They aren't a church, hence the title. They are the pioneers of Galatians 2:20 believing as a little Move of God all over the world, meeting originally at events organised by Norman Grubb, then forming groups such as Union Life, Zerubbabel, christasus.org However, for some reason, they do not flow very readily with the generation behind them.
Folks, I pray that you would humbly give this attention,
"God called our age group like some form of corporate Abraham to a dimension of church that was beyond Pentecostalism, that was actual meetings held where the Body could be the Body for the first time since the early days.
Everything we experienced was God switching on systems in the Spirit...but in a baby way.
Without the Nancys, the Freds the Johns the Sylvias we'd still be spiralling around in our wilderness having to practically reinvent the same wheel that Norman took 70 years to unpack. Obviously it's not reinvented, because it was always there...but it IS reinvented for our day in a way that is much much easier to get hold of, and far quicker than before."
I wrote this the other day and Nancy left our little thread.
Saints, I have to be honest. You guys have been so gobsmackingly aweinspiring , some of the awe has confused me.
I realise I have no clout amongst you, but I must put this down so you understand what is happening, or refer to it later if you are interested.
You have been used as you know to transplant the main burden of Norman's message Romans 6 to 8 to individuals or any small groups that would listen.. . In heavenly sanctuary terms your generation has introduced people to the fact that there exists a third stage of mature growth, and that one main key experience of Romans 7 failure leads to the wonderful discovery of Galatians 2:20. This is corporately a form of "the second half of the Holy Place". Or section 2 B to be crude.
Most of you have had such crushing experiences you already have put on Christ properly in a great many ways...so chunks of thirdleveldom are showing through. Rich Novek particularly likes the love atmosphere, and many have probably told you about it.
Because you will be waiting for the "But this I have against you" bit, I won't keep you in suspense. Here are some telltale foundations first.
When Jesus said unless you become as little children you cannot enter the Kingdom...that's actually what He meant.
He didn't mean....after you have entered you can put your suit tie or ballgown back on. Each new door in the Spirit we enter as children. Or we don't.
No generation to my knowledge has entered more than about two doors. Joshua and Caleb just about managed all three regions...Egypt....the wilderness....the Land. Moses didn't. The struggle in becoming a child each time is just too great. Joshua was just feeling quite cool if you remember when an angel appeared and Joshua asked if he was for them or against them? The word came back...NO. What did he mean NO, that's the wrong answer to a binary question? The angel was speaking one layer deeper down. The question came from a wrong view of who was in charge.
Psalm 45: 16 and 17 describes a new process.....and I do mean NEW...in the earth.
In place of your fathers will be your sons;
You shall make them princes in all the earth.
17 I will cause Your name to be remembered in all generations;
Therefore the peoples will give You thanks forever and ever.
The world and churches have already mimicked this with the worst of all possible options....not only are they sidelining the silverhaired wise...they certainly are giving ruling places to youngsters instead....but people who are still stuck in their own narcissism...in other words selflove fools. It would be better the old still ruled.
The vision this psalm is talking about is staggering.
It's talking about NOT SILVERHAIRED WISE PEOPLE, but a generation brought forth like Jesus....to be wise in their 30s, to be already thirdlevellers at a young age.
So how can that happen?
Three ways. And I think you know two of them.
The slow way....which doesn't really count, because it takes too many decades to produce thirdlevel young men.This is the Norman Grubb method. Virtually everyone here is far too old already for Psalm 45.
Well what about smashing up society so much that everyone is so desperate when they come into the Kingdom, like say Mary Magdalen, they move really fast? She was the first to actually listen to Jesus and be there at the resurrection tomb, remember? or Sergei Kourdakov who blasted through at a rate of knots to be a thirdleveller by his twenties, by virtue of all the gulags he'd been in , as well as swimming the Baltic to get out of Communist Russia. "If i'm dead in a few months , he said, it will be the KGB." He was suicided in Canada around 1972 or 1973.
Again , the Norman Grubb Light swallows up Dark method...but accelerated. So we'd better go along with the New World order then, and let them smash the fabric of society?
Luckily there is a third method. And this is new. It began again around 1950.
Jeremiah 31
22
“Set up for yourself roadmarks,
Place for yourself guideposts;
Direct your [k]mind to the highway,
The way by which you went.
Return, O virgin of Israel,
Return to these your cities.
22 “How long will you go here and there,
O faithless daughter?
For the Lord has created a new thing in the earth—
A woman will encompass a man.”
Before discussing this, I will slip in another telltale foundation.
The first was...unless you become as a little child, you cannot enter my Kingdom.
The second is "But you DID laugh." Genesis 18:15
If anybody can remember Norman...how he was...it is absurd that this man, on one level should be so important to the Kingdom last century. Outer appearances lie. How crazy that the singlemost great key to the world church should come through such an unlikely fella. He wasn't even Pentecostal and by far the biggest movers and shakers otherwise were.
Our generation get the same treatment from you lot. It is fantastically absurd that we should have anything in the Spirit to bring to you. Just the idea of it is so absurd Nancy, and in her, all of you, voted with her feet. I say all of you because dear Nancy is the only one of any of you who have had the amount of patience with our agegroup. Apart from Mikkel and Ole....but they are really Norman clones or Fred Pruitt clones...they also treat the bunch of us from the 70s with the same laughter as Sarah in Genesis 18. Were it the same laughter as Abraham in chapter 17, which is more the laugh of faith like Toronto?
"God called our age group like some form of corporate Abraham to a dimension of church that was beyond Pentecostalism, that was actual meetings held where the Body could be the Body for the first time since the early days.
Everything we experienced was God switching on systems in the Spirit...but in a baby way.
Without the Nancys, the Freds the Johns the Sylvias we'd still be spiralling around in our wilderness having to practically reinvent the same wheel that Norman took 70 years to unpack. Obviously it's not reinvented, because it was always there...but it IS reinvented for our day in a way that is much much easier to get hold of, and far quicker than before."
I wrote this the other day and Nancy left our little thread.
Saints, I have to be honest. You guys have been so gobsmackingly aweinspiring , some of the awe has confused me.
I realise I have no clout amongst you, but I must put this down so you understand what is happening, or refer to it later if you are interested.
You have been used as you know to transplant the main burden of Norman's message Romans 6 to 8 to individuals or any small groups that would listen.. . In heavenly sanctuary terms your generation has introduced people to the fact that there exists a third stage of mature growth, and that one main key experience of Romans 7 failure leads to the wonderful discovery of Galatians 2:20. This is corporately a form of "the second half of the Holy Place". Or section 2 B to be crude.
Most of you have had such crushing experiences you already have put on Christ properly in a great many ways...so chunks of thirdleveldom are showing through. Rich Novek particularly likes the love atmosphere, and many have probably told you about it.
Because you will be waiting for the "But this I have against you" bit, I won't keep you in suspense. Here are some telltale foundations first.
When Jesus said unless you become as little children you cannot enter the Kingdom...that's actually what He meant.
He didn't mean....after you have entered you can put your suit tie or ballgown back on. Each new door in the Spirit we enter as children. Or we don't.
No generation to my knowledge has entered more than about two doors. Joshua and Caleb just about managed all three regions...Egypt....the wilderness....the Land. Moses didn't. The struggle in becoming a child each time is just too great. Joshua was just feeling quite cool if you remember when an angel appeared and Joshua asked if he was for them or against them? The word came back...NO. What did he mean NO, that's the wrong answer to a binary question? The angel was speaking one layer deeper down. The question came from a wrong view of who was in charge.
Psalm 45: 16 and 17 describes a new process.....and I do mean NEW...in the earth.
In place of your fathers will be your sons;
You shall make them princes in all the earth.
17 I will cause Your name to be remembered in all generations;
Therefore the peoples will give You thanks forever and ever.
The world and churches have already mimicked this with the worst of all possible options....not only are they sidelining the silverhaired wise...they certainly are giving ruling places to youngsters instead....but people who are still stuck in their own narcissism...in other words selflove fools. It would be better the old still ruled.
The vision this psalm is talking about is staggering.
It's talking about NOT SILVERHAIRED WISE PEOPLE, but a generation brought forth like Jesus....to be wise in their 30s, to be already thirdlevellers at a young age.
So how can that happen?
Three ways. And I think you know two of them.
The slow way....which doesn't really count, because it takes too many decades to produce thirdlevel young men.This is the Norman Grubb method. Virtually everyone here is far too old already for Psalm 45.
Well what about smashing up society so much that everyone is so desperate when they come into the Kingdom, like say Mary Magdalen, they move really fast? She was the first to actually listen to Jesus and be there at the resurrection tomb, remember? or Sergei Kourdakov who blasted through at a rate of knots to be a thirdleveller by his twenties, by virtue of all the gulags he'd been in , as well as swimming the Baltic to get out of Communist Russia. "If i'm dead in a few months , he said, it will be the KGB." He was suicided in Canada around 1972 or 1973.
Again , the Norman Grubb Light swallows up Dark method...but accelerated. So we'd better go along with the New World order then, and let them smash the fabric of society?
Luckily there is a third method. And this is new. It began again around 1950.
Jeremiah 31
22
“Set up for yourself roadmarks,
Place for yourself guideposts;
Direct your [k]mind to the highway,
The way by which you went.
Return, O virgin of Israel,
Return to these your cities.
22 “How long will you go here and there,
O faithless daughter?
For the Lord has created a new thing in the earth—
A woman will encompass a man.”
Before discussing this, I will slip in another telltale foundation.
The first was...unless you become as a little child, you cannot enter my Kingdom.
The second is "But you DID laugh." Genesis 18:15
If anybody can remember Norman...how he was...it is absurd that this man, on one level should be so important to the Kingdom last century. Outer appearances lie. How crazy that the singlemost great key to the world church should come through such an unlikely fella. He wasn't even Pentecostal and by far the biggest movers and shakers otherwise were.
Our generation get the same treatment from you lot. It is fantastically absurd that we should have anything in the Spirit to bring to you. Just the idea of it is so absurd Nancy, and in her, all of you, voted with her feet. I say all of you because dear Nancy is the only one of any of you who have had the amount of patience with our agegroup. Apart from Mikkel and Ole....but they are really Norman clones or Fred Pruitt clones...they also treat the bunch of us from the 70s with the same laughter as Sarah in Genesis 18. Were it the same laughter as Abraham in chapter 17, which is more the laugh of faith like Toronto?
But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.
9 But we do see Him who was made [j]for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus,because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor,....
so the first is the inner seeing of Jesus, the second is when two or three gather in My Name, there am I in your midst.
Both of these are realities NOW!
Both of these are realities NOW!
You see God IS DOING SOMETHING NEW IN THE EARTH which because of people like Ole he wrote down thousands of years ahead of time so that you'd get it....and perhaps after awhile your scorn will die down.
Ole's phrase for it, ( and I guess he got this from Fred) is speculative.
This is like the Word of the Lord to Mary " You shall bear a son," "But I haven't known a man." Well now try and imagine a Norwegian Mary who has just changed sex to female, and has a camera strapped to his front to capture the Angel as He talks. And this Ole Mary, says to the angel face to face...."Mere speculation."
And you have some idea of what is happening in the Spirit these very days.
See God doesn't ask Fred what he thinks about it all. He has already started rolling it out in the natural anyway, just as the same "new thing" of psalm 45:16 is also being rolled out, kind of disastrously...well there are many good elements. So now, for the first time in history we have women running huge corporations, running countries. A woman shall cover a man....encompass a man. One of the main figures at the moment has to be Sylvia(Pearce)...and she errr...last time I looked was female.
God's third method for producing princes in the earth while still young men is the CHURCH. But like not one of you know. You've had a tabernacle version. A quick whoopsie do version at your conferences. But you are not in a locality, so not one of you has experienced a local church founded and raised in Galations 2:20. Norman almost preached it as an impossibility. And Mikkel, and Nancy and I suppose all of you think the same.
But you are forgetting the laughter of God.
Nothing is impossible for God.
Once, during Martin Luther's time, it would seem incredible to believe that you'd get as many as two people ever born again in one city.
But God has faithfully been doing two things ever since....both things represented by the rolling out of the Living Waters from underneath the throne. The characteristic of the River is strange...because the FURTHER it goes from the SOURCE the deeper it gets,,,which is physically impossible!!!!
Errrr exactly!
The two things ofcourse are that each revival has penetrated deeper into the heavenly tabernacle...the outer courts, the inner courts...and soon to be the Holy of Holies....but also rolling out the Word in greater and greater numbers. It's not uncommon for thousands upon thousands to be born again and baptised in the Spirit on one day in Africa with Rheinhard Bonnke.
I want to now connect 40 years ago with today. This very week.You. And us. Because we are different.
Another telltale foundation.
You would have thought that when us bunch of denominational people got baptised in the Spirit we'd flow quite naturally in with the pentecostal move. Why not? We're all baptised in the Spirit now....we all believe the same , right? Except the Jesus Move was 60 -70 years after the Pentecostal Move. God's Cloud had moved. We didn't blend in at all. In fact for a long while Pentecostals kept themselves to themselves. Do you know in the UK, the Baptists actually accepted the charismatic move more than the Pentecostals?
Why?
Because the 70s Move started to transmit the "NEW thing" from the 1950s manifest Sons movement. People began sharing the vision of the Church.
This is a vision of Church which comes down from above. It is run from above. Your whole understanding has to come by revelation or else you end up like Nancy who always refers to "church" as a carnal entity inherited downstream, uninterrupted out of Catholicism. And that is how you all talk about it. But anyone in the 70s Move does not talk in those terms, but in warm , born again, come out of heaven terms. Pentecostal churches were meetings you went into, like most of American churches today, and if you put Holy Ghost glasses on, all you see are piles of stones in a room. All relating to God vertically and walking in and out vertically, praying vertically,in power ministries vertically...etc etc
God began breaking that with YWAM. With the Fisherfolk and Graham Pulkingham. With John Wimber in the 80s.
But nobody had a Galatians 2:20 consciousness, so it just went as far as it could go. Kind of like IHOP Kansas today. Or Bill Johnson's place Bethel , Redding.
However...THOSE ARE REAL SPIRIT PLACES....but they may or not be quite ready for sharing Total Truth in. However most of the nascent Spirit procedures of a true third level church gathered in a locality have already started unwrapping. There are things we will be able to do as third level churches which will simply blow our minds. And that is one of the big things so evident on facebook, even with a daily consciousness of Christ in our every day. All of us were brought up in the Western world simply locked up in our leftbrains. You can't do much Christ stuff locked in your leftbrain. Power doesn't reside in our conscious thought. Goodness knows where it does reside. All i know is the Holy Spirit unlocks parts of our beings we didn't know were there. Raised by physics teachers I had no idea I was a musician type until Spirit baptised.
Church, the Bride,Coming out of heaven,a Temple not made with hands.....
The CHURCH is the WOMAN that encompasses the MANCHILD....the MATURE MAN.
The vison of the Church is a double Vision. It's a double procedure. It is both the WOMAN but a woman giving birth to a new corporate Christ.
It's a mystery. But it's true. Through history it has been true.
If you only know preaching.
If you only know singing together for a few minutes...
you have no clue as to what a true church is or does.
A true church takes you as deep into the places of God as you can fear to go. Sometimes you will be minutes or hours doing nothing...just on your face.
Everything that is true of us as individuals is true as Church...but maxed OUT!!!
It is the ladder upon which angels ascend and descend...when you only thought it was a stone pillow.
It is the portal through which you go into Eternity...whenever you meet
It is the PLACE of the NOW GOD.....and expectancy
(It's like the cupboard into Narnia)
It's the INCARNATION of a FELLOWSHIPPING GOD, something an individual can never be.
It IS the joy of the whole earth...it's just that hardly any Christians know that, and an Illuminati indoctrinated world definitely don't know that.
It's the PLACE Christ as ME becomes CHRIST AS WE IN OUR FORM
It has many pastors in the one location. It has many ministers. Everyone is a minister.
It's where the New Covenant Priesthood is VISIBLE
It is said of the CHURCH....Look how they love one another.
Christ as me in my daily life (or a bunch of people believing such per se)doesn't know anything about that, and certainly not surrounded by tens, hundreds, thousands doing the same...and yet....and yet....it's still a personal experience. Jesus made personal. He doesn't have a problem relating simultaneously personally with thousands....He's errrr...clever like that!.
Norman Grubb was right and wrong about apostles.
Nearly none of the current apostles in the world ARE apostles at all, because they aren't laying a Galations 2:20 message. But you know what? Those that are laying that message, are not doing what apostles do. Which is lay CHURCHES in this spirit. This is the grace gift of an apostle.
St Paul said (about a corrective issue)...when you are gathered together "AND MY SPIRIT IS AMONG YOU"....
what did he mean by that?
He meant he had laid a Christ foundation so that when people gathered they all gathered at HUMAN GROUND ZERO.....their gathering was UNTO CHRIST
CHRIST PLUS NOTHING.
NOT EVEN CHRIST PLUS NORMAN. Norman would be horrified by some of what you crowd are up to.
Pretty soon if not already, you'll be the Norman denomination like Zerubbabel. The Norman Conquest.
Norman only gets you as far as Romans 6 to 8. He doesn't know what happens when local churches live out from there. His books can't tell you. His books can't tell you what it's like when churches start overthrowing the New World Order ...or setting Creation free....He died too soon. It's not his baby. It's not his pigeon. That's our generation and the generation behind us. But your generation is blocking the doorway. You are insisting on doing things the way you have always done them. You ignore God totally when He says
BEHOLD I DO A NEW THING. WILL YOU NOW PERCEIVE IT?
Amen. Glory to God.
Chris Welch
26th November 2013
Hayling Island
UK
This is like the Word of the Lord to Mary " You shall bear a son," "But I haven't known a man." Well now try and imagine a Norwegian Mary who has just changed sex to female, and has a camera strapped to his front to capture the Angel as He talks. And this Ole Mary, says to the angel face to face...."Mere speculation."
And you have some idea of what is happening in the Spirit these very days.
See God doesn't ask Fred what he thinks about it all. He has already started rolling it out in the natural anyway, just as the same "new thing" of psalm 45:16 is also being rolled out, kind of disastrously...well there are many good elements. So now, for the first time in history we have women running huge corporations, running countries. A woman shall cover a man....encompass a man. One of the main figures at the moment has to be Sylvia(Pearce)...and she errr...last time I looked was female.
God's third method for producing princes in the earth while still young men is the CHURCH. But like not one of you know. You've had a tabernacle version. A quick whoopsie do version at your conferences. But you are not in a locality, so not one of you has experienced a local church founded and raised in Galations 2:20. Norman almost preached it as an impossibility. And Mikkel, and Nancy and I suppose all of you think the same.
But you are forgetting the laughter of God.
Nothing is impossible for God.
Once, during Martin Luther's time, it would seem incredible to believe that you'd get as many as two people ever born again in one city.
But God has faithfully been doing two things ever since....both things represented by the rolling out of the Living Waters from underneath the throne. The characteristic of the River is strange...because the FURTHER it goes from the SOURCE the deeper it gets,,,which is physically impossible!!!!
Errrr exactly!
The two things ofcourse are that each revival has penetrated deeper into the heavenly tabernacle...the outer courts, the inner courts...and soon to be the Holy of Holies....but also rolling out the Word in greater and greater numbers. It's not uncommon for thousands upon thousands to be born again and baptised in the Spirit on one day in Africa with Rheinhard Bonnke.
I want to now connect 40 years ago with today. This very week.You. And us. Because we are different.
Another telltale foundation.
You would have thought that when us bunch of denominational people got baptised in the Spirit we'd flow quite naturally in with the pentecostal move. Why not? We're all baptised in the Spirit now....we all believe the same , right? Except the Jesus Move was 60 -70 years after the Pentecostal Move. God's Cloud had moved. We didn't blend in at all. In fact for a long while Pentecostals kept themselves to themselves. Do you know in the UK, the Baptists actually accepted the charismatic move more than the Pentecostals?
Why?
Because the 70s Move started to transmit the "NEW thing" from the 1950s manifest Sons movement. People began sharing the vision of the Church.
This is a vision of Church which comes down from above. It is run from above. Your whole understanding has to come by revelation or else you end up like Nancy who always refers to "church" as a carnal entity inherited downstream, uninterrupted out of Catholicism. And that is how you all talk about it. But anyone in the 70s Move does not talk in those terms, but in warm , born again, come out of heaven terms. Pentecostal churches were meetings you went into, like most of American churches today, and if you put Holy Ghost glasses on, all you see are piles of stones in a room. All relating to God vertically and walking in and out vertically, praying vertically,in power ministries vertically...etc etc
God began breaking that with YWAM. With the Fisherfolk and Graham Pulkingham. With John Wimber in the 80s.
But nobody had a Galatians 2:20 consciousness, so it just went as far as it could go. Kind of like IHOP Kansas today. Or Bill Johnson's place Bethel , Redding.
However...THOSE ARE REAL SPIRIT PLACES....but they may or not be quite ready for sharing Total Truth in. However most of the nascent Spirit procedures of a true third level church gathered in a locality have already started unwrapping. There are things we will be able to do as third level churches which will simply blow our minds. And that is one of the big things so evident on facebook, even with a daily consciousness of Christ in our every day. All of us were brought up in the Western world simply locked up in our leftbrains. You can't do much Christ stuff locked in your leftbrain. Power doesn't reside in our conscious thought. Goodness knows where it does reside. All i know is the Holy Spirit unlocks parts of our beings we didn't know were there. Raised by physics teachers I had no idea I was a musician type until Spirit baptised.
Church, the Bride,Coming out of heaven,a Temple not made with hands.....
The CHURCH is the WOMAN that encompasses the MANCHILD....the MATURE MAN.
The vison of the Church is a double Vision. It's a double procedure. It is both the WOMAN but a woman giving birth to a new corporate Christ.
It's a mystery. But it's true. Through history it has been true.
If you only know preaching.
If you only know singing together for a few minutes...
you have no clue as to what a true church is or does.
A true church takes you as deep into the places of God as you can fear to go. Sometimes you will be minutes or hours doing nothing...just on your face.
Everything that is true of us as individuals is true as Church...but maxed OUT!!!
It is the ladder upon which angels ascend and descend...when you only thought it was a stone pillow.
It is the portal through which you go into Eternity...whenever you meet
It is the PLACE of the NOW GOD.....and expectancy
(It's like the cupboard into Narnia)
It's the INCARNATION of a FELLOWSHIPPING GOD, something an individual can never be.
It IS the joy of the whole earth...it's just that hardly any Christians know that, and an Illuminati indoctrinated world definitely don't know that.
It's the PLACE Christ as ME becomes CHRIST AS WE IN OUR FORM
It has many pastors in the one location. It has many ministers. Everyone is a minister.
It's where the New Covenant Priesthood is VISIBLE
It is said of the CHURCH....Look how they love one another.
Christ as me in my daily life (or a bunch of people believing such per se)doesn't know anything about that, and certainly not surrounded by tens, hundreds, thousands doing the same...and yet....and yet....it's still a personal experience. Jesus made personal. He doesn't have a problem relating simultaneously personally with thousands....He's errrr...clever like that!.
Norman Grubb was right and wrong about apostles.
Nearly none of the current apostles in the world ARE apostles at all, because they aren't laying a Galations 2:20 message. But you know what? Those that are laying that message, are not doing what apostles do. Which is lay CHURCHES in this spirit. This is the grace gift of an apostle.
St Paul said (about a corrective issue)...when you are gathered together "AND MY SPIRIT IS AMONG YOU"....
what did he mean by that?
He meant he had laid a Christ foundation so that when people gathered they all gathered at HUMAN GROUND ZERO.....their gathering was UNTO CHRIST
CHRIST PLUS NOTHING.
NOT EVEN CHRIST PLUS NORMAN. Norman would be horrified by some of what you crowd are up to.
Pretty soon if not already, you'll be the Norman denomination like Zerubbabel. The Norman Conquest.
Norman only gets you as far as Romans 6 to 8. He doesn't know what happens when local churches live out from there. His books can't tell you. His books can't tell you what it's like when churches start overthrowing the New World Order ...or setting Creation free....He died too soon. It's not his baby. It's not his pigeon. That's our generation and the generation behind us. But your generation is blocking the doorway. You are insisting on doing things the way you have always done them. You ignore God totally when He says
BEHOLD I DO A NEW THING. WILL YOU NOW PERCEIVE IT?
Amen. Glory to God.
Chris Welch
26th November 2013
Hayling Island
UK
