Israel And Gaza

A Woman Clothed with the Sun - Oliver Bob Lagumen

Oliver Bob Reyes Lagumen Facebook   (You can read Oliver Bob's earlier experience here)
Time check is 6:24 A.M. but at dawn today the Lord woke me up with a message. And the message is Revelation 12. He reminded me how that in my ASCENSION EXPERIENCE, i was one with the power of the Sun, I went to pray where I was laying down and finally went out of the house.
Before I went out the house, I was just meditating in my bed and he revealed to me everything that I needed to know at the time. He verified that in this experience, how that I was indeed one with the power of the Sun and the glory of the universe.
Now, this is what the Father has unveiled: Logos-consciousness has revealed to me that the book of Revelation is the book of identification. Indeed it is the book of manifestation, because it is the book of identification. The Spirit of The Word revealed to me that anyone who DO NOT WISH TO IDENTIFY himself with "THE WOMAN CLOTHED WITH THE SUN", can not be identified with THE MANCHILD ON THE THRONE!
Anyone who will not be identified with the weakness of that woman, can not be identified with her strength. Anyone who refuses her Son, the Sun of righteousness, can not be identified with the Healing in her wings, and anyone who will not embrace her as God's wife, can not be identified with the Holy City (her children).
The mind of God revealed to me that she is the MOTHER LOGOS, the soul of creation, even the mother of creation! She is your soul restored into glory. She is you. When God made man in his image after his likeness, she consulted her within himself and man came into being, in fact none in creation came out into existence without being begotten from within her womb!
I have experienced all of her wonders in my ASCENSION EXPERIENCE and behold she is coming down out of heaven from God and from the throne of Godship to INHABIT THE NEIGHBORHOOD in the glory of the Father!
So now, I am seeing myself in THE WHOLE EXPERIENCE OF REVELATION 12!
Time-check is 6:50 A.M.
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Chris Welch Now you understand why the devil wanted to rip that little Thread of ours apart, for without this firm belief and understanding we bring forth the wind. Instead the devil like a serpent waits anxiously at the birthplace to chase after the Manchild. He waited anxiously trying to kill Moses the first Deliverer. And all those babies died.
He waited upon the birth of the True Deliverer Jesus and tried to slaughter Him too. And all those babies in Ramah made it a place of weeping. And in every country on earth he is doing his best to kill babies in abortion and reduce the population lest we ever be strong numerically and spiritually and finish the job that was lacking in the afflictions of Christ and dispatch him off the face of the earth.



Chris Welch continues
The writing that OLB has just posted is SO KEY. It is our distinctive. Maybe some of you haven't got to this point. Well we are not saying these things to be special, we are saying these things to define where the power of our believing needs to be.
You can be a Union believer, believing in the Exchanged Life at the Cross, but there is something more here. This is how St Paul expressed it, and it is the distinct message that Daniel Yordy, now Oliver Bob Reyes Lagumen , Annalize Mouton, myself, Rich Novek and many others now believe. "so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places".
Many believe the word of Paul here but they don't believe the specificity of either our exchanged life, that is Christ our only Life, nor that there could ever be a church who lived that out corporately. Revelation 12 says quite clearly it is so. She is like the SUN because such a community now has Christ Consciousness by virtue of the Cross in HER SOUL. We are nolonger like the moon "reflecting the light of the sun", we are the Son in the Earth. "As He is so are we in the Earth."
We nolonger live in separation,ln a Genesis 3 world believing we have a separate life. No such separate life ever existed....truly it was always satan's own empowering in such a masquerading daily form none of us noticed...but it affected in some way everything we felt, everything we thought, how we acted and how we spoke!!!! So not much then?LOL
But this Revelation 12 SUN is not me. Is not you. It's US. It's a New thing in the Earth. It's a woman covering/ giving birth to a MANCHILD. This dual REALITY is the CHURCH in the earth.
Now some LOCAL PRACTICS.....that need to be spoken.
IN 1976 in a cowshed in the Dales, outside Harrogate a people specified before God that they were this MARY....THIS SUN...THIS WOMAN...and solemnly before God and the particular called apostle of God, Ern Baxter....that we may, like Mary not understand it, but we said yes to the Holy Spirit....BE IT UNTO ME ACCORDING TO YOUR WORD. And on that pure foundation many hundreds of fellowships and churches spawned. LOCALLY....we have two such churches.
The Apostle Jorge Pradas spoke the same "specificity" over a charismatic prayer meeting and said...What are you? A Fellowship or the Church of the Living God.
A fellowship can mean anything. Take it or leave it. You can be adulterous. In, out, like some kind of bigamous marriage....OR you can be the CHURCH of the Living God. The sad thing about Emsworth Church is they NEVER had defined teaching on WHO THEY WERE as individuals. And eventually, a bit like the church of Galatians they became more and more nebulous in the specificity of their believing, and then renamed themselves NEW LIFE CHRISTIAN CHURCH, but not necessarily continuing in their inner believing as to what their identity was.
I then attended Havant Church for 12 years, but they too would not be pegged down according to who the Bible says they are.
Without BOTH specificities of believing Revelation CANNOT OCCUR. We give birth to the wind. Our sons and daughters leave. Like Israel we become just an empty shell, infrastructure and a name, but not having the POWER TO BRING FORTH.
Here is the magic that St Paul found.
A People who believe in their new identity in Christ.
A People who believe in their NEW IDENTITY...not as a human club...But the Revelation 12 Vison of the Church....the new thing...the woman covering a man or manchild....HAS the ability within Herself to bring Jesus forth. However i looks to the natural eyes. Jesus being born out the backside of a very busy inn, in a stable, in a cow trough didn't look any more promising than today's church of active believing saints....being born here and now on Facebook of all places and many other weird places on earth. (One such recent birthplace was a mafia style controller of pimps and prostitutes in Reykjavik Iceland suddenly waking for nights afraid for his own soul and then a church formed round him).....
The other things aren't really churches....they may even be baptised in the Spirit...but they are not believing what the Bible says about them, nor believing what the Bible is saying about how a true church functions....so they reap the wind. They may sell Cds, Conferences, may have healings like Aladdin rubbing their lamps, but they don't have SUN consciousness, they still have moon separation consciousness, and anyone living with them can see it. So they reap the wind. Their children leave them "for other nations".

The Birth of the new Church

Facebook toing and froing yesterday
Chris Welch
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UK pastor/apostle - How're you right now doing church, Chris ?· Like
Chris Welch Failing on every level of your score sheet...just like Jesus at the cross
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Chris Welch As I said...now is exactly like it was in 1973- 4 in Amersham when my Dad was asking me the same question.
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Chris Welch Although it seems weird talking like this...anybody remember 1975 and 6? The Kansas City Shepherd's Conference, the Lakes and the Dales Bible Weeks...and the angels? And the reports of angels in the Yorkshire Press? I tell you I don't mind failing at all!!!! LOL

I was recalling 1973 and 4. Marcus Roberts had had a significant encounter with USA Christians from Gene Edwards' Galeta fellowship.  I think he met some in Falmer University Brighton, then he exhuberantly shared some of Watchman Nee's material with us.  I have shared the effect of Graham Pulkingham on Amersham Baptist Church in what was quite a wry encounter of two species.
Graham Pulkingham grabbed our attention because the Fisherfolk came almost direct from Houston to do a week at our school, Dr Challoner's Grammar School Amersham.
But also Graham's talk to the church really got our notice. It was the anointing with which he stated the Church is the Body of Christ.  It had the same cutting edge that Jesus did when He stated to Nazareth Synagogue: " Today is this scripture fulfilled in your midst."

 I have shared of the 1970s origins of the church Marcus and I eventually ended up in. Long before we arrived Jorge Pradas had challenged the charismatic prayer fellowship that met once a month in Emsworth: "Are you a fellowship or are you the Church?"

It's specificity of believing.

So yesterday I was recalling the same kind of lull that we are in now, but 40 years ago. Then it seemed things changed like a whirlwind two years later. The Dales Bible Week pinned some of us
to the wall. It was in a cow's shed in Harrogate Showground The irony wasn't lost on us as Ern Baxter led several thousand of us in the prayer of Mary....Lord I don't understand but be it unto me according to your Word.

Now we can articulate what we were doing.
It was specificity.
It was believing in our heart and confssing with our mouth that Jesus Christ, the same awesome Jesus Christ was being born in us. We were believing ON HIS LIFE.

In genesis 3 Adam believed OFF his life in a titanic act that still affects us.
He began believing in the lie of the independent self.

By being specific and nailing our colours...we are in fact reversing history,
History is being reversed on the fulcrum of the New Creation in Christ.

Therefore if any man is in Christ he is become a new creation, the old has passed away and the new has come. Our active believing on everything Christ did IS THE VICTORY THAT OVERCOMES THE WORLD.
If we become passive, if we like Peter on the waves, start to consider for a moment what on earth am I doing?  we will sink. This is not the victory.

THIS IS THE VICTORY even our faith. But we can pray, Lord help my unbelief.

Adam and Eve's little movement of reaching for fruit was VAST.
The Jesus Move taking their first corporate steps to nail their specificity to the mast was VAST.


And this is our believing.
STILL.
And now more defined through Norman Grubb after the book Yes I am.

I am Jesus Christ in his Chris Welch vinebranch form going on.
I don't build stone churches.
I don't seek to continue any tradition of man
I don't owe any man that task.
I am a free man in Christ.
But it IS the faith of Jesus Christ operating in me.

And now, as we have received the eyesalve of Revelation
we see God as the source of the ONLY LIFE in the Universe.
We can perceive a corporate derived life....since the devil
himself lives by God's life as well, but has twisted it in on itself
as a self for self life....so yes we see a derived life....

but now we keep our single eye open for what God is doing
with me, with everyone.
Willing and working for His good pleasure.

This is the New church.
Life itself.

We are not building oldstyle churches, oldstyle meetings.
We are telling you how you can live God's Life, the only real life
today in you. Sure we will gather as we eventually did in great numbers
40 years ago.....and when we gather it will be more specific than at any time since Adam. For now we are at last grasping what gathering in His Name means.

(Original Facebook post)

It took three whole generations for God to get His package of stuff into Abraham Isaac and Jacob and then this was rolled out into a "Family" Nation. But this in itself was still quite an outer form of what He was going for.
As I wrote this morning, on a huge scale, the Jews were used to bring in the Outer Court ministry. That God existed. That God wanted to bless and heal. That God was Father and wanted a relationship with a people. But it was Jesus whose job it was to introduce the next big stage. As we can see in history the last 2000 years has been a very mixed affair. Church has been incredibly like the Jews knowledge of God, with people more caught up with Law than relationship.

God is continually replanting and pruning His work. One way to think of Church history is as a "transition" between Law and Spirit. it began free , but even in Acts we can see seeds of religion wanting to take the church captive. The church itself has gone into the ground and died.....the first fruits of resurrection have happened with Luther's rediscovery of salvation by faith....and gradually more and more has been restored. Having done Holy Place Christianity for 100 years God is taking the whole of His church into the most radical transition yet. We enter individually into a crisis that is like Romans 7 crashing in on us. Everything that we knew, thought, felt we owned is going up in smoke in an experience of the altar of incense.
If you like the forerunners were the 12 apostles who had to learn they couldn't do Christianity. It's a horrible time for our flesh, but we start to get our new identity.
Now if we thought charismatic churches were an improvement on evangelical churches....well that's nothing to the difference between what's coming now.
I went through this type of transition 40 years ago in Amersham. We knew we had more light, but everywhere was just denominational churches. So we withdrew for a few years refusing to play the Christian game and sure enough the Spirit sent in amazing men , mainly from America, who raised up the last generation of churches.
These are now wearing thin, and the Spirit is currently brooding to bring forth something completely new. Probably like Jesus and the disciples, it won't even look like church...it'll be more like living together.

Facebook or No Facebook

Half-built Tower

I am grateful for the exposure that both blogging and Facebook have given me. The process began with the writer of the next blogpost in 2008, when I used to comment along with other , now facebook friends, in his comments section.

In 5 short years I have brushed up against all sorts of folk from all areas of Christendom which has given me tremendous pastoral insight, usually aquired painfully over decades, of the sort of differing trends of belief that are at large currently all over the earth. Obviously some of these differences are taught with posh sounding names in seminaries, but nothing can really compare with talking with those who hold these many strands of believing.

At least some of St Paul's missions experience was speaking in a teaching forum for 18months or so, and for me this has been very similar. The advantage of  Facebook has been to get down to some of these brass tacks of inner believing, whereas you would have to be going some in the real world where most people are far more coy in opening up about such deeply held things.

Now recently several people who I have been walking closely (continual exchanges) or at a distance (infrequent exchanges) with, have simply upped, turned their heel and in the worst cases completely defriended me. Humanly some things have been my own foolishness, and other things have occurred through  me holding truths I believe are unpopular. They may only turn out to be "shades of truth"...that is true to a certain limited extent only....but sometimes these things have to be said in order that later they don't prove to be wholly true, and by then it is often too late.

REAL WORLD EXAMPLE in the last few weeks
I have been working alongside and under a South African who started to have unpleasant brushes with other colleagues. I was alerted to this some 6 weeks before things came to a very unpleasant head, which resulted in his sacking. I wanted to alert someone high up to avert this disaster, both for colleagues, but also the man's sake....I had started sharing about this very blog with him and his wife. My lowly position with this firm means there was no real outlet for me to act on my insight. Then the inevitable occurred and it was far worse than it should have been.

I don't believe I am always right. I don't believe I am always wholly right....but picking up directions that we could be heading in. I believe "directions" can be headed off at the pass if flagged up soon enough.

Really from the moment that Living Word issues forth a clock starts ticking in the earth.

I could also still have real problems in "how I share", coming from previous deepseated hurts that still have to properly come under the blood of Christ. But I feel, like Paul, when he moved on from forum teaching, and also coming to an end of patience with sharing with his own people the Jews, giving himself to Gentiles....that a fresh direction has now come for me. I absolutely have no clue whether leaving Facebook is permanent, but certainly I do find FACEBOOK and social media...in fact...let's go further and state books as well, as something of a NEW CART....(reference King David arranging a New Cart to carry the Ark of God's Presence in 2 Samuel 6, 1 Chronicles 13,).

There are those who are READY for the teaching of God. John 7: 17 If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself. 
The teaching comes when the pupil is ready (Buddhist precept). A person has cried out in his heart to know some truth, and God hears and supplies....by any of the above means...blog/social networking/reading in a magazine or book....

But really WORD comes in a covenantal context. You see WORD pins you down covenantally. If you HEAR properly you are saying AMEN...be it unto me according to your Word. Bind the festal sacrifice to the altar.... ME.....and you Holy Spirit fulfil that in me.

Really from the moment that Living Word issues forth a clock starts ticking in the earth.
You either HEAR and accept....what begins as sweet to taste in the mouth, like honey.....but then is exceedingly bitter in your stomach as the Holy Spirit WORKS that transformation on your insides...piercing to the division of soul and spirit (Hebrews 4)

OR you don't carry it through
and you become yet another LIAR in the earth
one who declares God to be a liar, by half building a tower only.

Our experience so far, which I was convinced was the beginning of a new thirdlevel church in the earth, a new pattern, has indeed turned out to be a NEW CART stumbling at the first bump. It is not the proper Covenantal framework by which the Word can be brought forth.

That one Divinely recognised form, outside of the usual vicissitudes of life, which is also a womb for the Word....see some of the negatives listed in Matthew5....is the CHURCH. Expressed in the local Body of Christ. The Woman that encompasses the Manchild in Revelation 12.

The LOCAL church has to be specifically Christ in us the hope of Glory...Galations 2:20 It is nolonger I who live but Christ.....we are new creations entirely by virtue of Christ's work

But I realise now Jorge Pradas's word to our little church at Emsworth holds true...
WE have to specifically BELIEVE and confess to (by faith) that we are the CHURCH...a building not made with hands, coming down from God in heaven.

It has been painful to realise that while grace opens up the doors to all the victories of Christ, it is the same grace that unpacks salvation in its true corporate context, only as believers are as specific in their believing that they are the Church.
The Congregation that will prevail against the Gates of Hell IN THIS AGE. This is the Rock of confession upon which the Church is built.

The Covenantal Church is a church that is made of individuals who are open and laid bare before one another....but this only works in the Living Presence and sustaining power of God as Father, God as Son, and God by His Spirit amongst us.

OR you don't carry it through
and you become yet another LIAR in the earth
one who declares God to be a liar, by half building a tower only.

This is church as in
where the dead body is there the carrion gather...there the overcomers rise or are birthed
This  is church as embodied in the Cutting of Covenant together in Genesis 15.

How will you know that you will POSSESS the promises of God?
Because He will write them in Covenant across your body by the Spirit.
Firstly in baptism in water and the Spirit.
But also baptising you (again by His Spirit...you can't do this)...into His people of faith as under the Cloud of His Presence.
Notice Abraham had to drive away the carrion...signifying Jesus later words, that such a body would draw those interested by instinct...because they want to come...because they voluntarily are drawn as it says in Psalm 110.
But then such open carcasses have the Shekinah Burning Pot of the Fire of God pass right through their midst. Every church gathering should be covenantal....should experience this nature of deep presence of the Living Lord.

This is CHURCH and BODY and CLOUD as I know it, and became first aquainted with in the Billy Graham films, then as we were baptised in the Spirit in Great Kingshill...

this is what I have found so hard to articulate here on Facebook in a rather mixed, fuzzy setting.

THESE are the people I am now seeking the world over and locally, and who I want to spend my  time here on earth with. If you are such a person, be aware that it is as far from the word NICE as you can get....but as near to the LIVING PRESENCE of the LORD as you can experience now this side of heaven.

GLORY is not nice...but it is GLORIOUS, TRUE,HOLY, and bathed in COVENANTAL LOVE.

These blogposts are published automatically using NETWORKED BLOGS to my former Facebook Timeline which has not been erased in case any of you want to delve into some of the upbuilding material .
I myself at present cannot be communicated with via Facebook but my email address is still

07000intune@googlemail.com.

Chris Welch... author of this blog and this current post.

Apostle-ibly?

Norman Grubb made it clear that apostles were just "father level" ministries.Apostles are not church builders as is meant commonly here and in America. We use the term to mean people who can establish structured churches, installing a CEO pastor as head submitting to a "man's apostleship".
Real apostles just reproduce Christ in other believers. Such that they believe and walk in the knowledge that they are Christ as them.
When real apostles establish churches, they "pin" people down in the Spirit to believing that their local church is The Church in that locality, as per Watchman Nee. You can have many local churches in the same area....but ofcourse they will have a different location or street. Their function or calling will be designated by God in every case....but nevertheless they are the Church.

The walk of faith is
- "pinned down"
- is specific.
-Is the Kingdom of heaven fixed covenantally, tethered covenantally to the Earth in the hearts of believers.

Right now, we are Christ going on as individuals.
Right now we are the only one Church going on as a group of believers.

This specificity marked the callings and ministries of Ern Baxter, Ed Miller,and Jorge Pradas.
It is debatable whether the more general leadership in this country is tied down enough in their specificity.

Remember...faith is specific. It is believing the precise thing God says about us. Muzziness
does not work. It's the difference between Portmouth UK mooting the eventual possibility of a monorail round the bay....
and John F Kennedy saying "In 10 years we will have someone on the moon!" Only one of these has taken place!
Dan Bowen was decrying the passing of various "apostolic" leaders from the 70s, wondering who was going to take their place. Somewhat stirred I wrote this in his comment section.

You and I believe totally different about this. You are still at home in teaching houses that call themselves churches. So by that criteria Tony Morton Bryn Jones and Terry Virgo are apostles.

The revelation handed down to us in the scriptures is all we have. So we can only go on what is there and what isn't there.

By virtue of his authority people like St Paul DID DO long teaching sessions to which everyone listened. We know that because someone fell out of the window and had to be brought back to life.

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INSERT

My first ever post up on Dan's...or anyone's blog- click on The Knowledge London taxi pic above and scroll right down to the middle of the comments section to see the original

Chris said...
A safer view of ministries has been stated by Ed Miller who helped father the 50s Argentine breakthrough, and various subsequent moves. He talks of them as taxi drivers.Taxi drivers to the throne of God. Once they have done their task, they actually have less relevance. The end goal of ministry being to reproduce Christ in others.
03 February, 2008 10:18

Dan Bowen said...
Thanks Chris that is a really helpful view of ministries that I haven't really considered before. "Taxi drivers" to the throne. I like it. Lots. The suggestion then (although you didn't say it) is that it is healthy and fitting for ministries once they have completed their God-given task to step aside and fade into other duties, maybe not so prominent. And then as you say - allow other ministries to step forward and continue leading.

It is an incredibly wise and experienced and brave man I think who can walk in intimacy with God so much that he knows when he has had his time in the limelight and it is now time to walk with God behind the scenes. Such is the "heady wine" of conference platforms and prominence.

Maybe if more ministries could grasp that concept then spiritual casualties would be less.

04 February, 2008 00:47

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

So I am not saying that what Bryn,Terry and Tony did is not a part of it. But it is essential that you get around some third levellers, more like Ern himself. because at the moment you describe all these figures as if they are in some way equal. They are not at all equal. You cannot put these three in the same category at all.
All three are more like superwarmed up Baptist preachers and teachers with a human capacity for organising structures like administrators.

An apostle is something in the spirit or nothing at all. He leaves behind him a trail of
self-standing people who themselves reproduce the same Word that they have eaten

I'm sorry, but this is NOT true of Terry, Bryn and Tony.

As a first generation thing of people finding their way in the religious darkness left in its wake by nearly apostate churches throughout Britain, God has honoured them and continues to honour their advances.

But unlike Ern, who himself only skirted around the edges of what his private secretary George Warnock had to share with him about Galations 2:20, Bryn ,Terry and Tony only shared about the early principles of moving in the Spirit.

They have no real clue about the last session Jesus had with the disciples in John13-17.The clearer you see it in the Spirit, the clearer you will understand what has been going on in Britain, and the very real and rebellious cut off that occurred in 1979-80 when Jesus specifically brought in many thirdlevellers to share,
but it was a Kadesh Barnea moment.
At that point The UK closed its heart and became a "closed" wilderness zone...basically frozen in its level of doctrine until things started opening again, interestingly enough, roughly when you made the decision to start your blog.

While i greatly benefit from men of the calibre of Greg Haslam who came here 2 weeks ago, I can tell you really clearly Greg has no clue yet as to the existence of a third level, still preaching as they all do,
adding to your salvation with various activities that are going to make God like you more.

Terry says some great things about grace as you know....but like Greg
that's the edge of what he knows.

Whenever you talk of maturity and authority it seems to be in terms of either the amount of people that fall down at once, or to a human authority thing born of many years study. Well John Stott has tremendous intellectual clarity and authority in his studies, but where was he during the Bible Weeks?
There is only one Melchizedek order which people choose inside of themselves to be a part of or not. This is a unique form of authority which opens and closes doors in the earth. It has nothing to do with tickling the ears of Dan Bowen with yet another insight into the New Testament so he can share it on his blog.

(If you think this is unusually abrupt- I am getting the same treatment from thirdlevellers...if that means anything) End of comment.
********************
The truth is there are a whole host of third levellers or apostles stacked up ready right now!
You laugh.
They were there in the 40s and 50s. They were there in the 70s and 80s.
And they are there in the wings right now. Like Jesus. Knocking at your door. Patiently. It is you Church that are refusing them entrance. Because of the cost!

John 7.19If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God.... The first step is always being willing.....then the teacher appears!!!!