The Meaning Of Union I - VIII - David Heisler (2017series)

This is a 2017 version of the subject covered here in 2013



David Heisler is on Facebook which is where these teaching topics are published

What is meant by “union”? “Union” expresses a “right now” reality for all who believe in Jesus. Now, is belief in the historical person, Jesus of Nazareth, required for “union” reality? That is a good question for another day. It should be clear though that the Jesus we know is truly not the Man, Jesus, who lived some 2000 years ago. We do believe in Him and we know somewhat, historically, about Him. But the One we know in our hearts and in our spirits is the eternal Jesus – the eternal Christ – the eternal Messiah. At this point you may be confused or even troubled that I make this distinction. Read on.


If you are reading this you have “union” or are “in union” with God. All those who believe are really and truly in union with their Creator. The much more important question is if we know this reality, this union. And, we may not know it - yet.
I am talking about moving into the “inner knowing” of union. This discussion must start with how you perceive yourself at this moment. This “moment” is the only one you have. I’m not sure if there really is another moment other than the one we experience presently. Jesus is certainly the Alpha and the Omega – the beginning and end, but we only know this one moment at a time. We must find Him and our union, oneness with our Creator, in this moment.

There are certain realities in life for the believer. So, when I say that all believers are in union with their Creator; that is a reality. And, reality is not changed or altered by your opinion of what is real. But the day to day living in this reality is affected by your perception of reality and, in turn, your perception of yourself.
There are three very distinct perceptions of who or what you know and believe yourself to be. The best scriptural reference I know, and, refer to often, regarding personal perception, is found in I John 2.12-13: “I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.”
John refers to three categories of perception, Children, Young Men and Fathers. These are not three categories of personhood, only of perception and understanding at the moment. There are not three categories of believers. In fact we are all Fathers – we just don’t all know it. But when we do - we know our “union”. You always are in union with God, but you might not be fully aware of it at this moment. But, there are eternal reasons and meaning for each category.

John says, “Children, Young Men and Fathers”. [1 John 2.12-13] The category you find yourself in is merely your perception of yourself. Of course we all have all sorts of perceptions and thoughts, but these are the basic three – Children, Young Men and Fathers - at least as far as John saw it.
Now, what does “category” or “perception” mean? Let’s explain. “Children” see themselves in a childlike relationship with God. Generally speaking that person is relatively new to the faith. That person might have had a dramatic conversion experience, as I did. God, who was far off, is now near and He is kind and loving and basically, “Daddy”. It’s a sweet time especially for those who really need a Daddy. However, the Child is basically a “taker” and not a “giver” and, in basic, early immature perception, not much help in the furtherance of the Kingdom. But that is not a criticism, only a factual statement of where we all began.
In the Child stage “forgiveness of sin” is big – for many - really big. I say that because there are many that come to faith in Jesus with a checkered past. Their life gets a complete makeover upon faith in Jesus. So, knowing the burden and the penalty of sin is lifted and that you have eternal life because of the vicarious death of the Savior, life is wonderful and changing, perhaps rapidly.

So, we said that “Child” is the start in how you perceive yourself in this new life of faith and knowing God. And, just as a human child, the reality is that you’re not going to stay a “Child” forever. Some try, but inevitably all will move on.
And, just as a human child, you are totally on the receiving end, dependent on others. And, as it should be, the Child is full of awe and wonder. The Child has many questions and no end of the more “experienced” willing to give advice and guidance. Everyone wants to make sure the Child gets started on the right foot.
Most, new to Christianity, approach it as one would approach anything new – get with the program - find out what you can - associate with others. Advice is freely given by those further down the road.
Up until salvation God is seen as far off. He appears to be a separate entity from me. We seem to exist in the same universe, but He is “up” in heaven and I am “down” here on earth. But, after salvation - we now know Him, personally, intuitively, and before we did not. But basically He still appears to be “outside” or “separate” from us. Christianity is now seen as a thing to be learned, program to do – Bible to memorize, quiet times to have, church to join and go to, bible studies to attend. It can all get very complicated very quickly. It did for me.

I became a believer in Jesus at 18 years of age. I was born and raised Jewish and then, a few months after my moment of faith in Jesus, got baptized and confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church at Sacred Heart University in Bridgeport, Connecticut. Next, I was baptized Southern Baptist at James Avenue Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas. Next, I learned about communal living at the Episcopal Church of the Redeemer in Houston, Texas. I attended Bill Gothard’s Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts. And finally, I got the "Holy Ghost” complete with my own prayer language. All this occurred before my 20th birthday. Not bad for a Jewish kid from New York.
I was a mess.
What happened? What happened to the simplicity of “Daddy”...my sins are forgiven... and I’m going to heaven? Well, what happened was my Child stage of Christianity was over and I commenced life as a Young Man. While my life history may be different than yours, we all have similar feelings, emotions and psychology regarding our progression from Children to Young Men and on to Fatherhood. However, before jumping into the “Young Man” discussion, it is crucial to understand what Christian “growth” means and to review some basics.

Let’s discuss “Christian” growth. First, consider a human embryo. Upon conception that human has the genetic potential for all he or she will ever be. While the human will grow from a microscopic size to a full grown size – the fertilized egg, genetically speaking, is a complete human being. That embryo will never become more of a human being or a better human being. In the very same sense the “child” Christian – while new in the faith – is a complete Christian. In fact, better still, a complete person. The Child will never become more of a Christian or a better person. The Child will never be closer to God or have more of Him. The Child is a 100% complete Christian at salvation.
Now, you would never ever say that because a human being is young or small, that somehow they are not a complete person. Physical growth does not affect the reality of who a human, or a person, is. The confusing point is that, as Christians, we equate Christian growth with getting closer to God by learning more about Him or living a more ethical or moral existence – doing what “Jesus would do” – becoming more “Christ-like”. This is primarily because in the “Child” and “Young Man” stages, God is still perceived as external or a separate Being – which is a misconception – as He is neither external nor separate.

In reality God chose to deem the entire creation lost - not some more than others – just all lost. All need forgiveness – all need a Savior. What He did at that point did not depend upon a human – with the exception of One – Jesus Christ. The crucifixion is the one and final sacrifice needed to bring the entire creation to redemption. “… though the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things … [Col. 1.20] And, the crucifixion is not just a historical event, but rather eternal.
So, when a person avails their self to the free gift of redemption, a very common prayer used by many, upon their first exercise of faith is, “Come into my heart, Lord Jesus”. Well, guess what? That is actually and precisely what happens. Why would anyone doubt that? His Spirit is now joined to your spirit. His Heart and your heart are one. An eternal, Holy Union of God to man is created upon that exercise of faith. It does not get “better” or “more”. It simply is. We should be crystal clear on that point. It really doesn’t get any better. Union is not a relationship that can be measured. It simply is. The only relevant question remaining, and what we are really talking about here is, “do I know it?” Do I know my union? And the reality is that a Child or Young Man really cannot know their union. The union is real however, but it simply is not for the Child or Young Man to fathom – not at the moment.

So basically, in a flash, at the moment of faith, you go from lost to found – sinner to saint. Jesus really, really comes into your heart and you are now born again as a new creation in Christ. There are no better or worse sinners. By the same token there are no better or worse saints. You either are or you are not. And, of course if you are reading this – “you are”. So, if there actually is such a thing as “Christian growth”, it is and can only be in the human understanding of who you already are, not in the reality of who you are.
So, Christian growth, if there is such a thing, is all about understanding, not about becoming. At the moment of salvation His Spirit formed a union with your spirit. Despite the eternal truth that you are in Spirit to spirit union with the King of Kings, you may not know that. The eyes of a Child or a Young Man can still perceive Him as being distant and a distinct Being.
We now enter the Young Man stage. Remember how John describes the Young Man: “… I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one…. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.” [I John 2.12-14]

Christianity doesn't work for the Old Adam

(Facebook status - Chris Welch)Christianity doesn't really "work" for the Old Adam. It wasn't designed to. Sure, you can try a bit of Aladdin's Lamp Holy Spirit Genie rubbing while continung to live in separation. The 12 disciples were master at that for a while. One even dipped his mitts Catholic/Rothschild like in the mission funds, though he did end up committing suicide.
Nope....Christianity works best identifying ourselves with the complete Adamic death on the Cross,fully raised up as new creations in Christ. How do you do that,Chris? Errrr.Well you don't. It's too late. It's been done. Your soul just has to catch up. All the soul link feeds that are still connected with the ADAMIC Matrix are ALL BOGUS. The Matrix doesn't want you to know that. But there is NOT ONE GENUINE FEEDLINE. Hebrews 4 describes it this way....dividing to the piercing of soul and spirit, joints and marrow. The only genuine Life feeds into your soul are Spirit feeds, because your spirit is primarily who you are, as expressed through your soul. But you never were a selfpowered soul, and you still aren't. Funnily enough, living in unbelief is more "false believing" than not believing. If you try making Christianity work believing you are a self-powered soul absolutely nothing works. Christ living His life as us works very well...but it has the appearance that it doesn't, because we're not living according to the Matrix. So initially, all people see are lots of loose,straggling Matrix feeds swinging idly in the wind, so still attached themselves, people assume Christianity is useless. NOPE....it just takes time learning to get the hang of Living from your own internal powersupply when you've been used to Rothschild's.

March letter to Havant Church

How Fatburning is related to spiritual leanness

Dear Havant Church
I am fat.

I don't need you to tell me. My body kind of knows it.
Thirty years of tuning and driving between tunings, customers biscuits and

snacking on service station garbage.
I'm not going to get condemned about it. I'm just going to learn the tricks that will help me lose weight.

Apart from the obvious. Put less in and get more active.

I know Cambridge Diet works...but if you ever go to a Cambridge Diet event and study the counsellors

you'll notice that they are yo yo dieters. See, our bodies have this weird emergency state, that tell us

to store as much as possible in case that person decides to diet that drastically again!!!

So, slow sure weightloss is best....AND it has to be enjoyable and it can be.

You justhave to know some tricks. Well it's early days and I'm still learning, but I've shed half a stone

by eating!!! But radically changing what I'm eating....and errrr...when. For example I was skipping

breakfasts...but now I'm not....and I'm losing weight. It's to do with kickstarting your metabolism.
And there are ten to twenty tips like this that are really sneaky, and really work!!

Tonight I was thinking, you know, our spiritual life really is the same.
I want to share some tricks.

I was born again at 13, and when I was baptised in the Spirit I led my grammar School year,

and some above us in revival. It was part of the Jesus move of 71/72, and it was completely

spontaneous. Now, just as in the same way obesity has kind of crept up on us westerners,

the same sort of fat sluggishness has crept up on people of that move. Nobody meant it to happen.

Nobody radically did anything for it to happen. But as we look back we can see signs that it has

to some extent happened. And just as we don't get condemned about our obesity....we just

start learning some better tricks....so it's the same spiritually. Except that this will be a first.

No spiritual generation as far as I can tell has ever woken up again in all of history. But

they have all without question done the same as Israel in the wilderness. DIED OUT.

Leaving it to another generation.

Let's look at some of the main things we had 40 years ago.

Remember, this was an England that had had the Bishops declare that God was dead in the 60s.
And here was God presenting Himself through Billy Graham as alive, that we could be born again,

and by the 70s, that we could be baptised in the Holy Spirit. Revolution didn't cover it!!!

We were gobsmacked. And none more than me. having been raised by two physics teachers

who had taught Kofi Annan in Ghana, and having garnered 11 A's in my twelfth year....to then

realise that this whole system of learning was majorly flawed, because it left no room for the supernatural,

meant that we retraced our steps completely, trying to work out which bits of our reality could be trusted.

No joke. We were round each other's houses like in Acts. We loved each other with great affection. More

than that, we were actually IN LOVE with each other. We didn't want to be apart.  We studied together.

We prayed together. We had new songs which we shared. We prophesied. We shared in the new

supernatural way of running meetings. Small key of David meetings.

When Christine and I joined Havant this is what it was like:

some of the first things we went to because Ben was small, was the children's playgroup.

Was it the two Ruths running it? Is that right? The lady that went to Eastbourne? Anyhow

we just couldn't break into the cliquey nature of it all. Now I know this is no different from any group of mothers,

especially on an Island like Hayling Island. But one thing was for certain, it had nothing to do with the Christianity

I was born again in.

Jesus is the glue.

The Living Jesus.
We all process Him in different ways....and different churches process Him in different ways.

But however we process Jesus it takes a basic spiritual form underneath everything.

It is "hearing His voice" and "doing what He tells us" by faith that it is Him telling us.

And how do we know? because He speaks to our heart.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not rely on your insight.

When Jesus is speaking to our hearts, then when we get together it's fun, because

we are all unpacking fresh manna together in the meetings. And we are reminded

that that's why we love each other so much. because it's Jesus Himself who came

in when we were born again. And it is the same Jesus in me as in everybody else

regardless of age....and that's the incredible thing.

I was prophesying at 13 and 14 into my new church. By 18 I was pastoring.

I knew about as much as Terry Virgo probably knew at the same era, except that

he had lots of Baptist knowledge from his pastoring days.
You see in those days it was simple. You were born again, and you were baptised in the Spirit.

Period. That was more or less it. That's all we knew. The fact that that covers only about the first 24 hours

of Israel's flight from Egypt had somehow escaped us.

That 1 John 2 clearly says there are three stages of growth....well forget it. We just didn't know.

So right there are two tricks:

Trick 1 is make sure you are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul mind and strength, so

that you have a daily walk....you are receiving fresh manna and working with it by faith...oh and sharing it.

Trick 2 is make sure you are geared up for more than what Jesus referred to as a "half built Tower"

which people laugh at....which is to preach the equivalent of spiritual babyhood and spiritual teenage,

but never preach what Fatherlevel Christianity is about. So ofcourse, we in the charismatic movement

have given the world's media carte blanche permission to just laugh at Havant church and all other churches

like it.....why....because we never ever grow up and take over the area, as St Paul would say.

We don't meet because it's the done thing to do. We don't go round each other's houses because

Alan has organised an area meeting. We naturally do all those things even if it's not a Sunday,

because we really love each other and because we are bursting with so much to share.

So what are some of the other "fat-indicators"?
Well , funnily enough....it's the spiritual stuff itself.

Let's look at Jacob.

His spiritual teenage was learning the faith tricks of speckled sheep and striped sheep and how

you could supernaturally work the system so he always ended up wih more. Laban got increasingly

hot under the collar!!  But Jacob was getting fat. he was going through the motions and getting bored.

So he left. He should really have faced up to Laban...but that was still part of his cowardly spiritual

level...so he didn't and fled secretly by night.

Now Peter Stott,Mariette, Paul Butcher,John and Wendy, the worship group, Molly and Lydia

have been at this game for forty years. They know which strings to pull. They know if you put in

so much in personal prayer, and prayer as a church, plus preparation of the worship group, plus

prayer before the meetings out the back and in.....they know they are more or less assured of getting

speckled and striped sheep

of the Presence of the Lord coming down

of meetings being to some extent real

real things happening to folk.

But it's a trick really.

It's knowhow.

It's not relationship.

I have teased the whole church on my blog about their prayer habit: as an OCD condition.

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. like forever washing your hands.
Havant even have prayer meetings about prayer meetings about prayer meetings.

It's kinda like tithing mint and cumin and making sure all your bases are covered incase

this angry Genesis 3 God is going to say " Well they've only prayed 9 hours this week

and not made the compulsory weekly total of 9 hours 40 minutes, so I am afraid I cannot

come down this week.

But the first thing is heart relationship. There are not two Jesuses. There is only one.

So if Peter is claiming to have a relationship with Jesus, but it doesn't meld with the Jesus in Kevin and Lois,

or Rohan Barton, or Paul Noble, or Elaine Waterfield, then he's in cuckooland.

There Is Only One Jesus.

If we don't discern the Body Paul says....for this reason some are sick and have died.
We don't need so many hoops if we are actually obeying the Living Christ.

He has told us that the Body is ONLY JOINED by that which each joint supplies
BUT ONLY when that joint is working properly. In other words it has to be Christ

supplying through that joint for the rest of the Body to grow. Only Christ builds

Christ.

Words about Christ, but that don't originate in Christ don't do it.

It's like the game Simon says. It has to be Simon saying it.
Christ lives, reigns and operates in what Hebrews call the Melchizedek order.

This is an order that He established as soon as He came out of Jordan River.
He has made us Kings and Priests of this new order. That's the training

we receive in meetings. To learn to operate in this order.

When someone speaks and it isn't of that Order, it's something else, but it isn't Christ.

If Paul Butcher says today I am talking about stereo speakers, and he gives as his

example some music played in mono, he can talk all he likes, but it isn't stereo so we

all remain clueless.

One time he did the spiritual equivalent. He relayed the entire talk of Mark Stibbe on

Fatherhood I think. But when Mark said it he spoke under an anointing. Paul

killed the whole subject. He probably prevented anyone from ever wanting to learn about it.

But when Paul speaks of something the Lord has shown him personally it comes across a lot better.

These are some of the tricks behind learning to be a spiritually lean church and not just a fat blob

like me. If for no other reason you resolve to be lean spiritually...just think. I do not want to be

like that fat blob Welch.
Chris

Barna Proves Nobody Has a Clue about Spiritual maturity. (This blog's main thesis!!)

Many Churchgoers and Faith Leaders Struggle to Define Spiritual Maturity
Barna Group Post  May 11, 2009

America may possess the world’s largest infrastructure for nurturing human spirituality, complete with hundreds of thousands of houses of worship, thousands of parachurch organizations and schools, and seemingly unlimited products, resources and experts.
Yet, a new study from the Barna Group identifies an underlying reason why there is little progress in helping people develop spiritually: many churchgoers and clergy struggle to articulate a basic understanding of spiritual maturity. People aspire to be spiritually mature, but they do not know what it means. Pastors want to guide others on the path to spiritual wholeness, but they are often not clearly defining the goals or the outcomes of that process.

The research was conducted by Barna Group in partnership with Living on the Edge (www.livingontheedge.org) and included a nationwide, random sample of adults and a similar national survey among Protestant pastors, exploring definitions of, perceptions about, and perceived barriers to spiritual maturity.

 

Five Challenges

The study showed five significant challenges when it comes to facilitating people’s spiritual growth.
1. Most Christians equate spiritual maturity with following the rules.
One of the widely embraced notions about spiritual health is that it means “trying hard to follow the rules described in the Bible” – 81% of self-identified Christians endorsed this statement, and a majority agreed strongly (53%). Even among those individuals defined by their belief that salvation is not earned through “good works,” four out of five born again Christians concurred that spiritual maturity is “trying hard to follow the rules.”
2. Most churchgoers are not clear what their church expects in terms of spiritual maturity. 
An open-ended survey question asked churchgoers to describe how their church defined a “healthy, spiritually mature follower of Jesus.” Half of churchgoers simply said they were not sure, unable to venture a guess regarding the church’s definition. Even among born again Christians – that is, a smaller subset of believers who have made a profession of faith in Christ and confessed their sinful nature – two out of five were not able to identify how their church defines spiritual maturity. Among those who gave a substantive response, the most common responses were having a relationship with Jesus (16%), practicing spiritual disciplines like prayer and Bible study (9%), living according to the Bible (8%), being obedient (8%), being involved in church (7%), and having concern for others (6%).
3. Most Christians offer one-dimensional views of personal spiritual maturity. 
A second open-ended question probed self-identified Christians’ personal definition of what it means to be a healthy, spiritually mature follower of Jesus, regardless of how they believe their church defines it. One-fifth of self-described Christians were unable to offer an opinion. Other identified elements included: relationship with Jesus (21%), following rules and being obedient (15%), living a moral lifestyle (14%), possessing concern about others (13%), being involved in spiritual disciplines (13%), applying the Bible (12%), being spiritual or having belief (8%), sharing their faith with others (6%), and being involved in church activities (5%). Born again Christians were similar in all respects to self-described Christians except they were more likely to mention having a relationship with Jesus (30%) as the sign of spiritual maturity. Further reflecting a lack of depth on the subject, the open-ended questions typically produced, on average, just one response from survey respondents, despite the fact that interviewers repeatedly probed for additional or clarifying comments.
4. Most pastors struggle with feeling the relevance as well as articulating a specific set of objectives for spirituality, often favoring activities over attitudes.
The research among pastors highlighted several inter-related challenges. First, while nearly nine out of 10 pastors said that a lack of spiritual maturity is the most significant or one of the largest problems facing the nation, a minority of pastors believe that spiritual immaturity is a problem in their church. A second challenge is that only a minority of churches has a written statement expressing the outcomes they are looking for in spiritually mature people. A third challenge is that pastors often favor activities over perspectives in their definitions of spiritual maturity. Their metrics for people’s spirituality include the practice of spiritual disciplines (19%), involvement in church activities (15%), witnessing to others (15%), having a relationship with Jesus (14%), having concern for others (14%), applying the Bible to life (12%), being willing to grow spiritually (12%), and having knowledge of Scripture (9%).
5. Pastors are surprisingly vague about the biblical references they use to chart spiritual maturity for people.
One of the reasons churches struggle with making disciples may relate to the lack of clarity that pastors have about the underlying biblical passages that address the process of spiritual maturity. This is most clearly reflected in the huge proportion of pastors who give generic responses when asked to identify the most important portions of the Bible that define spiritual maturity. In fact, one-third of pastors simply said “the whole Bible.” Other generic responses included “the gospels” (17%), the New Testament (15%), and Paul’s letters (10%). In all, the survey showed that three-quarters of pastors mentioned some type of generic answer to this query. In addition, one out of every five pastors gave a semi-generic response, such as “Romans” or the “life of Christ.”
As for verse-specific responses (mentioned by just one-fifth of pastors), the most common passages included: Galatians 5, John 3:16, Ephesians 4, Matthew 28, and Romans 12:1-2. Just 2% of pastors specifically identified the Galatians 5 passage relating to the “fruits of the Spirit,” which includes love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, and self-control. Theme specific answers represented just 7% of responses, including the Sermon on the Mount, the Great Commission, the Great Commandment, and the Beatitudes.

 

Five Opportunities

The research also identifies a number of opportunities that can be leveraged to address the problems related to spirituality maturity.
1. Christians and pastors have clarity about the major boundaries that must be addressed to tackle the problem.
What are the perceived reasons that people do not grow spiritually? Self-identified Christians were asked about the obstacles they experience while pastors were queried to see how well they understand the barriers facing their congregants. Church leaders believe the three primary obstacles to people’s engagement are lack of personal motivation (32%), other competing obligations and distractions (26%), and lack of involvement in activities that nurture growth (19%). In this respect, they do not seem too far off in their perceptions. Born again Christians identify distractions (24%), lack of motivation (20%), and lack of involvement (13%) as challenges they face, even if two of the three are mentioned less frequently by adults than pastors. Born again Christians, however, are more likely than pastors to identify sinful behaviors and habits as tripping them up (14% of believers versus 8% of pastors).
2. While most Americans are relatively content with their spirituality “as is,” millions aspire to grow spiritually.
Most adults think of themselves as both spiritually healthy as well as spiritually satisfied, which is both a challenge and an opportunity. The challenge is that most people’s satisfaction can lead to complacency. One opportunity is to connect with the 18 to 20 million Americans who describe themselves as spiritually unhealthy or as dissatisfied with their personal spiritual maturity. Still, a majority of adults say they are “completely” (14%) or “mostly” healthy when it comes to spirituality (40%); nearly two-thirds of Americans describe themselves as “completely” (22%) or “mostly” satisfied with their spirituality (43%). The opportunity among these individuals is to help them move beyond complacency and embrace a deeper understanding of spiritual growth.
3. Compared to older believers, Christians under the age of 40 are less satisfied with spirituality and less “rule oriented.”
Young Christians show signs of spiritual openness that older adults do not. People under the age of 40 are different than those Christians over 40 by being less satisfied spiritually and also rating their spiritual health less favorably. In addition, the generational difference over rule-following was striking: most Elders (ages 63+) and Boomers (44 to 62) strongly endorsed the spiritual metric of rule-following (66% and 56%, respectively); however, fewer than half of Busters (25 to 43) and Mosaics (18 to 24) embraced this view (45% and 33%). Among the young, this signals a dangerous propensity to rethink the Bible’s standards, but it also shows unique responsiveness to grace and forgiveness.
4. Pastors realize they need more help when it comes to assessing spiritual health.
Just 9% of clergy said they were completely satisfied with their ability to measure and assess the spiritual health of their congregation. Still, few pastors (8%) were expressly dissatisfied, leaving a majority of leaders moderately satisfied. Perhaps churchgoers would become less complacent about self-evaluation as pastors embrace more effective forms of evaluation for their congregations.
5. Pastors tend to be harder on themselves than are congregants.
About 1 out of 10 pastors said the church itself was a barrier to people’s growth, while none of the churchgoers offered a similar critique. Similarly, when asked to rate the church’s ability to help people grow spiritually, pastors were significantly less likely (6%) than churchgoers (33%) to give the organization high marks, reflecting the fact that pastors are often their own toughest critics. The opportunity is to forge a greater sense of partnership and mutual esteem between leaders and laity to address the challenges, to work against self-deception in the process, and to craft deeper, more appropriate routes to spiritual maturity.

 

Implications

David Kinnaman, President of the California-based research firm, directed the research project. He pointed out several implications of the study:
“America has a spiritual depth problem partly because the faith community does not have a robust definition of its spiritual goals. The study shows the need for new types of spiritual metrics. One new metric might be a renewed effort on the part of leaders to articulate the outcomes of spiritual growth. Another might be the relational engagement and accountability that people maintain. Of course, spirituality is neither a science nor a business, so there is a natural resistance to ascribing scientific or operational standards to what most people believe is an organic process. Yet, the process of spiritual growth is neither simplistic nor without guidelines, so hard work and solid thinking in this arena is needed.”
“As people begin to realize that the concepts and practices of spiritual maturity have been underdeveloped, the Christian community is likely to enter a time of renewed emphasis on discipleship, soul care, the tensions of truth and grace, the so-called ‘fruits’ of the spiritual life, and the practices of spiritual disciplines. A related challenge is that as spiritual formation becomes ‘trendy’ it will inevitably become ‘watered down’ with products that over-promise or are simply counter-productive. Leaders have to take on this issue more effectively, and part of that task is weeding out the good from bad.”

 

Research

This report is based upon nationwide telephone surveys conducted by The Barna Group with random samples of adults, age 18 and older, and Protestant clergy. The survey among adults was conducted in August 2008 among 1005 adults randomly selected from across the continental United States. The maximum margin of sampling error associated with the aggregate sample is ±3.2 percentage points at the 95% confidence level. The survey among pastors included 611 clergy, with a maximum margin of sampling error of ±4.0 percentage points at the 95% confidence level. Statistical weighting was used to calibrate the sample to known population percentages in relation to demographic variables.
“Born again Christians” are defined as people who said they have made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ that is still important in their life today and who also indicated they believe that when they die they will go to Heaven because they had confessed their sins and had accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. Respondents are not asked to describe themselves as “born again.”
The Barna Group, Ltd. (which includes its research division, The Barna Research Group) is a private, non-partisan, for-profit organization that conducts primary research on a wide range of issues and products, produces resources pertaining to cultural change, leadership and spiritual development, and facilitates the healthy spiritual growth of leaders, children, families and Christian ministries. Located in Ventura, California, Barna has been conducting and analyzing primary research to understand cultural trends related to values, beliefs, attitudes and behaviors since 1984. If you would like to receive free e-mail notification of the release of each new, bi-monthly update on the latest research findings from The Barna Group, you may subscribe to this free service at the Barna website (www.barna.org). Additional research-based resources, both free and at discounted prices, are also available through that website.
© The Barna Group, Ltd, 2009.

Left Brain and Right brain and spirit

Facebook note by Chris Welch on Saturday, 20 November 2010 at 04:13

It is a gross simplification to reduce the left hemisphere to dealing with "step by step"thought. This is only a tiny fraction of what goes on in the left. Some linear thinking goes on in the right too.



What we do know is the "gobby articulate bit" occupies TOO high a position in how everything in the western world is run. It certainly is a mighty tool, but God never intended us to function as a giant corporate Stephen Fry.Nor to perpetuate this myth through its education system.



Kierkegaard did not have the tools to explain adequately why theology just based on the intellect was woefully inadequate. It is NOT a lot better now.



Though our right brains do tons of "inarticulate" but absolutely necessary tasks like

spatial skills,

imagination,

feelings,

skills of hyperawareness, like being aware your toddler needs you right NOW and she's in a completely different room (Dawkins hasn't studied that yet)

it is not the same as spirit.



Spirit as Daniel Yordy has recently taught us comprises everything we are,Two of the best Spirit leftbrains on the block are still little known. They are Andre Rabe and Francois du Toit.



They are like spiritual computers relaying Spirit realities in the Word. They are like Eldred Linden who used to visit Emsworth Church.



Prophet/ creatives tend to be a lot fuzzier, more tangential in their speech. .(If not mature,its like listening to dreams from someone that just had too much cheese last night!!!)But if mature...they are more Spirit rightbrain than" step by step" teachers.

But you notice still the same Spirit.



Here's their advantage....see there had to be one!!! These supposedly fluffy(fluffy because they do not speak in "step by step language") guys have razor sharp rightbrain abilities which in the Spirit of God translates to picking up what Ezekiel 10:8 refers to as "scrawlings".These are the ACTUAL HIDDEN programmes on which we run.



If these written words to you are in Microsoft Word 2000 which is on my PC, the programme operating system underneath,which until it goes wrong, shouldn't even concern you, is actually Windows Vista.



So the Spirit right brain folk pick up instantly what an individual's operating system is, or we go into a church and pick up the corporate operating system.

Virtually all of Rich Novek's writings and a good deal of Daniel Yordy's writings are to do with this inner seeing. This inner operating system on which we run. The message of the Kingdom is not "lo here, lo there". It is not some time to come.

The message of the Kingdom was always "The kingdom has come among you!!!!"



By faith lots of characters in the Old Testament turned the key "early".

Rahab, a Prostitute, should never have got anywhere near. Not only was she "near"....she is in the very line of Christ.

Ruth, a Canaanite, cursed until the 10th generation, was the same. Not only brought near, but King David's grandmother. WOW!

It doesn't say the glory of God will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea. It says THE KNOWLEDGE of the glory of God shall cover the earth........His glory is here now. Every genuine Spirit church meeting all that happens is that our perception changes to REALISE IT, and we FEEL the Presence of the Lord. The Presence is always there.



Now is the generation of those who WALK in this manifest Presence. The keys that we had for meetings are the same sort of faith keys we have now. Calling things that we don't "perceive", as though they are by faith, based on something more real than actual atoms....the very thing that even sustains those atoms....

THE WORD OF GOD.



I am now going to get into a specific local issue which came up in some public meetings, so these are not hidden issues that nobody knows about. This was revealed in a strong way at the last Key of David meeting in Portsdown Church premises in Havant. Key of David meetings are public meetings for any attendees from outside the area as well as for locals.

The November meeting spotlit the role of men in the Church as a whole. It was a call to "Awake O sleeper and rise from the dead and Christ shall give you light."" For in His light we see light." Ps36. This interestingly enough IS THE LAST CALL before the battle array verses of Ephesians 6.....when the Church goes into its self-for-others intercessory call to engage with the forces of this present evil age and do battle in the spirit.

The meaning of wrestle is VIBRATE.....we vibrate against principalities and powers.



Now this is equally true of the church general as it is of Havant Church itself. Three weeks ago when we were away, a local prophetic friend visited and gave a Word about the famous local ship of the Battle of Trafalgar, based in dry dock, called HMS Victory. The Word stated that it was basically a WAR SHIP in dry dock....and spoke of Havant in the same way. Havant have a particular calling to wait on God and find the secret Way. This is something similar to the 2nd World War. All the earth's armies were rushing around, but there was a group of backroom boffins working in the USA right away from the field of war, discovering how to split the atom. And devastatingly it was this knowledge that finally closed the war altogether in Japan at Hiroshima. I am not advocating what happened. I am stating fact.

Havant have a similar call.....



Now all well and good. Certain aspects of this are peculiar to Havant and hidden within the beings of those individuals seeking God. Certain aspects are not hidden. They are not known in the church at large. But they are not hidden. They have all been written down for us in "Yes I am" by Norman Grubb, and now by many other writers in books and now in blogs and on Facebook. It is just NOT TRUE to say they are hidden. To say they are is elitest...too precious.....and frankly arrogant and rude. A bit like when teenagers do not heed the advice of their parents but have to reinvent the wheel and make their own, sometimes lifelong mistakes.



Take Norman Grubb with 6 or 7 lifelong succeeded main intercessions as a poured out servant of God. He started understanding Christ as him around the 20s through Jessie Penn Lewis of Welsh Revival pioneering days.Norman's earlier books about CT Studd and WEC, and Rees Howells are well known classics. The reason his later works are not known, says nothing about the works, but everything about the obtuseness of the church at large to enter the third and final stage of growth: The 3rd Level. The Father stage of 1 John 2:12 ff. Of "knowing" Galations 2:20 inwardly.

I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.



Like any church, Havant have this great glory upon them that is God's unmerited favour, blessing and calling. Also, like any church they have arrogance and self will. Particularly in the light of their "secret" way calling they feel they have to shut themselves into it and learn the hard way by completely reinventing the wheel.



I was sharing with the leaders this week how the UK had a little known Kadesh-Barnea moment around 1979 -80. This relates to the abortive entrance to the Promised land that Israel had as they went through the Wilderness. They were shut out for 40 years until the first generation had died. All except Joshua and Caleb.



Around 1980, UK ministry said "NO" to God and we have spent around 30 years going around "Charismatic praise mountain" in the wilderness.

Third level mature Spirit ministries from the earlier Apostolic moves and Norman Grubb himself were repeatedly making approaches to the leadership in our country. Some like John Noble, a main leader at that time, attended third level conferences and decided the whole thing was not for Britain.



Much of what is happening now in Havant is no different at all from the 1st Glory Conference in 1984 that was held after direct revelation to Ian McCulloch, after being specifically called to fast and pray in a caravan. As usual, none of us realised the full worth of the revelation he was getting until 30 years later.



So.......back to three weeks ago and the subject of "scrawlings" and operating systems.

My prophetic friend wasn't in the church two minutes when he addressed a member called Martin, and said to him...

"What's wrong with this church? It's so feminine?"

There is a glory in femininity, and then there is a male emasculation. He was picking up the latter.

Independent to this, the Key of David meeting was on this very subject.



You see if men don't know Galations 2:20 in the Spirit....you can preach a left-brain detached version untiil you are blue in the face....but the Bible says this...

We are joined (ONLY) by that which every joint supplies.

And ALL ministry is for equipping the saints FOR ministry.



Well you don't "supply" that which you haven't been DIVINELY given

You don't minister to anyone just supplying left-brain information about what a 1200 page book says, even if it is the Bible. We can go off to the library and read that much for ourselves.

It is IN HIS LIGHT we see LIGHT.

It is only in HIS LIGHT we change or destroy our Ezekiel 10:8 scrawlings and change our operating systems.

It is ONLY JESUS HIMSELF that builds JESUS.

The Body of Christ is what it says on the TIN. It takes Christ to build Christ.



Havant meetings are quite good until we stop worshipping. Apart from the main leader, all the other speakers do not yet know how to impart that which they have been supplied with. Or they supplement their actual supply, with lots of material that wastes time and does nothing in the Spirit.



We have a particular lady in our congregation who falls asleep when there is no anointing. She should be put in a glass case up the front as a Preach-o-meter. We have another man that spontaneously bursts out laughing when God is up to something somewhere in the meeting.Perhaps he should be in a case the other side. Like those weather readers with the man and the woman.

Until people know how to impart, we should have a tag team of 3 or 4 preachers ready to speak for 10 -15 minutes or less, as defined by the Spirit, until people are mature and can tell the difference

between dry waterless wastes

and Rivers of Living Water.



Only that which is by the Spirit nourishes and builds the Body.



I questioned the leadership on how come, if Jesus only took 3 years to take people from fishing to full grown father status apostles, and all that before baptism in the Spirit...



how come Havant Church has been in existence for 30, ten times as long. and have experienced the Baptism in the Spirit and all the tools of growth, and there is not a single apostle yet?



Two absolute clangers were dropped at this point.

1. The disciples were personally trained by Our Lord. This was said in an incredibly Catholic voice for a free independent church.

2.Who is to say that it is the position and goal of a church to produce an apostle?



Rather than say anything, because I am too offended by both these statements....

perhaps someone with more grace than I have right now could gently add a few notes after this in the comments section. Address it to "anonymous leader" to save any remaining egg falling slowly down a face.



The thing I cannot work out at all is the symbiotic relationship between these comments of leaders raised up under Peter Stott and Peter himself. If Peter, who judging by his ministry is so advanced and used in many nations, how come the people he has chosen are so passive in their leadership and so lacking in knowledge about growth? One or other cannot be true. Either Peter isn't quite where I imagined, or he is...but something isn't tying up?



Anyhow, emasculated men, are church men who may know Galations 2:20 in their head, but it hasn't changed their scrawlings yet. So they "fake " brokenness. One guy who visits our church actually has a walking stick which kind of produces a "fake" Peniel effect. Read about how Jacob genuinely was touched at his strongest point, his thigh.



The grace gospel...what Paul called preaching grace in truth....was real. Is real. It makes its own results. We don't have to fake it. It is Christ within us as us who GROWS us, who builds us,who strengthens us....

Who HAS ALREADY KILLED US and taken us down into hell with Him

that He could LEGALLY raise us up with Himself in newness of Life.

If we know that in our operating system....excuse me....why the emasculated men, exactly?