Showing posts with label no independent self. Show all posts
Showing posts with label no independent self. Show all posts

Tuesday, 7 April 2015

Pricking the Bloated Independent Self



Before Yes I am by Norman Grubb and others of his books, prophets were kind of stuck nonplussed.

We kept getting ourselves into scrapes but didn't really understand why. Certainly to everyone else who relate in quite a detached slightly formal, or may be just pally way, prophets were a complete enigma and consequently got themselves labelled as socially unstable.  Particularly in jolly hockeysticks or should that be golfsticks ? England.

Yet some of us had already observed that not infrequently Jesus caused the same problems, but that gets brushed under the carpet....since He is after all the Son of God and presumably can be forgiven....being perfect and all!!!

I brought this kind of thing up again yesterday in a comment on John Castleman's Timeline.



John Castleman
Yesterday at 16:21 ·
The chapter in my book i'm currently working on is titled 'The Art of Overlooking' since as Proverbs 19:11 reads, ‘It’s to one’s glory to overlook an offense’.
And He mercifully gives us plenty to 'overlook' along the Way, lots of gory on the road to glory. It's a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong chapter.

Chris Welch: I would say this is a huge and current topic. Daniel Yordy won't even talk to me now.....And I don't know if you realise....spiritually we are virtually twins. So we'd better get this issue sorted. People people love talking about honouring each other. I would.guess this would be the chainmail permanently attached to Cindi Estep and Leonard Fredette. Prophets see straight through crap and see only the real person underneath and tell them so. At the moment the whole.Body of Christ right across the whole earth is ripped in two over this one. Do we do a Bill Johnson and honour each other? Or do we.obey St Paul and speak the truth in love? Which in his case involved naming names so that we are still.reading about Hymenaus 2000 years later?







Ephesians 4 twice talks about speaking the truth in love verse 15 we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head,

and verse 25 25 Therefore, laying aside falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. 26 Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and do not give the devil [s]an opportunity.

And in the middle of the two is the foundation....namely that the old self is being corrupted in accordance with lusts of deceit so put on the new self which is in the likeness of God.

What Norman Grubb has defined is that the independent self is a complete delusion. It is hooked into lusts of deceit....It REALLY EXISTS,,,but it's NOT the independent thing we thought it was. It is actually being engaged with Satan's spirit. There is no "human nature". We are either God going on in our "human clay vessels" or we are Satan going on.

"And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, [d]indulging the desires of the flesh and of the [e]mind, and were by nature children of wrath,even as the rest."


Prophets are people with a balloon pricker.
They see evry man nolonger after the flesh....they see the authentic person, created in God. Now if some kind of bloated form is blobbing around outside of their authentic person, a prophet finds it quite normal to prick the fake even if it causes ructions.

Prophets cannot live with the false. They have no time for it. It quite puts them out of joint. They relate to everyone in truth and they kind of expect everyone else to do the same....which ofcourse they don't.

Jesus addressed the rich man, after he had regaled Jesus with all his keeping of the commandments....OK then....sell all you have and give it to the poor.

Is Jesus saying to everyone, every day, to sell all they have? NOPE. But He picked up the independent self clinging on for dear life to material possessions as its own god and He was immediately offended in the Spirit by the man and his self righteousness....so He launched in.

We all have people around us who do the equivalent and if we choose to walk in the Way of God then the Holy Spirit majors on it.

The function of walking in the Light is to have any last vestiges of independent self exposed as we can see in Ephesians 4 above.

As soon as someone has "removed the log" in his own eye.....come to that crashing awareness at the end of Romans 7 that there is no independent self....that any independence was really Satan as him or her.... SURE....as a thirdleveller they are going to be used to remove iddybiddy specks from their brother's inner seeing. The BIG JOB has been done by Christ on the Cross, including us into His death. We are never called upon to remove LOGS.
We can teach the Cross....but it was Christ who did the removal.

People I am brushing up with do not believe this is anything we do at all. Well you only have to read the story of Joseph as Prime Minister of Egypt, and how the Holy Spirit had him behave with his brothers to bring about a change of "seeing" in them.

Hopefully this post will get you thinking about how Proactive the Body of Christ is in bringing each of us unto glory....not by works....but by the power of Christ's own life manifested amongst us.

Sunday, 28 July 2013

Yes I Am 17 - A Change of Husbands

Yes I Am by Norman Grubb
Chapter 17
A CHANGE OF HUSBANDS

How wonderful it is! - in our new slavery to Christ we are joyfully free to be producers of the fruit of the Spirit, and cannot come again under the control of our old sin-owner. In our new slavery we say from the heart what it says in that old Church of England prayer: "… in whose service is perfect freedom." That is the fact; but how about our realization of it?

Let us face it: Though Paul has declared to us the totality of our new freedom as slaves to our new Owner, we often don’t seem to have found this fixed level of new freedom working out in our lives, but are caught up again under that old sin-boss. Where does the answer lie? It is in our relationship to the law. We go back to this word of Paul’s: "You are not under the law." But in fact we are under it and know a lot about the heavy bondage of the law on us with its "you ought" and "you ought not"! Then what does Paul mean when he says that we have full freedom from the law? We must look thoroughly into this and find the solution. For if Paul is saying, "Sin shall not have dominion over you, because you are not under the law but under grace," that evidently means sin will have dominion over us as long as the law does continue its hold over us. But how to be not only "dead to sin" (6:2) but "dead to the law" (7:4)? And how can that give us our liberty?

Paul explains it like this in Romans 7:1-6. In a marriage, law binds you to your mate. Now we humans started life mated to Satan, expressing his sin nature and producing his children, "the motions of sin in the flesh." But as we have already said, we came into the world blinded to the reality of our marriage and to the control of our sin-husband, and to the fact that it was his children which we were producing. We were duped into regarding ourselves as free persons living our own lives. If we had a relationship to sin, it was more as it having some "influence" on us, but by no means having control over us as husband over wife. We recognized Satan neither as husband nor slave-owner over us.

Therefore in our unsaved days, when blind to our true relationship to Satan, God in mercy sent us the law through Moses with its written list of "Thou shalts" and "Thou shalt nots" to shoot holes through our false independence and self-righteousness. We admitted the authority of God’s law of right living, for we were still His offspring created in His image. But how husband sin laughed at us: "Fulfill God’s law based on being a self-giving self, when you’re mated to me, the enemy god of self-loving self? Ridiculous!" He was right. We couldn’t and didn’t want to fulfill God’s law. So God’s hidden purpose of grace in sending us the law was first fulfilled not in us humans keeping the law (which we couldn’t) but in our consistently breaking the law, and thus being exposed by the law as guilty lawbreakers, as sinners.

So by the law we were ultimately driven to take that first great outward step of "coming honest" and acknowledging our guilt, repenting, and being delivered from the curse and condemnation of the law of God’s own Son, "set forth" as the propitiation for our sins.

But then comes the further step. The total work of the law is not just to expose the fact of sins committed and the consequent judgment. It is that "by the law is the knowledge of sin" - not sins, but the sin principle which was dwelling in us when the father and originator of sin dwelt in us.

Paul, through analogy, explains how we are at first married to and totally controlled by our Satan-husband, but then by one stroke the marriage is broken up - Christ’s death as our representative cutting us off from the marriage to Satan! Having died with Christ, we are now dead to our old husband. That means that the law can no longer point its finger at us as unable to keep its commands - unable because our husband (who expressed himself by us) would never let us - for death has put an end to that marriage; so the law has no further condemning claim in that respect. "Wherefore, my brethren, you became dead to the law by the body of Christ, that you should be married to another" (7:4).

He then uses the marriage illustration, just as he had used the owner-slave illustration, to bring home the same truth to us: that we humans are always under a deity management. So there’s no such thing as we humans remaining unmarried, just the same as we couldn’t remain free from slavery. Therefore the marvel of God’s grace, says Paul, is that at the moment our old marriage was broken by the death of Christ our representative, immediately in His resurrection He became our new Husband in place of Satan. There’s no such thing as a time period in which we are a kind of widow! We have immediately changed husbands and entered into our new marriage contract, in which "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin and death" (8:2).

When I inwardly know this and have got the facts in clear focus, I find that my new Husband has me, to my delight, in His total ownership; and I have nothing to do in our family life beyond producing the fruits of our marriage, the fruit of the Spirit. Then the law has disappeared from me, because my new Husband, who is the resurrected Christ, fulfills it by our union life. I thus have become dead to the law in its outer form - the form in which God first sent it, so as to expose me to the reality of my old Satan-husband.

What perfect joy for us who have come this whole way by grace into our new union and know, in its full reality, our marriage to our new Husband! But actually, the point of what Paul is now writing about, and bringing to its climax in Romans 7, is that we’ve not yet properly understood our relationship to our two husbands. Being all tangled up, our concepts need to be untangled. The tangle is caused by the false idea of myself as an independent person, about which I’ve been deceived from the Fall. Not knowing that as a sinner I lived under the total management of my old husband and solely expressed him and reproduced his children, but wrongly thinking I then had an independent life of my own, I started out living my new life thinking that now also, as a redeemed human, I have an ability of my own and so can fulfill the law. And so my former husband catches me unaware. When I think I ought to be "doing my own thing" for God (for now, being redeemed, I delight in the law of God) Satan cunningly re-exerts his control over me and causes me to fulfill his flesh will. How can this be? Because "doing my own thing" is Satan’s principle, the very cause of his and Adam’s fall. It is the sin principle. Here then is the value of the continuing law to my life. I needed to have one final radical exposure of the "nonsense" of my supposed independence. By this, at last, I can see I have never been independent: because the self-relying self was the sin-spirit in me. Until, however, I consciously know and enter into the reality of not only my cutoff from my old husband, but also my marriage to my new Husband, I will still be in an illusory condition of independence, and so actually under the remote control of my old husband. There is no in-between status. So the law completes its work by revealing the illusion of my independence, and grace reveals the reality of my new marriage. Once I move into that, the law ceases to exist as having an outer claim on me, since it is now being inwardly fulfilled in me. This is why Paul puts such strong emphasis upon the completion of God’s purposes through the law for my freedom, exposing sin as well as sins, and the lie about a time of independence intervening between the old ownership and the new, the old husband and the new.

How wonderful to know that I am now married to Christ! To know that "I am my Beloved’s, and His desire is toward me" (S. of S. 7:10).

Yes I Am............on Kindle

Yes I Am........... as a Paperback


Yes I Am........... free but unwieldy online screen version

Wednesday, 24 July 2013

Yes I Am 10 - We Have Been Deceived About Ourselves


Yes I Am by Norman Grubb
Chapter 10
WE HAVE BEEN DECEIVED ABOUT OURSELVES

So we are seeing a tremendous revolutionary reality that humans never had a nature by themselves. They were both created and later redeemed to express in simple spontaneity and naturalness Him who is God in us and who, Scripture says, "dwells in us and walks in us" (2 Cor. 6:16). Likewise after the Fall, when we had freely joined ourselves to Satan, we had no nature of our own either. So there never has been a "human" nature. Therefore there is no point in considering whether we believers have two natures or one! No, we humans have none, but tragically or gloriously, spontaneously manifest the nature of the deity in us.

But as we investigate this actual, factual relationship between God and man in which man is nothing but the agency by whom God reveals Himself as God, and God in love-action - it becomes obvious that man is not a robot, with no free expression of himself as a person. It is precisely the opposite. We see the total freedom of the Divine Person fulfilling His love-purposes through the total freedom of the human person. And how can that be? It is no paradox when, as we have already seen, freedom must make its choices and the free will then loves to be controlled by its choice. We still do what we want to do. There is no need to force a person’s will. All the other person need do is to attract and captivate our "want," and then we will love to act in harmony with him. Give a child another toy, and his crying after the first one disappears. People often ask, How can we conceive of God changing a person’s will if he is free? The answer is that God changes our "want," and the will follows spontaneously. Once God has captured our wills by drawing us back to Himself through Christ, then it is He in us who "wills and does of His good pleasure" (and it is always good!) and it is we who naturally, gladly, freely work it out (Phil. 2:13-14).

He who is the "Freedom of the universe" can only be His free Self by His sons as they are free. Only with freedom can there be expansion and development, so God’s universe can only be entrusted as an inheritance to those free to develop it - to persons, not automata. If there are two freedoms, that of the Creator Person and that of the created persons, the one simple necessity is that the Creator and created be in such a love-union that the sons love to fulfill the will of the Father, and yet always are consciously free in working it out. It still remains an apparent contradiction to reason and logic, I realize, but there is no contradiction in daily living. We who are in this love-union know we are free, and we make our free decisions and carry them out into action, yet we equally laughingly and delightedly know we are doing what is worked in us to will and do. So here is the perfection of freedom which we who have found "the way" delight in, and in which we freely operate.

He who is the "Freedom of the universe" can only be His free Self by His sons as they are free.

This revelation from the Scriptures is so central to our very being that we will go over it again, for the repeating of something this important can only help settle the truth more firmly in us.

Our failure to recognize that we Christians are never independent selves and have no human nature of our own but are always, eternally, expressions of the Deity Person whose property we are, and that we manifest His nature, is the root of all our confusion and frustrations. All redeemed sons of God struggle with it in their newly awakened zeal to be the kind of people we know we ought to be. It is the root of our and Paul’s Romans 7 "wretchedness." It is the blank wall of obstruction we appear to be confronted with in all of life’s problems. It also appears to us as an immovable block in our bringing Christ to others, with their deafened ears or prejudiced hearts. The false concept of independent self is the all-round blockage; indeed, it is the only blockage of all life.

It is the great deception. The serpent deceived Eve; and sin, which is Satan’s garment of deception, the Bible says, deceives us. For sin’s principle is "I’ll do things my way, not God’s way" - the precise character of Satan. So what has happened is that Satan has tricked fallen humanity into thinking that we, like himself, are really independent selves, running our own lives in our own way. He has totally blinded us to the fact that we are merely expressions of him, the false deity - actually Satan in our human forms. Who among the millions of us in our lost condition ever thought that we were actually Satan manifesting himself by us? When we responded to the conviction of the Spirit - enough to know we were sinners, under the condemnation of the law, without God and without hope - we simply saw ourselves as slaves of Satan, doing his evil deeds; even children of the devil, having his character of self-loving self. But none of us recognized that actually it was he, the spirit of error, who was living his own life by us - he being the real sinner and we walking Satans (just as the redeemed become walking Christs). We were under this false conception that it was just we who were the sinners, and the sins our own evil deeds, and the self-centeredness our own distorted independent self. And it is because we did not know ourselves as "walking Satans" that we now have great difficulty in knowing ourselves as "walking Christs."

This is what ties us in knots. We have been so grossly deceived - and deceit is much more dangerous than blindness, because when blind we know we are blind, but when deceived we think we are what we are not. We shall be seeing in further detail how this illusion of our being independent selves - and so having certain responsibilities and the particular obligation to be the kind of people we know we ought to be (despite our constant failures) - is precisely what has so distorted our self-outlook. Does it not seem almost blasphemous, or certainly ridiculous and impossible, that we could actually be Christ expressing Himself in our human forms? Look at us! Yes, look at us through the illusion of being independent, responsible people who should somehow become like Him. Now contrast this with the "notion" that we are Christ in our human forms. It is blasphemy! But we will clear this hurdle, and the leap is clear, simple and sane.

So now we have had a first hard look at this revolutionary fact, plain in the Scriptures, yet hidden from (we may say) everybody who is not of the Spirit, and equally hidden from the vast majority of Bible-based believers. It is the fact of the deity-indwelt life being as much the condition of the lost as of the saved. Recognition of this is the key to living with all boldness the liberated human life.

So we will now give time to an examination of how God totally regains His stolen property, the countless millions of free sons who become the "riches of the glory" of His Son’s inheritance (Eph. 1:18). We will see again how He had this planned from eternity - the adopted family chosen before the foundation of the world. But it always has been the prime necessity that if they are to be competent, reliable sons by whom He may manage His universe in His own only-way of love-management, then that positive, perfect nature of self-giving love must first be built on the certainty of the swallowing up of their negative nature of self-getting love; for everything is established only by swallowing up or building upon its opposite. And in His eternal wisdom He has always had it planned that the swallowing up would be so complete that the misused negative could never show its head again. The predestined Seed of the woman would tread underfoot and crush the serpent’s head, fully removing his infection from His stolen precious sons and restoring them to their perfected sonship.



Yes I Am............on Kindle

Yes I Am........... as a Paperback


Yes I Am........... free but unwieldy online screen version

Tuesday, 30 October 2012

Agape is a verb

Elaine came over tonight just before she goes back to Kenya. We talked about how professionals were trying to advise her the other day. Interesting how charity has gone from being agape, to a noun meaning something similar to a corporation or board. Even my African friend who thinks in terms of people being born again then when it comes to church is all about board meetings...allbeit his board mee
tings resemble worship gatherings. i say cut out the middleman....ie the boards. We're at this thorny stage all over the world, where everything God has ever done so far has been able to be mimicked, so we have a corporation package for missionary work and founding churches. Thorny, because...up until 2012 the independent self question has never ever been faced in a corporate setting. So the independent self has been co-managing churches,co-managing charities, quietly acquiescing to Rothschild Freemasonic or Round Table input and now ofcourse comes the divide of history. Nothing is ever going to be the same again.Up until now, we didn't know what was going wrong. We knew our collander had holes, we just didn't know where and why. Now we do. So what are charities and churches going to do?
Well the jury's out. Watch closely.

Wednesday, 27 July 2011

Jewels from Nancy Fitzpatrick Gilmore


Nancy has a Facebook Group entitled Lovers of God
Her blog entitled See God Only is here

The Holy Spirit Of God: By Nancy Fitzpatrick Gilmore

The Holy Spirit is A Vital Person for us to know personally; for He is the Salvation of Christ in us, and He expresses the Godhead as He is in Christ. The Holy Spirit has done everything from making the dry land appear in the creation of the world, to setting the universe into orbit; to the Preparing of the Womb of Mary for His manifestation of the body of Jesus, who learned from the Holy Spirit that He was 'The Christ'. The Holy Spirit is the One who has the suffering work of teaching us of our union with Christ; and making Christ the Center of our lives, that we are one with Him. Nancy Fitzpatrick Gilmore

Our Body, Our Life: By Nancy Fitzpatrick Gilmore

Our physical body of flesh and blood that 'appears' to be our real body is an illusion. It's a dead body. The only reason it appears to be living is because we are located by it in this world as a means of manifesting the Living Spirit of God; that Eternal Spirit that brought again from the dead, Our Lord Jesus Christ. Our real body is the resurrected body of the Lord who shares His body life with us. We are a derivative of His Life. Nothing 'outer' is real. All life is inner, and to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. As Paul said; for me to live is Christ and to die is gain. Nancy Fitzpatrick Gilmore

A Positive Attitude? By Nancy Fitzpatrick Gilmore

I'm glad for your positive attitude! - yet, a positive attitude is not faith. Faith is the 'substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen'. I'm sure you know this without me making a deal of it, but I live around ones who have a very positive attitude, and have absolutely no faith in operation at all except in themselves. Lucifer had that kind of a positive attitude, and look what it got him. Nancy Fitzpatrick Gilmore

A TOTAL SURPRISE FOR THE DEVIL: By Nancy Fitzpatrick Gilmore

A TOTAL Surprise for the devil! The devil didn't know "the man-Christ Jesus-The Lord" was going to rise from the dead -let alone develop a new race of persons; a race of christs. That's what we are; a race of christs. The devil has been totally frustrated in all new ways since The Lord Arose, and The Holy Spirit Person came to indwell us personally, and make us just that; a race of christs. Nancy Fitzpatrick Gilmore

The Incarnation; by Nancy Fitzpatrick Gilmore


The Incarnation is, without a doubt, the greatest miracle to ever take place in flesh and blood in all of human history. It not only affected every human being God ever created, but it ultimately brought into existence a new dimension in the Throne Room of God; where we are now accepted with our Elder Brother, Jesus. I think we can in every sense of the word, accept ourselves, not because God made everything good in creation; but because Jesus made us new by being the Progenitor of a 'new race' of people through His resurrection. Christ raised us in Himself when He was raised from the dead; which takes us into a new dimension with Him; an invisible dimension where we are unencumbered by earthly things; and kept by the power of His Spirit; quickening us throughout eternity. To God Be the Glory!

How God Used Watchman Nee in my life: By Nancy Fitzpatrick

"The deadness and feebleness of the saints today is largely due to their receiving and following the truth with their minds. This is nothing but the law. In spite of the exactness of the letter, it is absolutely not of the Holy Spirit." - Watchman Nee

I'd like to share with you, how the Spirit used Watchman Nee in my life. Actually it's quite significant! Watchman Nee wrote a book called "LOVE NOT THE WORLD". . .and I was drawn to it back in the 60's, (in fact, I'm sure I could find that old book today- packed away, somewhere in my things, as a keepsake!). As I read the book and was open to the Spirit, I came to one of the chapters where Nee said "something" like this; winning souls is not all that high of a calling; anyone can do that. (I'm sure I'm not quoting that part exactly correct!). But it got my attention! So as I continued reading I found he reached his fever-pitch in saying; what is significant, DOES THE DEVIL KNOW WHO YOU ARE? And he used the scripture in Acts 19:11-16 which says: "And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them. Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches. And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified." - I literally leap out of my chair up in the air with the book in my hand waving it to the Lord and crying out to Him, saying; YES, LORD, THAT'S WHAT I WANT. . .I WANT THE DEVIL TO KNOW WHO I AM!

I can't begin to tell you the many ways over the years the Spirit has proven both to me and to the Devil that's exactly what the DEVIL KNOWS, Who I am. Christ in me, as me.

Why must we know faith - By Nancy Fitzpatrick Gilmore

Why we must know faith; by Nancy Fitzpatrick Gilmore.

Why we must know faith.

Is there anything that destroys us like “having no faith”?
I know that statement is not good English, but perhaps it makes the point best.

The absence of faith destroys us.

Faith is vital! Faith is critical to our well being!

What is faith then? I mean, “Real Faith” – God’s kind of faith?

Without faith you can do nothing!

Faith isn’t just ‘something’ to believe…- but faith is the very substance of God whose believing is in us! God not only believes in us, but God believes that we’ll believe on His believing in us.

Faith is God at work in us. Faith is God’s operation in us producing His Liberating Life. Faith not only knows what to believe, faith knows who to believe on.

Faith is the evidence; God evidence of things not seen.

Perhaps this explains the attack on faith within us. Explains why faith suffers long!

Did you ever think about the suffering that is in you is God’s faith suffering for you to believe ON HIM?

Why is it important for us to know we are not self-acting-selves: By Nancy Fitzpatrick

Why is it important for us to know we are not self actings selves? One good reason- it puts life into focus for us. I need to know what it is to be a person, and then be that person. Being is important! I need to be who I am. And I need to know who I am as well as be who I am.

Who Am I? This seems to be the age old question! We hear it first ask by Moses of God Himself. WHO ARE YOU..WHO SHOULD I SAY SENT ME? WHAT IS YOUR NAME? Those are very personal questions Moses ask of God. But that's what Moses wanted to know! That's what Moses needed to know. We need to know that too. Who is God and how am I related to Him?

My relationship with God is important. How AM I related to Him? I don't necessarily mean a genealogy; tho without the genealogy of Christ there is no relationship! So naturally we must KNOW Christ! But here I am relating to 'what's my one on one' with my business partner? Jesus said, I must be about My Father's Business. What did He mean, and how does it apply to us?

I personally think it means God has a job to do, and this time by us. And since this is "the scoop" of our fellowship (God & mine), I best be in a good relationship with my business partner.

One of the first things I need to learn is; WHO IS BOSS! And then I need to find out how He intends to put through His arrangement He's previously made by His Son. And THEN I need to find out if He's ever going to make me some kind of an partner in His business. After all there will come a time of retirement and I need to know if there are any benefits in the future.

FAITH IS THE LANGUAGE OF GOD: By Nancy Fitzpatrick Gilmore



In regard to being sensitive to how others 'take' what we say; we need to recognize...- 'since deception makes you think you are something you are not' - the Holy Spirit, who IS love, must 'definitely' be a disturbance in other peoples lives. I'm never concerned about that because in this life we say what we hear the Spirit saying, and know He is reaching His objective. SO.. when we know someone says they 'believe', but do not "speak faith" ...- we address that. And we too will be a disturbance in others lives as the Lord uses us.

Faith is a language of the Spirit we learn. It's the language of God. It is from another dimension; the invisible. The faith that speaks is generated in us by Christ; The Invisible One.

Abraham believed and it was counted as righteous unto him. So Abraham's believing was real faith. It was the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not see. We can learn this language of faith directly by Gods' revelation to Abraham. It's recorded in Romans 4:13-25. It's telling us that Abraham 'caught' on to how God operates. It says Abraham saw in Gods' promise that God called those things that be not as though the were!

Abraham copied Gods' method, and with everything out of Abraham's reach physically, against hope, believed! And Abraham was credited by God, Gods-substance! It's evidence that is in the promise. Abraham had his son! The promise was as good as the boy! And being not weak in faith, Abraham considered NOT his own body dead when it was about 100 years old, neither the deadness of Sarah's womb. He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strong in faith, giving glory to God.

Now we do the same thing! Abraham is the 'father of our faith'. Abraham gave us this pattern. Abraham teaches us the 'know-how' of faith. He learned how to operate in faith. SO it says, Abraham being fully persuaded that what God promised, He was able also to perform. In other words this is a sure thing! And he said so! For 25 years he said so. Do you suppose he got some persecution? Or do you suppose they made fun of him? You see his name got change when he got faith. Names back them truly meant certain things to other, and Abraham means "I'm a daddy!"

Now this is the language of the Spirit of God. It operates on a higher level than ration or reason, and it has nothing to do with 'sense-knowledge'! It requires a leap into a different form of operation than we are accustom to at first. But we soon learn we are in union with a God who CANNOT LIE! Union means we co-operate with God in the way He does things.

Union puts life in gear for us. Union is the required positive- negative connection for operation with God. The 'whole' of life is union with God as us. We operate in this life by the faith of God. It's HIS FAITH! Make sure you're connected IS in union with Christ. This negative-positive connection is how things happen AS we speak the language of faith.

Thursday, 23 June 2011

No Independent Self by Norman Grubb

All of us are grateful to Nancy Gilmore for making this original copy available



No Independent Self


by Norman Grubb



The basis of our total truth, which we are taking to the whole church in the whole world, is that the human self has no nature of its own. It is the expressor of a deity nature, whether the nature of the false deity, the spirit of error, or the true Deity, the Spirit of Truth (1 John 4:6). Because we have all become accustomed to speaking of ourselves as having a human nature, it may make it clearer if we speak of the self never being an independent self. It has never been a self-operating self, and thus never operating by expressing a nature of its own.



There is no independent, self-operating self in the universe, except the One who calls Himself the I AM (Exodus 3:14), and says, "I am God and there is none else . . . There is no God else beside Me" (Isaiah 45:21,22).



But the Independent One has a limitation to His independence, for it is said of Him that He cannot lie (Titus 1:2). In other words His eternal self-independence is a fixed choice between two alternatives (these alternatives are explained in the following paragraphs on the law of opposites). Therefore, when we say that we created selves have no independent self, but express His eternal Deity Self, we are also saying that we express God's fixed nature, which has eternally discarded the possibility of expressing the liar, self for self nature. We are fixed as He ( 1 John 3:9).





THE LAW OF OPPOSITES



The fundamental law of the universe is that there are pairs of opposites, and that nothing operates except by the one swallowing up the other (2 Cor.5:4), the one using the other as its means of manifestation -- thus light-dark, heat-cold, sweet-bitter, hard-soft, yes-no, the positive-negative of electricity, and the proton-electron of the atom: or taken into our own reality as selves, self-loving or self-giving self: self for self or self for others.



This is why it says of God Himself that He cannot lie. In other words, He is dead to being a self for self (a liar) and is unalterably fixed as being the Self for others. The eternal fact is that He has never been a loner, but brought His own Son into Being. Thus He is the eternal other lover (John 5:20; 3:35). (See Alan Parker pamphlet on "The Cross in the Heart of God").



Thus created selves can only know themselves and function by being confronted by the choice of opposites. This was true also among those whom we speak of as heavenly beings. Lucifer was the chief one close to the throne of God (IS. 14:12-14; Ezekiel 28:12-15). He was created to be the manifestor of the Creator's fixed nature of other-love, (Lucifer means Light-bearer). But he chose in his freedom to be the expressor of the opposite, alternative nature of self-for self to which God had died. He brought into manifestation the hidden fire-nature rather than the light-nature of God (Hebrews 12:29: 1 John 1:5). He imagines himself to be in independent self (Is. 14:13, 14), but is deceived as to who he really is. Jesus called him the expression of negative light (Matt. 5:23). There was war in heaven and Lucifer was cast out (Rev. 12:7-9).





GOD'S PURPOSES TO BE FULFILLED BY HIS FAMILY OF SONS



God utilizes the choice between alternatives in us to fulfill His eternal plan "to the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:3-14). He is bringing into being a vast family of sons in His image, whose created selves (with no independence of their own) express His fixed other-love nature. They will manage the universe with His Son (Heb. 1:2; Rom. 8:17) by ministering to it in His eternal other-love, and thus serving and liberating it to fulfill itself in the love of one to the other (Is. 11:1-9; Rom. 8:19-21), so that the whole universe will be one eternal song of praise, worship, harmony, mutual love and delight (1 Cor. 15:24-28).



This then necessitated that we who are created in His image be confronted by the reality of the opposites in ourselves and choose to express the deity nature of self-for-others or self-for-self. Therefore, the firs created couple had to be confronted with the symbol of the two trees in the Garden. They were at first unconscious expressors of God's other-love nature. Adam was in harmony with all creatures and could give each its proper name (Gen. 2:20): they knew no opposite to other-love in union with the Father.



In order to become conscious operating selves, and not merely continue like spontaneous infants, God used Lucifer, the wrathful expressor (Rev. 12:12) of that opposite fire-nature, to entice and deceive Eve. She responded to Satan's (the serpent) lies about God and began to express his self-for-self nature in herself by taking the fruit which God had forbidden. Adam consciously chose to identify with Eve's self-for-self nature disobedience (1 Tim. 2:14).



Thus they became conscious of the opposites through the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The good is self which expresses God and other-love; the evil is a self which expresses Satan and self-loving love. They became expressors of their Satan-father's self-for-self nature, Satan's "seed" (Gen. 3:14; 1 Jn. 3:8-10: Jn. 8:44). In their expression of him (Eph. 2:1-3, they became tricked into the false concept of seeing themselves as independent selves, even as their false father Satan was deceived into thinking he is an independent self. (In reality he expresses that negative fire-nature in God which, rightly used in God became the source of the light-nature of other-love).



So we transmit what we are or think we are. Therefore, it was God's purpose that Satan, the serpent, should transmit his deceived concept of his independence into us his seed. As a result we fallen humans think we are independent selves. But in reality we are merely expressors of Satan's self-for-self nature. Note the word "deceiveth" in that plainest word in Scripture concerning his lying effects on us (Rev. 12:9). And thus by this deceitful means we destined sons of the Father could once for all experience the bitterness of this lie and discard it through the Last Adam, Jesus Christ.



THE SECRET AND ESSENTIAL VALUE OF THE LAW OF GOD THROUGH MOSES



From this follows God's gracious dealings with fallen humanity through the law given by Moses (Jn.1:17). Paul has been the great expositor of its necessary purpose. Actually the law, as outer manifestor of God's true nature, is inherent in every person. The law exposes eternal truth as well as our inability to perform it in our false union with Satan. Romans 1:8-21 makes that plain and traces our total declension from it in the rest of the chapter. But here and there is a response in an honest heart, as in Romans 2:18-21, and the instance of Joseph in Genesis 39:9. And all nations have had their laws of right and wrong. But in the blindness of our deceived selves, we have not recognized our self-for-self nature as sin against God and its eternal consequences. This is the "ignorance" of Acts 17:23, Ephesians 4:18, and even of Paul in 1 Timothy 1:13. Thus only the outer pronouncement of God's law is known to be sin (Rom. 5:13).



So when God began His eternal purpose of restoring the human family to its true being, He first give His great call to Abraham to be the human father of the family of faith who would believe in the Living God, the "Possessor of heaven on earth." There had always been the thin line, like a nylon thread of believers and knowers, in this Satan-captured world, from Abel, Seth, Enoch, Noah, and Shem, to Abraham. But it was just a thread. Now it was to become a great nation of believers in the true God in that idol-infested world. In the "fullness of time" He would Himself come in the flesh to be our marvelous Saviour.



In due course the first little family became a great population in Egypt and then became a nation through Moses in its own promised land . It was Moses who gave them and us, in plain words inscribed in stone, the true characteristics of God's holy nature (which in our later days we are to know as law all fulfilled in love). Yet in His fullness of mercy, He combined the law and its judgments (which we would inevitably break because it was given to us to expose the inevitability of our breaking it as slaves to the sin deity) with constant means of restoration and access to Him by blood sacrifices and various fellowship offerings of the Tabernacle and Temple. By these means, indeed, there were always those (many more than we might think -- 2 Kings 19:18) who had a living relationship with God For the Lamb had been slain from the foundation of the world, and there was a spiritual Christ before the historic Christ (Heb. 11:26; 1 Cor. 9:3,4: Jn. 8:56, 58).



So in the blindness of our fallen hearts, the law was God's merciful means of revealing sin as sin. Then, in that fullness of time, the True Lamb of God came to make the one complete and sufficient sacrifice for the sins of the world. By His death and resurrection there is justification from the condemnation and eternal consequence of our sins condition. This is for all who move in by inner faith reception and outer word confession of Him in His finished work of atonement. Beyond that the Spirit gives inner witness of the replacement of the Spirit of Truth for that false spirit of error. This is the radical revelation to those who cannot stop short of our total inheritance.





We have come now to the law's final revelation, which the vast majority of the redeemed remain ignorant of. It is for those who hunger and thirst after righteousness until they are filled (Matt 5:6). What is revealed is the root of sin: the Satanic deceit of thinking we are independent selves, who by ourselves can resist all Satan's assaults of self for self. This is especially under line for us by Paul in Romans 7. We know we have now become new creations in Christ and experience in our redeemed selves the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22, 23). But at the same time, we are being constantly knocked off our steady walk in the Spirit by the assaults of all kinds of temptations. They drag us back toward sin-responses such as fear, hate, lust, pride, etc.



Because we are still under the delusion of being independent selves, we respond to those temptations which the law says we should not respond to. We therefore say we don't want to respond, and we make resolutions that we won't (Paul's Romans 7 statement "when I would do good"). But then we are hopelessly caught. We struggle and seek to resist the pulls, but there they are. We feel guilty for having such pulls -- which we call flesh -- and experience inward guilt and often outward response. We blame those responses on a supposed flesh-nature which binds and drives us, so that we see ourselves as what Paul said in Romans 7:14: "carnal, sold under sin." So we remain with our struggles and inner condemnations as being such flesh people. When we have actually sinned, we repeatedly return to 1 John 9 and thankfully accept the forgiveness and cleansing, though with the hopeless recognition that we shall very soon go through the same repeated syndrome of struggle, condemnation by the law, and renewed cleansing.



But at last some of us come to a place of desperation. Only those who become desperate can find the releasing secret. Paul himself went this way. In Romans 6 he leads us through the deeper meaning of identification with Christ, by which we reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God. But while we reckon that in Romans 6, it just doesn't work out in the life of Romans 7! Yet Paul then goes on to leave Romans 7 forever behind (except for occasional foolish visits) and live in the reality of Romans 8, where there is no further condemnation, there is freedom. The fixed law of the Spirit of life forever replaces the former fixed law of sin and Satan control.



Paul's great discovery was that the human self is basically neutral as for as the kind of nature it expresses. He says in Romans 7:18 that no good thing resides in our humanity (flesh). But then he says that neither does any bad thing, though he had mistakenly and so deceivingly thought it did. No!

- - if any good in him is expressed by the Spirit bearing His fruit through him, merely as a branch; so also, any bad is not in humanity, our flesh, but is equally the fruit of the bad spirit through us as a branch. He actually said that in Romans 6:20-22. Which fruit were we formerly producing? Fruit is not a branch product, but a vine product. It depends on which vine our human selves are the branches of! So if the good is the Spirit of good expressed by me, the bad is the spirit of bad - - what Paul called "sin that dwelleth in me" in Romans 7:17. This is now replaced by Christ dwelling in us (Romans 8:10).



So, at the point of desperation, Paul found a solution to his misery. He was not able to combat temptations under the pointing finger of the law's "you ought to." The solution was the radical revelation that he never was an independent self combating temptation and challenged by the law. He came to see his created self (as are all selves) as the mere container and then expresser of the Eternal Self. We are all created to contain and express the eternal self. But we have to learn that nothing functions except by swallowing up its opposite. We learn the operation of God's opposite by yielding our human selves to the Satan occupant, resulting in "sin that dwelleth in me." We are tricked into believing that we run ourselves (as he thinks he runs himself) and that we ourselves are the sin person doing the sins. But we are branches, not vines.



God sent the law through Moses to challenge us to be doers if we think we can! Down at last we fall. We are of course unable to be self-operating selves; because there is no such things. Initially we saw our sins removed by grace. We did not yet see that they were Satan's sins by us and not ours (Jn 8:44). But then comes the final discovery that the sin-doer was never we, but he in us as us. The law caught us out as if we were independent selves. Then came the condemnation fro the law and the struggling to rid ourselves of the sin-power holding us. But at last we see! There never was anything wrong with our branch humanity made in His image. So therefore, we take no condemnation as if we were the culprit. It was he, "Mr. Sin", pulling at us and often knocking us over.



This brings us to Paul's Calvary revelation that Jesus on the cross was we on that cross, for He came to be our representative. Because sin was indwelling and expressing itself by us, He died on Calvary as us, His holy body as ours. He was thus "made sin" (2 Cor 5:21), made the sin expresser we were. In his death, the Spirit of error left that body. Sin as us left. In the tomb His own resurrecting Spirit came into His body and raised it. He comes into our bodies also as we receive Him by faith. So Paul saw the truth about our human selves. The created human self, created "very good" in God's image, had never had anything wrong with, except that it participated in physical mortality. Now it manifests the nature of the Spirit of truth and responds to His drives. It is dead in Christ to manifesting the nature of the spirit of error and responding to his drives. Therefore, we have also become "dead to the law," because the law only had an apparent claim on us while we were living in the deceit of thinking we were independent selves running our own lives. So now there remains nothing for this outer law of God to point demanding or accusing fingers at. We are "dead to the law", because there is no longer such a thing as an independent self to which the law can address itself.



Free At Last



So now at last are clear. We are free because we know ourselves as nothing but the expresser, vessel, branch, temple, body member, and slave of the Deity self, his Spirit joined to our spirits. And we have moved in by the recognition of faith, as in Romans 8:2 and Gal 2:20, to being right self-conscious selves, conscious of ourselves being Himself in expression. We act freely as ourselves because He has of His own choice by grace joined, fused, and identified Himself with us as ourselves. We are "driven" people, driven by His self-for-others deity nature. And we live freely in His keeping in our soul-body reactions as much as in our spirit (1 Thess 5:23).





So then, what about those continual pulls that we still have to that old opposite -- those invasions of fear, hate, worry, lust, self-seeking and weakness? Now we are alive to Satan's subtlest assaults on us. The subtle trick occurs when we feel those constant pulls on us and we go back to the old habits of thinking we ought not to respond to them. Bang! We have been caught out in the old habit of thinking we are independent, and thus need to respond to an "ought to" or an "ought not". This is the subtle trick. Those pulls make us think we are independent human selves again, and the moment we think that, back comes the law saying, "No, you ought not to." And we are caught right up into false condemnation. That "ought not" only reaches us because we have slipped back into thinking we should be watching ourselves, running our own lives, and combating the wrong pulls. This is where Satan has his laugh on us. There we are, inwardly condemned as if we ought not to fear, hate, anger, lust, or to want or react to these negative desires. And there we are struggling and condemned, or maybe following through to some actual sin.



Why? Here comes Satan's final subtle trick. We are tricked in to thinking that having those pulls is sin: whereas, the real sin is the unbelief of thinking we are again independent selves who should not have these pulls. But the independent self is really Satan-self again having his hold on us, and we then again "carnal sold under sin". That means we are back again under the law with its "thou shalt not". But we are bound and unable to keep that law because our false sense of independent self, to which the law addresses itself, is really Satan as us with his temporary control of us.



Paul puts the essence of Romans 6,7 and 8 into three verses to the Galatians -- Galatians 5:16-18. "Walk in the Spirit," he writes, "and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh." We are Spirit people, but still in our flesh-humanity, and thus open to all Satan's pull on us in our soul-body emotions and appetites. So now what happens? We become conscious of flesh pulls, for, says Paul, "the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary the one to the other." These contrary pulls make us conscious of the antagonistic opposites, "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We are Spirit people bearing Spirit fruit and loving to be so, but we now also feel the pulls and desires of the flesh -- Satan's agency in this Satan-filled world for attracting us back to his self-for-self ways.



This consciousness of the flesh-Spirit antagonisms is the danger spot. Satan thereby seeks to drag us back to that separation through the fall, in which we again think we are independent selves instead of Spirit-united selves. This independent self outlook is really the touch of the old Satan-union on us. It also means that we immediately put ourselves back under the law again. And with what consequence? We are bound by that Satan-self in our separation and cannot respond to the law or Spirit, and so Paul says, "Ye cannot do the things that ye would." Thus we are under the condemnation of the law and experience guilt that we cannot fulfill it. Being in the lie of independent self temporarily puts us back under Satan's control. Therefore, we cannot do the things that we would. Properly caught, properly bound and condemned!



But now Paul says, "If ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law." In other words, if we are temporarily in unbelief, which has resurrected the lies of the independent self, we then suddenly remind ourselves of who we really are -- Spirit bound and Spirit led, our self expressing Himself. We then say, "Wait a minute. Of course I am not an independent self feeling these pulls of Satan. That is his lie. No, I am a Christ-self." I do not deny or fight the reality of my flesh pulls (and those are precisely what my Elder Brother equally, continually had according to Heb. 4:15).



I accept and recognize the reality of these flesh pulls, but I am dead to them in Christ ("always, bearing about in my body the dying of the Lord Jesus" as in 2 Cor. 4:10). They can shout at me by temptation, but have no hold or right to me (Roman. 8:12). I am alive unto God, a Spirit person, and led by the Spirit. The only law on me is what I now instinctively fulfill, the "law of the Spirit" by which I spontaneously do the things of the Spirit. Through Christ the Spirit has replaced that old "law of sin and death" by which I spontaneously did the things of the flesh. So I go free -- back to who I really always was.



This is Paul's definition of daily freedom under daily flesh-assaults or pressures. It is what James tol d us to be very thankful for -- good constant practice in the application of our faith walk. We admit those lying pulls back to unbelief, but now we are spontaneously faith-conscious of walking as Christ as us. Therefore, we "stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free" (Gal. 5:1). By admitting Satan's right to pull at us through the flesh, we are also free to affirm our right to our faith-consciousness of being Christ as us. Thus we express Christ's nature of love, joy, and praising. We swallow up the negative pulls, or rather use those very pulls to express His pulls: love replacing hate, faith fear, rest strain, strength weakness, self-giving for self-gratifying, and so on.



We Will Repeat About This Independent Self


Because of its importance, and because it is the main reason for this whole "walking in the Spirit" sharing, I will address again what we do in meeting the assaults of the flesh. The answer is that we do not fight temptation, nor take condemnation for it. The very opposite. We recognize that the real temptation is to make me think I am the independent self that I am not. Then I am again "under the law", yet cannot fulfill it, because independent self is really Satan as me (Matt 16:23). It is the sin of unbelief. What then do I do? I quickly recognize that the problem is not my having flesh-temptation, but rather my temporarily forgetting (2Pet 1:9) that I am n longer and independent self. Who I am is simply and sole an express of Christ in His nature..



Therefore, as quickly as I can, I accept the fact of being tempted, for we live in a totally tempting world. Accepting that, I don't deny or resist the temptation. No, I resist the tempter (James 4:7) by saying, "That's not I you are pulling: That's only my outer soul emotions and body appetites, which of course are open to all that can reach me from your outer world" -- 1 Cor 2:12). But I am not a bunch of outer responses, I am Christ as me. He is the real Self expressed by my human container self." As I do that, I am in fact doing what Paul said in 2 Cor 4:10: inwardly recognizing my place of death in his death to those old pulls of Satan on my human self. In place of these temptations, I am seeing myself in my true self-relationship of Christ in me as me. As I do that, the consciousness of myself as a Christ-expresser swallows up the negative consciousness of Satan and his pulls on me. Satan flees (Ja 4:7). I resist him by replacing false belief in him by true belief in who I really am -- Christ as me. Light swallows up dark. We don't fight the dark; we replace it by turning on the light.



Our danger, then, is not the fact that temptation pulls us. We shall always have plenty of that on all levels. The danger is that it tricks us back into thinking we are the selves who must respond to these pulls. But now we know that trick of Satan. We accept the pulls as normal and right on our humanity. But then we say, "That's not my real me. Those are only pulls on my outer clothing of soul-body. My 'me' is Christ as me, and the light is on and the darkness swallowed up." And if we are tempted to think, "But yes, we are constantly assaulted by the same things," then we then equally say, " And yes, that gives me continual practice in recognizing again and again who I am -- Christ as me!"



And Now That More Than Conqueror Reality



Now we are "more than conquerors" (Rom 8:37), because we are freed from having to fight our own battles and watch out for our human responses. We are "fathers," not just "young men" (1Jn 2:12-14). We are co-laborers, co-saviors (1 Cor 9:22), and intercessors. We now move out to meet the needs of others. We are more than just personal conquerors; we can lead others into conquest. We are the privileged ones to be "Knowers" by the Spirit of what is to us the total truth; That formerly we were Satan-I, but now through Calvary Christ-I, with no illusory independent self in between. This is such liberating light and the meaning of life in fullness that we have an unending drive of the Spirit to bring this "mystery hidden from ages and generations and now made manifest: (Col 1:26) to all God's people. We are taking our share in this worldwide, church-wide commission. We know it includes also our share in the offense of the cross where the sword of the Spirit pierces too deep and disrupts established convictions. But we also have the glory of seeing an increasing number in whom the light is lit in clarity. And we know our calling, as with Paul, is "to open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel," and to "speak boldly as I ought to speak" (Eph 6:19, 20). And by God's enabling, this we will do.

Sunday, 15 August 2010

The Purpose of Prophecy - Almost a Non-answer

Purpose of Prophecy - Almost a non-answer - Chris Welch on Friday, 06 August 2010 at 15:32 Facebook
Paul Noble posed the question in Prophetic Voice: What is the Purpose of Prophecy?
To me, while the whole church is still waking up to realising there is a whole new stage emerging,it is almost the wrong question. Almost like asking a parent whether we can see a film today, when what we are actually doing is moving house.

http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2010/07/bbc-series-victorian-pharmacy-managing.html is a good starting place for beginning to reply on the purpose of prophecy.
The Victorian Pharmacy is an analogy for church that still believes in the "independent self". That there's us as a self, empowered by goodness knows what...self energy or something, then on either side of us there is doing the right thing with the Holy Spirit's help, or doing the wrong thing and falling into sin. This, like the said pharmacy is how we run our whole operation until better science arrives. In the case of the Pharmacy it is discoveries in bacteria and how disease works scientifically. In the church's case it is the rediscovery of Genesis 3 and what originally went wrong, and exactly how it went wrong.
Nearly all charismatic church operations work on the old system : the independent self.
Which incidentally is why prophets have such a hard time. They tend to move on instinct a lot, and almost right from the word go, as soon as they are baptised in the Spirit, they get gut feedback that something isn't right...but in a charismatic framework, never get to find out quite why.
Romans was the last of Paul's teaching letters so he'd had a lot of practice releasing the Word by then. It is incredibly precise. It is much more precise than charismatics realise. Charismatics use Romans Chapters 3,4,and 5 rightly on the subject of grace, then as if Paul is repeating himself, begin again at 6, and rehash the same teaching as before.
It IS NOT the same teaching. 3,4 and 5 is about THE BLOOD completely justifying us. 6 and 7 is about how we operate ...or rather don't operate in daily life ONCE WE have gone through 3,4 and 5. It concerns Jesus' BODY death. The blood is not mentioned. A full understanding of this can be read in "Yes I am" by Norman Grubb.
Until churches "get " Romans 6-8 the only tools they have available are the charismatic tools of "The Promises of Deuteronomy 28" together with all sorts of other promises scattered throughout the Word. Because these verses , belief and confession all have power, all of us can testify to amazing things that have happened to us in the charismatic church. The whole of the 80s and 90s American sattellite TV was based on this.
But according to the Bible and specifically St John this is "young men stage church".
(men and women included ofcourse).
Father stage church we are told is for those who "KNOW (union word) Him who is from the beginning."
They have passed through the reckoning stages of Romans 6 and 7 and have discovered the total balderdash lie of Satan's hoax "the independent self". They now know they are Christ as them, in their form, in their personalities and bodies. As Jesus promised in the Upper room in John 17.
----------------------
The ramifications for prophecy are huge.
Charismatic churches only believe we can get so far on this earth. In the Spirit, if not verbally, they declare Jesus words in John 17 to be a lie. I must stress this is a hidden thing, everyone would be appalled if they knew it true...but in the Spirit they are calling Jesus a liar.And most of this is coming from holding on so erroneously but firmly to the desperate delusion of "independant self". There is no either/ or in this. If any part of you still believes in the independent self, in just that area, Satan is able to paralyse the life of Christ in you, and prevent it from fully forming.
This then affects church prophecy. Most common prophecy is about Jesus hooking us out of this mess because we cannot cope.
Biblical prophecy is about us being Overcomers. There is a big difference. Romans 8 is about us proving the love of God right here right now in the midst of prison, persecution, hatred, lies. We actually get to experience the wonder of God coming through for us in the worst of situations, such that everyone wonders at the Presence of God in our lives. But we laugh...because it is Him. Death has worked in us so that His Life can come forth.

No prophet if genuine, is entirely in charge of the content of his message. He/she will prophecy with amazing accuracy things that are way beyond their present understanding. Peter, on the day of Pentecost, preached very clearly about Gentiles coming in....but had to be re-convinced later through a trance. So, actually, much of the charismatic prophecies given where people really hunger after God's Presence are in fact incredibly accurate. The problem with charismatics are when they are not prophesying. Not worshipping. Just rabbiting on under their own steam, with their own understanding.

So to sum up. Prophecy in the Old Testament, in charismatic churches, and in the Emerging Church may not change too much, since it is dependant on the wonderful Holy Spirit giving the burden,and the message.Certain aspects of Pharmacy life were left unchanged by science, and some of the same remedies are still used today. But if anyone tried to tell you that this proves everything is as it always was...well no historian would refrain from bursting out laughing.
If you as prophets think all the charismatic church needs is a few tweaks here and there, well you just haven't seen Romans 6-8 properly yet.

Our world needs places that manifest God's Kingdom of Love....and this is what Kanaan (Darmstadt Community) is all about

When Romans 8 says the whole of creation is groaning/in labour/waiting expectantly for the sons of God to come into their inheritance....you can see there's some amazing things up ahead!!!
When I first started learning this stuff at age 16 in Darmstadt Frankfurt with Mother Basilea Schlink , I was looking at their trees, their fish,their fruit,their buildings, their quality of life. Already a bit of creation was getting released. Huge ripe fruit. Big big fish. Imagine what happens when the church at large "get" this stuff big time??

One spinoff in Romans is that the Jews will get jealous, and be provoked into recognising the Messiah. So, history is locked into the fulfilment of these understandings.

Monday, 5 October 2009

The world Famous Evangelist !!!?! Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits sings a prophetic song to the Church

Tuning To God : Part Two - Concert Pitch/Normal Pitch








Saying this is where it's at you know
Couldn't understand now
If I realised that the chances were slim
How come I'm so surprised when the tide rolled in

I wanna live on solid rock
I'm gonna live on solid rock
I wanna give I don't wanna be blocked
I'm gonna live on solid rock

Well I'm sick of potential
I'm sick of vanity now
I'm sticking to essential reality now
I don't know what's worse
Try to make a silk purse
Living an illusion living in confusion
I'm gonna live on solid rock....

Well a house of cards
Was never built for shock
You could blow it down in any kind of weather
Now two solid rocks two solid blocks
You know they're gonna stick
Yeah they're gonna stick together

Because the heart you break
That's the one that you rely on
The bed that you make
That's the one you gotta lie on
When you point, your finger cos your plan fell through
You got three more fingers pointing back at you

I wanna live on solid rock
I'm gonna live on solid rock
I wanna give I don't wanna be blocked
I'm gonna live on solid rock
I'm solid rock now Greenwich Meantime sounds posh, but for those in Britain it denotes normal time. English people have a problem with the phrase "concert pitch". It sounds too posh. So now I ask them if they would like me to tune their piano to normal pitch.
Which is exactly the same.

What is tuning to normal pitch viewed spiritually? Christ was the most normal guy that ever lived. There was nothing a bit off about Him that Moliere, or Brecht, or any other playwrite such as Shakespeare could caricature. Once into His Ministry after His baptism into water and the Holy Spirit, yes, He did extraordinary things....but , if you could stand His penetrating insight into the depths of your soul, He was the most joyful of guys to be around. He was....er....normal.

If a person has asked Jesus into his or her life, once you strip everything away. Once you touch rock bottom in your life, like Mary Magdelan (some question whether the commonly held view that she was a prostitute is in fact so...perhaps that was another Mary, or not a Mary at all) or the apostle Peter after his denials of Christ.....once you reach this place, however it happens for you....

All you are ever going to discover is this:
The reason you fail so is that you believe you have a separate life in your own right. This is the hubris we gained at the Fall. It's the healthy taste of hell, whereby in our failure we learn we cannot manage our own life. We were never made to. We were always only ever containers. Spirit containers of either a false spirit deity - the devil, or now a container of Christ.

We don't all have to experience what Job did. What David in the Old testament did.What Abraham did. What Jacob did. But however it works out in your life, none of us it seems gives up believing this "independent self" lie without one heck of a fight. Like the Book of Proverbs says, we prefer to sit in the seat of scoffers for a very long time. And this is after we become Christians.
Singing all the songs.
Doing all the meetings.
Maybe as in my case living in community for years.
Perhaps in ministry for years and years, preaching our sermons, always wondering why there is an almost complete lack of fruit.

What is it as a Body of Christ in the Earth that we are tuning to? Why is it all taking so darned long?
It's obviously not just tuning to "asking Jesus into your heart and believing on the blood of Jesus to forgive sins" That is believing upon God for righteousness apart from anything we do, and entering into this new life where things work by faith! This is correct but look around you...it obviously isn't enough! This is to worship the God of Abraham only.

It's obviously not to tune only to the "Baptism in the Holy Spirit message". A message of supernatural enablement. A Holy Spirit who is still apart from us. Or maybe in us, to help our poor "independent life status". (see that lie again?) This is to worship the God of Abraham and Isaac. Isaac was the one who spent his life uncovering water wells. But look at the charismatic movement! Have you noticed the deluge of people all rushing into the Kingdom impressed by charismatic churches? No. There's still something else to tune to.

It's obviously not tuning to the first bits of Jacob's life. Manipulating everything for his own self-preservation. But there is something different later on. Jacob had a name change. Something at the very core of how he lived his life from thereafter changed. And taken as a whole package this is what we are tuning to : The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob! THE WHOLE PACKAGE.

So this is what Jesus meant when He talked about building a solid and normal life! We build upon a rock. Not the Sunday school tale of building upon some laws, ideas or precepts of Jesus. We build upon Jesus Himself.

Let me break that down, before your Sunday school brain rises up again.
Building upon the rock as opposed to upon sand is:

You,leaving behind this dreadful and damaging lie that you are an independent being, strutting around making your choices, living your life...

instead catching yourself in the act....squaring up to yourself and saying
YOU DON'T HAVE A SEPARATE LIFE....right now you are either falling back into independence which is a whole Satan lie

Or you are Christ going on as you, through your soul, through your body. And in this way you start consciously only doing what Christ is actually doing through you. It's a learned thing. It's a faith thing. But pretty soon you become aware when He hasn't budged an inch...but you have.

This is how Christ lived His whole life and is what he meant when He said I can only do what I see the Father doing.

This is building your life upon a rock! As the world famous evangelist!!!! Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits sings in Solid Rock:



Chris Welch has tuned for LSO, LPO, NIGEL KENNEDY. ANDRE PREVIN. DEMIDENKO, MARC-ANDRE HAMELIN, ST GEORGE'S CHAPEL WINDSOR, THE BARBICAN, FAIRFIELD HALL. CROYDON, LONDON COLISEUM, ROYAL BALLET SCHOOL. CARL DAVIS, PAUL WELLER, JOOLS HOLLAND, TOBY SMITH EX JAMIROQUAI and many others


Sunday, 4 October 2009

Tuning - Part Two - Normal Pitch/Concert pitch

Greenwich Meantime sounds posh, but for those in Britain it denotes normal time. English people have a problem with the phrase "concert pitch". It sounds too posh. So now I ask them if they would like me to tune their piano to normal pitch.
Which is exactly the same.

What is tuning to normal pitch viewed spiritually? Christ was the most normal guy that ever lived. There was nothing a bit off about Him that Moliere, or Brecht, or any other playwrite such as Shakespeare could caricature. Once into His Ministry after His baptism into water and the Holy Spirit, yes, He did extraordinary things....but , if you could stand His penetrating insight into the depths of your soul, He was the most joyful of guys to be around. He was....er....normal.

If a person has asked Jesus into his or her life, once you strip everything away. Once you touch rock bottom in your life, like Mary Magdelan (some question whether the commonly held view that she was a prostitute is in fact so...perhaps that was another Mary, or not a Mary at all) or the apostle Peter after his denials of Christ.....once you reach this place, however it happens for you....

All you are ever going to discover is this:
The reason you fail so is that you believe you have a separate life in your own right. This is the hubris we gained at the Fall. It's the healthy taste of hell, whereby in our failure we learn we cannot manage our own life. We were never made to. We were always only ever containers. Spirit containers of either a false spirit deity - the devil, or now a container of Christ.

We don't all have to experience what Job did. What David in the Old testament did.What Abraham did. What Jacob did. But however it works out in your life, none of us it seems gives up believing this "independent self" lie without one heck of a fight. Like the Book of Proverbs says, we prefer to sit in the seat of scoffers for a very long time. And this is after we become Christians.
Singing all the songs.
Doing all the meetings.
Maybe as in my case living in community for years.
Perhaps in ministry for years and years, preaching our sermons, always wondering why there is an almost complete lack of fruit.

What is it as a Body of Christ in the Earth that we are tuning to? Why is it all taking so darned long?
It's obviously not just tuning to "asking Jesus into your heart and believing on the blood of Jesus to forgive sins" That is believing upon God for righteousness apart from anything we do, and entering into this new life where things work by faith! This is correct but look around you...it obviously isn't enough! This is to worship the God of Abraham only.

It's obviously not to tune only to the "Baptism in the Holy Spirit message". A message of supernatural enablement. A Holy Spirit who is still apart from us. Or maybe in us, to help our poor "independent life status". (see that lie again?) This is to worship the God of Abraham and Isaac. Isaac was the one who spent his life uncovering water wells. But look at the charismatic movement! Have you noticed the deluge of people all rushing into the Kingdom impressed by charismatic churches? No. There's still something else to tune to.

It's obviously not tuning to the first bits of Jacob's life. Manipulating everything for his own self-preservation. But there is something different later on. Jacob had a name change. Something at the very core of how he lived his life from thereafter changed. And taken as a whole package this is what we are tuning to : The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob! THE WHOLE PACKAGE.

So this is what Jesus meant when He talked about building a solid and normal life! We build upon a rock. Not the Sunday school tale of building upon some laws, ideas or precepts of Jesus. We build upon Jesus Himself.

Let me break that down, before your Sunday school brain rises up again.
Building upon the rock as opposed to upon sand is:

You,leaving behind this dreadful and damaging lie that you are an independent being, strutting around making your choices, living your life...

instead catching yourself in the act....squaring up to yourself and saying
YOU DON'T HAVE A SEPARATE LIFE....right now you are either falling back into independence which is a whole Satan lie

Or you are Christ going on as you, through your soul, through your body. And in this way you start consciously only doing what Christ is actually doing through you. It's a learned thing. It's a faith thing. But pretty soon you become aware when He hasn't budged an inch...but you have.

This is how Christ lived His whole life and is what he meant when He said I can only do what I see the Father doing.

This is building your life upon a rock! As the world famous evangelist!!!! Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits sings in Solid Rock:




Well take a look at thatI made a castle in the sand
Saying this is where it's at you know
Couldn't understand now
If I realised that the chances were slim
How come I'm so surprised when the tide rolled in

I wanna live on solid rock
I'm gonna live on solid rock
I wanna give I don't wanna be blocked
I'm gonna live on solid rock

Well I'm sick of potential
I'm sick of vanity now
I'm sticking to essential reality now
I don't know what's worse
Try to make a silk purse
Living an illusion living in confusion
I'm gonna live on solid rock....

Well a house of cards
Was never built for shock
You could blow it down in any kind of weather
Now two solid rocks two solid blocks
You know they're gonna stick
Yeah they're gonna stick together

Because the heart you break
That's the one that you rely on
The bed that you make
That's the one you gotta lie on
When you point, your finger cos your plan fell through
You got three more fingers pointing back at you

I wanna live on solid rock
I'm gonna live on solid rock
I wanna give I don't wanna be blocked
I'm gonna live on solid rock
I'm solid rock now

Chris Welch has tuned for LSO, LPO, NIGEL KENNEDY. ANDRE PREVIN. DEMIDENKO, MARC-ANDRE HAMELIN, ST GEORGE'S CHAPEL WINDSOR, THE BARBICAN, FAIRFIELD HALL. CROYDON, LONDON COLISEUM, ROYAL BALLET SCHOOL. CARL DAVIS, PAUL WELLER, JOOLS HOLLAND, TOBY SMITH EX JAMIROQUAI and many others