Where charismatic becomes cult

Some of the conversations here are very much a tool for learning. 

In Acts the magician asked how he might get the anointing. He could evidently see how much power reputation and money he could make. Paul struck the man blind for he could see the spirit of bitterness and probably Genesis 3 orphanhood that the man was asking in, seeking to " bolster up his self" like a personal fortress.
Shannon Fyffe has just highlighted this and before he goes blind or some such you can get three prophecies for a box set of $100 dollars. Perhaps this is why the Lord hasn't " overdone" the second level of His growth stages because there aren't enough thirdlevellers to cause people to go blind temporarily. Third level police force. Not that Simon Elymas was a Christian yet as far as we know and generally speaking , Peter and Ananias and Sapphyra notwithstanding, God doesn't appoint a " police force" but sovereignly moves through a whole variety of unspecified means to maintain His Word and holiness. God never said to Peter I make you a policeman of men..... but a fisher of men. And being fished says Isaiah 55 and Revelation 22 is without price.

Later note...
My memory has squashed two incidents together, both "policing incidents"...Acts 8 with Peter and the magician Simon, Acts 13 with Paul and the magician Elymas.







One of the people in Shannon Fyffes thread defended the prophet selling prophecies with a reference to mountains of influence and here, financial.



I want to belt this mountains of influence thing head on today.
This is charismatic speak.
This is where charismatic becomes cult.

Mountains are of the earth.
King Saul was head and shoulders government .
Not by might, nor by power but by my Spirit says the Lord.
We don't go down to use the horses of Egypt.
Everything Satan builds he builds in pyramids. It's the only way he knows how to get everybody building according to his will....
By fear and terror.

So Chris..... you saying God doesn't use the things of earth?
No I am saying psalm24.1 the earth is the Lords , but not just mountains.
Was Moses a mountain? A murderer, he now couldn't use his " mountain" advantages and had to flee the Pharoahs court. 40 years later he didn't even have influence over Israels elders.... except for Spirit manifestation.
Was Jesus a mountain? Assumed a bastard, like much of UK society elite today, the Jews screened Him out for religious training.
Jesus was Spirit taught.
" a mans gift makes way for itself ".
Jesus HAD the goods.

The charismatic, Saulish head and shoulders government bolsters Gods pauses, like Saul did with Samuel, by " doing the stuff itself"

It reverts back to Lance Wallnau mountains, and uses Freemasonrys plan to fight the world system humanly.

Gods kingdom doesn't use worldly infrastructures.
Gods kingdom IS the spontaneous life
Our victory IS OUR FAITH
GODS KINGDOM
IS THE VOLUNTEERING
IS THE CHRIST JOINTS BUILDING THE BODY BY THAT WHICH EACH...... when working properly.... supplies.
Gods Kingdom IS THE TESLA INVENTOR IN THE MIDDLE OF EASTERN EUROPE nowhere near the scientific centres of America and U.K.

GODS KINGDOM IS INDIVIDUALS BEING BUILT TO WORK PROPERLY, to function out of their innards, their rivers of life.

The world system is an entire construct made to look real by engineering each man to his task, by controlling and compartmentalisation.

Gods Kingdom know the Lord from the least to the greatest

The world don't know anything apart from what is passed down to them top down

The Kingdom is overseen by elders.... who HAVE THE STUFF

the world is run by people who harvest from everybody else so it looks like they are something but inwardly do not, but are compliant to Satans will or else they would not be allowed in their slots.

The world have kings. God always advised against kings.
" They will exact huge tributes"
" it is not you Samuel but Me ( Israel have rejected"

After centuries, most of the tributes are now hidden. Nearly nobody knows Shell Oil, literally is a shell company.

Gods will concerning us it says in Romans 8 is for the sons to come into their inheritance. Our inheritance is that we are blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places.... even the abolition of death itself.

We overcome by churches coming into the full growth mechanisms in the Spirit of 1 John 2

We don't go down to Egypt hunt out some horses, and cobble up some strategy of building mountains....

We lay the axe to the root
We overturn the Genesis 3 phoney existence
We train our senses according to righteousness so we can discern the difference between
The spirit of Good from the spirit of evil.

The 7th note

How dangerous is the charismatic movement?
It's like the 7th note of the scale played with the octave...(the last note before you get back to" do a deer, a female deer") It's so nearly there it sounds awful played against a true octave
You have to go through it to grow
Judas, St Peter, Thomas, were all charismatics when they did what they are famous for
It claims to be "the final thing" which is the most dangerous thing about the whole move...they are not the final thing...the final thing is moving from REST, of only doing what you see the Father doing. This , the fact that it is a "young man stage" movement in every aspect of its theology, from leadership dependence, to a continual seeking of God when it isn't God who needs to be found!!!!! The seeking is all about US being found...errrr...in Him.
The two houses of God today, the evangelical house and the charismatic house are , like King Saul, two of the most dangerous places to be, because they still have "positions" but they don't follow the Cloud, which moved on long ago. Just about all current leadership, which visually, in context, currently looks OK, are actually like Buckingham Palace Guards in their posts, but the Queen isn't there she is in another country.
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Edward Ojunju, David September and 2 others like this.


Sylvia Dunn Mobley Selah!!
13 hours ago · Like · 2



If you are struggling in a charismatic church and just in increasingly worse confusion about it (see the previous status) then make an internal decision to "follow the octave" and more and more you will see all the stuff that charismatics do that God just isn't doing. You may get chucked out, like Song of Solomon 5 says, but at least you'll be beyond waiting around Bethesda Pool endlessly waiting for an Angel to stir the waters for you....Christ in you will be in charge of your own destiny!!!!
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Camille K. Jordalen, Laurie Hastings and 2 others like this



If you want to see a charismatic in action, think of Peter slicing off the ear of a guard, which Jesus had to stick back on. This is USA and UK, who in the name of God, butcher their way through the world to maintain their heroin trade and new oil pipelines and call it fighting terror.
Who is going to stick some ears back on?

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Ashley Chen Hong, Cindi Estep and Chuck Gibbs like this.
Facebook Extracts from my personal Timeline this week

Extract from a Charismatic Bible Handbook

This is a spoof but
Kenneth Copeland and  Rick Joyner are both encouraging people to join together with the Catholic pyramid structure under the Pope.

Addendum  My position
I am not in the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
I am taking the role of the Angel with Joshua who asked him "Oy you , whose side are you on?" And the angel said "No." in reply to an either/or question.
I am taking the Shulammite position in Song of Songs 6:13 as she dances between two armies, two positions.
I am in the Tree of Life, Jesus Christ.

The protestant position is as useless as the catholic's position which is something Gerald Coates and George Tarleton were trying to get over in the 70s.

If we try to take up a permanent position like Jonah, and the other party changes and accepts the grace of God, who are we to stay weeping under a tree?

So I say to the Pope as I do to Kenneth Copeland, while you peddle 0 level,1st leveland 2nd level Christianity you have not even started to deal with the fly in the ointment, the leaven in the Bread, all the Genesis 3 curses which keep you behind the veil. Our message is the Body and the Blood of Jesus...but not as rite, but rather as lived and discussed in John 6 under anointing by Jesus...who caused the same offense that day too.

We do not connect with the Pope, with Rick Joyner, with Kenneth Copeland , with Chris Welch. We connect solely with Christ.
If my life is hidden with Christ in God you will bump into me there.
If their lives are hidden with Christ in God, you will bump into them there. But fixing an organisation down here and calling it the church, and especially adding military overtones, as do Catholics ,Anglicans,and Lutherans, is to erect a tombstone right there.

The Communist iron curtain did not fall because of some catholic militia, it fell without bloodshed because Polish Catholics and evangelicals had had enough, and were desperately connecting with the throne of God about it in their many prayer meetings, followed by subsequent peaceful solidarity protest.

I am Church and you are Church only just as long as you or I are in active connection to the Melchizedek Order, and like the servant in Psalm 123, watching keenly for the slightest motion of the hand of His Master.

The Sticking Point of the Charismatic and Pentecostal Movement

Something like David's new cart, as he confidently brought the Ark of the Covenant back from its exile towards Jerusalem, the charismatic and pentecostal movements also  hit a bump in the road.

You can tell a bump in the road, an obstacle. It's the point beyond which churches do not move. Pastors repeat the same sermon over and over again in different forms, with ever greater frustration and pressure on the sheep.

And if they don't get John 15, it doesn't get easier going through John 16 and 17.

Perhaps it is true to say this is precisely where everyone lost hope with Maurice Smith's John 17 prophecy.

Around 1974 having just read Brother Lawrence's book , Marcus Roberts and I were on a bus, thinking we'd like to try practicing "Praying Constantly"...or "Abiding".

Hmm....didn't even make it to the end of the bus journey!

And it doesn't matter how much pastors lean on this concept of the importance of Abiding in the Vine, it still gets no nearer becoming reality in charismatic and pentecostal frameworks.

And there is a very simple reason.
It's the same reason that repentance actually comes from the Greek words meta and nous....metanoia.
Or  meta...moving out beyond the confines of....and nous....(nowce) the conscious thinking mind....or leftbrain sliver at the frontal cortex of our brain.

The conscious mind doesn't do abiding!. It's not meant to. It's meant to be given different tasks to solve.To think about. To plan.Once it's completed it's task, it doesn't just hover in the air feeling content to do nothing. It wants the next thing to get its teeth stuck into.

So everywhere in the world, these poor charismatic and pentecostal pastors are piling on more and more pressure to get a piece of us doing something it was never geared to do, and getting more and more frustrated at the failure.

YOU CAN'T MAKE JOHN 15 WORK IN THE LEFTBRAIN.

Proverbs 3 puts it this way.
Trust in the Lord with ALL of the BIT that can handle the Lord, and Abiding....namely the Heart.
And don't rely on that slender bit of restrictive apparatus that can only work with the limited parameters of sense information that you give it to work with.

It cannot work with a Kingdom that is appearing out of nowhere, out of the heavenlies.
Now the leftbrain will say, like any confident atheist,....there....the fact that I cannot see the Kingdom tells me I can confidently relay that you Christians are speaking a load of tosh.

Nope. All it's saying is that bit of the Kingdom that HAS ARRIVED...that the leftbrain now exploits and calls evolutionary appearance under man's own steam....is not the bit of the Kingdom that our heart already perceives from afar off.

So back to abiding?
Proverbs 3 continues to give the lowdown on how abiding works.
Acknowledge God IN ALL YOUR WAYS...driving,building, washing,measuring,laughing, shooting at goals,whatever..... And He will make straight your paths.

Acknowledge does not mean try your hardest to think continually about...
Acknowledge means tip your hat to...
Expect and trust in God's Life within you to settle itself within the context of that particular task.
As the disciples asked Jesus....
^{John6:28 -29}Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” ²⁹ Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
In our context we trust in that Life that is Christ within us 
to get us to that place of Abiding
in whatever sphere of life we are acknowledging.

This is a very similar principle to the principle of balance when we are learning to ride a bike.
We have to believe that eventually "flow"...or grace....or however you call the Life of Christ will rise to undergird us.  First comes trust. Taking God's Word over us by faith.

But the Pentecostal charismatic technique of revving ourselves up enough in the Presence of God in a meeting, or "our quiet" time, and then, quickly as possible getting into a task before the Presence of God dissipates...is NOT TRUST.
And It's NO WAY TO LIVE.
And it actually blocks the people of God from ever moving into chapters 15-17 of St John's gospel as a reality.  In short. Galations calls that state being bewitched, because we are relying on things other than God to do that which only He does within us.