Chris Welch uses Designer Pro 365 to illustrate all 3rd level concepts

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Sunday, 3 November 2013

Through Eyes Of Fire Series by Daniel Yordy: Kathy Macdonald speaks....

I don't know of any book which pushes back any more of the internal boundaries of seeing, and out from there into the whole of the world around than this book.
Perhaps some would suggest others, but as one who also counts himself as a person who listens inside heaven's door for the next corporate Word to the church, and has done so since being baptised in the Spirit in 1972, I know of none.


Before we commence this series which I have intended to do for about a month, something occurred over the weekend that I felt was a real key. You see unless you happen to be a student of Jacob Boehme from the 1600s or Fenelon, Guyon or Molinos, this inner trek into Christ might seem really bizarre. Many are the people in both the evangelical and charismatic movements who actually decry it.
In the evangelical church anything outside of the immediate grasp of the thin portion of our leftbrain frontal cortex known as our conscious step by step thinking and articulating mind, is considered as bogus. But in the charismatic wing where this "moving out beyond" is the norm, otherwise known as true repentance or "meta- noia"..moving beyond the nous  (pronounced NOWCE)...it is still largely regarded as navel gazing. In both wings of the church there is a deep distrust that we can ever rely on the deepest parts of our heart to know anything. And this is sad, because that precise area is where we get to really know everything, if we are going to know a matter at all.

Both this blog, and  thirdlevel teaching is not some fad, some passing fancy. As yet, it is in fact just the size of a cloud as big as a man's hand. But as more and more race inward and actually perform what was prophesied about the end generation in Psalm 110 and Psalm 24.....reference finding the order of Melchizedek, and seeking the face of God like Jacob at Peniel....
the more people are going to be "splitting the atom".

Splitting the atom ...
is a Chris Welch jargon phrase which refers back to something I said to  Barbara Rogerson in Romford. I felt the small groups who were starting to work with the thirdlevel revelation of Galations 2:20 were exactly like the scientists in the USA who were working on splitting the atom during the 1939-45 War. While the whole of the rest of the military were caught up in the theatre of war...and I use that precise phrase assuredly, these scientists appeared a backroom nonentity. They weren't ofcourse, as history shows. You could say the same equally about the cracking of the code of the Enigma machine at Bletchley Park, for they were the ones who laid many of the ground rules for all computing to come.
But the Americans ofcourse came up with the Hiroshima bomb which ended the war. The third level is the actual operation of the born again Christ life. It may look small but it is the actual key as Norman Grubb shares, to everything. It's a huge glory explosion waiting to go off!


The third level is HERE NOW. It was always here. It was the pattern behind Abraham , Isaac and Jacob. It was the pattern behind the three sections of Moses existence. It was what shaped Elijah and Elisha. It's the difference between the 2 anointed men, Saul and David. 
But in corporate form now it is tiny weeny, a person here and a person there.
It's the story behind Graham Pulkingham who then went on to the UK to lay one of the first real foundations of an interconnected Spirit Church as family together.
Hey , Chris, you say..."We've got that!"
I might have said that at Emsworth Church. I was chucked out.
Paul Noble said it to me a few weeks ago in a little pioneer church in Fareham, but then was squeezed out.

No, most people who adopt the phrase Family Church try (possibly unknowingly) to mimic Graham Pulkingham, but without the Hebrews 4 slice down the middle of your being that he experienced on a cold crypt floor in the Church of the Redeemer Houston.
That Abraham too experienced as he looked at carcases split in two and saw a supernatural flaming torch hovering between them.
No Family Churches you don't yet have a clue. A Spirit family church is one where each individual has a Galatians 2:20 consciousness. The Fisherfolk who travelled around with Graham Pulkingham had an early measure of this and ministered out from it.
This is something only the Holy Spirit can work within us.
So in this context I include Kathy's recent experiences which she shared this weekend on Facebook.


  • Kathy McDonald

    Hi to every one. I have scrolled back and read all the posts here. A lot of great insights for sure ! Cathy I will be praying for you. But also for all here in this thread. I love what was said about agreeing to covenant prayer for each other. That was just beautiful ! Rich what you said here "and I know God is using her to wake many up in many ways right now, " You know I found the exact same thing right from the beginning with everything with Matthew as well. My mind has been blown away to even think on the amazing things that has happened since the day that Matthew was rushed to sick childrens that night. There has been relationships healed. People turning to prayer and admittedly saying they have seen God at work and these people would never of thought of praying or even mentioning "God" in any way before that day. There has been an overwhelming sense of love displayed between people that have not even spoken for years. It's like I have been standing in the background on the sidelines and just watching the incredible things the Lord has done in so many people's lives through all this. The most amazing thing is , my first husband whom I have not been with since 1979 remarried mamy years ago. And he has two children with his second wife. I have always received his new wife and children with love. Invited them to my home many times for family gatherings that involved our children etc.. BUT in all the years that they have been together his wife has always lived in fear that I wanted him back. Even though she was told many times that she has nothing to fear. She never in all the years would even speak to me. Her/their children would not speak to me even though they are my children's siblings. But through all this I have only ever shown love towards them. FINALLY, this new wife has come to the conclusion she has nothing to fear. First thing she did when at the hospital was hug me. BEFORE ANYONE ELSE. She is on my FB as is her children. They have been private messaging me all the time. The daughter has even been praying in private message with me. She seems to be reaching out to God through me. My son says about all this "about time, it only took 25 years for her to talk to you" lol BUT I know for what purposes there is , God our Father is working in this whole situation with Matthew in a lot more ways than I even know. I could tell at least ten stories or more of different things that have happened through all this. I definitely would never want this to happen to Matthew or anyone else but God definitely was and is moving upon everyone's hearts and lives.
  • Kathy McDonald
    Kathy McDonald

    Also Rich I believe you are onto something about one after another having eye issues. A few days ago I was pondering about this. All the eye issue's. Like there is something God is wanting us to see. Or to open our seeing to deeper revelation. I have been pondering many things about this. This scripture you quoted really struck me. Especially the last sentence. " All of us, then, who are mature should take SUCH A VIEW of things. And if on some point (such as this one) you think differently, that too GOD WILL MAKE CLEAR to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained. Philippians 3:15-16 "
  • Kathy McDonald
    Kathy McDonald

    Frances and Susan. I don't know if this will mean anything to you or not but I feel deeply that I must share something with you. So many many times over the years that I have been a Christian I have went through what I always used to call dry times. Times of silence. Not hearing a word. Not sensing nothing. Not feeling nothing. Just nothing. I USED TO think there was something wrong with me in these times. Sometimes these times of silence seemed to go on forever. To the point of even wondering whether to go on or not. But always something would all of a sudden happen that would break the silence. Sometimes it would just one word from Him. But always after these times I would be taken into a deeper revelation/relationship with the Lord. I have thought through all these things many times over and wondered about why we have to go through these most devastating times of silence. As I looked back over these times I have seen that during these times I go through changes. I begin to long to hear from the Lord. It is like after a time I get to a place where I care about nothing else except to hear from the Lord. It is like my heart lets go of life itself and in desperation and in deep deep longing cry out to the Lord. "I just want to hear you Lord" !!! And then I will !!!! When I least expect it and is always so overwhelming that I can hardly stand it. I have seen though at the other end of these times of silence there is deep spiritual growth. A seeing that I didn't see before. I have wondered why Lord? I believe our hearts have to be able to receive this deeper revelation. We have to be taken to a place where our only desire is Him. It is like we have to be "prepared" ahead of time to receive a deeper revelation . AND JUST NOW when I was pondering all that I was going to say here, I took a break and was thinking of all of it. I knew in my heart and mind what I wanted to say but didn't know how to say it WHEN IN AN INSTANT THE LORD SPOKE AND SAID "absence makes the heart grow stronger" !!!!!!! And I began to laugh and I mean literally laugh out loud and I said "short and sweet eh Lord?" What I take paragraphs to say you say in one short and sweet sentence !!! LOL But that is true. Exactly what I was trying to say in my many words !!! And then HE shows up !!!! I know I will go through many more times of silence as well. I no longer think there is anything wrong with me though. I just know I am in for a DEEPER REVELATION OF HIM !! A DEEPER RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM !!!!
  • Kathy McDonald
    Kathy McDonald

    LIKE A LOVER LONGING FOR HER LOVE !!!
  • Frances N. MyGene Ashcroft
    Frances N. MyGene Ashcroft

    Yes, Kathy!!! Beautiful longing..........given to us BY HIM....FOR HIM.....
  • Kathy McDonald
    Kathy McDonald

    CORRECTION: When the Lord spoke He said "ABSENSE MAKES THE HEART GROW FONDER". I accidently put in the word stronger instead. It surely makes a difference in the intention of the times of silence with the word "fonder" and not "stronger",,,,,sorry
  • Nancy Gilmore
    Nancy Gilmore

    Chris you ARE a form of Christ.
  • Saturday
  • Susan SpecialGem Ryan
    Susan SpecialGem Ryan

    Thank you Kathy. I was thinking after I posted this that I used the expression feeling ''dead'' but when I went to bed last night the Lord told me that I am isolated and this isolation feels as if I am cut off but inside there is also a great hope of what is coming. So what you say is verification of this. It seems that there is always a time of great testing (which I have had in the last two weeks) and yes at times you come to the point of thinking ''what am I doing wrong, have I missed it somewhere''' while it seems that the people in the circumstances are winning against us and we keep having to forgive and surrender and trust that no matter how things appear that it is not how it is spiritually. So no matter what thoughts come to my mind I just keep surrendering and asking the Lord to bring me through all of this and do something amazing that I could absolutely never have come up with myself! I don't want to be that smart--I want to see the Lord do this all even if it makes me appear that I am ''buying'' what is going on in the people who think they have all the control and ability to manipulate! I am loving the idea of God working in such a way that He is glorified through this! Me--I can just shut up for a change and stop trying to figure everything out for myself. Shut up and wait is what I need to do!!! I am doing it!
  • Frances N. MyGene Ashcroft
    Frances N. MyGene Ashcroft

    Susan, hello. I can honestly relate to what you just shared. Chances are, we ALL here can relate, because we are ALL so connected .... I agree, that often we "appear" like outcasts....and maybe we are outcasts from the man-made system, but we are IN CHRIST, and truly, that's what matters most.
    When once I asked the Lord, "Where do I fit, Lord?" He said, " You fit perfectly IN ME". Selah.......
  • Cathy Rheeder
    Cathy Rheeder

    Be-u-ti-ful Fran.
  • Kathy McDonald
    Kathy McDonald

    Susan I love what you said "Me-I can just shut up for a change and stop trying to figure everything out for myself".. Because that is exactly what I did. And you know Frances is right. We ALL here go through the same things. And all feel the same way at times. It was when I gave up is when everything began to change for me. I just decided one night that I could do nothing. Say nothing. Think nothing. Just said to the Lord "I am your responsibility. I can't do it no more. And that is exactly where He wanted me to be. I just began to realize that He said He would finish the work He began in me and He is no liar. I looked up and said if you are creator of all that I see then surely you can finish the work you began in me. Then I just stopped trying. Just began to believe Him. That is also when I began to read The Jesus Secret that Daniel Yordy wrote and that truly helped to set me free from me. Now when I begin to have thoughts along the line of something being wrong with me etc. I just instantly say "NO" ! and purposely put my mind on other things. REFUSING to allow those negative thoughts to get a hold of my mind. I have had enough of that "crap" lol (my paraphrase) lol You know the old saying that when someone tells a lie and says it enough they actually begin to believe it is true? That is how the enemy deceives us. By telling us lies and after hearing them enough we begin to believe they are true. But they are still just lies. It also works the other way around. When we speak outloud what God says then we do begin to see it as True. The Jesus Secret is exceptional. I tried reading it all at once but then had to just do the daily day by day and saying outloud what God says. I really began to recognize the lies of the enemy. And there are many !!!! One thing I have come to SEE CLEARLY is that Jesus was crucified BEFORE the foundation of the world. The cross was finished. When our Father see's us HE SEE'S us IN the finished work of the Cross of Christ. We WERE (PAST TENSE) CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST. WE WERE (past tense) resurrected WITH CHRIST. IN HIM WE LIVE AND MOVE AND HAVE OUR BEING. OUR LIFE IS HID IN CHRIST. Nothing can change that. Not the enemies lies. Not our emotions or how we feel at any given time. NOTHING. Jesus HAS COME AGAIN IN THE FLESH. WE are God's flesh in the world. When Jesus is silent to us it is only to bring us to a place of deep deep longing in order to bring us into a deeper revelation/relationship with Him. For a long long time I never really understood the Song of Songs. Have you seen my love? Why would Jesus hide from us? But there is one thing I have come to realize too. He is ALWAYS WITH US. We feel like He has left but HE is closer to us than anything even when He is silent. I have even stopped (for the most part) "praying" like I used to.. Now I talk to Jesus. In my normal way of speaking. I don't look for fancy words. I heard Him say to me "I've got this one Kathy" when I was deeply concerned about Matthew. Now when I begin to "worry" or be "fearful" I just say "you got this one right Lord". Instantly the fear leaves. Yesterday while at work there was some things that concerned me. And while I was pondering these things the Lord said "you are my responcibity. I will work it out my way" I stopped thinking about those things completely. Later in the day I saw the Lord "fix" those things. It was amazing. I began to laugh and said even "there ! I have nothing to worry about ! It's all up to the Lord to look after. Even the little little things". Instantly I heard Him say "this is between you and me Kathy. You tell no one". It was an amazing amazing day. Jesus showed me He is right here , right now , at all times. And even the little things is His ! He is a real person !!! He is real and WITHIN YOU AND WITHIN ME AND WITHIN ALL OF US !!! He will never leave us !!!! We belong to JESUS !!! And we are IN HIM AND HE IS IN THE FATHER !!! It is wonderful to have a REAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM !!! Just talking like you would to anyone. No pretense. No phoniness. Just BEING ! He wants our heart. That's all. He accepts us AS IS. Period ! If you knew me personally in my living invironment here. There is NOTHING special about me. I sure don't LOOK or ACT spiritual. To me that is phoniness. I AM who I AM . That's all. I AM perfect because HE IS PERFECT IN ME. And that is WHO OUR FATHER SEE'S !!! And if someone comes to my door and my hair is messed up and I don't look my best . I don't care !!! It is JESUS IN ME that answers that door. And they are welcome to come in and see my messy house too !!! And if they are hungry they are welcome to have whatever I have. It all belongs to the Lord. It's just about being REAL !!! The ONLY thing I know for sure is we can't get comfortable in our spiritual growth. (and this is not about doing anything) it is just about KNOWING THE FATHER AND HIS SON JESUS CHRIST. For any that thinks "I have made it" and they get comfortable and stop seeking to go into a deeper more intimate relationship then they will just stay where they are. We will never come to the end of KNOWING GOD. For me those times of not hearing the Lord is the worst times ever !!!! But at the same time they are the best times, because even when it feels like I am hitting my head against a brick wall and I can't seem to break through, I know that my break through will come !!!! And I will see and know Him in a way I have never seen or known Him in my life !!! My last time of not hearing "much" lasted all most three years. I hated it. Kept wondering "why Lord?" BUT IT WAS THE BEGINING OF RECEIVING REVELATION OF THE THIRD LEVEL OF KNOWING !!!! Who knew??? I didn't !!!!! Before that I thought "what else is there Lord?" I know there is still MORE !!!! I also NOW SEE you can't put NEW WINE in OLD WINE SKINS !!! I had to get rid of the old wine skin first. This I know. Just before entering into this knew way of seeing. I got to the place where I didn't care if I lived or died. I just WANTED JESUS ! And that is when HE showed me a deeper revelation of HIM. I had broke through that brick wall AT LAST !!! There has been some major changes in how I live as well. Basically living in the moment. Paying attention the moments. The little things. This is becoming easier and easier. But at the same time I am SEEING Him more in the moments. Even for the past year (don't know how to explain it really) but little things that I desire or like. Without even thinking about it, I will receive it. Even if it is something I like to eat but can't afford it. I will all of a sudden see it at a greatly reduced price. And I know it is a gift from the Lord. Not that I need it. And not just about food. Just different little things in my every day life. It is as Daniel Yordy says. "We will have favor with God". Maybe I got too comfortable in the place I was in the second level of knowing God that it took three years of virtual silence to push me into the deeper level of knowing Him. And I know I am just in the beginning. But this I know that all through that time I could sense that there was MORE. I JUST DIDN'T KNOW HOW to know that MORE. It truly was like hitting my head against a brick wall. I kept saying there was more. That I was missing something but didn't know what I was missing?? It had to be a heart change for me. I had to let go of EVERYTHING. That no matter what , all I wanted was to know Jesus. I was still holding onto me. I was still "trying" to die to self. I didn't know I was already dead. I had been crucified with Christ on HIS CROSS. I was still believing the lies. And I am not saying it is like this for you or for anyone. I am just sharing what I went through and what I experienced in my hope that it helps someone. Even ONE. That is why it says to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. We each have our own walk and our own relationship. And we are each unique. I pray that no one has to go through the hell I went through for those three years. But I will never forget the night that brick wall came crashing down all around me and I was set free and was now able to SEE reality ! Like I said I am still in the beginning of seeing but it is precept upon precept from Glory to Glory !! One step at a time. Sometimes feels like baby steps. Sometimes seems like taking two steps forward and one step back. But I am always moving forward. And some days I don't even want to get out of bed. All I want to do is stay in bed with the covers pulled over my head. There always seems to be so much turmoil going on around me. But I just have to remember that in the midst of the storm there is a SON OF GOD IN THE BOAT WITH ME ! And as He is in the world so am I !!! There are times when I still try to work things out myself. Those times are mostly failures. But the times when I truly truly just give it all to Jesus and let Him work it out. He has never never failed me yet. Might not always be exactly the way I wanted it. But is ALWAYS exactly right ! The thing that is getting easier and easier for me though is "casting down the lies of the accuser" . I heard the Lord say to me one afternoon while in my kitchen "satan has nothing in you". I believe it !!! He keeps trying though. Satan is a liar and a thief ! I like what that one sermon I listened to said "a thief never ever aquires ownership ! "
  • Annalize Mouton
    Annalize Mouton

    I so love what you shared here, Kathy!!!!!! Thank you so very much!
  • Susan SpecialGem Ryan
    Susan SpecialGem Ryan

    Kathy, thank you. Everything you said is right. Have gone through all of those same emotions even finally saying I DON'T CARE WHETHER I LIVE OR DIE JUST WANT JESUS. Thank you for sharing this. I had so many challenges happen to me the last two weeks, that I got sick. I got the flu last night so I have no choice but to sit still and listen. But I still kept surrendering all this stuff to God and praying a blessing upon the people responsible and keep doing it until I have totally let this stuff all go. It will actually be kind of fun watching how all of this is worked out on my behalf!
  • Kathy McDonald
    Kathy McDonald

    My heart is just so full of love for Jesus ! That is why I came back on just now. As I was putting around the house listening to a sermon, I just kept thinking of how very much I love Jesus. Then I realized the most important thing I wanted to say here but forgot to say was that through all of this ... the most important thing that has happened is that "I HAVE BEEN FALLING IN LOVE WITH JESUS" !!! It is like nothing I have ever experienced. I thought I loved Him before. It isn't about me ! Or anything in my life about me. It is all about Jesus ! It is like my heart is bursting wide open ! I see HIM differently. It is no longer about what He can do for me. Or anything else. It is about HIM. About who HE IS !! What HE HAS DONE ALREADY ! The only way I can describe it is that I have been filled with LOVE from the Father and From Jesus and ALL I WANT TO DO IS GIVE HIM THAT SAME LOVE !!! I want HIM to be all that HE INTENDED TO BE, and DEEPLY DESIRES TO BE IN ME AND IN YOU AND IN ALL OF US. You know in Daniels writing he said "no one gives a damn about God !!" At first this was surprising. But the more I thought about it I realized HOW TRUE THAT STATEMENT IS !! When I was "all about me" I had NO THOUGHTS about what God needed. Or desired. I didn't give a damn about God. I saw God as this unfeeling almighty God who didn't need feelings. Except I wanted Him to love me enough to give me every thing my heart desires "in this world". I feel literally ill to think about how I used to see my Heavenly Father !!! Now I truly see God as LOVE. He has DESIRES ! That is what I now care about ! And within those desires STANDS EACH ONE OF US !! Yes Daniel "I give a Damn about God" That has deffinately changed in my seeing. Since that one night that the wall came crashing down, I am seeing more and more God's LOVE for humanity. God's love for me. And something new. MY LOVE FOR HIM. It's incredible ! Can I say I really knew love before. Or walked in the true reality of His love. I don't know the answer to that question. But how did I get here without it in some measure. How did I deeply desire Jesus without Love. ONLY GOD !
  • Kathy McDonald
    Kathy McDonald

    Susan I don't know if it is the same for you or not but when I came to the place of complete surrender , it wasn't me praying and giving anything to God. It was just saying "it's all yours". Then doing nothing. It is true what scripture says "be still and know that I am God". I was so at the end that I did nothing. I was empty. I did not even want to think any more so I stopped thinking. I refused to think anything. I refused to do anything. I just got up in the morning. Committed the day to Jesus and then went about my normal day. I was just tired. Too tired to even think. But it was in the doing nothing that I found total surrender. I'm nut successful in this all day every day. But it is getting better day by day. Now I want to think all the time. But only on Jesus and heavenly things !
  • Kathy McDonald
    Kathy McDonald

    suppose to say "I'm not successful in this all day every day." LOL maybe the word "nut" is better lol
    I love you Annalize. You have been such a blessing to me and to multitude other here. Some day I really would like to come visit you ! If God wills.
  • Annalize Mouton
    Annalize Mouton

    Would so love to have you visit me, Kathy!!!!! All of you!!!!
  • Nancy Gilmore
    Nancy Gilmore

    and my door is always open but let me know so I can hire someone to come and clean, please!
  • Joan Reilly
    Joan Reilly

    You all might as well settle you are coming to Las Vegas. I just know that!
    Okay????
    God's going to bring you!
  • Cathy Rheeder
    Cathy Rheeder

    I identify with everything Kathy, yet not I but Christ. Love to u all.

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