Why Reformation Talk is simply underestimating the huge thing God is actually doing

I am not saying John Noe and Lance Wallnau, and three decades before them Gerald Coates and Fulness Magazine are wrong in saying that what we need is NOT revival but a REFORMATION.
John Noe writes a book on it describing just how big the Lutheran and Protestant Reformation is.
Thirdlevel Christianity IS that REFORMATION.
But it;s bigger still.
It is the promised restoration of all things.
It is the Psalm 24 MASTER KEY in the lock
IT IS the greater glory of the latter House but without any of the former infestation of religion.
ACTS 2 was great, but it was still in a context of religion.
It broke free, and St Paul and St Peter (eventually) were no small part in that.....but in the grand grand outworking it was only the Feast of Pentecost.

God is rolling out a Tabernacles that is so big, John Noe thinks I am nuts.
Pentecost was in Jerusalem as was the Passover Jesus participated in, involving His own Body at Golgotha.

Well if you sow a Divine Seed in a Passover and Pentecost context what are you going to harvest?

YUP. The whole earth !!!!
Not understanding Union John Noe and Lance Wallnau are just tinkering with outer forms, all the seven big mountains of influence, currently totally overrun by the secular plans of Psalm 2, and Freemasonry.

God doesnt tinker at this level. He recreates ONE NEW MATURE MAN according to Ephesians....
or as Jesus put it
The Son of Man appearing like lightning across the earth.
And how can that be?
Simple.
Every individual accepting being born again
Every individual accepting the message of being baptised in the Holy Spirit and taking up the Romans 6 confession of faith
Every individual believing ON Galatians 2.20 until it becomes consciousness
No one has seen a church like it?
No one has seen it happen in all the earth and every nation.
But this is behind God's GLORY or THIRDLEVEL statement
"As truly as I LIVE all the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of God as the waters cover the sea."

How do we get there? Facing doubts full on. Gaining experiential faith and knowledge of God
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2 Cecilia Tacuboy Urian and Kimera Betz
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Kimera Betz
Kimera Betz Amen!
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Kimera Betz
Kimera Betz We are being transformed into the very image of Christ from the inside out. Where else could those ancient gates & paths be but in our minds, will & emotions, in other words, in our souls. When we believe on Jesus & He comes to live in us our spirits a...See more
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John Noe
John Noe Please well define what you think "Third level Christianity" is. Thank you.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch John third level is when the second level becomes us. We walk Jesus Christ as us knowing there is no such thing as a John Noe with a little bit of Jesus rattling around somewhere. None of that dual false consciousness remains.....The whole phony Genesi...See more
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch I don't know if Morris Cerullos generation will ever truly see this stuff, but the equivalent, if you have watched him and Kenneth Hagin is when they changed from racing around frenetically to doing seemingly very little. Morris started to speak of him...See more
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John Noe
John Noe That's not a definition. You are simply rambling on in a muddied fashion So where does muddled writing come from? It comes from muddy thinking. My advice, if you care to receive it is: you need better clarify and present your definition of your so-called "Third level Christianity" if you want people to take you seriously.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch John one day you thought asking Jesus into your heart was stupid and muddied thinking.
One day you thought being baptised in the Spirit was ludicrous.
Then you experienced both.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch You want a Tree of Knowledge life when Jesus only speaks out of the Tree of Life.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch You want a Christianity of morals and dogma and Law and Judaism and the Old Covenant that you can easily transplant and by it prove to yourself that you are an apostle. But actually you just need Jesus.
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John Noe
John Noe You're rambling again.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch John one day you thought asking Jesus into your heart was stupid and muddied thinking.
One day you thought being baptised in the Spirit was ludicrous.
Then you experienced both.
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John Noe
John Noe Chris Welch -- How do you know any of this?
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Because unborn again people do not get the meaning of salvation.
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John Noe
John Noe Chris Welch -- What's that supposed to mean?
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch we cannot "get"or "understand " or "perceive " what we havent experienced spiritually
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John Noe
John Noe Chris Welch -- Oh? So what?
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch everybody who isnt born again accuses born again people of having muddled thinking.
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John Noe
John Noe Chris Welch -- That's another example of your "muddled thinking" -- IMO.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch everybody who hasnt experienced baptism in the Spirit says the same about Spirit filled people. Only this time they have to pull more straws out of the bag because the atmosphere of joy and emotion cant be denied so they put a sense evaluation to it....

like in Acts 2....oh they are drunk....
which was a bit daft at 9am in the morning.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch There is nothing muddled or undefined about spirit. The only thing the poor little leftfrontal cortex can't handle is you cant measure it with 5 senses or a ruler or some kind of meter..
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John Noe
John Noe Chris Welch -- Since you have introduced that rabbit trail into this posting conversation, I still I've any idea what your so-called "Third level Christianity" is all about ???
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch My socalled thirdlevel is the same as Paul or Jesus or St John.
Or David in Psalm 123.
It's being so locked into seeing what God is doing that in the end you deny, disallow, don't see any other form of duallistic living. Or if you see it you call it out for what it is.

One of the clearest references is when the man said to Jesus "Good Teacher"
and He turned on him to pin him down.
Who are you calling good, there is only one who is good?

The normal thing at that point is to accept a person's flattery, not examine it.
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John Noe
John Noe ???
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch what do you do when you read that passage? Or have you already torn it out?
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John Noe
John Noe I didn't read it.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch well that's honest. How much else dont you read while deriving a living as a ministry?
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John Noe
John Noe Chris Welch -- lots. Also, how do you think you know whether I derive a living as a ministry or not?
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch at the very least you are seling a book of Christian knowledge
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch I think you once said you have been an apostle for some 20-30 years
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John Noe
John Noe So you extrapolate that to mean "deriving a living as a ministry?
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John Noe
John Noe Chris Welch -- Never said any such thing.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch yes
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John Noe
John Noe Chris Welch -- then that's another issue you are in error about.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch I clearly am confusing another conversation, but your book is your book.
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John Noe
John Noe You, sir, are ignorant with your unknowing accusations.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch As one who was reading your book, I am sure you are not meaning that.
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John Noe
John Noe Oh, yes, I do mean that.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Well to be clear, you are expecting us to read a book about reformation but you dont really perceive anything about what the bible might mean about it.
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John Noe
John Noe You've got to be kidding, right?
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch No. Jesus turning on that man for calling Him Good Teacher is really key to what I have written there.
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John Noe
John Noe Enough of your rambling and accusatory nonsense. Goodbye.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Any resemblance to an encounter between Jesus and other people in the gospels is purely......
well accurate.

The Body of Christ has Apps!

Update 20th September:I've added a bit to this post.It's blue! This picture is nicked from Apple, so in return I've left a hyperlink to their iphone app page!

The Body of Christ has Apps.

I was talking to a sister in the Body of Christ today. Her marriage is rocky. There are various issues that in this case the husband, and it is the husband, has to work through. Every couple has to work through differences , but if the Bible said it was wrong to dress up as a giraffe with purple spots, and that is what your husband did....repeatedly...causing trouble for the whole family...then further action would be called for. You understand the issues are a good deal more serious than dressing up as a giraffe!

What came out though is there is a lack of infrastructure in the sister's locality. (This was not the UK by the way). In Derby in England the couple who took our wedding, have been used to set up "Celebrate Recovery". This works through gritty situations of hurt and addictions, and is one answer in the Body of Christ today. It is so successful it is also being rolled out into UK prisons for those who want it.

In the UK we also have Ellel Ministries that specialise in demonic deliverance issues. Also, right now Mark Stibbe has it on his heart to set up a centre in the middle of nowhere, out of the public eye, to be a safe place for pastors and leaders to get freed up before they get exposed and take a lot of hurt people with them.

This week on Dan's site we have been discussing the pros and cons of "Covenant Eyes". And like the above situations, there is not a hard and fast answer. Just to say God can use these "Apps" in the Body of Christ as vehicles of freedom. But readers of my blog will know that there is a side of me, like Julie and Lydia, that freak out at some of these things. We are convinced that a lot of the problems are caused because in bringing people to the Lord nearly no one "explains the grace of God in truth", so from the word go people are building their Christian life like the Tower of Pisa.....SQUIFFY!

However that being so, I still want to talk about Apps. And here, less about ministry systems and more about the genuine God birthed stuff in the Body of Christ. In the Power of Teams

I describe the power of God magnified through a group of believers who have set themselves a God-goal. A goal birthed in God, and needing God to carry it out, but en route following in obedience the practical steps that He directs. Bob Gordon in the above example believed for a fabulous kitted out bus to share the gospel in with teams committed to that purpose - believing the Holy Spirit for God appointments all the way.

Now, after decades of the Holy Spirit being poured out, there are "thin places" on the Earth. Groups of believers who "have stuff" in the spirit. If you go to Bill Johnson's church Bethel you are very likely to get healed. If you went to stay with Kenneth Hagin with a fever or some ailment, while you were in his house you would not have that ailment. This was the atmosphere in which he lived. You might get it back when you left, but that was up to you. The ailments did not like Kenneth Hagin's house.

In the 80s after being rigorously trained in pressing through in praise and worship and waiting on God through the ministries of both Edward Miller and Jorge Pradas, Emsworth was a "thin place" of God's Presence in the manifestation of both praise and worship. You go in some places and praise is like a lead weight, but in Emsworth it became easy. And probably for that reason, we became a little too blase about it.

In Romsey near Southampton UK a lady had ME(chronic fatigue syndrome). She was called Marion Daniels. After a fight she was healed. But thereafter she had a facility in bringing deliverance to other ME victims. She also has much experience in dramatic healings breaking through families after a senior member has renounced freemasonry and the freemason curses. Instantly, maybe a grandchild will be healed of deafness. And they may be in a completely different part of Britain.

Corrie Ten Boom's biography has been filmed in "No Hiding Place". Through the breaking experience of her hatred of the female commandant, God birthed a supernatural love seed, that meant thereafter she had an anointing to bring love into situations, and to lead other Christians into Christ's love.

Now here's the point! For years the Body has had these pockets of anointing, but people have been content to have their little bit of the Kingdom. Well now no more. These Thin Place anointings are for sharing! Everywhere in the Body. People running to and fro throughout the Church equipping the saints. Faceless people. No more Fred Smith Ministries Incorporated. Just plain ordinary old Chris Welch, Julie Morris,Dan Bowen...going around imparting "the stuff" they've got in God. Their Apps! For the Body of Christ.

As a prophetic sign of all this back in 1991, when I set up a company to handle my CD I registered No Name Ltd.

No Name meaning not some big ministry name. And also taken from Philippians when it says of Jesus, He was made of no name, no reputation.

Roll out the Apps!

So to sum up, I want to encourage believers who feel they are in holes! That which you may struggle with, may already be valid "faith currency" in some other portion of the Body of Christ. It was for this reason I guess we used to toddle off to hear Benny Hinn and Morris Cerullo. (Not to put off any who still do!) If someone has got something in the Spirit that is not available in your vicinity, why not learn from them, I say? This need not necessarily mean you are "Conference chasers". In the end only the Holy Spirit will make it clear what you've got to travel for and what you have to wait on God for in your home environment and workplace.You will find both examples in the Bible. Elisha had to travel past a whole load of naysayers to be at the place where Elijah was going to leave him and transfer the anointing in double measure. The disciples however were instructed to remain in one location in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit was poured out among them in Acts 2.

I think the Free Believers network (places like Facebook) can be quite Fascistic in this respect. Who gives them the right to determine who is to be listened to and at what distance? Freedom is operating as a Kingdom without walls.

Some Americans from revivals early in the century, (and therefore by the 1970's quite grounded in God,) came to little old Grimsdells Lane in Amersham,UK. The two phrases they used to use were "supernaturally natural". And "Pass the platter round, take what is for you and leave the rest!" By that they meant , in any gathering of old and young Christians, there were going to be some things the Holy Spirit was saying to one lot, that He wasn't saying to others. Just take what's yours and move the platter on!

For some of us it's quite a big thing to bring our children through to experience God for themselves. For others in the Body of Christ this is already the norm.

In Emsworth the Casa Biblica was made up of really cool (apart from me ofcourse) Argentinian Spanish French and English young men and women. It was very natural for the next generation to want to emulate their hunger for God.

In Rustington is a street evangelism group who ran the children's work (my son Ben's age group) in 2008 RIVERcamp. They had clear Holy Spirit anointing and gifting for the task. Ben was impressed.

This weekend some of our church were in Fareham for teaching on youth led by people from Bethel, California entitled No More Crumbs. Some of our young people were encouraged to prophesy over the parents. It was fantastic, we heard.

The thrust was that children ARE NOT secondclass citizens in the Kingdom of God. And the teachers had clear gifting in presenting this subject.

So what is not yet normal for you maybe just a plane ticket away. Or as in this last case, paying for their ticket to get them over here. But who has heard of these servants of God with these giftings? Nobody. Does it matter? No , not really. The Body is stacked full of such giftings now, waiting to be released from nation to nation, locality to locality. There are things inside you that nobody else but you can share into the Body. There are things that you have now, from the word go, that would be a blessing in the Holy Spirit this week to someone else in the Body.