Today I had a further revelation about my life. There are stamps upon every single life. Core reflections of their being, their purpose, their innate character. These are mirrored in external events that keep repeating. After a while we don't fight, we just understand when we see these repeated traits. I say this to make it absolutely clear that what is true for me, will be different but equally unique in your life. My friend Elaine Waterfield keeps seeing rainbows....more than average....and birds of paradise.
I have mentioned before that my style is to take a long time, then shoot ahead.
I didn't walk, but sat, then crawled for 1 1/2 years. Then, in an airport lounge stood up suddenly and ran. I never walked.
In 12 years of methodism plus one year outside Christianity, I was never a Christian. I was never born again. (In my intellectual brain I may have reasoned I was, but this was not true)When I got born again at 13, like so many of our generation I was baptised in the Spirit more or less immediately.
When I was baptised in the Spirit, everyone surrounding me in the upper room rattled off in tongues immediately. probably, because of left-brain constipation...or intellectual analysis of everything I did not for one month....but THAT day eventually I was given the key of faith.They said you have asked, now believe that you HAVE received and start thanking God.Almost immediately the release of the Spirit came. But straight after I was given a faith step of obedience that "seemed " totally out of control. In the rather quiet middle class suburban estate of Great Kingshill ,Bucks God spoke so clearly...because He knew it was so key for my life.He said "Shout hallelujah at the TOP of your voice...the loudest possible" A second wave of God's fire came crashing on me. Like a Toronto anointing 22 years early, I was almost paralysedly drunk.They had to support me down the stairs. With this fire, I set off a small revival in our school by preaching in class and school assembly. Out of 120 boys in our year, one summer's lunchtime I counted 80 of these boys out on the grass...not playing football...but in a school with strong 1970s atheistic leanings.....studying the Bible together. It was crazy.
There is a spiritual pattern here that continues in meetings today.But it happens naturally also.
When my voice broke it took ages, but when it did I dropped 2 octaves overnight and my mum didn't know who was in the house.
In "church " settings I was never asked to preach. Apart from one occasion in France, the first time I was asked to preach was 13 years later by the President of Kenya during a stay with my science teacher parents on one of his schools.
I never married until I was 40. The lady I married had three daughters. The two eldest had children pretty soon afterwards. So I became a Dad to my own son and a kind of grandad to the others....all at once.
Are you getting the picture? Unlike your gorgeous looking Darin Hufford's and Joseph Prince's I have never been invited to lead a group in an organised church setting. The first thing people on here assume is that Daniel Yordy, Rich Novek and I are pastors. Nobody will touch us with a bargepole. But true to form in my case...I am not becoming a pastor....God is instead confirming an apostolic calling through this Two Goats Word. It is an apostolic Key for the church everywhere. It is not a theory or an idea. It is written with God's pen on my insides and similar things are on my net friend's insides. Outside the circus of 1st and 2nd level organised church, I have been a pastor for years....of ones and twos, and at Exeter University (1977-8)a leader of an entire group of us. My present and only wife was one of those. I chuck that in , just to say God has given me some experience. I see ministry like Paul. It is our ability to reproduce Jesus in other people. By ability I mean the Spirit has fully birthed this Jesus capacity in us to reproduce after "His own kind". I look at most pastors and see the limited capacities that Christine and I both had when we were 13.....that is when we brought people to the Cross and afterwards they were baptised in the Spirit. After that, like most pastors we hadn't the foggiest, but just believed God would help us grow people. With next to no firm blueprint in ourselves, it was ofcourse daft to think we knew what we were doing. This is where most of the church world finds itself as it jumps on the latest "organisational growth fads".
The thing I saw today was this. When I was born in Ghana, I took in food, but I had a blocked stomach (pyloric stenosis). After 2 weeks I weighed less than when born. My mum was desperate. She made some sort of bargain about my life with God. I was flown back to Great Ormonds Street and they saved my life.
Now , all over the world, the church has preached a "one goat" message of forgiveness. We eat the "food" of salvation, but it is never digested properly. There is a blockage. People are even baptised in the Spirit with mighty giftings....but because the 2nd goat, the scapegoat foundation was never laid in the Spirit, we have a lot of ministry "goats" racing around reproducing goat like rebelliousness, pyramids,greed,avarice, dirtiness in the Name of Christ. But ofcourse it is NOT in the NAME of Christ and it confuses the whole world. The Word needs properly to be eaten. "Unless you eat my flesh and drink My Blood you have not life in yourselves." In revelation it talks of the Word being sweet to the taste, but in our stomachs it becomes bitter....as it processes to BECOME US.
Here is a related piece by Rich Novek , then below that comments between me and Rosie Crawford after she was liberated by this 2 goats Word .
Dying to "SELF?"
by Rich Novek on Sunday, 07 November 2010 at 14:38
Chris Welch just wrote an article titled “TWO GOATS: Period.”
In his article Chris expounds on the fact that we have literally left out 50% of the gospel message! The one goat for the sacrifice of sins, but what about the other goat?
“When WAS the last sermon you heard on the 2 GOATS? So what I'm saying is…one was to take sins away, and one was to take SIN away.
“WE HAVE ALL BOUGHT ENTRANCE TO A CHRISTIANITY THAT ONLY HAS ONE GOAT.”
And the crazy thing, we were all let in!!!!!!!” (Chris Welch)
I love Chris! He has a way of showing us the REALITY of what is, by taking us back to the original temple, sacrifices, etc. He then adds to his biblical knowledge, the different things he has himself learned and experienced, in gatherings and movements over the course of His Life!
Evalee Bird just tagged me on her latest note: “Faith in the work of God.” In her note she explains the fact it is not in our believing, but it is HIS FATH ALONE which saves and keeps us!
The Spirit is always revealing, which is why we call it revelation! The book, by the way is Revelation, not Revelations! Revelations is plural and implies more than one! GOD IS ONE! And there has ONLY been ONE REVELATION! The revelation of the sacrificial Lamb for all mankind! The supreme efficacy of the blood which has cleansed us from every sin! Because of His Blood we have a bold entry way into His presence, and without any condemnation!
But the blood, as wonderful as it is, still leaves us…ONE GOAT SHORT!
"My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water.” (Jeremiah 2:13)
“For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the POWER OF GOD.” (I Corinthians 1:18)
If you have never read anything by Watchman Nee you need to read his wonderful exposition on Romans 6-8, The Normal Christian Life! And he is right, not only because he shows us the importance of how the blood has cleansed us from our sins, but just as important, he is careful not to leave out the other half of the GOOD NEWS! Our deliverance from SIN! The man of lawlessness who formerly occupied the place where Now ONLY the Spirit lives in His fullness “IN” US!
They have forsaken ME! They have not forsaken the bible, or bible studies, or programs, or the spiritual gifts, they have just left me out of ALL OF IT! And in place of me they have made for themselves cisterns, and these cisterns are broken and hold nothing but vanity, they have no REAL value! They are empty!
For the WORD OF THE CROSS is foolishness?
“In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD WAS GOD! He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made. “IN” Him was Life, and that Life was the light of all mankind. His light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.” (John 1:1-5)
What was God? Does it say the WORD WAS GOD? Read on…….
“The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the WORLD DID NOT RECOGNIZE HIM. He came to that which WAS HIS OWN, BUT…HIS OWN DID NOT RECIEVE HIM! Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born NOT BORN OF NATURAL descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but BORN OF GOD! (John 1:9-13)
The Word BECAME FLESH…and made his dwelling among us. We have seen HIS glory, the glory of the ONE AND ONLY SON, WHO CAME FROM THE FATHER…FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.” (John 1:14)
Contrary to what most believe, the WORD IS NOT THE BIBLE! The Bible is God’s chosen tool to bring us the REVELATION OF THE WORD……..THE ONLY WORD…The LIVING Word who became Flesh and dwelt among us! The Word in who’s glory we beheld! His name is Jesus Christ!
The people of God today are so busy trying to have a relationship with the “letter that kills”, that they have forsaken the TRUE WORD! THE ONLY LIVING WORD!
The church today has become the “foolishness” mentioned in the above passage in I Corinthians! Why? Because they have idolized the book while discounting the Person of the book! Without the preaching of the Cross there is no LIFE! There is NO POWER! The preaching of the Cross opens up the opportunity to move beyond this kingdom of darkness, this land of appearances! The preaching of the Cross IS THE ONLY POWER OF GOD! But instead, they have made cisterns, cisterns which hold no water! Why is that? Why don’t they hold water? Could it be because they have forsaken the FOUNTAIN OF LIVING WATER, WHO IS THE PERSON OF JESUS CHRIST! And have exchanged Him…for it!
The preaching of the Bible, the spiritual gifts, or how to better mange your money doesn’t cost anything, but just start preaching the Cross, and more than that, preach ONLY the Cross!
Because when and if you do you there is one guarantee! That is… God will turn upside down and inside out everything you previously called your life or have put your trust in! Begin preaching “To Live is Christ and to die is gain”, or “For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.”
If you want ALL HE IS He will demand ALL YOU ARE!
It is an impossibility to preach the cross without the cross bringing everything you trust in to the same cross you are preaching! It’s much easier and acceptable to preach about God than it is to allow Him to make us fit for the Master’s use! Because when and if you decide to get serious about your Christianity, you will find God will require ONLY ONE THING! Every-thing! Until all that’s left is HIM! It’s a lot simpler to adhere to the world and the way it operates, and through ignorance, make yourself an enemy of the cross, than it is to embrace the cross!
The only thing we really hear from the church concerning the cross is when people start talking about dying to themselves! This in itself is absolutely impossible! I can’t die to myself anymore than Jesus could crucify Himself! I AM DEAD! This is the second goat! For YOU HAVE DIED and your life is hidden with Christ “IN” God!
DYING TO SELF?
The only thing we really hear from the church concerning the cross is when people start talking about dying to themselves! This in itself is absolutely impossible! I can’t die to myself anymore than Jesus could crucify Himself! I AM DEAD! This is the second goat! For YOU HAVE DIED and your life is hidden with Christ “IN” God!
How then does one know when he has truly DIED TO SELF?
“It's easy to think of dying to self in terms of what we do or don't do. Since childhood, we've been taught to focus on our actions. We gained our parent's approval if we behaved a certain way. As adults, we have success in life if we perform in a certain manner.
When it comes to spiritual performance, however, no matter how hard we try, no matter how long we go at it, we are never quite satisfied with our efforts. There's always one more thing that needs to be taken care of. It becomes an endless struggle to do and to become.
Thankfully, as believers, dying to self is not something we have to attain to. We died to self on the cross with Jesus Christ. ''You have died and your life is hid with Christ in God.'' It's something that has already happened. We express God's glorious self-for-others nature 24/7.” (Alex P. Cohen)
“Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For YOU HAVE DIED, and your life is now hidden with Christ “IN” God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.” (Colossians 3:1-4)
When He died, we died, and when He was buried, so were we! And when He was raised “IN” POWER, we were as well!
The preaching of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing! Paul is not talking to people who don’t already know God, he is in fact talking to the church! He is saying, “if you think for one minute you can accept the benefits of the shed blood without realizing it was that that same blood that purchased you, then you are a fool! And the fool has said in his heart, there is NO GOD!
The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. (Psalm 53:1)
In our seeing ourselves “IN” Christ, we are able to SEE this UNSEEN KINGDOM! Until we SEE our death, burial, and resurrection “IN” Him, we have no choice but to settle for the status quo of what is considered Normal Christianity! And Normal Christianity today is a far cry from what Watchman Nee wrote about in his book! Normal Christianity today is a focus on externals, and a consciousness of “Jesus for me!” This view of Christianity is what Norman Grubb calls “infant Christianity!”
Paul talks about it in Hebrews;
“In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the ELEMENTARY truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!” (Hebrews 5:12)
Paul is saying, “Hey guys, by now you should be completing your Masters degree, but you are still stuck in elementary school! It’s time to grow up, move beyond the milk of seeing ONLY religious externals, and eat of His body and drink of His Blood!”
So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, YOU HAVE NO LIFE “IN” YOU. (John 6:53)
There might be an appearance of life, but it cannot be TRUE LIFE without the ONLY ONE who is Life, living and moving and having His being “IN” US! (Acts 17:28)
Jesus Christ died for us, but we died “IN” Him! Now we are the vessels or conduits of His life! It is impossible to continue to serve the “elementary version” of Christ, while serving and SEEING GOD ONLY!
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, who loved me, and gave himself for me. (Galatians 2:20)
I said earlier you cannot serve two different versions of Christ! Well, in the exact same way you cannot serve and worship two versions of faith!
The ONLY faith God SEES IS THE FAITH “OF” HIS SON! We have no faith, we will never have any faith, and we were never meant to have our own faith!
In embracing the Cross, we allow God to bring to death everything we are trusting in! He takes all that that we thought we had faith in and shows us we have no faith! It is in this process of Him bringing us to the end of our resources we realize the ONLY ONE WHO CAN LIVE THE CHRISTIAN LIFE IS CHRIST HIMSELF! We also learn that we were created to house or contain God and that is all!
Paul learned this secret;
“I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.” (Philippians 4:12)
Paul learned through all of his doing…and Paul was the ultimate do-er, the ONLY TRUE do-er was the Holy Spirit! He learned through the foolishness of the cross that when he was weak, the Spirit “IN” Him was his ONLY strength! He learned of the mystery, hidden for ages and past generations, which IS CHRIST “IN” YOU!
“I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the WORD OF GOD IN ITS FULLNESS— the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but…IS NOW DISCLOSED to the Lord’s people. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is CHRIST “IN” YOU, the hope of glory. (Colossians 1:25-27)
Paul refused to believe in a Cross-less Christianity! He said it was a FULL GOSPEL! Through this FULL GOSPEL message Paul learned of a God he had never known, even though he was an expert in the law!
It is no different today! There are still way too many Saul’s out there walking around, who believe they are preaching LIFE AND TRUTH! But like Paul, they need to knocked to the ground…in order to see their own spiritual blindness! I know I had to be!
Thank God for men and women like Chris, Evalee, and others like them who have seen Christ and Him ONLY as their ONLY LIFE!
Thank God for the complete message! The message which provides the sufficiency of the blood, while revealing to us the supremacy of the Cross!
"Of him are ye in Christ Jesus." The Lord God Himself has put us “IN” Christ, and in His dealing with Christ God has dealt with the whole race. Our destiny is bound up with His. What He has gone through we have gone through, for to be ”IN” Christ is to have been identified with Him in both His death and resurrection. He was crucified: then what about us? Must we ask God to crucify us? Never! When Christ was crucified we were crucified; and His crucifixion is past, therefore ours cannot be future. I challenge you to find one text in the New Testament telling us that our crucifixion is in the future. All the references to it are in the Greek aorist, which is the `once-for-all' tense, the `eternally past' tense. (See: Romans 6:6; Galations 2:20; 5:24; 6:14). And just as no man could ever commit suicide by crucifixion, for it were a physical impossibility to do so, so also, in spiritual terms, God does not require us to crucify ourselves. We were crucified when He was crucified, for God put us there “IN” Him. That we have died “IN” Christ is not merely a doctrinal position, it is an ETERNAL FACT! (Watchman Nee, The Normal Christian Life)
http://dubroom.org/download/pdf/ebooks/watchman_nee_-_the_normal_christian_life.pdf
Chris Welch to Rich's note
I don't know if any of you caught what just happened this week.
If you can imagine the book of Nehemiah when as they were rebuilding Jerusalem the challenge of legitimacy went against them. The building work stopped.
For 20-40 years it has been known by individuals who have crashed and burned themselves that the Christ as us message was the next Spirit foundation to be laid in the wider church. But the cry of legitimacy has been raised against Gods builders and nothing has really happened that has advanced the people of God apart from numerically the world over since the step changes of the 60s and 70s.
The 2 goats key is the legitimacy we now have to say to a Church that is now so bad that thousands are leaving each week in something like the Free Believers Network
Style," this is what is wrong with your gospel! One of your goats is still running free and running our churches! I come in the Name of Jesus and lay the missing foundation that Watchman Nee knew something of through Jessie Penn Lewis,but was further clarified through Norman Grubb who himself "caught it" from Penn Lewis.
So rather like the Israelites 11 days in the Wilderness becoming a rather terminal 40 years, had Penn Lewis and Evan Roberts ever been allowed back into the Welsh Revival with the updated properly accurate 2 goats gospel we'd have been 100 years further on and Darin Hufford would have been less upset. Brethren this is huge!
07 November at 09:13 via Facebook Mobile · Like · 1 person
Rosie Crawford 06 November at 06:48 Report
appreciate what you said re scapegoat and will look at blog re the details you mentioned - but what i really mean is this:your exact wording at the retreat, just 1 sentence, was what exploded inside me with tears shooting as HEEEEEEEEEEEE in a split second showed me the document with His final STAMP of CANCELLATION TO DO WITH GREAT PAST DARKNESS in my past life.I saw HIS INSIGNIA IN THE SEALING WAX YOU SEE, MAKING AN END OF IT WITH TOTAL FINALITY. That's what I saw.All that had been RAGING against me for decades simply EVAPORATED [you know, no substance in darkness?]. And it happened as you opened your mouth . . .
Rosie Crawford 06 November at 07:00 Report
You see I was powerless when 'these things' happened. The pattern in the end was 3 months depression, three months reprival.then the reprival times got shorter and I speeded up my rebuke to myself that i now MUST get my bravery act together and end it NOW. thought of myriad ways - oh the nightmare of it to have your mind speculate and meditate on suicide - WHERE IS THE ABUNDANT LIFE i asked but long since i had seen of course that it wasnt Him not giving life. It was me in the grip of . . something so evil and determined to KILL ME.You do know what i'm talking about can i suppose?
So you must understand my GREAT AND ABSOLUTE FREEDOM now that i soar in His wonderful arms with His wonderful mind and in His absolute provision. I feel .. ITS TOO OVERWHELMING TO EVEN TRY TO FIND THE WORDS. i just loooooove every second of life, i sleep very few hours and His glorious love is in me and over me and through me. I did dream of this, that this could be life in the most ordinary looking way to others when they looked . . . i learned off by heart and did say to Him over the decades , this . . . Now thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ. He makes our lives a constant pageant, a brilliant spectacle . . and through us diffuses the fragrance of His Knowledge IN EVERY PLACE. i must sound I sound so dramatic - such a drama queen would you say? xxx
Chris Welch 06 November at 10:16
Rosie this is sooooo encouraging. I only saw the 2 goat thing around the time of the oast house.I knew the truth behind it....but for years I've been looking for proof that we can preach Christ as us in our form FROM the word go with new Christians. And this is it.I am now certain this is what Paul meant by a laying a foundation of grace in truth.....and why he could then go round his churches sniffing for the scent of Christ crucified.I was, and still am really concerned that if we jump straight into the message of the Mirror which is a laver message, it cannot be quite true, until the first foundation is properly laid in the Spirit. For we deal not with concepts, but with Spirit actualities. From now on what you will impart, is the same, because it is true in you.....but the Enemy will try to make you backtrack and preach a "softer gospel". Like the man in the Temple precinct we say to all...."I dunno the ins and outs, but one thing i know, I was born blind, but now I see." " I was locked in depression, but now I'm not." Or whatever whatever. And it is THIS GOSPEL that puts the cat among the pigeons. Because it throws into stark relief all the others who ARE STILL SECRETLY BOUND and are not telling!
God bless you
I have mentioned before that my style is to take a long time, then shoot ahead.
I didn't walk, but sat, then crawled for 1 1/2 years. Then, in an airport lounge stood up suddenly and ran. I never walked.
In 12 years of methodism plus one year outside Christianity, I was never a Christian. I was never born again. (In my intellectual brain I may have reasoned I was, but this was not true)When I got born again at 13, like so many of our generation I was baptised in the Spirit more or less immediately.
When I was baptised in the Spirit, everyone surrounding me in the upper room rattled off in tongues immediately. probably, because of left-brain constipation...or intellectual analysis of everything I did not for one month....but THAT day eventually I was given the key of faith.They said you have asked, now believe that you HAVE received and start thanking God.Almost immediately the release of the Spirit came. But straight after I was given a faith step of obedience that "seemed " totally out of control. In the rather quiet middle class suburban estate of Great Kingshill ,Bucks God spoke so clearly...because He knew it was so key for my life.He said "Shout hallelujah at the TOP of your voice...the loudest possible" A second wave of God's fire came crashing on me. Like a Toronto anointing 22 years early, I was almost paralysedly drunk.They had to support me down the stairs. With this fire, I set off a small revival in our school by preaching in class and school assembly. Out of 120 boys in our year, one summer's lunchtime I counted 80 of these boys out on the grass...not playing football...but in a school with strong 1970s atheistic leanings.....studying the Bible together. It was crazy.
There is a spiritual pattern here that continues in meetings today.But it happens naturally also.
When my voice broke it took ages, but when it did I dropped 2 octaves overnight and my mum didn't know who was in the house.
In "church " settings I was never asked to preach. Apart from one occasion in France, the first time I was asked to preach was 13 years later by the President of Kenya during a stay with my science teacher parents on one of his schools.
I never married until I was 40. The lady I married had three daughters. The two eldest had children pretty soon afterwards. So I became a Dad to my own son and a kind of grandad to the others....all at once.
Are you getting the picture? Unlike your gorgeous looking Darin Hufford's and Joseph Prince's I have never been invited to lead a group in an organised church setting. The first thing people on here assume is that Daniel Yordy, Rich Novek and I are pastors. Nobody will touch us with a bargepole. But true to form in my case...I am not becoming a pastor....God is instead confirming an apostolic calling through this Two Goats Word. It is an apostolic Key for the church everywhere. It is not a theory or an idea. It is written with God's pen on my insides and similar things are on my net friend's insides. Outside the circus of 1st and 2nd level organised church, I have been a pastor for years....of ones and twos, and at Exeter University (1977-8)a leader of an entire group of us. My present and only wife was one of those. I chuck that in , just to say God has given me some experience. I see ministry like Paul. It is our ability to reproduce Jesus in other people. By ability I mean the Spirit has fully birthed this Jesus capacity in us to reproduce after "His own kind". I look at most pastors and see the limited capacities that Christine and I both had when we were 13.....that is when we brought people to the Cross and afterwards they were baptised in the Spirit. After that, like most pastors we hadn't the foggiest, but just believed God would help us grow people. With next to no firm blueprint in ourselves, it was ofcourse daft to think we knew what we were doing. This is where most of the church world finds itself as it jumps on the latest "organisational growth fads".
The thing I saw today was this. When I was born in Ghana, I took in food, but I had a blocked stomach (pyloric stenosis). After 2 weeks I weighed less than when born. My mum was desperate. She made some sort of bargain about my life with God. I was flown back to Great Ormonds Street and they saved my life.
Now , all over the world, the church has preached a "one goat" message of forgiveness. We eat the "food" of salvation, but it is never digested properly. There is a blockage. People are even baptised in the Spirit with mighty giftings....but because the 2nd goat, the scapegoat foundation was never laid in the Spirit, we have a lot of ministry "goats" racing around reproducing goat like rebelliousness, pyramids,greed,avarice, dirtiness in the Name of Christ. But ofcourse it is NOT in the NAME of Christ and it confuses the whole world. The Word needs properly to be eaten. "Unless you eat my flesh and drink My Blood you have not life in yourselves." In revelation it talks of the Word being sweet to the taste, but in our stomachs it becomes bitter....as it processes to BECOME US.
Here is a related piece by Rich Novek , then below that comments between me and Rosie Crawford after she was liberated by this 2 goats Word .
Dying to "SELF?"
by Rich Novek on Sunday, 07 November 2010 at 14:38
Chris Welch just wrote an article titled “TWO GOATS: Period.”
In his article Chris expounds on the fact that we have literally left out 50% of the gospel message! The one goat for the sacrifice of sins, but what about the other goat?
“When WAS the last sermon you heard on the 2 GOATS? So what I'm saying is…one was to take sins away, and one was to take SIN away.
“WE HAVE ALL BOUGHT ENTRANCE TO A CHRISTIANITY THAT ONLY HAS ONE GOAT.”
And the crazy thing, we were all let in!!!!!!!” (Chris Welch)
I love Chris! He has a way of showing us the REALITY of what is, by taking us back to the original temple, sacrifices, etc. He then adds to his biblical knowledge, the different things he has himself learned and experienced, in gatherings and movements over the course of His Life!
Evalee Bird just tagged me on her latest note: “Faith in the work of God.” In her note she explains the fact it is not in our believing, but it is HIS FATH ALONE which saves and keeps us!
The Spirit is always revealing, which is why we call it revelation! The book, by the way is Revelation, not Revelations! Revelations is plural and implies more than one! GOD IS ONE! And there has ONLY been ONE REVELATION! The revelation of the sacrificial Lamb for all mankind! The supreme efficacy of the blood which has cleansed us from every sin! Because of His Blood we have a bold entry way into His presence, and without any condemnation!
But the blood, as wonderful as it is, still leaves us…ONE GOAT SHORT!
"My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water.” (Jeremiah 2:13)
“For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the POWER OF GOD.” (I Corinthians 1:18)
If you have never read anything by Watchman Nee you need to read his wonderful exposition on Romans 6-8, The Normal Christian Life! And he is right, not only because he shows us the importance of how the blood has cleansed us from our sins, but just as important, he is careful not to leave out the other half of the GOOD NEWS! Our deliverance from SIN! The man of lawlessness who formerly occupied the place where Now ONLY the Spirit lives in His fullness “IN” US!
They have forsaken ME! They have not forsaken the bible, or bible studies, or programs, or the spiritual gifts, they have just left me out of ALL OF IT! And in place of me they have made for themselves cisterns, and these cisterns are broken and hold nothing but vanity, they have no REAL value! They are empty!
For the WORD OF THE CROSS is foolishness?
“In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD WAS GOD! He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made. “IN” Him was Life, and that Life was the light of all mankind. His light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.” (John 1:1-5)
What was God? Does it say the WORD WAS GOD? Read on…….
“The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the WORLD DID NOT RECOGNIZE HIM. He came to that which WAS HIS OWN, BUT…HIS OWN DID NOT RECIEVE HIM! Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born NOT BORN OF NATURAL descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but BORN OF GOD! (John 1:9-13)
The Word BECAME FLESH…and made his dwelling among us. We have seen HIS glory, the glory of the ONE AND ONLY SON, WHO CAME FROM THE FATHER…FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.” (John 1:14)
Contrary to what most believe, the WORD IS NOT THE BIBLE! The Bible is God’s chosen tool to bring us the REVELATION OF THE WORD……..THE ONLY WORD…The LIVING Word who became Flesh and dwelt among us! The Word in who’s glory we beheld! His name is Jesus Christ!
The people of God today are so busy trying to have a relationship with the “letter that kills”, that they have forsaken the TRUE WORD! THE ONLY LIVING WORD!
The church today has become the “foolishness” mentioned in the above passage in I Corinthians! Why? Because they have idolized the book while discounting the Person of the book! Without the preaching of the Cross there is no LIFE! There is NO POWER! The preaching of the Cross opens up the opportunity to move beyond this kingdom of darkness, this land of appearances! The preaching of the Cross IS THE ONLY POWER OF GOD! But instead, they have made cisterns, cisterns which hold no water! Why is that? Why don’t they hold water? Could it be because they have forsaken the FOUNTAIN OF LIVING WATER, WHO IS THE PERSON OF JESUS CHRIST! And have exchanged Him…for it!
The preaching of the Bible, the spiritual gifts, or how to better mange your money doesn’t cost anything, but just start preaching the Cross, and more than that, preach ONLY the Cross!
Because when and if you do you there is one guarantee! That is… God will turn upside down and inside out everything you previously called your life or have put your trust in! Begin preaching “To Live is Christ and to die is gain”, or “For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.”
If you want ALL HE IS He will demand ALL YOU ARE!
It is an impossibility to preach the cross without the cross bringing everything you trust in to the same cross you are preaching! It’s much easier and acceptable to preach about God than it is to allow Him to make us fit for the Master’s use! Because when and if you decide to get serious about your Christianity, you will find God will require ONLY ONE THING! Every-thing! Until all that’s left is HIM! It’s a lot simpler to adhere to the world and the way it operates, and through ignorance, make yourself an enemy of the cross, than it is to embrace the cross!
The only thing we really hear from the church concerning the cross is when people start talking about dying to themselves! This in itself is absolutely impossible! I can’t die to myself anymore than Jesus could crucify Himself! I AM DEAD! This is the second goat! For YOU HAVE DIED and your life is hidden with Christ “IN” God!
DYING TO SELF?
The only thing we really hear from the church concerning the cross is when people start talking about dying to themselves! This in itself is absolutely impossible! I can’t die to myself anymore than Jesus could crucify Himself! I AM DEAD! This is the second goat! For YOU HAVE DIED and your life is hidden with Christ “IN” God!
How then does one know when he has truly DIED TO SELF?
“It's easy to think of dying to self in terms of what we do or don't do. Since childhood, we've been taught to focus on our actions. We gained our parent's approval if we behaved a certain way. As adults, we have success in life if we perform in a certain manner.
When it comes to spiritual performance, however, no matter how hard we try, no matter how long we go at it, we are never quite satisfied with our efforts. There's always one more thing that needs to be taken care of. It becomes an endless struggle to do and to become.
Thankfully, as believers, dying to self is not something we have to attain to. We died to self on the cross with Jesus Christ. ''You have died and your life is hid with Christ in God.'' It's something that has already happened. We express God's glorious self-for-others nature 24/7.” (Alex P. Cohen)
“Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For YOU HAVE DIED, and your life is now hidden with Christ “IN” God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.” (Colossians 3:1-4)
When He died, we died, and when He was buried, so were we! And when He was raised “IN” POWER, we were as well!
The preaching of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing! Paul is not talking to people who don’t already know God, he is in fact talking to the church! He is saying, “if you think for one minute you can accept the benefits of the shed blood without realizing it was that that same blood that purchased you, then you are a fool! And the fool has said in his heart, there is NO GOD!
The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. (Psalm 53:1)
In our seeing ourselves “IN” Christ, we are able to SEE this UNSEEN KINGDOM! Until we SEE our death, burial, and resurrection “IN” Him, we have no choice but to settle for the status quo of what is considered Normal Christianity! And Normal Christianity today is a far cry from what Watchman Nee wrote about in his book! Normal Christianity today is a focus on externals, and a consciousness of “Jesus for me!” This view of Christianity is what Norman Grubb calls “infant Christianity!”
Paul talks about it in Hebrews;
“In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the ELEMENTARY truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!” (Hebrews 5:12)
Paul is saying, “Hey guys, by now you should be completing your Masters degree, but you are still stuck in elementary school! It’s time to grow up, move beyond the milk of seeing ONLY religious externals, and eat of His body and drink of His Blood!”
So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, YOU HAVE NO LIFE “IN” YOU. (John 6:53)
There might be an appearance of life, but it cannot be TRUE LIFE without the ONLY ONE who is Life, living and moving and having His being “IN” US! (Acts 17:28)
Jesus Christ died for us, but we died “IN” Him! Now we are the vessels or conduits of His life! It is impossible to continue to serve the “elementary version” of Christ, while serving and SEEING GOD ONLY!
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, who loved me, and gave himself for me. (Galatians 2:20)
I said earlier you cannot serve two different versions of Christ! Well, in the exact same way you cannot serve and worship two versions of faith!
The ONLY faith God SEES IS THE FAITH “OF” HIS SON! We have no faith, we will never have any faith, and we were never meant to have our own faith!
In embracing the Cross, we allow God to bring to death everything we are trusting in! He takes all that that we thought we had faith in and shows us we have no faith! It is in this process of Him bringing us to the end of our resources we realize the ONLY ONE WHO CAN LIVE THE CHRISTIAN LIFE IS CHRIST HIMSELF! We also learn that we were created to house or contain God and that is all!
Paul learned this secret;
“I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.” (Philippians 4:12)
Paul learned through all of his doing…and Paul was the ultimate do-er, the ONLY TRUE do-er was the Holy Spirit! He learned through the foolishness of the cross that when he was weak, the Spirit “IN” Him was his ONLY strength! He learned of the mystery, hidden for ages and past generations, which IS CHRIST “IN” YOU!
“I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the WORD OF GOD IN ITS FULLNESS— the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but…IS NOW DISCLOSED to the Lord’s people. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is CHRIST “IN” YOU, the hope of glory. (Colossians 1:25-27)
Paul refused to believe in a Cross-less Christianity! He said it was a FULL GOSPEL! Through this FULL GOSPEL message Paul learned of a God he had never known, even though he was an expert in the law!
It is no different today! There are still way too many Saul’s out there walking around, who believe they are preaching LIFE AND TRUTH! But like Paul, they need to knocked to the ground…in order to see their own spiritual blindness! I know I had to be!
Thank God for men and women like Chris, Evalee, and others like them who have seen Christ and Him ONLY as their ONLY LIFE!
Thank God for the complete message! The message which provides the sufficiency of the blood, while revealing to us the supremacy of the Cross!
"Of him are ye in Christ Jesus." The Lord God Himself has put us “IN” Christ, and in His dealing with Christ God has dealt with the whole race. Our destiny is bound up with His. What He has gone through we have gone through, for to be ”IN” Christ is to have been identified with Him in both His death and resurrection. He was crucified: then what about us? Must we ask God to crucify us? Never! When Christ was crucified we were crucified; and His crucifixion is past, therefore ours cannot be future. I challenge you to find one text in the New Testament telling us that our crucifixion is in the future. All the references to it are in the Greek aorist, which is the `once-for-all' tense, the `eternally past' tense. (See: Romans 6:6; Galations 2:20; 5:24; 6:14). And just as no man could ever commit suicide by crucifixion, for it were a physical impossibility to do so, so also, in spiritual terms, God does not require us to crucify ourselves. We were crucified when He was crucified, for God put us there “IN” Him. That we have died “IN” Christ is not merely a doctrinal position, it is an ETERNAL FACT! (Watchman Nee, The Normal Christian Life)
http://dubroom.org/download/pdf/ebooks/watchman_nee_-_the_normal_christian_life.pdf
Chris Welch to Rich's note
I don't know if any of you caught what just happened this week.
If you can imagine the book of Nehemiah when as they were rebuilding Jerusalem the challenge of legitimacy went against them. The building work stopped.
For 20-40 years it has been known by individuals who have crashed and burned themselves that the Christ as us message was the next Spirit foundation to be laid in the wider church. But the cry of legitimacy has been raised against Gods builders and nothing has really happened that has advanced the people of God apart from numerically the world over since the step changes of the 60s and 70s.
The 2 goats key is the legitimacy we now have to say to a Church that is now so bad that thousands are leaving each week in something like the Free Believers Network
Style," this is what is wrong with your gospel! One of your goats is still running free and running our churches! I come in the Name of Jesus and lay the missing foundation that Watchman Nee knew something of through Jessie Penn Lewis,but was further clarified through Norman Grubb who himself "caught it" from Penn Lewis.
So rather like the Israelites 11 days in the Wilderness becoming a rather terminal 40 years, had Penn Lewis and Evan Roberts ever been allowed back into the Welsh Revival with the updated properly accurate 2 goats gospel we'd have been 100 years further on and Darin Hufford would have been less upset. Brethren this is huge!
07 November at 09:13 via Facebook Mobile · Like · 1 person
Rosie Crawford 06 November at 06:48 Report
appreciate what you said re scapegoat and will look at blog re the details you mentioned - but what i really mean is this:your exact wording at the retreat, just 1 sentence, was what exploded inside me with tears shooting as HEEEEEEEEEEEE in a split second showed me the document with His final STAMP of CANCELLATION TO DO WITH GREAT PAST DARKNESS in my past life.I saw HIS INSIGNIA IN THE SEALING WAX YOU SEE, MAKING AN END OF IT WITH TOTAL FINALITY. That's what I saw.All that had been RAGING against me for decades simply EVAPORATED [you know, no substance in darkness?]. And it happened as you opened your mouth . . .
Rosie Crawford 06 November at 07:00 Report
You see I was powerless when 'these things' happened. The pattern in the end was 3 months depression, three months reprival.then the reprival times got shorter and I speeded up my rebuke to myself that i now MUST get my bravery act together and end it NOW. thought of myriad ways - oh the nightmare of it to have your mind speculate and meditate on suicide - WHERE IS THE ABUNDANT LIFE i asked but long since i had seen of course that it wasnt Him not giving life. It was me in the grip of . . something so evil and determined to KILL ME.You do know what i'm talking about can i suppose?
So you must understand my GREAT AND ABSOLUTE FREEDOM now that i soar in His wonderful arms with His wonderful mind and in His absolute provision. I feel .. ITS TOO OVERWHELMING TO EVEN TRY TO FIND THE WORDS. i just loooooove every second of life, i sleep very few hours and His glorious love is in me and over me and through me. I did dream of this, that this could be life in the most ordinary looking way to others when they looked . . . i learned off by heart and did say to Him over the decades , this . . . Now thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ. He makes our lives a constant pageant, a brilliant spectacle . . and through us diffuses the fragrance of His Knowledge IN EVERY PLACE. i must sound I sound so dramatic - such a drama queen would you say? xxx
Chris Welch 06 November at 10:16
Rosie this is sooooo encouraging. I only saw the 2 goat thing around the time of the oast house.I knew the truth behind it....but for years I've been looking for proof that we can preach Christ as us in our form FROM the word go with new Christians. And this is it.I am now certain this is what Paul meant by a laying a foundation of grace in truth.....and why he could then go round his churches sniffing for the scent of Christ crucified.I was, and still am really concerned that if we jump straight into the message of the Mirror which is a laver message, it cannot be quite true, until the first foundation is properly laid in the Spirit. For we deal not with concepts, but with Spirit actualities. From now on what you will impart, is the same, because it is true in you.....but the Enemy will try to make you backtrack and preach a "softer gospel". Like the man in the Temple precinct we say to all...."I dunno the ins and outs, but one thing i know, I was born blind, but now I see." " I was locked in depression, but now I'm not." Or whatever whatever. And it is THIS GOSPEL that puts the cat among the pigeons. Because it throws into stark relief all the others who ARE STILL SECRETLY BOUND and are not telling!
God bless you
Rosie Crawford:
I dont expect you to know how sure I am
because well, i suppose you dont know me well enough. I could not be
more sure of this that this amazing One who adores us so , has done for
moi, than anything else in my life. it is THEEEEEEEEEEEEE rescue of my
life, theeeeeeeeeeee start of everything I HAVE DREAMED OF all my life
since 1974 and earlier.Even before I knew Him, I knew Him in another
way, without knowing it was him. I was, as it were kind of being and
talking and acting His language without knowing it. and I think He
links arms sometimes with an 'unbeliever' in ways that makes you dance
to a tune that he is calling - and you dont even know it - EXCEPT
you're inspired and driven forward at the sound of that tune - if
you get my meaning?? and everything in my life is just slotting into
place in minutae [spelling please?] of detail like nothing I have ever
known of but always hoped for
at a point i so completely GAVE UP EVERY EVERY DREAM I EVER DREAMED and
now that i have given them up [and not a long time has elapsed sicne i
'gave up' the dreams] its all coming to me, in abundance , and over and
above what i ever dreamed was possible. i am so overcome sometimes. its
hard to say on paper or email.
Chris Welch-
because well, i suppose you dont know me well enough. I could not be
more sure of this that this amazing One who adores us so , has done for
moi, than anything else in my life. it is THEEEEEEEEEEEEE rescue of my
life, theeeeeeeeeeee start of everything I HAVE DREAMED OF all my life
since 1974 and earlier.Even before I knew Him, I knew Him in another
way, without knowing it was him. I was, as it were kind of being and
talking and acting His language without knowing it. and I think He
links arms sometimes with an 'unbeliever' in ways that makes you dance
to a tune that he is calling - and you dont even know it - EXCEPT
you're inspired and driven forward at the sound of that tune - if
you get my meaning?? and everything in my life is just slotting into
place in minutae [spelling please?] of detail like nothing I have ever
known of but always hoped for
at a point i so completely GAVE UP EVERY EVERY DREAM I EVER DREAMED and
now that i have given them up [and not a long time has elapsed sicne i
'gave up' the dreams] its all coming to me, in abundance , and over and
above what i ever dreamed was possible. i am so overcome sometimes. its
hard to say on paper or email.
Chris Welch-
Rosie,
this is amazing stuff.
I'm beginning to see your story as God's negative.
You have gone into the depths of the earth- a truly dark place
that He might well and truly finish off every trace of
"independent believing"....that what you now share and live in,
your very existence is Him in your spirit centre as you in your
soul and in your body. That your life really is interleaved,bound up,
hidden with Christ in God. But not some far off never never land God.
The right here in Rosie Crawford God.
What Nancy describes as you on location for God.
So great that you can testify to your girlfriend in a similar position.
I didn't get your last email and am so blessed by all of them.
Did you get to read the Two Goats message as a Facebook note,
which is now on the blog. I expect you never saw a comment I put on
Rich Novek's last note about how important a key this is.(I'll cut and
paste
it to the blogpost)
It is because of your story that I have had to go back and almost look
at it
again,
like you do a slow motion replay. "Now....what exactly happened there?"
Do you know that is why the first tabernacle was set up in such detail
under Moses? It was God saying...."You know when the Release comes
it's only going to be 3 days long, tucked on some obscure hillside
outside the city walls. So I'm going to set up a type and shadow which
is like a freeze frame of all the things that are going to happen
before the
event
itself....so you've got hundreds of years to familiarize yourself.When
it
happens its going to be so fast, it'll be over in a blink of an eye."
And even now after the event.....the full release happens in us
like an electric shock out of nowhere
as you said in the blink of a millisecond!
Wow wow wow wow.
this is amazing stuff.
I'm beginning to see your story as God's negative.
You have gone into the depths of the earth- a truly dark place
that He might well and truly finish off every trace of
"independent believing"....that what you now share and live in,
your very existence is Him in your spirit centre as you in your
soul and in your body. That your life really is interleaved,bound up,
hidden with Christ in God. But not some far off never never land God.
The right here in Rosie Crawford God.
What Nancy describes as you on location for God.
So great that you can testify to your girlfriend in a similar position.
I didn't get your last email and am so blessed by all of them.
Did you get to read the Two Goats message as a Facebook note,
which is now on the blog. I expect you never saw a comment I put on
Rich Novek's last note about how important a key this is.(I'll cut and
paste
it to the blogpost)
It is because of your story that I have had to go back and almost look
at it
again,
like you do a slow motion replay. "Now....what exactly happened there?"
Do you know that is why the first tabernacle was set up in such detail
under Moses? It was God saying...."You know when the Release comes
it's only going to be 3 days long, tucked on some obscure hillside
outside the city walls. So I'm going to set up a type and shadow which
is like a freeze frame of all the things that are going to happen
before the
event
itself....so you've got hundreds of years to familiarize yourself.When
it
happens its going to be so fast, it'll be over in a blink of an eye."
And even now after the event.....the full release happens in us
like an electric shock out of nowhere
as you said in the blink of a millisecond!
Wow wow wow wow.
