World Community Standards

Under the Guise of " Community Standards " Facebook and YouTube have been acting criminally in suppressing national statistical facts as shared by John Campbell and the recent apologies from the Japanese Government to their people . "Japan Declares State of Emergency After 'Nanobots' Found in 96 Million Citizens Japan has issued an apology to its citizens for the disastrous consequences of the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines and has launched far-reaching scientific inquiries and criminal investigations to establish the truth and punish the perpetrators. Having watched Facebook and YouTube suppress quite legitimate published facts from newspapers and corporations , in particular Russell Brand and Dr Campbell , if the latest findings by Japan are true , and being suppressed then the whole legitimacy ( they were never voted for ) of WEF, UN, WHO, BILL GATES , DR FAUCI are called into question as are the fitness of FACEBOOK and YOUTUBE to have any semblance of care for the citizens of the world . In short these are either facts , in which case their legitimacy falls like a house of cards , or they are but malicious lies to weaken the public's trust in UN , WHO , WEF , and EU . This question hangs on the legitimacy of the government health statistics across the nations of the Earth , and the findings of the Nanobots in 96 million citizen's blood vessels .

God's Light brings definition - a Look at 4 points in history

Please link these four histories.
1.God saying to Israel both through Moses direct, and later about that time period in the desert but as recalled by prophets...
the jist is while you were not a people, I called you and betrothed you in the desert....
(the tribe of Dan didn't feel very married, or didn't want to be, because as soon as they arrived in Canaan they toddled off, and Julius Caesar says they formed Greece)
2. Jesus preaching a whole new level, and finding that He had to do most of it on the shores of Galilee and in the hills beginning with mutlitudes.
3. Late 60s and 70s people were being baptised in the Spirit across the world in their thousands and wondering what on earth to do now. They snuck out to Fountain Trust meetings at the London Friends meeting House. or , like in Emsworth they held "extra curricular activities" was it once a week or once a month , gathering from different churches round people's front rooms.
4. Wondering what on earth to do, one bunch as Dave Tomlinson describes in Post Evangelical and M Scott Peck "The Different Drum".....one bunch feel unhappy now with the "socialisation stage and strait jacket" and ditch a formal relationship with God to follow and research spirituality in general another bunch like myself notice that there is something essentially sick still with 1 John 2's "young man stage". I mean the charismatic thing is a necessary transition stage, but like the disciples circling the mountain of God for 40 years.....THE ACTUAL LAND OF PROMISE it was not....
In each of the histories, and I believe currently today, God always brings more Light, more definition.
in the wilderness God had to wait for a malleable next generation of fresh hearts, to be able to take the people into the Land. The definition if you like was , after 40 years of merrygo round
One morning Joshua said....
Now , Today, we are going up to the land.
Imagine the shock to the system.
In Galilee, Jesus had healed the sick, fed the multitude, preached widely....but He was disturbed.
And as if playing out naturally in the background, He also heard of John the Baptist His relation, having his head cut off.
He was floored internally....He had to spend time really hearing God intently.
Two things happened to bring definition.
120 disciples, who followed more closely still wasn't defined enough. He was led to choose by the Spirit 12 men....and led to choose a devil as one of them. I guess this mirrors the reality we are in now, where as He said....after the farmer sows, an enemy would come by night. So now we too have a field that is made up of genuine God people, and complete fakes.
secondly His preaching changed gear in John 6. He told the multitude that He wasn't here to provide all their outer stuff, He wanted to get at the root of their beings.....for the first real time since Genesis 3, He had come to bring the Bread out of Heaven, by which we may be born again , eat, and bear fruit, thirty, sixty and 100 fold.
In Emsworth a Catalonian evangelical who fled Spain and Franco's death warrants and imprisonment.....yup the civil War had always been about the Vatican taking back their power....
Jorge Pradas found himself in one of those loose and woolly fellowship meetings in Emsworth and by the Spirit asked them suddenly to show him in the New Testament what "a fellowship was".
You can have fellowship, but nowhere is the word "a fellowship".
That;s David "New Cartism".
The only thing in the New Testament is "the Church of the Living God", as Watchman Nee says....in a local geography.
if you isolate the tiniest bit of my body it is Chris Welch DNA.
If you reduce the size of a gathering of believers down to two in a place......it is still the ekklesia....the church of the Living God meeting in the Name of Jesus.
So Jorge asked by the Spirit, "Are you people here the Church or aren't you?"
That was how Emsworth Church was born. Perhaps it should have been called New Brighton Road Church, or later Horndean Road Church. Considering there were other believers meeting in the usual denominations...perhaps it was a bit steep to call it Emsworth Church....but maybe equally it woke some of the sleeping denomination people.
So we come to online stuff.
I came online because there was no terrestial place to share the thirdlevel. Many of us on here are here for the same reason.
But that doesn't make it right. It may make it a New Cart....but New Carts are dangerous.2 Samuel 6.
When in 1973-5 many many of us were withdrawing from 1st level Christian situations to position ourselves for the secondlevel Jesus was bringing in, we found ourselves isolated, meeting in front rooms, and some number of us across the world fell sexually. (Jamie Buckingham for example)
Now I am not calling Jorge Pradas a proper thirdlevel apostle, but in many pioneering ways he was pretty darned close....and for those days, in the 70s he was establishing works of God that were starting to look like real churches that we read of in Acts.
But ONE THING that wasn't going to happen too quickly in a real church setting , where you are walking eyeball to eyeball in Light.....is adultery or fornication.
Blogs and Facebook have been very similar to the use of books when invented in Guttemburg .
When mass flyers and cheap printed sheets were available in the 60s, Watchman Nees works were flying everywhere. The Jesus Move was built on things like David Wilkerson's Jesus maturity manual, hippie type colourful gospel fliers.
I created a potted version of the normal Christian Life for my school.
But Books and online media ARE NOT CHURCH.
Jesus had to move from the multitude....actually at one point the Bible says...seeing the multitude he went in the other direction.
He became defined in the Spirit. He poured Himself into 12. With an overspill of 120 including his Mum and Mary Magdalen.
Judging by who was at the tomb it seems they were actually listening.
I think it was 2012 -2014 some of us were on a continuous private Thread sharing, as we could in our schedules all round the clock all round the world.
Things do have a natural course, and perhaps it was over.
But it was during this period I suddenly saw how all through history God has defined MOVES.
We can see this in Nehemiah 8.
Notice how key this book is. The FIRST thing the returning people did was build the 12 Gates and walls.
The first thing the Spirit has done since the pouring out of the Spirit in the 1900s has been to redefine and rebuild all these devastations in the Spirit.
But just rebuilding is one thing.
Then chaoter 8 comes.
Some kind of "Gathering in the Square " Prophetic Moment
where things get defined in the Spirit.
Selah.....again

More Personally, and about Lydia Joy Shatney and others

very encouraging email from John Stevens

Hi Chris,

Over the years I think it would be true to say you've spent more time outside church than I have but I'm now more than a year away from regular Sunday morning attendance and general church involvement.

So...gives one time to reflect.

Was sitting down strumming my guitar the other day and realised it was a bit out of tune. A bit lazily I tuned the strings to the bass E and it was improved enough to enjoy playing but not quite perfect. Sometime soon I'll probably get fed up tuning it to the E or the A and tune each string in reference to software on my phone/tablet.

Thought then of you and pianos and then of church. Vague memories of hearing you or someone saying that you actually don't tune each string to perfect pitch as that doesn't quite give the best sound?

What's the place of the best pastors in church. Agree with you that they really don't have to be the 'leader', often they're not! The best pastors are in the congregation! But thinking that you know a pastor when you meet one because they're likely to either be in tune or know how to tune you or enable you to tune you to them. And so the effect of having a few good pastors is a church that just 'feels' in tune. There's love and reality and little social fear. The same problems as the church down the road with all the right doctrines, good teeaching, evocative prophets, but somehow not in tune. But even churches that are lucky to have a good few pastors eventually need a re-set and need to be tuned directly to Jesus.

What I'm getting at here I think is that you have a vision for the third level working on a church wide, body of Christ dimension. When we were colliding with the early charismatic leaders they preached a vision of the body of Christ...certainly my pastor/teacher did - he preached from Call to Discipleship for months just after I was converted just prior to Exeter days. We went to listen to Juan C-O up in London at the Quaker Meeting House. (I discovered that my pastor had little regard for the Highway Code but made a lot of time for honking his horn and swerving the minibus in time with the praise singing in the minibus..but we survived and thrived).

Those days and the vision for the church as taught have stayed deep inside ever since.

But he and I therefore ran aground in Rom 6 and so on. I had to leave and get that knot untied at Roffey...not that they knew there was a knot or that it was untied!

Last thought. Why are you a piano tuner? Piano tuning doesn't play the music but without the tuning the most skilled players can only make a discordant noise. Piano tuning doesn't make the piano or the strings or the pedals.

It's a bit like the piano tuner is in the background...he is an enabler. He's the unsung hero.

It's a spiritual parable.

Keep tuning the pianos. Keep the blog going. You're serving many by being an E or an A in tune. Others tuning themselves to you. They can't be you or you them but they can enjoy their faith that bit more and any ministry/gift they may have that bit more.

Your vision isn't of individual strings making the right sound but of the infinite variety of sound that can be produced when a whole body of believers is in tune. An orchestral vision in fact.

I think Is 62 is a bit like this.

I have posted watchmen on your walls, Jerusalem;
they will never be silent day or night.
You who call on the Lord,
give yourselves no rest,
7
and give him no rest till he establishes Jerusalem
and makes her the praise of the earth.

Keep going Chris!

___________________________

2 photos of Lydia having given birth to a son in 1998 and today

Just gonna leave this right here.....
Some-freaking-how I am managing to raise four boys all on my own and I honestly don't know how -even when people ask me every day I simply say; "I just do it"
When I say on my own I mean on my own, no help from family, no help from their dad and the child support I get is a laughable joke.
But somehow I'm not completely losing my shit and somehow my kids are hanging in there too.
It certainly is a messy, hard as hell, crazy, wild situation, but as crazy as this sounds I wouldn't change it for the world!
Today I am reminded to just BREATHE!!
I've got this thing, right?!!!

writes Lydia Joy Shatney


Julie Anne Morris

https://www.facebook.com/aaronandjuliemusic/

Who are Lydia Joy Shatney, Julie Anne Morris and  a man called Dan Bowen who has recently died?
They may be unknown people to you but in summer 2007 I was googling Ern Baxter details, and found the blog of an English Nurse brought up in Stanley Jebb's Dunstable church called Dan Bowen.

Through Dan Bowen I learned about Ern Baxter's subsequent ministry in UK fellowships and conferences
I learned that Larry Tomczak and CJ Mahaney had established Sovereign Garace Minstries. I loved Larry and CJ when they were touring Britain in the 80s.

But things had gone a bit sour and I learned that Julie Anne and Lydia Joy were both in SGM as youngsters. Many people chatted. Sheila Atchley who is a pastor's wife in the States and is a friend on Facebook was also one of these who commented on what Dan was sharing.

We shared so much in the comments section of Dan's blog. He told us about Rob Rufus minstry in Hong Kong and we read and listened to many of the mp3s on grace. If you want to dig around in some of what we were talking about, it is still all there in Dan's blog.

It was around 2008-9 that Christian men began meeting each other big time on Facebook.A sister in Kenya said I ought to go on Facebook, some years earlier, but at that point men weren't really doing Facebook in the same way as it has now developed.

So just prior to Facebook, Julie -Anne and Lydia Joy encouraged me to start my own blog in the following summer of 2008.  The 8 Bubble LOGO to highlight the day I began and which in Hebrew numerics actually means  the THIRD GATE or ENTRANCE or PORTAL was devised by Lydia Joy for her own blog to celebrate that date.

In Christ , lives touch for a while and pollinate and when it is genuine something of lasting significance continues to grow inside us.

For others it is not so meaningful perhaps....but for one who was unable to share anything anywhere for about 20 years from the time I was chucked out of the charismatic realm in 1988 until this opportunity opened on the net......wow.....it was so beautiful and timely....and probably necessary lest I explode!!!!   I had to share somewhere.

Perhaps I drive people nuts

Perhaps I drive people nuts with continually banging on about the third level....but i was so charismatic and so wrong at the same time....I don't want others to have to go through the same mess as me.
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Cliff Gableman, Joan Reilly, Amy Valentine and 7 others like this.
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Michael O'Hara Chris... Brother you worry too much.
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Chris Welch have you seen the messes?
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Michael O'Hara Besides "what's done is done" and what's (going to be) revealed is going to (now) be revealed.
21 hrs · Like

Michael O'Hara Who's looking at the messes?
21 hrs · Like

Michael O'Hara "But we see Jesus"
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Chris Welch Put it this way....some people are still not talking to me 40 years on
21 hrs · Like · 1

Chris Welch I'm like those people who lose their child to a car accident and spend their life making roads safer
21 hrs · Like · 2

Michael O'Hara that's not a bad or wrong thing necessarily.
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Michael O'Hara Should you be?
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Michael O'Hara The road we travel is through the fire.
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Michael O'Hara No way around it..only through it.
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Chris Welch I actually have a Bible verse or two to get you off my back
I will raise up a highway of holiness in the wilderness
and ...See More
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Michael O'Hara So speak that and not "old foundations"
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Chris Welch Not every generation has to be this idiotic.....sooner or later people will learn that masons and Luciferians have arranged it all.... and they will know the glory of theLord covering the earth as the waters cover the sea......until then.....
21 hrs · Like · 2

Michael O'Hara "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by your name; You are Mine. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, nor shall the flame scorch you. For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior.." (Isaiah 43:1-3)
21 hrs · Like

Michael O'Hara "Do not remember the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing, now it shall spring forth; Shall you not know it? I will even make a road in the wilderness and rivers in the desert. The beast of the field will honor M...See More
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Mikkel Thomsen Michael, the problem is that if we don't know we are a mess, we probably continue living on in a deception. and while we are going through the wilderness, we need those who have went before us, to lead us as it was with Moses and the Law, for the Isrea...See More
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Sandy Halverson amen..mikkel...!
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Mikkel Thomsen Thanks Sandy!
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Michael O'Hara I don't think we who follow Christ are a "mess" Mikkel even remotely. I think we're in a great position be drawn out into the "wilderness" and trust in Christ alone who btw.. "Came back filled with the Spirit."
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Mikkel Thomsen We actually are messed up when we consciously or unconsciously operate as if we are self-reliant selves in order to operate ourselves when we in fact are totally new creations, Christ in our forms. Though we are Christ's "mess" and it is Him who work us out of that deception!
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Chris Welch The unconscious operation being the worst...Satan has asked to sift you Peter, but i have prayed for you.
Peter had no idea....then when the "crash " happened....he then went to the other extreme and hardly dared look Jesus in the face...either in the courtchambers or at the shoreline later when jesus came to prepare their breakfast.
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Mikkel Thomsen Exactly! So Jesus before He went to the Father and sent the Spirit in His place, He was as the Law to them... nothing but an outer guidance, yet a mediater, not yet knowing their inner source! See, the Law is in play! And the Law is the outer-pre-light, consciously preparing a path for Another who is coming (the inner birth/knowing of the Spirit!)
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Samantha Paradinha We are a mess. When we say we see our sin remains. Smh when I see all healed I will say the mess is gone!
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Samantha Paradinha I laughed out loud at the 'I have a Bible verse or two comment' yes you do. Just funny how that came out. Youse guys... Smh I think you mistake his love for worry. It's love. Not speaking for that many years hmm is that loving your brother? It matters, ya know. It all matters. Hurts...
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Mikkel Thomsen True Samantha, either we see that we are a mess, or we see that we are whole, complete and lacking nothing! But we only know who we are, by first trying to function in what we are not.
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Mikkel Thomsen Nothing can be known except by the experience of opposites, the one swallowing up the other, by our choises, to gain its known reality! So the Law expose to us when we operate in the deception of self-reliance making the wrong choises (being flesh minded), and the Spirit works in us and confirm in us when we operate as right selves in Christ making the right choises (being Christ minded).
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Chris Welch That's the issue. It is also the issue of the moment in the macro world. Nearly all feedback has been destroyed....in many areas we are now Lawless....cast adrift. The VOICES we trust are all eroded, eaten away.....
It's no small book....Architects o...See More
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Mikkel Thomsen That's why we need those walking before us, who knows.
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Chris Welch either that or learn the hard way
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Mikkel Thomsen Its still the hard way. We must experience in ourselves.
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Chris Welch that is true.....but without quite as much collateral damage
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Mikkel Thomsen The mediaters (those walking before you) purpose is to confront you, as an outer means (like Moses), when you are outward (flesh) minded, yet interceding for you to the Father! Sufferings are inevitable on both sides!
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Mikkel Thomsen Michael, "Who's looking at the messes?"....

We all inevitable are, until we have learned that the "messes" is the means of God to make us conscious sons in Christ, knowing Him as All in all! ...See More
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Michael O'Hara "For the Spirit had not yet been given" John's words regarding the "ineptness" of the disciples. Now that the Spirit has been poured out from on high and now that we are a "royal priesthood, a holy nation" We are a "mess"? Naw we falter and stumble ...See More
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Chris Welch Mikkel this is the thing with Michaels generation....they did the Word first.....like Jesus and the disciples and Norman Grubb......I only spent 6 weeks not being baptised in the Spirit. Like the Corinthians and many since Acts 2 we had to learn within a Spiritfilled mishmash.
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Mikkel Thomsen I don't know what you mean with a Spiritfilled mishmash. But I know concerning myself that immediately I heard the Word I believed and recieved Him in my life, I was filled with the Spirit. Since then I basked in the Spirit several years after! The Spi...See More
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Chris Welch Michael's agegroup was more like Norman....once they were ministering they were faced with their own banktuptcy and that's when many turned to the Spirit. With graham Pulkingham he always went as far as to say that his baptism in the Spirit lasted 3 months on a crypt floor.....meaning it included his bankruptcy and continuous tears. We see this best displayed in Joel and the priests before the altar.
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Chris Welch I reckon a lot of the 10 day period between the Ascension and the Acts 2 Outpouring was genuinely like this for the 120. We are not old....but in context of their massive failures this makes sense.
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Mikkel Thomsen I don't think any "outpuring" of the Spirit is dependent on which level the "minister" has arrived. Actually it is dependent on the believing and reception of the hearer. It's the same Spirit working in and through all! Although one who is mature in his faith life, would be more consistent than the novice. And the birth of the Spirit only means, the inner witness/confirmation of the Spirit of what you have believed.
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Chris Welch In practice it is about coming to the end of ourselves...or silly notion of independent self...it doesn't exist. Seemed to happen to you while Spirit baptised....possibly happened to Michael like the disciples....beforehand. Nobody is earning anything...we are simply walking the way for us.
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Sandy Halverson Well ...i do not have someone going before me...that leads me..the only one i have come to listen to..that is all in all to me...is the voice of Jesus...He and the Father know everything about me..and i live for the purposes of jesus..in the earth..obey God not man..all the other .."preachers/teachers."..have their own testimony...we all do..i personally had to learn and grow through the experiences for the past 35yrs...not a easy task..but substantial..and beneficial...in the Spirit realm..and for God's perfect will working in me and through me...
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Chris Welch Yes but Sandy...there isn't really a thirdlevel church yet. The nearest you will get to that is a Union gathering and they aren't really pulling their punches yet. Fred Pruitt may well only be at a similar phase to Jesus in Nazareth. We are in a transition period. Where those who have the Spirit's anointing don't really articulate consciousness and those who have sought God deeper have almost laid aside spiritual gifts like Sundhar Singh did when virtually half of India wanted to follow him just because he healed somebody.
Once the prophesied "Highway of holiness is properly carved out" lots of things will be switched on again. Most of us when we see a "signs preacher" speaking out of separation rush to the nearest bathroom sink. It's almost like it has to be completely remodelled.
Right away from "GIVVUS YOUR MONEY GOD TV."

Clocking Out?

Paul Noble posted an interesting article about the large numbers leaving churches and not because they are necessarily giving up faith....in fact quite the reverse.
I alluded to the "gap", the "transition " of 400 years between Malachi and the gospels. God's biggest things usually have lulls....or incubation periods.
-Genesis 1 the Spirit on the waters
-From Abraham's Dad right through to the real start of Israel as a nation was some 3-4 generations of just God working things through with 4 individuals....Terah, Abraham, Isaac,Jacob....then things kicked off.
-390 years in Egypt!!!
-40 bloomin years in a desert waiting for the first generation to die off
and on and on.
-The last sizeable revival in the UK apart from our youth one around 70-72, was the Welsh revival and a small Hebridean revival.

So why the gap? Well it is actually extremely related to the Malachi-Matthew gap.
Why?
Jesus wasn't just a prophet. Wasn't just a Saviour...although there is no "just" about that. No He literally was the ADAM that DIDN'T flunk out as the first one had. This 2nd and Last Adam overcame....as a man.

That's the reason for the lull.
This Last Adam is showing up again. In the saints. To walk things out.
There's as huge a leap between Jews and prophets and patriarchs to Jesus

as there is now between CHURCHGOERS, and CHURCHIANITY and LITURGIES and SERMONS and what God is doing today

Literally fulfilling John 4.
Neither on this mountain nor at Jerusalem shall the people worship me...they shall now worship in Spirit and in Truth
The pots and pans shall cry Holy to the Lord!!!!

This NEXT THING is about the knowledge of the glory of the Lord covering the earth as the waters cover the seas.....
It's about the Son of Man standing up in the Earth and being seen like lightning from the East to the West.
It's about the Righteous flourishing quite suddenly in the same way that a palm Tree does after a very long barren looking tree trunk.....Kabaaaam!

+++++++++++++++++++++

Facebook conversation

Annelize Mouton   God has enthroned His Life in us.

The Revival Cycle

Facebook 11-12/10/2014

Chris Welch
Here's the problem with the third level.
It's not first or secondlevel.
Well that's helpful Chris!!!

Everything up until this point has been within the confines of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The first and secondlevels are still like young birds in the nest. The first Tree is where we find ourselves by default.
When we want to learn something we buy a book. We switch on TV. Now we google it. We go to university and do a course on it.
By the secondlevel things have got a bit more fluid so we go to charismatic conferences. We attach ourselves to apostles or leaders who seem to know a bit.
All operations are still organised, allbeit intermingled with more prayer.
To some little bird in a nest the whole concept of some mother bird moving in three dimensions is totally incomprehensible. What it DOES understand is when it's mother comes back now and again with a worm. Yup. it understands that bit of the third level. YUM.
So we have a growing dilemma. A shrinking nest perched precariously on a tree which simply is not big enough to house fullgrown birds. And then there's the other problem. Predators. each individual bird has to be able to stand up for itself, find its food raise its own families AND keep out of the way of predators.
So here's the dilemma!

Now Ed discovered when you take a local church right through (the cycle) the inevitable fall out....like a nuclear fallout....is revival


How do you get a first or secondlevel bird with only an understanding of YUM and moving in two dimensions round a nest, into a fully fledged, thirdlevel grown up, fully able to move in three dimensions and sort out its own life.
Now here's the thing. You're the mum. And mums are nice. Mums are loving. Mums paid a huge price to bear the offspring, protect the offspring, keep the offspring warm and feed the offspring....the word commitment doesn't even cover it.
So as David Attenborough will tell you, the mother bird continues to teach the little birds with a blackboard and chalk and like Francois and Lydia Du Toit speak very nicely and encouragingly to the little birds....
Well actually that wasn't in my Attenborough Living World DVD...
The Mother Bird KICKS THEM OUT OF THE NEST
INTO THE THIRD LEVEL....
TO FLY.
Most unlike the Dutoit's.
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"Mum's Central Heating Programme is about to end it's Cycle"

John Fina Paul Truth! That is exactly what happened in my life. The third level, which is total surrender to Jesus, is begun by Him by throwing us into the deep end The work of the cross is a beautiful thing! To experientially know Him, which is the third level, we...See More
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Tunji Ayoade Fine distinction with the Du toit Mirror
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Chris Welch The Mirror is a fantastic Labour and really is the revelation we need to carry us all the way from Romans 1 right into our new identity in 6. But it is in chapter 7 we get the reverse X-Ray that scares the living daylights out of us.....were those days not shortened none of us would experience Christ as us at all.....we'd be dead or in some asylum. Many regard us as such anyway. It's not the mirror I have problems with....it's ministries that stop in Romans 6. The church now needs people that are all the way through and can lead others through. Ed Miller was.one of the first to do this on a church scale. Norman had the understanding and articulation like.few others on planet earth but not the gifting nor Spirit technology to take a Spirit filled church through. I wish I knew Witness Lee but his recordings are being used on Premier Christian radio around London.....maybe as a veteran of communist prisons the sheer Grace on his life gets him through the English doors....what Ed Miller showed his that if you actually take a local church through the Feast of Tabernacles as a Spirit cycle....you eventually get to the Feast of Outpouring of water.....which actually is how the church began in Acts 2.

Churches should make love more and be in first love with their Master and they'd see more babies!!!

The Jerusalem Gates again,,,,,
Acts 2 began a fresh cycle for the 3000 but for the disciples themselves it was the culmination of a whole Passover Pentecost tabernacles cycle in the Spirit over three years with their Master. Now Ed discovered when you take a local church right through the inevitable fall out....like a nuclear fallout....is revival when you hit the Feast of the outpouring of water. This lovely stage in the Spirit is both Gate no.9 or the Eastern welcoming gate to.a whole new set of believers....but for the believers themselves it's like the first three gates all at once in their experience gate one is the sheep Gate. Both forgiveness of the Lamb slain and discipleship. It is gate 2 the fish Gate(evangelism burst) cos they are busy gabbing about their own new resurrection life and it is gate 3 the Old Gate because the gate no 9 people are instructing them in the old solid truths of who God is and who Man is etc beginning a new cycle.. Ed proved that because after he had triggered the 1950s Argentine revival he went on to trigger one every decade of his life. So this is why St Paul wrote so.confidently....do good to outsiders so that in the day of God's power they will understand.....and the seed of kindness is already laid. He spoke of the day of God's power as a certainty in the Spirit cycle. Today because were lucky to even get any of the first gates laid in the Spirit by anybody revival is still this very random and iffy occurrence......a bit like some marriages and babies !!!! Churches should make love more and be in first love with their Master and they'd see more babies!!!

Luvvies speak out on Facebook

I share many mutual friends on Facebook.I don't think I believe quite the same things. Trying to chase them down rabbitholes doesn't help me much...nor it seems them. The Body of Christ is not in the unity of the faith yet, so until that time we maintain the Unity of the Spirit.
One of the most popular of my blogposts is Too Much Process  in which Derek Pronce at 80 discovers that His Heavenly Dad really does love him....and discovering that changes so many things....things that were a fulltime battle...just simply fall away.
You can't ignore all these people....though Stephanie Macentire has defriended me.....the amazing thing is, loads of the rest haven't. They ARE in love with God and each other. Whatever I believe, certainly at this stage in the proceedings, has little or no effect...which is humbling....and here they are...so even if you tried to discount them....wouldn't make a scrap of difference....these are luvvies and below the name list is some open and laid bare sharing from last night on Facebook.


Fay Gillbanks Lagerwall
225 mutual friends
Cynthia Linox
350 mutual friends
Tabitha Hope
34 mutual friends
Kevin Hinkle
520 mutual friends
Hal Williamson
498 mutual friends
Christo Amsterdam
313 mutual friends
Brandon Lee
33 mutual friends
Myrlene Jack
6 mutual friends
Helene Markus
3 mutual friends
Elizabeth Imondi
172 mutual friends
Kristy P. Ashley
28 mutual friends
Christi Landers Ward
18 mutual friends
Linda Freethinker Thompson
84 mutual friends
Victor Henson
34 mutual friends
Donna Bentley Schrimsher
9 mutual friends
Cynthia Raytos
2 mutual friends
Jackie Walker
94 mutual friends
Debra Tillman Larson
2 mutual friends
Roxann Bass
35 mutual friends
Kim Wood
5 mutual friends
Sarah Jenkins Kawa
185 mutual friends
Stephanie McEntire Buker
318 mutual friends
LisaMarie Smith-LaRose
3 mutual friends
Amanda Bloomfield
39 mutual friends
Cherrie Brecht
57 mutual friends
Michelle Gomillion
10 mutual friends
Tanya Davila
8 mutual friends
Michele Kim Bahlmann
45 mutual friends
Beatriz Musick
174 mutual friends
Bola Muyis
78 mutual friends
Debbie Fulcher Belch
262 mutual friends
Mary Nonimous
36 mutual friends
Patricia Woodard
38 mutual friends
Hettie Beyer
18 mutual friends
Bridget Chapman
81 mutual friends
Beloved Richi
69 mutual friends
Chris Dugger
39 mutual friends
Debbie Brown
6 mutual friends
Chrissy Ward Hinkle
193 mutual friends
Brandalyn Ziemann
7 mutual friends
Sharon Cosby
144 mutual friends
Lilo Sanchez
14 mutual friends
Brigitte Pigram

Christo Amsterdam
23 hours ago · Edited


I need to post this...My biological father has not been there for me since birth...and I know the feeling of those children who has been mistreated that way..the hurt is unbearable...I have two kids today my eldest daughter is 16 and my son Immanuel 10...Loving my kids was a Huge problem because I couldn't relate to loving them...it was a new challenge for me especailly the "huging and kissing part" it was really hard though...I was longing and yearning to be loved and to love but on my life journey God revealed to me that the Love I was searching an looking for was right there inside of me...that revelation opened up a new perspective to love and to be loved. now I can freely Love my wife kids and everybody around me. Wow!!! — with Hal Williamson and 22 others.


Hal Williamson, Christo Amsterdam, Joe Black and 47 others like this.


Andrea Lynn Praise the Lord!!!
23 hours ago · Like · 2



Sharon Cosby Christo Amsterdam I love your transparency bro. I was in the same situation with my dad as well. And it is amazing when the Spirit reveals truth about love...that we are love all along...it's in us and are us...LOVE. I know your wife and kids got to love this love journey you are on because as your Facebook friends we are experiencing your love and friendship on a social network perspective. You are such a blessings...
23 hours ago · Like · 4



Christo Amsterdam Thank you Sharon Cosby!
23 hours ago · Like · 1



Christo Amsterdam Somebody needs to read this...I know they wil!
23 hours ago · Like · 1



Brigitte Pigram I relate to you bro..this year is the first time in my life I started telling the people I love that I love them..I know who I am now...I will never lack again..only love..I love you prince christo xoxo
23 hours ago · Like · 4



Brigitte Pigram Oh...its also the first time 2 months ago I ever said I love you to me..
23 hours ago · Like · 4



Christo Amsterdam Wow!!! Princess.B...this is a Good year for you Michael and kids
23 hours ago · Like · 3



Brigitte Pigram
Yep...the best!!
23 hours ago · Like · 3



Brigitte Pigram Ive always been able to say it to my kids...but only them..
23 hours ago · Like · 3



Beatriz Musick
Thanks. I love you back.
23 hours ago · Like · 2



Christo Amsterdam Brigitte now you can say it to All of your Universal family.
23 hours ago · Edited · Like · 3



Linda Woods
This is so powerful. I can really relate. Thank you for sharing.
23 hours ago · Like · 2



Michelle Rivera-Torres I can relate. Thanks for sharing Christo Amsterdam
23 hours ago · Like · 2



Christo Amsterdam Wow!!! its awesome to hear your hearts speaking...
23 hours ago · Like · 2



Cherrie Brecht I can totally relate.. I'm so happy for the revelation of love inside of you, praise God! We all love you very much and appreciate your journey of awareness!
23 hours ago · Like · 5



Chandre Epnaar Praise the Lord...God is good all the time....
23 hours ago · Like · 2



Beatriz Musick I thought only perfection deserved love. It took me a very long time to realize we unconditionally love because we are love.

But also, I need to thank my lovely husband Tommy Musick that loved me before I could even love myself.
22 hours ago · Edited · Like · 4



Christo Amsterdam Beatriz Musick and Tommy Musick your Love music playes in my ears!
23 hours ago · Edited · Like · 3



Brigitte Pigram I do bro...all the time...lol...I think everyones gonna get sick of me saying it soon but I cant help it...its bubbling out everyday..
23 hours ago · Like · 3



Amanda Bloomfield I can absoloutely relate christo.I hàd a similar journey to you.
I was taught that I was unloveable.
I was always working to obtain love,but never feeling worthy of receiving it.
I found hugging & kissing hard too.
But thankfully that's all changed & I know how to love those I cherish.
Thanks for sharing your story friend.xx
23 hours ago · Like · 3



Christo Amsterdam Princess.B I can relate.
23 hours ago · Like · 2



Christo Amsterdam Amanda Bloomfield xoxoxo
22 hours ago · Like · 2



Julie Ferwerda What a GIFT for you and your family!
22 hours ago · Like · 3



Julie Ferwerda PS, I too had the same realization a few years ago, just before Love opened my eyes. I realized the problem in myself--in the world--is lovelessness, handed down to us by our parents, and their parents. People don't know how to love and can't love unless they have had the encounter than plants the seed of love in their hearts. It's both humbling and inspiring.
22 hours ago · Like · 2



Ghosty Love I was not with my bio parents either. I relate as well. Though I have a different concept of god I definitely know what you mean about the love and everything found inside is. Good stuff. My son is getting to experience that. though at times I catch myself being strict. My first child though so I'm learning. Lol
22 hours ago · Like · 4



Ghosty Love And I love yall too
22 hours ago · Like · 4



Brigitte Pigram I love you chris.xo
22 hours ago · Like · 4



Ghosty Love Love you to Bridget.
22 hours ago · Like · 2



Brigitte Pigram Its brigitte
22 hours ago · Like · 2



Ghosty Love I know but my phone thinks it's smarter. I've learned not to argue with it. Lol
22 hours ago · Like · 2



Brigitte Pigram Lazy is what you are!!!
22 hours ago · Like · 2



Brigitte Pigram Lol
22 hours ago · Like · 2



Ghosty Love Lmao. You figured me out!
22 hours ago · Like · 3



Brigitte Pigram Hey can you believe we are all going to b able to see eachother everyday for ever????
22 hours ago · Like · 3



Brigitte Pigram I know!!
22 hours ago · Like · 1



Brigitte Pigram Ill be like...hey ghostly..come for a cuppa..and youll just blink and voila!!! Youll b in my kitchen..
22 hours ago · Like · 2



Brigitte Pigram Im gonna b really majorly pissed if we die and thats it!!! Or I come back as a cockroach!!! Will not b happy at all!!!
22 hours ago · Like · 3



Beatriz Musick Haha. If you came back as a cockroach, you will love the cockroach too. Haha. Love is the trick.
22 hours ago · Like · 3



Brigitte Pigram Ill kill it with spray!!! Lol
22 hours ago · Like · 1



Christo Amsterdam This is how I feel right now...tears of Love and joy.

22 hours ago · Edited · Like · 9



Brigitte Pigram Wait a minute..I cant kill myself..lol
22 hours ago · Like · 2



Brigitte Pigram I dont wanna b a cockroach!!!
22 hours ago · Like · 3



Brigitte Pigram If we dont spend eternity together ill be like Laaaawd WTF!!!!
22 hours ago · Like · 4



Christo Amsterdam Brigitte we wil see one another Papa wil make it possible right here on earth...and ill get that Hug.
22 hours ago · Like · 2



Brigitte Pigram I am head over heels deliriosly in love with my family!! Ive got a huuuuuuge crush on you all.xo
22 hours ago · Like · 4



Brigitte Pigram I know that brother 100% in my heart..hope we're not old tho!!
22 hours ago · Like · 2



Brigitte Pigram And my slow dance!!
22 hours ago · Like · 2



Christo Amsterdam Hahahahaha nope Brigitte I'm 44 and I'm 25 in strengh and energy...I'm not leaving this earth any time soon!
22 hours ago · Like · 2



Christo Amsterdam Oh yes you'll get that dance Lol! hehe
22 hours ago · Like · 1



Brigitte Pigram I cant wait
22 hours ago · Like · 1



Christo Amsterdam wheres my man Bola Muyis and Bridget Chapman?
22 hours ago · Edited · Like · 2



Brigitte Pigram Hes reading this now...lol
22 hours ago · Like · 1



Brigitte Pigram He should b popping in any minute..
22 hours ago · Like · 1



Bola Muyis
22 hours ago · Like · 2



Christo Amsterdam Is that all Bola Muyis? you don't have anything to say to the Family?
22 hours ago · Like · 2



Bola Muyis Christo my brother you guys have said it all... really you have. I was fortunate to have my father in my life but I was afraid of that man for a long time. He was as strict as they come. As an adult we have and enjoy a much better relationship. The thing is his father was no walk in the park. When I had my first child I saw the same mean streak growing in myself and I was distraught. Am so glad Love opened my eyes, love opened my eyes with help of most of you my family right here on facebook to be honest.... my family has not been the same.
22 hours ago · Edited · Like · 8



Suzi Chambelán Christo I still can't give my kids a hug or tell them I love them. I get you. My youngest I'm Try'n hard to coz my other 2 haven't had me saying I love you or me hugging them.
22 hours ago · Like · 6



Bridget Chapman Wow wow wow. It's so refreshing to know & connect with you Christo and many of you that you have not only been down same road of rejection but have experienced & tasted true freedom and pure love from our our only Real Papa god. My dad died when I was 14, I never knew what a father figure was supposed to be so I searched for love thru drugs and sex for many years. Omg Our father is so Faithful to open our eyes of what love is by loving ourselves which is same thing as loving god.
21 hours ago · Like · 7



Bola Muyis Suzi, you are one of the most loving from what I've seen here on Facebook... just keep on walking... remember you're perfect.
21 hours ago · Like · 6



Bridget Chapman Bola and I thinking on same minds this morning. He has opened our eyes of our hearts plain n simple.
21 hours ago · Like · 5



Bridget Chapman Exactly what Bola said Suzi.
21 hours ago · Like · 3



Christo Amsterdam Bridget Chapman Brigitte and all you guys..I'm so blessed to call you Family!.
21 hours ago · Edited · Like · 3



Christo Amsterdam Suzi you are worthy of my hug and the hugs of your kids...Love you sister!
21 hours ago · Like · 4



Bola Muyis Growing up as a child I confess there were days I wished my Dad won't come back home. I don't think he hated me at all but God he said some truly awful things... words that really hurt. Am not better than he was... but truly love has made all the difference. Thanks for sharing this Christo some things are just too painful to bring back up. But my Dad really is a good guy... I guess he just needed to "wake up" to LOVE like many of us if not ALL.
21 hours ago · Like · 3



Ghosty Love Open the eyes of my heart lor.... bolaaaa. Ha ha ha
21 hours ago · Like · 4



Ghosty Love I felt guilty for a second when my dad died because I was relieved. Though it was relief I loved him and still do.
21 hours ago · Like · 5



Bridget Chapman Christo thanks for being so transparent and vulnerable, theirs so much glory on that.
21 hours ago · Like · 4



Bola Muyis Hahahahaha Ghosty Love I remember that well
21 hours ago · Like · 2



Ghosty Love Ha ha ha it just came to me from Bridget Chapman comment
21 hours ago · Like · 2



Brigitte Pigram Suzi its gonna happen sis...sooner than later..but until it does..your kids know love better than anyone I know sis..I love you.xoxo
21 hours ago · Like · 4



Bridget Chapman Ghosty Love is another big testimony of how papa opened his eyes. Love you Chris.
21 hours ago · Like · 3



Ghosty Love I do think regardless of a perceived heaven were all the same and all together whatever form experienced.
21 hours ago · Like · 3



Ghosty Love Love you very much Bridget Chapman.
21 hours ago · Like · 3



Bola Muyis Suzi Chambelán I agree with Brigitte Pigram we love you regardless we are no better than you, we are in this together... ONE.
21 hours ago · Like · 5



Christo Amsterdam Where is Chris Dugger?
21 hours ago · Like · 4



Bola Muyis Chris Dugger where is you brother?
21 hours ago · Edited · Like · 3



Ghosty Love Teach me how to dugger.. Ha ha
21 hours ago · Like · 5



Christo Amsterdam as this thread continues we gonna have some great testimonies
21 hours ago · Like · 3



Cynthia Linox This is awesome Christo. Thank you for sharing.
My dad was an excellent provider. But I never heard him tell me he loved me. At 8yrs old he sent us to boarding school to a foreign country. I definitely did not hear it there. That was my "normal"
Knowing God has been my greatest blessing. I GOT IT FROM HIM! Now I'm free to indulge in the LVE exchange. And Thank God my husband reminds me every day.
21 hours ago · Like · 5



Jeanie Nauta beautiful Christo...love in us wins....love ya
21 hours ago · Like · 4



Shelina Joy That is awesome!
21 hours ago · Like · 2



Christo Amsterdam Cynthia Linox I salute all of you for sharing your amazing stories with me...Wow!!!
19 hours ago · Like · 1



Chris Dugger WOW christo i can so relate to not loving urself and trying to get it from others like ur parents and friends and that. but im finding out that there alot of ppl that dont understand what love really is so thats why its so important to love yourself cuz when u love urself ppls opinions and their conditional love wont affect u. im still working on loving myself cuz freaking religion says no its bad to love urself its vanity and all that shit and ur selfish ifu do well who the hell said selfish was a bad word lol. also this is so awesome ive never been talked about and loved from my family and friends like all of you guys and i appreciate and love every one of you guys Ghosty Love Christo Amsterdam Bola Muyis
17 hours ago · Edited · Like · 7



Ghosty Love Big O hugs.
12 hours ago · Like · 3



Christo Amsterdam Chris Dugger you are stil on time showing up hahaha i hope you were blessed by the testimonies of the family on this thread it is really awesome to know some can relate to us!
8 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1



Christo Amsterdam I'm not just enjoying you all as Family but also learning some valuable stuff! xoxoxo
11 hours ago · Like · 3



Christo Amsterdam where is Sarah Jenkins Kawa?
11 hours ago · Like · 1



Brigitte Pigram I think shes asleep
11 hours ago · Like · 1



LeRae McBroom
10 hours ago · Like · 2



Suzi Chambelán I love you verrrry much Christo. You're a great encourager & lover. You're amazing bro.
8 hours ago · Like · 2



Christo Amsterdam LeRae McBroom perhaps you have something to say to the family...I know whether you are blessing by this awesome testimonies?
8 hours ago · Like · 1



Christo Amsterdam Suzi Chambelán I love to include you in my tags now I know why I felt that way...Love you too very verry much!
8 hours ago · Like · 2



Christo Amsterdam Brigitte Pigram my Princess you Rock as Bola says...and now I sayi t to you! xoxoxo
5 hours ago · Edited · Like · 2



Debbie Fulcher Belch Christo Amsterdam!!! You are The Perfect Example of LOVE and I Adore YOU my Dear Loving Precious Dear ONE!!!!
4 hours ago · Like · 1



Debbie Fulcher Belch Yes... Brigitte Pigram ROCKS!!!!!
4 hours ago · Like · 1



Brigitte Pigram Christo I was missing my dad all day yesterday out of the blue until I realised last night the date was when he passed away 5 years ago..xo
4 hours ago · Like · 2



Brigitte Pigram No arguments there lol
4 hours ago · Like · 1



Debbie Fulcher Belch WOW!!! Brigitte, I have those bouts too.. my Daddy will never leave my HeART...he was my hero!!! Wow... we are so much ONE!!!
4 hours ago · Like · 1



Brigitte Pigram I know!!! Christo knew.he is my heart...no seperation.xo
3 hours ago · Like · 2



Debbie Fulcher Belch Wow wow wow!!!! We are ONE... No SEPARATION!!!! our Loved Ones gone from our sight...are waiting to unite with us...Never to Fright... Never to DOUBT...as We were taught if they were not RIGHT...oh My...what a terrible thang to tell those in grieving...oh my!!!!
3 hours ago · Like · 2



Brigitte Pigram Yep...what a lie..
3 hours ago · Like · 2



Brigitte Pigram We are connected from the beginning to the end...glory!!!
3 hours ago · Like · 2



Debbie Fulcher Belch GLOW~ry!!!!

The EX-Exclusives speak out on Facebook

What are some of the telltale signs that something is off kilter? Well Jesus Himself gave quite a run down in both chapter 6 of Matthew and later in chapter 23.But any people anywhere that turn back from following the Holy Spirit closely will find all the same independent self traits filing back in like expelled demons, only when they return ,they return 7 times stronger than before.
I had never really met Plymouth Brethren until I met those expelled for reasons of baptism in the Spirit. Ian McCulloch and his brother David who were in Emsworth Christian Church were both "mish kids" out in Argentina of a family that were with the Brethren. When Ian was baptised in the Spirit he lost his own missionary position so returned to England, which was a blessing for our lives....but one wonders what he wasn't able to accomplish in missionary work because they stopped it!!!
Apparently the new ruler in chief of the Exclusive Brethren clan is a man called Bruce Hales....see what you can glean from Ex Exclusives picking over the ashes....


I tune pianos for Brethren clients. Actually they are very conducive to tuning because the lounges are always sparsely furnished, easy on the eye and not distracting. The atmosphere can be a bit Stepford wives with nothing out of place, which makes me wonder how many of the brethren pyramid structures have themselves been infiltrated by other Rothschild layering. Scientology establishments can have the same Stepford wives sterility. So about four things give away a Brethren house 1. the wives are house wives yet peculiarly they survive very well on a single male income. 2. the rooms are immaculate and simply furnished. 3. there is no TV but they will probably likely have a piano. and 4. the bookcases will appear to be stacked out with the same coloured book, but these are in fact collections of sermons from the history of the Brethren movement.


Facebook Group Ex Exclusive Brethren  27 July 2013 · Edited



****NOTE:****** This is a public group, anyone can read, but must be a member to be able to post.
It has been a number of weeks since one of the Administrators left this group for good reasons. So far, this group has managed to fumble along for itself which would be good if it continues as such. It would save a lot of stress, complaints both publicly and privately and it would be a shame if this group had to close down. Beginning tomorrow, there will be no hesitation in immediately removing any offending remarks when possible, that may be seen as hurtful to others. Keep calm and think before you speak.
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RECENT POSTS

News FeedJane Von Der Becke
16 September at 19:19


I have been pondering the irony of a group who are so anti Catholic/Pope themselves setting up an elect vessel through whom all decisions have to be made.It is unbelievable really.All the teaching in the Bible about there being 'one mediator' and the curtain to the holy of holies being torn in two to give us direct access. Why oh why do they all give such importance to such an unpleasant and power seeking man. I can understand giving respect and honour to someone humble,Christlike and godly but what on the earth do they respect about Bruce??
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15 people like this.


Graham Westie Nason it's not respect, it's "blind dogmatism"
16 September at 19:25 · Like · 1



Heather Mary Porter His immense girth ????
16 September at 19:35 · Like · 1



Chris Donald remember if anyone disagrees with bruce allmighty they would be joining our ranks within a hour or so....
16 September at 20:00 · Like · 4



Gordon Martin Fear of being blackmailed and cut off from family by the cult that has taken over every element of their lives. That's why we can call them a cult since 1959-60. More moderate at the beginning with some "no no's" but the individual's conscience was respected.. ... Now it's ruthless response to the so-called "Man of God" who has co-opted the individual's conscience.. Yes Jane, Brucie & gang have become much worse than the once disdained (by the Breth) Pope in the Vatican.
16 September at 20:19 · Like · 6



Heather Mary Porter The Pope is a lovely man and walks with the people ,doesn't ride in a blacked out windowed limo
16 September at 20:41 · Like · 3



Glenys Dent Exactly right Gordon
16 September at 22:22 · Like



Ann Kerr Jane in the 50's if you were asked about your minister by outsiders we would answer we don't have one. The connection for Australia (Sydney in particular) was when JT jnr's daughter married Bruce Hales snr. from that point it took off and the Hales were royalty. Prob there was a hot line to USA ! The type of man you describe as one you could respect etc was side-lined there were many mature in the faith Christians who could have led the brethren. The open brethren haven't had the same problem but their numbers have diminished over time. Mmmm still too strict, I like the fact God gave me a brain and a conscience!!
16 September at 22:33 · Like · 3



Gordon Martin Yes, it was very difficult for the then young me to know what to say to non-EB buddies about our non-religion religion!
16 September at 22:59 · Like · 1



Ken Wallis There are a number of differences between the Pope and the "elect vessel ". The pope is elected by a semi democratic process.... The ev is elected by his former ev. There is already joking for this position within the PBcc now. If it is possible to be worse it is looking favourable . The pope has a heart for the people the ev has only a heart for himself and his possition. It is the congregation that suffers and anyone that may ask a question not considered favourable to the ev.
17 September at 01:34 · Like · 3



Gordon Martin Agreed Ken! I find nothing "spiritual" in today's Brethren. They will make superficial changes because of the Charities Commission. As to the "flock" they're being well-fleeced and unable to respond for fear of losing family contacts, and also their income if they're tied into the "system". They may mumble their prayers and join in the hymns, but there is nothing but ritual in their meaning. Interesting how "business" especially in Oz and .."strilia" have become so prominent in their role. Clutched from NYC and the Taylors who had their kick at the can.
17 September at 01:46 · Like · 2



Derek Kelly Yup its a ritual
17 September at 02:52 · Like · 1



James Hamilton a day will come, if people want to keep following him - they are the silly ones
17 September at 06:36 · Like · 1



Jane Von Der Becke I still get the impression that the elderly brethren who still would not have tv/computers and who are well removed from what is going on centrally, would not necessarily fear him but not sure if they revere him or just try and carry on like he is not there. I have met some dear old brethren through my line of work who quite genuinely love the Lord but when I chat to them and 'fess up to who I am, they can't help themselves trying to get me back 'in'. Next time I will ask what they think of Hales and see what reaction I get. It really is SO weird when you follow a doctrine of non elected leadership. CRAZY.
17 September at 07:30 · Like · 3



Alistair Deayton I remember in the late sixties some old front row brother in Glasgow saying the J T Jr. that if we didn't do something or other, and I forget, what it was, he would be the Brethren Pope. Can't remember Mr Jim's reply though
17 September at 08:09 · Like · 2



Eleanor Wills I remember how quickly younger brothers especially got behind JTJnr. They couldn't get enough of the alcoholic. 2 Timothy 2 was quoted ad nauseam and self appointed spies popped up to ensure that the many contradictory rules were being followed. I wonder why the generations were so different. Perhaps the older gentler brethren were shaped by the hardships of the 1930s Depression and the Wars whereas the younger generation who here in Aust. had things pretty easy were bored with living a simple life and wanted to feel important.
17 September at 09:46 · Edited · Like · 2



Ann Kerr Eleanor my thoughts are that up until late 50's there were plenty of genuine Christians there. Young ones were spied on it has always been a very judgmental church. Once the senior Hales dictatorship took hold older very genuine brethren just had to go along with their orders. When alcohol was forced upon everyone, the older brethren found that difficult to accept as it was foreign territory to most. In my opinion that was the beginning of the downfall of the peebs. JT jnr is proof of the damage that was caused.
17 September at 11:14 · Like · 2



Ken Wallis Eleanor Wills, have you noticed that the part of 2 Timothy 2 quoted and forced on members, is not scripture? JND inserted it in brackets. ( In separating himself from them) Although Revelation tells us what becomes of someone adding to the word, I doubt JND intended it to be used as gospel, but who knows?You will not find these words in the originals or King James Version and I believe they are not part of Gods word. Little wonder this church has descended into a cult.
17 September at 11:39 · Like · 4



Jane Von Der Becke I think the current PBCC version of the Bible has removed the brackets....so if any PBCC are reading this and want the truth....get yourselves an old copy of JND's KJB and see for yourselves that (in separating himself from them) is inserted/added by JND in 2 Tim 2 v 21 and the whole basis of separation in PBCC is based on a thought by JND which is not in original texts of scripture. How the devil must be laughing! All that hurt/pain and family division caused by quoting a scripture that is not even real. No wonder there is a scripture warning severely against adding to the word on God....see the consequences it can have!
17 September at 12:13 · Like · 3



Glenys Dent A very good post Ken, we were forbidden from reading any other Bible translation, so we all grew up knowing nothing other than the JND version and the much mis-interpretation and twisting of scripture, that so often occurred in effort to justify the extreme ideologies that crept in particularly after JTJnr took over and this got worse and more rules were added to the list with each takeover that followed up to JSH.
Things have changed dramatically for the worse with the self-appointment of BDH. The HEBs have now become a full blown extremist CULT with no principles or Christian morals.
17 September at 12:37 · Like · 3



Eleanor Wills I was referring to 2 Timothy2.19. - 'Yet the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal,[The] Lord knows those that are his; and,Let everyone who names the name of [the] Lord withdraw from iniquity'. This was the Scripture that was quoted over and over to back the Separation Doctrine in 1959 and through the 1960s..
17 September at 13:23 · Like



Ken Wallis Yes Eleanor Wills that bit is scripture and stands, however the enfaces on separation was on the words that we're never scripture. " in separating himself from them"
17 September at 14:25 · Like · 2



Gordon Martin Who decided what was "iniquitous" ?
17 September at 14:50 · Like · 1



Deb Ghinn Who decided that one must busily separate from iniquity in others, rather than just in one's self?
17 September at 15:37 · Edited · Like · 3



Bevan Thomas it came about through applying the separation doctrine to their physical lives, it is only intended to apply to the spiritual life... in fact they seem to apply scripture entirely to their physical life when most of it is intended for a spiritual application. There is a qualifying verse that states no one can separate from sin physically, they would have to depart the earth.
17 September at 21:55 · Like · 2



Jill Moxham So true, Bevan. I've often reflected how impossible it is to live a 'spiritual' life in there because it's application is so distorted. They see what is regarded as 'spirit' - as having evil connotations. They believe in a 'holy spirit' which is anything but what they demonstrate. They are so removed from 'spirit' its not funny - their application of scriptural references being acted out literally, proves such.
17 September at 22:55 · Edited · Like · 1



Bevan Thomas I have a theory that this came about by their focussing on Paul's teachings and forgetting about the teachings of Jesus, who regularly explained to the disciples the spiritual meaning and application of His physical sounding messages. Paul being a lawyer appears very legalistic when taken on his own and that I believe is where the eb's seriously stuffed up.
17 September at 23:03 · Like



Gordon Martin Frankly I just think that it was corruption cloaked with nit-picking of scriptures. "Power corrupts. And absolute power corrupts absolutely" as the saying goes.
17 September at 23:18 · Like · 3



Jill Moxham The 'Elect's' being the descended line of 'Paul's'.( So often I've heard that, that it flew over my head). Now it begins to makes more sense - I wondered why Jesus's teachings weren't followed more!.
17 September at 23:34 · Like · 3



Greg Morris "Power TENDS to corrupt" is thw actual quote. The point about physical / spiritual separation is important but I think that if we are united with Christ and dedicate ourselves to holding fast to him, we will be holy by connection to him as opposed to holy by separation from other Christians. This does not exclude physical separation which might at times be required in some circumstances.
18 September at 08:11 · Edited · Like · 1



Jane Von Der Becke hey Greg......wondered when you would turn up....where've you been?!
18 September at 08:32 · Like



Greg Morris The brackets in 2 Timothy are quite legitimate as far as I can see. It is intended to convey the idea that purifying oneself requires movement: the complexity of such action is shown in the other instance of this verb (cited by Darby in his note on 2 Tim) 1 Cor 5:7 where the purging out seems to be physical albeit with spiritual consequences. in my 1920s version there are no brackets at all which would indicate that this interpretation of JNDs is acceptable to Exclusive Brethren generally not just Taylorites. Which explains the readiness of all branches of EB to divide rather than unite.
18 September at 08:37 · Like



Jane Von Der Becke but is removing the brackets legitimate?
18 September at 08:38 · Like



Eleanor Wills My understanding of Scripture is that an interpretation (brackets or not) is dependent on its readers' connection with the written word. I'm not sure if the word legitimate is useful here. All religions have their Bible so it is tricky to label one Bible more legitimate than another.
18 September at 08:44 · Like



Alistair Deayton The Amplified Bible puts 2 Timothy 2:21 as
" So whoever cleanses himself [from what is ignoble and unclean, who separates himself from contact with contaminating and corrupting influences] "
not physical separation
18 September at 08:49 · Like



Greg Morris Lol it depends if they were there in the first place. You will be shocked to hear, Janey, that I don't have a copy of the 1st edition. To some extent it is an editorial decision. The French version reads "Si donc quelqu'un se purifie de ceux-ci" no additional explanation is required as the reflexive nature of the verb indicates some sort of movement is required. Deb Ghinn's observation is very true: we are often very keen to purify others rather than turn the spotlight on ourselves.
18 September at 08:50 · Like



Greg Morris Darby's Translation is far from perfect. it was intended as a study bible to bring to believers the fruits of the latest textual criticism. Darby and other PBs were terribly excited at the discovery of Greek MSS which they believed would bring about a more stable Greek New Testament text based on better analysis to discern which were the most reliable texts. in that aim, JND was in the mainstream of 19th century scholarship. He went one step further. He provided detailed textual notes indicating how the versions divide up on a particular verse and what weight he gives to the ancient MSS and "modern" eg 16th century printed versions. So he is being quite open about showing how he arrives at his translation. He accepted that the AV was in desperate need of correction but does not suggest that his translation should be used in public readings of the Word. The 1881 hymnbook was bound with the AV not the "New Translation"
18 September at 09:07 · Like



Greg Morris The Amplified Bible given by Alistair seems to me to show that JND with or without brackets is quite orthodox in his translation. How his followers interpret the translation is another story!
18 September at 09:14 · Edited · Like



Bevan Thomas Greg, I prefer your point holy by connection than by personal action, 1 Cor 1:30 explains it perfectly that Christ is our righteousness, holiness and redemption which makes connection with Him the only option.
18 September at 12:12 · Like



Gordon Martin The behaviour of people to others seems to me to be more important than nit-picking over translations. The basic message of the New Testament is caring, forgiving and sacrificing for others.
18 September at 13:28 · Like · 5



Eleanor Wills I agree Gordon. The EB experience put me right off religion. I know that there are good people within the EB as there are anywhere but when one puts religion before humanity like many of our families have done then their so called Christianity is a farce. Who cares what a person believes in so long as that person behaves in a civilised way. When I left home I was amazed by the kindness and understanding that came from people outside. It was the first time that humanity was shown to me.
20 September at 12:46 · Like · 6



Bevan Thomas Yep I doubt anyone would disagree, that's what love is isn't it Gordon and Eleanor, people before anything? Perhaps it might be different for others but the REASON I like to nit-pick interpretations is to find where they went wrong so I can avoid anything like it again and maybe even turn the genuine ones from their ways. my motive is people first unconditionally. The interesting thing about religious authority is that the people under them demand it, feel secure under it and feel righteous when they obey it, they don't follow God they follow human authority manipulating God, the people insist on it. How can you fight that?
21 September at 01:41 · Like · 4



Greg Morris Spot on, Bevan. I would add that if nit-picking gives us a more reliable text of the Hebrew and Greek Bibles and other Versions, we will not be worse off but greatly enriched.
21 September at 08:47 · Like



Deb Ghinn Jane I think it is EB habit (certainly Taylorite EB) to just automatically tell themselves that their leader IS humble,Christlike and godly no matter what they get up to. Those three descriptors can be used to cover a multitude of sins and character traits and behaviours, when one is not using one's critical faculties properly (or never got to develop them in the first place).
21 September at 09:32 · Like · 3



Gordon Martin Each of us has a personal approach to understanding the Bible. Obviously some like the Breth can use it to support their disgusting behaviour. And then there are those who have never read or heard the Bible who can be kinder and more forgiving than those who poke their noses into the "Good Book" every day.
21 September at 11:59 · Like · 1



Jane Von Der Becke I guess in the days of the 'no internet / computers' ruling it must have been hard for UK EB to know much about what the MOG was up to but these days I hope a few of them have enough curiosity to read some of these posts and at least start to wonder whether he is quite as special as he would like them to believe!
21 September at 18:08 · Like · 4



Ken Wallis Jane, just read the spin by. Tony McCorkel in the nz press covering the mog visit to nz. They are using the very services' they banned and withdrew from people for using to keep the flock with the wool over their eyes. The only way they are" not that different" is the fact that so many, including Tony are morbidly obese. And even in that the percentage is way above average,but it's ok because the mog is.
21 September at 23:57 · Like · 2



Ash Ghinn I got into bible translation styles once, but I've seriously lapsed! There's a whole range of styles from "formal equivalence" (like Darby and KJV) where they try and translate word for word and keep the original form, right through to paraphrase (like Good News), where they forget original form and rephrase each sentence to be best understood in the reader's language.

So the formal equivalence method would translate the French phrase "que est-ce que ce est?" as "what is it that it is?", whereas the paraphrase method would translate it as "what is it?" or "what's that?".

People argue endlessly about the superiority of each translating method, with those preferring a more literal "formal equivalence" style usually bemoaning those awful paraphrase translators for taking liberties with the original text and putting their own fanciful interpretation on the words. So for Darby to provide a detailed description ("in separating himself from them") to the original writer's meaning of the word "ekkathairo" (to cleanse) he makes a big departure from the traditional formal equivalence principle, and must have been cock sure of himself to do so.
Yesterday at 04:14 · Like · 4



Greg Morris Darby doesn't strike me as a man lacking in confidence! Most translations of this word are translating as it were kathairo to purify or cleanse. I think Darby is trying to bring out the nuance of ekk which in classical authors seems to be understood as purging out thoroughly. Tyndale often drops the formal equivalence to excellent effect. Joseph was a "lucky fellow". On the other hand he recognises a good metaphor can be literally translated. "The eyelids of the dawn" is a similar literal metaphor used at Job 41:18. If you read that "before you stands an open door" the metaphor is powerful. You don't need to be patronised by a translator announcing that "there are plenty of opportunities ahead" Too much paraphrase is very tiring: it is a good seasoner but I think that used too much it leads to very flabby prose.
Yesterday at 08:54 · Like · 1



Glenys Dent Eleanor, I hear you, I experienced the same. I agree 100%

The Facebook Forum

Chris Welch
Imagine how painful Peter James and John would find it relating the Transfiguration on Facebook. Half would claim they were trying to appear spiritual. Michael Hardin would call them gnostics. The scientists would all point to some illusory state caused by psychosis. How hard it has made things now everyone looks out of eyes which mirror bitter and hardened hearts.

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Chucky Head and Elaine Pedersen like this.

Michael O'Hara "Then answered Peter, and said to Jesus, 'Lord, it is good for us to be here online with you: if you will, let us build here three websites; one for you, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah."
12 hours ago · Like

Chris Welch In Jesus day He had the overview to see He was building lives with Himself...not buildings. Is such a thing possible online? The disciples had all sorts of form of Word coming at them including ,where necessary rebuke....this generation online dont or ...See More
9 hours ago · Like

Chris Welch In Jesus day He had the overview to see He was building lives with Himself...not buildings. Is such a thing possible online? The disciples had all sorts of form of Word coming at them including ,where necessary rebuke....this generation online dont or cant or perhaps are worth more than mere black and white lettering....so anyway we're at an impasse. There is no church online....only a tarty community that tries to be nice to each other....but there is no thirdlevel church offline either yet. One is limited by the media. Offline is limited by paucity of mature Word that Jesus gave. And nope.. I currently have no answer. But clearly without worship and seeing each other move in that context any form of deeper relating is viewed as completely skewy..with a similar accuracy level of perception as an 8year old boy considering why he would ever kiss a girl and get married. People are visual and first Jesus then 12 disciples in Acts 2 modelled their believing......their new consciousness. Doesnt really work online
9 hours ago · Like · 1

Michael O'Hara It IS a "social media" and it's hard to escape that cultural atmosphere. I've been on a few subjects over the years whereby those on it seemed anointed and we sort of "clicked" but very few in many years. Sometimes we are called to speak word (s) and leave it there but we get pulled into a discussion and lose the clarity. (Heavens like Paul said "I am the chief of sinners" in that capacity.
7 hours ago · Like

Chris Welch I have often compared this section of my life to Paul's time in the forum expounding "his gospel". He never did it that way again. I don't think I will. But what it gives you is an extreme crash course in how different people believe. None of us set out to start huge rucouses, we only see our corner on truth. Paul's corner on truth has outlasted every other historical empire as yet because 1. it plumbs the depth of who humans really are and who they are not.2.it lays a foundation of Christ's actual Person and 3.the vehicle which is the only one sanctioned by God to properly propagate the message: THE CHURCH made up of local churches of sold out individuals to the grace of God.

*********************************
Rich Novek
Your Word is a LAMP to my feet And a LIGHT to my path. Psalm 119:105

A lamp is not a flood light, neither is it a 100,000 candle power flashlight. Christ IN us as our lamp provides just enough light to our feet to take the next step.

How else would we ever know what it means to walk by (His) Faith and not our sight?

Like · · Share · 10 hours ago · Edited ·
Breck Rubin, Emmanuel Rendas, Betty Lorine Schwabedissen and 14 others like this.
4 shares

Christie Trabazo Gibson Amen Amen & Amen
10 hours ago · Like · 1

Lori Rockriver Amen
9 hours ago · Like · 1

Merle Rutherfoord-Jones Love it Rich it makes such sense
4 hours ago · Like · 1

Breck Rubin To see Him leading the Way as Provider.
about an hour ago · Like

Chris Welch Here's another difference. The reference to light in the gospels is the one about setting it on a stand...it is not to be hidden. Now in the Spirit I can see two completely different uses of the Light.
For one set of people it is all about having enough light in this world of darkness to be able to function in our agendas. Have a job,a good living, a good house, a good car, pay our taxes...some to relax with....and just to achieve these things requires some Light to get around with. This however is like using a lamppost to see up your driveway. if you are that worried about your driveway, I would suggest a houselight. At least that would be more honest.
The Light of God is a HIGHWAY. It is a HIGHWAY of HOLINESS.
The Light of God is to put out all Darkness on the Earth for all time.For this reason was the Son of God manifest to destroy all the works of the evil one."
It is a totally different agenda.
One person uses Light to just about get by.
The other person sees the Light and believes Jesus words
"The Gates of hell shall not prevail against my congregation."

While I was working this morning I had this phrase go through my brain
"LADIES CIRCLE" CHURCH
Church that satisfies all our homely requirements and keeps the ladies happy.
It is a totally different form of church to the one espoused in the book Wild At Heart by John Eldredge.
I think the Union Crowd are a bit of a Ladies Circle Church.
Fred Pruitt puts up a few roaring lion noises every so often.
I suppose many men long decided about Facebook as a social medium it is a ladies's domain and what else can be expected.
I'm only on here and my blog because any realworld environment was completely closed until 2008.
It comes as agreat shock to me as a bloke who wrote off Facebook from the start as not for us guys....that I'm on here.
Well we've had a bash. But the power of the Jezebel spirit here disguised as kindly women with beaming faces, is pretty strong, and already the men are beginning to look like emaciated waifs who dare not speak above the Politically Correct speech of the Ladies Circle. Even if our generation never make it, and I intend to.....the next generation down will see straight through these women and the result of their version of Gospel Lite. LIGHT.
See LIGHT has a 12 tribe spectrum. And for ladies it is enough for there to be a 6 tribe core agreement. I don't know if it's a man type thing. It DOES SEEM TO BE A THIRDLEVEL THING...but the only ladies I know that can handle anything like 12 tribes worth of spectrum are already in all Christian bookstores.
people like Corrie Ten Boom. Mother Basilea Schlink. Mother Teresa. Whether they can articulate it properly or not, it does seem that built into man's ribcages is the FULL KINGDOM spectrum. Whenever you see churches of largely female congregants, you should steel your self as soon as you enter, especially if you are the one preaching. Hidden behind those welcoming smiles the reason will soon become apparent as the spirit of Jezebel attacks you full on to try and pare down your gospel to creepy crawly worm size, instead of the threshing sledge that is in your chestcavity. BEWARE BEWARE O MAN the LADIES CIRCLE CHURCH.
27 minutes ago · Like

Rich Novek Too late Chris, most Christian men have been completely emasculated by the lie, so what's the alternative?
16 minutes ago · Like

Chris Welch shopwindow mannequins!!!

Chris Welch I actually don't have a problem with women not handling all tribes worth of material, because perhaps that is the wisdom of God in order that they be what they are good at. My problem with women is when their collective agenda closes down the work of God as it advances in this generation. Nowhere is this more apparent to me than in those having the closest gospel to the one in the Bible, namely the Union crowd. Because none of them have the vision of the Church, we are condemned to this slow drip drip, decade long advance. And largely for no other reason than those of this generation who were quicker at picking up Norman Grubb's discoveries happened to be women...but they never completed the job. It seems to be outside the scope of what they can handle or imagine.
49 minutes ago · Like

Chris Welch A good way of discovering what women want in a man is to look at eunuchs or gay men. In the UK we have a fashion stylist called Gok Wan. As he is gay and interested in clothes and high street life, he is the archetype of all that women would seem to want in their males. Kind of like a plaything. A fount of relevant female information. Absolutlely no threat of hankypanky as that is the last thing he wants to do with women!!!

It's very similar online. Christian women want these playthings. Furry little purveyors of Biblical insight and knowhow, plus someone to pray with them in the problems of the week or the odd real crisis's. For years this has been their relationship with pastors. In no unreal sense has it been a scapegoat for their own spouse who is often perceived as a farting, snoring, skiddie producing person who does supply some of the house income, but also has this annoying insight into the psychology of the wife, and she just isn't interested because some of it at least could be negative. So in churches everywhere, the glamourpussies avert their gaze to pastors like Joel Osteen or other Joseph Prince doe eyed candy...especially when they repeat the glorious childhood food of Romans 3 to 5 on a weekly basis. You can see it is infinitely more pleasurable.

But none of it is covenantal relationship. It's brush back my locks Gok Wan, relating.
32 minutes ago · Like

Chris Welch So in short, has facebook worked? Well it is surprising what we have been able to share in only 4 to 6 years, which up until then was absolutely impossible in the larger world, which is so entrenched in the Genesis 3 lie from the atheist in one corner right through to a church as prophetic as Havant and IHOP and Toronto Vineyard and Bethel,Redding.
Are there drawbacks? Yes. Like the manger in the stable, and born with no human proof of a Father...this was not ideal humanly speaking for Jesus when He began ministering. So in the same way, a social medium largely perceived as a gossiphouse for women, isn't the ideal venue for credibility for rolling out the Royal Highway of Galations 2:20 living. Especially when the agenda of most Christian women is spiritually speaking at least (And I have not had any of the other kind...so I must really speak clearly here to protect others) non covenantal. Apart from ladies such as Annalize Mouton who recognise the seriousness of what the Body of Christ is, most other christian women haven't a clue. They are in it for themselves and their small parochial eyed view of the world. The exceptions are magnificent. Like Elaine Waterfield. Most Christian women today just weren't around for when God was rolling out the covenantal vison of Church as community in the 70s. It's a glorified coffeehouse, and Facebook is absolutely superb for breeding this view of what Christian relating is. In the week that I have heard of a man drop dead in the UK after deliberately not heeding an apostolic Word, can I just say that this whole idea of men as Christian playthings is not just false, it could prove deadly. The Bible puts it this way "rightly discern the Body of Christ...for in not doing so are many now sick and some have even died." We are dealing with the House of God. Whether a manger, or Facebook is ultimately the best vehicle...it is the House of God we are dealing with.