Monday 26 October 2009

Corinthian Elders Set in Context - Part One - A history of some of the Melchizedek Order since the 1960s

The contents of this post have been removed to make file storage room
for the new reworked animations introducing :

The New Book by Jack Fortenberry: Corinthian Elders

A link will be posted from here to the new post when the four animations are fully uploaded.

Saturday 24 October 2009

Woody Allen meets Billy Graham

I don't think many of us in the UK realise that this happened.
It is very interesting to see how they interact.


Friday 23 October 2009

David Hathaway's October Update

Dear Workers together in Christ
'Never in the whole history of the nation have so many people ever gathered to hear the Gospel!'
See what your giving has accomplished! I have just returnedfrom the Crusade in Vilnius, Lithuania, (population 3.6 million), a recent member of the European Union, a member of NATO, and the southernmost of the three Baltic states. Its capital city, Vilnius, is the European Capital of Culture this year and Lithuania also celebrates 1000 years since the Gospel first came to this nation.
We took and filled the largest indoor arena in the Baltics — more than 10,000 attended each night – no empty seats — at least 80%a being unbelievers, who responded in their thousands every night to the powerful preaching of the Gospel. Nationwide advm-tising -loads from
, brought in more than 140 bus-loads across the nation — the result — the whole nation was shaken, even Government members attended!
Preparation began one year ago, involving the whole nation and every denominational group, including the Catholics who chose the theme, 'Gospel Celebration', as the whole nation was celebrating 1000 years of Christianity. Representatives went into every town, every village, to tell the churches to bring unbelievers into the meetings. The secular media carried our advertising and wrote positively in anticipation even before the event. The campaign was combined with a great humanitarian aid programme to relieve the distress caused by the catastrophic financial situation in Lithuania, which now has a huge burden of financial debt to the European Union.
After we left, over 30 separate Alpha Courses were started in Vilnius alone to take care of the new believers! A local pastor told us, 'Never in the whole history of Lithuania have so many people ever gathered to hear the Gospel! We have been waiting and praying 20 years for this.'
Michael Wieteska (pastor of a large Church in Geneva), wrote:
'The three days of evangelism in Vilnius, Lithuania, which /attended, were 'a spectacular success'— the finest preparation and presentation combined with the greatest power of God, each night groups of top singers continued to the later hours, with thousands staying on to enjoy what was doubtlessly the greatest all-round Gospel event Continental Europe has ever witnessed. On Friday night the emphasis was on youth; Saturday night saw vibrant modern Gospel music, with a star performer backed by a truly great choir group; while on the final night the Gospel Musical performed by leading Lithuanian opera singers, was so powerful you did not need to understand Lithuanian to be moved to tears! It was as though we were in a top London or New York theatre, so great were the sets, so stupendous the lighting, so polished the
presentation. Oh yes, and let us not forget the hundreds of orphans bussed in on Sunday afternoon, for their own little Disneyland!
This crusade has set a groundbreaking new level of overall ministry: I have never witnessed anything like it. The team David put together to prepare it also deserve special commendation for this truly outstanding and seamless crusade – and / and my wife were highly privileged to be a very small part of it, If any evangelistic organisation in the world deserves support for its work in Russia and Europe, in terms of effectiveness and value for money, it is surely the Eurovision Crusade team of David Hathaway!
We must recognise that moving back into Europe with the major crusade in Tallinn last year was the breakthrough, but this event in Vilnius last week was far greater, confirming that God is now moving powerfully with the Holy Spirit into Western Europe. it confirms the vision God gave me 20 years ago – fulfilling the prophecy of Hudson Taylor.
Vilnius is clear evidence that, despite the sceptics, large scale evangelism is effective and must be the way to reach un-evangelised Europe. Chris's note : in all that God is saying about sowing the Word, letting it grow in local bodies,which grow strong,becoming hubs of outreach in their localities,where believers are encouraged to grow to full stature and become 100fold fruit all of this , DO NOT FORGET, Jesus Himself worked at many levels, and one level was speaking to crowds who assembled to hear Him. Mass seed sowing is not dead. In time to come, platforms will have more than one anointed man or woman though. In these days they are in short supply.But they are growing in number.

But we need individuals, pastors and churches to mobilise support. Vilnius only succeeded because every church, every denomination supported us. We recognise that we cannot do it alone. Yes we went over budget, overspent and have had to borrow money to pay the bills – but the result more than justified it. Now we are crying out to the Lord for more businessmen, pastors and churches to be willing to stand with us to meet the enormous financial costs involved. – And to see what God can do!
I know that you as our loyal supporters are giving sacrificially everything you can to help – but now this ministry must be recognised nationally and internationally for the results only God can give, because now we intend to continue moving as the Spirit leads us across into Europe. We are seeking God's plan and wisdom. In addition to East Europe, France and Spain are very much on my heart – especially France. We could even be in Britain in two/three years -- if the British churches would co-operate! Please join me in praying that nothing, neither lack of finance nor lack of interest on behalf of Christians will stop the ticlai wave – this tsunami of Holy Ghost power which has already been released! We still need E500,000 this year! – But our God is able! – David and the Trustees are holding a special day of prayer and fasting on Tuesday 27 October – if you are able, please join in prayer and faith that God will meet every financial need – and give the clear strategy for expanding the evangelism in 2010!
Thank you in Jesus' Name!

Wednesday 21 October 2009

The Three Stages of Self

Merrill Thompson - Facebook - Yesterday at 14:43
We have , in fact, to pass through three phases in our attitude towards and understanding of ourselves. We start life by a false attempt at self- appreciation. We try to make out we are all right. "going about to establish our own righteousness", the bible calls it. That finishes when we become honest about ourselves in the sight of God, and our repentance toward God and faith toward toward our Lord Jesus Christ is an end to our false self-appreciation.

This is followed by often a long period of self-depreciation.

As new-born Christians, we are making the discovery that it is not in redeemed self, any more than it was in unredeemed self, to be what we should be. So we are much more conscious of our failings, our inadequate human selves, than we are of Christ in us.

We condemn ourselves, we stress our weaknesses, we speak of our hunger and need, our inadequate love for God, our sins. We say that if God does anything with our lives, it is in spite of us (where in fact it is because of us), and so forth. This is the phase of temporary self-depreciation, necessary for us to learn the truth about ourselves, but only temporary.
The Three Stages of Grubb


From false self-appreciation, through tempory self- depreciation, to true self- appreciation.

That is when in the union we have found forever we are only we the vessels that contain God: but we are vessels, and more, we are vessel who are really persons; and our humanity is now the self-expression of the Living God. We are the light of the world. We are eternal love in action. The center of our inner consciousness has moved over from self-depreciation to God- appreciation and thus to self-appreciation. It is a signproof that we have not life yet in gear, we have yet to come full circle, when our normal responses in situations are to emphasize our weakness rather than our ability. "I can do all things," said Paul. "We are more than conquerors, " said Paul again. We are well able to overcome it," said Caleb. "I am full of power," said Micah. But in each case they added that it was "through Christ" , or "by the Spirit of the Lord", or some such statement. However, the primary emphasis was not on Him in them, but on themselves, and they "able ministers of the new covenant"-through Him. Their emphasis was not on their weakness but on their strength-by Him. THIS IS THE TRUE SELF-AFFIRMATION...taken from The Spontaneous You by Norman Grubb

Monday 19 October 2009

Spiritual Sight,Saving Faith and the Single Eye

Spiritual Sight and Saving Faith
Let's return to Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus to further comprehend the principle of Spiritual Sight and its effect on every area of our Christian lives. After telling Nicodemus that he could neither see nor enter the kingdom without spiritual birth and spiritual sight, Jesus directed his attention to the entrance of the kingdom. "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:14-15).
The Son of Man must be lifted up in the same manner as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness. In Numbers 21:6-9, we read how God sent fiery serpents into the camp of Israel because of their rebellion. Many were bitten and died. Israel repented and asked Moses to pray to Yahweh to remove the serpents. Moses prayed and God answered, "Make you a fiery serpent, and set it on a standard: and it shall happen, that everyone, who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live (21:8) Moses did as the Lord commanded him. He "made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived" (Numbers 21:9 NKJV).
In comparing John 3:14-15 with Numbers 21:6-9, we see that looking and believing are the same thing. The act of looking at the Old Testament bronze serpent prefigured New Covenant belief in Christ. In this instance, seeing is believing. Brilliantly assessing the problem healed no one. A different seeing was required, the kind of seeing that the Lord spoke of when He said, "They shall look upon me whom they have pierced . . ." (Zechariah 12:10).
How critical is this seeing?
Paul wrote to the Galatian believers who were returning to the bondage of law-keeping, "Foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you not to obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly set forth among you as crucified?" (Galatians 3:1). The New Living Translation reads, "You used to see the meaning of Jesus Christ's death as clearly as though I had shown you a signboard with a picture of Christ dying on the cross." The Galatian believers had lost sight of the lifted up Christ. They used to see but now they had lost faith and were returning to blind legalism. We cannot be drawn unto Christ and made whole unless He is lifted up and seen. When I, George, was growing up as a child I heard the story of Jesus every Sunday, but I did not truly see Him. He was little more than a cutout on a flannel graph or a story in an old leather-bound book. This Sunday school knowledge of Him did not keep me from setting out on a life of alcohol, drugs and every other vice imaginable. One day the Father revealed His Son to me by His Spirit! I saw my true condition upon the backdrop of His glory. I felt like Isaiah must have felt after seeing the Lord high and lifted up, "Woe is me! For I am undone, because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips." Why this new perspective? "My eyes have seen the King." (Isaiah 6: 1-5). When he saw who Jesus really was, that rough fisherman Peter responded, "Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, Lord" (Luke 5:8).
Religious people made sure I knew I was a sinner. That didn't bring the grace I needed to change. Nothing short of seeing Jesus lifted up, by the Spirit, could reprove me of sin and nothing but being drawn to Him by that same Spirit could deliver me from sin's dominion. Everyone who truly looks on Him will be drawn to Him. He is himself the transforming power, or as one brother so graphically put it, "Jesus is the Change Agent." He is the resurrection and the Life! Christ has been made unto us redemption but He has also been made our sanctification ( 1 Corinthians 1:30). We are changed, from glory to glory as we with open faces continue to behold His glory (2 Corinthians 3:18). Both the forgiveness of sins and the power to live righteously begin with spiritual sight...George Davis & Michael Clark


The Way of Release Norman P. Grubb (the single eye}

We have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us" - 2 Corinthians 4:7.The illustration that settled me into seeing my proper place as a human was the discovery that several times in the Scriptures we are called "vessels." A vessel is there only to contain. It does not become what it contains. The cup does not become the coffee, nor the coffee the cup. That ray of light shot into me. In other words, God was saying, "Stop fussing about your human self, where you fail and where you need improvement. Drop that whole false idea. Vessels don't improve, they just contain. Now turn your attention away from what you are as a vessel - or think you should be. With a single eye, turn your full attention on Me, the One the vessel contains." That was enough to move me on to my crisis leap - into the reality of Galatians 2:20, which is now my favorite verse of Scripture: "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me."This was the first revelation of the Spirit (and it has to be revealed by the Spirit) that I am just the container. It was the beginning of what has never left me since and has so greatly expanded.- Yes, I Am Norman Grubb

A Study on The Three Levels of Maturity - Sylvia Pearce,It's original context and its current local church context

My thanks go to Merrill Thompson who has stored all these excerpts over years. This is his Facebook profile if people want more material, and this is how the container looks now.

Below is an MS DOS version, or rather dry left-brain code of the three levels of maturity. By that I mean, the Windows version is to be us! We are the Living letters that Paul writes about in 2 Corinthians 3 This is not to be disparaging about the format below. As we meditate on it it is actually packed with life.

Jesus said the time would come when we would worship "neither on this mountain nor at Jerusalem" . He then went onto say "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Here is an amazing thing when you think about the 3 years Jesus was with His disciples.
Jesus had laid His glory aside. He was functioning purely as we are meant to function. In His case as a container for the Life of the Father within Him. He had also been baptised in the Spirit when He was water baptised. But his disciples were not born again. Not as we know it now. He had not yet breathed His life into them. This could only happen after His body death at Calvary. And the disciples had certainly not yet been baptised with the Spirit. This happened to them some ten days after Jesus returned to His Father at His ascension, to be an exact prophetic fulfilment of the Jewish Feast of Pentecost : The First harvest.

Now Jesus was permitted to endow the disciples with a certain measure of the power of the Holy Spirit that was upon Him. With this power they were sent out to heal, perform miracles and proclaim that the Kingdom had come!
Yet , other than this, Jesus was transplanting His life into his twelve disciples by the power of the Word alone. He did not sit down and read books to them. They did not have His indwelling life that came later. They had received no overpowering release of the Spirit upon them in the form of a baptism in the Spirit experience, which is the believer's rightful due now since Acts 2. It is the Father's good pleasure to give you His Spirit without measure. And just pray that your body container can stand it!!!!
Yet during these three years....none of this. But just by living with Jesus. By His Spirit -filled Word alone penetrating their being, in the form of stories, in the form of timely rebuke, in the form of encouragement, in the form of being eyewitnesses to extraordinary miracles, in the form of learning Jesus pace of life in the Holy Spirit.Also, and this is not talked about much in Zerubbabel quarters, Hebrews 5:7, 7During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered.....

He did not get a soft ride. Because He was the Son.
So , how "grace" people expect to glide into this grace walk as though it is a matter of believing yourself into a few scriptures.And that's it.
John Clarke (The Move) described it like this: "Some days will find you doubled up on the floor in agony. It is like the verse in Revelation which talks about the Word being sweet to the taste when you first hear it, but round about the time it settles on your stomach, it becomes a bitter thing, as the literal Word of God takes hold of your insides and changes you from within out."
Not for nothing the references to the labour of childbirth in scriptures.

This is the birth of the New Covenant in His people.

Beforehand you sing songs about it.

You talk about it in meetings,

You use the phrase in the Lord's Supper. "This is the blood
of my new Covenant."

But one has been written in you. Across your insides.

And you become a living letter to others.
If Jesus then, within three years, by obeying the exact instructions of the Father, by just speaking Word, could move twelve men spiritually from child stage, through young man stage to Fatherhood stage, as expressed in Acts.....

Now the Holy Spirit has been outpoured

Now a peculiar vessel for the maturation of individuals has been birthed :The Living breathing Corporate Body of Christ-

How is it people are still taking 70 years to go through the growth stages?
Well. The meaning of the word "Satan " is opposer.

Satan is opposing the birth of this Manchild in the earth.

This corporate expression of Living letters.

Churches neither know the three stages. Or if they know it, it is mere head knowledge.
It's like reading this wonderful teaching script below....which is the legal language of all our inheritance in the Kingdom.....but it only then remains stored in the left-brain.
We have to eat it. Preferably along with the rest of the local family.
Here is some more on the functioning of the local New Covenant Church.
Chances are, many of you have not been able to experience this so far.

It's not taught in seminaries.
It's not clearly taught by powerful ministries like Morris Cerullo.
It's not taught clearly in Pentecostal churches.
Although denominational churches are starting along the path, having taken on board the Alpha courses, chances are they are not mature in this yet.
This is learned in the Spirit. In relationship with Jesus. Who ,by the way, is still alive! And is currently teaching those who will listen, all over the world, how He wants church done.

The importance of Corinthian Elders by Jack Fortenberry is that how we do leadership is totally rewritten. I used the phrase earlier "glided into". Well instead of gliding into Spirit stuff regarding leadership, all we've succeeded in doing is "gliding into" human tradition, human hand me downs
of what it is to lead. Most of this comes straight out of a skewed pyramid understanding of authority, which comes from the Fall.
Neither is it anarchy!
No leadership in the Kingdom is primarily relationship.
In just the same way that our first experience of it, for good and bad....came through our parents. And just as a good parent is after the maturation of their kids, such that they can go off and run successful independent lives, and pass this onto their kids.....this is actually the Kingdom way of reproducing Christ's Life in our form.

It is no coincidence that coupled with a new wave of the revelation of the Father, which came through what was popularised as the Toronto Blessing in 1994 through the Airport Vineyard Church, but what was always from the Kingdom perspective what it said on the tin :"The Father's Blessing"....well it is no coincidence that coupled with this revelation comes a totally but totally new perspective on how leadership works in the Kingdom. I would firmly counsel everybody to get this book. And no. There is stuff in this book that you will have heard from no one else. So, leadership covered, I want to give a potted version of the local church.
There is transformational power in the local church.
  • When working properly, people will be laying the foundations of our new life listed in Sylvia's study below.
  • The church will know how to enter the Living Presence of God in their worship. More and more of the congregation will be knowing the secrets of how you live there anyway.
  • Learning how you enter a real experience of the Holiest Place to respond to the Holy Spirit as a gathering as He takes you all still deeper (recent examples The New York meetings with Heidi Baker, The Key of David meetings here in Havant, many soaking meetings all over the world
  • All the gifts of the Holy Spirit will be increasingly manifest, through the youngest believer to the most mature. Greater care, and love and respect will actually be invested on the younger members, as Paul writes in his Corinthian letter.
  • Regular breakthoughs manifest in believer's lives
  • The quickest way to learn how to function from the new Life within you
  • All believers regularly prophesying and praying into other believer's lives
  • A place where you can bring unbelievers who are hungry
  • The Body knows how to bring itself forth. The Holy Spirit directs what needs addressing ,when, in a spirit of love, humility, and godly grace authority
  • caring for one another's practical needs
  • addressing local problems and needs, but not from a basis of those needs - that is humanitarianism - but based on the timing ,instruction and Word of the Lord.
  • a place of training of the Authority of the believer. (testimony of prophetic faith declarations which resolved issues within hours/days months - the exposure of the Yorkshire Ripper (hours), the healing of Tony Fitgerald's wife 50 miles away in a hospital bed(same instant), the healing of an all but paralysed girl in the church such that she married and went to Barcelona to live (months), the healing of a son, then his father of a strain of leukaemia(weeks)
  • learning how to be Christ to each other
  • learning 3rd level laying down of your life to bring forth life in others.
  • learning how to call on the Lord together. (See Hebrews 5:7 above)We learned much from the Argentinians who had been battle hardened in the many and various extreme financial recessions through the last decades in Argentina
  • learn what it is when the tangible Presence of the glory falls. To rest still in this Presence for minutes /hours together. In the gospels we have examples when a particular Presence came down. For example the phrase"the Lord's Presence was there to heal"

If your local church is not like this, this is our birthright, and we are to give the Lord no rest until this pattern is everywhere in the earth. THIS IS NORMALITY for the believer.

The Three Levels of Maturity
Sylvia Pearce

I John 2:12-14
Little Children
“ I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for His name sake.”
“ I write unto you, little children, because you have known the Father.”
Why do we need our sins forgiven? And how can we know the Father?
The Fall Of Man.
Gen 3:1-15
Result Of The fall:
John 3:19-21-“Light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light.”
Romans 3:10-18-“There is none good, no not one.”
Eph. 2:1-3 “Dead in trespasses and sins,” “the spirit that works in the children of disobedience” and “they were by nature children of wrath.”
Acts 13:46-“Judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life.”
I John 3:10-“Children of the devil.”
John 8:44- “you are of your father the devil.”
Rom. 6:17-“Slaves of sin.”
I Peter 3:19-“Spirits in prison.”
Romans 9:23-“Vessels of wrath.”
Romans 5:12-“Death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.”
The Provision For Our Sins Through Christ’s Subsitutionary Death.
John 3:16-“For God so loved the world that he sent His only begotten Son.”
II Cor. 5:19-“To wit, that God was in Christ Jesus reconciling the world unto Himself.”
Col. 1:14-“Through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins.”
Romans 3:24-25-“Justified freely by his grace, through faith in his blood.”
I Peter 1:18-20-“Redeemed by the precious blood of Christ.”
Heb. 10:12-“One sacrifice for sins forever.”
How is Christ Made Mine?
John 1:12-“As many as receive Him to them gave he power to become the sons of God.”
Acts 16:31-“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved.”
Titus 3:15-“Not by works of righteousness which I have done but according His mercy He saved me.”
Romans 3:24-“Being justified freely by His grace through Christ’s redemption.”
Romans 3:28-“A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
Eph. 2:8-9-“For by grace you are saved, through faith.”
Romans 10:9-“Confess with your mouth, and believe in your heart, you shall be saved.”
How Can I Have The Assurance Of My Salvation?
Hebrews 4:9-10-“There remains a rest, labor to enter in.”
Hebrews 11:6-“For without faith it is impossible to please God.”
The Three Levels of Maturity
I John 2:12-14
Young Men
“I write unto you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one.”
“I have written unto you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the wicked one.”
How do we overcome the wicked one? Our sins are forgiven, but how about victory over sin, Satan, the works of the flesh, and the world?
Victory And Power In Daily Living
Romans 5:10-We are reconciled to God, by His death, but saved daily by His life.
Eph. 3:19-“That you might be filled with all the fullness of God.”
I Cor. 2:10-“That we might know the deep things of God.”
Eph. 1:18-“That you might know the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints.”
II Cor 9:8-“God makes all grace abound towards you that we might have all sufficiency in all things.”
The Provision For Daily Living Is Through The Body Death Of The Cross
Romans 6:6-“The old man is crucified with Christ.”
Galatians 2:20-“I am crucified with Christ, I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.”
II Cor. 5:21-“Christ was made sin, that we might be made His righteousness.”
Romans 6:2-“We are dead to sin.”
Colossians. 2:11-“We are circumcised with Christ, putting off the body of sins.”
Romans 6:3-“We are baptized into His death.”
2 Peter 8:1-“We are partakers of the divine nature.”
Colossians 1:22-“In the body of His flesh to present you holy, and unblameable.”
Hebrews 10:10-“We are sanctified through offering of the body of Christ.”
Hebrews 10:14-“By one offering He hath perfected forever them who are sanctified.”
The Law, Not Sin, The Problem
Romans 7:4-“You also have become dead to the law by the body of Christ.”
Romans 6:7-“He that is dead is freed from sin.”
Romans 6:14-“Sin shall not have dominion over you for you are under grace.”
I Cor. 15:56-“The power of sin is the law.”
How Does This Work Out As Our Experience?
Romans 7:15-“For that which I do I allow not: for what I would that do I not; but what I hate, that I do.”
Romans 7:24-“O wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Why Do We Experience the Bondages and Defeats of Romans 7?
Because not having completely learned, or easily forgetting, the basic helplessness of self, and its only function to be the container of the Spirit, we are constantly assaulted by temptation to be something or do something or not do something. Obey those commands pray more, give more witness more, be more patient, don’t lose your temper, get rid of those evil thoughts, struggle against your lusts, and so on.
The human being is only a receiver and not a producer of righteousness.
John 15:1-You are the branch, not the vine.
Romans 9:22-We are vessels of mercy, but formally vessels of wrath, but always vessels.
I Cor. 6:19-“You are the temple of the living God.”
Romans 6:17-You are slaves of righteousness, formally slaves of sin.
Romans 6:7-“He that is dead is freed from sin.”
The Human Being Has Never Been An Independent Self.
I John 4:6-“He that is in this world, and He that is in us.”
I John 4:6-“Spirit of truth, and Spirit of error.”
I John 3:10-“Child of the devil, child of God.”
Galatians 2:20-“I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me.”
Romans 7:17-“It is not I, but sin that dwelleth in me.”
The Leap Of Faith
Colossians 3:3-4-“Christ, who is my life.”
Galatians 5:24-“In Christ we have crucified the flesh.”
Romans 6:6-“The Old self is crucified with Christ.”
Colossians 3:9 ; Eph. 22-24-“You have put off the old man with His deeds.”
Colossians 3:10-You have put on the new man which is renewed with a new mind.
Soul and Spirit Differences
I Thes. 5:23-“Sanctify your spirit, soul and body.”
Matt. 11:28-29-“There is a rest for our souls.”
Hebrews 4:13-“Sabbath rest for the people of God.”
Hebrews 4:13-“Diving soul from Spirit, joints and marrow, thoughts and intents.”
The School of Faith
Hebrews 11:6-“For with faith it is impossible to please God.”
Mark 11:22-“Have the faith of God, say unto this mountain be thou removed and cast into the sea. And whatsoever you say, you shall have.”
Romans 4:17-“Call the things that be not as though they are.”
( Nothing in this life is yours)
Luke 14:26-27—“Hate not his father, mother, wife, children, brethren & his own life.”
Genesis 22:2-“Take thy son, thine only son Isaac, & offer him there a burnt-offering.”
The Life Of Faith
Romans 4:20-“Abraham staggered not at the promises of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what He had promised He was able also to perform.”
Hebrews 11-The great heroes of faith.
The Three Levels of Maturity
I John 2:12-14
“I have written unto you, Fathers, because you have know Him, that is from the beginning.” Our life is poured out for others.
John 21:18-“Another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou would not.”
Credentials of an Apostle
John 10:17-18-“Why does the Father love me?” “Because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.” “I have power to lay it down and I have power to take it up again.”
Hebrews 5:14-“He that is full of age has their senses exercised to discern good and evil.”
I Corinthians 4:9-15-“God has set for the Apostles as last as it were appointed to death,” “We are fools for Christ sake, but you are wise, we are weak, we are despised,” “Being reviled, we bless, being persecuted we suffer it, being defamed, we retreat.” “We are made the filth of the world, and the off scouring of all things.”
II Corinthians 1:5-“For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us,”
Works of an Father/Apostle
Ezek. 22:30-“I sought for a man to stand in the gap.”
Colossians 1:24-“I fill up that which is behind of the sufferings of Christ.”
Galatians 6:2-“Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.”
The Call Of An Apostle/Intercessor
Don’t look for your intercession, and when it comes you won’t want it.
Jesus said “Take this cup from me.”
Jonah 1:2-“Arise go to Nineveh,”
Exodus 3:10-“I will send thee unto Pharaoh”
Isa. 6:9-“Go, and tell this people.”
John 1:6-“There is a man sent from God.”
The Cost of an Intercessor
Isa. 54:4-“He bore our grief, and carried our sorrows.”
Isa. 53:12-“He has poured out his soul unto death.”
II Corinthians 1:9-“We have the sentence of death in ourselves.”
II Corinthians 4:8-12-“We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed: we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus might be made manifest in my mortal flesh.”
II Corinthians 4:11-“For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
The Completion and Fruit Bearing Of An Intercessor
II Corinthians 4:11b-“Death works in us, but life works in you.”
John 12:24-“If the seed die, it brings forth much fruit.”
John 15:16-“He has chosen you to bring forth fruit and that your fruit should remain.”
Hebrew 2:10-“Bring many sons to glory”
Little Children,
Young Men,

Thursday 15 October 2009

The Land of the "Very Good"

This is an article from Daniel Yordy's blog, but written by Bonnie Morris. I think you will like it.
Every morning at our home, we study the scriptures for awhile. We had been spending a lot of time in Genesis 1 and 2 and one day I heard the Spirit of God say, “live in the land of the very good”.
We reasoned, “hmm, Genesis 1 says God saw everything he had created and made and it was very good. So we began to look at this land. There is no negative there. There is no evil there. Everything is just “very good”! We thought, “Whew!... And this is where he wants us to live.”
We saw that this certainly would be life. If we could live out of this place, we would be living out from the flow of Him. It wouldn’t be a geographical or astral location. It is a sphere of heavenly consciousness and what we realized was that it is everywhere, all around us. This would be heaven if we could walk there! This would be the land of the “very good”. We could see this is where we had already gotten our citizenship papers. Being born from above; it is our birth right.
We continued to press into this truth; the scripture says that we are seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Now, we know we are not physically seated there, but could we live there, in the heavenly realm, the realm of Spirit called the land of the “very good”? It is where Jesus is! Are we where Jesus is? He who is joined to the Lord is one Spirit. Can we live far above all principalities and powers where Jesus is? We know we have temporarily accessed that place. Anyone who has, knows it is far more real than any earthly place our physical feet have touched. But, could we dwell there! Could we actually do this?
We further understood that the scriptures tell us to rejoice ye heavens and ye that “dwell” in them. This is our dwelling place, the land of the very good!
With the world in such chaos, this became very comforting to us. We began to apply the command to live in the land of the very good. We learned that Revelation speaks of those that dwell upon the earth and what happens to them. Those who dwell in the heavens are saved from the hour of temptation. It says that this hour will come upon all the world and those that “dwell” upon the earth. We will not someday be physically raptured out of this earth, we are raptured (caught up) when we live in the land of the “very good”. We are safe inside the ark. There are no negatives in this realm; no condemnation; no worry and no thought of self. Only very good!
We thus concluded that we did not want to “dwell” any longer upon the earth. This is a carnally minded realm and we wanted to obey the voice of God to: “Live in the land of the very good”! This is His realm, the realm of the mind of Christ.
We are challenged daily to live in this realm; the land of the “very good”! Do we always live there? This is our hope; the heavens will one day open to us and not be shut again. But as we walk more and more in the light of that day, we have sometimes pondered, why are we not upset?! In the face of the horrific times we live in; in the face of so many needs not only in the world, but amongst those of our own families and friends, what is it we have found that has allowed us to walk in a place of continued peace and rest?.
It is the land of the “very good”.

Fall on the Rock

There is a very good analysis of Jesus' phrase, with Bible examples here on the Kingdom Power on the Streets blog by Ryan Lawson.

Wednesday 14 October 2009

The Absolute Profundity of the Blood, Cross, and Resurrection of Christ: Part 3

The Absolute Profundity of the Blood, Cross, and Resurrection of Christ: Part 3

From: Daniel Yordy
I chose these words as a title to emphasize how we have limited the reality of the blood, cross, and resurrection of Jesus as they work in our lives and in creation. 'Profundity' means 'depth' or 'extent'; 'absolute' means that there is no limit to what the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus has already accomplished.
Of these three, the cross is a negative, that is, it brings an end to something. The blood, while positive (the life is in the blood), makes the payment against all debt owed. The blood redeems us. But the resurrection is where we live!
These things cannot be theology for us: "Sounds nice - reality in heaven." No, these things have already changed all reality. It is our minds, our thinking, that must now change to fit what is.

The Resurrection

Christian thinking has focused much more on the cross of Jesus applied to our lives rather than the resurrection.
Consider death. When a person dies, you briefly honor the life of the person and then quickly get the corpse into the ground. From then on you no longer think about that which is dead. Yes, you remember the person as they were, but not the corpse. You don't spend time thinking about what is the present state of rot and decay. That which is dead is over with; it occupies no concern whatsoever.
Consider life. My nine-year-old son is alive! Which is an understatement. He has all the energy and drive and love of "wind in the hair" and chasing balls down a field that a young boy can have. Containing and directing the life that is inside of him is a full-time job.
Paul says, "You are dead." He says, "Consider yourself to be dead indeed to sin."
It's over with. It's buried. It's corrupt and decayed. Yet we have thought that to be good Christians we needed to labor over the death as if it is not actually dead, but dying. And so with our theology, we have given life to a corpse and raised it to the level of concern that a normal person reserves to the living.
I watched a British detective show recently that casts Christians in an incorrect light; real weirdo's who have nothing real or meaningful to contribute. One of the characters, in dealing with a murder inside a church, looked at all the emblems of Christianity around him and said, "What a death cult!" He was not wrong.
God said, "You are dead." But we insist that God is wrong and that what He should have said was, "You must die." And by doing so we give the essence of 'life' to a corpse instead of leaving it in the grave where it belongs.
That which needed to die is dead.
But when I quoted Paul above, I left off the most important parts of these statements. Paul says, "You are dead, and now Christ is your life." He says, "Consider yourself to be dead indeed to sin, but consider yourself (even more) to be ALIVE unto God." (I paraphrase.)
The life of Jesus inside of us is all that there is. And that life works its way through every part of our humanity, right now. Jesus is alive as me!
The resurrection is the most profound thing in the universe. It has already swallowed up everything. It is all there is in us. I am alive unto God! I am alive unto God! It is life that consumes us, that takes our focus and energy and time.
God left us in these weak human frames because that was His purpose from the beginning. He wanted to reveal His Son in the midst of and out from human weakness. The fall of Adam changed nothing of God's purpose. You, as you are right now, are God's original intent apart from the fall of Adam. He wants you to know weakness, that the power of Christ might be revealed first to you as you and then through you as a tender touch in a weary place, as a cup of cold water to him who is thirsty.
This is the glory of God, as we are right now.
The Christian who says, "But I am a sinner, I sin," is openly working against God's intent in their lives.
Forget about death, except that we let it be complete in our understanding. I loved my father, but I do not spend any time or energy considering the present state of his corpse. Yes, I know where it is and I know that it is dead. And there I leave it. It is finished.
But my living son consumes much thought and energy (mostly from his mother).
We do not walk with the consciousness of sin or of Adam, anymore than I walk in the remembering of the state of my father's corpse. I use that graphic image to get across the clear picture of truth. Christianity is a death cult only by the deceit of our enemy. Christ is life.
But we boast in our weaknesses, our infirmities, our limitations and lacks, we BOAST in these things, because this is God's glory and intent. Not that we spend undue time considering our weakness, but we glory in the power of Christ revealed in us as weak humans.
And that leaves us free to be that kind touch, that cup of living water, that is Christ revealed through us.
It is so easy for our human minds to picture and illustrate and think about death, but for some strange reason, life is not quite so easy to grasp. The absolute profundity of the resurrection life of Christ inside of us and throughout all creation!
The life that fills me right now is the essence of the Father from out of His innermost heart.
The life that fills me right now is actually a greater measure than the life that filled Mary's womb.
When some Greeks wanted to see Jesus, He ignored their request because seeing Him would do them absolutely no good. He said, (I paraphrase) "If I die and am buried, then I will come forth again in the life of many who will be just like Me. That is how I will do you good."
We are the life that came out of His death. Yes, some of that seed is for planting again, but most of it is for feeding the hungry.
"As He is, so are we in this world."
The resurrection of Christ is the greatest thing in the entire universe. The resurrection of Christ swallows up everything else. We live in that reality in all things. Every part of our being is found nowhere but in His resurrection. There is no part of us that is not flowing out of that resurrection.
This is something we must know. We cannot know it by reason, which is why I am groping for words and illustrations. We can know the full reality of His life in us only as He reveals Himself personally to us. Yet that knowledge must work its way out into every part of our reason and consciousness until we see and see out of His life alone.
We do not 'make' ourselves His life, we already are. We reckon it to be so.
God made me the way I am because that is how He wants me to be. Almost all people in my life have thought that I ought to be different than what I am. And all the years that I believed they were right were years of hopelessness and separation from Jesus. Yes, I knew Him as my Savior; yes, I heard His voice and I sought after Him, but Oh, Father.
At a very difficult junction in my life (I have known many) a dear and precious elderly sister said to me, "You would have more friends if you would just be friendlier." I honor the memory of this dear woman of God who has since gone on to be with the Lord, but she had no idea the hopelessness and despair and emptiness that was sealed in my heart by those words.
I suspect that this is one of the greatest lessons the Lord wants me to draw from my eighteen years in Move of God community. Christian community contains many wonderful experiences and I believe that the Lord will restore us to that way of life, though with significant differences from what I knew. But in the communities in which I lived, I realize now, being something 'other' than what you were in yourself was everything. There was a definition of 'Christ,' how He looks and acts, but what we were in ourselves was flesh and shameful. The result was an entire culture of pretending to be something other than what we were. Yet, for all that pretending, nothing ever changed in reality. Yes, there was mighty anointing and many powerful demonstrations of the Spirit through all those years. God was with us. But we could never be real. Always, what we thought other people expected of us was the face we wore. Near the end of my time there, I thought of it as a 'dance of fac es.' A different face for a different situation or set of people. And oh, how we were skilled in putting on those faces.
Pretending is not life.
There is no question that there is above human power in Christ in us. But not one ounce of that power will ever be real until we are real. And when we are real, the power is not of us. And we are as blessed as the next guy as the river of life flows out.
Life is being yourself, as you are, comfortable and real, Jesus living in you and through you - as you.
The fascinating thing is that, through all those years and my close relationship with dozens of different elders and apostolic ministries, three men were different. This is how the Lord brought me out of that experience still sane. (Not all had that privilege, to come out still sane.) I could look back at 21 years of difficulty and heartache and loss and failure, with great glory, and see three brief periods of time during which I was different. During those three brief times (each less than a year), I was filled with confidence and joy, I moved in the Spirit, and there was good fruit in my life. I long pondered what made the difference and it was coming to believe what made the difference that brought me out in the Lord and with a sound mind.
The difference was three particular men elders, who were my 'covering' during those brief times, separated by many in-between years. These men were real, they were tender and kind, without pretense. But the biggest difference was that they treated me as if I were real, as if I had an anointing and calling equal to and alongside of them. They always encouraged me, shared important things with me, and related to me as if I were a vital part of their life and ministry. The difference between them and almost all others was enormous, day versus night. And it was during those times that I saw peace and fruitfulness in my own life.
Coming to understand why I had those three good times in the move is what brought me out into this present understanding of Christ as my life. Remembering and thinking about those times was the anchor, the life-line, which held me through the years of emotional chaos of separating my mind and heart from that culture of pretending, that culture of death.
I have been learning to just trust Him in me as me, utterly, in spite of the cauldron of emotions that I live with. I know that this resolution of weakness that He brings us to is both the doorway into and the foundation for all the glory that He also shares with us.
His life is revealed in my weakness, as I am right now. I refuse to pretend, to put on masks to meet the expectations of other people.
I am alive unto God. Nothing else is real.
I am alive unto God.

The Absolute Profundity of the Blood, Cross, and Resurrection of Christ: Part 2

The Absolute Profundity of the Blood, Cross, and Resurrection of Christ: Part 2
From: Daniel

The Cross

The cross is for the sinner. The blood is for the one sinned against, but the cross deals with the one who sinned.
There is no independent self. The great delusion of man is that he is independent of God. Paul told a group of pagans who never received Christ, "In Him you live and move and have your being." 'Self,' then, is a mental delusion.
Fred Pruitt, in his book, "The Axe Is Laid to the Root" lays out this understanding of the cross more clearly than I can. "Laid to the Root" is another way of saying "Absolute Profundity." I urge you to obtain a copy of that book and read it more than once over a period of time. Our understanding always grows by steps.
The idea that we are an independent self comes out of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It comes out of man's fall - it is man's fall.
The tree of knowledge says this: "Here I am, there God is. God speaks, I try to do what God says. I try, but sometimes I do good and sometimes I do evil. So here I am running back and forth between flesh and Christ, between sin and righteousness, between self and death to self. And so I am and remain until I die and go to heaven."
You can see that Christian theology is rooted entirely in the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
The resurrection is the tree of life. I will talk about life in the next section, but here I want to talk about death.
I am dead.
I am dead in three ways. I am dead to the tree of knowledge, that is to the life of 'self.' I am dead to Adam and to my ancestral connection from my natural father back to Adam. And I am dead to the world.
When I look at 'self,' I cannot see self, I can see only the cross.
When I look at my natural father not as a brother in the Lord, but as a connection back to Adam, I cannot see any part of natural humanity, I can see only the cross.
When I look at this world, and everything in this world, country, economy, associations, cults, flags, culture, the unending deception coming to us from the image of the beast (i.e. television news), I cannot see any part of the world, I can see only the cross.
Jesus said, "Whatever you ask, believe that you have received it, and you shall have it." This is the law of faith. This is the law by which God brings all reality into existence. God calls those things that 'be not' as though they are.
This is why we must be careful of an unguarded use of the Old Testament. David said, "Create in me a clean heart, Oh God." And we sing this over and over and pray it over and over. But it is all gross unbelief because we never allow ourselves to receive from God what we ask for. The Old Testament is God limited and confined by the tree of knowledge.
At what point, in asking God to create in you a clean heart, will you believe that you have already received what you ask for? Those who ask over and over actually consider that believing you have already received that clean heart to be blasphemy and defiance of God's judgment against sin.
What gives?
I have no connection to any sinful self. I ask God for the full knowledge of my full and absolute freedom from sin and that fallen human nature which sins, and I believe that I have received what I have asked.
I have no connection to Adam. I ask God for and I believe that I have received the full knowledge of my full and absolute severance from Adam and from all things connected to natural man upon this earth. I receive what I ask.
I have no connection to anything in this world. My heart is severed from any love for any element of this world. I can freely spurn the American flag. I can freely refuse to "honor the troops." I can freely walk separately from any entanglement to any element of this world.
(And do not think that I am speaking nonsense. Jesus is coming in full glory to expose and consume all lies and all evil in this world. Any attachment still in your heart to any part of this world will cause you to deny Him and to fight against Him before this thing is over. The idea that we have our freedom in America because we kill people is an incredibly sick and perverted lie that cannot be countenanced by anyone who knows Jesus.)
I ask for the full knowledge of my full separation from all hindrances or bonds or ties to anything in this fallen world. I believe that I have received that full knowledge.
By the cross I am crucified to the world and the world is crucified to me.
And I have what I ask for, now.
Whether my eyes see it fully or not, I believe that I have it - now.
And I open my eyes to believe and to see what I believe.
The cross is absolute. And it puts to death absolutely all things that come out of the Lie or that have any connection whatsoever to that Lie.
To believe that I am a sinner is to defy the cross.
To believe that I am bound to sin is to defy the cross and to disobey the express commandment of God.
To believe that I am a human in any way descendant from or tied to Adam or to countenance any connection to Adam or to a natural fathering or source is to defy the cross.
To believe that I have any part of this wicked world, or any part in any of the wicked nations of this world, and especially in this hour of blasphemy, the cult of the worship of human government, is to defy the cross. It is to rip it out of its foundation.
The cross is absolute. But I must know and see its absoluteness in every part of my existence.
God, open my eyes. I ask and I believe that I have received what I ask for. And all seeing of all present reality as it truly is in God right now is mine. I believe.
Look at me, God, I am Your servant. Let it be to me according to Your word.
(To be continued in Part 3, The Resurrection.)

The Absolute Profundity of the Blood,Cross and Resurrection of Christ Part 1

I could spin this out, but that would be artificial. If you get time read these three great posts from Daniel Yordy. As you reach part 3 you will see that he emerged intact...just about...from community life. This was my experience. May our generation build Christ communities on a better foundation! But anyone who knows me can understand why I relate to Daniel's experiences.
The Absolute Profundity of the Blood, Cross, and Resurrection of Christ: Part 1From: Daniel Yordy
'Absolute' means "free from imperfection; having no restriction, exception, or qualification."
'Profundity' means "the state of extending far, all-encompassing."
Christian theology and the human mind have found every possible way to limit and reduce the meaning and impact of the blood, the cross, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ, each in their own spheres.
Central to the work God is doing in changing our minds, in opening our eyes so that we might see all things as they really are, is our heart-mind faith embracing of how absolute the blood, death, and resurrection of Jesus really is, both in our own lives and in all creation.
The days of the limitation of God are over.

The Blood
The blood is for sin. Sin is an offense that causes an imbalance of justice or a debt from the one sinning to the one being sinned against. All sin is an offense against God, but much sin is also an offense against one or more members of His creation. All sin is a willful act on the part of the one sinning that takes away the 'property' right of the one sinned against. All sin must be paid back.
Let me illustrate from the ten commandments. All offense is actually theft. If I worship other gods, I take from God what belongs to Him. If I murder, I take away life that belongs to someone else. If I commit adultery, I take what belongs to another man or woman; I also steal from the child who could be born. If I lie, I take away truth and integrity that rightfully belongs to someone else. And if I covet, I want to steal, even if I can't.
God is absolutely just. Everything ever stolen (all sin) must be paid back. The law requires paying back double.
Evil is darkness. Evil produces nothing of itself; all evil is theft. Whatever evil possesses, it has stolen. All evil is an offense against the light of God and is also an offense against some part of His creation. If the evil is not harming one's neighbor, yet, it brings harm to the sinner, who is of God's creation and therefore is theft against even one's own self.
Satan has robbed himself more than he has robbed anyone except God.
To most Christians, the blood of Christ allows God to forgive those who believe in Jesus so that they can go to heaven even though they are still sinners. Some go a little further and use the blood as a weapon to fight against demons.
Let God enlarge your understanding of the blood of Christ until there is no shadow of limitation.
The blood shed by Christ answers all claims against all evil.
Take every offense ever committed from the fall of Lucifer until Jesus restores all things to the Father, every offense committed against God, against others, and against self, add them all together, and you have a fairly great weight of offense.
Yet the value of one drop of Jesus' blood is greater than the value of all things ever stolen put together.
Yes, there is coming a time when all things will be restored. God requires justice. Yet all restoration of all things rests completely inside of the absolute finality of the blood. It is already paid for. And inside of it already being paid for, now the individual who stole can freely restore that which was stolen.
I believe that for those who overcome in this age, all restoration takes place inside of our faith, our embracing of the absoluteness of the blood of Christ. At the same time, I suspect that those who do not embrace the full meaning of the blood of Christ will be required to bring restitution to those they have wronged. Some will spend an entire age doing so. Yet, if that is a correct understanding of the age to come, all restitution brought will be possible only because it is already restored fully and without question by the blood of Jesus.
This speaks of the extent of the blood, but there is another picture that shows us it's depth.
Jesus was the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. God is eternal. The blood and sacrifice of Christ was not 'added' to God's nature and being after some historical incident. Christ as He walked this earth was simply revealing in time and space what was already eternally true.
Yet, even though the blood has always been, it had no effect in the history of man until red human corpuscles dripped into the dirt at the foot of a piece of wood stuck into the ground.
As I sit here writing this, pondering this picture, my heart and mind scream against all limitation of the extent and meaning of those red blood cells mixing with the dirt of the earth.
My God, my God. Salvation is complete, right here, right now. To relegate any element of salvation to some future day is an open insult to the power and completeness of that blood in the dirt. Today is the day of salvation.
The blood was not shed in heaven, it was shed in the earth. The blood was not shed in some future age, it was shed in the present age of human folly. The blood did not mix with the 'gold' of heaven's 'streets,' it mixed with the dust and the dirt of this planet.
Do not ever weep over sin.
That doesn't mean we are not sorrowful if we cause hurt to someone else. It doesn't mean that we don't ask forgiveness and do what is needful to make it right.
It means that we walk in the light, without any consciousness of sin, because we walk at all times with the full extent of the blood of Christ mixing with every part of our human earth.
It is finished.
And it is finished for all creation as well.
Many Christians like to get all worked up about other people's sin. It makes them feel good, I guess. Some of my students like to rail against homosexuals. "God says it's wrong," they cry. "And have you lied?" I ask, "Because lying is a worse offense against God than any sexual sin." I point out that Jesus said nothing against those who were accused of sexual sin except "Neither do I condemn you." But those who got an emotional thrill out of accusing others, Jesus was adamantly against.
Religious accusation that exalts self while condemning another is the one thing that Jesus fought against with all the ferocity of His being. "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."
Satan is cast out of the heavens as all accusation is cast out of our hearts and minds.
"Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died and furthermore is also risen . . ." Romans 8:33-34
The blood of Christ has already paid all claims against all offense. When you magnify sin, you diminish the blood. When you magnify the blood, sin vanishes from view.
We must see all things both within ourselves and in our experience with others and in all creation through the blood of Christ, always.
The blood of Christ has more value than we can possibly ever know.
You have been purchased with that blood; you are more valuable than you can possibly ever know.
If you had in your hands the largest shaped diamond ever in history, worth hundreds of millions of dollars, knowing fully its value, you would be mightily moved inside and you would treat that piece of earth with more care than you have ever treated anything in your life.
To see all things through the blood of Jesus is to see all things created by God, each individual person, as having more value than all earth's diamonds put together could ever possibly have.
The Blood of Jesus.
Remove all shadow of limitation from your heart and mind.
Believe in Jesus.
(To be continued in Part 2, The Cross and The Resurrection.)

Tuesday 13 October 2009

Conversation with Jack Fortenberry, writer of Corinthian Elders

In the 2 winds prophecy(down the page ) it speaks about everything, but everything being shaken.

Everything has to be in Christ. Rooted in him. Grounded in Him. Coming from Him. Heading in a throne direction.

Just as we feel awkward when we now hear the patronizing tones of old Pathe News clips, and just as these are now much sent up by comedians in the USA and UK, so thirdleveller types find secondlevel stuff quite yukky. And just as it would have been impossible to relay to Pathe News quite what was wrong in their delivery, so today, without a breakthrough in the Holy Spirit, it is just as impossible to explain to current leaders who have "done things that way" for 40 years in the charismatic scene, what is wrong in their style.

Here are some areas.

You are promoting you. Whether deliberately or implied.

You are not laying a foundation of Christ and only Christ.

You are saying Christ plus......

You organise things with yourself at the pinnacle.

If you died tomorrow your organisation would flounder.

You speak to people as though they are not your equal in the Blood of Christ.

You seem to think it is important that you always speak/preach/lead.

You don't transplant the Body of Christ method as related in the Bible..that is "everyone hath a"

You believe that each meeting should have no more than one message, and no less than one message. (But Jesus does what He likes thankyou. He is the Lord)

You don't empower those you lead to minister alongside you.

You don't speak from the Christ within. You speak anyway. You have natural flair after all!

It's a bit like the Emperor has no clothes. No one has ever dared tell you these things.

But actually in the 3rd level you are naked.

You do not impart holiness. You have not eaten of it.

You do not impart power. You have not received it. Or if you have it is to promote you.

You say the words of the Bible but you do not impart Word when you speak.

"In the congregation of the righteous " (Psalm1:5) you are undone.

You are unaware of the times we are in and just how developed the Bride of Christ is and you carry on regardless with the same formats, the same material.

People who you should have instructed now have to instruct you - in the ways of the 3rd level.

You took their silence to mean you must talk more. Their silence was their period of waiting on God for His Life to come.

Now like the Joel 2 army. Suddenly they are here.


So it is a time for reassessing everything. This is the point of Jack Fortenberry's book Corinthian Elders. Not that he is right in everything. Not that he has come up with yet another slavish blueprint to follow, another Tree of the Knowledge of good and evil,
another "4 legs good 2 legs bad "from Animal Farm. The point is he is putting everything in the mirror of what the Word actually says. Whether I agree about tithing, one thing is clear, if we tithe it is based on Christ's living Word and not some system. Joseph Prince's church Singapore tithe to missions. Where does the remaining 36 million dollars per annum go? Nine tenths squandered on their own church needs?Perhaps not. But we need to check everything in these days.


With these things in mind I sent an email to Jack. I like Che Ahn's heart when he shares of God's dealings with him. But after discussing about ministries I feel torn between the evident unique empowering upon these gifts in the Body but just as real is what Norman Grubb shares, all Father ministries are apostolic in the sense that they impart the seed of Christ as us. They know how to labour to see Christ formed in others. They know about the third level trick of going to hell for others, "filling up that which is lacking in Christ's affliction ...on behalf of others. Father level people don't talk about being apostles.Well Paul did in his letters. But in person they don't need to...because it is simply evident. They just wander into and out of situations- a bit like the original Dr Who as William Hartnell. Once they've done what they do, they quietly vacate the scene leaving people wondering where they went. But the residue implanted lives on and grows!!!
The blog has been a good hub for many streams of people, though we're only talking about 20 different people per day.
According to stats anyway. It has been good practice for me.

I've been carrying your book around in my heart for a few weeks and thought I'd ask this.
Last night Che Ahn was talking again about ministries on God TV from last year's trip to Maidenhead England.

What is clear is that God raises individuals to do particular particular specific things.
So my question is.....and any answer you give is balanced by my own observations coming from how the Key of David meetings work here...(These are the God alone agenda meetings rather than local church meetings per se)?

Where do you think evident God ministries overstep the mark to start building pyramids in their own likeness?
Things seem to work best when they are driven by one leader with a goal and a vision. Should the Body be following these one men types...or a series of one man types, each expressing their own corner of the Kingdom, their own God birthed revelation? How does it work out among your crowd?

Morris Cerullo gathers all his donors together to blitz them with us much anointed ministry as possible from maybe 15 leaders.
Is this where things are going? That it's local churches without walls...completely open to receiving whomever at any point,
either from among themselves or as God sends folk that at no point we are building round one leader anymore, but Christ?

I just wanted to differentiate between "the everyone hath a" type of sharing, which without Christ can revert back to a Quaker meeting 200 years on,
and the fact that mature ministries need more of a platform to bring the extensive stuff they have to share.

Any thoughts?
Many thanks


Hi Chris,

Likewise I have been encouraged by your FB updates.

I think that those of us (as piano tuners, accountants, etc.) who depend on God’s provision day to day are forced to learn His faithfulness. Whether we want to or not! J. I do pray for your clarity of mind and decisions as you wait on Him for direction in your business. I suspect we are on similar paths in this life.

On your question (Where do you think evident God ministries overstep the mark to start building pyramids in their own likeness? Things seem to work best when they are driven by one leader with a goal and a vision. Should the Body be following these one men types...or a series of one man types, each expressing their own corner of the Kingdom, their own God birthed revelation? How does it work out among your crowd?) I think that I am apt to err in applying God’s perfect Word while interpreting it through my sinful shortcomings. However only to encourage and specifically to offer fellowship I offer the following personal observations.

1) When you say: Things seem to work best when they are driven by one leader with a goal and a vision, you say it exactly right that things ‘seem’ to go best. In other words that they have the appearance of being the best. But I think that sometimes we have to be careful realizing that God’s ways are not our ways that that while we see things a certain way that God may look at things differently. I use as an example how Saul seemed to be the perfect King whereas David seemed an unlikely candidate (not even considered among his brothers) yet though God’s sovereign work was accomplished by each clearly Saul did not please God whereas David won His heart.

2) Certainly there are times when we should all be going in the same direction whereas we should love to follow, say a David. Of course when we do that there will be some who misunderstand and will seek to establish their relationship with God by their relationship with their leader. As a side note sometimes the word follow or leader was used in the NT it was used in the sense of lead as in ‘go before’. In other words chronologically. Not ‘go before’ as in the best seat in the synagogue.

3) When you ponder: Where do you think evident God ministries overstep the mark to start building pyramids in their own likeness?, things ‘seem’ to go awry when the brothers and sisters begin to lose interest in each other and begin to focus on this leader. There are so many ‘one another’ commandments in the New Testament not to mention the command that we ‘love one another’ which often seems to get lost even while we are teaching it. Sometimes I have seen what appears a pyramid when actually the structure is very ‘one another’ in nature. It only ‘seemed’ pyramidal in nature. However a few concerns I have would include whether the leader claims or is given a) more authority than other believers or b) claims or is given more teaching time than other believers. If the leader(s) in this developing pyramid are receiving money then I would think then that would be a concern of mine although not in every situation (example a church planting situation perhaps whereas the planter will only be in that situation temporarily). In the US money seems to be the motivation for leaders. Once the money is taken away they seem to not be as interested in ‘leading’ the flock much longer. However some do enjoy just the ‘leading’ aspect for other reasons.

At our crowd we just look forward to fellowship but also learning from one another each week. Of course we have a few (most of us I suppose) that think we understand just a little more than everyone else but we also see the commandment to submit to one another. We also see the Husband and Father as the head of the household especially in contrast to any leader of our assembly therefore we never try to exercise teaching or authority over someone else’s family of course. There is a lot of mutual respect for person even though we hold to diverse theologies or different interpretations of some passages of Scripture. That is not to say that we do not discipline for sin in a brother’s life. There would be much during the week time devoted to encouragement, rebuke, etc. if that were the case.

These towers of babel are a huge problem but I really believe God is moving and dispersing them even now.

The immediate point of the Rabbi's post had been lost on me

The immediate point of this post was unknown to me.

Israel is in desperate need of rain. N and P write as they go there:

"The situation has become so serious now, that if water continues to be taken from Lake Galilee and the level falls beneath what is known as the black line, then irreparable damage could happen to the aquifers (the rocks that hold the water). If this came about then the lake would become saline. The parallel is that God longs to pour out His Living water ."

Monday 12 October 2009 you believe you are not going to die then?

I make no apology for the extreme nature of this post. Like all belief changes that have to happen on our insides...they make little sense to the Left we, and certainly left-brain locked individuals have a hard time with most of New testament doctrine. And then, consequently, throw it back to us.
" have righteousness apart from the Law?"
"What, Jesus bore 39 stripes to remove us from the 39 major sickness groups?"
"What....Christ in Us the hope of glory...what the £^%*&!"£! are you on?"
" believe you're not going to die?"

In a tin tabernacle whose first meeting was inaugurated early last century by Smith Wigglesworth, on Thorney Island,Emsworth, I prophesied about the last curse to be lifted. It was around 1981. The meeting went kind of quiet.
I have never before or since reached so deeply into my spirit for something so far out sounding in any prophecy. Yet here it is, in this be grabbed on our insides. Because that is where everything starts. If we live from our left-brain, nothing ever changes. From generation to generation.
The movers and shakers.
The dreamers.
The major scientists and entrepreneurs....
HAVE NEVER lived from their left-brain. The left-brain is only the tool for rolling out the details.The articulation. The step by step plan. And you may have noticed...the Lord does not roll out His plans too far ahead.

It is as it was in the Old testament Principle, though now in the Spirit.
"Walk forward 6 paces. Then sacrifice...wholeheartedly...bloodily...Walk forward another 6 paces.Then sacrifice....." etc etc.

The Curse, It's Purpose, and Overthrow (Part 2)From: Daniel Yordy
In the last letter, we looked at the first four parts of the curse that came upon mankind through Adam. In both Genesis 3 and Romans 8, God says that the curse is for our sakes. But we understand that "for our sakes" has a double purpose. The first purpose is that inside the curse, we learn the affliction and the sorrow that is very much a part of our Father and which can be learned no other way; and second, that in casting off the curse, we come to know Christ as our life.
But we cannot lift a finger against the curse in the guise of Adam, a self, separate from God, trying to do what God says. That very mentality keeps us bound under the curse. To believe that we carry Adam's rotting corpse - a fallen human nature - unable to be free from it, is a curse indeed.
It is only as we embrace our union with Christ, He in us and we in Him, that we are an empty vessel, made clean by the blood, separated from Adam by the cross, the reflection of Christ's person in this world.
To know Him, in intimacy, in togetherness, in a shared life.
But God is a fighter, and He in us casts off the curse as the illusion and the non-thing that it is.
Here is the problem. The curse is our comfort blanket. It is warm and fuzzy; it is familiar. We are so accustomed to the curse that to think in terms of its absence is almost to be 'non-human.'
You will discover that the strongest defenders of the curse are fellow believers in Jesus. There are whole sermons preached on how wonderful and good death is. In so many Christian funerals, death is exalted as most precious, second only to Jesus Himself.
It is never viewed as the most vicious enemy we have, more anti-Christ than Satan or sin.
Death is over-rated.
Like Goliath, shouting and beating his chest against the armies of God while they hide behind their tents, convinced that no one could go up against such an enemy - death will kill you! Yet one little boy presumes against the giant. God is with him. He does not pray. He does not cry, "Oh God, please, if it be Your will, speak to me." No. He knows God is with him and he with God. That is enough for David. He also know that this giant blasphemes God and that the armies of Israel shame Him. Goliath is already dead in David's eyes.
But who are David's opponents? His brothers. The ones who know that the present illusion is the only reality.
Death is over-rated.
" . . . the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel." 2 Timothy 1:10.
"For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, 'Death is swallowed up in victory.'" 2 Corinthians 15:53-54
Before we look at the last three parts of the curse, let me point this out. The New Testament answer to the curse of Genesis 3 is found in Romans 8:18-23 and Revelation chapter 12. These are the two "heresy" passages of the New Testament. Yet, if they are not central to our understanding of the gospel, then we do not understand the gospel. If Romans 8:19 and Revelation 12:5 are not at the center and heart of our definition of the gospel of Jesus Christ, then what we have is not the gospel, but only a shadow. That doesn't bother Jesus, He is our Savior, and He brings us all the way through to Himself.
But somewhere along the line, those two verses become our central focus and we realize that the sacrifice of Jesus has nothing to do with going to heaven and everything to do with redeeming this earth and all creation.
Continuing with the parts of the curse:
Part 5: Genesis 3:17 "Cursed is the ground for your sake . . ."
God is favor. To be in God is to be in favor. To be surrounded by God is to be surrounded by favor. Adam lived in favor. He knew no shadow of anything else. Everything he put his hand to prospered, as Solomon says of the godly in Psalms 1.
That favor vanished with the curse. Now, everything Adam tried to do failed. He put out his hand to receive and got poked by a thorn. He worked hard to grow a bit of garden, like I do, and weeds grew and then the bugs ate the weeds!
I want to get right at something here. We imagine that because we "trust in Jesus for where we will spend eternity" we have "faith." Yet all of my Christian life, I have expected the curse.
Faith is what we expect, not what we hope for. We 'hope' God will bless us; we expect the curse. And in so much Christian thinking, including the thinking I lived in for many years, to expect the curse is to "be godly" and to expect blessing is to be manipulating and using God for our selfish benefit.
And things going wrong, things not working out, seems to be normal. Our whole mind, the whole construction of our thinking processes, works out to the curse. We expect it; and we speak what we expect.
And God does leave the curse upon the way of thinking I lived in for most of my Christian life - that I was a self, separate from Christ, and that I had to "hear" what God says and "do" it.
But to live in union with Christ - He is my life, I have no other life - is to live in the expectation of God.
To expect God is to expect favor. To expect favor in Christ is to expect God.
Our thinking is conditioned to expect not favor. Therefore, we are also expecting not God.
There is never an absence of faith in any human being. Every descendant of Adam is filled with faith. We are made to expect. And we receive what we expect.
Most Christians expect the curse. That's why they receive it.
To expect not favor is to expect not God. We receive fully exactly what we expect in every direction of our lives - health, weight, finances, relationships, work - all the way through. To expect God in heaven only is to expect not God.
The curse is there for our sakes, not to live in it, but to wake up one day and to realize that if my theology has left me in the curse, maybe my theology is really screwed up. The curse is there so that we know to get out of it and into the tree of life. Not to embrace the curse, defend it, and seek to live under it.
". . . who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ." Ephesians 1:3
"Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven." Matthew 6:10
Revelation 12 deals with this part of the curse. Verse 16: "But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth."
I do not understand what this means. I know it is not a physical occurrence, that is, a physical splitting open of the ground. It is referring directly to the final moments of the curse upon the earth. When the earth itself turns from the dragon to the woman and sacrifices itself for her sake. It's almost like one of the major themes of the fairy tales. Look at the fairy tales, how the curse is lifted, and you will see a reflection of the truth. God speaks through stories.
The curse sits like computer viruses in our brains. We think little thought scenarios, and we speak out of those thoughts. If we will just stop and look at those things, we realize that our thoughts and the words we speak from those thoughts are nothing other than the expectation of the curse.
As I was waking up last Sunday morning, I had a dream. In that dream I could see so clearly. This thing is so simple. All we have to do is change the way we think. To think as God thinks and to see as God sees. It is so simple. God expects Himself; He never expects anything else.
When I awoke, it did not seem quite so simple, but I know that in my dream, I saw reality, and in my waking thoughts, I am yet wrapped in illusions and darkness.
Part 6: Verse 19 ". . . For dust you are, and to dust you shall return."
Death - physical death.
Death is not real separation from God. There is no such thing as separation from God. The 'separation from God' that man presently experiences is God's blessing, it is the skin of the beast, the last part of the curse.
When the skin of the beast is removed, sinners will be sinners in all the presence of God. It is a lake of fire. It is a time of purification.
Yet death is a form of separation, a separation in our minds, in our thinking, in our expectation.
We expect to die. No matter how many times the gospel promises us unending life, we do not expect it. We expect to die.
Jesus says to Martha in John 11, "He that lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"
But Martha cannot believe - "Yah, someday." But her mind turns away.
"The wages of sin is death"
"In the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die."
Physical death is the penalty for sin.
God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. Yet, all those who are in heaven are without their physical bodies. They are only partly there. That realm of heaven in which the saints of God live is temporary, it is passing away. Those who are with Jesus are right now pressing back towards earth. They want their bodies back. They want to live as humans again. Their present hope is focused upon us.
We are humans, we will forever be humans, that point of union between Spirit and dirt, between the breath of God and the Earth - a living soul. Forever fully the sons of God and forever fully the sons of Abraham. The idea that we will live forever in heaven is cooked up by defeated Christianity, clouded by the curse, it is not taught in the New Testament. We are made for earth and we are made for heaven. Of all God's creation, we are the only created beings who live in both at the same time. And we are able to "go back and forth" (an inadequate phrase) to live in heaven and to live in the earth and to enjoy all the fruits and experiences of both.
This earth belongs to me and I have no desire to go anywhere else until I see it redeemed and transformed into the full expectation of God.
"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many . . ." Hebrews 9:27-28
This is one of the most misquoted verses in the Bible. Listen next time you hear someone quote verse 27. Notice how they drop that little word "as." It is rather inconvenient.
"As - So." Because of one, then the other. Christ was offered once as my sin offering. Jesus kept my appointment with death. Since I have only one such appointment; I do not have another.
Revelation 12:11 ". . . and they did not love their lives unto the death."
The only way out of the tree of knowledge is the tree of life.
The only way out of the curse is Christ.
If I love having a life of my own, separate from Jesus, me, responsible for myself, then I will die.
But if He in me and I in Him is sufficient for me; if Jesus is my life and I have no other life, then, in this great paradox of God, death is swallowed up in victory.
Philippians 3:10-11 " . . . that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead."
2 Corinthians 5:4 "For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life."
Notice the order Paul gives us in Philippians 3. For so many years I had it backwards. I thought that we had to start with being conformed to His death before we could ever fully know Him. How wrong I was.
It all begins by knowing Him - fully and absolutely. Knowing that there is no distinction, no separation between me and Him. Jesus is my life. Even when my emotions are all screwed up, even when I am caught in sin, I do not look at myself as some separate entity, bowed under guilt and shame. No. My sin is already swallowed up in His sin offering, I am washed clean by His blood, and my emotions are simply Jesus sharing His own agonies - the cup that He Himself bears - with me. As we know Him in us, we know, first the power of an endless life, then we know the fellowship of His sufferings, we share His emotions and His pain, then our union with Him in all things causes us to be made conformable to His death.
And thus death is defeated.
We groan, not to die and go to heaven, but we groan and labor, that our mortal bodies would be instantaneously swallowed up by life.
This is the goal of the believer as taught in the New Testament. When was the last time you were in a church service where the pastor led by the Spirit in you to groan for the resurrection, the transformation of our bodies? Yet Paul says this is the normal Christian life!
To defeat death. To cast if off. This is the game plan of God - the end game. This is what God is doing in those sons who insist on all that God speaks.
Delay is no more.
I will continue with the 7th part of the curse in Part 3 of this series. The 7th part, being clothed with the skin of a beast, is the most significant part of the curse.
The skin of the beast makes the curse part of the human DNA. To cast it off is to be caught up to God and to His throne.