Worship in Spirit and Truth Parts 3 and 4 by Chris Welch

pictures are all of Mevagissey,Cornwall, two miles further round the coast from Pentewan sands, where the parts 1-4 were written.

Facebook on Saturday, 23 April 2011 at 23:48.

Issue 8 Christ in all that is in His Body.
Daniel Yordy writes :Christ is four things, five if you count the ways men have bastardised some of these after their own "likeness" reducing them to a Tree of Knowledge/ human tradition version yet devoid of the Tree of Life. Bizarre yet true, a bit like saying a Christless Christ...yet nevertheless even this is some sort of "schoolteacher to lead us to Christ. Daniel continues :" Christ is Four great tables of food,each table itself filled with many different mixtures and combinations.

• 1 Christ is every Word God speaks
  
  
• 2 Christ is a Spirit of Power
• 3 Christ is a corporate Body.
  
  
• 4 Christ is the One who lives as Me."

Now Daniel and I focus on 1 and 4, but Christ is equally 2 and 3.

30-40 years ago the prophecies commissioning our generation were things from Isaiah like :

Seek the Face of the God of Jacob.
They were :Raise up a highway of holiness in the desert.
Behold I do a New thing can you not perceive it?
Raise up the former devastations!
Enlarge the cords of your tent.Spread out.
And also: sing barren woman sing,for she who hasn't born shall bring forth a multitude!!!

Now look at each of Daniel's 4 points and realise that each strand of the Body has been working on one or more of these points in the context of the prophecies. It's been a time of concentration, of relative quiet....give or take Argentina and China's continuous miracle. The Holy place is a place like this. We are not fully mature yet, so we can only handle but one piece of shewbread per tribe...or else it confuses us.Remember the prophecy I did the cartoon about: the 1978 airplane lift off vision.(Here...last part)For an unending time the pilot was checking the systems...nothing seemed to happen.Then the engines were revved....but still the checks were going on. A lot of us wondered if Toronto was it.....or if Lakeland 2008 was it...But the truth is the Body across the Earth is now latent with the individual streams of Spirit learning that have been taking place in the "relative quiet" of the Holy Place. Well It's now time for the 3rd level of development. The Holiest Place. This is where everyone realises they went up in smoke at the altar of Incense 2000 years ago....and God does graphic representations of this in our own lives and in local Body Life.....Truth is though, when the Veil was torn in TWO at the intersection of the Holy Place and the Holiest Place....after this things get very interesting....because we are nolonger 12 tribes...we are now Called by our New Name which comes from the Mouth of the Father.....We are now walking Christ as Us.....He is our Name. As the word is going out afresh from 1 Corinthians 12 about the eye not saying to the foot, or whatever part, I have no need of you....we are nolonger talking about just squashing gifts in meetings....we are talking ALL 4 strands of JESUS above coming together as ONE THING. Not just individual Bodies and streams even....but holy , right, segments of revelation being slid beside each other seamlessy as though we'd meant it so from the beginning. Ofcourse the reality is WE Christians have been at war for 2000 years.....but that never phased the Father...who saw all along that when we got hold of "Christ as us " individually......putting the whole lot together was going to be a doddle....Yes, from the beginning the Father has never been phased!!!! He planned it so, like one enormous Symphony in Time....with everything working at every level in the final denoument of the last movement. This is the Apocalypse....the unveiling of this Mature Man.Spirit and Truth is no small back street operation!!!!

Issue 9 - Worship in Spirit and Truth is not in a "human" order. It recognises no name or label other than Christ and the order in which He operates. He is the Eternal High Priest in the Order of Melchizedek.The Order of Melchizedek is not at the summons of man, but at the call of God, or to be more defined the God cry felt within the eternity of man's heart. The spirit of a man knows what is in man and discerns his true drives.Therein by the way is the Armenian/Calvinist mystery....who initiates what? Once you see union as fact...how on earth can you tell?All this to say that if you were born again in revival you have a taste for the Melchizedek strangeness of an "order" that is not centered in human organisation. How does anyone explain Evan Roberts and Wales, the later Hebridean Revival and Campbell and my own smaller school revival? But there is the even greater mystery: the Eternal Now we were finding our way around in,in 1972 is not different to the NOW of 2011. The same Spirit that moved me 39 years ago is the same Spirit today. I have added mysteries to my life.I may be more mature as a Christian, but the Melchizedek Order is just the same.The I AM Presence of God can be experienced all day long . It can be experienced in every meeting in grandiose splendour by a day old convert as well as by some older Christian. What that day old convert reports back is as valid and as relevant to the Body as from anyone else. Name me another group on Earth like that? This is the mystery of heaven. The last thing Moses experienced as well as it being the instruction he was to relay to the elders of Israel when he asked "who shall I say sends me?" "You shall say I AM sends you." You shall say BLANK CHEQUE sends you. What do you need? Well He is there to fulfil it. But this same God reserved the right to BE the I AM in the way He wanted. So yes He was Deliverer, but He was fully ARCHITECT of that deliverance. He wasn't about to be a Sattellite TV plaything version of deliverance for each individual Israelite in Egypt. He was engineering HISTORY for the whole nation of Israel.And on such a scale that the surrounding nations became really afraid.The interesting pattern in the Key of David meetings here in Havant is the Psalm 123 truth of a servant watching for every flick of the hand or sign in the eye of the master. Sensitivity to this I AM God, and what He is doing now. What is on His heart NOW. What the Body is up to now, not only in the UK, but wherever the Lord indicates. Key of David corporate gatherings are one example of Spirit and Truth in operation. My blog posts have described that a Bible verse in such a gathering, is not so much referred to, as enlarged by the Spirit in REAL time on large 3D screens of our corporate experience. We all feel that we are diving into the limitless well of that verse.When Jesus said the time will come when we will not worship on this hill nor at Jerusalem, but we will worship in Spirit and in Truth. It is a whole new system of operation.It is relationship.It is Union. Like Dr Who's Tardis, you think you are approaching a quaint limited little object like a Police Telephone Box, but when you enter , you discover a place where all that you thought you understood is overturned...even the notion of time and space itself....which in the NOW Presence of God and the powerful powerful order of Melchizedek becomes something that is ever broadening, ever growing in definition.Issue 10.Many charismatic types will see the title of this note and then be disappointed to realise hardly anything has been about private or corporate acts of worship. You see, this was how it was for Israel too. God said through Moses to Pharoah "Let my people go out into the wilderness 3 days to worship". Israel got equally irritated when they learned this worship meeting was going to go on some!!!! Watch out when the God who created time says anything like "Soon", or "3 days". Think...a day is as a thousand years. In the same way when Jesus announced a simple sounding prophetic statement like "from now on people will worship Me in Spirit and Truth"....think Romans 12...the giving over of your entire self, for always,as a LIVING SACRIFiCE. Think 1st Commandment...Love God with any main and spare bits you find in your being. Think not 3 days conference over in some Dales Bible Week Cowshed in Harrogate in 1976, think....something that is going to unravel your whole life,your university, your career, your very existence for the short time you live out your life on earth.In my blog I posted how in 1973 two of us were discussing the BIG WORLD vision verses in Isaiah and asking, "God,how do you get from little old Amersham to the size of these prophecies."Next thing we know,Merv and Merla are teaching praise in Guildford Fountain Trust Conference. But this is God's answer....this is God's language...this is God's conveyor belt to the bigger picture....this is the start of learning "worship in Spirit and Truth"....and ofcourse to begin with we are still "in separation". But without the release of the Spirit how would we even begin to "understand" separation, to even begin to "see" the delusion the devil sowed in Genesis 3. And God chuckles....although He sees our frustration....He sees that we as a BODY are destined to get it!!!!To "see it"BIG TIME.We HAD to pass through the False church, the false loves in our own lives,both religious and non.We had to pass through the "religious adulteress", the Babylon harlot, who as Proverbs describes, is busy telling us how religious and pure she is one minute, then the next she is wanting to bed us while her husband is away. Some of us may have experienced more literal versions, but manifold are the religious prisons and bondages we have had to negotiate in order to learn the taste of the True, that of the Melchizedek Order.Nevertheless saints....in all the headlong rush to see the WHOLE, the God going on in everything, the "lie" of separation.....actually there is a Rising tide of worship. People like me who God sovereignly used to touch others in an anointing of praise and worship in the 70s and some of the 80s, and who, pigsick of their own failures and also the Corporate Brand sound of late 80s Integrity music, and who much in relief lay down music "permanently" to learn the new way that Norman Grubb and others were teaching.....are delightedly relearning that there IS A NEW WORSHIP....of the more defined type that means the "shared and specific" put aside time of the Corporate Body just to love on Her Saviour. BUT THIS TIME not a strained "false match" worship coming out from a people still not weaned from "separation seeing", but a people who know Union. I said earlier how different strands of the Body were focussed on different things. I was in a Body in Emsworth focussed on "entering the Presence of the Lord in Spirit and Truth." We had been taught by Ed Miller and Jorge Pradas. After years of battling in the Spirit a "ground of praise" was taken by faith in the Spirit. Meetings had purpose. Outstanding things were happening in the meetings. People were being mightily transformed from the inside out. Victories in praise and prayer were bringing healing, to us, to associated ministries, to unresolved situations like the Yorkshire Ripper, to expanding into Paris and North Wales. Daniel Yordy's communities were quite different. They had stupefying revelation on the Third level. Their meetings led with praise which led into amazing Word content. Until the 90s though none of these Sam Fife groups "saw" praise and worship. Once you do, you understand it is a "way" that can be complete in itself. It can lead to more revelation from the Word in five minutes than 10 hours of the most inspired teaching. These are the oddities with these "newfangled" ways Jesus was warning us about...."They will worship in Spirit and Truth."

Worship In Spirit and Truth Part 4 by Chris Welch on Saturday, 23 April 2011 at 23:50.

The Vision of the Body of Christ.

We can tell ,you know, Daniel and I, as can probably all the members of the Move under Sam Fife, or those in Los Rios of Quilmes Argentina. These are two of the charismatic groupings who often sold up everything to join these Christian Communities.There's a rightness to this and a wrongness to our experience.But one thing was left buried in our spirit, and as I said within 5 minutes we can probably read your spirit to know whether you have a clue too- About the Vision of the Body of Christ. It's not a secret bit of knowledge that God only shares with special people.Like all the strands of Holy Spirit revelation Jesus wants everyone everywhere to catch it, but knows that while young in God we can all take just so much in our little lump of Shewbread in the Holy Place. He waits patiently for the time we are more FIXED in the WHOLE BREAD which is Jesus. At this point He can deluge us with things we may have missed in earlier stages. This I believe is going on in local and national Bodies of Christ right now. There is a filling out , an even-ing out of all that has been learnt.The counterfeit of the "experience of being baptised into the corporate Body of Christ", sharing and knowing at a deep level you are joined and knit spiritually with other Christ Believers - and actively walking in the vision of the Body building itself up in love.. Well a "counterfeit" of this had to be Communism."Party mindedness was almost a mystical concept," explained Kopelev, in Sebag Montefiore's book on Stalin and Russian Communism. The worst of what Daniel and I experienced was pure socialism or at times Fascism. This is Christian community not grounded in knowing Christ as me,still meandering in and out of the independent self. As I explain in my blogpost The One Cult, I don't even need to point fingers at other people...I don't have to look further than my own messes if I want to recriminate somebody. Without a clear walk fixed in the inner seeing of Christ embedded at my spirit core, I will bring enough cultish ways into any Christian community to "fuse" out the Body building itself up in love around me. The best part of my 15 continuous years in Christian community and Daniel's in his, means that we can "read" Christians. Because of our own histories we can read "secret agendas". We know when pastors,teachers,apostles,worship leaders own inner vision still has them seated firmly at the top of their pyramid.It all may be unspoken. Nothing is explicitly stated. It's just there in everything unsaid.You know who is at the top of the shop in someone who has a vision of the Body of Christ? It's Jesus. And His Melchizedek order.He or she cares for nothing else. You see Daniel and I have seen glimpses of the Body building itself. That's why we observe Facebook,Twitter and blogs with tremendous joy. Very, very difficult for 1st generation apostles to stick their oar into what is going on. It is all very much out of control. WORD is being shared freely without strings attached, between all the continents. The thing Daniel and I know from our histories, but that others are only just coming into is this: the Body of Christ moving in the Melchizedek order builds VERY FAST. Lightning fast.Frighteningly fast. It hasn't got pinnacle ministries to stand in her way and prevent her. Everyone is given equal chance to learn this "worship in Spirit and Truth." Revelation flies about the Body just as it does in revival. Because that is the secret of the Melchizedek Order. It is continuous revival. It revives all it touches. It doesn't try to hide its secrets in spiritual enclaves, it wants EVERYBODY to know these Spirit tricks as quickly as possible......it's an open , transparent life, ideally suited to what is going on here on the internet. It's the Church Without Walls. People say it knows no authority...it is rebellious. This same junk was thrown at Nehemiah as he sought to rebuild Jerusalem by local authorities. But you know, Nehemiah actually had the highest authority. Permission had come from Babylon itself. Our permission too comes from the very highest level, King Jesus Himself. The truth is all these "apostolic enclave" authorities, so called, actually have less authority than we have, because most of them are building in little political corners, whereas we speak right across every man made boundary and declare eternal universal Word coming from the whole of the Bible. As someone sees more, we share that too across the Body.The frictions we experience are no more than are written right across the New Testament letters, indeed before that in the disciples' own frictions in the gospels. In such environments you get Paul almost pulling his hair out, sitting people down and almost embarrassedly laying out for these conceited hearers that yes, he does have great authority, if not humanly,then certainly in the Spirit.Who was it that has braved wild animals,crowds,floods and shipwrecks? The last thing Paul would do ordinarily is stress these things, but amongst a people still living in the conceit and dreamworld of the independent self then Paul has a go at pricking some bubbles. No one has seen yet a transnational Body of Christ whose culture is rooted in the truths Francois Du Toit, Andre Rabe and Andre Ousterhuizen are sharing. Or more than this No Independent Self of Norman Grubb. Or the most advances Spirit knowhow concerning the shared corporate experience of a Body moving and meeting up with Jesus "in the air", of moving freely together in the Holy of Holies. Nor of gazillions of saved ones living out their whole lives in this realm, where it says in scripture even the pots and pans cry "Holy to the Lord." We are in an age like NO OTHER

Where I am Now on Discipleship

Also in a note on Facebook
Some were discussing recent Juan Carlos Ortiz material that has been posted, then Megan Anne Fey wrote Chris, do you have any good reading on "true discipleship" (Internet materials), the Lord has commissioned me and I would love to read more about it...
Here is what I initially wrote, followed by a longer reply to her question
Allibris is good for Ortiz books. The original was one of those historical confluences of "mismatches" that God is in like Rahab and the spies. Jamie Buckingham was a pastor out of a job because he had fallen in adultery...so he became a writer to the new fledgling baptized in the Spirit Community.Ortiz being Argentinian, needed someone to work ... See morepatiently with him to get the English right!!! So "Call to discipleship" was born. This was the original Spirit format of what later became the shepherding pyramid still visible today, though softened. In the original format, which is what we'd also been led to in England....which is why the book is in my DNA....we learned that Discipleship comes out of relationship, it comes from Holy Spirit prepared "fathers", male or female, and involves feeding the young with stuff as God gives revelation. It is warm, not sterile. It is dependant on people walking in a living relationship with Jesus and it definitely involves a bit of "going to hell" for the people you are being used to feed. What I mean is...you feed with unconditional love...because "reactions" come up and some of the freshly prepared food is thrown back over you. Then as Ed Miller says, "when you've taken the disciples to the throne, just like any good taxi driver you withdraw.
Discipleship is not about Alpha Courses, though they can be used. It is not about manuals. It is not about study groups on a Tuesday evening. You'll find people don't have problems on Tuesday evenings, it will be Wednesday! It's not about mini Sunday services with preprepared speeches in your home. It is not about discipling people to you, or your ... See morechurch. You know when you've succeeded not when they are in your church, but when they know how to live Jesus as them, in their calling. Discipleship is now a dirty word.But a true discipler, as in any ministry, takes on the same role that Joseph had with Mary. He takes all the flack for a babe born out of wedlock, without being the actual father. I'll spell that out. Unlike seminary trained pastors who feel they have earned their position and now "disciple" people into "their ministry" and "their church", a true discipler realises he is discipling people out of a job, with nothing in it for him, while taking all the flack "for being out of wedlock"....that is true Spirit stuff always looks iffy to carnal bystanders who cannot understand what is going on.
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Here is my fuller reply to Megan about what I am feeling now about Discipleship

We are in a singular time period. Corporately, were we to view the parable of building on the sand and building on the rock....we have discovered that we weren't quite on the rock and people all over the world are still digging down to find it. (Understand here I am talking in terms of building the Kingdom of God,personal salvation we have clear.).Apart from individuals like Norman Grubb, Major Thomas and others....Everything, absolutely everything out there that relates to discipleship has a very naive view of what humans are. I don't yet know of a single book that covers discipleship from the bedrock foundation of reversing Genesis 3 by faith in a Christ who wants to live out Our Life as Us. So herein lies the problem.

Nor is there a book that covers discipleship in a way that faithfully honours some of the ways the Holy Spirit has led a whole generation or 3 of people as they have rediscovered the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Living in any sense at all corporately is doomed to failure without an active relationship with the Holy Spirit. To the extent that any of us have lived continuously together as a worshipping community advancing in the knowledge of God, that, from a human perspective has to be a divine miracle. Sin has disconnected us from God and each other at a very core level. For this reason, one of the spin offs of getting to know Jesus better is loving my brother and sister more. This side of discipleship is behind this series of posts which begins here http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2009/04/from-mystery-of-sin-to-mystery-of-syn.html and continues via the ”next button” to the 8th post. There’s “How do we live this stuff ?” http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2009/06/i-was-encouraged-to-get-message-from.html

The taxi Driver picture of Ed Miller, and my own revelation on Joseph taking on Mary with child are two key foundations to discipleship. They are the two barricades against “Pyramid” building in the Body of Christ. If people took regard to just these two principles half of the present structures would disappear overnight.

Since these posts I have been seeing more clearly what Romans 1:21 means For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

We became effectively locked in our left brains, alienated from God’s life which should be bubbling up actively from within, but is clogged up in shame and hurt, and effectively cut off from God.

So you can see how addressing this problem with mere manuals , however good they are like the YWAM Discipleship manual, cannot change the fifth column in our own make-up. Our own mind filters God out by default!!

There are two models of discipleship or Temple building in the Bible. There is the picture of each stone being prepared beforehand in the quarry, then seamlessly fitted together on the Temple site. This is similar to our own individual daily walks preparing us in Ephesians 4 and 5 fashion, for corporate warfare in Ephesians 6.

The second model is the way the disciples lived with Jesus for 3 years . This model was transplanted in the early churches where people hungrily learned as much as they could from living together, sharing together and attending to what the apostles were bringing of the revelation of the life of Christ. A proto type of this was experienced by ourselves in Emsworth thirty years ago as, as many as 30 lived together in one not too large house.

You notice I do not view discipleship too separately from building the House of the Lord.
The vision of the Church is so powerful, and the love being shared abroad in people’s hearts by the Holy Spirit so intoxicating that others are pretty soon drawn in.

But one of my latest revelations concerning discipleship actually comes from the calling of Moses. This also is one of the most important keys to ministry and discipleship that you will ever hear and we will spend our entire lives exploring this. When Moses asked how God would like to be known when he presented his message of calling Israel out of Egypt, God replied…..”You shall say I AM sent you.”

Think about it. As things stand, when we minister to each other we are sharing the latest doctrine, our own agenda, our own stream. What the Key of David meetings are teaching us to do. What Jorge Pradas’s meetings were all about 30 years ago , was spending time with the I AM. What is the I AM up to today. Transplanting this ability to perceive God’s heart in individuals and churches is far more important and dovetails exactly with the revelation of Christ living out His life as you. They are the training ground which is then exported into the rest of people’s lives.