We've got a slightly bizarre relationship with the Church here. God is definitely building something....but for the last 11 years we've not really known whether their patience will cease and we'll be out on our ear. (It's a bit like John Clarke's and Eldred Linden's relationship was with Emsworth)God has been in this though, because before the contingent arrived from Emsworth,myself included, God warned them of our arrival in a prophetic Word. Which kind of eased the way a bit.
Apart from men's weekends, I've not spent any time with Peter and Mariette Stott, and only an hour in 11 years with John and Wendy...I've been trying to dodge being drawn into furthering any 2ndlevel churchbuilding, while sneaking 3rdlevel stuff in through the cracks in the walls.
They've tried to draw me into music, because it seaped out that I play a few things. They've tried to get me to go to other countries with them. But the only thing that interests me is the outer reaches of key of David meetings. I just do not want to be seen ever again in any way supporting the "fake" superstructure of secondlevel churchbuilding...built on the lie of the independent self. If I had enough authority in the Spirit I would pull down all the works in Spain and rebuild 3rdlevel versions that are built on knowing Christ and Him only. No Genesis 3. Nothing!!!
For the last 3 years we've conducted a household policy like Darin's article below, which I read only this week. Here is a letter I wrote to the new leaders.
Hi Roderick and Angelina (names changed)
I wasn't there on Sunday but congrats on taking on more of a leadership role.
I thought I'd share some things that became clearer the other night while Christine and I were sharing with Nicholas and Pam. This concerns some light on light!
Dovetailed with this has been much more clarity on the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil versus the Tree of Life. (see facebook)
But first, a ground rule or 2.
The prophetic in us looks at situations, not at face value, but at the direction arrows that these situations point to.
It gets preachers into a lot of trouble.
So in World War 2, preachers saw Hitler as 666, and preached him as such.
Hitler wasn't 666 as it turned out, and they got egg on their face. But in the Spirit they were 100% accurate. He was moved by the Antichrist spirit....and if we'd have allowed him to continue...who knows where he would have ended up.
I got into trouble with Jeannie (Martin and Jeannie) who had just become ill , because in the meeting I had prayed over her, but first said this, which surfaced from my insides..." Jeannie, we just praise God, because the WORST that can ever happen to you is that you die and live for ever and ever and ever and ever with Jesus."
What she heard however, was a curse, which she began praying against for months afterwards. At Roger's leaving do she began telling me off really strongly for cursing her. This, from that moment on, tied my hands with having anything further to do with her...for instead of seeing me praying at the Rowans, she would have seen a warlock cursing her.
What the Spirit was really doing however was addressing this deep rooted fear she had about dying. Who knows...if we could have just unseated that one, maybe we could have prayed better. Jesus had a similar spirit confrontation when He announced...Don't fear the one who has power over the body, fear Him who has the power over the second death.
So sometimes the Spirit comes out of us to knock something on the head. This was happening throughout the gospels through Jesus.
Why is this relevant? Well, do you remember how i shared with you how frustrating I find some of the meetings? And then I said that odd phrase...which you returned back at me.."I'll smash your face in brother".
Not very Christian is it?
But in the Spirit it means.....if there's a choice between Havant running a nicey nicey meeting....and proclaiming the Word of the Lord....
You know , I'll forgo the relationship.....and do the equivalent in the Spirit of smashing people's face in....in order to get the Word out...because the Word literally brings the atmosphere of heaven down. Now ofcourse, no one's face really gets smashed in...but it is the kind of Spirit violence that makes a choice according to the scriptures
Unless you hate your mother ,brother,sister.....then you can have no part of me. We have to allow all soul ties to shatter at the Cross in order that we are free to love Jesus....and here's the surprising bit.....in order that we are now free to love each other with renewed love. More about love in a bit.
30 years ago Jorge Pradas taught me that every meeting had a key or keys, that brought the Presence of God. As I was sharing with Nicholas and Pam this week I saw these weren't just keys.....they had the same role as in Genesis 1. They were the spoken Light that bound darkness, that annhilates it. The reason the Kingdom comes tangibly when we have found the keys to meetings is because we are literally BINDING a bit more darkness, and the kingdom comes in power. We are opening up a few Ancient Doors...to use Peter's picture....and the King of Glory comes in!!! It's not just any old meeting. It is the gathering of the saints to see a little bit of history accomplished. Exciting no?
Back to relationships etc....
I spent the best part of 10 years in Christian community. 6-7 years in round the clock 7 day a week , 2 meetings per day seeking God kind of fellowship. It was a forerunner to Key of David stuff but, 30 years ago. Heaven doesn't seemed to have changed too much though!!!!! It's still brilliant.
I was rather thinking that we were building relationships. I mean you could be forgiven for thinking if you spent this amount of hours with folk...that something was forming.
Then I was chucked out. And until Facebook, just about 100 percent never talked to me again. For 20 years.
Now Angelina's probably thinking...."Aha....that's why he's weird . He's been hurt badly and needs healing."
Maybe. But I think there's a better reason.
Jesus was 24hours a day, 7 days a week for 3 years with His disciples. How many were with Him at the Cross? Did the Father then pray for Jesus's hurts when He ascended into heaven? No....it says Jesus knew what was in them (the disciples). We as charismatics just wander around blissfully naive.
How many were there standing on the Day of Pentecost,braving every human authority, having been utterly utterly
broken by their previous inability. Yup. All 12. (well one was new).
John in his letter 1 John2:12ff speaks of 3 stages of maturity.
Acts 2 was when all 12 were ready. They were mature.
How's this affect things then? Well it means I wouldn't give a bunch of charismatics like Havant house room, save for sharing more about how we reach a trustier level of maturity. Until people really know that they know that they know they are in the third level.....I wouldn't trust them as far as turning on a lightbulb. They'll sell you down the river as fast as they can.
Until people are rooted and grounded in Christ, they are NOT rooted and grounded in Christ.. When they are, they'll tell you, in loud confession,Jericho style. Until then they are just like Israelites marching round and round the same mountain waiting to die in the wilderness.
Human love is meaningless, and when it's not convenient people will just......well.....hate you. You can say what you like about Havant....but they just are not all that different from Emsworth 30 years ago . I know you feel you are. But where is that confidence coming from....flesh.....or Christ Himself?
Christ's love really breaks out in a congregation full time....when people KNOW that they KNOW that they KNOW who they are. Until then....we're stuck with the "earnest" of our inheritance which is manifest in meetings....
but because saints don't know the third level tricks of living outside of meetings....it stops there...at the meeting house door.
_____________________________
Obviously, this assertion can be taken negatively...or people can
bolshily reply "I do know who I am. I have died with Christ.It
is now nolonger I who live but Christ who lives in me"....in which
case...I'll say...the provocation worked...we got a confession out of
you ....now the Holy Spirit will overshadow you and make it more
real. (Believe in your heart, confess with your mouth....and you will
get the salvation, the realisation.") If there's a quiet sullen response
I'll know my assertion rests.
__________________________
Christine and I made a decision after Table Talk.
We will only relate with people who want to relate with us. We'll let God bring people into our vicinity.
So far we have a handful of real friends, and we're watching God add. This will seem radical to a church based in its roots on Brethrenism, as was Emsworth.
Brethrenism is all about "the meeting" imperative which is placed above relationship.
Below this is another brother who has found the same.
Something profound went on in my insides in the last glory conference. Peter never meant Greg Haslam's visit to be a kick in the stomach. But ,to be precise his book cover on preaching, which featured my 70s pastor, had this effect.
What God was doing through it was showing me that as nice as Havant is....I should handle the church with a lot of wisdom, because my relationship, which I had taken to be deep, is really one degree only above meaningless, as characterised by this "international guest speaker's bookcover". I would love God to establish me here with Christine....but it has to be Him doing it.
I've "done" with 2ndlevel churches. They are dangerous places. Roll on the Book of Acts. Not the old Pentecostal Church model....but the real one in the Bible. http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2010/04/actual-acts-2-without-pentecostal-specs.html
Chris
The Church That Christ Built
Darin Hufford
I am coming to the conclusion that the Church that Christ is building is something quite different than what we have been taught.
I can recall studying the "5 fold ministry" while in Bible college. At the time we were taught that
those five ingredients are what make up the Church. Where Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers are functioning together; there is Church.
Rather than understand that particular verse to mean that these things will exist in the Body of Christ worldwide, we have foolishly interpreted it to mean they must exist "underneath one roof". I've even seen Churches advertise that they have the "5 fold ministry" in an effort to draw a larger congregation. There are articles and books written on whether or not these five things are working in today's Churches. When we build a new Church great time and attention is put into making sure that all the necessary ingredients are present when the doors open. The theory is that if we have an Apostle, a Prophet, an Evangelist, a Pastor and a teacher all within our congregation, we will have everything we need to "do Church". It's very much like opening your own McDonalds or Jack in the Box. Once everyone is in place, it's time for business. You need an owner, a manager, an assistant manager, a fleet of workers and you're good to go.
About two years ago I started taking a close look at my life and the lives of people around me.
Everyone I know has their own personal circle of friends they hang out with. It may consist of family members, people from work, school, internet or their neighborhood. Every person I know has their "Inner Circle". It usually consists of between 5 to 10 people. They have other friends as well, but those people wouldn't be considered "Inner Circle" friends.
To be an "Inner Circle" friend, there just has to be something that causes a mutual connection
between the two of you. There is no recipe for it, and one can never predict when it's going to
happen. You can't force it, plan it, cultivate it or even command it to take place; it literally blooms totally on its own. I have found that only certain people can "jell" together on a level of deepness that is not necessarily shared with others. It's almost as though they were made specifically with the other person in mind. In a realm only known to God Himself, these people fit together like pieces of a puzzle. In fact, I believe that they were brought together by the Holy Spirit. Only He sees the inner structure of each individual soul and then finds another soul to connect snug and tight. It's unexplainable and cannot be manufactured or re-created by human hands in a million years.
I have an "Inner Circle" of about 10 people. These are folks that I'm super close with. Our connection didn't happen in an effort to fulfill some Christian obligation to meet together and perform relationship once a week. We all connect because we fit. We knew it the moment we first met. I have many other friends that I absolutely adore and love spending time with. I'd even die for them. They mean the world to me; however they are not in my "Inner Circle."
My four year old daughter brought out a "Hello Kitty" 100 piece jigsaw puzzle the other day and
asked me to help her put it together. The box said that it was for ages 6 and up so I knew it wasn't going to come together without my help. As we were laying out the pieces and turning them all picture side up, my daughter started screaming with excitement. She had found two pieces that fit perfectly. The problem was that though they fit, they didn't go. The picture didn't come together. As I took a closer look at all the puzzle pieces I was surprised to find that many of them were the exact same shape. This is confusing for a four year old girl. All she is thinking about is getting the pieces to fit. She is too young to understand that there is a bigger picture being formed when all the pieces are in their proper place.
When mankind sets out to "build a Church" we are very much like my 4 year old daughter. We think that "fitting pieces together" is what it's all about. It's ironic that man would even set out to build Church when Christ Himself said "I will build my Church". Only He has the blueprints and the final picture. The most we can do to build a Church is snap two pieces together that fit, but have nothing to do with each other when it come to the big picture. That is exactly what I see happening in the Institutional churches across America. They try and try with all their might to dictate and orchestrate relationship on their terms, and they do it all in the Name of Jesus. It's no wonder the Body of Christ today resembles a Mr. Potato Head that was put together by a deaf, dumb, and blind 4 year old.
There's an arm sticking out of the eye socket, the lips are where the ears go and the eyes are on top
of the head. It's a mess.
If a "men's accountability group" is meeting every Tuesday night at 7:00, YOU NEED TO BE
THERE!!!!!! We are told that every man needs to come and connect with all the other men because they need that accountability. The problem is that the pieces don't go together just because they say so. A room full of men does not equal pieces that fit. Even if they are all Christian men who know the Lord well! You can manipulate and obligate these men to "go together" all you want, but it won't work. We have been taught if we are Christians, we should all fit together with that "Inner Circle" type of intimacy. WRONG!!! Jerry and Todd may both love the Lord and be brothers in His Name, but
neither of them were made to be put together. YES they are a part of the same picture, but they
were never intended to connect with an "Inner Circle" connection.
The sad thing is that Jerry is told over and over by his group leader or his Pastor that he needs to connect with Todd out of Christian love. So Jerry tries with all his heart to make that connection. He secretly beats himself up and feels condemned because it's just not happening. He starts to feel rebellious, and eventually wonders if he has the Love of God in him at all. Each week he reluctantly shows up to the men's meeting and makes small talk while glancing at his watch and wishing he was somewhere else. All the while, his leader keeps complaining to the group because he doesn't see the men connecting and talking as deeply as he thinks they should. (This is the story of almost every men's meeting in America) Perhaps the most disturbing thing I've seen in institutional settings is when people do find authentic connection with certain individuals in their Church and it is excused and labeled as a "click." People are made to feel like they are doing something wrong when these real connections happen and many times the leadership does whatever they can to dissolve any "Christian clicks" that have formed in their congregation. How sad.
I honestly think we try to "build the Church" because when push comes to shove; we really don't believe there is a Jesus Christ at all. We can't see Him with our eyes and we can't hear Him with our
ears, so it makes it pretty difficult to just sit back and let Him build the Church. We jump in and do it
because we don't believe in Him. Think about it. I am also convinced that this is why we start
"Discipleship Groups" in our Churches. We honestly don't believe there is a Jesus. We feel that it's
our job to disciple young Christians instead of just turning them over to Christ. I thought He wanted us to make "Disciples of Christ"? Why then are we intent on making people our disciples? Where in the Bible does it say that WE are supposed to disciple people? We do this because we don't believe there IS a Jesus.
If I disciple Jim and Jim disciples Tony and Tony disciples Greg and Greg disciples Brian; who disciples
me? Who disciples the guy who disciples me?? Eventually won't it lead to Christ? Can't we just go
directly to Him or do we really need another mediator? (More on this subject at another time)
So where is the Church that Christ is building???
It's your "Inner Circle" of friends. He is the one who brought you together. Not only do you "fit" with these people but you "go together" with them. You fit together in the big picture!!! Your close friends ARE the Church that Christ built. If you look within your "Inner Circle" you will find diverse personalities. One has the personality of an Apostle, one is a Prophet, one is an Evangelist, one is a Pastor and one is a Teacher. Everyone I know has the 5 fold ministry built into their "Inner Circle" of friends!
We spend hours trying to pour our hearts into fitting pieces together that have nothing to do with the original blueprints. We focus our time and attention on building the synthetic church while we neglect the actual Church that He as already built into our lives. I hear people say to me that they need to "go to Church" because they need to find Christian people to connect with.
My advice to them is that they spend their time deepening the connections they already have in their life. I believe that everything we need exists within our "Inner Circle" of friends. All we need to do is press in even deeper to those people that God has built into our lives. Those are the relationships that came from Heaven. Those are the relationships we need to spend our time and focus on. Those relationships ARE the Church that Christ built!
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Christine's comment about Darin's post is valid. It's not either /or. Circle of friends/local church.My comment would be however, Darin's post clearly addresses what was occurring in the original discipleship group...namely Jesus and the 12. It was organic church. And this foundation BECAME what we now know as the church. How the disciples originally felt about each other would be a good question in heaven , as Jesus gradually by the Spirit fingered each. The "flow was happening around Jesus, how long a "flow" developed between them as individuals we are not told.ConfusionRemember, the dichotomy between circle of friends/present day church exists because of the confusion caused by our churches....not Darin's article.Our present day churches - even good 2ndlevel ones - do not have Christ as their foundation, though some get pretty close. Thirdlevel churches have the distinctive of understanding the Genesis 3 problem of the independent self and are run* by people who know within them "they have died with Christ and now live by the faith of the Son of God." Run * is a Key of David word, meaning not the current form of run _ which means "lead","make things happen", "pull strings", but instead it means "give the rhema current Word" and leave the meeting to fly. To find the Spirit key or keys, which opens some more "Ancient Doors" and the King Himself comes in...and He doesn't need "running" thank you very much.
