spanish Civil War originated not for Communist reasons but such was the outcry of the Spanish against finds of children’s bones around Spanish monasteries.
Franco was the Jesuits answer to keep them in line. Later Communists involved themselves in attempt to take Spain over.

Kevin Annette discoveries in and around Catholic orphanages including ritual abuse and murders under the Vatican , look like yet another series of judgments against Catholics . But until recently Popes were never found to be guilty.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch https://youtu.be/zbeREVAxHuE
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Dizdar: We Are Tracking Satanic Super Soldiers In ALL U.S.…
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Ridiculous...anti-Catholic propaganda...sorry you fell for it.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch I’d fall for it if it was talking about independent churches. Obviously the Pope sets himself up for a fall by adopting such a ludicrous position , but no the ex witch Doreen Irvine tipped us off about the people she saw at witch events back in the 70s.
Presumably that’s the 30 minutes cut from Eyes Wide Shut before they killed Kubrick.
All this so terrified Nicole Kidman you begin to see how she got the hell out of her marriage to Scientologist Tom Cruise. Somebody said he has now left Scientology too.
The post above about Supersoldiers actually relates to kids brought up in Scientology who are propagandised young.
This is sadly all interrelated and who knows how many in Catholic circles are involved. The truth will always out, just as it did with Henry VIII and Spanish Civil War.

The devil appears to have set all main institutions up for a crash. This was prophesied in St Marks Square Rome when the Pope invited all the charismatics to hold a gathering.
I put one of the clearest prophecies on my blog.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch The destruction of the English Monasteries set back the advancement of the modern age by hundreds of years. The invention of carbon steel lead to modern industrial revolution...many Catholic Monasteries in England were laboratories, recent archaeological discoveries reveal that these laboratories were on the verge of inventing carbon steel over 200 years earlier when King Henry VIII destroyed them.

Catholic scientists, both religious and lay, have led scientific discovery in many fields. From ancient times, Christian emphasis on practical charity gave rise to the development of systematic nursing and hospitals and the Church remains the single largest private provider of medical care and research facilities in the world. Following the Fall of Rome, monasteries and convents remained bastions of scholarship in Western Europe and clergymen were the leading scholars of the age – studying nature, mathematics, and the motion of the stars (largely for religious purposes). During the Middle Ages, the Church founded Europe's first universities, producing scholars like Robert Grosseteste, Albert the Great, Roger Bacon, and Thomas Aquinas, who helped establish the scientific method.

During this period, the Church was also a great patron of engineering for the construction of elaborate cathedrals. Since the Renaissance, Catholic scientists have been credited as fathers of a diverse range of scientific fields: Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (1744-1829) prefigured the theory of evolution with Lamarckism, Friar Gregor Mendel (1822-1884) pioneered genetics, and Fr Georges Lemaître (1894-1966) proposed the Big Bang cosmological model. The Jesuits have been particularly active, notably in astronomy. Church patronage of sciences continues through institutions like the Pontifical Academy of Sciences and Vatican Observatory.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch You are speaking very either or....
Either this is true
Or that is true.

I don’t write like you, I try to hunt down the truth even if it’s against me.

What you wrote here is accurate. Think of all that was destroyed as you say.

But Catholics never lifted a finger against JOHN Dee and other alchemist witches of his breed. Like Alister Crowley he was a genius working for the devil.

Unfortunately both truths are true as they are to this day among the elite.

Remember whereas you want me into the Catholic Church and reply in this incredibly naive rosy picture of the world,

All I want for you is to know the whole truth of everything.

Your next statement will be

Oh so you know the whole truth?

To which I will reply the framework of Gods revelation are in the pictures He designed .

The Feasts of the Jews
The Tabernacles

Until Catholics “ get” that in the Soirit rather than dressing up in frilly Levite outfits and just having a carnal understanding of everything, the more backward and stale they will remain, while the true church presses on in Jesus actual commission

To lead people into repentance
Go baptise them as conscious choice makers
And to see them filled with the Spirit

All the things Catholics don’t do, wheeling out the Table of Shewbread into the yard and saying here you are , take the Mass.

Cop out.

It’s like when God said to Saul
Sacrifice or religious type paraphernalia I haven’t desired , I require obedience.

The same thing that happened for Saul is destined for the Catholics if they carry on in disobedience
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Controversies and Scandals in the Church

Matt. 13:24-30 – scandals have always existed in the Church, just as they have existed outside of the Church. This should not cause us to lose hope in the Church. God’s mysterious plan requires the wheat and the weeds to be side by side in the Church until the end of time.

Matt. 13:47-50 – God’s plan is that the Church (the kingdom of heaven) is a net which catches fish of every kind, good and bad. God revealed this to us so that we will not get discouraged by the sinfulness of the Church’s members.

Matt. 16:18 – no matter how sinful its members conduct themselves, Jesus promised that the gates of death will never prevail against the Church.

Matt. 23:2-3 – the Jewish people would have always understood the difference between a person’s sinfulness and his teaching authority. We see that the sinfulness of the Pharisees does not minimize their teaching authority. They occupy the “cathedra” of Moses.

Matt. 26:70-72; Mark 14:68-70; Luke 22:57; John 18:25-27 – Peter denied Christ three times, yet he was chosen to be the leader of the Church, and taught and wrote infallibly.

Mark 14:45 – Judas was unfaithful by betraying Jesus. But his apostolic office was preserved and this did not weaken the Church.

Mark 14:50 – all of Jesus’ apostles were unfaithful by abandoning Him in the garden of Gethsemane, yet they are the foundation of the Church.

John 20:24-25 – Thomas the apostle was unfaithful by refusing to believe in Jesus’ resurrection, yet he taught infallibly in India.

Rom. 3:3-4 – unfaithful members do not nullify the faithfulness of God and the work of the Holy Spirit in the Church.

Eph. 5:25-27 – just as Jesus Christ has both a human and a divine nature, the Church, His Bride, is also both human and divine. It is the holy and spotless bride of Christ, with sinful human members.

1 Tim. 5:19 – Paul acknowledges Church elders might be unfaithful. The Church, not rebellion and schism, deals with these matters.

2 Tim. 2:13 – if we remain faithless, God remains faithful for He cannot deny Himself.

2 Tim. 2:20 – a great house has not only gold and silver, but also wood and earthenware, some for noble use, some for ignoble use.

Jer. 24:1-10 – God’s plan includes both good and bad figs. The good figs will be rewarded, and the bad figs will be discarded.

1 Kings 6,7,8 – the Lord commands us to build elaborate places of worship. Some non-Catholics think that this is controversial and the money should be given to the poor, even though no organization does more for the poor of the world that the Catholic Church. We create our churches with beauty because Christ our King lives in the churches in the blessed Eucharist.

Matt. 26:8-9; Mark 14:4-5; John 12:5 – negative comments concerning the beauty of the Church are like the disciples complaining about the woman anointing Jesus’ head with costly oil. Jesus desires that we honor Him with our best gifts, not for Him, but for us, so that we realize He is God and we are His creatures.

Matt. 26:10-11 – Jesus says we have both a duty to honor God and give to the poor – a balanced life of reverence and charity.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch How do you equate
Neither here on this mountain nor at Jerusalem, but people shall worship in Spirit and truth

With
The Lord commands us to build elaborate places of worship

Where does it say that?
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Since our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ came NOT to abolish the law and the prophets, but to FULFILL them (Matt 5:17), Jesus would recognize Catholic worship:

The view of Jesus as the simple country preacher does have some connection with the real Jesus, but we also have to remember that Jesus was a first century Jew. He would have been familiar with, and shared in the rituals and traditions of synagogue worship as well as the worship of the temple. What was this worship like? First of all, the synagogue worship was formal and liturgical. They used set prayers and established readings as Catholics do with their liturgy and tables of readings. Furthermore, the worship of the ‘domestic church’ for Jews was structured around seasons and feasts. Throughout the year, as Catholics do, they celebrated certain feast days and fast days. For the feasts they had structured, ceremonial meals that they shared together. These ceremonial meals consisted of set, written prayers and psalms and Scripture readings.

In addition to the worship of the domestic church and the synagogue the Jews in the time of Jesus all worshipped at the temple in Jerusalem. The worship in this splendid and ornate structure was predicated by the temple of Solomon which was in turn established according to the instructions given by God in Exodus for the construction of the tabernacle. The tabernacle, and both the Herodian and Solomonic temples in Jerusalem were splendid, ornate and rich buildings where the worship was ceremonial and ritualistic. The priests wore ornate vestments, there were ritualistic processions into and around the temple, ornate images of angels surround the worship space and incense was burned before God to symbolize the prayers of the faithful rising to heaven.
So would Jesus recognize the Catholic worship that goes on in the great cathedrals and Catholic churches? There are clearly differences between Catholic and Jewish worship, but think of the things Jesus would recognize:

1. Splendid, rich and ornate temple of God
2. Priests in rich vestments
3. Set readings from the Old Testament
4. the Chanting of psalms
5. the burning of incense
6. an altar of sacrifice
7. golden candlesticks
8. the bread of the presence
9. the holy of holies (the Catholic tabernacle)
10. the lamp of the presence
11. processions of priests and people
12. the offering of the holy sacrifice
13. The laver or font for cleansing the offerings
14. water fonts for ritual ablutions before entering worship
15. Beautiful decorations of fabrics, carvings and embroidery

More?

http://www.patheos.com/.../would-jesus-recognize-catholic...
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Would Jesus Recognize Catholic…
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Thanks by the way for honouring here all that I have ever said about Catholic worship as a complete return to Levitical worship.
But no thanks for not answering the question.
You are as bad as me after all.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Very interesting what happens when nobody is born again.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch We're all Born Again.

Born Again in Water Baptism

John 1:32 – when Jesus was baptized, He was baptized in the water and the Spirit, which descended upon Him in the form of a dove. The Holy Spirit and water are required for baptism. Also, Jesus’ baptism was not the Christian baptism He later instituted. Jesus’ baptism was instead a royal anointing of the Son of David (Jesus) conferred by a Levite (John the Baptist) to reveal Christ to Israel, as it was foreshadowed in 1 Kings 1:39 when the Son of David (Solomon) was anointed by the Levitical priest Zadok. See John 1:31; cf. Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:9; Luke 3:21.

John 3:3,5 – Jesus says, “Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” When Jesus said “water and the Spirit,” He was referring to baptism (which requires the use of water, and the work of the Spirit).

John 3:22 – after teaching on baptism, John says Jesus and the disciples did what? They went into Judea where the disciples baptized. Jesus’ teaching about being reborn by water and the Spirit is in the context of baptism.

John 4:1 – here is another reference to baptism which naturally flows from Jesus’ baptismal teaching in John 3:3-5.

Acts 8:36 – the eunuch recognizes the necessity of water for his baptism. Water and baptism are never separated in the Scriptures.

Acts 10:47 – Peter says “can anyone forbid water for baptizing these people..?” The Bible always links water and baptism.

Acts 22:16 – Ananias tells Saul, “arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins.” The “washing away” refers to water baptism.

Titus 3:5-6 – Paul writes about the “washing of regeneration,” which is “poured out on us” in reference to water baptism. “Washing” (loutron) generally refers to a ritual washing with water.

Heb. 10:22 – the author is also writing about water baptism in this verse. “Having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.” Our bodies are washed with pure water in water baptism.

2 Kings 5:14 – Naaman dipped himself seven times in the Jordan, and his flesh was restored like that of a child. This foreshadows the regenerative function of baptism, by water and the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 44:3 – the Lord pours out His water and His Spirit. Water and the Spirit are linked to baptism. The Bible never separates them.

Ezek. 36:25-27 – the Lord promises He will sprinkle us with water to cleanse us from sin and give us a new heart and spirit. Paul refers to this verse in Heb. 10:22. The teaching of Ezekiel foreshadows the salvific nature of Christian baptism instituted by Jesus and taught in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Catholics and Protestants agree that to be saved, you have to be born again. Jesus said so: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

When a Catholic says that he has been "born again," he refers to the transformation that God’s grace accomplished in him during baptism. Evangelical Protestants typically mean something quite different when they talk about being "born again."

For an Evangelical, becoming "born again" often happens like this: He goes to a crusade or a revival where a minister delivers a sermon telling him of his need to be "born again."

"If you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and believe he died for your sins, you’ll be born again!" says the preacher. So the gentleman makes "a decision for Christ" and at the altar call goes forward to be led in "the sinner’s prayer" by the minister. Then the minister tells all who prayed the sinner’s prayer that they have been saved—"born again."

But is the minister right? Not according to the Bible.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch That’s one hell of a shocker to see
“ came not to abolish the law and the prophets but to fulfil them” used as a justification for Catholic return to Levitical worship.

I have never seen anybody twist that scripture in that direction. Wow.
Clever.
1
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "Catholic worship as a complete return to Levitical worship."

Not return to...the fulfillment of.

Catholicism is the completion of the Jewish religion. Had all of the Jews of Jesus’ time accepted him as the Messiah and entered the Church, there would have continued to be one true religion. But because Jesus of Nazareth was not accepted as the Messiah by the majority of the Jews of his time, a split occurred. Pre-Christian Judaism was the true religion; post-Christian Judaism is an incomplete religion because it lacks recognition of the Messiah it anticipates.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Now let’s answer the question.

How do you equate John 4 s Statements with what you have written
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch "...for salvation is from the Jews"?
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch And the parody of the sentence of “ fulfilment “ of would look something like this:

Jesus took 12 to the Levitical raiment shop and girded them out with the correct clothes.
He then bought all the correct scents and made for them various offering containers and being an ex carpenter instructed them all in how to put up a wooden church building.
For three and a half years he taught the disciples about the new updated Levitical worship in buildings. When they could recite the correct things He declared “ no more do I call you servants but friends. Let’s invite people to visit”

~~~~~

The question above restated was how do you equate
Neither on this mountain nor at Jerusalem shall the people worship but they shall worship me in spirit and truth
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch No clue what you are trying to say...did Jesus fulfill the Old Covenant and bring it into the New Covenant...the LAST Covenant?
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch God fulfills (not replaces) His Covenants He has made with us:

-First, is God's covenant with Adam and Eve.
-Second is God's covenant made with Noah and his family.
-Third is the God's Covenant made with Abram
-Fourth is God's Covenant made with Moses
-Fifth is God's Covenant made with David

-Sixth is the Covenant promised through Jeremiah, fulfilled by Jesus Christ

Notice how the family form progressed with each of God's six covenants - Man and wife, family, tribe, nation, kingdom, universal worldwide kingdom. What God is doing here is not only building up man's relationship to Him using signs and other humans, he is revealing more and more of Himself to us with each and every covenant, until at last He has revealed Himself fully in Jesus Christ. Sadly, man broke each covenant and had to endure the curses associated with each one. But God has been true to each one of His covenants with us, and that is really good news for us all.

So now that you know you can belong to the universal (Catholic) worldwide Kingdom, you can being true to your part of the last covenant, namely, living a Christian life following baptism and consuming the Eucharist!
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Chris Welch No clue what you are trying to say...did Jesus fulfill the Old Covenant and bring it into the New Covenant...the LAST Covenant?

That’s probably the truest thing you have said yet.…See more
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Nonsense, of course I am born again and have a personal experience and relationship with Christ. We also believe Christ heal my Wife so that we can have Children and healed our Marriage. All made possible by Jesus Christ and His Church.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Your ramblings make sense to you because you interpret things on your own personal authority.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch It is possible that anybody in any walk is born again, even Mormons . But as people grow and follow the Spirit , if they were in previous frameworks , they choose for the Spirit.
If people have a real crisis and call on the Name of the Lord in sincerit…See more
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Do you see the clever way the devil has paralysed all forms of baptism ? Even the correct ones

It’s all had the DAvid and New Cart automisation process . One doesn’t need God.…See more
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You asked: "what is Christ building?"

THE CHURCH...for almost 2,000 years now.

The Church is Visible and One

Matt. 5:14 – Jesus says a city set on a hill cannot be hidden, and this is in reference to the Church. The Church is not an invisible, ethereal, atmospheric presence, but a single, visible and universal body through the Eucharist. The Church is an extension of the Incarnation.

Matt. 12:25; Mark 3:25; Luke 11:17 – Jesus says a kingdom divided against itself is laid waste and will not stand. This describes Protestantism and the many thousands of denominations that continue to multiply each year.

Matt. 16:18 – Jesus says, “I will build my ‘Church’ (not churches).” There is only one Church built upon one Rock with one teaching authority, not many different denominations, built upon various pastoral opinions and suggestions.

Matt. 16:19; 18:18 – Jesus gave the apostles binding and loosing authority. But this authority requires a visible Church because “binding and loosing” are visible acts. The Church cannot be invisible, or it cannot bind and loose.

John 10:16 – Jesus says there must only be one flock and one shepherd. This cannot mean many denominations and many pastors, all teaching different doctrines. Those outside the fold must be brought into the Church.

John 17:11,21,23 – Jesus prays that His followers may be perfectly one as He is one with the Father. Jesus’ oneness with the Father is perfect. It can never be less. Thus, the oneness Jesus prays for cannot mean the varied divisions of Christianity that have resulted since the Protestant reformation. There is perfect oneness only in the Catholic Church.

John 17:9-26 – Jesus’ prayer, of course, is perfectly effective, as evidenced by the miraculous unity of the Catholic Church during her 2,000 year history.

John 17:21 – Jesus states that the visible unity of the Church would be a sign that He was sent by God. This is an extremely important verse. Jesus tells us that the unity of the Church is what bears witness to Him and the reality of who He is and what He came to do for us. There is only one Church that is universally united, and that is the Catholic Church. Only the unity of the Catholic Church truly bears witness to the reality that Jesus Christ was sent by the Father.

Rom. 15:5 – Paul says that we as Christians must live in harmony with one another. But this can only happen if there is one Church with one body of faith. This can only happen by the charity of the Holy Spirit who dwells within the Church.

Rom. 16:17 – Paul warns us to avoid those who create dissensions and difficulties. This includes those who break away from the Church and create one denomination after another. We need to avoid their teaching, and bring them back into the one fold of Christ.

1 Cor. 1:10- Paul prays for no dissensions and disagreements among Christians, being of the same mind and the same judgment. How can Protestant pastors say that they are all of the same mind and the same judgment on matters of faith and morals?

Eph. 1:22-23; 5:23-32; Col. 1:18,24 – again, the Church does not mean “invisible” unity, because Paul called it the body (not the soul) of Christ. Bodies are visible, and souls are invisible.

Eph. 4:11-14 – God gives members of the Church various gifts in order to attain to the unity of the faith. This unity is only found in the Catholic Church.

Eph. 4:3-5 – we are of one body, one Spirit, one faith and one baptism. This requires doctrinal unity, not 30,000 different denominations.

Eph. 5:25 – the Church is the Bride of Christ. Jesus has only one Bride, not many.

Eph. 5:30; Rom. 12:4-5; 1 Cor. 6:15 – we, as Christians, are one visible body in Christ, not many bodies, many denominations.

Phil. 1:27 – Paul commands that we stand firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the Gospel.

Phil. 2:2 – Paul prays that Christians be of the same mind, of one accord. Yet there are 30,000 different “Protest”ant denominations?

Col. 1:18 – Christ is the Head of the one body, the Church. He is not the Head of many bodies or many sects.

1 Tim. 6:4 – Paul warns about those who seek controversy and disputes about words. There must be a universal authority to appeal to who can trace its authority back to Christ.

2 Tim. 2:14 – do not dispute about words which only ruin the hearers. Two-thousand years of doctrinal unity is a sign of Christ’s Church.

2 Tim. 4:3 – this is a warning on following our own desires and not the teachings of God. It is not a cafeteria where we pick and choose. We must humble ourselves and accept all of Christ’s teachings which He gives us through His Church.

Rev. 7:9 – the heavenly kingdom is filled with those from every nation and from all tribes, peoples and tongues. This is “catholic,” which means universal.

1 Peter 3:8 – Peter charges us to have unity of spirit. This is impossible unless there is a central teaching authority given to us by God.

Gen. 12:2-3 – since Abram God said all the families of the earth shall be blessed. This family unity is fulfilled only in the Catholic Church.

Dan. 7:14 – Daniel prophesies that all peoples, nations and languages shall serve His kingdom. Again, this catholicity is only found in the Catholic Church.

1 Cor. 14:33 – God cannot be the author of the Protestant confusion. Only the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church claims and proves to be Christ’s Church.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch The Early Church...the Catholic Church...knew what being Born Again meant:

“Born Again” Means Water Baptism

For Christ also said, ‘Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.’ Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers’ wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: ‘Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well…And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow…And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the layer the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone…And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed.” Justin Martyr, First Apology, 61 (A.D. 110-165).

“Moreover, the things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this also might be a sign of men’s being destined to receive repentance and remission of sins, through the water and laver of regeneration,–as many as come to the truth, and are born again, and receive blessing from God.” Theopilus of Antioch, To Autolycus, 2:16 (A.D. 181).
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Born again means water baptism is fundamentally incorrect
“ washing does not save us”
Romans 10…See more
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch 1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

– Peter expressly writes that “baptism, corresponding to Noah’s ark, now saves you; not as a removal of dirt from the body, but for a clear conscience. “ Hence, the verse demonstrates that baptism is salvific (it saves us), and deals with the interior life of the person (purifying the conscience, like Heb. 10:22), and not the external life (removing dirt from the body). Many scholars believe the phrase “not as a removal of dirt from the body” is in reference to the Jewish ceremony of circumcision (but, at a minimum, shows that baptism is not about the exterior, but interior life). Baptism is now the “circumcision” of the new Covenant (Col. 2:11-12), but it, unlike the old circumcision, actually saves us, as Noah and his family were saved by water.

Again, notice the parallel between Heb. 10:22 and 1 Peter 3:21: (1) Heb. 10:22 – draw near to the sanctuary (heaven) / 1 Peter 3:21 – now saves us. (2) Heb. 10:22 – sprinkled clean, washed with pure water / 1 Peter 3:20-21 – saved through water, baptism. (3) Heb. 10:22 – from an evil conscience (interior) / 1 Peter 3:21 – for a clear conscience (interior). Titus 3:6 and 1 Peter 3:21 also specifically say the grace and power of baptism comes “through Jesus Christ” (who transforms our inner nature).
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "“ washing does not save us”
Romans 10"…See more
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Baptism as Peter says is an appeal...
It’s a signing of our signature to make things ours as I wrote

It cannot save us as it says as an action, but together with the faith mechanisms of Romans 10

Hear the Word
Believe in your heart
Confess with your mouth

That’s what saves us.

And baptism “ aids the clear conscience” because we know we have properly signed up to the covenants
to my own death in Christ
To my own resurrection in Christ.

There is so much going on there, and so many are baptised in the Spirit right there on re emerging out of the water as Christ was,
And as my friend was at her and my baptism.
I had been baptised in the Spirit one or two months before. She spoke in Polish, a language she never learned. A visiting Polish speaker came to the front to say what she said.

This is why we absolutely refuse infant baptism because it jeopardises all these realities of grace from being released at the right time.

It is actually the work of the devil to destroy the church on earth, because nobody actually gets born again, they invent doctrines such as Justine wrote
Baptism equals being born again.

The guy is an idiot.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Josh Mills is a forerunner. He is an extreme version of me.

When he plays keyboard the anointing on him manifests in extraordinary ways.

Typically heavenly gold will fall like dust over the whole congregation.
Or manna.
Or small real jewels.

When I used to lead worship at Exeter university I went from just another member of the Christian Union , and they wanted to make me President.

My songs are in songbooks, some in Britain some across the earth. God doesn’t let me know and apart from one which is copyright I have no knowing where the others are. Someone in Australia visiting said he liked my songs, and I hadn’t a clue how he knew them.

But I just bring this up because like the Bible says
Sing a new song

And don’t get drunk but be filled with the Spirit and sing new songs

They have always been the currency of doing things the way the Bible says.

Until I was Spirit baptised I don’t think I knew I was even particularly musical.

Probably the same for Josh Mills.

You could be spouting your theology which is twisted in very clever ways,
And maybe some other speaker could be speaking an equally extreme leftbrain wind if doctrine,
But the anointing in me or Josh Mills or Don Moen would break the theology in two, so only the Presence of God was in the room and Jesus would be teaching people direct into their hearts.

That’s why when you talk about loads of denominations being a problem, thstbis such a stupid statement.

As long as people are in the leftbrain they can only handle so many points of doctrine, and in the Spirit there are so many paradoxes by the time they are converted into leftbrain speech....
It’s impossible for the carnal mind.

That’s why the Bible is clear

We maintain the unity of the Spirit which is a gift and comes whenever Jesus comes into a gathering....

We maintain that until everybody has risen in their spirits to the unity of the faith.

At that time you won’t be writing ridiculous things like

Oh that’s only your opinion or your version of the Bible.

Crap. This I am writing is 50 years of gold dust, layer upon layer as Jesus has come among us and taught us.

You have a problem with my doctrine. Go to the Troublemaker Himself, or learn how to meditate upon the Word and His dwelling places as DAvid did.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch You stated: "But the anointing in me or Josh Mills or Don Moen would break the theology in two, so only the Presence of God was in the room and Jesus would be teaching people direct into their hearts."

See...PRIDE!

Jude 3 Beloved, being very eager to write to you of our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith WHICH WAS ONCE FOR ALL DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS.

Your newfangled thoughts and feelings doesn't change what has always been True...no matter how warm and fuzzy.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Sacred Scripture warns the individual to avoid "private interpretation" (2 Peter 1:20-21) because it may lead to his "own destruction" (2 Peter 3:15-17). For it is not our personal interpretation of the Bible that leads to truth (Proverbs 3:5-6), but the Holy Spirit guiding THE CHURCH (John 16:13), the "pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Timothy 3:15), who then reveals it to the world (Ephesians 3:10).
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Lol.
Time you knew the Lord and got some gifting.…See more
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Truth is inherited, not created with each passing generation.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Try telling that to Jesus when He is speaking Rhema Word.

Man you are ignorant
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Rhema never contravenes Logos, but it may or may not become practice.

Have you noticed that there haven’t been many three storey boats built by the people of God lately?

That was Rhema.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Had Noah been born today some Catholic bishop or yourself would have instructed him that it wasn’t church tradition.

That’s why what you are writing is complete crap.…See more
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch But Noah wasn't born today...that's why he is part of Salvation History...ALL of Sacred Scripture, both Old and New Testaments are summed up in the Person of Jesus Christ...the Word of God.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Noah is part of Sacred Tradition.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Jesus Christ is the King of the Kingdom, the Head of the Body, the Bridegroom of the Bride...He all of those things as the Head of the almost 2,000 year old One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church He Himself established.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch If you have conjure up nonsense that I "might do"...you've lost the argument.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch If you ever are to become a functioning Christian
You are going to have to have some sort of crisis meeting where you ask Jesus into your life
Where you make Him Lord
Where you ask Him to fill you with the Spirit ,
And whatever gifts he gives you, you will have to learn to be as offhand about them as I am, because at the end of the day they are just gifts, not Jesus glorious Person Himself.

You will have to learn to live from Rhema Word and learn the obedience of the faith like all of us since Abraham.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch I was thinking this morning comparing how the Catholics use Eucharist with the first Passover
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch The first thing the Jews had to do was daub sheep blood on door frames....

Then came the unleavened Bread aspect , which later was Manna.

Then came the baptism in Red Sea
When they were baptised “ into the congregation of Moses and under the pillar of fire and under the Cloud.

The imagery is very exact.....
They share in the Lambs flesh, but the blood was their passport out, and also saved the firstborn of their house.

Unleavened Bread or Manna is like the Rhema Word that they had to obey Now.

Tradition of men
The leaven of Pharisees is teaching that has been corrupted by the fallen mind. It has no life in it any more.

Every denomination has this dead stuff even the new churches.
It’s stuff that God is nolonger in any more.

Like Jews forcing everybody to have Coffeemate in Sunday’s with their Sunday joint.

A complete distortion of thou shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.

Catholicism is also filled with the leaven of Pharisees, things that are nolonger relevant or perhaps never true
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch As I have written many times, Jesus had no compunction about announcing
I would have gathered you like a hen gathers her chicks,
but because you would not I am giving the Kingdom to a nation bearing the fruit thereof.

Now if He says that to Jews of the Covenant , imagine with what ease He says that to Catholics setting themselves up as the true Church and the true lineage of Popes, which Jesus never set up.

Everything in the New Covenant is exactly as the New Covenant describes

They shall all know Me from the least to the greatest and shall nolonger say to one another know the Lord.

My sheep hear My voice.

And about the Church He says an enemy will sow seed by night and weeds will grow along side the good seed.

But he warned the church
Be careful in the day of testing that no bitterness spring up

Make sure you have what it takes to

Build a whole tower

Or wage a complete army campaign

Speaking of “ falling like a seed into the ground , dying and becoming a fruitbearing plant”

Each individual in the Kingdom must take up their Cross and go this way.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Just more personal opinion.

The Kingdom=The Body of Christ=The Bride of Christ=the almost 2,000 year old Church....the Catholic Church.

Just Salvation History.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch The Kingdom is defined.
Catholic definition is faulty.
No more than faulty.…See more
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Just more angry opinion.

Pouring and Sprinkling versus Immersion

Ezek. 36:25 – Ezekiel prophesies that God “will ‘sprinkle’ clean water on you and you shall be clean.” The word for “sprinkle” is “rhaino” which means what it says, sprinkle (not immersion). (“Kai rhaino eph hymas hydor katharon.”)

2 Kings 5:14 – Namaan went down and dipped himself in the Jordan. The Greek word for “dipped” is “baptizo.” Here, baptizo means immersion. But many Protestant churches argue that “baptizo” and related tenses of the Greek word always mean immersion, and therefore the Catholic baptisms of pouring or sprinkling water over the head are invalid. The Scriptures disprove their claim.

Num. 19:18 – here, the verbs for dipping (“baptisantes”) and sprinkled (“bapsei”) refers to affusion (pouring) and sprinkling (aspersion), not immersion.

Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16 -John the Baptist prophesied that Jesus will baptize (“baptisei”) with the Holy Spirit and fire. In this case, “baptisei” refers to a “pouring” out over the head. This is confirmed by Matt. 3:16 where the Holy Spirit descends upon Jesus’ head like a dove and Acts 2:3-4 where the Holy Spirit descended upon Mary and the apostles’ heads in the form of tongues of fire. In each case, in fulfilling John the Baptist’s prophecy, the Lord baptized (“baptizo”) in the form of pouring out His Spirit upon the head, not immersing the person.

Matt. 20:22-23; Mark 10:38-39; Luke 12:50 – Jesus also talks about His baptism (from “baptizo”) of blood, which was shed and sprinkled in His passion. But this baptism does not (and cannot) mean immersion.

Mark 7:3 – the Pharisees do not eat unless they wash (“baptizo” ) their hands. This demonstrates that “baptizo” does not always mean immersion. It can mean pouring water over something (in this case, over their hands).

Mark 7:4 – we see that the Jews washed (“bapto” from baptizo) cups, pitchers and vessels, but this does not mean that they actually immersed these items. Also, some manuscripts say the Jews also washed (bapto) couches, yet they did not immerse the couches, they only sprinkled them.

Luke 11:38 – Jesus had not washed (“ebaptisthe”) His hands before dinner. Here, the derivative of “baptizo” just means washing up, not immersing.

Acts 2:41 – at Peter’s first sermon, 3,000 were baptized. There is archeological proof that immersion would have been impossible in this area. Instead, these 3,000 people had to be sprinkled in water baptism.

Acts 8:38 – because the verse says they “went down into the water,” many Protestants say this is proof that baptism must be done by immersion. But the verb to describe Phillip and the eunuch going down into the water is the same verb (“katabaino”) used in Acts 8:26 to describe the angel’s instruction to Phillip to stop his chariot and go down to Gaza. The word has nothing to do with immersing oneself in water.

Acts 8:39 – because the verse says “they came up out of the water,” many Protestants also use this verse to prove that baptism must be done by immersion. However, the Greek word for “coming up out of the water” is “anebesan” which is plural. The verse is describing that both Phillip and the eunuch ascended out of the water, but does not prove that they were both immersed in the water. In fact, Phillip could not have baptized the eunuch if Phillip was also immersed. Finally, even if this was a baptism by immersion, the verse does not say that baptism by immersion is the only way to baptize.

Acts 9:18; 22:16 – Paul is baptized while standing up in the house of Judas. There is no hot tub or swimming pool for immersion. This demonstrates that Paul was sprinkled.

Acts 10:47-48 – Peter baptized in the house of Cornelius, even though hot tubs and swimming pools were not part of homes. Those in the house had to be sprinkled.

Acts 16:33 – the baptism of the jailer and his household appears to be in the house, so immersion is not possible.

Acts 2:17,18,33 – the pouring of water is like the “pouring” out of the Holy Spirit. Pouring is also called “infusion” (of grace).

1 Cor. 10:2 – Paul says that the Israelites were baptized (“baptizo”) in the cloud and in the sea. But they could not have been immersed because Exodus 14:22 and 15:9 say that they went dry shod. Thus, “baptizo” does not mean immersed in these verses.

Eph. 4:5 – there is only one baptism, just as there is only one Lord and one faith. Once a person is validly baptized by water and the Spirit in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit with the intention of the Church (whether by pouring or immersion), there is no longer a need to rebaptize the person.

Titus 3:6 – the “washing of regeneration” (baptism) is “poured out” upon us. This “pouring out” generally refers to the pouring of baptismal waters over the head of the newly baptized.

Heb. 6:2 – on the doctrine of baptisms (the word used is “baptismos”) which generally referred to pouring and not immersion.

Heb. 10:22 – the author writes, “with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience.” This “sprinkling” of baptism refers to aspersion, not immersion. The text also parallels 1 Peter 3:21, which expressly mentions baptism and its ability to, like Heb. 10:22, purify the conscience (the interior disposition of a person).

Isaiah 44:3 – the Lord “pours” water on the thirsty land and “pours” His Spirit upon our descendants. The Lord is “pouring,” not “immersing.”

2 Thess. 2:15 – hold fast to the tradition of the Church, whether oral or written. Since the time of Christ, baptisms have been done by pouring or sprinkling.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch I'll be praying for you and all my separated Brothers and Sisters.

Prayer for the Reconciliation of Protestants

Almighty Father, Creator of Heaven, Earth, and all that dwells within both realms, we, the faithful lament the loss of our brothers and sisters in Christ from full commuion in His Church. Thus we pray with open minds, outstretched arms, and sorrowful hearts that our fellow Christians may experience reconciliation with the Holy Church. We pray for the souls of Martin Luther, John Calvin, and all Protestant leaders who denied Your Church. We pray for not only the spirits of our Catholic brethren, but for all Christians who have passed from this world. Lord God, Most Understanding and Merciful, your only Son was condemned to agonizing death at the hands of evil men so that we may be delivered intoeternal life. Let not schism and suspicion taint Your servants. Instead, allow us to celebrate Your appointed Mass as one joyful Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Amen.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Man, so much of your life and energies are wasted because you just can’t see Jesus.Everybody needs prayer, but the foundation upon which you pray has to be accurate in the Spirit.

While crucifying Jesus, the Pharisees and Sadducees were praying for the souls they were crucifying.
Imagine that kind of haughtiness.
Jews praying for the soul of Jesus the very weekend of the Passover. Praying that He be joined to their communion, while He was taking all of them and us in Himself into death that we may live.
This is the power of dead religion based on leftbrain principles and not rooted in genuine knowledge of the Holy Spirit.
Before I was converted properly I was an atheist from 12 -13.
And up to 12 I was METHODIST and would have joined in all their prayers made in their Genesis 3 separation consciousness, and just wouldn’t have known any better.
When my school friend asked me
You say you are a Christian, are you born again?
I got as angry as you.
And in my case I spent a year doubting everything. But it led also to a terrible terrible depression.
So when I heard Billy Graham’s message if salvation and sensed the Presence of God in His gatherings and in the hall where we as many young people were watching the films,I was ready for the genuine gospel of His Presence and the simple believing of what it says in the Bible.
And for nearly 50 years I have followed that Presence and Light, and our generation in Gods Light have seen more Light according to his psalm 36 promise.
I will ask the 2500 friends to pray that you are born again and baptised in the Spirit so you can begin to follow Him and be a son of God.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch This is what those 2500 that see it and want to join in will be praying

Please pray for John Reynolds that he have an encounter with the real Jesus Christ in order that he grows fast and becomes a functional member of the Kingdom, that unless you are born again, you cannot even see.
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Thanks for the prayers!!!
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John Reynolds
John Reynolds Chris Welch Say whatever you like...I've given HUNDREDS of references to Sacred Scripture...you've just given your opinion.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch John if you knew more you would recognise how accurate I am.
It’s part of your ignorance that in front of the whole internet and open to all my 2500 should they bother to look, you are prepared to regurgitate crap like
“ I have not come to abolish the law and the prophets but to fulfil them “ and this means the rolling out of Levitical worship in glorious stone buildings.

If you knew your Bible you would know this absolutely is not what is meant. The very opposite.

50 years is a lot of Bible Reading and waiting in the Holy Spirit. And thousands and thousands of Spiritfilled preaching.

You quoted the verses
Your sins are as scarlet they shall be white as snow. Unless you are with Jews you wouldn’t know this is talking about leprosy advancing, which makes a lot more sense than sin ever be gleaming white like a Colgate smile.

You simply have to realise like Mormonism and Scientology and JWs , you are in a manmade cult whose teaching doesnt work across the whole Bible as theirs doesn’t either.
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Chris Welch

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