Learning Our Romans 8 Agency in the Earth

 

God's original command to Adam still stands . Go , multiply , fill the earth and Subdue it .

A bit like the Baal Priests setting up every obstacle they could to Elijah , God still performed His Word through Elijah .

It was a bit of a Shazam thing which needed regulating , because there was still " an authority gap " which the Jezebel spirit snuck between to terrorise him.

Simply put , while Kings kids are learning their agency , God still stands by His Name when people rub Aladdins Lamp to get the genie .

Until Kings kids get towards total agency .

God has magnified His Word above His Name .

God allowed the fire incident to show something .

God allowed Israelites to choose kings to demonstrate things about that type of order .

God has magnified His Word above His Name , means things like He has allowed his sons to do teenage , or the young man state while they grow into their real estate in Him .

The earth is given to the sons of men. But the operation is within the Word , the Person , the Union , of the Trinity in them . John 14.21, and John 17.21

We have to move from the American Elijah fire gospel to perceiving a cloud the size of a man's hand gospel , that becomes national rains .

We see what is in heaven and we bring it in to the earth.

We do not see heirarchy in God's actual work .

Angels taught us heirarchy and armies .

America actually call their chief ruler Commander in Chief exposing their rule as military from the top down .

If the church refuse to learn the Romans 8 way of setting the earth free , and they are the pillar and ground of truth , how will the rest of the earth learn rulership ?

Galatians 2.20 and Colossians 3.3 are THE METHOD of true agency to fulfil the mandate to Adam.

( Even now , even now , if you come in the name of a living being into Maritime Law Court , the court cannot be held legally , because our souls are planted on the earth we stand on . We are not dead souls at sea , being tried over water as fiction selves ).

The Lords prayer talks about hallowing Gods Name . Well , God has magnified His Word above His Name and He is growing His Sons according to His Word in the Son , and magnifying it even above His fulfilment in the One Son, to bring MANY SONS TO GLORY .

Jesus said " Now is the Son of Man glorified , the devil has no landing places in Me ".

This is the work of the interior part of the Lord's Prayer , which results in bringing forth the Body of Christ in the earth .

Do not be deceived by the brevity of the 1 John 2 growth stages.

Do not be deceived by the brevity of the three internal prayers of the Lord's Prayer .

Do not be deceived by the brevity of Revelation 12. 1

Do not be deceived by the brevity of the Psalm 84 passage in how God's servants are revealed .

They are mystic passages, which simply means pertaining to our Sonship and the mystery of sin that was our reality and the mystery of Christ in us the hope of glory .

Before , our glory was in heaven only . Through the mystery of God's Word magnified even above His Name, Christ in us as us gets to do things that never were conceived in our mind nor entered into the heart of man .

These are the actualities that we are speaking into being as we speak these mysteries in tongues .

God could not entrust these things to our mind , we would have never spoken them out !!!!!

Like

Comment

Share

Ed Miller and Jorge Pradas and Ian McCulloch redefined ecclesia in our era .

There's no getting away from what Jesus said .

God is Spirit and must be worshipped in Spirit and truth .

Remember, the American AOG missionary to Argentina , Ed , got pig sick of going nowhere in his ministry . He ofcourse had no way of knowing Argentina had just been taken over spiritually by the blackest of evil , Nazi SS who were operating their blood sacrifice LOOSH over the whole of Argentina .

But this forced opposite action . Ed stamped his feet and said " God I am not doing another thing until I see some breakthrough ".

There is a YouTube message of stuff I never heard from his mouth , of his Revival background . He knew what revival was .

There's a complete description , which amounts to Loosh ,that he was pressing through in the Spirit .

But one thing he learned en route is proper church .

We hate the word mystic being physical people .

But the point of entering the path of God is to learn the truth of spirit to a people accustomed to 6000 years of lockdown in our material senses .

A radio station isn't fuzzy and nebulous if we have the right wavelength and the right machine to perceive it , and that's a radio .

Jesus didn't walk through walls because He was fuzzy and wispy . He walked through walls because His resurrected body was more substantial than atoms with lots of space between them . He showed His hands and cooked a barbecue on the shoreline later .

The gates and walls of praise and Thanksgiving are what leads us into the realm we describe as mystical . But baptism in the Spirit and gathering in Jesus Name sets up a portal whereby we begin touching heaven and learning and worshipping God who is greater than creation , more substantial than creation ....and the truer church gets ....not really mystical at all .....blooming tangible . Ask Jonathan Brennemann .

There was the Argentina revival through Tommy Hicks , and about one revival per decade in different places through Ed Miller's intercession and the Word He brought into churches .

He was behind getting the converted hippies with Chuck Smith to learn orchestral instruments which produced all those 50 or so praise albums in the 70s.

Ed taught Ian McCulloch and Jorge Pradas how to do church . Seriously , it was like a Book of Ezra learning experience but in the Holy Spirit . Through Claudio Friedzon and many others we have spent the last decades relearning church .

Through a diverse fork in things , to do with Jessie Penn Lewis trying to get Norman Grubb Baptised in the Spirit , but failing , we got instead .....go figure .....Norman's complete treatise and articulation on the more Book of Nehemiah side of things .....how real world living works with Word of faith , and Christ in us as us , Galatians 2 20.

Our meme is , a sword in one hand and a trowel in the other .

Bible Houses were our stab at the two sides simultaneously .

Like the disciples learning off Jesus how Melchizedek gatherings worked . " I only do what I see the Father doing " psalm 123 stuff .

And living full time with Jesus who was modelling life off the Genesis 3 delusion , after 30 years practice as a human .

So we have had the Ed Miller strand of things , through the praise albums , places like Bible Temple in Oregon etc

And we have had the 24/7 living side of things through the 60 years missionary titan of WEC , founded with CT Studd , including Inter Varsity Press and the University Christian Unions originally called Inter Varsity Unions of Norman Grubb.

All in the one century !!!

This is to take us to thirdlevel church like Acts Jerusalem Church in every location .

Elders revealed before God in Zion ....in every town , instead of rolling out pyramid church franchises like the whole of our generation producing stultified ineffective Ishmaels in every place because nobody learned the Romans, Ephesians sequences properly inwardly in the Spirit .

Unless we fall into the ground we dwell and minister alone .....

Unless we abide in the Word we never really get the awful and glorious truth properly which are both mysteries .....and we never get truly free

Unless we learn everything from the ground up like little children again .....without figleaves .....and off Genesis 3 altogether, we never position ourself spiritually to see Kingdom .....think of it like a holy version of platform 9 3/4 in Harry Potter .

Jesus arrived bang on time .....but only those whose inner eyes were ready saw Him . He was really there . In one day Peter saw Him . He wasn't just an ex carpenter . He was the Mesheach , disguised as a carpenter ....except His disguise was real .

The Kingdom is believing all round us like the radio frequencies .....have we got the gear yet to perceive it ??

That's what real ecclesia is .....not silly ecclesiastica with an additional stic plonked on it to make it some quasi Levitical frilly order of priests again ....

Ecclesia and the specific instructions for it are quite literally Platform 9 3/4 , a portal of heaven , where the quite literal Body of Christ forms .

Hence Jorge Pradas' insistence on Revelation 12 church .....a Woman Overshadowing the New Manchild !!!!

Ed Miller had to learn all this stuff because AOG was so much about power presentations that they weren't understanding anything of the third stage of growth which takes us beyond foolish virgins with one flask of oil .

Finding Each Other locally

 

1st and 2nd level situations Can be Extremely limiting

Three related Facebook Posts of mine this week:
I got nervous this week when I saw a poster on Facebook for a "deliverance Class"

Who gets nervous about secondlevellers operating in thirdlevel ministries?
I am not talking about the gifts. I am talking about ministries which have greater than church impact.
Particularly deliverance.
Some of us refer to the Dark Night of the Soul or the living experience of Romans 6 and 7 to be somewhat our Log extraction moment.
Jesus said don’t attempt splinters if you are still hampered by a wacking great log in your eye.
There is no greater log than still carting round Genesis 3 separation consciousness.
I don’t care if you have a supernatural propensity for deliverance..... my area initially was prophecy worship and worship songs.....
But would I feel happy being in that area as a definite ministry without walking right through Romans.....
No.
And because of the very tale Jesus told of a house being cleaned and tidied, but then the demons return because it’s all clean and nice bringing 7 times as many back.
How are you going to move effectively in deliverance if you are still in the root problem that brought the whole foul condition to earth..... Genesis 3?

Can we have some thirdlevel deliverance ministries and prophets please, oh and apostles.
If only to prove to Preterists they still exist.

===============

I divided myself off here from Francois duToit and Andre Rabe and Anne Marie for two sets of reasons. Anne Marie because she doesn't do iron sharpens iron and just like Lydia Du Toit puts up extremely positive stuff sharing the love of Christ.
In that sense you can get in anywhere with that message. ( I would recommend anybody to hitch up with all of them)
Nobody is going to be offended by somebody preaching 1 Corinthians 13.
I felt like.St Paul writes.....while Francois is ripping up the earth with Andre sharing the amazing message of the Mirror Laver you can only applaud that and think it's wonderful that Jesus Name is being lifted up.

But boy, for me, already squashed in a box for 20 years and finally let out on the internet, it was just way too confusing hanging around them all, while God is trying to take the message further to something that St Paul and the other apostles are saying. I think Francois and Andre get the basic idea that there has been a switch, but they don't seem to preach yet on the effects of the switch.

Most of Watchman Nee gets this far but that isn't because Nee didn't know more, as we can hear from any of the tapes by Witness Lee, his associate.
The sad thing is the books were all from the early notes and messages before they had been road tested and road travelled in persecuted church, and later of course prison.

So in book form the deeper Bible messages as to how Christianity works are only to be found in people like Basilea Schlink and Ed Miller and messages of Sam Fife etc.
Here's the truth guys.... the community in Darmstadt were BEYOND ANYTHING BASILEA PUT IN BOOKS. She put the effects in books like Realities.... But the mystical processes not so much. Yet when I lived with them they were sharing more of the “how's” of the deeper walk.And this wasn't theory with them.....they lived that way......But still in quite a Lutheran way, which wasn't that accessible to modern Germans and English people.

Ed Miller and Jorge Nuria Pradas were way beyond anything they put in books. Unlike Francois and Andre Rabe who you go primarily to hear , these guys could preach, and they preached stuff that people are still catching up with today, but primarily you hung around them for the way they ran meetings in such a way that God could show up.

It was allowing God direct access to His Church and the Church building up the Church as in Ephesians 4.
You were participating in the very way God dismantles His people in the manner of the Lords Prayer ready for rebuilding them.for the final section of declaration.

All the work of.God is ultimately to take people right through the material in the psalms of.Ascent 120-134 but to.rebuild them from scratch and join them together as priests 133 ready for the final climax and showdown of declaration blessing over the whole earth 134.

Charismatic meetings do early prototypes.of this but they haven't been through the processes of Romans 6and 7 in the covered portions of the Tabernacle.....the Heavenly one.
Laying the foundations of Romans 3 to 5 on a Mediterranean cruise......While necessary......It doesn't actually get you to that place of authority that Christ is taking His Church to.

----------------------
When you meet a thirdleveller you are projecting your hell onto them.
Nearly everything about them is offensive.
Read your gospels will you?
Watch. Every single small phrase. The ones you glide past.
Look at how the disciples treated Jesus when they returned from shopping in John 4. They really are the ugly sisters. Jesus is Cinderella. By speaking to one “ disallowed woman, a Samaritan” virtually her whole village had come to God. And the disciples are complaining about not helping with the Sainsbury’s shopping bags!!!!

Or others in history
“Children are taught the story where Alfred is on the run from the Vikings, taking refuge in the home of a peasant woman. She asks him to watch her cakes – small loaves of bread – baking by the fire, but distracted by his problems, he lets the cakes burn and is roundly scolded by the woman. Historic-Uk

This is all any English Child is taught about the incredible Christian king. But that’s how Catholic Jesuits rewrite our histories. Good job we have early records of the Bible, think what Jesuits would do with it.
Jesus healing birds at two or levitating bears or something. Yet what the New Testament actually says, no Catholic wants to know and obey!!!!!

GOD's.EXE FILE 3.0 (beta) A Study of Emsworth Church 1978-84

Study these faces. Where are the bitterness lines? Ian was chucked out of the Brethren for.preaching baptism in the Spirit. Lost everything as a missionary in Argentina. Jorge escaped certain death under Franco in the civil war, then lived under Peron and some of the worst inflation in the planet anywhere in Argentina. Ed Miller was an American missionary getting absolutely nowhere in Catholic/Jesuit/Nazi Argentina. All broke through in God and were pioneers in the heavenly Tabernacle in our generation, and more than anyone currently writing on the net.....the Spirit know-how of how you take whole congregations through in the Living Presence of God. Not without personal frictions.....but that would have been totally thirdlevel and God knows how when and where He is bringing His Kingdom in. Can you imagine meetings with just one of these gentlemen.....Sometimes we had all 3!!!!!! Acts 2 formed.itself.around 12 such broken gentlemen......we have yet to see any geographical location anywhere with baptised in the Spirit leaders any further into God than Romans 3 to 5. If they are further like Bill Bowers of Los Angeles then they are rejected by all the Romans 3 to 5 ers. If you want to see this dynamic of rejection or awkwardness going on in your Bible with Jesus then read John 4. The disciples GRILLED Jesus because they were meeting centric and to them Jesus had been lazy by not going shopping with them. We take it all for granted because we read John 4 with insider knowledge now.....but this is exactly what first and secondlevellers are like.....They simply can't get hold of the fact that Jesus knew who He was, and was functioning in real time in the Father......and at this point in their lives there were evangelistic meetings with the Spirit moving and then the rest of Life when you had to go shopping. Jesus was a spontaneous meeting point for everybody to meet God at all times......and this was all happening in a Spirit flow at the well with the Samaritan. It didn't even figure in the disciples.brains that in about two hours Jesus had been led to cross about three human boundaries......woman....Samaritan.....immoral. had used word of knowledge.....had then got her so fired up the entire village came out.... Perhaps everyone had since cleared off and the disciples.came.back with shopping and somehow Jesus has to explain all the things that just happened.....but He is now standing alone by the well. Er Jesus they said exactly how long does it take to drink a bit of water!!!!!
Chris Welch Facebook comment on yesterday's blogpost
===================================
continued as a blog

The Kingdom is not LO HERE or LO There....
unfortunately.
If I pointed you to Emsworth Church now it is called New Life Christian Church down Thorney Rd on the way down Thorney Island near Emsworth and Portsmouth UK.
Jorge's churches are likewise based throughout the Provinces of Argentina but based at Quilmes Buenos Aires. And Ed Miller's churches are scattered, but some are in Argentina and America.
THAT ISN'T THE POINT.
But for me in my Melchizedek Order experience
the Spirit had me dialling up a booking for I knew not where as I walked into the campus of Exeter University at the end of my first year during the summer term(1978). I took a leap of faith and announced that I would not be returning. This was in the days when the State paid your university bills. So, yes, I left without having any idea what was going to become of my life.  I had no idea that I was a Romans 3 to 5-er because to me and our generation just a bit older, like Terry Virgo, who took some of my songs round with him, we all thought
HAVE ANOINTING - WILL MINISTER.NOT THAT SIMPLE

Nobody knew there was a thirdlevel, there were just "special ministries", "big names", "people like Graham Pulkingham and Juan Carlos Ortiz that got their current books prominent in all Christian bookshops."
But from one little article in the charismatic Catholic magazine New Wine which spelt out the main features of how thirdlevel worked my spirit had already worked out much more than I could verbally articulate.   Like also, having just been baptised in the Spirit 6 years earlier, when I just gorged on all the letters of the New Testament, I knew inside me that the gospel  Eric Chambers of Old Town Baptist Church Amersham, and Tim La Haye - Late Great Planet Earth....was NOT the same gospel that Paul was preaching. But I couldn't put my finger on that either.

God has to train every son of God in being able to follow the Spirit.
Those who follow the Spirit , these are the sons of God.
The Melchizedek Order is peopled by a priesthood who have learned Psalm 123 living.
"I only do what I see the Father doing"....and "the Father is still working, so must I ,said Jesus."

1. TRUE CHURCH IS ON DIALUP ONLY   (in the Spirit)
2. The Spirit has to baptise you INTO the Church. He has to introduce you and introduce others to you because without Him all you will see is very ordinary flesh and blood people....but hereafter we see no man after the flesh
3. NOT BY MIGHT NOR BY POWER BUT BY MY SPIRIT.  It is good to think of the Kingdom a bit like Amersham International which began as the Radiochemical Centre. They made radio active tracing compounds for Xray use in hospitals. Ron Knight, who discipled me into Christ, made these things in his job in leadlined cubicles with leadlined rubber tubing in which he poked his arms.
   In the Spirit, the independent self has no part in, no inheritance with the saints in Light. Fleshlife which we now see is the false consciousness that came in at the Fall in Genesis 3, has no part in the Melchizedek Order, no part in the Church. Before we have Galatians 2.20 consciousness the Spirit trains us in prayer to GO INSIDE.....to SHUT THE OUTER DOOR of leftbrain traffic....and to MEET WITH OUR FATHER IN THE SECRET PLACE.
   We put on our leadlined equipment which is the Ephesians 6 GARB, or GARMENTS, and we function in the Kingdom
   
   initially 1 Corinthians 12-14, in little bitesize chunks....then later as we are schooled in the WAY of God....in greater ministry lumps.
   But it seems, however mature....John 15 says the Father is always pruning and chopping off bits in order to bring forth greater fruit.
   
   Not By Might, Nor By Power, But By My Spirit , which I have often puzzled over, has been shown to also refer to the heavenly Tabernacle.
   
   Might is clear. This is human strength. This is the church of the outer courts. Systems etc. It also refers to the whole of the Old Testament. The outer way of working.
   
   Power has been more subtle.
   But Elijah moved in power, but the kickback from Darkness through Jezebel's demonic power scared him witless.
   The Pentecostal realm was all about demonstrations of power, but like Barnum Showmen, there is something very shonky tradesman about that whole way of operating.
   Certainly Elijah had all the fear blasted out of him by the first two Divine Sequences...Whirlwind and Fire.... but then Elijah, now free of these fears, could hear God's still small voice.
   This is the realm of pure Spirit that David Swann has written about in Entering into the Holy of Holies.
   
   It marks out the three men above, who, operating at the time of the big named ministries....chose to ONLY BUILD what God was telling them to build. At one point the mighty general in God called Bryn Jones wrote a very nasty threatening letter to Ian McCulloch which showed more about where Byn was, than where I an was.
   
   Ian , Jorge and Ed contented themselves to build relatively small works , but out of which a whole generation of people like me would emerge who were aware of the protocols of the Melchizedek Order.
   
   I have always been grateful for Geraldine's obedience when the Holy Spirit told her to give over her whole 3 storey (Swiss style) house up New Brighton Rd Emsworth, ( no 42) at the precise time of the formation of Emsworth Church and the first Bible House (Casa Biblica). Only in heaven will we see the "return" on that investment. Certainly her family, who rightly were due all the proceeds, never got anything from what would have been rightly theirs.
   I have since tuned for one of her children.

Stay close to ME and let My love flow over you!


Stay quietly close, let it sink into your soul;


There you may be, waiting quietly near to ME,


Drinking from the Cup that I am giving you.


Moment by moment let this quiet waiting be


Quiet and undisturbed, resting near My heart.


Leave all to Me, how well I know your deepest longings,


No other heart can understand like Mine.





Just like a book your life lies open to Me


How well I know what's written on each page;


Heart's desires and longings, fears and strong imaginings;


Nothing goes unseen - The Light of love sees all!


How dear you are, My dear one, you will come to know


When you see my Son dying on that Cross for you;


Only His Blood can touch and cleanse away all sin


for He has lived in a body - just like yours;





And He knows the rugged pathway,


He knows the hard frustrations,


There's no place of sorrows


He doesn't know them too.





So my dear one, stay here close


And know the Love I have for you,


Comfort sweet and sure! Your own place in My heart"

(God's own gift to all who want to share in this treasure - for you too!" )

====================
Remember the old series of Dr Who when he was this unassuming character who after sorting everything out quietly left in his Tardis before any could make a fuss of him. There's something amazingly Dr Who and Jesus about Geraldine, who after giving her whole house, at the end of her life settled alone in a small Emsworth bungalow, knowing that New Life Christian Church was chuntering away, but not that sure about where it was heading, but yet as her near term memory loss was increasing, she was glued to the Father's love and hope and confidence in Him and what she could not see.
Except, I believe the answer to her prayer as she handed over the key to the Swiss style house DOESN'T just ENTAIL some pig-mamy old style temporary revival in England, which we don't see with our eyes. BUT THE WHOLE ENORMITY of THIRDLEVEL CHURCH  BEING BORN AND LEADING TO THE ISAIAH 60 PROPHECY ITSELF.

A GREAT LIGHT OF GALATIANS 2.20...THE ROCK THAT DESTROYS THE WHOLE OF THE IMAGE IN DANIEL'S VISION.....
BASICALLY DESTROYING LIVING IN THE IMAGE OR THE FIGLEAF....BUT A RETURN TO SPONTANEOUS TOTAL REALITY IN CHRIST.

IF YOU ABIDE IN ME THEN YOU ARE TRULY MY DISCIPLES AND YOU SHALL; KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE.

(ELSEWHERE.....AND FREE INDEED)

The return on Geraldine's gift is like Jesus Cross itself.....without measure.

God's . EXE file 2.0

Because so few people have seen a real church it may be helpful to describe what the Kingdom exe file of my blogpost looks like while it is still installing.
The MIDDLE of the Lord's Prayer is absolutely key to the functioning of the self-installing Kingdom in the Church.
Yes....you can think of the Lord's prayer in a usual one off way where you plough through it all together in a reading.
But the key issue missed in churches that have blocked the Holy Spirit, by denouncing proper experiential repentance, water baptism and complete infilling of the Holy Spirit...
it means you don't understand the last bit.
So whether you take the Lord's prayer as a blueprint for a single meeting.....or whether you take it as a longer process of the Spirit, the outcome of both is the same....
Like a massive detox, the final DECLARATION BIT Bursts out of your innards IN POWER.
But if you are Catholics, Methodists,Anglicans, Baptists even, and so on.....you haven't actually done the first bit of meeting God properly, so you never experience the dynamic DETOX processes of the Holy Spirit, so ofcourse you never see in your services the massive Holy Spirit release that this causes. You won't have seen this in others, and you certainly won't have experienced it in yourself.
The THREE levels of your being are sifted through at microscopic level by the Holy Spirit Himself.....
Your physical needs.....WHO IS YOUR SUPPLY? God or Mammon. Boy this is visceral. It literally decides for you if you are going to be sucked into the New World Order, denying Christ or not.
Emotionally....you just cannot carry around those hurts and bitternesses ....you HAVE for your own sake to forgive others as they forgive you. This means more when you are in a real church that actually lives together, as the Holy Spirit designs His real church
Spiritually, and often way out of sight, you have to let the Holy Spirit go deep into every aspect of your agendas and operating system.....
Boy how many secondeveller preachers do I hear who preach on various things, and I can just hear in my spirit....they are still as attached to the devil in that area as any non Christian, they are self deceived.
NOW do you understand the full import of
In His LIght do we see Light and
Walk in the Light with one another even as He is in the Light, having fellowship with one another.....and if we do...His BLOOD....cleanses (active verb) us from all sin....
ie not just clearing us from guilt and shame.....CLEARING US PERIOD !!!!! If you abide in My Word then you are truly my disciples and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you????????
YUP
FREE. FREE INDEED.
Now any of you that have been around this revelation of the working of the Body of Christ since God accelerated the Church vision in the 70s....WILL KNOW what it is like living with Job's friends.
First and secondlevellers get "bees in their bonnets" or the "gift of suspicion" and they plague your life don't they.
Living in the Light is not like the Spanish Inquisition. leave that to Catholics and Jesuits.
Living in the Light means there has to be the supernatural Light and Presence of the Living Lord Jesus and the moving of the Holy Spirit.
When Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery
Go and sin no more....it wasn't a Spanish Inquisition "Go and sin no more or I will tear you limb from limb and hang draw and quarter you and feed you to the vultures."
There was Spirit power in His Words....more like a prophetic empowering blessing over her life.....Go...you shall sin no more.
And it is in that kind of spirit we move as gathered saints in this self building DOT EXE file that is God's Kingdom.


The picture above iis of the three fathers of the Move that was the Emsworth Church as it was called in the UK near Portsmouth. Ian McCulloch was resident at Emsworth and was the father of the work, the main pastor. R.Edward Miller and Jorge Pradas were each father of several works in Argentina and elsewhere. All three had apostolic gifting so we were, to say the least, well fed with Christ.

You can Hear Ed Miller  here

A Good Foundation

Traditionally pastors are one man affairs caring for a group who call themselves a local church. Local churches meet once or a few times weekly having some form of belief in God , right up to specific “experience type believing in being born again and being baptised in the Holy Spirit.” Much enthused the churches who were connected with Jorge Pradas and Ed Miller set up quick "greenhouses" for young people and married couples within their churches called Casa Biblica or Bible houses. Watchman Nee had previously done the same . Youth With a Mission had similar aims in their Discipleship Training Courses.
In hindsight these were all restricted learning environments which covered no more than Romans chapters 3 to 5, or the first two stages of growth in 1 John 2.
The FIRST HALF of the "young man stage" of John's letter is still the favored popular end of the gospel. We see something similar in Jesus own ministry. A lot of people forget that Jesus laid His glory aside. He WAS A NEW LINE whose Seed was directly of God, but He, like Adam was a Man, who had now been baptised in the Spirit. Beginning with one sentence under anointing in hometown of Nazareth, He was learning as He went.He could learn from no rabbi about being baptised in the Spirit, so He was learning it all Himself. But in order to take people through in the Spirit, Jesus announced further clarity of revelation in John 6 and everyone but the most committed left.
To be fair to Jorge Pradas's Bible Houses to the extent that they followed the patterns established by the thirdleveller Edward Miller, they really were to a measure places of Deliverance for all of us.
But almost universally this fact is also true.
The man in charge of Bible House.
The people running YWAM
Just about 99% of all current churches have no clue what they enter into in seeking to bring forth people in Christ.
Everyone without exception is naïve about Genesis 3 thinking at the same time that they know everything about Genesis 3. Just as no man can ever understand childbirth, nor any woman who has never been through it herself, in the same way unless you have been part of your own “bearing of the ManChild Jesus Christ” in your own body, you have not a clue of the deliverance you need from the Old Creation and your own departure from Genesis 3.
The TRUE MANCHILD DEMANDS HIS OWN FORM OF CHURCH, HIS VERY OWN WINESKIN. Church as it is now is like a flimsy cardboard model that has very little true significance in the Spirit of God.
As Paul says our works shall all be burned and that which endures shall have been tried as through fire.
I am getting very tired of people saying to Rich Novek, myself, Daniel Yordy, Annalize Mouton and many others of us here
“You are more unpopular than we are.”
“You don't have many people liking your posts.”
“When are you going to do something?”
“Why don't you preach the gospel?”
Here is the truth God speaks over us no matter how it looks to the eyes. And it is the very same message God the Father would have spoken over the tiny group of 12 and a few hangers on.
Isaiah 55 “Shout for joy, O barren one, you who have borne no child;
Break forth into joyful shouting and cry aloud, you who have not travailed;
For the sons of the desolate one will be more numerous
Than the sons of the married woman,” says the Lord.
2 “Enlarge the place of your tent;
[a]Stretch out the curtains of your dwellings, spare not;
Lengthen your cords
And strengthen your pegs.
3 “For you will spread abroad to the right and to the left.
And your [b]descendants will possess nations
And will resettle the desolate cities.
4 “Fear not, for you will not be put to shame;
And do not feel humiliated, for you will not be disgraced;
But you will forget the shame of your youth,
And the reproach of your widowhood you will remember no more.
5 “For your husband is your Maker,
Whose name is the Lord of hosts;
And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel,
Who is called the God of all the earth.
6 “For the Lord has called you,
Like a wife forsaken and grieved in spirit,
Even like a wife of one’s youth when she is rejected,”
Says your God.
7 “[c]For a brief moment I forsook you,
But with great compassion I will gather you.

 Church as it is now
 is like a flimsy cardboard model
 that has very little
 true significance in the Spirit of God.

The truth is we don't need that many people, what we need is people who have genuinely received the Seed of Jesus Christ through us or others and have become fullgrown. There is only one Jesus Christ however the outer form looks.
Anybody can preach a religion that saves them from some future hell, or even lead others into the exciting baptism of the Holy Spirit. Just these features on their own are enough to create mutlitudes of excited people who create a culture that is infectious for others to join......but none of this was actually what Jesus Christ was doing. What He was doing as we see when Peter blurted out You are the Son of God, and He came back with “Upon this Rock, this perception of God in flesh, will I build My Church.”. was teaching people to become as little children and completely relearn the whole business of life, but this time as God living His life as you in your form.
No church is doing this. And this is why we are impatient with you. You can accuse us as much as you like, but you are not doing what Jesus called us to do. The foundation you are building on is a little bit of Jesus superimposed upon the foundation of man, or the whole Genesis 3 lie.

A Woman Clothed with the Sun - Oliver Bob Lagumen

Oliver Bob Reyes Lagumen Facebook   (You can read Oliver Bob's earlier experience here)
Time check is 6:24 A.M. but at dawn today the Lord woke me up with a message. And the message is Revelation 12. He reminded me how that in my ASCENSION EXPERIENCE, i was one with the power of the Sun, I went to pray where I was laying down and finally went out of the house.
Before I went out the house, I was just meditating in my bed and he revealed to me everything that I needed to know at the time. He verified that in this experience, how that I was indeed one with the power of the Sun and the glory of the universe.
Now, this is what the Father has unveiled: Logos-consciousness has revealed to me that the book of Revelation is the book of identification. Indeed it is the book of manifestation, because it is the book of identification. The Spirit of The Word revealed to me that anyone who DO NOT WISH TO IDENTIFY himself with "THE WOMAN CLOTHED WITH THE SUN", can not be identified with THE MANCHILD ON THE THRONE!
Anyone who will not be identified with the weakness of that woman, can not be identified with her strength. Anyone who refuses her Son, the Sun of righteousness, can not be identified with the Healing in her wings, and anyone who will not embrace her as God's wife, can not be identified with the Holy City (her children).
The mind of God revealed to me that she is the MOTHER LOGOS, the soul of creation, even the mother of creation! She is your soul restored into glory. She is you. When God made man in his image after his likeness, she consulted her within himself and man came into being, in fact none in creation came out into existence without being begotten from within her womb!
I have experienced all of her wonders in my ASCENSION EXPERIENCE and behold she is coming down out of heaven from God and from the throne of Godship to INHABIT THE NEIGHBORHOOD in the glory of the Father!
So now, I am seeing myself in THE WHOLE EXPERIENCE OF REVELATION 12!
Time-check is 6:50 A.M.
Like · · Share
Betty Kline likes this.
Chris Welch Now you understand why the devil wanted to rip that little Thread of ours apart, for without this firm belief and understanding we bring forth the wind. Instead the devil like a serpent waits anxiously at the birthplace to chase after the Manchild. He waited anxiously trying to kill Moses the first Deliverer. And all those babies died.
He waited upon the birth of the True Deliverer Jesus and tried to slaughter Him too. And all those babies in Ramah made it a place of weeping. And in every country on earth he is doing his best to kill babies in abortion and reduce the population lest we ever be strong numerically and spiritually and finish the job that was lacking in the afflictions of Christ and dispatch him off the face of the earth.



Chris Welch continues
The writing that OLB has just posted is SO KEY. It is our distinctive. Maybe some of you haven't got to this point. Well we are not saying these things to be special, we are saying these things to define where the power of our believing needs to be.
You can be a Union believer, believing in the Exchanged Life at the Cross, but there is something more here. This is how St Paul expressed it, and it is the distinct message that Daniel Yordy, now Oliver Bob Reyes Lagumen , Annalize Mouton, myself, Rich Novek and many others now believe. "so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places".
Many believe the word of Paul here but they don't believe the specificity of either our exchanged life, that is Christ our only Life, nor that there could ever be a church who lived that out corporately. Revelation 12 says quite clearly it is so. She is like the SUN because such a community now has Christ Consciousness by virtue of the Cross in HER SOUL. We are nolonger like the moon "reflecting the light of the sun", we are the Son in the Earth. "As He is so are we in the Earth."
We nolonger live in separation,ln a Genesis 3 world believing we have a separate life. No such separate life ever existed....truly it was always satan's own empowering in such a masquerading daily form none of us noticed...but it affected in some way everything we felt, everything we thought, how we acted and how we spoke!!!! So not much then?LOL
But this Revelation 12 SUN is not me. Is not you. It's US. It's a New thing in the Earth. It's a woman covering/ giving birth to a MANCHILD. This dual REALITY is the CHURCH in the earth.
Now some LOCAL PRACTICS.....that need to be spoken.
IN 1976 in a cowshed in the Dales, outside Harrogate a people specified before God that they were this MARY....THIS SUN...THIS WOMAN...and solemnly before God and the particular called apostle of God, Ern Baxter....that we may, like Mary not understand it, but we said yes to the Holy Spirit....BE IT UNTO ME ACCORDING TO YOUR WORD. And on that pure foundation many hundreds of fellowships and churches spawned. LOCALLY....we have two such churches.
The Apostle Jorge Pradas spoke the same "specificity" over a charismatic prayer meeting and said...What are you? A Fellowship or the Church of the Living God.
A fellowship can mean anything. Take it or leave it. You can be adulterous. In, out, like some kind of bigamous marriage....OR you can be the CHURCH of the Living God. The sad thing about Emsworth Church is they NEVER had defined teaching on WHO THEY WERE as individuals. And eventually, a bit like the church of Galatians they became more and more nebulous in the specificity of their believing, and then renamed themselves NEW LIFE CHRISTIAN CHURCH, but not necessarily continuing in their inner believing as to what their identity was.
I then attended Havant Church for 12 years, but they too would not be pegged down according to who the Bible says they are.
Without BOTH specificities of believing Revelation CANNOT OCCUR. We give birth to the wind. Our sons and daughters leave. Like Israel we become just an empty shell, infrastructure and a name, but not having the POWER TO BRING FORTH.
Here is the magic that St Paul found.
A People who believe in their new identity in Christ.
A People who believe in their NEW IDENTITY...not as a human club...But the Revelation 12 Vison of the Church....the new thing...the woman covering a man or manchild....HAS the ability within Herself to bring Jesus forth. However i looks to the natural eyes. Jesus being born out the backside of a very busy inn, in a stable, in a cow trough didn't look any more promising than today's church of active believing saints....being born here and now on Facebook of all places and many other weird places on earth. (One such recent birthplace was a mafia style controller of pimps and prostitutes in Reykjavik Iceland suddenly waking for nights afraid for his own soul and then a church formed round him).....
The other things aren't really churches....they may even be baptised in the Spirit...but they are not believing what the Bible says about them, nor believing what the Bible is saying about how a true church functions....so they reap the wind. They may sell Cds, Conferences, may have healings like Aladdin rubbing their lamps, but they don't have SUN consciousness, they still have moon separation consciousness, and anyone living with them can see it. So they reap the wind. Their children leave them "for other nations".

Our mind, when not in subjection, is like a mass of briars

Alan Hiu Facebook
Yesterday via Mobile
Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace
(Hebrews 13:9a)

This very day I was recalling  Norita Roberts saying "Estas todo en la mente Chris". (all in the mind)Now I have no idea if she crossed any lines...she once apologised to me. Either way God was dismantling stuff.

I don't know if any of you can imagine what it is like being raised by two physics teachers, (who had the dubious/wonderful privilege of trying to teach Kofi Annan.) And then after this at 13 to change direction utterly and enter into an incredible experience of the Fire of God. But in Casa Biblica the struggle was on, and time and time again I felt pretty near mental breakdown as I was taken to the very limits of all understanding of all I had considered foundational being brought up in the UK. Jorge Pradas called it crossing the line of Spirit. Paul or someone called it "the heart established by grace."

So this was today's thoughts : people who are still totally bound up in their leftbrains are like briars with barbs on that get caught up and stuck all over the place. You see the doctrines may be wrong or right...they actually aren't the problem...when we declare our Leftbrain as LORD inwardly, then we can scarce move anywhere, through doorframes, into fresh environments, without our barbs being caught in curtains, against narrow doorframes, up against others...or even worse still...other people still caught in their leftbrain briars too. We're picky. Clunky. Often with very little love. Lots of frustration. Very little flow in the things we do, in the grace in which we move.If people try to teach us new things, we're so full of barbs, each new thing gets caught up and snags as it tries to enter us. 

UNDERSTAND THIS and life will be a lot easier. We don't have to understand everything. The Universe will not cave in if we don't!!!

We can relax and know...it's our heart, it's our heart out of which flow the issues of Life.
We can really really trust the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and don't rely on your insight
In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make straight your paths
Be not wise in your own eyes....fear the Lord...turn from evil.....

Because I was so so leftbrain I am probably oversensitive to this whole area like an ex-smoker is to smoking, or a converted prostitute is to young people's clothing....

I literally count the seconds between crossing someone's overdependency on the part of the brain that is really a "butler"....there to serve....NOT to usurp the place of the owner of the house....our spirits fused in union with Christ...

It happened with a man today we met on a walk in the countryside...
It's usually less than 10 seconds, and they will "hear" you saying...

Destroy the leftbrain
Put it in the dustbin

Never think again
forget all your learning
forget all intellectuality
be like Pol Pot and kill all those who dare be classed as intellectuals

And they will flash back at you....it's good to use both sides of the brain
or....I could never take a Christianity where you are not allowed to think...

I NEVER SAID ANY OF THOSE PHRASES

but what a wonderful example of how the devil is in the leftbrain
just as he is in the unredeemed rightbrain
but in the UK and developed societies this is how the devil hooks everyone into pyramid orders
for finance
education
war
politics
and it's all strung together seamlessly in a hopeless dangerous machine that is unstoppable, even as in 2003 when thousands were out on the streets of the UK protesting, but we still were forced to pay a war machine to kill and maim.
The LEFTBRAIN command chain must be observed. (You will OBEY...said in a Dalek voice).

 Yet there is a place, established in our hearts by grace....that like smooth "Three in one" oil   (LOL) makes all this sticky stuff, this awkward picky attitude stuff, just melt into a life of flow.

Whenever you address a spirit with truth, it will always create some straw man argument then burn it down in front of you....and if you are not wise and familiar with this, you will have egg on your face, as though you said something wrong.

BUT ALL YOU SAID WAS....Leftbrain or rightbrain...(and using both is how healthy people live)....ALL MUST BE IN CHRIST...and our BELIEVING and RULE OF LIFE must be the heart...because it is from the heart that FLOW the wellsprings of life...the direction of life....

IN THIS VERY DAY the CHURCH IS CROSSING OVER, as JORGE PRADAS described...CROSSING THE LINE OF SPIRIT.


IT HAS BEEN INTIMATED AND WARNED OF FOR DECADES, AND WE HAVE PRACTICED THIS WAY AS THE HOLY SPIRIT TAUGHT US THE WAYS OF PRAISE,WORSHIP AND ADORATION....Many have taken this as mere suggestion, but like the Israelites on the day it was announced they were crossing over into the Land....they suddenly realised for sure GOD wasn't playing games.  And even so today, God will have a people worshipping in Spirit and in Truth....and yes some part of that is the understanding, but the Preeminence will be SPIRIT sensitivity, moving in the Precious Holy Spirit. Not as before in the charismatic realm, in some ugly mixture of flesh and human tradition, but now pure as a bell as people have learned to "train their senses according to righteousness."
=======================
Tuesday 7th Oct (the following day)Just feeling to further expound that verse:
Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace

Part of the reason for this intensity to attach to all manner of ideas and streams of doctrine as they flow past....the intense latching onto what is new...the phrase....itching ears
but then the telling phrase....without ever coming to a knowledge of the Truth.

It is the ENTRANCE  of the Word that gives Light
Meditation is a tool...meditating on that Word
Another key like it is ABIDING. If we ABIDE...stay with it...stick at it...the Word....then we are truly His disciples and we shall know the Truth and the truth shall set us free.

So part of this reason for this intensity is  the MEDICATION isn't taking. Before it's had time to really benefit us, we are discarding the course of treatment and off to find something else that will be the panacea.

LEFTBRAIN DOCTRINES are not panacea.
The Word eaten and properly digested is the panacea.
We think if we have comprehension of something, we know it spiritually.
We can only really impart that which we know inwardly. And this is called having a heart established by grace. Not works. His workings in us.

So as I said above...it's not even whether the doctrines themselves are good or bad. Even if they are good ones, until we are established in that Word in our hearts, they won't really be up and running however good the doctrine
.PSALM 1Happy are those
    who reject the advice of evil people,
    who do not follow the example of sinners
    or join those who have no use for God.
² Instead, they find joy in obeying the Law of the Lord,
    and they study it day and night.
³ They are like trees that grow beside a stream,
    that bear fruit at the right time,
    and whose leaves do not dry up.
They succeed in everything they do.

Goodbye Elitest Bride Rubbish

 by Chris Welch,Facebook note on Friday, 20 January 2012 at 23:19

Pieter Wessels: What is the difference between the sons of god and the bride of christ, cos there is i'm sure? 23 minutes ago ·
  Chris Welch: The way Daniel Yordy and I would talk about the Bride would be like this....and we have a reason to talk this way. You see if in the 70s and 80s you were in a set of related churches to Ed Miller, or to Sam Fife...or maybe to an extent to Jorge Pradas who learned a lot from Ed...you would talk in terms of this special breed called the Bride. The problem with it is a kind of flesh elitism.

Anything we get hold of we have to get in the Spirit. If there is even a smidgen of double eye seeing (ie not the single eye Jesus is on about) we end up preaching some form of Jesus PLUS, which is works.
Or in Galations it is referred to as bewitching.

So how do we address the scriptures? Well the heart of God is a wide open embrace. It is grace. But what Daniel and I would say is that the growth of Jesus within us is a 3 stage affair as in 1 John 2:12 ff and the description we have in Revelation 12 is just a reworking of the three growth stages towards a mature man.

You see the Bride is that MANIFEST WOMAN in the earth, the Counterpart of Jesus, the first example of what this new breed "the Son of man " looks like. (He is the firstborn of many brethren...and He is not ashamed to call us brethren.) So lets look at the revelation verse "and they overcame Him through the Blood,by the Word of their testimony and by loving their lives not unto death.

The Child stage is an appreciation of the total grace of Christ through this shed Blood. The next stage is proclaiming the Word about all Jesus says about us in the new creation, until we are so settled in our believing we launch forth into the Father stage of our commissioning on earth.This is costly, but because we now KNOW who we are, we are prepared to enter into costly "laying our life down...if necessary unto death...in many diverse ways to see our commissions come to pass."

Such a people who actually do this stuff are MANIFESTING the FULL BRIDAL Life that Jesus put inside us. About 50 years ago people talked in terms of Wurmbrand ,Nee, Corrie Ten Boom and all these types as special. But this was poppycock. They were just believers who worked with the seed Jesus had given them, since His divine seed it says in Peter,has all the divine power and grace necessary to bring this Life forth in us.

And knowing all this stuff deep in our Spirit keeps us right out of that elitest crap that Daniel and and  I suffered for nearly 20 years. We KNOW of which we speak, and we know the updates the Holy Spirit has spoken so we never have churches like that again!!!

Cliff Gableman, Cindi Estep, Kobus Hattingh and 6 others like this.

• 

  Rich Novek

  Yes! Event centered believers who are still looking for an earthly king to follow, the same ones who forsake the (foolish) message of the cross for temporal gain, comfort, and ease!
  
  Out with the old paradigm of a hierarchy set up much like...See more

  20 January at 23:43 · · 7
• 

  Cathy Rheeder Thank u chris & rich. Excellent.

  21 January at 10:07 · · 2
• 

  Barbara Hughes Hmmm, interesting!! :)

  21 January at 14:44 · · 2
• 

  Cliff Gableman Somehow when we move beyond the feet the rest of the body becomes distorted.

  21 January at 15:06 · · 3
• 

  Rich Novek http://www.richinchristnow.com/gods-true-hierarchy

  

  God’s True Hierarchy! « Rich "IN" Christ!

  www.richinchristnow.com

  Take a Pyramid turn it upside down, the Pastor being the Servant of all, the lea...See more

  21 January at 18:46 · · 1 ·
• 

  Cindi Estep No "pecking order" in Christ....

  4 hours ago · · 1
• 

  Chris Welch In fact...not much pecking at all!

  2 hours ago · · 1