Thursday 13 January 2011

Apostolic Protectionism

This Facebook series from yesterday is important enough for public posting. The ministries Michael Reid,Terry Virgo and Peter Stott are mentioned. Not to bring a slur to them, but in my opinion to bring them (perhaps kicking and screaming) into the Body that Christ is building today. You'll have to have seen Toy Story 3 to understand the picture reference.

Chris Welch Compare present apostolic network methods with the first Gentile Christians. It was so open plan, Paul COULD write don't be of Apollos,Paul,Peter or whoever. They each imparted Word, then moved on, and that which really was Word remained, often after a firestorm. They understood there had to be a firestorm.None of this Michael Reid,Terry Virgo,Peter Stott single person protectionism ...cont
17 hours ago ·
Friends only ·LikeUnlike · CommentHendrik Ginting likes this.
Chris Welch as to who gets to minister, apart from in the most heretical cases. The early apostles understood that a true Jesus foundation stands by itself and "protectionism" is often biased anyway,preventing the full Counsel of God from across the Whole Body of Christ. Charismatic conferences try to be as WIDE as possible...but even they are so much like the protected environmental domes of the Cornwall Eden Project.
17 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 person
Loading...Chris Welch It's possible to spend life flitting from one nation's charismatic dome to another, never fully embracing Jesus's Open Plan Kingdom Life.He has no domes.No protective environments, save for the Holy Presence and fear of the Living God. When things got too open plan in Acts, Ananias and Sapphira dropped dead!
17 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 person
Loading...André van der Merwe Love it Chris!
17 hours ago via Facebook Mobile · LikeUnlike · 1 person
Loading...Paul Noble Apostolic networks are another second level concept!
14 hours ago · LikeUnlikePaul Noble The Apostle has is very much a third level guy or gal: a planter, builder, pioneer of a work - guys like Calvin & Luther were probably apostolic along with many in history who never got any credit but pushed the borders of the kingdom a little wider!
14 hours ago · LikeUnlike Chris Welch Yes Paul.We are going to look back at this era trying ever so hard to get off the floor from rolling around laughing.It's going to be tough, but in 20-30 years time some will force themselves up on their feet and manage to just about regain composure.cont...
13 hours ago · LikeUnlike Chris Welch ‎"What, you mean Terry Virgo had ultimate say for around 40 years on who he related to,who related to him,who related to all the sheep in x gazillion locations.He was the arbiter of the rather finite list of what got taught and what didn't in any of his network churches. It's a wonder that a band as good as Phatfish could have ever emerged there!!"!
13 hours ago · LikeUnlike Chris Welch ‎"What you mean Michael Reid got a bit of a gifting in praying for healing,then to make a hit with the Africans(because UK wasn't interested!)he actually designed his own Archbishop's robes and set himself up as head of a new Pentecostal denomination, and set up choirs in matching garb.He then organised conferences for 30 years where he had sole control of who could and couldn't minister.cont...
13 hours ago · LikeUnlike Chris Welch And , what! You say Peter Stott for more or less 30 years confined input into the church he formed, to himself and a very limited group of his choosing including,mainly and sadly an apostle who was caught up in adultery. Didn't anyone in ...his congregation think that was strange? Didn't anyone feel that their learning experience was somewhat limited? How many apostles and evangelists emerged from this rather dedicated form of restricted input? None? What? In 30 years? Didn't anyone think this strange?What about that Argentinian fella that had pioneered a couple of churches already before he came to the church? Oh, he was reduced to strumming a guitar for years!"
WwwwHhhhaaaaaaaTtttt? And unable to control themselves everybody is on the floor again.
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13 hours ago · LikeUnlike Paul Noble Brilliant Chris you have a gift in irony - Its good to see the funny side but I think we both agree ---- its tragic! Why Why Why! By the way who is the argentinian fella?
11 hours ago · LikeUnlike Paul Noble Just been reading about John Calvin - amazing Apostle and really respect what he did in his time BUT he introduced this idea of the Pastor at the top of the pyramid elders underneath him & then deacons below them that so many churches are stuck with.
11 hours ago · LikeUnlike Chris Welch Jose and Elizabeth. Jose has a lot in common with my background.We get on well. Well that's not saying much.The whole world gets on with Jose!
Re Calvin. Well he didn't introduce pyramids,he sort of didn't de-introduce that it came... right through the Catholic infrastructure into Lutheranism....just changing the role of the leader only but keeping the pyramid. At least you didn't "go through" the leader to God anymore...well not as actively as Catholics anyhow.See more
11 hours ago · LikeUnlike Paul Noble So whats Jose doing still in Havant?
11 hours ago · LikeUnlike Chris Welch He believes as we all did, that by submitting into an infrastructure he will somehow get his anointing back. When our anointing and grace are caught up in knowing and being in union with Christ, and all those who are "following the Spirit".... In Havant the distinction is so subtle you have to be in a brilliant Key of David meeting to even start to see it,but once you do,you see bondage everywhere. There are soul ties everywhere you look. There's an uncanny yieldedness of the male to an unbroken female spirituality,that at first sight looks mature, but it's one step off witchcraft. Rather than chase darkness down rabbitholes ,Havant just need a good dose of Galations 2:20 ...or to focus on the finished work of Christ...or to wheel in Andre Rabe ,Francois du Toit or Rich Novek or somebody....or perhaps more Paul Noble!!!See more
11 hours ago · LikeUnlike Paul Noble Interesting - maybe we should a breakout club? I'm seeing the "Pastor" of our church next week and laying it on the line: they either let me be who God created me to be or I leave.
11 hours ago · LikeUnlike Chris Welch My background is largely female. One of the main 3rdlevel females was Basilea Schlink who continuously led you back to the finished work of Christ. An unbroken spiritual female weaves a kind of coterie that is never transparent.You are somehow never quite good enough, especially if male.its like an impenetrable club,that allows you in just as long as you submit your will.cont...
10 hours ago · LikeUnlike Chris Welch A 3rd leveller never needs to spin webs to hold you in or keep you out. There is next to know difference between a 3rdleveller male or female, both are rooted in the transparency of God's Life....they know Him who is from the beginning....and "they are the ones who take the hits that you may know Christ". False manipulators make sure that you are the one taking the hits,,,,and that you should always go through them to get to Christ.
10 hours ago · LikeUnlike Paul Noble What your talking about is that old chess nut the Jezebel spirit? You can see that Elijah even though a very anointed prophet was weak in his identity and jezebel went for the jugular! I believe God is raising up champions in the spirit that don't need to be "in: or "out: of any group but are intimate disciples of Jesus and know him. Look at Paul he just didn't seem to care - thats cos he had caught a glimpse of the risen Christ and lost the fear of man!
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Brian Mirte Longridge Yes we are called like healthy plants to grow straight up toward the Sun, as we receive the proper nutrients of Gods lavish, unconditional love, He secures us in our identity and therefore we have no need to unhealthily bend to receive our core identity from others unconciously trying to get them to tell us who we are,do we measure up etc.....
7 hours ago · LikeUnlike Chris Welch Good comments.How clear a picture Brian.I think Paul your time with Andy will be like a session I had with a couple who stay with us,and like a piece of NT scripture.Have you never wondered why Paul had to "write that bit of foolishness",is it Corinthians....where he lays out his apostleship credentials...twice shipwrecked...wild animals etc..
2 hours ago · LikeUnlike Chris Welch You'd think with hindsight obvious...or worse with a carnal mindset ...there he goes blowing his own trumpet. But no,one of the adjustments we all have to make in Body Life is to help each other where we have too low an opinion of ourselves,but the converse is try to disabuse those that will listen of their overly high opinion.
2 hours ago · LikeUnlike Chris Welch This is what the Bible means of raising up the low places and bringing down the mountains.They are both "false seeing", "false images scrawled in Ezekiel 10:8 style on our inner walls" and when we confront either they have the weight of Satan behind them.Just like teenage,Christian teenage or the "young men"stage is equally weird.Like the disciples,get a little power in your finger tips and these charismatic "wunderkinds" think they know everything as do teenagers. So, like Jesus, one minute we are praising them up to the eyeballs,the next we're opposing some high and mighty lofty spirit as it was with Peter. · LikeUnlike Chris Welch The sad thing is if the criticism "doesn't take".Staggeringly after all these key encounters in the gospels, the disciples never got terminally offended,but stuck with Jesus to the very end. In my experience sometimes,especially now that th...ere are three clear levels in church today...if people don't want to hear 3rd level stuff and grow there is a perfectly good Endlevel environment for them to go off and nurse their "bruised denial" and be endlessly sustained in their false notions.And this is what happened with the people I confronted.They have not stayed with us since.And,interestingly enough..they were really generous every previous time...but obviously judged me in the flesh because this last time nothing was returned.You have to understand that when we give hospitality we do not expect any is just that it was done in this way...which makes it seem as if it was "conditional payment".See more
2 hours ago · LikeUnlike Chris Welch Endlevel is a Blackberry typo for 2ndlevel.

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