Expanded because Martin Revans on Facebook was kind enough to query.
Jesus had an answer to this one. But it's kind of the spiritual version of blonds have more fun.
If you preach a gospel of benefits and outer stuff.....like when Jesus did healing in a big way plus feeding the crowd you end up with crowds of.people like.Benny Hinn does and maybe big offerings.....but nothing really has shifted on people's insides.
(The end of the gospel is HUGE. According to Romans 8 it is not about people squeaking into heaven narrowly....it is about sons of men becoming sons of God, or realising God has made them such, and so coming into their own that from their insides out such power life and righteousness comes forth that they can be said to have come fully into their inheritance as God's own sons....and the thousands of years of bondage in creation is set free. We see this in a tiny way after every single genuine gathering in Jesus Name....most christians report how suddenly after these gatherings manythings that refused to shift suddenly shift and many prayers or desires of the heart are answered.)
Jesus was forced into operating a Matthew 5 filter system to make.it clear from the outset the types He was looking for.
(Passages like the Beatitudes make it clear God's Kingdom is about those who are prepared to taste the bitter....go right through it into the hidden blessings the other side)
He knew His time.was short and He couldn't faff around for decades like modern tv preachers....so He had to mean business and get at least a handful.turned.right round in only 3 years or so.
(The confusion with this sentence maybe that church preachers describe a "turned round person" as the 12 disciples following Jesus in the gospels.
But Jesus specifically says early on that He was giving Himself to nobody for He knew what was in them. AFTER the shattering experiences of the Cross and their total repentance, Jesus BREATHED UPON THEM in the Upper Room. These were the first really born again and turned round human beings in history)
So here's the conundrum.....how do you preach real change and still get supported? Yer Romans 3 to 5ers will always wear posh suits as they populate heaven for the future. But what if you want the Kingdom to come now?
(Romans 3 to 5 is the first material all believers have to get under their belt.
It is like the childhood stage of the New Covenant. You could be 70 and just been converted...this is the stuff you need to know. It is like the child and first bit of the young man stage of spiritual life in 1 John 2. It is about no condemnation, how our righteousness is to do with Jesus and not our works.
But this Jesus inside us is not fully grown. it is nowhere near the sort of Jesus that is so full of Rivers of Living Water that outer creation begins to be shifted by Him. The second half of the gospel is also about believing ON Jesus but THROUGH all our circumstances...of church, family and job....see Ephesians 1 to 5.)
Jesus (nevertheless)found an answer to that one.....we never hear him starving. ( He DID LOSE hundreds possibly thousands on one day....see John Chapter 6. Yet nevertheless He always believed for material provisions and food and clothing for all his disciples and families who were not in day jobs at this time. At the time of this chapter must have been quite a challenge...and this is many of our positions on the net right now. If we continue to preach at the level of Romans 3 to 5 churches and Christians will receive us with open arms. But if as someone has to....we push the envelope into mature Christianity...the Father level in 1 John 2...it covers the sort of material evangelicals don't like, nor do charismatics and we lose support.)
Union people haven't found an answer either....most are living from their Illuminati husband's pensions and if they speak too loud their spouses will divorce them. So what's the answer?
(By far the most who refer to themselves as Union people (not Trade Unions!!!) are those who have been blessed to see the full import of John 15 through writings and talks by Norman Grubb who is one of the first to articulate what St Paul's Romans letter is really saying. And he is a Cambrdge University man who spent the best part of 60 years as a missionary working on Galatians 2:20 and also all the faith passages of the Bible. Many of such people, truly forerunners who have pressed right through against incredible odds of a backward immature church world, and who are largely aged between 50 -90.
Many are on their spouses pensions...some who understand and some who don't. At this point hardly anybody on earth knows how all corporations dovetail into one pretty centralised control....of policy and belief and often money too....and ofcourse such saints are living precariously on these very pensions.)
Churches are hopeless because like the useless synagogues in Jesus time the people in them are there for highly bogus reasons.....and as Jesus found as soon as people really get delivered or healed the priests kick them out on their ear anyway.
(Churches are naive places, understanding very little about the whole Turnaround process of the gospels and the disciples. A bit like the organisation YWAM , our own Argentinian churches had the notion of creating young people's communities and doing the work of the gospels with us so we in turn could be sent out. But unlike Jesus, neither YWAM nor our churches had the first clue about what was in man. What CS LEWIS cryptically describes in his sci fi book....THAT HIDEOUS STRENGTH. So these poor pastors start leading us through into what were the first stages of Romans 7 breakdowns....and ofcourse when the demon strengths began manifesting and destroying their own families or their lives, they were completely unprepared....and not least because none of them had properly been through their own Romans 7 experience yet.)
(So if churches do not and cannot yet support this kind of reality of message, the first time in recent history when any attempt has been made at getting anywhere near the training of the gospels,....if this doesn't work yet we have to be like St Paul and arrange our own support)
So you get a job ....and because it's a corporation it's all about the abuse of the individual for the bottom line profit.....and the particular corporation or education entity turns out to be somehow Masonic...Round table or"straight A illuminati "anyway? (Like Monsanto or BASF or Procter and Gamble practically laundering Satanism pure into the earth)
3rd level answers only please (ie not answers from people who only experience "the Lord's provison" from either tithe extorted congregations, or from saints endlessly rechurning the first things gospel of Romans 3 to 5 and therefore have little or no firsthand experience in receiving their needs purely by faith like say George Mueller and his 19th Century orphanages entirely by faith with not even begging or pleading letters)
and not from blonds.....I am grey.
Jesus first bound the strong man....there's a clue.
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Tavita NevilleRoss and Kisa Emmanuel Amos like this.
Kisa Emmanuel Amos Very true!
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Tavita NevilleRoss Ego is not a dirty word
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Martin Revans I feel thick when I read your posts, Chris - they are a bit exclusive...
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"Nonnberg Nunnery kept meticulous records, and yet there’s no mention of Maria having attended there." writes Sue Von Trapped by Chris Welch
For many of us who were around to seeSound of Musicas youngsters it presented to us this incredible ideal, that those of us who then later found Jesus Christ and got caught up in the rediscovery of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit which swept through all the denominations in the 50s,60s and early 70s, was still some kind of signal to us of a Christian family all singing together.
I actually have clients on my round that do play music together as families. While still single for a while I was caught up in the environment of the incredible Levtov family locally here in Bognor Regis, themselves emigres from Russia in 1979 at the height of the Cold War.
Incredibly, as a player of 3 instruments myself you would have thought I'd have pushed for this myself in my own family, as I know my friend Marcus Roberts has done. But I was never sufficiently "sold" on the idea as an ideal in its own right. And that is really the subject of this blogpost. Von Trapped doesn't just mean "affected by the Von Trapps", it really describes being "Trapped" by an identity that is not quite real.
First Bible House in New Brighton Rd, Emsworth
Winsley House,Emsworth
Living in Christian community and having a policy of daily and sometimes twice daily worship gatherings here in this Emsworth house, and later in Winsley House, we really did have a "greenhouse" for creativity. No less than 4 to 6 of us were writing songs regularly, and others did on occasions. The local primary teachers noticed the high musicality of the primary school children living in the community. This was entirely a spinoff of community Christian Life, and is similar to the launchpad given to the great American song artists by their black gospel choirs.
For those who don't know, singing together generally is a powerful thing, but singing together from the heart of deeply shared beliefs is quite something else.We actually believe God meant what He said when He commanded praise. A secular person often describes this as a weakness in God who needs to be praised. Far from that rather, it is to rescue us from our inherent default since the Fall to be locked up in ourselves, in our leftbrain,totally unable to comprehend anything beyond what is immediately within our 5 sense range. Music is a primary parameter for conveying to our senses something of the glorious Presence of heaven. So God commands that we enter His Presence with thanksgiving and praise, focussing our view on the One True Life and Existence in the Universe.
But AS GLORIOUS as a life of music is together, and in our case we were among the first generation to explore the territory Ed Miller had pressed into which is complete abandon to the worship and adoration of God, and which he, and even more so, Jorge Pradas taught in all their churches.....
As glorious as this is there is a truth to be discovered from the daughter of Baron Von Trapp's first marriage,Maria Agatha Franziska Gobertina von Trapp , who after spending a life on stage with her other brothers and sisters, living the image of the film, suffered a cruel nervous breakdown. It should be said she always wanted to get married, but had no personal confidence in ever meeting and living with a "male outsider".
Unbeknown to most ouside Germany it should be added at this point that the "perfect idyllic" image of family conveyed in Sound of Music is not SO FAR REMOVED from the blue-eyed blond ideal of Hitler. You see for his enemies he was the sadistic arranger of the Holocaust, but internally he was the kindly avuncular protector of his people,seeking to right the "wrongs" of the Treaty of Versailles and very much a promulgator of the "good life", of "education", of "culture" of "family". Emsworth Community was a strange mixture. A mixture of philosophies. On the one hand we were expected to seek God as youngsters. Many of us had our first living experiences with how the Body of Christ gathers round and nurtures lives as they are literally stripped down and rebuilt in God's presence. This too, I discovered was the WAY the sisters of Mary had discovered in their community in Darmstadt near Frankfurt. When I visited in the summer of 1974, I was staying with the Lutheran Brothers of the Community. One was a Canadian ex teacher who, one year after arrival was only just beginning to find himself again as God was rebuilding him after virtually breaking down in the community.
But in the hinterground of all Spirit communities is still the lingering presence of the flesh life, because in secondlevel communities they still have not been to the rock bottom of Romans 7. They still think of themselves as "someone in their own right." This hubris we picked up in the Fall. So guess what? Where there is Satanlife still going on there is also the finger of the Accuser of the Brethren. Always this feeling that if you are ever schmuck enough to actually do what you are meant to be there for and let the Holy Spirit get to the root of all figleaves, you have some how "let the side down".And this is the peculiar mishmash in first and secondlevel churches right round the globe. As Jesus said of Pharisees and Sadducees....Do as they say....but don't do as they do.
We are looking for God Communities where people have the whole blueprint of Romans. Where the leaders have been through the whole process, not just part of the process.
In real Spirit terms, it's as natural normal and understandable as a seed breaking open in the Earth so the REAL THING CAN HAPPEN.
I think it's fair to say most of those "baptised into the grace message" of Romans 3 to 5 , and freely transmitting this message among Holy Spirit churches, do not have the first clue about Romans 6 to 8, and onwards into Paul's thirdlevel descriptions of intercession, in his case with regard to his own Jewish people.
Chapters like Matthew 25 which describes the parable of the 10 virgins coupled with the Parable of the Talents in which both demand "an increase in oil" and "an increase in talents" are a real problem to them.
But to people who understand that the Jesus life in them is a naturally productive life....and that this is now the sole Life we live from, don't have any problem with these scriptures whatsoever.
But there must be a falling into the ground.
"Unless a seed falls into the ground" says Jesus.
It's impossible to make this look flash and acceptable to the Pride of Life. This is why the devil just laughs it to scorn, as he did with Jesus on the cross.
In real Spirit terms, it's as natural normal and understandable as a seed breaking open in the Earth so the REAL THING CAN HAPPEN.
And this is the issue raised by the Von Trapp family ever circumnavigating the world with this "image" of perfect idyllic family life on the concert stage, but actually preventing the life stories of each Von Trapp from fully unfolding. Instead, more like Hitler, it becomes something very sinister and haunting.
The same thing is happening in Christian families, where the expectation is of this obedient,smiley, Flanders-esque family that is ever a presentation of what life is expected to be, rather than a belief in and a trust in our own spontaneous life to ever get us to the place we'd always dreamed inwardly that we wanted to be.
If we have "pulls" to the good or the bad....we cannot simply "push them down" and carry on in hiding as though they are not real. They are real for us. That doesn't make all of them right. But we have to find Jesus here...right here...not in an image of ourselves where we would like to be. Again, while not saying, sin is Jesus, I am not saying that. But I am saying Our story is Jesus story. He took us on. He knows causally why everything about us is so. What Jesus is bringing forth in us is so much greater than the muddy soil in which it is forming....the actual flowerbed becomes irrelevant. Nobody ever says, Oh what a lovely muddy texture that flowerbed is, they only remark on the plants and the flowers.....Unless they are gardeners!!!!
People have been laughing at the "round robin" letter that has taken shape over the last few years inside Christmas Cards. They have been venting about the sort of letter that tells of how proud parents are that Tarquin has done his Duke of Edinburgh award, and that Sophie has got her place in the first violins in the National Youth orchestra....and how utterly bad other parents feel when the only accomplishment they can immediately think of is breaking and entering an enemy stronghold in Call of Duty Black Ops 50 in the shortest amount of time.The point isn't to diss the Leftovs who have done such a singlemindedly fantastic job, but there's no family I know yet who really knows how to bring up their kids according to the overall 3rd level vision of Living our whole lives as Him in a living spontaneous way. This is the way Jesus alone found Himself "growing as a flower in desert parched land", and as we become established in it we can model it more and more clearly for the next generation.
Stills from Zefirelli : Jesus of Nazareth,YouTube Facebook Chris Welch:Praise God for a totally different Psalm 91 LIFE FORM in a cow trough!!!! A cow trough!!!! What does that tell you about the BREAD for the LIFE OF THE WORLD!!! Rich Novek:It tells me the Manna (daily portion of Christ IN us and as us) that comes from the unseen and unlimited Heaven is the only true Spiritual Food and Drink, born in the city named "House of Bread!"
Anne Parker: Manger Rap christmas... a manger- a stranger- come danger- look out...
Jesus a baby- now adult- look out. dangerous in peace- did that mean all war would cease- or maybe -war just begun? a war on what? peace..a war on babies took place... but Josephs' mob was on the pace.. King Herod was worried about losing face... Jesus- now adult- grown up- do we keep him contained in a cup of thought? i think we ought to grow up in view- of him...manger-danger? How about creating a glory story? iconic- ironic..
Why are we focussing on this manger? I know I am this Christmas.
My friend Tim Elwell was encouraged by two elders in Havant Church to tithe properly.
Knowing the two brothers Simon Waters and Tony Powell, I can hear myself as I was in the 90s in their conversation.
The general charismatic line of teaching uses Malachi 3:10 "Bring all the tithes into the storehouse", together with Abraham's encounter pre - Mosaic Law with Melchizedek the King of Salem when he gave him a tithe of all he had, to supposedly build a new Covenant picture of tithing. Benny Hinn taught us this in Birmingham 1991, and Juan Carlos Ortiz wrote openly along these lines learned from his Pentecostal roots.
This whole area is discussed in the Pastor Pyramid and Tithing.
What these brothers were doing in good faith was to get Tim in a "place of blessing" by opening his finances to the Kingdom.
Tim never found tithing to Havant Church to "work".
I must admit, from the 70s to quite recently I have found that my tithing did "work", but I tried to be sensitive to whom and to what I gave my tithe and offerings.
But what we are confusing is two things: GIVING and TITHES.
Giving is an openended New Covenant concept that simply states GIVE and it shall be given you, pressed down,full and overflowing. It makes NO sense to an accountant. Huge ministries run on this whole concept of supernatural addition when we give.
So this week, in a similar style to St Paul addressing Peter about circumcision, I addressed everyone equally, leaders and flock by email stating that just as Circumcision has been done away with, so has the Tithe.
We are NOT Jews. But We DO GIVE. More or less or nothing as led.
You see the real issue as Nancy Gilmore writes is that according to Romans 12 the new Covenant equivalent of the tithe is....
ALL OF US.
LIVING SACRIFICES.
Everything
Everything comes out from that.
But we need to open out our aperture, out from this issue of giving to a much wider view, and this is what my thinking has been centering on the manger this Christmas.
You see what Jesus is doing is frankly huge. It has bypassed the Jews, and now it seems it has bypassed the age of the church. Neither the Jews nor the Church "really get it." As I have said before.....EVERY MOUTH IS UNSTOPPED....no one, not one has recognised Jesus in the manger, nor Jesus in the Festival of the waving of the Sheaf on Resurrection Sunday morning.
In the next post I want to explain this more. Meanwhile as a pictorial illustration of what it is we are coming out from some of you may want to examine the two sides of the argument. It has become unnecessarily heated and in times past many of these sort of conflicts would never get reported and people of the world would be totally confused why say Lutherans suddenly parted from Catholics, or Anabaptists and Baptists splitting from the eucharistic denominations, and the Brethren from the one man ministry denominations....and so it goes on as God the Holy Spirit gives Light on what has always existed as a Pattern in the Heavenlies, but mankind was too wrapped up in his secular ways to bother looking intently enough.
As a result of the visit by the elders to Tim Chris writes:
Peter and Mariette,
I was very concerned to hear about Jonathan and
Tony's visit to Tim Elwell.
Not the bulk of it, nor that they expressed enough
concern to visit.
But the insistance on the tithe.
As churches press on into God, you will soon find
yourselves on your
own in the old tithe belief.
I find it strange that God can speak to you about
softening your leadership
pyramid style of 15 years ago, and still you
believe that we have to "do" anything
with regard to our salvation.
Like circumcision, this is not a demand of the New
Covenant.
Instead we participate in an invitation to join
the Kingdom Giving cycle
where we give and it is given us, pressed down
etc.
We give as led. We support those in ministry, as
led,and give to the poor
and the general advance of the
Kingdom.
Not even our right hand knows what our left is
doing.
(The way Havant still runs....if we pay by cheque
all and sundry
know what we are doing...AND DEMAND A TITHE to an
institution
with charity status that is wrongly termed a
church. A church is an ekklesia
made up entirely of those who are moving together
on Word from the Living God.
"All those in a local area who are believers and
call upon the Living God together")
Those who give Word , or are mature, know God is
their life, and know God is their supplier.
If not enough is coming in, they go out and do a
job, or do something self-employed.
In the Kingdom this is the norm. Only in worldly
church systems is this deemed
a "shame" or a "failure".
In fact the "shame of Christ" is continually heaped
on us as God's people,
and this is all part of surging forward with the
Cross of Jesus.
So , one principle wasn't communicated to Tim and one
wrong one was.
Tim said, since i am only receiving £150 a week i
cannot afford to pay a tithe.
As we all know, anything we give to God, God
honours and either gives more
back, or in the widow and the cruse story, expands
what we have. So we
don't lose by it.
The ONLY requirement that we have is given in Romans 12.
The laying down of all we are,all we have, all agendas,all thought of
what we will ever be,who we think we are,what we even think is God's
will...
Everything is open and laid bare before God.....we lay it all down as
living
sacrifices....and whatever we hear the Lord tell us to do we do it.
There's no talk of tithe.
There's no talk of church on Sundays.
Because the first requisite has been done, and everything else is
fluid
around it.
And Romans 12 is the result of 11 packed chapters of solid gold
revelation
which is the outcome of laying the foundation of Christ in a group of
believers.
You can't even get to Romans 12 if you haven't laid the Christ
revelation.
So now are you beginning to see why Paul funded himself?
He funded himself to give God's own Word and Grace to kick in
properly
in groups of believers....so that when they did respond it would be a Holy
Spirit
response. It would actually be Christ Himself responding in a
believer.
Havant was built at a time when we were all still working out what the
gospel was.
It's on a mixture of sand and pure Rock. The Rock bit grows and
expands.
The sandy bit just sit there like stuffed olives and never change year in
year out.
And nor can they. Only Christ grows of Himself. As Jesus Himself
found, you can have Andy Elmes sized multitudes, but
when you get to John 6, they all walk off anyway. The only growth in the
Kingdom comes
from 12 who get to understand there is an "exchange of life". And,
actually, that's all you
need. Because when Christ transplants Himself
it's explosive
it's exponential
it's 12 times 12 times 12 or much more....
I can see Jonathan Bundy and Tony Powell being called by the
synagogue
to check out Jesus and the 12 disciples.
"Ummmm we noticed you weren't in the synagogue today?"
"No, we were down on the shore today preaching to a few thousand."
" So you were neither in the synagogue, nor paying your tithes?"
" No, not today. Today the Spirit led us to the shore"
" I see you are picking grain in the field on the Sabbath....."
"Yes we're quite peckish now....."
Chris
Ed Harding of New Wine Ministries, and in Havant writes:
Well as everyone got circulated I'm feeling like having
a go too , as there is some confusion what the Bible actually
says !!
You need to read Matthew 5:18-19 - the key passage to
understand all this .
The Law has NOT been abolished . Verse 18 is very clear
about that.
I hear Christians , including you , Chris , saying the
Law has been abolished .
Jesus says the opposite ! It's there in black and white
in verse 18 - or red if you have a red letter Bible !
Be very careful you don't bring the judgement of verse
19 on yourself .It's a serious warning.
What has been abolished is the requirement to KEEP the
Law, which is very different and so our righteousness is established now by
faith alone .
Christians are not required to KEEP the Law, including
the law of the tithe.
Paul picks up the argument in Romans and concludes in
Romans 3:31 ..We UPHOLD the Law.
Again we don't KEEP it . We can't , but we do UPHOLD it
. What does that mean?
So carrying it from there the Law of the tithe has NOT
been abolished , however we not required to KEEP it , as part of the Law. That
distinction is crucial to an understanding of grace and New Testament theology ,
including Galatians 5 :1 all about our freedom.
Fast forward to Romans 3:31 and the way you UPHOLD the
Law is to honour God with the tithe , but NOT to keep the Law !
As so many people got circulated I do hope this helps
bring clarity and we are indeed free from the OBLIGATION to keep the Law to be
righteous.
Nevertheless those who do seek to UPHOLD ( not KEEP !)
the Law and honour God with the tithe
are following sound biblical principles , but not under
compulsion.
That's freedom and grace , and why God loves a cheerful
giver.
Christmas blessings to everyone on the circulation
list!
Ed
Chris replies Dear All, I'm glad you raised this Ed (comment above) 17 “Do
not think that I came to abolish the Law
or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.18 For truly I say to you, until
heaven and earth pass away, not [h]the smallest letter or stroke shall
pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these
commandments, and teaches [i]others to do the same, shall
be called least in
the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [j]keeps and teaches them, he
shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness
surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the
kingdom of heaven. Jesus
did indeed fulfil all things. As a Jew. We are
not Jews. So
somehow we have to allow the Spirit to show us what " keeping the smallest
letter or stroke of the Law means" Because
it doesn't mean circumcision It
doesn't mean not eating bacon or winkles and shellfish
And it doesn't
mean tithing to a priesthood....there isn't one....we all
are. It's not
quite what the Catholic Church told us 1600 years ago. There's
no pyramid pastor.There are overseers who are simply just more
mature in the
faith, and older, so they are called elders. Some
ministries are fulltime, some are parttime, some hold down jobs full
time. We are
instructed to give to the household of faith. The
amount is unspecified. And the household of faith include those
believers who are
living by faith. Those with jobs have their own
funding. Those
widows, or those without jobs, or ministries looking to the Lord
fulltime... these
are the household of faith. Tithing
to certain ministries means by definition they are not looking to the
Lord anymore
than a salaried person. or self employed person is when things get
tough. We are
free to do all things, give nothing,give 5%,give 10% give 90%. The New
Covenant has
nothing to do with the amount we give. We are
justified by faith and the work of God is simply believing in the One who lives
my Life now He
has entered.
As a father in the faith I must insist on this, for laying
any other foundation is not Christ. We do
what the Spirit of God tells us, and particularly in the realm of giving we
hardly let our left
hand even know what we are doing.
Kay Elwood has said she felt the Body
of Christ is under attack. I am here by the Spirit of the Lord to
say Jerusalem too felt under attack when Jesus opened His mouth, because
what they heard was attack. I am
attacking ofcourse, any self-reliance,or attempt at self-righteousness since
Christ has truly done all
things. Some of you need to stop tithing and rest. You need to look again at
your Saviour and listen to Him. Tithing
absolutely is not part of the New Covenant and never was, any more than not
eating bacon was. While
as I wrote before,giving everything to Him so He can take it
all through the Cross, is. But what that means in practice for each is up to
Him and His Spirit
to show for He has been poured out to lead us into
all Truth. Chris Kay Elwood writes
Dear chris.
Matthew 23v23- tells us Jesus says that tithes and integrity go hand in
hand. He has strong words to say to the nitpicking critical Pharisees. He says
they have tithed even their herbs and spices whilst neglecting important matters
of the law- like justice, mercy and faithfulness. He then says they should do
both. in other words its not just outward actions but our heart attitude and
that works its way out in our words and actions.
And 1timothy 5v17 (NIV) says the Elder who directs the affairs of the
church well are worthy of double honour (AMP)- and of adequate financial
support), especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. And, the
worker deserves his wages.
Over 30 years of being a part of the body of Christ here I have no doubt
that our Elders have led us and directed us well. We have first hand experience
of their love , care ,help and direction personally and as a body.
We are more than happy to tithe and give offerings. We want our Elders to
be blessed. And I'm pretty sure most people don't tell their bosses if you feel
like paying me then pay me you want. God is a God of order and so is the world
He created and His kingdom runs on good sound principles.
Shalom.
Kay Ellwood
Chris Replies
Thanks for sharing that Kay. If we were talking about a Company we would
have a contract. And as a freewill step we willingly sign up or not. I had to
(do that with a company)recently, and I accepted in writing that every day was equal to me, so I will be
working Christmas Day at normal rates. Since 400 AD we have carried over many
beliefs just by momentum. We never checked them over in the Spirit. One recent
one was the notion of one pyramid head, priest/vicar/ pastor. There is no trace
of this in the NT. Nor tithing. The synagogue rabbi is not how the Body of
Christ now works. Nor tithing. But for those living by faith...sure, we are
invited to give. But just as Elaine Waterfield now lives by dependance on God
targeting the virgin region of Migori, so do all new covenant ministries. In the
Spirit there is no permission given to demand a tithe, this comes from the
carnal mind, just as does laying out an Anglican Church in the form of a Temple
with a Holy of Holies at the back. You can see where it comes from- great idea
pictorially- but actually from the pit of hell.
Chris Sent from my BlackBerry®
smartphone
Kay writes
Chris
Faith isn't faith unless its based on something God says. Its presumption.
In my bible it says if a man doesn't work then neither shall he eat. Its not
faith when a person lets it be known they don't work For a living they live by
faith. Thats virtually asking people for money and no doubt its the people that
get told that pay the money to support such a lifestyle. Even Paul was a tent
maker to earn a living whilst preaching the gospel , and you couldn't call him a
man who didn't live by faith. I think I'll stick with what the bible teaches,
and the Holy Spirit witnesses with my spirit, and over 50 years of living this
Christian confirms. I choose to live by faith on a daily basis to. And I hear
The Lord clearly. I'd also prefer not to discuss this anymore. It's not
faith building nor is it going anywhere. Our salvation isn't at stake here
thank The Lord. Blessings Kay Chris writes
Kay,
That is exactly right. Faith isn't faith unless it's based on something God
says. In Martin's(Kay's husband) case, if He has heard something specific about the Muslim
world then God will supply and God will make clear. You write:
In my bible it says if a man doesn't work then neither shall he eat. Its
not faith when a person lets it be known they don't work For a living they live
by faith.
This is the way George Mueller felt to run things it is true. I heartily
already agreed with you. I wrote here
Those who give Word , or are mature, know
God is their life, and know God is their supplier.
If not enough is coming in, they go out and
do a job, or do something self-employed.
In the Kingdom this is the norm. Only in
worldly church systems is this deemed
a "shame" or a
"failure".
In fact the "shame of Christ" is
continually heaped on us as God's people,
and this is all part of surging forward
with the Cross of Jesus.
However the New Covenant is free. Isaiah 55 and
John 7 specifically talk about God's water of Life being free.
The whole New Covenant community is described in
Psalm 110...as those volunteering freely in the Day of His Power.
The Day of His Power began in Acts 2 and still
continues.
The Levitical code of tithing to a priesthood or
now a group of ministries is over. The gospel only progresses as we GIVE
OURSELVES.
Romans 12 as I have said demands
everything.
What "everything " means at any instance is up to
the Holy Spirit.
Ministries do not have the jurisdiction to claim a
tithe, to live from a tithe.
It is very interesting you writing :It's not faith
when a person lets it be known they don't work . Because that is exactly what
ministries HAVE done since 400 AD in the Catholic Church. We know they do
work. Actually they are salaried employees of a system that operates just like
a worldly business, and it certainly IS NOT OF
FAITH, because they equally have announced
they are not supported so PAY UP. This has to
stop in the Body of Christ if we are ever to rise to maturity. The Gospel is
Free or it
is nothing. We all support each other as led by the
Holy Spirit.
Chris
Simon Waters replies
Dear Chris Your concern for Tim is good. I would however like to make
three observations. 1. The New testament clearly talks about the care we as
the body of Christ need to have for those having a hard time. I presume that as
well as writing emails you have fed him, given money to him and offered shelter/
accommodation to him. 2. The New Testament also talks about the way that
correction is carried out. If you have taken exception to what Jonathan and Tony
said I presume you spoke to them first, then, when you got no satisfaction, you
spoke to the leaders and then... well that comes in number three. 3. As Kay
has said, I too totally and unconditionally love, respect and support our
leaders. To me they demonstrate the love and heart of God both to those in our
part of the body of Christ as well as those outside it. I delight to come under
their authority just as they come under God's authority and make themselves
accountable to others. I cannot help but wonder why, if you feel so strongly
about this matter, that you are not actively looking for a fellowship where you
are happy with the leaders and their theology. You may have noticed that I have only addressed this to those in the chain
that you should have spoken to. In choosing to trash the leaders of Portsdown in
the broad way you did I for one feel that you should not enter the building
without first apologizing to the leaders and following that you should apologise
to the body. I feel hurt by your words- and they are not even aimed at me! I have appreciated many of the words you have brought in the past, but St
Paul is quite clear about those who prophesy without love in 1Cor 13. Please consider what I have put forward and feel free to correct me if I have
been out of line. Your brother Simon I was annoyed by the phrase "trash the leadership" since my heart isn't about trashing anybody, but just getting folk to understand they are Jesus as them, and to so get that, that they have it by consciousness."
So I wrote.....Simon, I think you ought to take back the remark about trashing the leadersship
immediately Simon. Since when does pointing out the wrongdoing of demanding a
tithe from a New Covenant community constitute trashing leaders? St Paul
corrected St Peter infront of all inorder that they may all learn by it. The
gospel is free. No circumcision. No tithing. There simply is no requirement
other than love and giving by that love. It's an understandable mistake. We have
all carried this teaching over from 400AD without asking the Holy Spirit. As for
Tim. Ask him. You are a good brother but it is important to get under your
skin a bit in order that you grow. We have had an incredibly bland relationship
you and I. Most unreal. Chris Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone
I then thought....if Havant actually allowed me freedom to share what would I say, how would I lead things?I put this on Facebook Just out of interest what would be the Word I would share with Havant Church, a
30 year old church that is very similar to IHOP? I think I'd run through the
basics again. The fact that ALL the work has been done. I'd describe again what
actually happened when Christ was crucified and all of them were brutally
murdered by Death himself inside Jesus, and how the Spirit raised each one of
them up in Christ, hidden,interleaved and
interwoven in Christ in God. That not one bit of Bible reading,praising,going
to church,praying,soaking,was ever going to improve what has already been done
on their insides. Maybe for a while I'd cancel church, all Bible reading, all
quiet times so that they begin to leave all these umbilical chords to start to
find Jesus own life within them as them, and maybe initially meet up in
restaurants and pubs to share how they have been getting on. It would be a total
100% fast from all their tricks of the trade which they usually use to get that
outside God of theirs to bless them every week. Maybe I'd ban tithing and
offerings for a while so that they know they cant buy God's blessings either. I
might let them give to each other meanwhile...especially the poorer ones. It
would be a time of humbling for the leaders who have enjoyed instant dosh for
years...though I know there have been hard periods. Nothing like for us lot
though, who have had to find every scrap of cash ourselves. Gradually as we
observe how Jesus is living in each one, and the sort of ways God was quickening
them to actually be the Body of Christ in their own right, and not some general
fuzzy shadow in the limelight of leadership....we'd try and aid and abet that
process, just being sensitive to what Christ was doing in them. Those that
felt confident could then begin sharing what this new life in them was starting
to be about. Perhaps we'd invite other non -believers to take a listen at this
point and maybe ask questions. Basically, like the tremendous disruption God
caused in the very first church in Acts, we'd let the Holy Spirit completely
overturn every fragment of what Havant Church considered to be their Christian
life, individually or coporately, until at last people felt they were at least
properly entering the growth stage which John called "young men", or Romans 6 to
8. I'd try to have a lot of grace with Peter, and Mariette and John and Wendy
Wilbraham, because of the good that they have achieved, but I'd try to be open
to the Spirit to let Him break every last shred of Old Covenant domination in
the church, until it really began to look like the description in
Ephesians.....EVERYONE BUILDING THEMSELVES UP IN LOVE.....fitly joined by that
which Every every every every....Joint supplies.
To which Simon starts to react a bit like chief packdog rounding up the herd
Dear all, If you are starting to get fed up with Chris' pontifications-
like the pope , being infallible in his judgements on us mere mortals; if you
are getting frustrated by his harshness on our church and our friends in
leadership; if you are annoyed at his attempts to introduce disunity into our
fellowship there is one simple step to take- select his email, identify it as
spam and from then on his turbulence will pass you by. Remove him from your
Facebook friends if his diatribes reach you there- and pray for him. Not that he
would become like us but rather he would experience the fullness of all God has
for him. Happy Christmas Simon Meanwhile Kay's husband Martin writes
Hi
Chris,
As much as I like
you as a bloke, and as much as you’re entitled to your views on matters, you’re
now running the risk of being divisive.
And you don’t wanna
do that….
You know the Bible
well, right? You’ll know Titus 3:9-11.
9
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments
and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and
useless.
10
Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time.
After that, have nothing to do with him.
11
You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is
self-condemned.
Strong
words. Not mine, not yours, God’s. And they’re beginning to apply to you, in my
opinion….
Please
stop digging a hole for yourself. Please back off, get some perspective, and
discuss matters humbly, in the right manner and via the right forum, which
doesn’t include blasting people with circular emails.
I pray
you, Christine and Ben have a relaxing, enjoyable and peaceful
Christmas.
Your
brother in Jesus,
Martin
Martin I have said all I need to say. You now know why the Lord didn't
permit it until now even though I have been among you 12 years or so. In order
that there be a heavenly record it needed saying once, whereas I have sat
patiently through years and years and years of all your stuff. You can simply
not say that is not fair. If I had said things first, even though I found them
out 24 years ago, you would all have excuse. But saying them once after giving
you all 12 years is extremely fair . What you are now doing is reacting like a
set of packdogs, because your common belief system has been attacked. It would
be no different if you Martin actually had the courage and mandate from the Lord
to share the baptism in the Spirit a mere 500 yds from you in the Havant URC and
questioned the validity of what they were trying to achieve week by week. We are
where we are in God by our own choice and our own willingness to hear. John 7:19
I believe Think about what you have written. We as a group do not like what you
say. The bible does not like troublemakers Therefore the Bible is calling
you into question. Now think. Jesus overturns tables Jews don't
like anyone causing disruption in the temple. It's a holy place. Therefore
and logically Jesus is not holy. Let's kill him. Identical logic. Can
you not see that? Chris
Conclusion
Thank God when He gives us His Spirit He gives us the whole deal and doesn't wait for our doctrine to catch up.
If anyone went to Havant URC (just down the road from our church) to talk to them, it would be the same deal. Jesus has done all these things.
They may have a hard time with things of the Spirit....but Jesus has actually poured out the same Spirit
for the URC as well, they just aren't making use of the package that came included in the Cross.
You would think from some of these replies from Havant Church that they have a lot to learn...but the real truth thankfully is that they are a lot further on in the Spirit than they are in headknowledge. I think it is
true to say very few of them have caught galations 2:20 yet, so once you get them outside of a worship setting, they are right back into linear thinking again.
In the next post i want to lay out why Jesus coming in a manger is such a big deal.
It is the third and final stage of the
Incarnation of Jesus Christ in your form. Your spirit has been saved.
Your spirit has grown and bust out into your soul. "As you received
Christ as Lord so now walk in Him." "As He is ,so are we in the world".
It is Ephesians 6. The reality of Chapters 1-3 have been worked out in
your environment chapters 4 and 5, now you're "fully
awake", risen from the dead, and you are going into action. Thirdlevel
Christianity spells the end of the devil's rule on earth.
It is another
order of Christianity.
It is the Order of Melchizedek with fully grown
legs.
It is the full message of the Cross to bring the obedience of
faith to nations.
Paul Anderson-Walsh
(on Facebook):I was thinking this morning what a nice reminder the [luxury] Christmas cracker is for those of us who insist on trying to become good by being good. The truth is we can't what we need to do is to discover the good that is inside. Oh and here's the thing, the discovery requires that you're pulled apart and you might go bang...! But it's all good. Wishing all our FB friends a wonderful Christmas &New Year.
Actually
the more you think about that illustration,the more you are left
reeling.Think about it? The cracker is designed for one purpose
only.Though it does look good on the table...if that's all it did, you'd
be back to the shop pronto! I think
Paul has hit on something far bigger than has quite impacted him yet.
Third level Christianity is "the repeated and continual cracker
existence". Its function is not to look good. It's function is something
similar to the repeated explosive movement with spark plugs and pistons
in an engine. We are weak,and He becomes strong. We are buffeted, and
others are recreated in Him. We are left for dead, others find life. We
look down and see shambles,more of a laughing stock actually,the dregs
of the whole world, a broken cracker....but in that explosion, the
treasure that we always knew personally, IS MADE SUDDENLY AVAILABLE and
accessible for others. The Gideon striking the pots moment. I think this
is another chapter in Paul's final trilogy part.
@Chris,
I like that... "The Christmas-'cracker" life, is a cracking life. The
other thing that occurs to me is that inside each cracker is a riddle (a
dark saying as they're referred to in the Proverbs) these little
cryptic clues are clue ...to the divine, more than this, beside the gift
that nestles inside each cracker is a crown, a crown of life one might
say, that is place on the head of all who are broken in Christ.See
more
21 minutes ago
·
Chris WelchI'll amend my blog.Like it.It was
really hitting me tho, what Fred Pruitt has been saying so much. And Brian Coatney. "This treasure in an earthen vessel". You see charismatic
life claims to be spiritual by saying "I'm believing for healing, for
money, for a nice job and a nice wife and kids"....and they're like
static "possessions". It is true in many cases, these things have been
believed for by faith....reaching against all odds into the unseen. So
as first fruits of faith you cannot gainsay it. But it is still seeing
"after the flesh". Categorising and pigeonholing into a "looks good
pile" and a "looks bad pile". Whereas the 3rd level way of seeing is
catching what God is doing through everything....even a cracker that now
doesnt look its best...because it's not actually meant to...it has gone
bang, and is now yielding up its inner fruit.5
minutes ago ·
Wings and Wheels is an annual event, which like the Goodwood events focus on fast cars, but have the added dimension of display after display of tightly choreographed and highly skilled plane manouevres. One of the main attractions just has to be the Red Arrows.
This post is dedicated to them , but is going to use them as an image alongside Gideon's three hundred from Judges 7, David's Mighty men from 1 Chronicles 11 :10 - 47 and ofcourse the 12 apostles followed closely by the apostle Paul.
The pictures are taken from a stunning double A4 spread in the Dunsfold brochure.
"Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." 2 The LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion; you will rule in the midst of your enemies.
3 Your troops will be willing on your day of battle. Arrayed in holy majesty, from the womb of the dawn you will receive the dew of your youth.
In Psalm 24 verse 3 - 7 Who may ascend the hill of the LORD ? Who may stand in his holy place?
4 He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to an idol or swear by what is false. [a]
5 He will receive blessing from the LORD and vindication from God his Savior.
6 Such is the generation of those who seek him, who seek your face, O God of Jacob. [b] Selah
7 Lift up your heads, O you gates; be lifted up, you ancient doors, that the King of glory may come in.
In 2 Timothy 2:19-21 19Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness." 20In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for noble us noble purposesand some for ignoble. 21If a man cleanses himself from the latter, he will be an instrument for noble purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.
In Matthew 24:38 - 44 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and theyknew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. 42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
In Joel 2 : 6- 9 6 At the sight of them, nations are in anguish; every face turns pale.
7 They charge like warriors; they scale walls like soldiers. They all march in line, not swerving from their course.
8 They do not jostle each other; each marches straight ahead. They plunge through defenses without breaking ranks.
9 They rush upon the city; they run along the wall. They climb into the houses; like thieves they enter through the windows.
AC Welch continues: I touched on the subject of Jesus being our first love here in the Tree of Good post God gave us 10 commandments. But the first one is the key to everything. Deuteronomy 6:5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength; which is the fuller description to "You shall have no other gods before me" in Exodus 20:3 .
Various translations of Psalm 25:14 NIV The LORD confides in those who fear him; he makes his covenant known to them. New Living Trans The LORD is a friend to those who fear him. He teaches them his covenant. GODS WORD 1995 The LORD advises those who fear him. He reveals to them the intent of his promise. NASV The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will show them his covenant.
This is not a Rehearsal this is going on Now There are two types of situations that God's glory rests upon. In the Spirit they are the same. They are a place of first love. There are those like Mary Magdalan who literally crash into the grace of God having lived a life of deep sin and rebellion. Those who are forgiven much love much. I wrote to evangelist Steve Cattell on Facebook "We never hear anything more about "Mary Magdalen the sinner" in the gospels.
Don't ever forget that she became the NO.1 special agent who was used to undercover what happened to Jesus.
She was so changed God used her to effectively open the Door to the new Kingdom era!
She found Jesus alive! Even the apostles had a hard time believing her. This is the trouble with Kingdom stuff...its too fantastic for us. We are way behind, trying to catch up with God.
The other type of situation are those who seek God early in life. This is literally the fulfilment of "they seek Him early". God honours teens and young adults who honour Him. Every hormone in your body is pulling on you to do otherwise. God honours this purity. He shows and reveals Himself to such, and rests upon them in a particularly unique way to reveal Himself to others.
The order of Melchizedek, this order that Jesus operates from has this rather weird aspect to it.The wisdom of man honours those who are old and experienced. The order of Melchizedek honours those at any age who have this first love for Jesus. By means of the empowering of the Holy Spirit, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, children of five and six, younger teens and older teens like Evan Roberts in the Welsh Revival, can receive direct from this "Eternal Now" order of God and literally impart heaven's atmosphere into a gathering of saints, or friends and family.
The Order of Melchizedek, this Kingdom of the Eternal Now is always on. It is never switched off. It is always waiting for us to get caught up in it. This is revival atmosphere. This is what Norman Grubb calls experiencing continuous revival. We don't wait for a first level, second level, third level to manifest fully in our life. God's Kingdom is "wheels within wheels" (Ezekiel). From day one of knowing Jesus we can experience Ephesians chapter 1 and 2, being seated with Christ in the heavenly places. Since the Cross, Jesus has legitimized this experience ready for every man, woman and child on the Earth.
Those young people who experience this order full on, don't want sex, drugs,highs of other types. God's Presence is like no other form of intoxification....it stands alone in leaving you intact.Or rather , afterwards you are MORE intact than you were before.But you are not particularly religious....because you manifest internal reality...not a fake outer cloak of religion.
How do I know these things? It is my life story since the age of 13. And although I rebelled as a Christian, God keeps you from the worst ravages of prolonged rebellion, teaching you His ways and the clever protection techniques that are in His Word, in His Presence, and now, above all in His Grace. All while the real process for which He called us is going on....the reproduction of Himself inside us, as us, expressed by our own unique personalities. From the womb of the dawn you will receive the dew of your youth Ps110. This is a clever phrase because it means both things I have been writing about. Those who seek Him early in life. But those who receive the grace of God later on in life receive back from God "the dew of a new youth", from the womb of the dawn of the NEW ETERNAL DAY.....the Eternal Now.
Selection
This third level people who appear from nowhere, marching in step,facing forward, with one intent, "seeing only one thing" with a single eye...
have already been through a selection process. An unconscious selection process. We see from the scriptures above....nobody knows it is going on. In Judges 7, Gideon selects from 32,000 people first those who do not have fear, then secondly and secretly, those who drink in a certain way, expressing the "single eye", the first love. In David's case, the mighty men revealed themselves in unfavorable circumstances while gathered around their "possible" new King. The promises rested upon David's life, but it sure didn't look possible most of the time they were going from cave to cave with him in the wilderness. They were totally unaware that a selection process was already underway. Jesus was already surrounded by many disciples, but only 12 were chosen to be his 3rd level special ops. on the day of Acts 2.
When we live from "first love" , we unconsciously are being selected for these special ops, like Mary Magdalen's Kingdom opening special op.,(special operation) alongside Mary mother of Jesus, who had already fixed herself by her verbal confession "Be it unto me according to your Word".
Matthew 24 is a passage beloved of final days studies, but the truth is that passage is always and continuously being fulfilled through history. Certain people fill the criteria. They are removed, or singled out for remaining while the others are removed....to singlehandedly push anti-slavery laws through Parliament....to bring revival....to effect changes on a world level ....like Harriet Beecher Stowe in America through her book Uncle Tom's Cabin.
We choose in the end, it says in 2 Timothy 2, whether we are going to be that noble vessel, useful to the Master, ready for His particular special OPs. We draw near to Him....but then we learn all the secrets of His covenant.
That none of it is of ourselves
That it's always by His grace
That more specifically it is Him in us and through us.
How do we learn all this? By seeking Him. By waiting on Him as in Psalm 123 verse 2
As the eyes of slaves look to the hand of their master, as the eyes of a maid look to the hand of her mistress, so our eyes look to the LORD our God, till he shows us his mercy.
We become a qavah people, where qavah means to wait upon with expectation, but also to bind together with, to join ourselves intimately with. This is learning Christ as me in the same way Jesus learned the Father as Him. He did nothing unless He saw the Father doing it. How do you come to the "seeing"....through the qavah process. The Lord (2 Tim 2) needs to be allowed to KNOW, to entwine with those who are His....and then they will have power to turn away from wickedness.
When I was a teen hearing the message of first love through Mother Basilea Schlink, and another young American who stormed into a Christian school in India...believing for the whole school to be converted....and got it....
what I heard was "works". I heard loving Jesus as a verb, as a "work", as though i had to do certain things for Him to love me.
First love for Jesus is not that. It is a Divine response from inside of me, to a Divine First Move that was demonstrated above all in some open arms pegged out on a Cross. But guess what? The Holy Spirit has been given to shed this same love abroad in our hearts, in order to give us, to birth in us, the Divine tools with which to respond to our Lover.
We believe on His Word. We act on His Word. He births His Word in us. If I had to stop sinning to show Him how much I love Him, I would not need His salvation. We stop sinning as we learn the Truth about who we really are, who God is, who other people are, and as we begin experiencing the reality of His Presence. The other would be the same as all the other religions on earth. Christianity is different. It is joining ourselves to Another's Life. The life of Jesus.
Believing on the power of His life is what connects us instantly to the Melchizedek order, and more longterm is the anchor sunk in the heavenly sea floor, which enables us to reel our boat in...such that it's a DEAD CERT that we will reach maturity....
the Third Level
The father stage
as God literally shapes us and the rest of our life around the same Spirit realities that we may have learned as teenagers....
that we have died with Christ
that our lives are hidden with Christ in God
that as Ephesians says, we are seated at the right hand of Christ in God.
It's important to continually lay this grace foundation, because sometimes, just sometimes.....I had to wonder with Basilea, and with Ed Miller....that their gospel sounded a tad elitest.
Before talking about the Red Arrows I have to stress this....our selection for special ops is based entirely on us focussing on what Jesus has already done....or else it would be works. Any response we make to the obedience He demands of us, as we become more and more connected to Him, is a response of faith and trust in our Saviour. But our response to Him proves our believing ON HIM, and not just in Him. When Jesus asks a cripple to stand up....the grace and faith is there for a Divine miracle...but the ACTION of the cripple, though tentative it may be, proves a belief ON the Saviour, not an intellectual acquiescence only.
So, I've said that from the moment we believe God has connected us to His Son in the heavenlies, the Holy of Holies. We don't wait for years until we're holy enough. We're dead. We're not going to get any more holy. We are no more. Now our lives are hidden with Christ in God. Nevertheless in a bigger arc, God is maturing us as inheritors of His nature and active participants of His plans here on earth. And we do actually pass through stages of growth every bit as real as in our natural lives. Then in an even bigger arc, there is a worldwide maturation of the sons of God, as we've moved from evangelicalism, to an introduction into God's power realms, on now to Him reproducing everything that was in His Son as He walked the earth into a fantastic worldwide Body of interlinked saints exploring what it means to walk Him as me. Facebook and blogs are playing a role in this.
No show
So now I want to talk about this thirdlevel people, similar to the Red Arrows above.
There's no showiness. A matter of factness. A grim resolve.Get the job done. No frills.A concern with the bottom line. Unity of purpose. Total team-mindedness. No one stands out from the rest. Except perhaps....
Kirsty Moore
Think of another generation when this would have been possible? The CRACK RAF squadron par excellence with a female member, who is there not because of political correctness....but because of merit. She's darned good at flying in formation. Any other reason would be dangerous.
In the 3rd level, gender is pretty irrelevant. You either know Christ as you...
Or you don't.
It's too late to fake it.
And anyway the selection process has already taken place.....without you knowing. You just got on with the job....and prepared your life....as in the above scriptures
one will be taken, the other left....
so shall it be in the days of the "Coming" of the Son of Man.
The parable of the 10 Virgins in Matthew 25. Only five hunted down that extra supply of oil.
This is the first generation where women stand alongside men equally sharing the father principles of Christ as Our Life. I am not talking about women priests in Anglican churches, or even women bishops. I am talking Spirit realities which are recognised as being already active in people's lives by all sorts of other men and women of faith whatever tag they may hold, worldwide.
Third levellers don't show up at all in any other context than THE AIR!
The most thirdlevel stuff in our local church is the Key of David Meetings and Key of David conferences. This same dynamic was beginning to show up in the Florida Outpouring two years ago. It is a revival dynamic. Norman Grubb calls 3rd level living : Living in continuous revival. Many Christians refer to it as Eagle living referring to the qavah/waiting on God scripture....those that wait upon the Lord shall renew/increase their strength, they shall MOUNT UP as eagles. More on this subject here
Unless you knew what the "reds" (Red Arrows) were about to do....absolutely no clue could be gained from observing them in civvies walking around Tesco, or Sainsbury's. Some may be extremely skilled at talking...bet yer Kirsty knows how to natter....
others with the fantastic spatial skills required for flying may be extremely taciturn. You just wouldn't have a clue at how incredible these people are from seeing them walk around. Why? Everyone walks around. But it's not their milieu.
Sometimes the ONLY place I register locally is in the Key of David meetings. I'm becoming less and less of a meeting man.....but if there must be meetings, let them be 3rd level ones.
The point of this 3rd level revolution is precisely this. It's NOT about meetings. It's about WALKING. As He is in the world, so ARE WE.
Nobody looking at Norman Grubb would guess what was really going on. But in the hidden spiritual places, "THE AIR", Norman had set his confession, that there was coming a time when the Body of Christ would know that there was more to life than a "separation" existence - us and God....that God both was and wanted to be a good deal more immanent than that....and that's what Norman had set his face to until his dying day....with, I must say....nothing more than a few green shoots worldwide to show for his pains....but as a 3rd leveller...he died in faith , trusting God to complete the intercession granted to him.
Nobody knew what Basilea Schlink was accomplishing in her ministry. Nobody could guess what was happening through Ed Miller as he wrestled over Argentina. Nobody could see the significance of Lydia Prince obeying the call to an Appointment in Jerusalem. Originally no one had a clue as to the significance of a Albanian nun called Mother Teresa who had spent 40 years getting fixed in Christ, suddenly called to the slums of Calcutta. Less still, could anyone get any purchase on the phases in Rees Howells life as he was then called to take on the Dictators IN THE AIR. Read Norman Grubb's biography of Rees Howells from here
"The moment of the explosion would be precipitated and lit by the elect ones who were above the storm. Each one of them individually, had to open as if it were a door inside them and they also had to enter an even higher place of communication with Christ, which at the same time, would open their inner doors to the manifestation in great power of this force of light."
This is about thirdlevel special ops. About the mature in Christ.
Just as it would be impossible to even conceive of the Red Arrows before Orville and Wilbur Wright's First Air flight in 1903, so it is hard for charismatics to be able to conceive that there is a third level. Third levellers don't necessarily show up that well on charismatic radar screens. The third level is not about the latest song. It is not particularly about getting someone healed or praying for them to get a job. What it is about is unseen. IT IS about flicking a switch on the inside of you that accepts the kind of Christ of whom it says " It is written of Me in the book....I came TO DO THY WILL."
Even if in Watchman Nee's case it meant returning to die in a Chinese Communist jail by his own volition in 1966, when literally any Christian platform anywhere in the world would have gladly given him endless seminar time.
It's about what Christ is doing in and through you....and you alone. Yet irony of ironies...the thirdlevel isn't about you at all....it's about how you dovetail and interlock with all the others that are living and moving in the Spirit of God. You can't manufacture this. The Holy Spirit either does this....OR HE DOESN'T. There is no way we can orchestrate how we or anyone else move corporately as the people of God....unlike the Reds...there is no choreography. The only thing we can prepare is our believing, our connecting with the Living Spirit of God.
If you thought the charismatic movement was awesome....
you've never seen a mature Body springing up all over the earth.
As it says in Psalm 1: 5 Sinners shall just not be able to stand in the congregation of the upright
They'll just be blown right away ....by what's happening.
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