The Meaning of Union VII - X by David Heisler

Facebook Note on Saturday, 09 April 2011 at 15:23
The Meaning of Union VII

The Child sees his “Christian” life as how it benefits him – “my sins are forgiven”, “I’m going to Heaven”.

The Young Man sees his “Christian” life, also, as how it benefits him – “I am strong” – “I know the bible” – “I can whip the devil”. Or worse – the Young Man can get into doing this or that to obtain “blessings” or “wealth” or “health” or whatever. The Young Man can be very self-centered.

The Father is different. He knows the difference between the improved life and the replaced life. His life is not about him or for him. The Father knows he lives his life for others. He is Christ in his world.

“I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning.”
I John 2.13

Let’s not forget one thing – you already have Union – His Spirit joined eternally and unchangeably to your spirit. What does that mean? It means you are already a Father.

The question arises – why should I know my union? The answer is simple – “Christ must be formed in you” – and He already is – but the “forming” is the “knowing” – intuitively, permanently, unquestionably.

Why is that so important? Why must I know this? In the Old Testament He tells us His name - “I am”. Jesus also said “I am”. But that sort of begs the question – “I am who – I am what?”.

Well He answers that question also – “God is love”. So, one thing we know is that love is not an emotion – although love can be felt. It is not a thing to be obtained. More properly Love is a Person - the Person. You will not get more love as if it were a thing to be obtained – but you will be an expression of the Person who is Love.

Why is this important? Because - Love exists for others. Love has no other purpose. If God made a choice – and that is hard to imagine because “choice” is really a temporal word – a word for time and space – but let’s say He sat down one day and made a choice. Well His choices are obvious. He could be alone – or - He could have created all that exists to serve Him – or - and the choice He obviously made, was that He could serve and, in fact, die for His creation. Well, if that’s not the best definition of love – I don’t know how to define love.

So – we are now the expression of Him who is Love. And, we are in fact Love ourselves.

More on that in Part VIII

The Meaning of Union VIII
by David Heisler on Monday, 11 April 2011 at 19:39


We know we are Fathers. We know that it is important to know this – but why?

Well, what is His purpose in all this? Are we created to be a race of immature Children and Young Men? Is there some eternal purpose in all being self-centered – “getting the blessings” like kids in a candy store? No. Of course not.

The truth is we are mature. We do know who we are. We are safe. We are His expression. He is the lover. We are lovers. He is the creator. We are creators. He gave His life. We shall give our lives. This is truly Christianity. This is who we are.

The process of going from the consciousness of Children to Young Men to Fathers is what Paul described as the “renewing of your mind”. “… be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind …” [Romans 12.2] “And be renewed in the spirit of your mind …” [Ephesians 4.23] Understanding that, as a Father, you exist for others is very different than your original thoughts about Christianity.

The Father’s mind is renewed. He does not see Christianity as a religion to improve his self. His self will never be improved, only replaced by Christ Himself. Fathers do not look to “get something” out of Christianity – rather – he sees himself as one who gives all because he loves and is love himself.

Look again at how John describes the Father: “I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning.” [I John 2.13] There is such clarity in that vantage point – knowing Him – the One from the beginning. All the nonsense of religious Christianity drops away at that point. That statement is beyond human grasp – except by intuition.

More in Part IX

The Meaning of Union IX

So how do you get it? How do you “know” your union? Well, for one it is real whether you know it or not. You are a Father whether you appear to be or not. Your feelings are irrelevant. Appearances are irrelevant. Feelings and appearances are irrelevant as to the eternal truth of who you are.

There is one thing you must know. He always gives confirmation of what is real – eventually. That old missionary always talked about expressing faith like committing yourself to sitting in a chair. Have you ever seen someone sit in a chair and the chair broke. It’s very funny if it’s not you. It does happen. Sometimes chairs break. However, He does not break.

But you must fall backwards into Him like you would fall backwards into a chair. The only difference is that He will never, ever fail you and, most important, is that at some point you will realize that it is not you that hold Him, but He that holds you. You will realize that you do not hold Christianity together by anything you do – praying, reading, singing, fellowshipping, tithing – or any of the other “so-called” Christian activities. All is dependent upon Him, period.

At some point it will simply occur to you that – what you have said a thousand or ten thousand times “He lives His life as me” – is true. It may hit you like a ton of eternal bricks. There will be confirmation.

But, as sure as the sun will rise in the east – the reality [truth] is that you were crucified with Christ – and – now the life you live is Him living as you.

The good thing is that it is not your job to give the confirmation – it is His. So, basically just forget about it – let Him be Himself.

And, so, in the words of Forrest Gump, “that’s all I have to say about that [for now]”.
Response to Union
by David Heisler on Wednesday, 13 April 2011 at 13:51
Here’s a response I got from a good friend:

“Hey David,

What's interesting to me is that everything in the Christian life works this way:

Objective leads to Subjective.

Our problem is that in natural religion, we want to see it, feel it, experience it first before we accept the truth as true.

All the truths of Christianity are only true objectively, completely apart from myself, or my
experience, or my feelings or will. They are true in heaven before we were even born in time
and space. But God's word tells us they are true nonetheless, and true of us, even before we
subjectively experience them. Because we were truly baptized into Christ Jesus death and
resurrection long before we were born, even before time began, because He is the Lamb slain
from the foundation of the world. And all men were placed into Christ Jesus.

Your testimony below reminded me of this because this is what I've been dealing with. "You're
already dead, how can you die to self when I already killed your old self 2,000 yrs. ago?"

And as we accept the Objective truth, it becomes subjective. Natural religion, even Christian
natural religion, always puts the experience first, whether that be fruit, obedience, works, the
will, the mind or the emotions or our behavior. All of these things come after faith, not before.
We have to die to our own religion, our own self, as we take His objective truth, completely
outside of what we know to be ourselves, as true on our behalf. Then as we go forward with
that truth simply by faith and meditating on His truth, the subjective experience comes along
after to prove that it was already true. It doesn't become true when we "get it" or feel it or
experience it, it's true beforehand.

"Faith is the substance," the substance isn't the substance, faith is. "Faith is the victory," the
victory is not the victory, faith is. This relaxes us because we don't have to "get it" to get it.
We've already got it all, in Him. But as we receive that, then we will experience it, but it's only
a byproduct, it's not the substance

The Anna Approach (union message X? adjunct)
by David Heisler on Thursday, 14 April 2011 at 16:36


More and more, for my own understanding of things, I take the “Anna” approach -- I refer to “Anna” as in “Mister God this is Anna”. See how Ann broke things down to their simplest parts and ideas.



P.19 of “Mister God this is Anna”

The local parson talked with Anna, then age 5 or 6:

The Parson said to Anna, “Do you believe in God?”
“Yes”
“Do you know what God is?”
“He’s God!”
“Do you go to church?”
“No.”
“Why not?”
“Because I know it all!”
“What do you know?”
“I know to love Mister God and to love people and cats and dogs and spiders and flowers and trees … with all of me.”

Do we need more theology or doctrine?

The Meaning of Union IV - VI by David Heisler

Facebook Note on Wednesday, 06 April 2011 at 17:04
The Meaning of Union IV
Christian growth is all about understanding who you are – not becoming who you are. At the moment of salvation His Spirit formed a union with your spirit. Despite that truth, through the eyes of a Child or a Young Man - He can still seem distant and a distinct being from you.

We now enter the Young Man [or Woman – it is really gender neutral] stage. Remember how John describes the Young Man:

“… I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one…. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one". I John 2.12-14

Young Man emphasis is strength, knowledge of the written word and power to overcome evil. Young Man is a necessary stage, but it is just that – a “stage” not a place to remain.

You must thoroughly understand the error of seeing yourself as a participant in a self-improvement program – called Christianity – where you equate growth with gaining knowledge and becoming powerful. For a time you must think it is all “about you” – you are strong – you know the bible – you know how to fight satan – you – you – you.

But this stage must end – at the end of your rope. You’ve done that once - you stopped rationalizing, theorizing and avoiding the truth – you did exercise that mustard seed of faith and commenced your relationship with the King of the Universe.

Now, as a Young Man you will come to the end of your rope again. The Young Man will attempt to perfect his Christianity – not knowing it is already perfect. The Young Man will work very hard at Christianity and may spend many years doing just that.








NB Picture:This book is a spoof, does not exist, and if it existed it would be heresy. The picture is MC Escher's famous impossible staircase as LEGO. Artwork Chris WelchSo, what is the “plan”? The Young Man approaches Christianity as a religion – a self-improvement religion. He busies himself memorizing scripture [which is a good thing really], fighting the devil and being proud of how strong he thinks he is. The Young Man will pray “God fill this place with your Spirit” – or – “God give me the strength, or wisdom or faith or whatever – God give me something so I can do [whatever]”.

The Young Man still sees God as external – separate from himself. He thinks he must wake God up to the problems of the world. God is somewhere else [perhaps sleeping] and must be entreated to “do such and such a thing”. “Strength” is seen as a thing to be acquired – that God will give you if you ask Him properly.

The Young Man will, eventually fall flat on his face and say “it’s not working”. He will be frustrated with his inability to move forward, as he thinks he should, into Christian maturity. It is at that point that he is ripe for the next step – Fatherhood.

More on that in Part V






The Meaning of Union V
by David Heisler on Thursday, 07 April 2011 at 17:15

When I was young all I wanted to do was play football. So I did all the things I thought I needed to do to be a better football player. I saw it as a progression from “not a good football player” to someday, maybe, if I worked hard enough, to a “great football player”. I approached Christianity the same way.

I wanted to go from being a beginner to being a great Christian. So I did everything I thought I should do – and – there were many, well-intentioned, willing to pile on all the requirements.

I got a bible.

I got another bible.

I got a better bible.

I got a concordance.
I joined a church.

I joined another church.

I joined a better church.
I started reading the bible.

I listened to sermons.

I took notes.

I went to bible studies.

I taught bible studies.

I memorized scripture.

I witnessed – I actually won people to Christ.

The great misconception of Christianity is that it is “about me”. The great truth of Christianity is that “me is done” – in fact – “me is dead” – but rather – “me is alive”- actually – “but it is Christ that lives in me”.

“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me…” Gal. 2.20

“For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.” Col. 3.3

So the truth is - what part of “dead” is available for self-improvement? How is it possible to go from a “not so good Christian” to a “great Christian”? What part of “dead” is going to become a better, more devoted Christian? What part of “dead” can live an ethics – morals – values based life. No part whatsoever.

The understanding – revelation – epiphany of Fatherhood – and of true Christianity for that matter - begins when a person understands that their life is over and that it is Christ that lives His life as you. Now, I will discuss this further, later, but this does not mean you live a “dead” life. By no means! Your life will be full and vibrant with true Life.

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life…” John 14.6 “Life” is not a thing to be possessed – Life is a Person – a Person that lives His life as me – quite humbling to grasp that He actually chooses to live His life as me.

When you fail at Christianity – or rather – when Christianity fails you - you commence the process of “Christ … [being] formed in you”. Gal. 4.19

More on that in Part VI

The Meaning of Union VIby David Heisler on Friday, 08 April 2011 at 13:35
The Meaning of Union VI

Having started Christianity at a relatively advanced age [18] the whole deal came flying at me very quickly. At age 19, about 13 months after my salvation, I heard my first message of “union” - Fatherhood. I had the privilege [coincidence? – mistake?] of accepting an invitation from a friend to hear an old missionary speak at All Saints Episcopal Church in Fort Worth.

At that point – in my short Christian existence – I really had heard every different take on “real” Christianity. I really don’t recall exactly what that old missionary said that day, but I knew he was on to something [understatement].
The speaker encouraged me to see myself differently. For the next seven and one-half years I said, to myself, over and over, that I, David Heisler, am the David Heisler form [expression] of Jesus Christ. I believed that to be true. But, for those seven and one-half years I really didn’t “get it”. It was initially only a concept to me – a concept I whole-heartedly accepted and wanted to know – but only, none-the-less, a concept.

In my mid-twenties I played minor league football in Racine, Wisconsin. One day, during the summer of my 26th year, I was running wind sprints along the side of Lake Michigan. I was thinking a [very “non-union”] idea that I had heard many times – that “you must die out to self”. That statement is a staple in many Christian circles. Plainly stated – “dying out to self” is a lie. It cannot happen. Even if it could, it does not need to happen. Why? Because of the very next thought I had as I was sprinting.

“I am dead”

I stopped “on a dime”. The thought “I am dead” hit me like a ton of bricks. I made that statement a thousand times since I first heard the message of Union [Fatherhood]. But this time was different.

I really don’t recall

exactly what that

old missionary said that day,

but I knew he was on to

something [understatement].

It stuck. I got it. The very truth that He now lived His life as me was no longer theory or a concept to me. It was no longer a statement I made. It was true. He was true. He lives His life in His David Heisler form. The chair I sat in proved it could hold me. He proved He could hold me.

Is this the end of the story? Of course not.

There will be more in Part VII

The Meaning of Union Parts I - III by David Heisler

Facebook Note on Sunday, 03 April 2011 at 16:48
The Meaning of Union I

In Christian circles “union” is used, but what does it mean?

“Union” expresses a “right now” reality for all who believe in Jesus. We all have “union” or are “in union” with God. But we may not know it - yet.

The idea of not “knowing” your union and then moving toward that inner knowing is what I am talking about. The discussion must start with how you perceive yourself at this moment. That might be the key to how you perceive yourself tomorrow. There are three very distinct perceptions. The best scriptural reference I know, and, refer to often, is found in I John 2.12-13
Early Fisherfolk LP (Church of the Redeemer Coffee House- The way IN)

“I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.“

John refers to three categories: Children, Young Men and Fathers. To be clear there are not three categories of believers. In fact, the reality is that we are all Fathers – we just don’t all know it. But when we do, we know our “union”. You always are in union with God, but you might not know it at the moment. But, there are eternal reasons and meaning for each category.

The category you find yourself in is merely your perception of yourself. Of course we all have all sorts of perceptions and thoughts, but these are the basic three – at least as far as John saw it.

Now, what does “category” or “perception” mean? “Children” see themselves in a childlike relationship with God. Generally speaking that person is relatively new to the faith. That person might have had a dramatic conversion experience. God, who was afar off, is now near and He is kind and loving and basically, “Daddy”. It’s a sweet time especially for those who really need a Daddy. The Child is basically a “taker” and not a “giver”.

In the [little] Children stage “forgiveness of sin” is big – for many really big. I say that because there are many that come to faith in Jesus with a checkered past. Their life gets a complete makeover upon faith in Jesus. So, knowing the burden and the penalty of sin is lifted and that you have eternal life, because of the vicarious death of the Savior is wonderful and life-changing.

The reality is that you’re not going to stay a Child forever. Some try, but inevitably all will move on.

And, we will talk about that in Part II.

The Meaning of Union II
by David Heisler on Monday, 04 April 2011 at 14:12



So, we have laid out three basic categories – Children, Young Men and Father. Let’s talk more about Children.

Most, when new to Christianity, approach it as you would approach anything new – get with the program - find out what you can - associate with others. Advice is freely given by those more “experienced”.

Up until salvation God is seen afar off. He appears to be a separate entity from me. We exist in the same universe, but He is “up” in heaven and I am here on earth. But, after salvation - I now know Him and before I did not. But basically He still appears to be “outside” or “separate” from me.

Christianity is now seen as a thing to be learned - program to do – the Bible to memorize – quiet times to have – church to join and go to – bible studies to attend. It can all get very complicated very quickly. It did for me.

I became a believer in Jesus at 18 years of age.



Sacred Heart University
Before my 20th birthday I went from being Jewish to getting baptized and confirmed Roman Catholic at Sacred Heart University in Bridgeport, Connecticut; baptized Southern Baptist at James Avenue Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas; learning about commune living at the Episcopal Church of the Redeemer in Houston, Texas; attended Bill Gothard’s Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts and finally, “got the Holy Ghost” complete with my own prayer language.

Not bad for a Jewish kid from New York.

I was mess.

What happened? What happened to the simplicity of “Daddy” – my sins are forgiven – and I’m going to heaven?

Well – what happened was my Child stage of Christianity was over and I commenced life as a Young Man.

More on that in Part III



The Meaning of Union III
by David Heisler on Tuesday, 05 April 2011 at 19:44

While my life history may be different than yours, we all have the same exact feelings, emotions and psychology regarding our progression from Children to Young Men and on to Fatherhood

Before jumping into the “Young Man” discussion, it is crucial to understand what Christian “growth” means and to review some basics.

Consider a human embryo. Upon conception that human has the genetic potential for all he or she will ever be. The human will grow from microscopic size to full grown size – but the fertilized egg is a complete human [genetically speaking]. That embryo will never become more of a human being or a better human being.

In the very same sense the “child” Christian – while new in the faith – is a complete Christian. The Child will never become more of a Christian or a better Christian. The Child will never be closer to God or have more of Him. The Christian is 100% complete at salvation.

You would never say that, because a human being is young or small that somehow they are not a complete person. Physical growth does not affect the reality of who a human is.

The confusing point is that as Christians we equate Christian growth with getting closer to God by learning more about Him or living a more ethical or moral existence – doing what “Jesus would do” – becoming more “Christ-like”. This is primarily because in the “Child” and “Young Man” stages God is still perceived as external or a separate Being – which is a misconception – as He is not external or separate.

Reality does not get any more basic than the fact that God chose to deem the entire creation lost - not some more than others – just all lost. All need forgiveness – all need a Savior. What He did at that point did not depend upon a human – with the exception of One – Jesus Christ. The crucifixion is the one and final sacrifice needed to bring the entire creation to redemption.

So, when a person avails themselves of their free gift of redemption, a very common prayer that many use, upon their first exercise of faith is “come into my heart Lord Jesus”. Well, that’s actually and precisely what happens. His spirit is now joined to your spirit. That union [right – that’s what we’re talking about] is created. It does not get “better” or “more”. It simply is. What we’re talking about is “do I know it?” And the reality is that a Child or Young Man really can’t know that – not at the moment.

Church of the Redeemer Houston Texas

So, basically, in a flash you go from lost to found – sinner to saint. There are no better or worse sinners. By the same token there are no better or worse saints. You either are or you are not. So, if there actually is such a thing as “Christian growth”, it is only in the human understanding not in the reality.

More in Part IV

Coming Out of Darkness Part 23 by Gary Sigler

Facebook on Wednesday, 13 April 2011 at 16:22
The Three Stages of Spiritual Growth Part 3
Fathers

"I write unto you, Fathers, because ye have known Him that is from the beginning"
1 Jn. 2:13).

John repeats the above
sentence twice.

The Fathers know Him that is from the beginning.

Their understanding of God goes way beyond the comprehension of Christianity. When
you know God as Father, you realize that you came out of His substance. Adam is
your Father according to the flesh, but God is your Father according to the
spirit.

"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence:
shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb. 12:9).

"And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall
one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?" (Num. 16:22).

"Let the LORD,
the God of the spirits of all flesh
set a man over the congregation" (Num. 27:16).

"The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the
heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man
within him" (Zech. 12:1).

God is spirit and He is our Father. All mankind have a spirit.
"He that is joined to the
Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17).

God is the God of your spirit, not your flesh
.
This is one reason that all men are included in redemption. Your spirit was
brought forth from the very substance of God. In your spirit, you and God are
one. If you learn how to live and function from your spirit, then God is once
again manifested in humanity.

There will come a day in
your spiritual growth when you will become a spiritual Father.

A Father is one who is a mature believer who carries the presence of God within him.

He will reproduce God’s life, God’s will, and His glory in others.
A Father in the natural is one who reproduces human life. A Father in the spirit reproduces
spiritual life. Jesus said,
"It is the spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit,
and they are life" (John 6:63). When we learn to speak from our
spirit the words of God, then our words also become spirit and life. We can
impart life to others by our speaking. True ministry imparts life and builds up
the saints.
"Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and
read of all men: Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of
Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the
living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart" (2
Cor. 3:2-3).

To become a Father means that God’s life has swallowed up the carnal life and you are now a
representative of Him on the earth.

It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me.
Another way to share the three stages of spiritual growth is:

1. God to you


2. God in you


3. God as you





As God to you, you understand that God came to man.

He came to you to redeem you and restore you back to fellowship with your Father.

He came not just to the Jews, not just to the Christians, but he came to the

world. God to you is the first revelation in the mystery of God. Every man has
a spirit, the substance of God. And God came to you to quicken and regenerate
your spirit, so that you could once again have fellowship and commune with Him.

God to you

means:
that God is for you. No matter how much sin I am in, no matter how many
times I fall and fail God, He comes to me every day with the offer of pardon
and redemption. The carnal mind will always keep us in sin and bondage, That is
why God is to you. You need to understand that God paid the price for
every act of disobedience and transgression so that He could reconcile you to
Himself.
"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not
imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of
reconciliation" (2 Cor. 5:19).

These verses tell us
that God in Christ comes to you realizing that you are not responsible for the
condition you are in, so it is not your fault. You are pretty much in prison to
the carnal mind. God, willing to show His love, sacrificed Himself on the cross
so you would understand that He knows that you can’t in your carnal human
condition help yourself, so He came to help you. He came to be the reconciler
that would reconcile you back to God. When Adam and Eve fell, God wasn’t mad at
them; He had already made provision for their redemption. Their redemption was
based on God’s choice, not on their choice. There are people who have never
heard the gospel, but that does not stop God’s provision from working for their
good. Eventually God’s redemption will be realized fully in them.
That is God to you.

God In You

When you realize that
God is to you and you begin to seek Him and come into a deeper understanding,
and begin to hunger and thirst after Him, you then begin to realize God is in
you. Paul told us that our hope is "CHRIST IN YOU" (Col. 1:27). Our
hope is not in a "rapture" that will automatically change us into
Christ’s likeness. That is a fairy tale and a fallacy.

The only hope we have is
Christ in us. Because He is in us, that is our hope of glory. If Christ is
truly in you and you are not experiencing Him, even though He is in you, it is,
at least in this present time, doing you no good. Knowing it intellectually is
not enough. All Christians know God came to them to save them, but most never
experience God in them to deliver them from a life of self. We have people in
churches around the world who say they are born again but never experience God
in them to deliver them.

God wants not only to come to you with
redemption, but He wants you to realize that
He can live in you, instead of
you. I was a Christian for years before I experienced Christ in me. I knew
intellectually and was taught that Jesus was in me, but I had no experience of
His living through me. I experienced God’s love and forgiveness, but I didn’t
know He could live His life in me. God in me is a marvelous revelation. That’s
the "young man" that John talks about. God in us with His ability and
creative Word to change us and the very atmosphere in which we live.
That is God in us and that is wonderful. However, when you experience God in
you, you still have the flesh to deal with. So yes, God is in me, but the
self-life still raises up so there is a certain amount of warfare we must do,
not with the devil,
but with self. There are Christians who have spent years
fighting the devil and trying to pull down strongholds, when they themselves are
still little children in the spirit.

If Christ is

truly in you and you are not experiencing Him, even though He is in you, it is,

at least in this present time, doing you no good.

What we need to deal
with is not the devil outside of us, but the spirit of antichrist that is in
our flesh. Some get upset when I say that Christians have a spirit of
antichrist, but nevertheless, that is the case. Has God ever asked you to do
something and your flesh said NO? That is antichrist. Anything in you that is
against the workings of God is antichrist. In the mass of humanity, both
Christian and non-Christian,
the antichrist is at this present time ruling and reigning in a people.

Christianity is looking for this man to come in

an outward way, when all the time he is working and growing in their flesh and

they do not recognize it.

Our carnal nature is permeated with the antichrist

spirit. Most Christians are in the darkness and do not understand the very
basic things of God because of the antichrist nature that is in their flesh.

The experience of God in
you is the first step in learning how to deal with that antichrist nature that
is in us. You should never be condemned for this. You have inherited the
antichrist spirit. You did not do anything to cause you to be this way.

There are only two men
growing on the earth today: Adam and Christ. (We will deal with this more in another
chapter of Coming Out of Darkness.) These two men are growing on the
earth at the same time. There is a mass of humanity that is growing within them
the antichrist spirit. I know this is hard for some to accept, but you can be a
Christian, go to church, read your Bible, give a tithe to the church, be full
of good works, and still be growing the antichrist within you. This antichrist
is not always easy to identify. The Revelation calls this spirit
"MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH"
(Rev. 17:5).

A mystery is not always
easy to figure out. Babylon means confusion. I do not know of a more confused
group of people of the earth today than the people of Christianity. This is not
the fault of the people. Our leaders have taught us confusion for years. We
have some of the most popular ministries of our day winning people to Jesus,
telling them after they are saved to "Go to the church of your choice. If
you want to be a Catholic go to the Catholic Church. If you want to be a
Lutheran go to the Lutheran Church." This is confusion! God is
redeeming people and calling them out of confusion, not bringing them to
Him and putting them in it. Christians need to realize that antichrist can and
is growing in the Christian system.

I am not against the
Catholics, Lutherans, or any other people. I will go to a Catholic or any other
church to minister to the people, but I will not and cannot support that
ungodly antichrist system. That system is absolutely robbing God’s people of
their heritage. There are two mysteries in the book of The Revelation and they
are both growing at the same time. They are both growing within us, and one of
them is going to overcome the other. This is why I say that the choices you
make are very important. The choices that you make will either feed the
antichrist carnal nature within you or will feed the spirit of the living God

that is within you.

People quote scriptures like

"I can do all things through Christ"

(Phi. 4:13). No you can’t, if you are a carnal

Christian.

But if the Spirit of God begins to grow in you and begins to swallow

up that carnal nature, then you can be like the Apostle Paul and say, "I
can do all things through Christ." Please don’t take a spiritual baby and
put that burden on them when you yourself can’t do it.

We need Christians who
understand these principles and can minister them to the Body and help them
grow. It doesn’t matter how many times we fall and miss the mark. Just keep
making the right choices and keep seeking God until He grows in you.
"For
he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of
them that diligently seek him" (Heb. 11:6).

Anything in you that is
saying no to God is antichrist. That could be anger, resentment, bitterness or
anything else that is not godly. Some people think they have been good Christians
all their lives, and then something happens that they don’t understand, and
they get mad at God. When you get angry with God, you have a serious problem
and do not know the heart of your Father. You get angry with Him because of
circumstances beyond your control. That is an antichrist spirit. We need
Christians who will be honest with God and take responsibility for their
actions. Just be honest and come to the light, don’t run away from it.

God As You

As little children, we
realize that God is to us. As young men, we realize God is in us.
Then we begin to experience God as us. All three of these stages are
progressive. The Spirit of the Lord changes us from glory to glory. As a little
child, we can experience something of the Father’s reproducing life. Unlike
natural babies, spiritual babies can reproduce spiritual babies. In fact, you
can and will reproduce what you are. However, when you begin to mature and
become a Father, you will be able to impart life to the babies that will help
them grow into children, and then young men, and eventually, Fathers.

I can’t tell you a whole
lot about being a Father because I haven’t experienced a lot,

but I can tell you what it is. It is no longer just God to you or God in you, but it is God as
you.

This does not mean that your human carnal nature is God.

This does not mean that Gary Sigler is God.

What it means is that God’s Spirit in my spirit has totally swallowed my carnal nature. I am now as He is. I and my Father are one. The Apostle Paul experienced this, he said,
"I am crucified
with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the
life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who
loved me, and gave himself for me" (Gal. 2:20).

This is what will
produce the glorious Church. A group of people who no longer live in
themselves. Their carnal life has been swallowed up in the victorious,
transcendent, resurrected life of Jesus Christ. It is no longer just God in
His people but God as His people.

Unlike

natural babies, spiritual babies can reproduce spiritual babies. In fact, you

can and will reproduce what you are.

I have experienced at times being so
caught up in the Spirit of God that I have known that it was God appearing
as
"For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in
them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people" ( That is what tabernacles is all about.2Cor. 6:16). What a wonderful revelation, God to you, God in you
and then God as you.To be continued

Coming Out of Darkness Part 22 by Gary Sigler

Facebook on Tuesday, 12 April 2011 at 15:21.

Three Stages of Spiritual Growth Part 2 Young Men

"I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one" (1 Jn. 2:13-14). The Word of God abiding in you is much more than just memorizing the words of the Bible. Years ago, I had entire chapters of the Bible committed to memory without much experience of the Word operating in my life. When the Word of God abides in you, it becomes a part of your being. It becomes the Word again made flesh. It is the living and abiding Word working in you that enables you to live godly and overcome the wicked one. As the Word begins to operate in you, you begin, in small ways at first, to think and speak according to the principles of the Word and begin to see change take place in your life. Whenever we speak from our spirit the words of God that abide in us, those words have just as much value as the words spoken from the lips of Jesus . This is not the name it and claim it doctrine. Many people try to use positive confession and thinking, trying to manipulate God to do what they want. Most of them do not realize what they are doing, but this is the case. Whenever you take the written Word of God that He spoke to someone else long ago and use that as positive confession you are not abiding in the Word. However, if you are reading the Bible and God speaks it again to you and it becomes a living thing to you, then you can speak it in true faith and assurance that what you speak will come to pass. The key to speaking the Word is to only speak what God has spoken to you. An Example of Acting on the Spoken Word I will never forget a few years ago a former pastor of ours rose one Sunday morning and in his prayer time God spoke to Him and said, "Joe is going to walk today." Joe had been in a wheelchair for quite sometime unable to walk. In church that morning, the pastor went up to Joe and said, "God spoke to me today and said you were going to walk, so get up." Joe just looked at him and said "I can’t do it" but the pastor said, "God said you were going to walk, so get up." Still Joe just shook his head no and said he could not get up. Then the pastor spoke to two ushers and said, "Get Joe out of his chair." They pulled Joe out of his chair and the pastor said, "Make him walk." The ushers dragged him back and forth across the front of the church with the pastor saying, "In the name of Jesus you will walk," over and over for about ten minutes. By this time everyone in the church was thinking the pastor had missed God, but he just kept on saying "Walk." All at once, as the ushers were dragging this man across the church, strength came into his legs and he began to stand on his feet and walk alone. Well, you can imagine the praises that ascended to God that morning. This is the only way true miracles happen in ministry. You cannot just read in the Bible that God heals people and then start speaking the Word to everyone you see that is sick. Don’t misunderstand me, I am not saying you shouldn’t pray for the sick, you should. If God doesn’t give you a Word for a miracle, pray for them but don’t make a fool of yourself and do disgrace to the Spirit of God by speaking a word of healing to someone and it not happening. You won’t have to make excuses why the person did not get healed like, "You just didn’t have enough faith. I spoke the Word but you did not believe." There is so much of that kind of trash in the church which just brings condemnation on people because you were not acting out of faith. Joe did not have faith to be healed, but God had spoken to the pastor, and what God speaks to you, HE will do.

An Example of Speaking a Word You Haven’t Heard

A few years ago, I saw one of the leading "Word of Faith" teachers line up about 15 wheelchair patients and begin to speak the "Word of Faith" to them to rise up and walk. When nothing happened, he began to exhort them to try to move their legs and he began to pull them from their chairs. They began to fall on the floor, still being exhorted to put their faith to work and begin to walk. They were squirming around on the floor desperately trying to believe and be healed. I will never forget that pitiful sight as long as I live. Not a one of them received the ability to walk. This took place on nationwide television. What a disgrace to the miracle-working power of God. People of God are doing the same thing across the world today, speaking a word that was given to someone else two thousand years ago, and nothing is happening. They are speaking for healing, cars, lands and prosperity, thinking they are rich in the Word and faith, not knowing they are miserable, blind, wretched, poor and naked. Jesus said, "I do only those things I see my Father do, not those things I read in the Old Testament. Jesus told his disciples to heal the sick and cast out devils and they had a marvelous ministry. If He says to you to do the same, then when you speak a Word of healing, healing is what will take place. I know I can be misunderstood here, but you must hear the spirit in these words. If we will take the time to sit in God’s presence, He will begin to speak to us, and then when we do speak the Word it will come to pass. I am not against the "Word of Faith" teaching. It is just that you must hear God yourself and then live, act, speak, and do that which He speaks. When I become full of the Word of God as a living reality, as I begin to hear God speak to me in my daily life, then I take that which He has spoken to me and I speak, and I live, and I center everything around that which God has spoken to me. I become that which I speak. Again, this is the experience of the Word becoming flesh. "As a man thinks in his heart so is he " (Prov. 23:7). Jesus said, "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" (Luke 6:45). Whatever you think in your heart, you will speak out of your mouth, and the creative words that you speak bring to you your experience of tomorrow. The words that you speak can be very powerful. They can work for you either positively or negatively. We must, by the grace of God, have revealed to us the heart that we were given at the new birth. Young Men Have Overcome the Wicked One When we hear a word like this, we can immediately interpret it with the natural mind and think of the devil out there somewhere. The devil outside of you is not the problem. Jesus took care of him at the cross. The Word says, "And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross" (Col. 2:15, NIV). One who has realized the power of the cross and has had their mind renewed to see that the devil is not the problem is on the way to a great spiritual awakening. The devil on the outside of us has been defeated. We have been taught so much the power of the devil that we believe in it and that is what gives it the power. The devil we need to overcome is that carnal mind that was received by the Fall. The wicked one is that rebellion, that consciousness we received at the Fall. It is that consciousness we have of being separate and alienated from God. The flesh, the carnal man, is the wicked one we need to overcome. If the Word abides in you, and you become the Word, then you have overcome the wicked one. This, of course, is a matter of transformation. Your growth from a little child to a young man is a long process. I believe God is speeding up the process in these days, because we are very close to God bringing "many sons into glory" (Heb 2:10). We are very close to God removing the veil cast over all nations (Isa 25:7). The covering cast over America is most deceiving. We are in the darkness and covering of religion disguising itself as Christianity. The system of Christianity is included in that "wicked one" that we must overcome. How many people realize that this beautiful, full of good works, system is a part of BABYLON the mother of HARLOTS spoken of in The Revelation chapter 17? Larry & Betty Hodges, in their publication, The Shofar Letters, issue 2, 1997, say: Some are loathe to leave the stain-glassed cathedrals, the pews and pulpits, the hirelings and hierarchies, the Sunday morning meeting at 10:00 A.M., three songs, an offering and 30 minutes of freeze-dried prepackaged pabulum, and have therefore, in many cases, chosen these very things over the Lord Himself. They do so because they have been made drunk with the wine of the fornication of harlotries. Although espoused to the Lord, their hearts have gone after other lovers. Men who would never be caught dead in a real brothel think nothing of frequenting spiritual houses of ill-repute for the same reasons, though spiritual. Before I continue further, let me make it clear that I am not referring here to those who are still in need of keeping the feast of Pentecost; who still very much need to gather together with others of like precious faith, or of those who come together in the Spirit. I am referring to those who remain in Babylon and refuse to leave its ways, customs, rituals, or ceremonies. Lest you misunderstand who Babylon is, it is all the religious systems, groups, denominations and non-denominational denominations, including Charismatic, Pentecostal, and some home-meetings.

Men who would never

be caught dead in a real brothel

think nothing of frequenting

spiritual houses of ill-repute

for the same reasons,

though spiritual.

It is that which bears the stamp and spirit of the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth! It is Things, men, movements, institutions, organizations, etc. which draw the multitudes after themselves and attach the crowds to themselves. It is the principle of Anti-christ; that which definitely supplants, or intends to supplant Christ. It is an alternative to the whole Christ in man-made Christianity; an imitation life borne and carried on by it’s own momentum. (The Shofar Letters, Larry and Betty Hodges, P.O. Box 728, Linwood, NC 27299) We Must Overcome Bigotry Someone asked me a short time ago, "Why is it that most of God’s people get angry when they are told about the possibility of God saving everyone?" In the Old Testament, the Jews thought that they were the only people of God on the earth. The Jews were very bigoted. When Jesus came they were so sure that the gospel He brought was only for them. They would never have gone to the Gentiles with the gospel. Peter had to have a vision from God to convince him to take the gospel to the Gentiles. Acts tells us, "On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour. And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, and saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common" (Acts 10:9-15). We can see by these verses that God no longer calls any man unclean. In this vision, He was telling Peter that God has cleansed everyone and He is not a bigot. His love and His redemption are for the world, not just a select group of people. Christians are the most bigoted group of people on the earth today. Christians get upset with me when they hear me talk about God being the Father of all and redeeming all and being able to save someone who does not know about Jesus. Even those who claim to know Jesus fight among themselves. Even within their own denominations they argue over doctrinal differences. The Baptists are divided over baptism. The Lutherans are divided amongst themselves. The Pentecostals are divided. These religions are all divided because of man’s carnal interpretation of the Bible. Anyone who sees the oneness of Christ and the Church could never be a part of that HARLOT system. Revelation 17:3 says that she is "full of names of blasphemy". We should not call ourselves anything. Not Baptist, Catholic, Pentecostal or anything else. Paul told the Corinthians, "And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?" (1 Cor. 3:1-4). How could the Word be more plain? Jesus Himself said in Matthew 12:25, "A house divided against itself cannot stand." The Institutional Church could never be a testimony to God because of the division among her. We must drop all bigotry and division. God is our Father and we are one family. You may be a Catholic or Pentecostal, but regardless of your affiliation, you are my brother and I love you and will minister to you. Our Oneness Is in His Life Our oneness is in His life, not in our doctrines or carnal knowledge. A doctrine, no matter how good or correct it is, should never be used to divide the people of God. The Apostle Paul said, "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive" (Eph. 4:13-14). A doctrine held in esteem above fellowship with another person is a wind that will carry you away from Christ. There is a people on the earth today who are coming into the unity of the faith, and they see the futility of the organized church with its forms, programs and rituals. They are not, as some suppose, "Forsaking the assembling of themselves together". They are coming out of Babylon and becoming a chaste virgin unto Christ. These are not sectarian or exclusive. They realize there are precious saints of God in all denominations and groups, but they themselves cannot any longer partake of the HARLOT system that keeps people in bondage. God’s people are beginning to realize that they have one life and one nature. The young men are those who feed on spiritual food and speak the word as it is given by the Spirit. They then overcome the negative things in their life and grow in grace and knowledge until they walk experientially in the kingdom.

Next "The Fathers"

Coming Out of Darkness Part 21 by Gary Sigler

Facebook on Monday, 11 April 2011 at 16:44. Three Stages of Spiritual Growth Part 1 There are basically three stages of spiritual growth in the Christian life, as revealed by the Apostle John, "I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known Him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known Him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one" (1 John 2:12-14). Little Children When we are first born again, we are newborn babies, and it takes some time for spiritual growth. We need the liberty to be babies and little children until we grow up. John says in 1 John 2:1, "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." The ideal is that once you come to know Jesus, "I would that you sin not." But if you do sin, remember you have an advocate with the Father. John is saying here that right from the very beginning we need to realize that God is our Savior. If you are saved, you have a heart for God. When you have a heart for God, deep inside you want to be conformed in His image. So John says, "Little children, I would that you sin not, but if you do, remember that you have an advocate, Jesus Christ the righteous." Little children do not know a whole lot. They need, more than anything, to be properly loved and fed. You do not teach a baby how to be a full-grown man. As parents, we do not expect a whole lot from our little children. One of the great problems in the system of Christianity that hinders spiritual growth is that after we are born again they will not allow us the time to be little children. They expect us to be born again and then start being a spiritual man. Religion condemns all the little children because they are not grown up. Little children are still worldly. They still do many things that a mature person wouldn’t do. The one thing a little child has is confidence in their Father. They never feel like they cannot go to their Father, regardless of what they do. A child always knows that they can go to their Father and receive love and forgiveness. We Christians have a hard time believing that God is good enough to receive us just the way we are. He knows our habits and sins, yet He loves and forgives us anyway. When God called you, you may have been a prostitute or a king. When He called you, He knew exactly what you were and what it would take to transform you. He looks way beyond where you are today and He sees you in eternity fully transformed and walking in the realm of the Kingdom. Romans chapter 8 says that we have been called, predestinated, justified and glorified, all in the past tense. God looks at the finished work. God’s Unlimited Forgiveness Little children you cannot sin more than God’s ability and willingness to forgive. In fact, He has already forgiven you. On the cross, every sin ever committed, past, present, and future, was forgiven. At the cross, sin, the world, the flesh and the devil were taken into death and did not come out of the grave. In God’s eyes, sin is no more. He fully dealt with the sin problem. This cannot be just a doctrine. We need the revelation to see the full redemption that was purchased at Calvary. When we have the light and revelation of God concerning redemption, we will never be condemned again for the areas in our lives that need transformation. There will come a day when the veils will be fully removed from our eyes and we will see that sin is no more and we will be free from it. The fear of sin is what keeps many in bondage to it. I am no longer afraid of sin. I know I still experience it in certain areas, but I no longer fear it. I know sin is a product of the carnal realm. As long as I am not fully transformed, the carnal man will affect me at times. However I no longer fear this, I just continue to seek God and know that as I seek Him, as I touch Him, He will flow into those areas and bring transformation. When you no longer fear sin, it loses power in your life. One of the greatest problems today is that we do not feel good enough to partake of the riches of Christ. We do not see the power of God operating in our lives because we feel that we are not worthy. We do not believe in the simplicity of the gospel. Jesus bore the penalty for our sin and we should not feel condemned, but rather forgiven. We are God’s children, born from above. We have a new nature, but we are still for the most part little children. Because we are still more natural than spiritual, we condemn ourselves for what we do in the flesh. We feel we deserve condemnation rather than God’s forgiveness. We feel, because of our sin and our carnal nature that from time to time rises up in us, that we are not worthy. It would be wonderful if, when we come to God, we could be born a fully mature Son of God, but that just does not happen. God wants to transform us into what He is, and that is a day by day process. The religious ones look at the little children and say, "Look at them, they call themselves Christians and they do all kinds of things that they shouldn’t. They must not be born again." To them, being a Christian is a matter of conduct, of being right and doing right. They do not realize that they need to feed the little children, not condemn them. So precious few ever realize that to change the outward conduct only makes them a better person in the natural. No matter how good you are, it does not give you an entrance into the Kingdom of God. I have witnessed, time and time again, that it is much harder for a good person to enter into the realm of the Kingdom than a bad person. A good person has a hard time recognizing their need for God. If you have followed these messages on Coming Out of Darkness from the beginning, you know it doesn’t matter how good or how bad you are, you still need God to be able to live the Kingdom life. God takes natural men both, good and bad, and transforms them into Sons of God. This is the good news of the gospel. Living in the Kingdom of God has absolutely nothing to do with the natural man. We are not fully transformed yet. There are times when our flesh will get the best of us. There are still times when we say no to the prompting of the Spirit. If you are 95% transformed in the spirit and still have 5% carnality, that 5% will rise up and get the best of you at times. If you do not understand that, you will always be condemned. If you think that because you have been a Christian for 20 years you should not have any carnality, you will always condemn yourself, rather than recognizing it as the flesh and looking away to the sin offering and accepting forgiveness. Again, the penalty for our sin was paid at Calvary. That is why Jesus died and that offering was for all of humanity. He died so that you could find your way back to God. This is according to God’s purpose, which is "every man in his own order". God will bring you into the fullness of His plan for your life. Even though God will bring you fully into His purpose for your life, you still have a part to play in it. That is why it is "every man in his own order". Our actions and responses to God affect our lives, whether for good or bad. The more that we hunger and seek after God, the quicker He can work His will in our lives. If we are not willing, we need to ask Him to make us willing. The choices that we make do play a part in God’s working in our lives. However, we must also understand that it is not a matter of the flesh. We know that the things we do in the flesh do not please God, but we cannot just lay back and do nothing, thinking that God will do it all. The key is that we must seek God. Don’t try to perfect yourself in the flesh, but every day of your life, seek after God. Learn to worship Him and fall in love with Him. There have been periods in my life when I would get so discouraged and downcast that I would lose hunger for God. I have gone for periods when I wouldn’t read the Bible and I wouldn’t pray much, but I never quit being honest with God. I used to drive to a place in my car or find a place in my home every day where I would just talk to God. I have said to God many times, "I do not have the hunger anymore, please help me." I believe that is how I found the strength to keep going on. Most Christians never get beyond the stage of a little child because of condemnation. It is OK to be a child, and you will always be a spiritual child until you realize that it is OK to be where you are today. It does not matter what your problems or hang-ups are. What matters is that you have your eyes unveiled to the fact that the price for your redemption was fully paid. You need to go to God and ask Him to reveal the depths of Calvary to you. You need your understanding opened to the fact that there will come a day when you will fully reveal and manifest His glory, because that is why you were created. You do have a part to play in this. Your choices can hinder your spiritual growth but they will not stop it. Don’t let anyone tell you that you are a puppet on a string. God does have it all worked out according to His purpose, but how long will you wait before going to Him and trusting Him to do in you what you cannot do in the flesh? I have been saying for years that Christians will do everything except take the time to sit quietly in His presence, because they are so busy. If you do not spend time with God, no matter how many good works you do, it does not matter. People may benefit from your good works, but you won’t. You must begin to spend time with God. That is when the veils and the darkness begin to lift off of you. Only God can reveal to you the depths of His love. His love is not a doctrine; it must be experienced. As Christians, we should not know one another according to the flesh, but according to the spirit. There are Christians who have been Christians for many years and are still babies because they have not known these truths. Let’s not condemn the babies, let’s feed them the riches of redemption to release them from condemnation so they can grow. Next "The Young Men"

A Study on The Three Levels of Maturity - Sylvia Pearce,It's original context and its current local church context

My thanks go to Merrill Thompson who has stored all these excerpts over years. This is his Facebook profile if people want more material, and this is how the container looks now.

Below is an MS DOS version, or rather dry left-brain code of the three levels of maturity. By that I mean, the Windows version is to be us! We are the Living letters that Paul writes about in 2 Corinthians 3 This is not to be disparaging about the format below. As we meditate on it it is actually packed with life.

Jesus said the time would come when we would worship "neither on this mountain nor at Jerusalem" . He then went onto say "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Here is an amazing thing when you think about the 3 years Jesus was with His disciples.
Jesus had laid His glory aside. He was functioning purely as we are meant to function. In His case as a container for the Life of the Father within Him. He had also been baptised in the Spirit when He was water baptised. But his disciples were not born again. Not as we know it now. He had not yet breathed His life into them. This could only happen after His body death at Calvary. And the disciples had certainly not yet been baptised with the Spirit. This happened to them some ten days after Jesus returned to His Father at His ascension, to be an exact prophetic fulfilment of the Jewish Feast of Pentecost : The First harvest.

Now Jesus was permitted to endow the disciples with a certain measure of the power of the Holy Spirit that was upon Him. With this power they were sent out to heal, perform miracles and proclaim that the Kingdom had come!
Yet , other than this, Jesus was transplanting His life into his twelve disciples by the power of the Word alone. He did not sit down and read books to them. They did not have His indwelling life that came later. They had received no overpowering release of the Spirit upon them in the form of a baptism in the Spirit experience, which is the believer's rightful due now since Acts 2. It is the Father's good pleasure to give you His Spirit without measure. And just pray that your body container can stand it!!!!
Yet during these three years....none of this. But just by living with Jesus. By His Spirit -filled Word alone penetrating their being, in the form of stories, in the form of timely rebuke, in the form of encouragement, in the form of being eyewitnesses to extraordinary miracles, in the form of learning Jesus pace of life in the Holy Spirit.Also, and this is not talked about much in Zerubbabel quarters, Hebrews 5:7, 7During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered.....

He did not get a soft ride. Because He was the Son.
So , how "grace" people expect to glide into this grace walk as though it is a matter of believing yourself into a few scriptures.And that's it.
John Clarke (The Move) described it like this: "Some days will find you doubled up on the floor in agony. It is like the verse in Revelation which talks about the Word being sweet to the taste when you first hear it, but round about the time it settles on your stomach, it becomes a bitter thing, as the literal Word of God takes hold of your insides and changes you from within out."
Not for nothing the references to the labour of childbirth in scriptures.

This is the birth of the New Covenant in His people.

Beforehand you sing songs about it.

You talk about it in meetings,

You use the phrase in the Lord's Supper. "This is the blood
of my new Covenant."

But one day...it has been written in you. Across your insides.

And you become a living letter to others.
If Jesus then, within three years, by obeying the exact instructions of the Father, by just speaking Word, could move twelve men spiritually from child stage, through young man stage to Fatherhood stage, as expressed in Acts.....

Now the Holy Spirit has been outpoured

Now a peculiar vessel for the maturation of individuals has been birthed :The Living breathing Corporate Body of Christ-


How is it people are still taking 70 years to go through the growth stages?
Well. The meaning of the word "Satan " is opposer.

Satan is opposing the birth of this Manchild in the earth.

This corporate expression of Living letters.

Churches neither know the three stages. Or if they know it, it is mere head knowledge.
It's like reading this wonderful teaching script below....which is the legal language of all our inheritance in the Kingdom.....but it only then remains stored in the left-brain.
We have to eat it. Preferably along with the rest of the local family.
Here is some more on the functioning of the local New Covenant Church.
Chances are, many of you have not been able to experience this so far.

It's not taught in seminaries.
It's not clearly taught by powerful ministries like Morris Cerullo.
It's not taught clearly in Pentecostal churches.
Although denominational churches are starting along the path, having taken on board the Alpha courses, chances are they are not mature in this yet.
This is learned in the Spirit. In relationship with Jesus. Who ,by the way, is still alive! And is currently teaching those who will listen, all over the world, how He wants church done.

The importance of Corinthian Elders by Jack Fortenberry is that how we do leadership is totally rewritten. I used the phrase earlier "glided into". Well instead of gliding into Spirit stuff regarding leadership, all we've succeeded in doing is "gliding into" human tradition, human hand me downs
of what it is to lead. Most of this comes straight out of a skewed pyramid understanding of authority, which comes from the Fall.
Neither is it anarchy!
No leadership in the Kingdom is primarily relationship.
In just the same way that our first experience of it, for good and bad....came through our parents. And just as a good parent is after the maturation of their kids, such that they can go off and run successful independent lives, and pass this onto their kids.....this is actually the Kingdom way of reproducing Christ's Life in our form.



It is no coincidence that coupled with a new wave of the revelation of the Father, which came through what was popularised as the Toronto Blessing in 1994 through the Airport Vineyard Church, but what was always from the Kingdom perspective what it said on the tin :"The Father's Blessing"....well it is no coincidence that coupled with this revelation comes a totally but totally new perspective on how leadership works in the Kingdom. I would firmly counsel everybody to get this book. And no. There is stuff in this book that you will have heard from no one else. So, leadership covered, I want to give a potted version of the local church.
There is transformational power in the local church.

• When working properly, people will be laying the foundations of our new life listed in Sylvia's study below.
• The church will know how to enter the Living Presence of God in their worship. More and more of the congregation will be knowing the secrets of how you live there anyway.
• Learning how you enter a real experience of the Holiest Place together...how to respond to the Holy Spirit as a gathering as He takes you all still deeper (recent examples The New York meetings with Heidi Baker, The Key of David meetings here in Havant, many soaking meetings all over the world
• All the gifts of the Holy Spirit will be increasingly manifest, through the youngest believer to the most mature. Greater care, and love and respect will actually be invested on the younger members, as Paul writes in his Corinthian letter.
• Regular breakthoughs manifest in believer's lives
• The quickest way to learn how to function from the new Life within you
• All believers regularly prophesying and praying into other believer's lives
• A place where you can bring unbelievers who are hungry
• The Body knows how to bring itself forth. The Holy Spirit directs what needs addressing ,when, in a spirit of love, humility, and godly grace authority
• caring for one another's practical needs
• addressing local problems and needs, but not from a basis of those needs - that is humanitarianism - but based on the timing ,instruction and Word of the Lord.
• a place of training of the Authority of the believer. (testimony of prophetic faith declarations which resolved issues within hours/days months - the exposure of the Yorkshire Ripper (hours), the healing of Tony Fitgerald's wife 50 miles away in a hospital bed(same instant), the healing of an all but paralysed girl in the church such that she married and went to Barcelona to live (months), the healing of a son, then his father of a strain of leukaemia(weeks)
• learning how to be Christ to each other
• learning 3rd level laying down of your life to bring forth life in others.
• learning how to call on the Lord together. (See Hebrews 5:7 above)We learned much from the Argentinians who had been battle hardened in the many and various extreme financial recessions through the last decades in Argentina
• learn what it is when the tangible Presence of the glory falls. To rest still in this Presence for minutes /hours together. In the gospels we have examples when a particular Presence came down. For example the phrase"the Lord's Presence was there to heal"

If your local church is not like this, this is our birthright, and we are to give the Lord no rest until this pattern is everywhere in the earth. THIS IS NORMALITY for the believer.

The Three Levels of Maturity
Sylvia Pearce
I John 2:12-14
Little Children
“ I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for His name sake.”
“ I write unto you, little children, because you have known the Father.”
Why do we need our sins forgiven? And how can we know the Father?
The Fall Of Man.
Gen 3:1-15
Result Of The fall:
John 3:19-21-“Light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light.”
Romans 3:10-18-“There is none good, no not one.”
Eph. 2:1-3 “Dead in trespasses and sins,” “the spirit that works in the children of disobedience” and “they were by nature children of wrath.”
Acts 13:46-“Judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life.”
I John 3:10-“Children of the devil.”
John 8:44- “you are of your father the devil.”
Rom. 6:17-“Slaves of sin.”
I Peter 3:19-“Spirits in prison.”
Romans 9:23-“Vessels of wrath.”
Romans 5:12-“Death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.”
The Provision For Our Sins Through Christ’s Subsitutionary Death.
John 3:16-“For God so loved the world that he sent His only begotten Son.”
II Cor. 5:19-“To wit, that God was in Christ Jesus reconciling the world unto Himself.”
Col. 1:14-“Through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins.”
Romans 3:24-25-“Justified freely by his grace, through faith in his blood.”
I Peter 1:18-20-“Redeemed by the precious blood of Christ.”
Heb. 10:12-“One sacrifice for sins forever.”
How is Christ Made Mine?
John 1:12-“As many as receive Him to them gave he power to become the sons of God.”
Acts 16:31-“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved.”
Titus 3:15-“Not by works of righteousness which I have done but according His mercy He saved me.”
Romans 3:24-“Being justified freely by His grace through Christ’s redemption.”
Romans 3:28-“A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
Eph. 2:8-9-“For by grace you are saved, through faith.”
Romans 10:9-“Confess with your mouth, and believe in your heart, you shall be saved.”
How Can I Have The Assurance Of My Salvation?
Hebrews 4:9-10-“There remains a rest, labor to enter in.”
Hebrews 11:6-“For without faith it is impossible to please God.”
The Three Levels of Maturity
I John 2:12-14
Young Men
“I write unto you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one.”
“I have written unto you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the wicked one.”
How do we overcome the wicked one? Our sins are forgiven, but how about victory over sin, Satan, the works of the flesh, and the world?
Victory And Power In Daily Living
Romans 5:10-We are reconciled to God, by His death, but saved daily by His life.
Eph. 3:19-“That you might be filled with all the fullness of God.”
I Cor. 2:10-“That we might know the deep things of God.”
Eph. 1:18-“That you might know the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints.”
II Cor 9:8-“God makes all grace abound towards you that we might have all sufficiency in all things.”
The Provision For Daily Living Is Through The Body Death Of The Cross
Romans 6:6-“The old man is crucified with Christ.”
Galatians 2:20-“I am crucified with Christ, I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.”
II Cor. 5:21-“Christ was made sin, that we might be made His righteousness.”
Romans 6:2-“We are dead to sin.”
Colossians. 2:11-“We are circumcised with Christ, putting off the body of sins.”
Romans 6:3-“We are baptized into His death.”
2 Peter 8:1-“We are partakers of the divine nature.”
Colossians 1:22-“In the body of His flesh to present you holy, and unblameable.”
Hebrews 10:10-“We are sanctified through offering of the body of Christ.”
Hebrews 10:14-“By one offering He hath perfected forever them who are sanctified.”
The Law, Not Sin, The Problem
Romans 7:4-“You also have become dead to the law by the body of Christ.”
Romans 6:7-“He that is dead is freed from sin.”
Romans 6:14-“Sin shall not have dominion over you for you are under grace.”
I Cor. 15:56-“The power of sin is the law.”
How Does This Work Out As Our Experience?
Romans 7:15-“For that which I do I allow not: for what I would that do I not; but what I hate, that I do.”
Romans 7:24-“O wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Why Do We Experience the Bondages and Defeats of Romans 7?
Because not having completely learned, or easily forgetting, the basic helplessness of self, and its only function to be the container of the Spirit, we are constantly assaulted by temptation to be something or do something or not do something. Obey those commands pray more, give more witness more, be more patient, don’t lose your temper, get rid of those evil thoughts, struggle against your lusts, and so on.
The human being is only a receiver and not a producer of righteousness.
John 15:1-You are the branch, not the vine.
Romans 9:22-We are vessels of mercy, but formally vessels of wrath, but always vessels.
I Cor. 6:19-“You are the temple of the living God.”
Romans 6:17-You are slaves of righteousness, formally slaves of sin.
Romans 6:7-“He that is dead is freed from sin.”
The Human Being Has Never Been An Independent Self.
I John 4:6-“He that is in this world, and He that is in us.”
I John 4:6-“Spirit of truth, and Spirit of error.”
I John 3:10-“Child of the devil, child of God.”
Galatians 2:20-“I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me.”
Romans 7:17-“It is not I, but sin that dwelleth in me.”
The Leap Of Faith
Colossians 3:3-4-“Christ, who is my life.”
Galatians 5:24-“In Christ we have crucified the flesh.”
Romans 6:6-“The Old self is crucified with Christ.”
Colossians 3:9 ; Eph. 22-24-“You have put off the old man with His deeds.”
Colossians 3:10-You have put on the new man which is renewed with a new mind.
Soul and Spirit Differences
I Thes. 5:23-“Sanctify your spirit, soul and body.”
Matt. 11:28-29-“There is a rest for our souls.”
Hebrews 4:13-“Sabbath rest for the people of God.”
Hebrews 4:13-“Diving soul from Spirit, joints and marrow, thoughts and intents.”
The School of Faith
Hebrews 11:6-“For with faith it is impossible to please God.”
Mark 11:22-“Have the faith of God, say unto this mountain be thou removed and cast into the sea. And whatsoever you say, you shall have.”
Romans 4:17-“Call the things that be not as though they are.”
Detachments
( Nothing in this life is yours)
Luke 14:26-27—“Hate not his father, mother, wife, children, brethren & his own life.”
Genesis 22:2-“Take thy son, thine only son Isaac, & offer him there a burnt-offering.”
The Life Of Faith
Romans 4:20-“Abraham staggered not at the promises of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what He had promised He was able also to perform.”
Hebrews 11-The great heroes of faith.
The Three Levels of Maturity
I John 2:12-14
Fathers
“I have written unto you, Fathers, because you have know Him, that is from the beginning.” Our life is poured out for others.
John 21:18-“Another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou would not.”
Credentials of an Apostle
John 10:17-18-“Why does the Father love me?” “Because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.” “I have power to lay it down and I have power to take it up again.”
Hebrews 5:14-“He that is full of age has their senses exercised to discern good and evil.”
I Corinthians 4:9-15-“God has set for the Apostles as last as it were appointed to death,” “We are fools for Christ sake, but you are wise, we are weak, we are despised,” “Being reviled, we bless, being persecuted we suffer it, being defamed, we retreat.” “We are made the filth of the world, and the off scouring of all things.”
II Corinthians 1:5-“For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us,”
Works of an Father/Apostle
Ezek. 22:30-“I sought for a man to stand in the gap.”
Colossians 1:24-“I fill up that which is behind of the sufferings of Christ.”
Galatians 6:2-“Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.”
The Call Of An Apostle/Intercessor
Don’t look for your intercession, and when it comes you won’t want it.
Jesus said “Take this cup from me.”
Jonah 1:2-“Arise go to Nineveh,”
Exodus 3:10-“I will send thee unto Pharaoh”
Isa. 6:9-“Go, and tell this people.”
John 1:6-“There is a man sent from God.”
The Cost of an Intercessor
Isa. 54:4-“He bore our grief, and carried our sorrows.”
Isa. 53:12-“He has poured out his soul unto death.”
II Corinthians 1:9-“We have the sentence of death in ourselves.”
II Corinthians 4:8-12-“We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed: we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus might be made manifest in my mortal flesh.”
II Corinthians 4:11-“For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
The Completion and Fruit Bearing Of An Intercessor
II Corinthians 4:11b-“Death works in us, but life works in you.”
John 12:24-“If the seed die, it brings forth much fruit.”
John 15:16-“He has chosen you to bring forth fruit and that your fruit should remain.”
Hebrew 2:10-“Bring many sons to glory”
Little Children,
Young Men,
and
Fathers