Some of the Adventures since 1972

 

Chris Welch tuning for a Theatrical Recording at Chichester Festival Theatre

I'm not saying this in the flesh to try to impress you . Just to encourage you that this stuff works.
1972 Jesus Move and revival in my school. Head boy even converted.
1973 Graham Pulkingham and the Fisherfolk hold one of the only school evangelism weeks they ever did in our little Grammar school
1973 1973-5 Housechurch Move London culminating in Albert Hall
1974 was around for when Basilea Schlink turned Chairman Mao back from swooping with his army on Europe . Next thing Kissinger is having tea with Mao and Nixon They put things off until now
1976 -8 the Major Bible weeks with angelic goings on reported in the Press
1977 Plonked in West Germany in just about the only town having a revival in a theological Catholic seminary of all places. Skipping down Paderborn High Street with a newly converted nun Julie Andrews style
!977-8 saw some goings on in our halls of residence in Exeter University
1978 Plonked in Northern France with a family commissioned by Oral Roberts to form a Ville de refuge /city of refuge there
Nov 1978 Plonked in Emsworth church community the very week that Jim Jones massacre occurred. My Mum went berserk with worry. Emsworth was in fact where some amazing apostles were based or were passing through. Just about the only people on the planet in those days with a Biblical Vision of Church as Jesus describes it Himself in Revelation 12. Including the guy that triggered the national Argentina revival in Peron's years.
1985 Helped be a part of establishing a French Church in Paris.
1978-87 Crashed through a version of Romans 7, and was brought through into the start of the thirdlevel , before anybody seemed to know what it was.
1988 Crashed into a group that new what the thirdlevel was, and taught it. They had learned off Norman Grubb who'd spent 60 years seeking God how to articulate it.
1988-84 various intercessions including that God would raise up Christian media in Britain after the House of Lords shut down UCB's main AM station given by Moscow to them when USSR fell. 1984 God brought Wendy and Rory Alec of God Channel to my little house. 6 months before they even knew they were doing God Channel.
2002-12 Began the tricky task of teaching thirdlevel stuff to secondlevel churches and started learning some of their evasive tactics.
2008 Began the first thirdlevel blog to incorporate both the Galatian 2.20 teachings and the teachings about Shekinah anointing....because they BOTH are sombined in the Holiest place Church as we see in Acts 2 but everybody in the world has forgotten
2009 came on Facebook and part of a Move on here that's been a bit like Adullam's Cave ready for this nutty Lockdown period when whole churches have all gone on the internet after laughing at us for years. In 1973-5 all the housechurches saw us transition from firstlevel churches to secondlevel churches, via travelling all the way to Billy Richards Slough, or Emsworth, or South Chard, to meeting in front rooms to fullfledged churches in hired halls then buying places.
 The thirdlevel church is about to roll out in the same way right across the church. All the Bible churches had guys who understood the 1 John 1 and 1 John 2 protocols. Nobody today has a clue anywhere and still builds pyramid ministries around their own names and titels because they dont yet know how real Jesus is. Luckily we are about to learn. The sharper ones will notice I missed Toronto , Pensacola, and Brownsville. But I did watch Lakeland Florida, and our church members went. so basically if God says something , you can take it to the Bank.

How God tests Saul, even softened ones

Many people may find this form of test hard to take. It was put in the Bible for us to learn some of the subtleties of flesh and spirit.  This is the relationship of Samuel with Saul and concerns only seven days between chapter 10 and 13. Now Saul reigned 42 years ( *1 Sam13.1) but it was all over in virtually 7 days in terms of anointing and choosing. That should pierce us to the heart.
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1 Samuel 10:8 And you shall go down before me to Gilgal; and behold, I will come down to you to offer burnt offerings and sacrifice peace offerings. You shall wait seven days until I come to you and show you what you should do.”
1 Samuel 11.14 -15 Then Samuel said to the people, “Come and let us go to Gilgal and renew the kingdom there.” 15 So all the people went to Gilgal, and there they made Saul king before the Lord in Gilgal. There they also offered sacrifices of peace offerings before the Lord; and there Saul and all the men of Israel rejoiced greatly.
1 Samuel 13:5 Now the Philistines assembled to fight with Israel, 30,000 chariots and 6,000 horsemen, and people like the sand which is on the seashore in abundance; and they came up and camped in Michmash, east of Beth-aven. 6 When the men of Israel saw that they were in a strait (for the people were hard-pressed), then the people hid themselves in caves, in thickets, in cliffs, in cellars, and in pits. 7 Also some of the Hebrews crossed the Jordan into the land of Gad and Gilead. But as for Saul, he was still in Gilgal, and all the people followed him trembling.

8 Now he waited seven days, according to the appointed time set by Samuel, but Samuel did not come to Gilgal; and the people were scattering from him. 9 So Saul said, “Bring to me the burnt offering and the peace offerings.” And he offered the burnt offering. 10 As soon as he finished offering the burnt offering, behold, Samuel came; and Saul went out to meet him and to [e]greet him. 11 But Samuel said, “What have you done?” And Saul said, “Because I saw that the people were scattering from me, and that you did not come within the appointed days, and that the Philistines were assembling at Michmash, 12 therefore I said, ‘Now the Philistines will come down against me at Gilgal, and I have not asked the favor of the Lord.’ So I forced myself and offered the burnt offering.” 13 Samuel said to Saul, “You have acted foolishly; you have not kept the commandment of the Lord your God, which He commanded you, for now the Lord would have established your kingdom [f]over Israel forever. 14 But now your kingdom shall not endure. The Lord has sought out for Himself a man after His own heart, and the Lord has appointed him as ruler over His people, because you have not kept what the Lord commanded you.”

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Here's what happened in Havant Church with Peter Stott. Around 1995 he had cancer of the bowel. He was close to death. God raised him but during that time, which was also Toronto.....God brought Peter into a whole new realm of intimacy. Peter then began seeing that his ministry style had to change from pastor pyramid to a much more Spirit led format. He softened the structure and appointed others to have far more hands on control in things but also training them in sensitivity in meetings. There was another strong wave of anointing. Around this time Graham Cooke who was still moving with Peter in the UK in prophets conferences came to the church before I was there and just spoke this sentence...... Moses my servant is dead. The Spirit swept through the meeting and everyone laughed in a Toronto kind of way. Right at that moment it was like the start of the Spirits work to sweep away lawbased Christianity and with it the rigid pyramid architecture. Now prophets are anointed to do stuff like this by saying one sentence. Even at the time you would be hard pressed to articulate what was going on because the Spirit is doing it all and at a simple surface level it just looks like people laughing. But this is how God's real stuff works. He operates way above the understanding of human wisdom. So this marked a major shake up in the church. I was like a test for them. Bringing me in in 2000 God even prepared the way for them by telling them somebody would come from London. I did come.from London but via Emsworth.....so this was a similar thing to those who expected the Messiah from out of Egypt. Jesus did come.from out of Egypt. Now I wasn't a messiah but I did have a thirdlevel anointing to begin sharing the thirdlevel. I never had the full Jesus treatment that I did in Emsworth where they physically carted me away in 1988.......this was already after the Toronto wave.....so they were that much further in the Spirit. But still, somewhat scaled.down, I had the same treatment I received at Emsworth. In a brethren based church they operate from the scripture about first one person, then several people then as a church you are disciplined. So I had to meet with Peter and the elders in a backroom midweek meeting with them to be told that I could no longer speak publicly. This was around 4 years ago. For disciplines sake I went there for a few months and did just that but after prophecy was not even being heard....( strangely they allowed this.....Perhaps because one of my words named the church in the Spirit as the turn around church) I was encouraged by others on here to leave. So I am telling you this anecdote to explain that God is not messing with our generation. When He speaks by the Spirit to us in how He runs His church as he did direct with Peter during his time with bowel cancer.......He then follows through with tests to see if we will recognise someone moving in humility. Because this new order of leadership isn't like Saul......it is a David leadership from a psalm 51 heart.
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A similar sort of thing is happening in all our relationships.   Can we walk together in Light or do we force ourselves.

Even more bizarre is when two prophetic types get together over tea and biscuits in 1 Kings 13   (Both Peter and I by the way are prophetic types. )

What are new wineskins?

We have never really been able to articulate but it is something like this, and I will use Havant Church and myself just to be specific.
Havant has a "young" pastor that actually isn't that young, but he was converted when the church formed under Peter Stott around 1980. Basically a whole group moved across to Havant church or Portsdown Community church from Leigh Park Baptist church. If you had to scrutinise what the "differences" were from the Baptist Church they would revolve around the open preaching of baptism in the Spirit, and learning to freely follow the Holy Spirit in meetings. Emsworth was much the same. Much spiritual input has come into Havant and over the years many have grown a lot. Peter felt to set apart a man called John Wilbraham and certainly as regards virtually all other churches on earth, John would be considered a good faithful pastor. Until Steve McVey, Darin Hufford, or Paul Anderson-Walsh enter.
Basically all John was doing 4 years ago or so, was reading out injunctions from the New Testament in the manner of a Law Book and calling that preaching.
I addressed him strongly on it....(in the sort of way Paul addressed St Peter) and told him we are not called to run behaviour modification classes, we are called to preach the gospel. A leader's meeting was called.....always way out of the way of the flock, and at a time when I was still having to move my work bookings around to make way for these people supported by the tithe and there all of them agreed I should not say another word in a public meeting. I hung around for several months for the sake of personal discipline, then felt clearly that even prophecies were not being heard and left to minister more on Facebook and blogs.
Now this , as you can see on my blog is among the best churches available today in the UK, but still rooted in Law and Old Covenant believing....yet, yet....with a much greater maturity when it comes to flowing in the Spirit.
They represent much of what is wrong and right with the charismatic move in Britain and the States. The leaders in our churches are mostly secondlevellers preaching to others that have been in that immature way of "seeing" that St Paul upbraids in his letters and Hebrews 6( if it is his.) for a period of simply decades.

The REAL RAW PRESENCE OF GOD  is in the Pillar of Fire and the Cloud, that sits in the midst of 12 GATES,12 TRIBES, 12 Disciples.....BANG in the MIDDLE of the cross tensioning running between all simultaneously.....(Think of how a suspension bridge stands).....
New wineskins are the people of God leaving unflexible wineskins to receive the fresh fullorbed LIVING WINE of God's pure Word again. These verses apply.
Hosea 2:14-15 14"Therefore, behold, I will allure her, Bring her into the wilderness And speak kindly to her. 15"Then I will give her her vineyards from there, And the valley of Achor as a door of hope. And she will sing there as in the days of her youth,
Hebrews 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate. 13 So, let us go out to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach. 14 For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come.

The previous Move of God will always have a tendency to settle around the particular Gates of Jerusalem that have been revealed to them. (40 years ago Gerald Coates himself ministered on it under the message title "Pioneers and Settlers".)

These settlers  reduce their revelation down   to mere leftbrain concepts, and this Person of the Living God gets sidelined.The REAL RAW PRESENCE OF GOD  is in the Pillar of Fire and the Cloud, that sits in the midst of 12 GATES,12 TRIBES, 12 Disciples.....BANG in the MIDDLE of the cross tensioning running between all simultaneously.....(Think of how a suspension bridge stands).....
There is no cross tensioning or Living Presence in denominations generally, or the older network churches....and the way to tell is to look out for children moving in the spirit along side all other age groups.
The word for " God has departed" is ICHABOD. So until we have learned to keep the KINGDOM 12 sided Satellite dish firmly in our centre we will continually have need for new wineskins. Facebook Post 10/5/15

A Woman Clothed with the Sun - Oliver Bob Lagumen

Oliver Bob Reyes Lagumen Facebook   (You can read Oliver Bob's earlier experience here)
Time check is 6:24 A.M. but at dawn today the Lord woke me up with a message. And the message is Revelation 12. He reminded me how that in my ASCENSION EXPERIENCE, i was one with the power of the Sun, I went to pray where I was laying down and finally went out of the house.
Before I went out the house, I was just meditating in my bed and he revealed to me everything that I needed to know at the time. He verified that in this experience, how that I was indeed one with the power of the Sun and the glory of the universe.
Now, this is what the Father has unveiled: Logos-consciousness has revealed to me that the book of Revelation is the book of identification. Indeed it is the book of manifestation, because it is the book of identification. The Spirit of The Word revealed to me that anyone who DO NOT WISH TO IDENTIFY himself with "THE WOMAN CLOTHED WITH THE SUN", can not be identified with THE MANCHILD ON THE THRONE!
Anyone who will not be identified with the weakness of that woman, can not be identified with her strength. Anyone who refuses her Son, the Sun of righteousness, can not be identified with the Healing in her wings, and anyone who will not embrace her as God's wife, can not be identified with the Holy City (her children).
The mind of God revealed to me that she is the MOTHER LOGOS, the soul of creation, even the mother of creation! She is your soul restored into glory. She is you. When God made man in his image after his likeness, she consulted her within himself and man came into being, in fact none in creation came out into existence without being begotten from within her womb!
I have experienced all of her wonders in my ASCENSION EXPERIENCE and behold she is coming down out of heaven from God and from the throne of Godship to INHABIT THE NEIGHBORHOOD in the glory of the Father!
So now, I am seeing myself in THE WHOLE EXPERIENCE OF REVELATION 12!
Time-check is 6:50 A.M.
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Betty Kline likes this.
Chris Welch Now you understand why the devil wanted to rip that little Thread of ours apart, for without this firm belief and understanding we bring forth the wind. Instead the devil like a serpent waits anxiously at the birthplace to chase after the Manchild. He waited anxiously trying to kill Moses the first Deliverer. And all those babies died.
He waited upon the birth of the True Deliverer Jesus and tried to slaughter Him too. And all those babies in Ramah made it a place of weeping. And in every country on earth he is doing his best to kill babies in abortion and reduce the population lest we ever be strong numerically and spiritually and finish the job that was lacking in the afflictions of Christ and dispatch him off the face of the earth.



Chris Welch continues
The writing that OLB has just posted is SO KEY. It is our distinctive. Maybe some of you haven't got to this point. Well we are not saying these things to be special, we are saying these things to define where the power of our believing needs to be.
You can be a Union believer, believing in the Exchanged Life at the Cross, but there is something more here. This is how St Paul expressed it, and it is the distinct message that Daniel Yordy, now Oliver Bob Reyes Lagumen , Annalize Mouton, myself, Rich Novek and many others now believe. "so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places".
Many believe the word of Paul here but they don't believe the specificity of either our exchanged life, that is Christ our only Life, nor that there could ever be a church who lived that out corporately. Revelation 12 says quite clearly it is so. She is like the SUN because such a community now has Christ Consciousness by virtue of the Cross in HER SOUL. We are nolonger like the moon "reflecting the light of the sun", we are the Son in the Earth. "As He is so are we in the Earth."
We nolonger live in separation,ln a Genesis 3 world believing we have a separate life. No such separate life ever existed....truly it was always satan's own empowering in such a masquerading daily form none of us noticed...but it affected in some way everything we felt, everything we thought, how we acted and how we spoke!!!! So not much then?LOL
But this Revelation 12 SUN is not me. Is not you. It's US. It's a New thing in the Earth. It's a woman covering/ giving birth to a MANCHILD. This dual REALITY is the CHURCH in the earth.
Now some LOCAL PRACTICS.....that need to be spoken.
IN 1976 in a cowshed in the Dales, outside Harrogate a people specified before God that they were this MARY....THIS SUN...THIS WOMAN...and solemnly before God and the particular called apostle of God, Ern Baxter....that we may, like Mary not understand it, but we said yes to the Holy Spirit....BE IT UNTO ME ACCORDING TO YOUR WORD. And on that pure foundation many hundreds of fellowships and churches spawned. LOCALLY....we have two such churches.
The Apostle Jorge Pradas spoke the same "specificity" over a charismatic prayer meeting and said...What are you? A Fellowship or the Church of the Living God.
A fellowship can mean anything. Take it or leave it. You can be adulterous. In, out, like some kind of bigamous marriage....OR you can be the CHURCH of the Living God. The sad thing about Emsworth Church is they NEVER had defined teaching on WHO THEY WERE as individuals. And eventually, a bit like the church of Galatians they became more and more nebulous in the specificity of their believing, and then renamed themselves NEW LIFE CHRISTIAN CHURCH, but not necessarily continuing in their inner believing as to what their identity was.
I then attended Havant Church for 12 years, but they too would not be pegged down according to who the Bible says they are.
Without BOTH specificities of believing Revelation CANNOT OCCUR. We give birth to the wind. Our sons and daughters leave. Like Israel we become just an empty shell, infrastructure and a name, but not having the POWER TO BRING FORTH.
Here is the magic that St Paul found.
A People who believe in their new identity in Christ.
A People who believe in their NEW IDENTITY...not as a human club...But the Revelation 12 Vison of the Church....the new thing...the woman covering a man or manchild....HAS the ability within Herself to bring Jesus forth. However i looks to the natural eyes. Jesus being born out the backside of a very busy inn, in a stable, in a cow trough didn't look any more promising than today's church of active believing saints....being born here and now on Facebook of all places and many other weird places on earth. (One such recent birthplace was a mafia style controller of pimps and prostitutes in Reykjavik Iceland suddenly waking for nights afraid for his own soul and then a church formed round him).....
The other things aren't really churches....they may even be baptised in the Spirit...but they are not believing what the Bible says about them, nor believing what the Bible is saying about how a true church functions....so they reap the wind. They may sell Cds, Conferences, may have healings like Aladdin rubbing their lamps, but they don't have SUN consciousness, they still have moon separation consciousness, and anyone living with them can see it. So they reap the wind. Their children leave them "for other nations".

The TONGUE and the WORD II - THE BREAKTHROUGH SPIRIT

This article funnily enough doesn't mention the tongue and the Word...but it is about the spirit that you will need to continue further in this series.

related post:Tunnel breakthrough From Both Ends

GOD OF THE BREAKTHROUGH

The Breakthrough Spirit
At the moment we seem quite meandery with Galatians 2;20, nevertheless many by now have experienced men and women being a literal avatar for God on earth. Some of the key messages we ever heard will be like that. But not only IN MEETINGS...suddenly outside someone will turn, say or do something that is just pure God. If we at that moment say "Blessed are you who come in the Name of the Lord" our whole life will be different. It is a brief PORTAL in time through a KINGDOM DOOR. Quite often they are meetings and possibly ones where everything tried to conspire against us getting there. But quite often, as I say quite unexpected daily God encounter types....and quite often the people are not even Christians...but are simply being natural GODDERS in that moment.
The Israelites MISSED Joshua and Caleb's realistic but faith filled report and listened to the other 10. They MISSED God. Every single one died before the next generation entered the Land.
Perez Uzzah  is a negative breakthrough moment 2 Samuel 6:6-8 It was when Uzzah put his hand on the Ark of God because they were using a jumped up wheel barrow instead of the heavenly blueprint for priests.
We DO want breakthrough though. The Kingdom is established on earth by breakthroughs of God on fleshlife, on demons, on sicknesses, on crazyloop situations that bind us....usually LAWS that have suddenly GONE CIRCULAR on us and we are imprisoned by them. Satan means resister (of God) and he's an expert. Every meeting should be a gathering in the Name of Jesus under an Open heaven. Quite often when an apostolic person with a " door opening type of gift" to the Body of Christ passes through a whole load of hitherto stupid situations immediately unlock.
Chains of house sales. Planning permissions.Sicknesses and diseases.Family squabbles or worse cease. We once had a couple remarry after 20 years divorce and they both got baptised in Emsworth seawater here.
Jesus once said..".from the time of John the Baptist until now the Kingdom of God suffers violence  and the violent take it by force" 


Jesus once said..".from the time of John the Baptist until now the Kingdom of God suffers violence  and the violent take it by force"  Spirit determination.. An attitude which takes the bull by the horns and determines...THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
Here's are some natural and Bible examples of breakthrough moments.
When you were conceived your father's male sperm was the only one out of thousands to break through the surface of the mother's egg. You are a natural victor. A breakthrough merchant!!!!
When you were born that breakthrough event was quite bloody and messy.
If a woman is a virgin the first act of lovemaking may involve a trace of breakthrough!!!
Problems have their breakthrough moments.  Or their AHA moments....sudden breakthrough ideas.
Getting married is a bit of a dance. It's a lifetime commitment as opposed to suck it and see....so both individuals are eyeing the other one closely, and quite often the lady is being stand offish. How much do you want me dear?  The engagement can be quite a breakthrough moment!!!!
There's several characters in the Bible that LEGALLY....as in God's promises....SHOULD NEVER BE WHERE THEY WERE!!!! And they are there because they had this BREAKTHROUGH FEISTY SPIRIT.

they, like the disciples of old block half the world from ever knowing Jesus.

Rahab.....a prostitute...but courageously risked her own life with the Jericho spies.She was literally saved by her faith.
Abigail totally ignored her husband who was a pretty useless good for nothing, and pressed on regardless to help David and his men. No wonder she caught his eye and when her husband died David took her in marriage.
Ruth was a Moabitess and as such in theory BANNED from Israel for at least 10 generations. But she had a fixed heart towards Naomi....."Where you go I will go".   Charismatic churches would have called her rebellious because she was breaking the laws.
That's one of the reasons thirdlevellers don't pay the slightest bit of attention to secondlevellers....they, like the disciples of old block half the world from ever knowing Jesus. God looks to the hearts!!!!
The Canaanite woman's HEART was TOO BUSTING WITH FAITH for God to ignore her. Blow being a Canaanite if I just touch the hem of His garment!!!! Surely the dogs under the table can get little scraps!!!!  WOW...that just BLEW Jesus out of the water!!!!   That's what I came to earth for!!!!! thought Jesus with His eyes welling up.
If we want Jesus we will be like Elaine Waterfield and ignore all British protocols. We will gather because we cannot keep apart.
This very morning Havant Church have allowed people to hold gatherings on certain days so people may feel free to go to each other's houses. Now humanly that's quite a good idea because it resists the tendency of English people to stay in their own English castles.  But a few months ago I sent an email to all the Hayling Island People inviting us all to gather together informally just to be together....more or less the same thing.
BUT Nothing would happen because of all the secondlevel obstacles...
it wasn't official,
it was coming from my heart,
it wasn't sanctioned by leadership,
and I had frightened people off with some of my attitudes and teachings (which are ofcourse just Spirit things to do with BREAKTHROUGH...to do with Christ living our life according to Galatians 2:20...NOTHING DIFFERENT from what you poor Facebook people have been putting up with for years.)

Now as a result of this morning's meeting that I wasn't at, people will be holding gatherings in people's houses....but it won't be like Elaine who bursts through regardless...it won't be people like me who at 16 dive across the continent because I have this hunch that Basilea Schlink has something for me that Gerald Coates or Bryn Jones didn't quite have yet....

When you were conceived your father's male sperm was the only one out of thousands to break through the surface of the mother's egg. You are a natural victor. A breakthrough merchant!!!!

There are PORTALS...TIMED EVENTS...we look for them....we go through them...we ignore what others think....This is God and ME.....God is like that with everyone...He is JEALOUS over all of us.....First thing is the relationship God has with me and I with Him....Network covering smothering apostles can wait outside on the toilet....this is me meeting with God....and others BREAKING THROUGH because they are really desperate for God. Havant Church wouldn't know desperate unless the two leaders John and Wendy Wilbraham wrote a guiding manual....
1. First place your nose upon the floor and cry out loud at precisely 68.5 decibells
for a total of 22 and a half minutes, then increase by 30 seconds daily.

The Word of God truly upon Havant Church is to be a "Turn round Church". Possibly the first truly thirdlevel church in the world. But as you can see from my description we are talking miracle of God here.....at the moment they all have to be told it's OK to enter each other's houses. All this passivity could be related to fluoride in the water killing their pineal glands, so if any continentals would like to send over some of their non fluoridated water, we could yet have revival!!!!
Network covering smothering apostles can wait outside on the toilet....this is me meeting with God

Saints we are in an era of turnaround . The biggest one in history as people start to get revelation on Genesis 3 and the whole RIPOFF....
Already a huge miracle has taken place around 1993 that is just about a first, certainly while I have known the Lord.
A whole cult.....the Plain Truth Cult under Armstrong has turned to the Lord and accepted evangelical truth. Wow. Wow. Usually it's just ones and twos or localised revivals. What an extraordinary thing to happen in our days? This proves that MASS TURNAROUND even scattered across nations is possible!!!!

 Even some of the core ruling dynasties on earth, members of the thousands of year old Satanic dynasty bloodlines are finding the Lord.  Eric Clapton's "Layla" was about one of them.
God is on the move and He is more powerful even than sleepy old bedridden Havant!!!!

Symbiosis and Codependency : Think Church pyramids/Work/Family/Freemasonry or NOT

Symbiosis and symbiotic

Free online Dictionary

sym·bi·o·sis  (smb-ss, -b-)

n. pl. sym·bi·o·ses (-sz)

1. Biology A close, prolonged association between two or more different organisms of different species that may, but does not necessarily, benefit each member.

2. A relationship of mutual benefit or dependence.

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[Greek sumbisis, companionship, from sumbioun, to live together, from sumbios, living together : sun-, syn- + bios, life; see g^wei- in Indo-European roots.]

Wikipedia

Symbiosis (from Ancient Greek σύν "together" and βίωσις "living")^[1] is close and often long-term interaction between two or more different biological species. In 1877, Bennett used the word symbiosis (which previously had been used to depict people living together in community) to describe the mutualistic relationship in lichens.^[2] In 1879, the German mycologist Heinrich Anton de Bary defined it as "the living together of unlike organisms."^[3][4]
The definition of symbiosis is controversial among scientists. Some believe symbiosis should only refer to persistent mutualisms, while others believe it should apply to any types of persistent biological interactions (i.e. mutualistic, commensalistic, or parasitic).^[5]
Some symbiotic relationships are obligate, meaning that both symbionts entirely depend on each other for survival. For example, many lichens consist of fungal and photosynthetic symbionts that cannot live on their own.^[3][6][7][8] Others are facultative, meaning that they can, but do not have to live with the other organism.
Symbiotic relationships include those associations in which one organism lives on another (ectosymbiosis, such as mistletoe), or where one partner lives inside the other (endosymbiosis, such as lactobacilli and other bacteria in humans or Symbiodinium in corals).^[9][10] Symbiosis is also classified by physical attachment of the organisms; symbiosis in which the organisms have bodily union is called conjunctive symbiosis, and symbiosis in which they are not in union is called disjunctive symbiosis.^[11]

Codependency

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Codependency is defined as a psychological condition or a relationship in which a person is controlled or manipulated by another who is affected with a pathological condition (typically narcissism or drug addiction); and in broader terms, it refers to the dependence on the needs of, or control of, another.^[1] It also often involves placing a lower priority on one's own needs, while being excessively preoccupied with the needs of others.^[2] Codependency can occur in any type of relationship, including family, work, friendship, and also romantic, peer or community relationships.^[2] Codependency may also be characterized by denial, low self-esteem, excessive compliance, or control patterns.^[2] Narcissists are considered to be natural magnets for the codependent.

Development and scope of concept

Historically, the concept of codependence "comes directly out of Alcoholics Anonymous, part of a dawning realization that the problem was not solely the addict, but also the family and friends who constitute a network for the alcoholic."^[3] It was subsequently broadened to cover the way "that the codependent person is fixated on another person for approval, sustenance, and so on."^[3] As such, the concept overlaps with, but developed in the main independently from, the older psychoanalytic concept of the 'passive dependent personality' ... attaching himself to a stronger personality."^[4]
Some would retain the stricter, narrower dictionary definition of codependency, which requires one person to be physically or psychologically addicted, such as to heroin, and the second person to be psychologically dependent on that behavior.^[5]

Patterns and characteristics

Codependency describes behaviors, thoughts and feelings that go beyond normal kinds of self-sacrifice or caretaking. For example parenting is a role that requires a certain amount of self-sacrifice and giving a child's needs a high priority, although a parent could nevertheless still be codependent towards their own children if the caretaking or parental sacrifice reached unhealthy or destructive levels.^[2] Generally a parent who takes care of their own needs (emotional and physical) in a healthy way will be a better caretaker, whereas a codependent parent may be less effective, or may even do harm to a child.^[2] Another way to look at it is that the needs of an infant are necessary but temporary whereas the needs of the codependent are constant.
People who are codependent often take on the role of martyr; they constantly put others' needs before their own and in doing so forget to take care of themselves. This creates a sense that they are "needed"; they cannot stand the thought of being alone and no one needing them. Codependent people are constantly in search of acceptance. When it comes to arguments, codependent people also tend to set themselves up as the "victim". When they do stand up for themselves, they feel guilty.
Codependency does not refer to all caring behavior or feelings, but only those that are excessive to an unhealthy degree.^[6] Indeed, from the standpoint of Attachment theory or Object relations theory, "to risk becoming dependent"^[7] may be for the compulsively self-reliant a psychological advance, and "depending on a source outside oneself ... successful, or tolerable, dependence" ^[8] may be valorized accordingly.

Narcissism

Main article: Narcissism

Narcissists, with their ability to "get others to buy into their vision and help them make it a reality," are natural magnets for the "'co-dependent' ... [with] the tendency to put others' need before their own".^[9] Sam Vaknin considered that codependents, as "the Watsons of this world, 'provide the narcissist with an obsequious, unthreatening audience ... the perfect backdrop.'"^[10] Among the reciprocally locking interactions of the pair, are the way "the narcissist has an overpowering need to feel important and special, and the co-dependent has a strong need to help others feel that way. ... The narcissist overdoes self-caring and demands it from others, while the co-dependent underdoes or may even do almost no self-caring."^[11]
In psychoanalytic terms, the narcissist "who manifests such 'omnipotent' behaviour and who seems to be especially 'independent' exerts an especially fascinating effect on all ... dependent persons ... [who] struggle to participate in the 'omnipotent' narcissist's power":^[12] narcissist and codependent "participate together in a form of an ego-defense system called projective identification."^[13]
Rappoport identifies codependents of narcissists as "co-narcissists.":^[14] "the codependent narcissist gives up his or her own needs to feed and fuel the needs of the other."^[15]

Inverted narcissists

Sam Vaknin—"a self-help author who openly discusses his experiences as a person with narcissistic personality disorder"^[16]—has identified a special sub-class of such codependents as "inverted narcissists."
Inverted or "covert" narcissists are people who are "intensely attuned to others' needs, but only in so far as it relates to [their] own need to perform the requisite sacrifice"—an "inverted narcissist, who ensures that with compulsive care-giving, supplies of gratitude, love and attention will always be readily available ... [pseudo-]saintly."^[17] Vaknin considered that "the inverted narcissist is a person who grew up enthralled by the narcissistic parent ... the child becomes a masterful provider of Narcissistic Supply, a perfect match to the parent's personality."
In everyday life, the inverted narcissist "demands anonymity ... uncomfortable with any attention being paid to him ... [with] praise that cannot be deflected." Recovery means the ability to recognize the self-destructive elements in one's character structure, and to "develop strategies to minimize the harm to yourself."

Recovery

There are various recovery paths for individuals who struggle with codependency.
For example, some may choose behavioral psychotherapy, sometimes accompanied by chemical therapy for accompanying depression.
There also exist support groups for codependency, such as Co-Dependents Anonymous (CoDA), Al-Anon/Alateen, Nar-Anon, and Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACoA), which are based on the twelve-step program model of Alcoholics Anonymous and also Celebrate Recovery a Christian, Bible-based group. Although the term codependency originated outside of twelve-step groups, it is now a common concept in many of them.^[18]
Often an important result of a Family Intervention is to highlight codependent behaviors of various family members. This is sometimes a great help in encouraging the codependent person to accept help.
Many self-help guides have been written on the subject of codependency. One of the first was Codependent No More by Melody Beattie, published in 1987. Beattie has since written several other books on the subject. Other authors include Pia Melody (Facing Co-dependence) and Shirley Smith (Set Yourself Free).
Author Dr. Henry Cloud has written many books on the subject of personal Boundaries, (including one book by that title.)
Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback girl by Natalie Lue is one of the most insightful books into Codependency.

Harmful effects of unaddressed codependency

Unresolved patterns of codependency can lead to more serious problems like alcoholism, drug addiction, eating disorders, sex addiction, and other self-destructive or self-defeating behaviors.^[19] People with codependency are also more likely to attract further abuse from aggressive individuals, more likely to stay in stressful jobs or relationships, less likely to seek medical attention when needed and are also less likely to get promotions and tend to earn less money than those without codependency patterns.^[19]
For some, the social insecurity caused by codependency can progress into full-blown social anxiety disorders like social phobia, avoidant personality disorder or painful shyness.^[19] Other stress-related disorders like panic disorder, depression or PTSD may also be present.^[19]

Symbiosis it seems is quite positive and affirms and empowers both parties.
Have a look at these scriptures with related ideas.

^{1 Corinthians 12 : 4 ff}

Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. ⁵ And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. ⁶ There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. ⁷ But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. ⁸ For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; ⁹ to another faith ^[d]by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of ^[e]healing ^[f]by the one Spirit, ¹⁰ and to another the ^[g]effecting of ^[h]miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the ^[i]distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. ¹¹ But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
¹² For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. ¹³ For ^[j]by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

....... But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, ²⁵ so that there may be no ^[p]division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. ²⁶ And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is ^[q]honored, all the members rejoice with it.

 Ephesians 3 

 ⁸ To me, the very least of all ^[d]saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, ⁹ and to ^[e]bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; ¹⁰ so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.

 ^{Ephesians 4}

¹¹ And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, ¹² for the equipping of the ^[d]saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; ¹³ until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the ^[e]knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature ^[f]which belongs to the fullness of Christ. ^14 [g]As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness ^[h]in deceitful scheming; ¹⁵ but ^[i]speaking the truth in love, ^[j]we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, ¹⁶ from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together ^[k]by what every joint supplies, according to the ^[l]proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

Codependency Manifests:

Hebrews 13:11-14  sounds adventurous doesn't it?
¹¹ For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priest as an offering for sin, are burned outside the camp. ¹² Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate. ¹³ So, let us go out to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach. ¹⁴ For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come.

This passage does too....
Isaiah 54:2 "Enlarge the place of your tent; Stretch out the curtains of your dwellings, spare not; Lengthen your cords And strengthen your pegs." And this also in relation to Christ's Passion in the previous chapter(53)

 So Co-dependency is , in the case of wrong doctrine, when a group starts to be sick because it adheres to empty human tradition rather than to God Himself.

One day I'll share all the prophetic words spoken by people, mostly without any knowledge of me,which describe what God has called me to do. Because of those words I HAVE to take a more fluid approach with the whims of one particular local church. Some of what men say can be accurate, some of it is just the product of men's assumptions and has no lasting authority at all.

Some of you know I stepped on Havant Church's toes when I dared speak about the subject of tithing.

Probably THE MOST symptomatic email reply of an unhealthy co-dependency was this one:

Hi Chris,

As much as I like you as a bloke, and as much as you’re entitled to your views on matters, you’re now running the risk of being divisive.

And you don’t wanna do that….

You know the Bible well, right? You’ll know Titus 3:9-11.

9        But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

10      Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.

11      You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Strong words. Not mine, not yours, God’s. And they’re beginning to apply to you, in my opinion….

This was all said complete with phrases like "(you)trash the leadership"  to the simple teaching of how God does not require a tithe in the New Covenant. God speaks instead only of giving, and giving according to the measure of faith that you have...oh...and joyfully, without compulsion.

When we discuss teachings we must allow that people will have different ideas. The email, and there were several, went beyond a difference of opinion, and started to angrily ascribe false accusations for the simple reason I was of a different opinion. ie I don't believe leaders have any mandate for teaching tithing. It completely undermines the free gospel.

So Co-dependency is , in the case of wrong doctrine, when a group starts to be sick because it adheres to empty human tradition rather than to God Himself.  This also is the entire history of the Jews , who rather than listen to Jesus, adhered to their own group opinions which then became very dangerous ....dangerous to the life of Christ, but dangerous for their people thereafter.

see also this related post

March letter to Havant Church

How Fatburning is related to spiritual leanness

Dear Havant Church
I am fat.

I don't need you to tell me. My body kind of knows it.
Thirty years of tuning and driving between tunings, customers biscuits and

snacking on service station garbage.
I'm not going to get condemned about it. I'm just going to learn the tricks that will help me lose weight.

Apart from the obvious. Put less in and get more active.

I know Cambridge Diet works...but if you ever go to a Cambridge Diet event and study the counsellors

you'll notice that they are yo yo dieters. See, our bodies have this weird emergency state, that tell us

to store as much as possible in case that person decides to diet that drastically again!!!

So, slow sure weightloss is best....AND it has to be enjoyable and it can be.

You justhave to know some tricks. Well it's early days and I'm still learning, but I've shed half a stone

by eating!!! But radically changing what I'm eating....and errrr...when. For example I was skipping

breakfasts...but now I'm not....and I'm losing weight. It's to do with kickstarting your metabolism.
And there are ten to twenty tips like this that are really sneaky, and really work!!

Tonight I was thinking, you know, our spiritual life really is the same.
I want to share some tricks.

I was born again at 13, and when I was baptised in the Spirit I led my grammar School year,

and some above us in revival. It was part of the Jesus move of 71/72, and it was completely

spontaneous. Now, just as in the same way obesity has kind of crept up on us westerners,

the same sort of fat sluggishness has crept up on people of that move. Nobody meant it to happen.

Nobody radically did anything for it to happen. But as we look back we can see signs that it has

to some extent happened. And just as we don't get condemned about our obesity....we just

start learning some better tricks....so it's the same spiritually. Except that this will be a first.

No spiritual generation as far as I can tell has ever woken up again in all of history. But

they have all without question done the same as Israel in the wilderness. DIED OUT.

Leaving it to another generation.

Let's look at some of the main things we had 40 years ago.

Remember, this was an England that had had the Bishops declare that God was dead in the 60s.
And here was God presenting Himself through Billy Graham as alive, that we could be born again,

and by the 70s, that we could be baptised in the Holy Spirit. Revolution didn't cover it!!!

We were gobsmacked. And none more than me. having been raised by two physics teachers

who had taught Kofi Annan in Ghana, and having garnered 11 A's in my twelfth year....to then

realise that this whole system of learning was majorly flawed, because it left no room for the supernatural,

meant that we retraced our steps completely, trying to work out which bits of our reality could be trusted.

No joke. We were round each other's houses like in Acts. We loved each other with great affection. More

than that, we were actually IN LOVE with each other. We didn't want to be apart.  We studied together.

We prayed together. We had new songs which we shared. We prophesied. We shared in the new

supernatural way of running meetings. Small key of David meetings.

When Christine and I joined Havant this is what it was like:

some of the first things we went to because Ben was small, was the children's playgroup.

Was it the two Ruths running it? Is that right? The lady that went to Eastbourne? Anyhow

we just couldn't break into the cliquey nature of it all. Now I know this is no different from any group of mothers,

especially on an Island like Hayling Island. But one thing was for certain, it had nothing to do with the Christianity

I was born again in.

Jesus is the glue.

The Living Jesus.
We all process Him in different ways....and different churches process Him in different ways.

But however we process Jesus it takes a basic spiritual form underneath everything.

It is "hearing His voice" and "doing what He tells us" by faith that it is Him telling us.

And how do we know? because He speaks to our heart.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not rely on your insight.

When Jesus is speaking to our hearts, then when we get together it's fun, because

we are all unpacking fresh manna together in the meetings. And we are reminded

that that's why we love each other so much. because it's Jesus Himself who came

in when we were born again. And it is the same Jesus in me as in everybody else

regardless of age....and that's the incredible thing.

I was prophesying at 13 and 14 into my new church. By 18 I was pastoring.

I knew about as much as Terry Virgo probably knew at the same era, except that

he had lots of Baptist knowledge from his pastoring days.
You see in those days it was simple. You were born again, and you were baptised in the Spirit.

Period. That was more or less it. That's all we knew. The fact that that covers only about the first 24 hours

of Israel's flight from Egypt had somehow escaped us.

That 1 John 2 clearly says there are three stages of growth....well forget it. We just didn't know.

So right there are two tricks:

Trick 1 is make sure you are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul mind and strength, so

that you have a daily walk....you are receiving fresh manna and working with it by faith...oh and sharing it.

Trick 2 is make sure you are geared up for more than what Jesus referred to as a "half built Tower"

which people laugh at....which is to preach the equivalent of spiritual babyhood and spiritual teenage,

but never preach what Fatherlevel Christianity is about. So ofcourse, we in the charismatic movement

have given the world's media carte blanche permission to just laugh at Havant church and all other churches

like it.....why....because we never ever grow up and take over the area, as St Paul would say.

We don't meet because it's the done thing to do. We don't go round each other's houses because

Alan has organised an area meeting. We naturally do all those things even if it's not a Sunday,

because we really love each other and because we are bursting with so much to share.

So what are some of the other "fat-indicators"?
Well , funnily enough....it's the spiritual stuff itself.

Let's look at Jacob.

His spiritual teenage was learning the faith tricks of speckled sheep and striped sheep and how

you could supernaturally work the system so he always ended up wih more. Laban got increasingly

hot under the collar!!  But Jacob was getting fat. he was going through the motions and getting bored.

So he left. He should really have faced up to Laban...but that was still part of his cowardly spiritual

level...so he didn't and fled secretly by night.

Now Peter Stott,Mariette, Paul Butcher,John and Wendy, the worship group, Molly and Lydia

have been at this game for forty years. They know which strings to pull. They know if you put in

so much in personal prayer, and prayer as a church, plus preparation of the worship group, plus

prayer before the meetings out the back and in.....they know they are more or less assured of getting

speckled and striped sheep

of the Presence of the Lord coming down

of meetings being to some extent real

real things happening to folk.

But it's a trick really.

It's knowhow.

It's not relationship.

I have teased the whole church on my blog about their prayer habit: as an OCD condition.

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. like forever washing your hands.
Havant even have prayer meetings about prayer meetings about prayer meetings.

It's kinda like tithing mint and cumin and making sure all your bases are covered incase

this angry Genesis 3 God is going to say " Well they've only prayed 9 hours this week

and not made the compulsory weekly total of 9 hours 40 minutes, so I am afraid I cannot

come down this week.

But the first thing is heart relationship. There are not two Jesuses. There is only one.

So if Peter is claiming to have a relationship with Jesus, but it doesn't meld with the Jesus in Kevin and Lois,

or Rohan Barton, or Paul Noble, or Elaine Waterfield, then he's in cuckooland.

There Is Only One Jesus.

If we don't discern the Body Paul says....for this reason some are sick and have died.
We don't need so many hoops if we are actually obeying the Living Christ.

He has told us that the Body is ONLY JOINED by that which each joint supplies
BUT ONLY when that joint is working properly. In other words it has to be Christ

supplying through that joint for the rest of the Body to grow. Only Christ builds

Christ.

Words about Christ, but that don't originate in Christ don't do it.

It's like the game Simon says. It has to be Simon saying it.
Christ lives, reigns and operates in what Hebrews call the Melchizedek order.

This is an order that He established as soon as He came out of Jordan River.
He has made us Kings and Priests of this new order. That's the training

we receive in meetings. To learn to operate in this order.

When someone speaks and it isn't of that Order, it's something else, but it isn't Christ.

If Paul Butcher says today I am talking about stereo speakers, and he gives as his

example some music played in mono, he can talk all he likes, but it isn't stereo so we

all remain clueless.

One time he did the spiritual equivalent. He relayed the entire talk of Mark Stibbe on

Fatherhood I think. But when Mark said it he spoke under an anointing. Paul

killed the whole subject. He probably prevented anyone from ever wanting to learn about it.

But when Paul speaks of something the Lord has shown him personally it comes across a lot better.

These are some of the tricks behind learning to be a spiritually lean church and not just a fat blob

like me. If for no other reason you resolve to be lean spiritually...just think. I do not want to be

like that fat blob Welch.
Chris