Tuesday 8 November 2011

Things I don't Believe In plus 20th Century Potted History

Things I don't Believe In by Chris Welch

by Chris Welch on Saturday, 29 October 2011 at 12:18
I don't believe in spiritual process.
At spirit level everything was complete when Jesus cried, "It is finished"
If a priest or vicar talks about process in relation to "spirit" it is because
he/she is using the Radio 4 definition of spirit, which means "the esoteric/spiritual part of our soul"
and in the next breath will refer to music and philosophy.
This is Greek thinking.   Kingdom thinking defines spirit as not of this creation so cannot be seen.
God breathed into Adam who became a Living Soul. It was this bit of us that began
totally connected to God,then became connected  to another spirit, the spirit of Death.

When we "see" the salvation of our God on the Cross, we are making ours the "It is finished"
on that Cross.And "we are transferred in our experience, from the Kingdom of Darkness to the Kingdom of Light"

ALL SALVATION is this one thing: Stand Still and SEE the salvation of your God!  All Parts of that salvation too.
The two physical things that appear : Breaking of Bread and Baptism in Water   are so that our bodies
taste and touch something while we are seeing.

I don't believe in seeing people after the flesh.
Someone who believes in spiritual process stil sees everything after the flesh.
All that progresses is that we become firmer on our outsides with what has already
happened 2000 years ago for EVERY HUMAN BEING ON THE PLANET on our insides.

I don't believe in ministries that speak about the Son
I believe in ministries that speak in the Name of the Son

If you dont know Christ as you  (Galations 2:20)  you definitely shouldn't be wasting my time
by talking at me in a third party way. If I want that kind of talk, BBC Radio4 specialise in it.

I dont believe in female ministries
I believe in the above: people like Nancy Gilmore and Andrea Garzon who
know Christ as them. So it is not a lady ministry...it is a male ministry
with a skirt on...or maybe jeans....or maybe tracksuit.

Get me:It's not a lady trying to behave masculine at a surface level...
I am speaking Spirit. The Male is Jesus.

I don't believe in the time it takes to "get firmer"
If maturity is simply being firm in Who you know at your centre, the Son of God,
then I believe the game is up as far as the rest of time is concerned ever since
the gospels.
What do I mean?
Abraham,Isaac and Jacob took 3 complete lifetimes to lay the spiritual foundation
of the "new"   God  in flesh -  incarnation gospel. All three laid the seeds of
revelation that all believers walk in themselves when they follow the Holy Spirit.
For more information read books like "Sit,Walk,Stand" by Watchman Nee

But then Jesus came  and blew the whole sequence for all time
Admittedly the disciples were Jews, so generations of background were there already
but even so, by just "seeing what His Father was doing" and speaking the Word
Jesus took a ragamuffin bunch of 12 right through to Father level ministry in 3 years.

Now I know it all takes as long as it takes. You just cannot engineer processes for growth
of a human being.

But this is where I completely disagree with the self-imposed limitations of those pioneering
the Galations 2:20 truths. Because I know something they don't.Which sounds cocky
so I'll say it again.

I know something none of them know.For if they did, they'd be busting their gut and
flaming well telling people about it.

When Jesus blew the whole system and compressed three lifetimes of revelation,
the God of Abraham,Isaac, and Jacob revelation in to only 3 years

and then said

It is to your advantage I go away, I will send My Comforter who will
take what is mine and reveal it to you

It wasnt so that Nick Cabbiness could feel complete and accelerated in knowledge
concerning his own life, having the Father, the Son and the Spirit all tucked up
in union with his spirit........

Nope...I have some very very sad news for the generation of DeeDee Winter
and Fred Pruitt, and John Bunting and Sylvia Pearce and Nancy Gilmore

who, like me....bless us all have battled through in a totally solitary fashion.

Well, maybe as they are older they can now go to their graves knowing they have done their
little bit, and now is the time for putting their slippers on and enjoying the grand kids or great grand kids.
It is just too difficult trying to train people past a certain age...you cant teach old dogs new tricks.

I don't believe John 17 was ever meant in a solitary way at all
We are now going into territory the old saint Norman Grubb didnt get hold of at all. His teaching is foundational,
because unless each individual is established as Christ as them, you can forget any manifest form of church.
It's just a club with a Jesus flag.

But in the 50 years Norman was digging like a French boar hunting down the Galations 2:20 truffle and how it works
he was missing a heck of a lot of other building bricks that the Spirit was bringing forth.

Here are some components.
When God called "our generation of  priesthood".....we were a flesh priesthood  in Woodstock and my links are simply all the influences affecting us as we were growing up. But we were a priesthood. We had a sense of community already. When the Holy Spirit anointed a whole generation of hippies, there were a certain set of community values that are not there

in sextagenarian slipperbound  American saints, quite happy in their own castles.  From the word go, if corporately we sensed to pray for someone or a group, we would, and they would be converted by the next week. But the value was love. From the heart. Bubbling up after a mighty baptism in the Spirit. It's not an afterthought, event organised prayer bash, it issued from the heart.

Praise and worship was taught by revelation.
The Holy Spirit taught how He runs meetings. And no they are nothing like Zerubbabel meetings were.(Early kind of "encounter style meetings" which took that form because Southern Baptists had hooked onto Galations 2:20 but had no idea that to run a Jesus meeting requires that you are baptised in the Holy Spirit.)
We learned we were a co priesthood , and even functioning together as we were in limited belief systems, because we were functioning from full hearts, the power Jesus exercised through us was...quite frightening actually. Goodness knows what is coming in the Church.

We lived fulltime together
In a Non Baptised in the Spirit setting Norman Grubb was familiar with cohabitation as missionaries together. Our community values were put to extreme test as we not only lived and worked together but worshipped morning and evening in various formats. Now here is the missing ingredient, some of which is being worked out in Facebook right now across the whole earth.
Christ in His Body, forms Christ in individuals. By form, I mean makes "firm" identity of that which occurs at the Cross, and has happened at the centre of their being as soon as a person believes.  The Child of Promise is being born within them. All the things which Christ's LIGHT in the Body expose in someone as

to use Francois's and Andre's words
as NON-AUTHENTIC to The Father's original design

come under the Floodlight.

For us, so used to them, we consider this is us. One of the reasons outside of  a gathered closely regularly meeting up bunch known as the Body of Christ,
growth in Christ doesn't take 10 years
doesnt take 30 years
it's more flippin like 60 -70 years  in non Baptised in the Spirit churches

I'll say again, I do not believe since the gospels, growth in Christ should take very long at all.

or clearer, I dont believe growth according to HolySpirit "Body methods and principles" working out of a Christ-Me foundation of Galations 2:20 takes long at all

I don't believe we walk in the Light as it means in 1 John

I dont believe we even touch heaven when most believers gather for worship

I dont believe more than 2% of believers yet know what the gospel really is

I dont believe the church gathered in its present ignorance about who Christ has made her, even constitutes the word "ecclesia" or church. It's some kind of man made club.

For everybody's claim about being Bible believing they certainly dont believe the three stages clearly spelled out in John's epistle chapter 2. So more clearly:
I dont believe that anyone in ministry in the UK now apart from Paul Anderson Walsh has any clue about the Three Stages of Growth
that's not the same as saying there those who don't know, it's saying I don't know anyone in ministry doing what they were called to do in the terms of 1 John2.

I dont believe there is a church in Britain that understands their role in 1 Peter 2:9 terms
We are not an old Covenant priesthood.
We are not a priesthood that is just a bunch "talking about the priesthood of the Son of God " and how glorious it is.
This is what Francois DuToit restricts the meaning of this passage to, because he doesn't frequent real priesthoods. He spends a lot of his time with traditional churches and then secondlevellers who haven't a clue about who they are in Christ.
Once he has visited for a few years and imparted to that  "young man" or "secondlevel" church (1John 2) who they really are, and they grab it...he'll get the shock of his life when 3rdlevel churches really do emerge, using the seed form priesthood things we learned 20,30 40 years ago, but in a 3rd level way. In other words
As there's been no chance of Francois's feathers being ruffled by anything that's out there currently, he's built his Priesthood theology around what he understands of the writings of Hebrews, and not what he knows by experience of how the HOLY SPIRIT exports that same Melchizedek function here on earth to open things up and close them down.
All he sees is the desperate nights of prayer where people "heap up (tongues) like the Gentiles do" thinking if they fill enough hours God's arm can be twisted. Can someone please take Francois to a genuine Holy Spirit meeting where people are operating as Co-sons out of rest?

I dont believe Havant Church want anything more than a traditional sort of revival sweeping Britain.
So this is a one or two level revival, one or two stage revival, as we have always had. People are converted. people are filled with the Spirit, but at no stage does the "fly in the ointment get touched". At no point does the original problem of the Fall in Genesis 3 get referred to . A revival where nobody ever gets to know who they were at the seat of their being and who Christ has now made tham at the seat of their being.In other words the devil sits in his chair quite happily with a Jesus Christ cap on.2-10 years later he has risen corporately from his chair and smashed the whole revival as a fifth column.
The difference in Acts is this. Many were afraid of having anything to do with them. Only those who meant business ever joined! The Romans were bad enough...but then there was that AWESOME PRESENCE that you just didnt mess around in...and the odd people were slain.

I dont believe we have the first clue how to train ministries
If John 17 is the "passing out parade", the pinnacle teaching and even ALL the people on the net are talking about it in Christ as ME terms....I dont believe we have a clue as to what ministry is.

MINISTRY IS THE TRANSPLANTATION OF A CORPORATE JOHN 17.  It is to quote Ern Baxter the Projection of the Community of the Trinity into a time Space World.
Funnily enough  Los Rios de Vida churches, and our own Peter Stott are the closest you can get to this while remaining ignorant as to what the gospel is and still preaching schizophrenia. So you can imagine how I've been for years swaddled in ducttape in Peter's meetings gesticulating wildly in a Fred Pruitt direction, then trying to get Fred Pruitt to look in a Peter Stott direction   for the Vision  of a corporate transplantation of John 17.  Many years in I've managed to at least gnaw of the edges of the duct tape and make muffled noises at least to both parties.  Duct tape screaming can be very off-putting I've found!  The noises don't entirely come out as human.

And Nancy Gilmore knitting socks and doing childcare IS NOT IT.  Many of our era have had to pioneer things alone. So did Abraham Isaac and Jacob..... but after the NAME change revelation
Everything WENT CORPORATE   (not Macdonalds corporate, but  1 Corinthians 12, the Book of Ephesians corporate)

A Body born and raised in fusion communicates that Galations 2:20 paradigm in every "hath a" or "gift" they pass to one another . This is already happening on the net. Just wait until something like Casa Biblicas, or groups of called out on...es live that through with each other a bit. Whether that can ever happen so effectively on Facebook where you can always run and hide where things get too near the knuckle?
Sketch of the norm the Holy Spirit is restoring from strands all over the world:

1Elders male and female,
2.Grounded and rooted in the processes of Romans and Galations 2:20
3. in little "temporary" booths with no human roof,
4. called together by the Spirit for 1,4,10 years,
... 5 with those grounded imparting this Word and the vision of booths, or flexible structures and new eunuch leadership style
6 where each member is encouraged to "supply" in the Spirit too
7 In other words a sped up,normalized church vision version of what has so far taken decades using Norman methods
Norman's transplantaion methods come straight out of Cambridge and not out of "Not by might,Nor by Power, But by my Spirit says the Lord"
8. All the 3rd level Spirit knowledge of Ed Miller, Jorge Pradas, David Swan and countless other 20 th Century pioneers like John G Lake twinned with Fred Pruitt "As He is so are we in the world" in one corporate not individual package. So that John 17 actually looks like something on Earth.
9.Just as Jacob at Peniel summed up "individual" revelation which then went corporate, so the great Louisville meetings were the summing up and conclusion of a pioneering on an individual level.But even there, as individuals gathered, a"manifestation of an early form of John 17 occured".

There are not two Spirits of God. A Norman Grubb Holy Spirit of God. And a Jorge Pradas/Ed Miller Holy Spirit of God. God IS One.
Brief  Sketch of the 20th Century
I've always said, so much confusion worldwide has occurred because of what happened the day Jessie Penn Lewis came to visit Norman Grubb.
She came to get him baptised in the Holy Spirit. He caught instead the essence of what she knew, off ...her.
This was "obviously " meant to happen in one of these" God is overall "kind of ways to greater good.
Norman caught the fact that she was Christ-Jessie, and Galations 2:20 became real to him also.This whole incident is so key. The positive offspin was that now a Cambridge brain, or someone like St Paul, could get to articulating what is the essence of spiritual maturity to a generation in the 20s and 30s in England who were either High Church and knew nothing, evangelical and knew quite a lot or lower class and Pentecostal who really couldnt articulate anything, just moved in power.

The second spinoff that occurred that day, was that Galations 2:20, although it could be articulated well in best Cambridge English, it spun off a "weird halfway house" type of Christianity.Had Norman just relinquished his Cambridge educated left-brain filtration system just long enough to have received a baptism in the Spirit, all the Galations 2:20 articulation would have been in its proper Spirit context.
So for the rest of the century you have Galations 2:20 pioneers thinking it normal to hold house debates as some sort of viable form of sharing what is essentially Spirit knowledge.

Conversely you have the developing realm of Holy Spirit knowledge coming out of Pentecostalism now via Selwyn Hughes and Michael Harper into 60s mainstream denominations. But this stream never understood that there were 3 levels of growth in Romans and 1 John 2, and to this day still don't.

Whole merrygorounds of experience are tethered to the 2 level doctrine "Repent, be baptised and receive the Holy Spirit."
The handful of other men feeling very uneasy about the Merrygo round but not quite having Norman's articulation are Ed Miller,David Swan and moves like "Manifest Sons" and Sam Fife "The Move".

The problem with the Galations 2:20 pioneers alongside Norman is the normalising of the verse "Not byMight nor by Power but by my Spirit says the Lord" to mean inspired thought or speech, which comes out of Norman's glitch the day he was with Jessie.

Anyone who is baptised in the Spirit knows out of that one verse emanates everything the Holy Spirit has been restoring to His Own Heritage people concerning
what church is
how it functions
how meetings function
how the Holy Spirit transplants the atmosphere and dwelling place of heaven amongst a group of believers
By somehow teaching that Galations 2:20 "takes us far beyond" these petty things brother, the pioneer groups have shot themselves in the foot, and tried to serve up Spirit on a bed of180 grade sandpaper.

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