Wednesday 10 November 2010


by Chris Welch Facebook Notes Friday, 05 November 2010 at 15:40
I was sharing at a conference centre with Andre Rabe about the 2 GOATS.It was one of those times when you feel something leave you and impact someone/several....not sure. What I do know is Rosie Crawford who is now whizzing round her South African home country asked me to put it down in writing on FB to her. So below this writing is the four or five status Facebook copy, which you can read first or later...or not at all if you want to have some coffee at Starbucks!!
Folks this is huge, I believe. I have just waded through the Heidi Venie podcast messages, which but for the pregnancy tragedy , may just as well be "BOTTLED WELCH" from my rather limited worship leading in Amersham, Germany, Exeter Uni, and Emsworth Church over two decades after my experience of baptism in the Spirit in 1972.

What I'm saying is....the "creatives", the songwriters,the prophetic types,the flaky no earthly good collective, the artists....and I'm temperamentally somewhere in there....are as Darin Hufford has mentioned often....leaving church in their droves. In spiritual terms I call them the tribe of Judah. And when the tribe of Judah break camp, you stop barbecuing right? Even if it's barbecued MANNA. You take notice!!! Or should do.

It is by no means this breed only that know there is something wrong...if anyone is listening attentively I believe the Holy Spirit is unsettling a whole variety of people. It's just the flakies are surface feelies, and they let you know about it immediately. Everyone else has the decorum to shutup longer.


I'm being showered by reader's responses with lots of surface stuff right now....and it probably is true...but not true enough.

Others are holding up their historic hot potatoes at a much deeper level. So it's Arminianism Calvinism.

So it's the way we should be Quaker....or Darby.....

No,'s that we should be pentecostal......or apostolic......or just know our Bibles better like the evangelicals.

It's that we shouldn't go to church......or should go to church.....etc etc etc

What I'm saying now is that the VERY WAY we entered into the WAY OF GOD IS FAULTY. The rather feeble earthly picture of us entering the WAY OF GOD is pictured by the TABERNACLE.

When WAS the last sermon you heard on the 2 GOATS?

And if you are Brethren stock, you will have, but I bet BOTH oF THEM related to "Taking sins away".

So what I'm saying is one was to take sins away, one was to take SIN away. And the rather crushing truth is THE GOATS is by the Admission Office close to the Entrance DOOR.


And the crazy thing is we were let in!!!!!!!

So it's not that some are baptized in the Spirit, and some have the theology of Baptism in the spirit (wo, thorny) no no.....that is all way past the laver into the Holy Place. No what we have is more crushing than that.


Well Sylvia Pearce says when we come to have Communion in any church's only a 50% event.

Nobody understands or more specifically has revelation on anything more than the BLOOD. To forgive sins.

Doesn't matter how charismatic your church is, or how High episcopalean.....this is equally true of Both.


Or if you are a Free Believer, you reverse the concept and say IT IS CHRISTIANITY, BUT NOT THE WAY OF CHRIST.

I couldn't care a fat fig about Free Believerisms or denominationalisms


What I am saying is if you only have one goat, you are condemning the whole of the rest of your Heavenly Tabernacle experience to one limp what Paul would call "menstrual cloth". Rubbish. Dung. Horsepooh.

Why is this relevant? Well you get this happening. You get a Heidi Venie and a Chris Welch being enticed away from true Spirit relationship and outpouring of private intimacy and fresh songs, and you find our" still alive goat" rearing up wanting a bit of recognition and control and stardom.....and hooking into the goat of the pastor /leader group who know they can put their feet up and let the muzos (musicians) entertain the crowd, and already half the service is taken up!!! MAGIC. So what I am saying about Heidi and myself, and a gazillion others is it was SYMBIOTIC this system failure. We can blame others....BUT WE BOUGHT INTO IT.

So what should happen?

It is described below, but let's take bits in slow motion.

The first goat is the absolute, complete for all time forgiveness of what we did, and what we may be doing now, and what we will ever do that is offensive to God. It's a complete death of one whole goat. At the entrance. The first thing you do as a Christian. Sin question . Settled.

The next problem for God is, without resurrecting the first goat, how do you get over that the MAN OF SIN, the SIN PRINCIPLE, the INDWELLING BIAS to SIN, is left behind in hell, by a now empty Body of Jesus after the death on the Cross, with its spirit container opened up, and emptied out in the manner of a rubbish lorry at a waste site, municiipal do you get that over to folk in the middle of a wilderness? Aha!

A second goat. This goat IS NOT to repeat the idea of sins being cast as far as the oceans away from you. You Pentecostals got that wrong.

No this is HUGE! This is what makes Church work! This is what makes Jews even want to come within smelling distance of the tragedy known as Christian Church. This second goat, represents the UTTER annhilation of your sin spirit at your spirit centre. You are a container for spirit, and you have a soul and a body. Your soul and your body have to catch up with what just happened.

But one thing that just happened, is that for the First time in history a set of people larger than ones or twos got themselves thoroughly INITIATED INTO THE NEW COVENANT. Yes for the FIRST TIME. IN every nation that you are reading this.

Not like the Episcopalean church that only talk about the New Covenant, but wouldn't recognise it if the stadium lights were full on. They run this warmed up Jewish affair that neither Jews recognise nor do those born of the Spirit.Neither good for man nor beast.

The Holy Spirit orientated churches wouldn't recognise the New Covenant either, because it has no goat running around tiring out the congregations to the point of breakdown. The charismatic movement needed goats to make it work.

No. I'm announcing something completely radical here. A completely different form of Christianity, which Norman Grubb believed for on his deathbed at 97 or so,15 yearsago.His last of nearly a century of realised successful intercessions.

more Sylvia Pearce details on this subject, but less goats!


The Two Goats picture in the OT Tabernacle- to South African Rosie The scapegoat idea in trad. Circles if it is talked about at all is vaguely referred to as another image of forgiveness.God had a real problem with this one as an image and it was the Nearest way He could explain the two aspects of Jesus death without resurrecting the first goat,which would have been tricky every day in the tabernacle don't you think?

On my blog is a great piece by Sylvia Pearce describing the Body and Blood aspects of Jesus death.No denomination and few others "get" anything about the Communion other than the Blood for forgiveness.The first goat goes up in smoke dying in our place,offering its blood.The second goat describes how Jesus went down into Hades or whatever for us to "lose" the sin spirit that has been passed from generation to generation,and leave it at the lost property door of hellWhen Jesus was RAISED bodily,it was the Holy Spirit who raised Him, but even more incredible WE WERE RAISED IN HIM .So since the second goat at the very entrance to Gods house,I am not only forgiven,MY CENTRAL ME Has changed from Satan or Sin spirit- I to Christ-I.

The 2nd goat means it is NOT I (the former diseased spirit) that live it is (a completely different )Christ fused I that live,and the life I live now I live by the power of the FAITH OF (lit. Greek) Christ.So the communion for us is a much much much greater celebration than anyone could have ever imagined.It is both the Blood forgiveness and the Body death replacement of me totally....well my spirit. My heart mind and will and body have to spend a time readjusting to the new reality!!!!

For me,the issue in the church today IS NOT to go out and form a FREE BELIEVERS group,tho I quite understand it.It is NOT to post articles on KUNDULINI(someone today on FB) and familiar spirits,tho you can if you want....the issue is so is that most of the people in churches today haven't the first clue about what Jesus has done for them in being their 2nd goat.Get that right,no more parachurch FREE believers,No more Kundilini....Only believers 100% clear on their latest IDENTITY!!!!!the rest is totally old fashioned and since the CROSS past its sell by date!!!

LikeUnlike · Comment · Share · DeleteMikkel Thomsen, Evke Sambul Tampi Silalahi and Evg Salvo Colicchia II like this.
Paul Noble Interesting must get together and have a chat.
05 November at 16:53 · LikeUnlikeEvke Sambul Tampi Silalahi Thank for the sharing n prayer from you my brother with the LORD CHRIST.You is my brother is the good n the best for me n to the LORD.It's true if afriend loves at all times,and a brother is born for adversity.We will rejoice in thy salvation n in the name of our GOD we will set up (our) banners,the GOD fulfil all thy petitions.JESUS CHRIST bless U n Ur family always.
05 November at 22:11 via Facebook Mobile · LikeUnlikeChris Welch Never feel quite worthy of your comments Evke,but in Christ I can be confident.Bless all of you there!!!
05 November at 23:28 via Facebook Mobile · LikeUnlike · 1 person

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