Showing posts with label marriage. Show all posts
Showing posts with label marriage. Show all posts

Sunday, 20 October 2024

Rabbi Manis Friedman on What Marriage Is

 Although this Rabbi discounts the Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus book, perhaps he would do the same with Mark Gungor's YouTube  talk or Church Seminar on male and female thinking .

I think those modern restatements of the Proverbs phrase " The Mystery of a Man and a Maid " were seminal .

I think Capel Bible Weeks extremely anointed message by Ern Baxter  May or June 1976 on Covenant Love was seminal ,not only for the married  couples but for families and the new covenantal communities being birthed in the Spirit across the nations at that time period .


This talk is up there with those talks and even more defined . I DO THINK IT NEEDS TO BE CONNECTED TO THE THIRD LEVEL MESSAGE .

You must also be aware that my blog is about to reach the 3 and a half million page opening but that one of the most consistently read posts hasn't been mine at all , but is written by Velveteen Rabbi . And what can I say ?????

The people or the Jewish type Web Bots have chosen!!!! .

I suspect this is going to be a well read post .


https://youtu.be/8UqUDc0CgoA?si=gpIMViiXlKPl_jDm






Sunday, 18 August 2013

Yes I Am 50 - True Love and Infatuation

Yes I Am by Norman Grubb
Chapter 50
TRUE LOVE AND INFATUATION

Another form of intercession is also on a deeply personal level and may well be misunderstood by those who have not learned the right use of their soul-body outer affections.

To start with, as we have intimated when looking into spirit-soul relationships (see Chapter 30): Do any of us know and become settled in the difference between soul-affection and spirit-love without some death-and-resurrection experience of it? The strongest form of desire is misguided soul-body "inordinate affection," which we can mistake for love. It is Paul who calls it "inordinate affection" (Col. 3:5), the misuse of the flesh in its "affections and lusts," which he says we have crucified (Gal. 5:24); and "flesh" is only another word for soul-body.

Human flesh is God’s precious way of manifesting Himself. Jesus was "God manifested in the flesh." "Sinful flesh" resulted from Satan capturing our flesh through its "affections and lusts" - flesh misused for self-gratification. But our Christ in His death "condemned sin in the flesh" (Rom. 8:3), threw sin out of ownership and put it behind bars. This means that sin no longer owns the flesh but is a condemned criminal behind bars, awaiting execution. Meanwhile, however, it shouts at us from behind its bars by using temptations of the flesh. One of these is the use of our soul-body emotions and affections for self-gratification in some diversionary "love" - as if it were genuine love - which is what Paul calls "inordinate affection" and what we here call infatuation.

But God’s love, self-giving love, which is now ours, is other-love. It may or may not be manifested through our soul-emotion and body-desire; but should it be, the emotion is not the love but only an outer expression of it. God’s love, our love as He, is a laying of ourself on the altar for others: spirit-love, a will-love, even when without the emotions of soul-love.

This is supremely so in marriage when the chemistry of the soul-body attractions has simmered down or gone into the background. Love is then the two living together, as one of my friends writes, "when we are for each other, keeping each other where we belong in Christ. It is the reality of a loving God who is living in us for each other."

Indeed, husband and wife then never raise the question of whether they love each other. Of course they do, for love means that each has given himself for the other in their marriage bond "till death do us part." That love is expressed in the practical self-giving of both in all aspects of their family life; and when both are the Lord’s, in the additional bond of spiritual fellowship and service. That is the love, of which physical and emotional love is a beautiful ingredient, but by no means the central reality of the love-bond.

But to go still further, the deepest revelation and understanding of true marriage is that all we who are in Christ are inwardly - each of us in our own self - married to Christ; so we are each inwardly bride to Bridegroom, wife to Husband. That is the only eternal and real marriage, and thus all God’s redeemed people have an inward marriage of the Spirit.

Our outer physical marriage is really a symbol of this eternal inner marriage; and that is why marriage is one to one, is not to be violated by an illicit union, and is not to be destroyed by divorce. This is what Paul is saying in Ephesians 5:25-33: "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery; but I speak concerning Christ and the church" (vss. 31-32).

As a result, when we do understand and recognize our true, eternal marriage, we do not overrate our earthly marriage, or mistake it as our true marriage. It is only as shadow to substance, symbol to reality; and we see our earthly marriage as a means of exemplifying the true, eternal union.

Many of us don’t know this ultimate truth about marriage, and so I repeat it. Each of us has our true Husband within us, we being the bride of Christ. That is the only eternal and true marriage union. Our flesh marriage is an earthly figure of it, by which we learn its joys and responsibilities, and is meant to be secondary to our true marriage. If we mistake our earthly marriage for the real one, we soon find that its hold on us weakens as the dominant factor in our lives, because it is not! It is, certainly, a fixed earthly union, but is only the shadow of the substance. For us who know this, a divorce cannot be considered or be in our vocabulary. "Let it not be named among you, as becometh saints" (Eph. 5:13).

But until we have learned to recognize the difference between spirit and soul love, it is extremely common for us to have a sudden soul-body attraction for one who is not our mate - and this can be devastatingly strong, for God created us with strong soul and body affections for His use. Then, if we have not learned our lesson, this sudden infatuation can fill us with guilt and condemnation. If we do not yet know or are unsettled in the truth that our soul and body as well as our spirit are wholly God’s, and in His total control and keeping, we can remain in great turmoil and suffer distressing temptation - or even be swept off our feet into sin - and we may appear to ourselves to be unfaithful to our mate when we are not. (Of course, those who have not been born of the Spirit can know only flesh love, and divorces these days are the common way of exchanging one flesh love for another.)

Even those of us who are God’s people may - if we have not yet grasped this division between soul and spirit – easily confuse the attraction of a soul-body "inordinate affection" with true, inner, spirit-love. It diverts us like a rival and adulterous "love." And should our mate also not recognize the difference between infatuation and real love, he or she may be consumed with jealousy or retaliation. Let us not mistake the temporary invasion of a soul-affection for the permanent reality of the spirit-love which has bound us in marriage.

Many of us, including myself, have had such an invasion of soul-love, both being condemned by it and intensely resisting it. But by that means we have learned a great secret - that the response to a soul-affection is not to resist or condemn it, but to recognize it for what it is and then use it for another purpose. We use it, and indeed swallow it up, by turning it into an opportunity to express God’s love towards that one who has attracted us. That means I inwardly "fight the battle through" by setting my affections in only one direction, with only one purpose and desire: that the one who has attracted me will have Christ fully formed in her or him - as in me. That is the single eye of faith and so the soul-affection becomes a channel of spirit other-love.

And - though it may take time when the soul-affection is strong - the whole condition is reversed from guilt and condemnation over the temptation into being a means of intercession for the other: that by my dying to a misuse of soul-affection there is a rising - first in me, by which I gain the intercession, and then in the other one - of the reality of Christ within. I have proved that as fact, for it happened just like that, as the intercession was walked and gained.

If one becomes aware of such a soul-affection in his or her mate, and at first is disturbed or jealous because of it, if he (say it is a man), rather, by faith-knowing will believe that his mate is really still fixedly bound in spirit-love to him, and will hold steady - having faith (that is, his intercession) that his mate will use that outer soul-affection for the forming of Christ in the other individual - then there will be no question raised about her continued fixedness in her mated love for him.

I know one close friend, a husband, who loves the Lord. His wife was caught by such an enslaving affection toward another man. But God used that to show her once for all the difference between soul-love and spirit-love, and settled her back in her true love to her husband. Meanwhile, her husband stood steadfastly and loyally by her, though not without pain, and by this he himself grew in the Lord. They now are a wonderful couple, steady in their own family life and helping many who have like problems.




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Yes I Am 49 - An Intercessor In Marriage

Yes I Am by Norman Grubb
Chapter 49
AN INTERCESSOR IN MARRIAGE

I want to delve a bit more deeply, by way of illustration, into a "more personal" area of intercession, where it touches on the use of our affections.

There is a close friend of mine among the many with whom we are linked in fellowship. She knows who she is: Christ in her human form. Her husband was in a good professional position and a good home-provider, but he showed no outward response to Christianity. The time came when she discovered, as a great shock, that he was having an ongoing adulterous relationship with a married woman. She faced out with the Lord the shock, hurt and resentment. What should she do? Knowing that she was not herself but Christ in her, she knew the difference between her soul hates and resentments and the love she had for her husband in her spirit, for it was God loving him by her; and just as important, she recognized that God meant her husband to be tangled up in his sex life to expose his own need to him. So instead of a marital blowout and possible divorce, she informed her husband that she had found out what was going on, but that she loved him as ever - for he was her husband and she his wife. That shook him! When he expected a blast, he got only a confirmation of her unchanged love. This brought a reply to her which was another shock - a good one. He said, "Well, if that is Christianity, I can listen to it!"

The result was that after some weeks, while she knew the adulterous relationship continued, the moment came when she told her husband that she would like to meet with him and the woman. They agreed. The three met - and surely this would be the time for strong words by my friend. Instead, she just accepted facts as facts (despite her inner hurt) and said to them, "It can’t go on like this. Make the choice. Either go with her and leave me and the children, or break off the relationship and return to me." The husband and the woman both agreed. The severance was made, and he returned home. But far more than that, God has done such a transforming work in him, with repentance and renewal, that he is now a strong witness for Christ and busy helping other men who get caught in that same trap.

This is intercession. With little said about the inner-death way in which she walked - which was the background for her steadfast love, and at the right moment, holy boldness - she gained the intercession by the Spirit Intercessor in her, doubtless with "groanings that cannot be uttered."

Another close friend had an experience somewhat the same. Her husband holds a public position in his profession and is a man who loves the Lord. What a shock when she found out that he had a secret liaison, with visits to a motel, with one who was a close friend in whom she confided.

She first challenged her husband about this adultery over the phone. He is an honest man who knows the Lord, and he admitted his descent into the flesh, and his sin against God and wrong against her. But then he added, "If the woman’s husband learns of this, he is a man of such influence that he could destroy me in my profession." My friend’s answer straightaway to her unfaithful husband was, "I am your wife. If you have a crash professionally, then I crash along with you."

This is intercession. With little said about the inner-death way in which she walked - which was the background for her steadfast love, and at the right moment, holy boldness - she gained the intercession by the Spirit Intercessor in her, doubtless with "groanings that cannot be uttered."
 The result of that was that the husband - who, as I say, knows the Lord - took one big jump of faith right then and there, and he has told me how he moved from being the struggling and defeated man of Romans 7 to the liberated man in Romans 8. He saw "in a flash of the Spirit" that there was no more condemnation, and that he was released "by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus." The result in their marriage is that where there had been an unhappy relationship between them, it has so changed that she now tells me her husband is her best friend!

As for the woman who had so wronged and deceived her, the day my friend first heard of this she called the florist and ordered one white rose in a vase to be sent to her. There was admission of guilt, but it took time for a real heart repentance. But the day came when she plainly told my friend that she had not before really admitted her wrongdoing, and she asked for forgiveness. My friend’s answer: "I need forgiveness just as much from you, because of my hate and resentful attitude towards you." And there was a time of reconciliation.





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Sunday, 31 May 2009

KMOO Rollout Has Been Success!


FOLLOWING THE SUCCESS OF THE INITIAL KMOO ROLLOUTS INTERNATIONALLY, BUT PARTICULARLY HERE IN EUROPE AND THE UNITED STATES, FURTHER KMOO PROGRAMMES ARE BEING DRAFTED FOR THE FIELDS OF INSURANCE ,BANKING,MORTGAGE LENDING , ARMY RECRUITMENT,EDUCATION ,RELIGION AND POLITICAL REFORM.


This week leaders from both the United Nations and the European Community were celebrating the success of the initial rollouts of the KMOO programme in marriage, childcare, finance and religion. Although KMOO is virtually unknown in its abbreviated form in the wider world, leaders have been designing and shaping programmes for decades according to a worldwide KMOO philosophy.




KMOO is simply an abbreviation of Keep My Options Open.It is a philosophy that has been found to be entirely in keeping with the modern understanding of our evolution as human beings. It takes its basis from the survival of the fittest and is completely at odds with the older traditionalist and non-secular view of religion.





One of the most well-known applications of KMOO has been in the field of human relationships. Usually referred to as "living together", KMOO marriage has been found to be the most pragmatic answer to instructing large numbers of people in preparation for marriage and building family units.



In former times, the largely religious view was felt to be far too demanding , both in its frameworks which required more complex understandings of largely discarded philosophies such as fidelity, and love which considers the partner's wishes above his or her own. With population numbers and population densities increasing, the long and complicated explanations of such matters are now considered by most, as unwieldy and at worst as impractical in a world where the average attention span of most humans is 12 minutes 30 seconds.Possibly less straight after watching XFactor.

The greatest successes have been the changeover in education where KMOO has been applied. By encouraging sexual experimentation with numbers of partners by focussing more on the mechanics of contraception, the previous poor use of time management whereby elders and supervisers would try and prevent the young from too serious involvement with each other too soon in life, has now been discarded in favour of leaving them to get on with it, thus leaving the older generation more hours to go about their own concerns.





KMOO has its detractors however. Craig Little of Pro Family Management, a traditionalist social education hub in the UK, has brought up the issue of the UK having the largest teen pregnancy figures in Europe. KMOO enforcers , in reply have called for thicker, more durable condoms.





Craig Little recently also brought up the question of longterm psychological problems caused by partners breaking their relationships whenever small to medium problems emerged while co-habiting in KMOO marriages. The international KMOO thinktank have collected data on these matters, and while their psychologists have observed an increase in the levels of depression, often hidden under layers of displacement behaviour, with professional help most return to relative normality in 20- 30 years. This , they believe is a small price to pay rather than the high financial cost of providing some kind of secular alternative education to get over the complicated concepts formerly taught at no cost by churchmen in earlier centuries in their sermons.





KMOO behaviour, it is insisted has led to very "colourful and varied" existences as mixed parents and mixed siblings learn to appreciate and blend with their new extended families. This has also led, they point out, to the proliferation of Theme Parks and Macdonalds outlets, where the doting single parent can take his or her children on the one day per week they may see their offspring. Children largely learn to adapt to their new conditions and are well able to bury their hurts for the 20 or 30 years necessary to function as relatively normal, but medicated individuals in the modern workplace.





Kaye Volkhardt of the Traditional Marriage Bureau challenges the KMOO vision of relationships when she says"Partners who live together know only a kind of "present commitment". They have never known the joy of abandonment of any other agenda to a lifelong mutual commitment to another being. They miss out on knowing that their partner has made a firm bottomline decision to be with them and them alone."





KMOO specialists dismiss this as an ostrich view of life, which denies that the world has moved on into a fuller understanding of "survival of the fittest", and "getting on at the expense of the other".




KMOO Childcare




Perhaps the greatest success in KMOO development has been the implementation of laws in the field of Childcare. In later years this has indeed concerned greater provision of child care, but since the 1960's KMOO childcare has usually used the more abstract word "abortion". This involves the careful implementation of a parent's choice to benignly end a child's life. KMOO experts have found it far less emotive and effective to use medical vocabulary like foetus and termination.




This gives great freedom to the parent and greatly adds to a KMOO enjoyment of life.




Craig Little has long opposed abortion and asks healthcare providers if anyone has considered the rights of the unborn child? He doubts whether the use of medical words has any effect for the unborn child, whose rights are diminished in the same way whether emotive terms such as killed or impersonal words such as foetus or termination are used. Either way, its life is stopped.




Again KMOO proponents see only a success story, since neither the parent nor the state have any ongoing costs to find, the parent can continue to be in full time work, supplying more tax payments to further develop KMOO political advances. It is a win-win situation that would be extremely expensive and troubling to reverse, and would in turn in no way conform to the tenets of "survival of the fittest" and Darwin.



In the last few years the KMOO philosophy of religion has been so succesfully implemented in schools, that its fundamental tenets are now being applied to high finance and politics. And nothing has been found to work better in both when moving from bull to bear markets, from highrolling investment to market crashes.



It enables both high bankers, industrial heads and politicians to keep their powerbase when ordinarily in the weaker models of centuries past, they would have lost their power, and most probably their lives.This is one of the great strengths in KMOO development; learning how to create a smokescreen of such brilliant intensity that everyone is afraid to identify such fundamental questions as responsibility which so threatened stability in historical settings. By removing this base and worthless principle and instituting the far more Darwinian "power for power's sake" , groups of individuals are better able to leverage exit strategies that are ultimately more appealing than simply "losing one's head" for the sake of any cause. So high bankers, industrial heads and political groups keep in power longer,while their power vehicle may change completely. This , it has been found by KMOO educators, has been a much more encouraging carrot for school leavers and university graduates who seek to learn from KMOO successes and follow on in their train.



What was it about rolling the KMOO philosophy of religious education into schools that acted as such a stimulus to these other areas? Leon Schmitten of EU council Affairs explains, " The old model of unity based on any solid foundation such as "truth" , say, was found to be unworkable in such a large field of opposing opinions. By creating a climate where everybody's tenets of faith are continually presented in unmanageable quantities , everybody's minds are so overworked that it better suits our framework of "Keeping All the Options Open" continually, so no one is embarrassed by ever having to nail his decision to one particular mast. This keeps every party happy that their side is being discussed openly and freely, without having to undergo the frictions that deciding for one route or one course was ultimately the correct way." Leon said this policy had been found to work in such a stupendous way in teaching RE in schools.



Charles Gridlock of CTS (Christianity Today in Schools) disagrees. "Presenting Christianity as in any way equal to other religions is false for these reasons, whether a person wishes to ultimately follow its tenets.



Firstly no other religion has laid itself bare when it comes to prophesying the end from the beginning. From declaring x hundred details about what the Messiah would be like, down to how things will wind up on Earth. No other religion has been that stupid, or accurate, depending on your belief.



Secondly no other religion has been stupid enough to declare "another agent" other than man himself for his salvation. All other religions construct their own hoops through which a man may leap. And many versions of Christianity have stooped back down to this model rather than accept their own core original beliefs".



KMOO maintain that while these things may be so, their method has galvanised a lot more disparate groupings together into one manoeverable mass, than has ever been acheived by getting people to believe a certain way.



Charles counters with another problem as he sees it. "The Bible maintains that its method, which it self-titles as folly, is to be disseminated through what it calls "the folly of preaching". By removing access to this, disallowing it in another words, Christianity has declined in schools to the level of one of many historical teachings that fly in the face of the popularly-assumed superior Darwinian model of understanding."



"And the problem is..?" ask KMOO representatives Richard Dawkins,Brian Eno and Philip Pullman.



"The problem is no schoolboy or girl in this day and age is once encountering Christianity properly during the whole of their school life."replies Gridlock"They only hear vague and disputable ideas about Christianity third hand."



"Exactly" , say KMOO. "This removes choice, and this is what we ultimately stand for. Our ideas which stand for the "survival of the fittest" have indeed been shown to be the only ones fit for survival."



On the back of 40-50 years of stupendous success, KMOO are now proposing rolling out new forms of KMOO contracts in areas such as banking, mortgage-lending and army recruitment.



The Head of KMOO policy in the UK , Mr.Lionel Greyshade, explains.



"The old forms of commitment such as marriage have been shown to be too unworkable, so we will be initially rolling out "Present Day" commitment forms in fields like house buying. The lender will pick a house and simply say "I'd like to live in it until such time as it doesn't suit me any longer and then move on instantly to another dwelling. "The loan institution will take back the lion's share of the property that the borrower has spent several years paying for, in the manner of a divorce or partnership breakdown, and the house buyer will then move off virtually penniless to another property."



"Isn't that virtually the same as property rental?" we asked.

"Similar, but its got a better KMOO title...Present Day commitment mortgages. Sounds current and more up to date."



Army Generals, faced with recruitment problems are now considering KMOO as their only hope. Present Day Army contracts are being developed this year which fully tally with KMOO objectives.



"I promise to join the army and serve it as long as it suits me.Should I feel at a later date that it is asking too much from me, namely my life, I will move on to another job or unemployment."



KMOO were finally asked whether they thought that in the long term their tenets of faith were largely unworkable? What matters in life, is what matters now, was the reply.

author's rights reserved:Chris Welch May 2009





(In true Iggy style, can I just state that this has been a spoof. I do not hold to this belief system nor recommend it. )