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Thursday, 23 June 2011

No Independent Self by Norman Grubb

All of us are grateful to Nancy Gilmore for making this original copy available



No Independent Self


by Norman Grubb



The basis of our total truth, which we are taking to the whole church in the whole world, is that the human self has no nature of its own. It is the expressor of a deity nature, whether the nature of the false deity, the spirit of error, or the true Deity, the Spirit of Truth (1 John 4:6). Because we have all become accustomed to speaking of ourselves as having a human nature, it may make it clearer if we speak of the self never being an independent self. It has never been a self-operating self, and thus never operating by expressing a nature of its own.



There is no independent, self-operating self in the universe, except the One who calls Himself the I AM (Exodus 3:14), and says, "I am God and there is none else . . . There is no God else beside Me" (Isaiah 45:21,22).



But the Independent One has a limitation to His independence, for it is said of Him that He cannot lie (Titus 1:2). In other words His eternal self-independence is a fixed choice between two alternatives (these alternatives are explained in the following paragraphs on the law of opposites). Therefore, when we say that we created selves have no independent self, but express His eternal Deity Self, we are also saying that we express God's fixed nature, which has eternally discarded the possibility of expressing the liar, self for self nature. We are fixed as He ( 1 John 3:9).





THE LAW OF OPPOSITES



The fundamental law of the universe is that there are pairs of opposites, and that nothing operates except by the one swallowing up the other (2 Cor.5:4), the one using the other as its means of manifestation -- thus light-dark, heat-cold, sweet-bitter, hard-soft, yes-no, the positive-negative of electricity, and the proton-electron of the atom: or taken into our own reality as selves, self-loving or self-giving self: self for self or self for others.



This is why it says of God Himself that He cannot lie. In other words, He is dead to being a self for self (a liar) and is unalterably fixed as being the Self for others. The eternal fact is that He has never been a loner, but brought His own Son into Being. Thus He is the eternal other lover (John 5:20; 3:35). (See Alan Parker pamphlet on "The Cross in the Heart of God").



Thus created selves can only know themselves and function by being confronted by the choice of opposites. This was true also among those whom we speak of as heavenly beings. Lucifer was the chief one close to the throne of God (IS. 14:12-14; Ezekiel 28:12-15). He was created to be the manifestor of the Creator's fixed nature of other-love, (Lucifer means Light-bearer). But he chose in his freedom to be the expressor of the opposite, alternative nature of self-for self to which God had died. He brought into manifestation the hidden fire-nature rather than the light-nature of God (Hebrews 12:29: 1 John 1:5). He imagines himself to be in independent self (Is. 14:13, 14), but is deceived as to who he really is. Jesus called him the expression of negative light (Matt. 5:23). There was war in heaven and Lucifer was cast out (Rev. 12:7-9).





GOD'S PURPOSES TO BE FULFILLED BY HIS FAMILY OF SONS



God utilizes the choice between alternatives in us to fulfill His eternal plan "to the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:3-14). He is bringing into being a vast family of sons in His image, whose created selves (with no independence of their own) express His fixed other-love nature. They will manage the universe with His Son (Heb. 1:2; Rom. 8:17) by ministering to it in His eternal other-love, and thus serving and liberating it to fulfill itself in the love of one to the other (Is. 11:1-9; Rom. 8:19-21), so that the whole universe will be one eternal song of praise, worship, harmony, mutual love and delight (1 Cor. 15:24-28).



This then necessitated that we who are created in His image be confronted by the reality of the opposites in ourselves and choose to express the deity nature of self-for-others or self-for-self. Therefore, the firs created couple had to be confronted with the symbol of the two trees in the Garden. They were at first unconscious expressors of God's other-love nature. Adam was in harmony with all creatures and could give each its proper name (Gen. 2:20): they knew no opposite to other-love in union with the Father.



In order to become conscious operating selves, and not merely continue like spontaneous infants, God used Lucifer, the wrathful expressor (Rev. 12:12) of that opposite fire-nature, to entice and deceive Eve. She responded to Satan's (the serpent) lies about God and began to express his self-for-self nature in herself by taking the fruit which God had forbidden. Adam consciously chose to identify with Eve's self-for-self nature disobedience (1 Tim. 2:14).



Thus they became conscious of the opposites through the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The good is self which expresses God and other-love; the evil is a self which expresses Satan and self-loving love. They became expressors of their Satan-father's self-for-self nature, Satan's "seed" (Gen. 3:14; 1 Jn. 3:8-10: Jn. 8:44). In their expression of him (Eph. 2:1-3, they became tricked into the false concept of seeing themselves as independent selves, even as their false father Satan was deceived into thinking he is an independent self. (In reality he expresses that negative fire-nature in God which, rightly used in God became the source of the light-nature of other-love).



So we transmit what we are or think we are. Therefore, it was God's purpose that Satan, the serpent, should transmit his deceived concept of his independence into us his seed. As a result we fallen humans think we are independent selves. But in reality we are merely expressors of Satan's self-for-self nature. Note the word "deceiveth" in that plainest word in Scripture concerning his lying effects on us (Rev. 12:9). And thus by this deceitful means we destined sons of the Father could once for all experience the bitterness of this lie and discard it through the Last Adam, Jesus Christ.



THE SECRET AND ESSENTIAL VALUE OF THE LAW OF GOD THROUGH MOSES



From this follows God's gracious dealings with fallen humanity through the law given by Moses (Jn.1:17). Paul has been the great expositor of its necessary purpose. Actually the law, as outer manifestor of God's true nature, is inherent in every person. The law exposes eternal truth as well as our inability to perform it in our false union with Satan. Romans 1:8-21 makes that plain and traces our total declension from it in the rest of the chapter. But here and there is a response in an honest heart, as in Romans 2:18-21, and the instance of Joseph in Genesis 39:9. And all nations have had their laws of right and wrong. But in the blindness of our deceived selves, we have not recognized our self-for-self nature as sin against God and its eternal consequences. This is the "ignorance" of Acts 17:23, Ephesians 4:18, and even of Paul in 1 Timothy 1:13. Thus only the outer pronouncement of God's law is known to be sin (Rom. 5:13).



So when God began His eternal purpose of restoring the human family to its true being, He first give His great call to Abraham to be the human father of the family of faith who would believe in the Living God, the "Possessor of heaven on earth." There had always been the thin line, like a nylon thread of believers and knowers, in this Satan-captured world, from Abel, Seth, Enoch, Noah, and Shem, to Abraham. But it was just a thread. Now it was to become a great nation of believers in the true God in that idol-infested world. In the "fullness of time" He would Himself come in the flesh to be our marvelous Saviour.



In due course the first little family became a great population in Egypt and then became a nation through Moses in its own promised land . It was Moses who gave them and us, in plain words inscribed in stone, the true characteristics of God's holy nature (which in our later days we are to know as law all fulfilled in love). Yet in His fullness of mercy, He combined the law and its judgments (which we would inevitably break because it was given to us to expose the inevitability of our breaking it as slaves to the sin deity) with constant means of restoration and access to Him by blood sacrifices and various fellowship offerings of the Tabernacle and Temple. By these means, indeed, there were always those (many more than we might think -- 2 Kings 19:18) who had a living relationship with God For the Lamb had been slain from the foundation of the world, and there was a spiritual Christ before the historic Christ (Heb. 11:26; 1 Cor. 9:3,4: Jn. 8:56, 58).



So in the blindness of our fallen hearts, the law was God's merciful means of revealing sin as sin. Then, in that fullness of time, the True Lamb of God came to make the one complete and sufficient sacrifice for the sins of the world. By His death and resurrection there is justification from the condemnation and eternal consequence of our sins condition. This is for all who move in by inner faith reception and outer word confession of Him in His finished work of atonement. Beyond that the Spirit gives inner witness of the replacement of the Spirit of Truth for that false spirit of error. This is the radical revelation to those who cannot stop short of our total inheritance.





We have come now to the law's final revelation, which the vast majority of the redeemed remain ignorant of. It is for those who hunger and thirst after righteousness until they are filled (Matt 5:6). What is revealed is the root of sin: the Satanic deceit of thinking we are independent selves, who by ourselves can resist all Satan's assaults of self for self. This is especially under line for us by Paul in Romans 7. We know we have now become new creations in Christ and experience in our redeemed selves the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22, 23). But at the same time, we are being constantly knocked off our steady walk in the Spirit by the assaults of all kinds of temptations. They drag us back toward sin-responses such as fear, hate, lust, pride, etc.



Because we are still under the delusion of being independent selves, we respond to those temptations which the law says we should not respond to. We therefore say we don't want to respond, and we make resolutions that we won't (Paul's Romans 7 statement "when I would do good"). But then we are hopelessly caught. We struggle and seek to resist the pulls, but there they are. We feel guilty for having such pulls -- which we call flesh -- and experience inward guilt and often outward response. We blame those responses on a supposed flesh-nature which binds and drives us, so that we see ourselves as what Paul said in Romans 7:14: "carnal, sold under sin." So we remain with our struggles and inner condemnations as being such flesh people. When we have actually sinned, we repeatedly return to 1 John 9 and thankfully accept the forgiveness and cleansing, though with the hopeless recognition that we shall very soon go through the same repeated syndrome of struggle, condemnation by the law, and renewed cleansing.



But at last some of us come to a place of desperation. Only those who become desperate can find the releasing secret. Paul himself went this way. In Romans 6 he leads us through the deeper meaning of identification with Christ, by which we reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God. But while we reckon that in Romans 6, it just doesn't work out in the life of Romans 7! Yet Paul then goes on to leave Romans 7 forever behind (except for occasional foolish visits) and live in the reality of Romans 8, where there is no further condemnation, there is freedom. The fixed law of the Spirit of life forever replaces the former fixed law of sin and Satan control.



Paul's great discovery was that the human self is basically neutral as for as the kind of nature it expresses. He says in Romans 7:18 that no good thing resides in our humanity (flesh). But then he says that neither does any bad thing, though he had mistakenly and so deceivingly thought it did. No!

- - if any good in him is expressed by the Spirit bearing His fruit through him, merely as a branch; so also, any bad is not in humanity, our flesh, but is equally the fruit of the bad spirit through us as a branch. He actually said that in Romans 6:20-22. Which fruit were we formerly producing? Fruit is not a branch product, but a vine product. It depends on which vine our human selves are the branches of! So if the good is the Spirit of good expressed by me, the bad is the spirit of bad - - what Paul called "sin that dwelleth in me" in Romans 7:17. This is now replaced by Christ dwelling in us (Romans 8:10).



So, at the point of desperation, Paul found a solution to his misery. He was not able to combat temptations under the pointing finger of the law's "you ought to." The solution was the radical revelation that he never was an independent self combating temptation and challenged by the law. He came to see his created self (as are all selves) as the mere container and then expresser of the Eternal Self. We are all created to contain and express the eternal self. But we have to learn that nothing functions except by swallowing up its opposite. We learn the operation of God's opposite by yielding our human selves to the Satan occupant, resulting in "sin that dwelleth in me." We are tricked into believing that we run ourselves (as he thinks he runs himself) and that we ourselves are the sin person doing the sins. But we are branches, not vines.



God sent the law through Moses to challenge us to be doers if we think we can! Down at last we fall. We are of course unable to be self-operating selves; because there is no such things. Initially we saw our sins removed by grace. We did not yet see that they were Satan's sins by us and not ours (Jn 8:44). But then comes the final discovery that the sin-doer was never we, but he in us as us. The law caught us out as if we were independent selves. Then came the condemnation fro the law and the struggling to rid ourselves of the sin-power holding us. But at last we see! There never was anything wrong with our branch humanity made in His image. So therefore, we take no condemnation as if we were the culprit. It was he, "Mr. Sin", pulling at us and often knocking us over.



This brings us to Paul's Calvary revelation that Jesus on the cross was we on that cross, for He came to be our representative. Because sin was indwelling and expressing itself by us, He died on Calvary as us, His holy body as ours. He was thus "made sin" (2 Cor 5:21), made the sin expresser we were. In his death, the Spirit of error left that body. Sin as us left. In the tomb His own resurrecting Spirit came into His body and raised it. He comes into our bodies also as we receive Him by faith. So Paul saw the truth about our human selves. The created human self, created "very good" in God's image, had never had anything wrong with, except that it participated in physical mortality. Now it manifests the nature of the Spirit of truth and responds to His drives. It is dead in Christ to manifesting the nature of the spirit of error and responding to his drives. Therefore, we have also become "dead to the law," because the law only had an apparent claim on us while we were living in the deceit of thinking we were independent selves running our own lives. So now there remains nothing for this outer law of God to point demanding or accusing fingers at. We are "dead to the law", because there is no longer such a thing as an independent self to which the law can address itself.



Free At Last



So now at last are clear. We are free because we know ourselves as nothing but the expresser, vessel, branch, temple, body member, and slave of the Deity self, his Spirit joined to our spirits. And we have moved in by the recognition of faith, as in Romans 8:2 and Gal 2:20, to being right self-conscious selves, conscious of ourselves being Himself in expression. We act freely as ourselves because He has of His own choice by grace joined, fused, and identified Himself with us as ourselves. We are "driven" people, driven by His self-for-others deity nature. And we live freely in His keeping in our soul-body reactions as much as in our spirit (1 Thess 5:23).





So then, what about those continual pulls that we still have to that old opposite -- those invasions of fear, hate, worry, lust, self-seeking and weakness? Now we are alive to Satan's subtlest assaults on us. The subtle trick occurs when we feel those constant pulls on us and we go back to the old habits of thinking we ought not to respond to them. Bang! We have been caught out in the old habit of thinking we are independent, and thus need to respond to an "ought to" or an "ought not". This is the subtle trick. Those pulls make us think we are independent human selves again, and the moment we think that, back comes the law saying, "No, you ought not to." And we are caught right up into false condemnation. That "ought not" only reaches us because we have slipped back into thinking we should be watching ourselves, running our own lives, and combating the wrong pulls. This is where Satan has his laugh on us. There we are, inwardly condemned as if we ought not to fear, hate, anger, lust, or to want or react to these negative desires. And there we are struggling and condemned, or maybe following through to some actual sin.



Why? Here comes Satan's final subtle trick. We are tricked in to thinking that having those pulls is sin: whereas, the real sin is the unbelief of thinking we are again independent selves who should not have these pulls. But the independent self is really Satan-self again having his hold on us, and we then again "carnal sold under sin". That means we are back again under the law with its "thou shalt not". But we are bound and unable to keep that law because our false sense of independent self, to which the law addresses itself, is really Satan as us with his temporary control of us.



Paul puts the essence of Romans 6,7 and 8 into three verses to the Galatians -- Galatians 5:16-18. "Walk in the Spirit," he writes, "and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh." We are Spirit people, but still in our flesh-humanity, and thus open to all Satan's pull on us in our soul-body emotions and appetites. So now what happens? We become conscious of flesh pulls, for, says Paul, "the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary the one to the other." These contrary pulls make us conscious of the antagonistic opposites, "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We are Spirit people bearing Spirit fruit and loving to be so, but we now also feel the pulls and desires of the flesh -- Satan's agency in this Satan-filled world for attracting us back to his self-for-self ways.



This consciousness of the flesh-Spirit antagonisms is the danger spot. Satan thereby seeks to drag us back to that separation through the fall, in which we again think we are independent selves instead of Spirit-united selves. This independent self outlook is really the touch of the old Satan-union on us. It also means that we immediately put ourselves back under the law again. And with what consequence? We are bound by that Satan-self in our separation and cannot respond to the law or Spirit, and so Paul says, "Ye cannot do the things that ye would." Thus we are under the condemnation of the law and experience guilt that we cannot fulfill it. Being in the lie of independent self temporarily puts us back under Satan's control. Therefore, we cannot do the things that we would. Properly caught, properly bound and condemned!



But now Paul says, "If ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law." In other words, if we are temporarily in unbelief, which has resurrected the lies of the independent self, we then suddenly remind ourselves of who we really are -- Spirit bound and Spirit led, our self expressing Himself. We then say, "Wait a minute. Of course I am not an independent self feeling these pulls of Satan. That is his lie. No, I am a Christ-self." I do not deny or fight the reality of my flesh pulls (and those are precisely what my Elder Brother equally, continually had according to Heb. 4:15).



I accept and recognize the reality of these flesh pulls, but I am dead to them in Christ ("always, bearing about in my body the dying of the Lord Jesus" as in 2 Cor. 4:10). They can shout at me by temptation, but have no hold or right to me (Roman. 8:12). I am alive unto God, a Spirit person, and led by the Spirit. The only law on me is what I now instinctively fulfill, the "law of the Spirit" by which I spontaneously do the things of the Spirit. Through Christ the Spirit has replaced that old "law of sin and death" by which I spontaneously did the things of the flesh. So I go free -- back to who I really always was.



This is Paul's definition of daily freedom under daily flesh-assaults or pressures. It is what James tol d us to be very thankful for -- good constant practice in the application of our faith walk. We admit those lying pulls back to unbelief, but now we are spontaneously faith-conscious of walking as Christ as us. Therefore, we "stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free" (Gal. 5:1). By admitting Satan's right to pull at us through the flesh, we are also free to affirm our right to our faith-consciousness of being Christ as us. Thus we express Christ's nature of love, joy, and praising. We swallow up the negative pulls, or rather use those very pulls to express His pulls: love replacing hate, faith fear, rest strain, strength weakness, self-giving for self-gratifying, and so on.



We Will Repeat About This Independent Self


Because of its importance, and because it is the main reason for this whole "walking in the Spirit" sharing, I will address again what we do in meeting the assaults of the flesh. The answer is that we do not fight temptation, nor take condemnation for it. The very opposite. We recognize that the real temptation is to make me think I am the independent self that I am not. Then I am again "under the law", yet cannot fulfill it, because independent self is really Satan as me (Matt 16:23). It is the sin of unbelief. What then do I do? I quickly recognize that the problem is not my having flesh-temptation, but rather my temporarily forgetting (2Pet 1:9) that I am n longer and independent self. Who I am is simply and sole an express of Christ in His nature..



Therefore, as quickly as I can, I accept the fact of being tempted, for we live in a totally tempting world. Accepting that, I don't deny or resist the temptation. No, I resist the tempter (James 4:7) by saying, "That's not I you are pulling: That's only my outer soul emotions and body appetites, which of course are open to all that can reach me from your outer world" -- 1 Cor 2:12). But I am not a bunch of outer responses, I am Christ as me. He is the real Self expressed by my human container self." As I do that, I am in fact doing what Paul said in 2 Cor 4:10: inwardly recognizing my place of death in his death to those old pulls of Satan on my human self. In place of these temptations, I am seeing myself in my true self-relationship of Christ in me as me. As I do that, the consciousness of myself as a Christ-expresser swallows up the negative consciousness of Satan and his pulls on me. Satan flees (Ja 4:7). I resist him by replacing false belief in him by true belief in who I really am -- Christ as me. Light swallows up dark. We don't fight the dark; we replace it by turning on the light.



Our danger, then, is not the fact that temptation pulls us. We shall always have plenty of that on all levels. The danger is that it tricks us back into thinking we are the selves who must respond to these pulls. But now we know that trick of Satan. We accept the pulls as normal and right on our humanity. But then we say, "That's not my real me. Those are only pulls on my outer clothing of soul-body. My 'me' is Christ as me, and the light is on and the darkness swallowed up." And if we are tempted to think, "But yes, we are constantly assaulted by the same things," then we then equally say, " And yes, that gives me continual practice in recognizing again and again who I am -- Christ as me!"



And Now That More Than Conqueror Reality



Now we are "more than conquerors" (Rom 8:37), because we are freed from having to fight our own battles and watch out for our human responses. We are "fathers," not just "young men" (1Jn 2:12-14). We are co-laborers, co-saviors (1 Cor 9:22), and intercessors. We now move out to meet the needs of others. We are more than just personal conquerors; we can lead others into conquest. We are the privileged ones to be "Knowers" by the Spirit of what is to us the total truth; That formerly we were Satan-I, but now through Calvary Christ-I, with no illusory independent self in between. This is such liberating light and the meaning of life in fullness that we have an unending drive of the Spirit to bring this "mystery hidden from ages and generations and now made manifest: (Col 1:26) to all God's people. We are taking our share in this worldwide, church-wide commission. We know it includes also our share in the offense of the cross where the sword of the Spirit pierces too deep and disrupts established convictions. But we also have the glory of seeing an increasing number in whom the light is lit in clarity. And we know our calling, as with Paul, is "to open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel," and to "speak boldly as I ought to speak" (Eph 6:19, 20). And by God's enabling, this we will do.

6 comments:

Hugo Boss Deep Red said...

its interesting and well judged analysis is reflecting in this writing.

Jon Sidnell said...

Thanks Chris, this is pretty much what the Lord is teaching me right now. It seems to be coming up everywhere I look!

You may want to listen to the latest message on Viola's "Christ Is All" podcast. It's called "Living By The Spirit" and as I type, he's sharing precisely this same message from Romans 7-8 for today's generation. Well worth a listen, though it may not add anything that you need to hear :)

Chris Welch - 07000INTUNE said...

thx Hugo . Any comment's a good comment because it's feedback...and only some of it is happening on facebook, and not on every post.
Jon, I will I will...look into that...that's tremendous. Can you imagine how it's been for 23 years wanting to scream at Keswick convention people...did you know there's a Way of the Spirit.... and with Derby church, Mark Mumford and most of the rest of Britain...Did you know you've all died and you are all now Christ in your form, your personalities and your bodies....get staright on that one and you won't need half these Celebrate Recovery programmes. It's been inner torture. You can't open your mouth because everyone's eyes glaze over as soon as you say a single sentence....something within people instantly wants to dismiss Spirit reality and retreat to the cosy framework of getting high on charismatic songs. And I'm a bloomin worship leader with enough anointing to take Derby sky high, and here's the Spirit in me saying....Leave all the flash stuff now Chris....we're on a bigger operation now....and there's me chained to railings hollering...Holy Spirit you cannot be serious...this is really bad for my flesh life!!!!

Jon Sidnell said...

Love it, "this is really bad for my flesh life!" That is precisely what the Lord's been showing me. I'd been thinking that my spiritual problems have been all about legalism and that the grace revolution Rob Rufus has been talking about would lead me into the freedom I've been longing for. And it has, sort of...

I'm now starting to see that the root is much deeper than grace vs legalism. It's that I've been addicted to living a soulish flesh-life rather than learning to live by Spirit-life and the Spirit realities that mark who I really am in Christ. I've been wanting proof before I'll believe it's all really true of me, even in my attempts to appropriate the grace message of Wommack, Rufus and McVey. As I've listened, read and prayed through stuff from these guys, I've been trying to stuff and squash my soul to fit what they say, when the key is really seeing that all they've been seeing is already true of me in my spirit, its just unseen. But what's unseen is more real than what is seen, and is the ultimate truth about me - much truer than what my heart, soul and body constantly tell me!

As you say, this is something that is endemic to the UK scene - so much of what goes on is of, from and satisfies the soul and flesh rather of the spirit. We don't really know the difference between them, so we hold on to our religious notions of separation and independence.

This addiction to soul life has precisely been the block to letting Spirit-life and reality flow out to all parts of my life. The unseen is blocked from operating for precisely as long as I keep looking for proof that it's there in all the places I've been looking. So i'm giving up on looking and just accepting that I really am crucified with Christ, have been made one spirit with him and that it is no longer I who live but Christ in me, the hope of glory.

The "sin who dwells in me" of my flesh, that Satan-empowered part that still loves to try and make me believe that nothings really changed, can kick and scream all it wants. I'm not paying attention, and instead looking to Christ who is my life. And that is most definitely "really bad for my flesh life!"

Chris Welch - 07000INTUNE said...

Jon, I've written two replies and something in my IE is snaffling all Google blogging activities. It must be infected or something so I'm using other browsers.

i just wanted to say the obvious for other readers..."Bad for my flesh life" is like a bad ironic joke.

It is true that following the Way means we are led by Christ's life in us and for a while He can take us quite opposite routes from our comfort zones...not necessarily for permanence, but to do a cutting away of that bit of our "comfort" that is derived from the delusion of the "independent self".
This was the whole reasoning behind the march through the wilderness by the Israelites. God never intended for them to stay in the Wilderness. I think we can agree staring at all the shells of the previous Moves of God : methodism, Brethrenism,Congregationalism,Quakerism....that unless quickened in these days by the Spirit...as indeed many are being, really they are all historic shells left behind by the Spirit's, at the time , living instructions to the then people of God. But the moves never got beyond the "wilderness stage" and the relics remain to this day.

All flesh life is , is falling back into delusional independent thinking again...forgetting that Christ has done a complete transfer at the Cross in our spirits, and that our souls and bodies were never the sum of us, but merely the lampshade through which He shines.
If you take a step back, you'll find most of today's UK churches dont know of themselves as spiritual beings and Paul's opposite injunction applies to them totally "they very much view people after the flesh". They call a person's soul and body them.This is only the surface.

Most bodies in the UK are huge "soul-linkups", and when things go wrong, as they inevitably do with that belief system, and as the devil makes sure they do....people blow out from each other, like a bomb dividing them....
but really all along it was the idolatry of this soul-linking.

The truth as you have said...is that since the Cross, we are ALL ONE. There's nothing we can do about it. Christ's work was sooooo complete. We cannot add to it. We cannot hold ecumenical meetings about it. We cannot even mature into it....as every single Spirit-filled meeting shows. God's Presence comes down and reveals that in Christ we are already One.

We only walk in this more and more fulltime by believing in what Christ has already done...we cannot "work towards it".

Jon Sidnell said...

Hey Chris, I got the tone of sarcasm at the end - you're talking to someone who's second language is sarcasm ;)

Sorry if i hijacked the thread with random ranting. It's just I caught that line and realised precisely what the Spirit has been doing in me this last year or so is breaking down this flesh life, and all I've been saying inside is "You mean all the supports and structure I've built up as principles in my soul are really just dead flesh?? Come on, that took a lot of effort, and now you say even those acts of effort only strenghten sin? It's really all about fixing my eyes in faith on what Christ has already done? Well, that's very bad for my flesh, but maybe Paul really meant it when he said we're to put no confidence in the flesh. Who'd have thought we're actually supposed to believe the Bible!"

I so wanted to capture that moment of realisation *somewhere*, I chose the closest place to rant :)