Saturday 13 November 2010

OCD Church : Believing yourself "into" something you should be believing out from.

Obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD) is an anxiety disorder characterized by intrusive thoughts that produce uneasiness, apprehension, fear, or worry, by repetitive behaviors aimed at reducing anxiety, or by a combination of such thoughts (obsessions) and behaviors (compulsions). Symptoms may include repetitive handwashing; extensive hoarding; preoccupation with sexual or aggressive impulses, or with particular religious beliefs; aversion to odd numbers; and nervous habits, such as opening a door and closing it a certain number of times before one enters or leaves a room. These symptoms can be alienating and time-consuming, and often cause severe emotional and financial distress. The acts of those who have OCD may appear paranoid and come across to others as psychotic. However, OCD sufferers generally recognize their thoughts and subsequent actions as irrational, and they may become further distressed by this realization.

OCD is the fourth-most-common mental disorder, and is diagnosed nearly as often as asthma and diabetes mellitus.[1] In the United States, one in 50 adults has OCD.[2] The phrase "obsessive–compulsive" has become part of the English lexicon, and is often used in an informal or caricatured manner to describe someone who is meticulous, perfectionistic, absorbed in a cause, or otherwise fixated on something or someone.[3] Although these signs may be present in OCD, a person who exhibits them does not necessarily have OCD, and may instead have obsessive–compulsive personality disorder (OCPD), an autism spectrum disorder, or no clinical condition.

Codependency or codependence is a tendency to behave in overly passive or excessively caretaking ways that negatively impact one's relationships and quality of life. It also often involves putting one's needs at a lower priority than others while being excessively preoccupied with the needs of others. [1] Codependency can occur in any type of relationship, including in families, at work, in friendships, and also in romantic, peer or community relationships.[1] Codependency may also be characterized by denial, low self-esteem, excessive compliance, and/or control patterns.[1]

Codependency describes behavior, thoughts and feelings that go beyond normal kinds of self-sacrifice or care taking. For example parenting is a role that requires a certain amount of self-sacrifice and giving a child's needs a high priority, although a parent could nevertheless still be codependent towards their own children if the care taking or parental sacrifice reached unhealthy or destructive levels.[1] Generally a parent who takes care of their own needs (emotional and physical) in a healthy way will be a better caretaker, whereas a codependent parent may be less effective, or may even do harm to a child.[1]

Codependency does not refer to all caring behavior or feelings, but only those that are excessive to an unhealthy degree.[2]

The dictionary definition of codependency differs, in that it requires one person to be physically or psychologically addicted, such as to heroin, and the second person to be psychologically dependent on that behavior. [3]

Chris Welch Facebook clips w/c 8th Nov 2010
‎"Doctor,I've got prayer OCD. Please help."
"How does it show?"
"I'm a struggling alone-me trying to break through to God. I'm with a group of friends who have the same problem."

‎"What you are part of Prayer Anonymous?"

"No,we're all still co-dependent."
"That's serious"
"Yes doctor.We pray for our prayer meetings.Sometimes we pray for our prayer meetings about our revival meetings.I have to sing and pray for a certain amount of time or I go out of the Spirit and things go wrong."
"How about your friends and family?"
"Oh,they fit round the OCD."
‎"I see...."

"Thing is,praying to a separate "out there" kind of God is so hard.I mean how do you know you have done enough?When will He be pleased enough with me?We're trying to heap enough words like the Gentiles do to get a revival going."
"Do you ever feel you've broken through?"
"Yes,wonderfully so. But I can't live there, so I begin the cycle all over again."

"Do you know anything about the gospel at all?"
"Yes.I know I'm poor and wretched and God is way out there and I have to work very hard in prayer to reach Him.I have soaking CDs in my car.I have sermons and prayer aids and I have a whole bunch of co -OCD people helping me?"
"Did no one lay a proper foundation of the true gospel in any of you?"

Chris Welch There's a time when you lose your religion to gain the Living Christ, but putting off the glittering clothing may be the hardest thing you ever suffer in your life.

Linda Novek Oh yes...and not in leaving the dead doing behind, but in what your loved ones think, who are still engrained! Hard to be, "labeled", like a traitor or something. But I understand where they are, of course.

Chris Welch Actually,as horrible as it sounds...part of the glittering clothing is "that part of us" that has been relating with" that part of them". Most times...not always, we receive them back in a resurrection form , days,months years later.And if not, hundreds or thousands of new people to fill the void!!!!This is especially true in our day as we see masses crawling out of the woodwork...............OF THE CROSS.


Chris Welch I nearly never have times of prayer.I certainly have as little as possible to do with OCD prayer,Why? Because as a born again son of God ,I AM prayer.Jesus is that in me.If He is not that in you yet,He soon will be...believe in the power of that Jesus life within you,forming the same Person in you as in me.

Judy Lawrence yep, can't be anything else. Blessings to you Chris.

Allen Mills obsessive compulsive disorder prayer, prayer based on illogical fears and assumptions, and worry. an ocd prayer has no faith in it.
2 Timothy 1:7
God has not given us a spirit of fear, but a spirit of power, of love, and a sound mind.

Chris Welch Allen,OCD prayers are when the "activity" takes over from the spirit reality.Gentiles heap up their prayers. We are told to enter our inner room and meet with our Daddy God there.We "shut"our door to the ceaseless brain traffic that keeps chuntering on with sense information about how bad things are and how pointless it is communing with the God of the Universe. But precisely in this place of Union do we receive the secrets that we then "faith into being" and later shout from the rooftops.Like a baby originating from 2 cells....these things grow and burst forth into material manifestation! You can see a real world example if you listen to the 1989 3rd level message...then see what's happening on the net 20 years later.

(much of this last statement comes from Ed Miller).



It seems strange to be writing in quite a negative way, but a very similar way to Gerald Coates,George Tarleton,David Mansell, John Noble, Maurice Smith, just some of the London house church leaders of the early to mid 70s. In 'Fulness' magazine and various booklets and books the prophetic word went out that we should meet "to purpose". That God was a God of purpose, and we should be sensitive to His voice and meet together in this purpose.

Ofcourse, now things are more subtle. The ways of the Spirit have now become this lethal mix of Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil behaviour systems and genuine Holy Spirit activity.

From David Swan "Moving Into the Holy of Holies"
Those at the Holy Place level may occasionally achieve some spiritual exploits. This middle stage (the Holy Place level) also speaks of the soulish realm and a mixture of the flesh and the spirit. At times, the spirit comes forth beautifully where upon it blesses, but at other times, the ugly flesh is manifested too, AND DOES HARM. This half flesh and half spirit is typified by Ishmael! This soulish mixture is not your final destination as it is impure and imperfect.
God DETESTS and ABHORS such mixture. Leviticus 19:19 warns against such mixture and compromises: " you shall keep My statutes" You shall not let your livestock breed with another kind. You shall not sow your field with mixed seed. Nor shall a garment of mixed linen and wool come upon you".

This mixed level is not your final destination. If you want to move from the soul level to the spirit level and if you want to do great exploits for God, you must go beyond the Holy Place.END

OCD Church is made up of repetitive activities for the sake of the activity.Gentiles heap up words etc
People soon learn that there is "some sort of high" to be obtained by singing certain songs.
OCD Church recognizes that by having prayer meetings about everything (at this Spirit-filled level) they can just about be guaranteed some success in everything undertaken. They are like Jacob mechanically "using " faith to draw in speckled and striped sheep, through special spiritual techniques.
OCD Church people have no clear identity about who they are. When not actively engaged in spiritual issues and wellworn pathways they quickly "revert" to relating according to who they still think they are. An evangelist visited a conference of ours and one of the worship group, during the session break, quickly asked the evangelist to lay hands on him to receive more of this evangelistic gift and anointing. He sank immediately to the floor. Totally oblivious to what was happening two feet away, the rest of the worship group guffawed and japed through lunch. For them, this was a time to refresh and recharge and just have a good time in order to be ready to lead the next session. All of them are used to this form of prayer and have been there themselves, so i guess did not think anything of it. I felt extreme dispeace about this though.

OCD Church people use prayer as a kind of building up enough water behind a dam in order that hopefully one day the dam will burst. This blindfolded dart players method is used for praying and believing for
some vague revival
some sense of personal breakthrough
for believing themselves somehow into some transformation of the Cross
for the death of the Old Man
for some kind of anointing
that some day they will have a ministry like their dear leadership, when the fact that they are praying in this ludicrous way calls into question the very ministry of their leadership
for some unity to come
for a more successful life and relationships

OCD churches cannot be addressed in a mature way, and ministries must pick their way through half-beliefs and half truths to try and get to the bottom of what Spirit foundation has actually been laid.

"Hereafter we see no man after the flesh" reads we see every man and woman after the flesh.

OCD Churches do not understand these things

that we have died with Christ, the struggle is over.

the Two Goats, and the fact there is no independent self-operated self

that meetings are part of one seamless life flow of the Indwelling Christ -they only identify Christ as a particular feeling in a meeting.

they do not understand about the " freefall of faith" and losing control

OCD Churches are typified by

repeated prayer yielding no or few results in healing and the miraculous

controlling religious spirits that cut right across the Lord Jesus Christ bringing His glory

lack of recognition of Spirit normality, because it just isnt wacky or freaky many would have recognised Rees Howells in the street? Yet in terms of prayer at least, is credited with the serious overthrow of the dictators in the Second World War. Yes I know others prayed but we know of no others that were groomed over decades particularly for this specific task by the Holy Spirit.

OCD churches dont realise that the very "light within them " is it turns out darkness. This praying to a distant "out there God" compulsively repeatedly fruitlessly, is all part of the "delusion of separation" since the Fall. The very prayer activity is the RELIGIOUS WING of this separation.

OCD churches place too high an emphasis on meetings and nearly none on the "right believing and seeing " of members for all the other hours in the week. This actually keeps the OCD church higher on the agenda than it should be in terms of Christ's overall activities in the earth, because people are unable to live properly without it. There is an absolutely fruitless relationship going on between members, church and leadership, that helps to keep members co-dependant and never growing much, while ensuring the continued payment of professional leadership, who are in fact doing the opposite of what they are called to do....

bring forth Christ in their flock.

OCD Churches are vague about everything so that no one can ever accuse them of failing.Real faith is specific and demands a leadership who are prepared to put their neck on the line.

OCD churches often run programmes on this and programmes on that...not realising that at the end of the day it's the same old scriptures that have to be believed ON, for a certain while until they are confirmed as firm inner believing and knowing by the Spirit. Romans 6,7 and 8 are every bit as real a process as the belief in and the receiving of the baptism of the Spirit.

OCD Churches limit themselves to the Blood of Christ, having no clue about "eating the Body of Christ" and the meaning of the Body death of Christ. Singing songs about forgiveness each week and going no further doctrinally is a very similar religious loop to the Catholics attending confession, and to the Anglicans going through the almost identical subject matter in their liturgy.

It further confirms this repetitive activity of "going to Church" rather than the words of Jesus:

neither on this mountain nor at Jerusalem shall you worship me. But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

related post:
Seven signs that you may be under law

1. You’re not 100% sure if you’re 100% forgiven

God doesn’t do forgiveness in installments. All your sins were forgiven at the cross (Col 2:13) when God the Son abolished sin by the sacrifice of Himself (Heb 9:26). Neither God the Father (Heb 8:12) nor God the Holy Spirit (Heb 10:17) remembers your sin any more. Still not convinced? Then read this.

2. You believe Christians have a duty or responsibility to serve the Lord

Duty and responsibility are synonyms for obligation so this is a mind-set that says we are obliged, or indebted, to God. I’ve heard it said that “Jesus has done so much for you, what will you do for Him?” Indeed, God has given us everything. Ever wondered why? He did it “that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus” (Eph 2:7). He is not just rich in grace, but exceedingly rich. You cheapen His grace by thinking you have a duty or responsibility to pay Him back. Your responsibility is to believe that He is good and true! It is not our obligation to serve the Lord, it is our royal privilege. It is not our duty, but our great delight.

3. You suffer from performance anxiety.

Performance anxiety is a rational response to the uncertainty of life under the old covenant. But anxiety has no place in the new. We are to draw water from the wells of salvation with joy (Is 12:3). We walk under law in anxiety and fear, but we walk under grace with joy and thanksgiving! “Happy are those whose wrongs are forgiven, whose sins are pardoned! Happy is the person whose sins the Lord will not keep account of!” (Rms 4:7-8, GNB) God has made us His Sons, and with such a Father we need not be worried about anything (Mt 6:32). He is our Provider who delights to give good gifts to those who ask Him (Mt 7:11). Those who serve under the law are insecure, but sons are secure.

4. You think, “God will bless me as I do my part”

The essence of a life enslaved by law is the mindset that says, “I must do something for God.” The motivation may be to earn salvation or some other blessing. But this mindset is anti-Christ and anti-cross. Contrary to what you may think, we are not justified by what we but do grace alone (Rms 3:24). Grace and works don’t mix (Rms 11:6). (And if you’re thinking of James 2:24, read this.) Grace, peace, and every spiritual blessing have been given to us by God our Father through Jesus Christ (Eph 1:3). We are not called to work for God, but to do the work of God. (Click the link to learn more about mixing grace with works.)

Grace is God’s part; faith is our part (Eph 2:8). Faith is a positive response to what God has done. Faith is saying, “thank you Jesus!” Faith is healing the sick and casting out demons, because Jesus made provision for our healing and deliverance at the cross.

5. You think we need more preaching on repentance.

Repentance saves lives, but preaching on repentance doesn’t lead to repentance! A law mind-set emphasizes what people must do (repent!), but grace proclaims what God has already done (everything!). A law mindset uses inferior incentives (fear, judgment) that lead to temporary changes in behavior, but grace (God is good and He loves you!) changes the hardest heart. If you want people to genuinely repent, preach the goodness of God (Rms 2:4).

6. You think you have to overcome life’s trials or Jesus will blot out your name.

It really isn’t about you. Jesus is our overcomer and our victory (Jn 16:33). Everyone who believes Jesus is the Son of God has already overcome the world, because The Overcomer lives in them (1 Jn 5:4-5). Jesus promised the overcomers at Sardis that He would never blot out their name. Ever since then insecure performance-oriented believers have feared He might change His mind and do exactly that. For more on overcoming, read this.

7. You mainly think of following Jesus in terms of giving up things.

Christianity is a divine exchange, our life for his. No doubt you’ve heard people say that following Jesus costs you everything. And it does. You cannot call him Lord without renouncing the right to your own life. But see what you get in exchange! If salvation means nothing more to you than self-denial and personal sacrifice, you’ve missed the whole point. Christ offers us an unfair exchange; our life for His. God favors us with this exchange. We give him our sinful little selves and get everything in return. A law mindset looks at what we give up, but a grace mindset rejoices at what He offers in return! Stop thinking about what you gave up (nothing you could keep) and start enjoying what He has given you (everything!).

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