Chris Welch uses Designer Pro 365 to illustrate all 3rd level concepts

Wednesday, 26 August 2009

The Tree and The River and www.river-camp.co.uk

The Tree and the River

While I was pausing from this blog earlier this month, I was writing on other's blogs and also commenting on Facebook. Lydia of a Joy to be me wrote this great Norman Grubb statement:
"The usual thing we say when a crisis hits us is, “God permitted it”. That means that God is up there and we are underneath. But God isn’t up there at all! He is within. I never lift my eyes one single time to heaven to try to find Him up there, do you? I don’t waste my breath, my sight, or anything else. Why should I waste my time trying to get a Person to come down when He lives within me? I can see Him where He is, in a common bit of human flesh redeemed in His precious blood, packed full of the Holy Spirit.

This makes my whole attitude to life different. Once I recognize that God is joined as one with me, I no longer try to find him or get him to come and rescue me." ~ Norman Grubb
"Friends, the cross is not the objective. Union is the objective. The cross is the gateway. It’s not the end. The Christ is the end and He is joined to me forever and I joined to Him forever." ~ Norman Grubb


This my reply:

Can I just share my honest feelings here? When I first encountered Norman's group and they were sharing along these lines, I had been in a church (Emsworth) where He had Presenced us in some powerful ways...along the line of some outstanding miraculous occurrences in and amongst worship and prayer together in meetings.So I wasn't going to backtrack on any of this. Rather I wanted to "fill out" what I already knew about approaching God in a corporate setting, with much more revelation of how His life works in in and around us all day long.The fact remains that Norman's group were so much on this side of things that their corporate worship was ...well to say the least....pretty non-existant. A few 1940s timewarp Anglican campstyle songs at best, with great Norman lyrics. As a published songster of the 80s this all seemed pretty naff.While I've been away, I've been ploughing further through Frank Viola's From Eternity to Here and I've got to the bit where he is describing God's need for a home, and comparing the Garden of Eden with Revelation, in particular The Tree of Life and The River of Life.And it was like a light went on again!!! It's like this.In God there is a dry Life and wet Life, side by side. There is a Tree and there is a River.The Tree always was the inworked Life of God. The Cross has become our tree which annhihilates the Old, and but also at the same time gives us access to God's very own imperishable Life.Christ in our form. Him living His Life as us.But there is a wet life as well! And in all our internal wranglings over the true meaning of Romans and what God has done for us, we must not go back on the new things that God has been bringing into His Body again particularly in the last 100 years, which is more akin to the manifestation before people's very eyes of the River of God. When you put believing believer's in a room together, all focussed and moving from and in their Saviour, in love and praise and faith and victory, and declaration.... well things get very wet indeed!As I've said to Lydia and Shawna several times, it seems like up to now you get either Spirit or Word.Either Tree or River. Either Exchanged Life or River Life of the experience of the outpoured Spirit.Well in 1950 something changed. And as well as the healing revival which broke out at this time, there was also this other man- this American missionary in Argentina, who being so discouraged by not making any headway stubbornly refused to do another thing until he had met God. This was Ed Miller (book Thy God Reigneth, see book section in my blog).He was one of the first men, like Norman, to press through in a rendering of the Psalm 24 verse of scripture...to seek the Face of the God of Jacob...this generation who are to seek God's Presence as did Jacob wrestling at Peniel, where he had his name changed.The charismatic Jacob, who could faith in speckled sheep and striped sheep, was finally irreparably damaged...and for the rest of history there has existed an ISRAEL. Which is the final God version 3.0 of Man connecting with His Father. Abraham v1.0, Isaac v2.0 then Jacob,now Israel v3.0!!But what Ed Miller uncovered, and through a kind of quiet backdoor, this has now seeped right through the Body....was a new understanding of WET LIFE...of how the RIVER functions in practice. This is the understanding of how our Key of David meetings work...and to a greater and greater extent since Florida, how our main meetings now work.(See the links in This is Huuuuuge) It is certainly how Rob Rufus seeks to move, especially when he introduces people like Josh Mills. It is also how Rolland and Heidi Baker seek to move in their meetings.The tabernacle is both a picture for us of how spiritual Life manifests...both in Tree format and in River format. In Spirit and in Word. But all in Truth!!There's a brazen altar (dry) and a Laver (wet) there's the shewbread (dry) and the oil and lampstand(wet) and there's the hidden manna inside the Ark of the Covenant (dry) and the real Presence of God overhead between the Cherubim on top of the Ark (very definitely wet).For centuries the devil has divided the wet from the dry, Tree huggers, from the River splashers. And in the same way that a battery does not work if the dry plates are not immersed in the wet acid...we've had a representation of Christ in the earth that is pretty poor and unconvincing. Neither the plates nor the acid were wrong....but they need to be in proximity to work!!!!Norman Grubb needs to be right next to Rolland and Heidi Baker. Rob Rufus needs to be right up against Paul Anderson Walsh!!So do you understand where I am coming from?And we know this stuff is powerful because in the 50s straight after Ed Miller's encounter, evangelist Tommy Hicks stormed into Peron’s office, prayed for his family, and out of that boldness was then given the freedom of every major stadium in Argentina....which were each piled high with crutches of those healed. And in a few short years Argentina went from being mostly Catholic to much nearer 50-50 Protestant and Catholic.But the behind the scenes transactions had been done as Ed sought the face of the Lord and prevailed.
July 26, 2009 10:14 PM


RiverCamp 2009


River Camp 2009 begins this Friday through Monday.Day tickets are still available on the gate I believe. For more details click on the side link section of this blog.

RiverCamp is not beside a literal river. It is on a hilltop at Lenchworth near Evesham.The grounds have been used for decades as a healing centre, though really all they are is farmer's fields. Remember that is where the angels showed up to announce the birth of Jesus. And it was in Harrogate Cow Sheds that God literally birthed the new move in the UK in the Dales Bible Weeks 1976 and after.

Any blogreaders in the UK can come to our caravan and make themselves known. Havant Church are closing down for the weekend and as many as can make it are camping together up there, or the woossy, staying in Evesham bed and breakfasts.

Corporate worship is outstanding. Messages are key, cutting edge stuff, as well as reports about what is going on worldwide. And the general fellowship that happens all round the campsite is , as bloggers have found both in Atlanta and Hong Kong, as key as anything anywhere.Unlike other large conferences, there is really little agenda. That is why we like it. It's a bit like key of David. It's about God. It's about finding the flow about how He wants to relate to His people.

And the children's meetings...far from being also ran "babysitting" meetings...NOPE...some of them are better in activity, and cutting edge God stuff than the main meetings.CDs of the worship and messages are always available after the event.

Becca's quote

I conclude with Becca's quote at the top.You would have thought the Tree Experience and the River Experience would be a given in the Body of Christ as she has written.

Why then is Smith Wiggleworth's (almost parting) 1940s prophecy so significant: that in the last great move of God there would be a twinning together of Spirit and Word. The reason it is so significant is that up until the time of writing this blog in the last one and a half years...and let this blog be a tool towards it...

There is a very real split right through the worldwide manifestBody of Christ over this precise issue. When the Florida Outpouring was ongoing I could sense the first real signs of a marriage between the two just waiting in the wings to appear and this prompted the Parable of the Shekinah Construction Company

As I've written time and again: You get networks that preach who we are in Christ. Faithful Word preaching. But they have no clue how to approach God corporately and experience the manifest outpoured Presence of God. Or you get the most incredible manifestations of gifts and worship, but absolutely no concept that it is not a network that is being built around a group of charismatic men, it's about what Jesus called a "laying of the axe to the root"...and this did not mean Jewish worship and the Old Covenant...the root means : untying the knot where the knot first occurred in Genesis 3. And the full clarity of how Jesus did this has come through faithful servants such as Norman Grubb, that at the time of writing the larger Body of Christ are deaf to.


4 comments:

lydia said...

Now this is why you must keep blogging!!!

Chris Welch - 07000INTUNE said...

that's a gracious comment since you've read the greater part of it already on your own comments section. There's a handful of you that keep me going!!!God bless You.

lydia said...

No problem Chris! I love how you have such an in depth and aerial view of the BIG PICTURE!! Keep sharing...........Both the truth needs to be clear to the body, and then we need to understand how to function as a body - you are doing a good job of sharing all you have learned on this and I think people need to hear it!!! Blessings on you!!

Shawna said...

Tree Huggers and River Splashers.... I remember reading that in the original post, but just have to say that that's very fun. :)
I just got back from two days of last minute, end of season camping with the kids where I got to read almost all of Frank Viola's book. So good. I am happy that you and your family are part of a local community being Christ, being the Church. I pray your trip to RiverCamp is a wonderful time for all of you from Havant.