Showing posts with label Jacob Song. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Jacob Song. Show all posts

Saturday, 26 April 2014

Jacob and The Angel, Songs by Suzanne Vega and Chris Welch (separately)








"Jacob And The Angel"

The angel came to Jacob
The room began to glow
Jacob asked the angel
Are you friend or are you foe?

The angel never answered
But smote him on the thigh
They wrestled through the darkness
Till morning filled the sky

This thing between us, has wings, it has teeth
It has got horns and feathers, and sinews beneath
Angel or demon, to the truth I am bound, and so
This thing between us must be wrestled down

Jacob held on to the angel,
Who turned to fly, and to flee
He said I must have your blessing
Before I let you leave me

The angel never answered
But smote him on the thigh
They wrestled through the darkness
Till morning filled the sky

And in the light
He knew another name
As he struggled and surrendered
To the next part of the game

This thing between us, has wings, it has teeth
It has got horns and feathers, and sinews beneath
Angel or demon, to the truth I am bound, and so
This thing between us must be wrestled down

This thing between us, has wings, it has teeth
It has got horns and feathers, and sinews beneath
Angel or demon to the truth I am bound and so
This thing between us must be wrestled down.

From Suzanne Vega's latest CD available also as mp3
Tales from the Realm of the Queen of Pentacles
(Yup, that'll be tarot then! Blog editor does not in anyway
encourage the reading of Tarot cards. There is no need
because the Holy Spirit has been sent to tell us all we
need to know)



THE JACOB SONG: Words and Music: © A. Christopher Welch 1988.
There is no easy way
It doesn't matter what you say
But it is possible / For you....
Now Jacob did a runner
To flee from his brother
Got himself caught on a sheep farm
His Uncle was nice
But kept him there twice
As long as he should've been.
He 'faithed' in speckled,and he 'faithed' in striped
His sheep numbered many
but this life he didn't like
Thought he'd do a runner to flee TO his brother
To get himself off of that sheep farm.
Met any angels lately?
Met any men with knives?
Met any angels lately?
Met any men with knives?
Jacob dreamed up a dream
He schemed up a scheme
With his wives he fled by night
So with his wealth and stealth
Thought he'd preserve his health
Rather than face the one appointed.
Met any angels lately?
Met any men with knives?
Met any angels lately?
May give you quite a surprise.
Now the Lord's kinda kind
But it's not in his mind
That we stay in the state that we are
So he rigged up a fight
With Jacob one night
And fixed him up a name transplant
Yes fixed him up a name transplant.
Met any angels lately?
Met any men with knives?
Wild beasts are clawing at your heels
Maybe it's God in disguise.
There is no easy way
It doesn't matter what you say
Its possible..... For you (x 2)
A name transplant
For you.
Additional Vocals: Nicholas +Elisa Daniels. copyright A. Christopher Welch 1988

Peniel - Meaning

I have never heard a full meaning. The Holy Spirit continues to fill us in.
At the moment I am feeling that there is something 1.about this incident and 2. my intention in writing this song IN 1988 that divides me (at present) from an easy relationship with Daniel Yordy, and others that I believe have similarities with him, such as Brad Jersak and Michael Hardin.
The division seems to stem from this.
If you still see separation ....the genesis 3 condition of man down here and God way off somewhere, then forever and a day you will be praying, hoping, somehow that God's angel/s will  mediate....will somehow come and bridge the gap....come and touch us....or  to use the Bethesda incident....stir the waters.

Ed Miller thought in these terms and really relayed his experience of seeking God in the late 40s in Argentina.
He described the spiritual desolation he went through in a fairy tale....where he representing the Bride earnestly seeking her Prince...the bridegroom Jesus, was led out into a wilderness where she ran out of all resources. At her wit's end. in total weakness, she suddenly is aware of her Prince who comes and sweeps her onto His stallion with Him, and like all good romantic stories they ride off together.

In the Old Testament and the New are a whole series of individual stories of how God "gets" His men and women. The Peniel incident is one of the most mysterious. Yet it is impossible to overstress the importance.
Why? History DIVIDED at this very point.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were three consecutive generations of one family that not only were believers, they each pressed on further into seeking God. Peniel marks the culmination of this .
Jacob had already wrestled with the man, the angel, or God in physical form. Genesis 32.
When the man saw Jacob was just not going to let go the scripture says
"he touched the socket of his thigh; so the socket of Jacob’s thigh was dislocated while he wrestled with him.
Then he said, “Let me go, for the dawn is breaking.” 
But he said, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.” 
27 So he said to him, “What is your name?” 
And he said, “Jacob.” 
28 He said, “Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed.” 
29 Then Jacob asked him and said, “Please tell me your name.” 
But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?” And he blessed him there.
 30 So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, “I have seen God face to face, yet my [p]life has been preserved.” 
31 Now the sun rose upon him just as he crossed over Peniel, and he was limping on his thigh."

The guy's socket is wrenched but he's still clinging on!!!! WOW.

The Kingdom suffers violence until now and violent men take the Kingdom by force.

What is your name?
Usurper. Twister. Manipulator. Deceiver. Jacob.

We are forced into face to face mode with God. Well that's the point , we are not forced...BUT IF WE FORCE THE ISSUE....if we really want it....

Jesus is the WAY, the Truth and the Life.
He is the WAY through to the Truth about ourselves and about the holiness of God. In that ugly NON LIFE

moment. When we see our nature...our inner identity full on...our very character....our true agenda of self for self.....
IRONY of IRONIES this is the exact time God births His Life....or unstops His Lifeflow in our inner being, and rivers of Living Water begin cascading out!!!.

THIS IS THE SUBJECT OF THIS BLOG. THIS IS THE THIRD LEVEL.
It is not Abraham's encounters. They were the foundation.

It is not the wells that Isaac dug. Representing the baptism in the Holy Spirit realm. Uncovering new anointings. New waters of the Spirit.

THIS IS A NAME CHANGER.
Where NAME is the Hebrew understanding, and means essential character , essential  PERSON.

In this awful moment  which is exactly related to the end of Romans 7. We see sin in the flesh.

Not the activity sin.
SIN spirit.
In our members.

Rendering us powerless.
And desperate.

The Name change is the realisation that the ONLY LIFE in the Universe is GOD.
We suddenly see through to God.
The devil sells us this fairytale that we, like him can live powered by our "own life", without telling us that it is spirit of wrongdoing which roots itself in us as we fall for the lie of independence.

Even his life is God's life.
Even he is totally deceived.
But it is God's life twisted back in on itself. SELF for SELF. What the Greeks term hubris, or Ego.God's own pure life is self for others love.

For more forensic detail, study the early chapters of Norman Grubb's series "Yes I am".

It is here I want to say something very radical.This is the game changer.
This is is something new.

This is something the Union crowd who formed thenselves around Norman's revelation have yet to see.

Up until now there has been something deeply personal in seeking God's face.

But the scriptures Psalm 110 and Psalm 24 use a shocking phrase which is KEY, and which Daniel Yordy has not yet grasped.

The phrase is:
THIS IS THE GENERATION WHO SEEK THE FACE OF THE GOD OF JACOB.Ed Miller was on his own.
Daniel Yordy has been on his own seeking out the truths behind "the Eyes of Fire"
I was in the Emsworth church and as a church we sought the face of the Lord together. But it wasn't deep enough. You can take that as if I am talking from pride. But you would be 100% wrong. Quite simply I was desperate. No amount of anointing to lead in worship was cutting anything at all. And believe me God had blessed me with much anointing. So I was forced deeper. On my own.

Daniel talks of Asbergers and I have absolutely no idea of the things he has had to face. But as bad as Asbergers is you can still talk about it.
My testimony is not something that can ever be talked about.
Adultery was bad enough ( I as a single) but that was just the beginning as God used a prophet to bring me down to Emsworth.

THIS IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY.

OR EVERYBODY THAT KNOWS....and is now too disgusted to speak.

As more and more come into the RIGHTEOUSNESS of JESUS CHRIST and Him only.
Ian Clayton, Mother Basilea Schlink and others speak of an intense time the Lord takes us through where we actively cover everything...and I mean everything....all figleaves torn off....and we cover everything with the Blood of Jesus.

In the 12 step course devised originally by Jessie Penn Lewis of Keswick Conventions there is the taking of a personal inventory.
There is the NAMING of our NAME....as did Jacob.
For Ian Clayton this meant months of entering the Presence of the Lord and letting the Holy Spirit review every time period of Ian Clayton's life.....and actively he was led to sprinkle the Blood of Jesus over it. After months of this he felt soooooo clean, soooo renewed , a totally new person.

Now as a community forms of such people the Christ Righteousness Forcefield that will be among them shall mean that people will enter and immediately fall before the Lord and repent.

BUT HERE IS THE RADICAL THING....
Some people won't behave in this way, but God in His mercy will increasingly use His collective people to unearth this junk.
Unearth the scrawlings on the inner walls of the Temple as in Ezekiel 8:10.

We will begin behaving as a GENERATION. A NEW GENERATION.

Up until now the only thirdlevellers have been loners. Watchman Nee. Basilea Schlink. Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Ed Miller. Sam Fife.   They have then gathered a people to disciple them.

What I am saying is we as a generation will begin to radically disciple each other.


This is the true third level meaning of the scriptures penned by St Paul in Ephesians.

"The body building itself up in love, joined by that which each supplies (of Christ substance alreadsy inworked in each) once each part is working properly."


When does a part work properly?
The first level? No at that stage, they are learning about basic forgiveness and grace.
The secondlevel? No, this is when the Holy Spirit starts teaching and leading people into the experience corporately of the Holy Place....of learning the basics of the new identity in Christ...

but no...outsode of meetings they are not "fixed there" in their consciousness yet.

NO. THINGS REALLY START TO ROLL IN THE THIRD LEVEL OF GROWTH.

Typically people are not used to FUSED people.
People are used to seeing others after the flesh.

But this is not so applicable if people are fused with Christ in their consciousness.

If like Jesus they are driving moneychangers out of the temple with whips it can nolonger just be assumed that anger is in the flesh. It just may not be.

And this was the path that got me ejected from Emsworth Church, because they too were not prepared for their prayers concerning me to be ever answered.

And this is the problem with Bethsaida type places all waiting rou
nd a pool for an "angel to stir the waters". You see it might just be that the third level man called Jesus turn up and suddenly say....Forget the endless charismatic routines....now I AM HERE....God in flesh and blood. Now do you want to get healed and delivered TODAY.

TODAY is the day of salvation.
Today is the DAY God is squeezing us into.
He is the I AM and TODAY is where He lives.

The shadows flee away....the tussles are over...
Our Name has changed.

We are now Prince of EL
Israel

Prince of God.

YES I AM.

It is nolonger I who live but Christ who lives in me. The life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God.......

Saturday, 9 March 2013

Sneaking out by night....Genesis 31

Genesis 31:20 And Jacob deceived Laban the Aramean by not telling him that he was fleeing. 21 So he fled with all that he had; and he arose and crossed the Euphrates River, and set his face toward the hill country of Gilead.



Jacob Song written by A.Christopher Welch (my official name)1989 and recorded in John Daniels Studio Farlington in 1991 as part of my double CD "Early Harvest"
Key to Lyrics : "angels/men with knives " amalgamates these sorts of scriptures
The Tree of Life guarded by cherubim with swords

Hebrews 4 : the Living and active Sword
The angel coming out against Moses who was not yet circumcised
Circumcision of the heart
The angel coming out against Joshua's presumption that he was in charge
And ofcourse Peniel, Genesis 32






  • Paul Noble

    Yes I think I'm going to contact Peter again
    Ps we've just seen 3 local homeless people get saved and they are now coming to church. All we did was give them a christmas meal and show them some practical help
  • Friday
  • Chris Welch

    Paul let me be quite blunt. I appreciate you and Rohan may not quite believe the same as me...but I like you,Rohan and Derek because I see you as Melchizedek order people. The problem with where you are at is you still all see yourselves as individuals, all doing your bit. Rohan too. If left to his own devices he'll build the most perfect healing pyramid in his name in Leigh Park. Derek has been reigned in by the Spirit and now by faith continues the struggle for clarity of believing in Portsdown...but at least he's not seeking to build his own thing anymore.
    I just see One Melchizedek Order...and I see places like Portsdown floating in and out of it like jetsam on the waves. They feel they have authority to blunder along, without Spirit order, without evangelistic gifting, without any sense of the urgency that comes when a Spirit congregation KNOWS it is celebrating the the Heavenly version of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Portdown meanders around...nobody calls it to attention...they do what they feel , when they feel like it, if they feel like it...but there is not that palpable feeling of anyone being LORD over them.
    Like they'd better jolly well hear what God Almighty is saying or they'll have their lampstand removed.
    Do you see what I mean? All four of us have gifting for them, but they refuse it. Derek's still chipping away. But they need to be called to account for the way they pick and choose who they want to hear. Because it is ALL Jesus. Paul Noble isn't less Jesus. Rohan isn't. Derek isn't and I am not.
  • Paul Noble

    Chris let me be blunt too... I think YOU see yourself as an individual separated from the body of Christ also as none of this would matter to you! I see myself as part of the body in a local expression of church, a functioning member ( this is the problem with Facebook virtual christianity) where I'm rubbing up against other believers who like me still have some raw flesh! Yes God is working in this body but is it down to me - hardly in fact I've had very little to do with it I don't in any way control it even though I am recognised as an elder. Jacky Pullinger I think expressed the kind of Christianity you long for and actually I believe I agree with you actually but I just think you've got to get allot more real in terms of working this stuff out. To be honest I don't care what Portsdown do or whether its 3rd 4th or 5th level what counts is faith working through love else its just gnostic estoric nonsense!!
  • Today
  • Paul Noble

    So what am I afraid of exactly?

    *********************

    This conversation was originated by other factors. Paul Butcher, an elder at Havant Church said that the leadership there were keen to have another session at trying to iron out differences with me. So it's a bit like a conundrum framed within a conundrum. I felt the points raised in the conversation  between Paul Noble and myself were too important to gloss over, and I would like others to learn here because this is a situation repeated in every town all over the earth.

    What situation? Differences between believers. And more specifically differences between age groups and those who believe they are receiving fresh light from the Lord.

    I will talk later about what Genesis 31 means to me and why what I felt was so strong it came out in a 1989 song, having been kicked out of Emsworth Church. But first I want to clarify the phrase
     "The problem with where you are at is you still all see yourselves as individuals".....

    Understanding it as Paul understood it, he was right to stress the need for a corporate manifestation of the Body of Christ. Just writing to each other on Facebook 1. doesn't answer the need for people to actually rub shoulders by living together and 2.No outsider is ever going to see anything, and be convinced by anything if it can't actually work in the real world. As Paul mentioned, they are seeing fruit from having made a Christmas lunch as a church for the building next door which is a kind of home for homeless and addicted people.

     I was meaning something different by the phrase.
    Paul Noble and Rohan Barton both felt misunderstood/unheard by Portsdown Church.
    Rohan is a rough and ready evangelist like Elaine Waterfield and Jackie Pullinger and has little truck with much of the middleclass value systems of Havant Church.
    Both Paul Noble and Derek Phillips have gained immensely from the teachings of Andrew Womack. Derek, for a time left the church out of sheer frustration, but now has returned and is chipping away sharing the revelation God has given him to whoever will listen. Paul and his wife went through incredible frustration when they were learning from Womack and other sources about the two subjects of healing and grace.  I remember Paul spent literally months with his back against the wall in Havant meetings, because he was not allowed to share on these things.

    About the time that Nancy Gilmore gave me a word from Ephesians "Awake O sleeper and christ shall give you light".....coupled with a strange experience of like a kick to the stomach when I read the back of a book recommended by Peter Stott (through Greg Haslam) which had none other than my second pastor on it from 1976....the very one who had described the Door Opening Word of Ern Baxter "Thy Kingdom Come" 1975 as something like "jolly enthusiatic preaching".  This is a similar statement to someone describing the Raising of Lazarus    by Jesus as a "Jolly fine entertainment trick."

    The effect was a Spirit warning about the nature of Havant Church once you peer below the foliage.
    So almost immediately I spoke direct to John Wilbraham, the main pastor and said if I heard him preaching any stuff that just wasn't in the Bible, i would make no bones about pointing it out, and probably in the service!  This used to be common practice in England and is probably how the House of Commons got its present format of two bodies of people correcting each other in no uncertain terms.Looked at humanly, i guess this would seem quite disruptive, so the end product is I have spent the last 2 years or so being told not to speak openly in Havant meetings. They seem to allow a certain amount of the prophetic gift, but the whole thing is extremely vague, and after my last prophecy in November, it was clear I had no voice there, so decided to do the Biblical thing and withdraw.

    I had my "fear of man" ripped off me at Emsworth, so previous to this I have openly expressed my views to the Havant leaders.  Paul and Rohan have kind of slipped away quietly.

    Now if you are just "seeing yourself as an individual" , you go off, pioneer a new church, again posting yourself or yourselves at the head of a new pyramid, which then takes the values you espouse and continues until the next "offspring" start questioning some of the things you are not saying, and if this is never resolved, they then slip away sideways, building yet another work.

    Now, as St Paul says, each new work presents something of the gospel of Jesus to a new bunch, and in this way Jesus is further lifted up and glorified.....but as St Paul says....and as I am trying to say
    THERE IS A BUT..............

    • Nobody reaches full maturity.
    • The landscape gets littered with more and more half-finished works of people. (Jesus warned about others laughing at our "half-built towers")
    • The previous works NEVER get called to account, and get away with murder (sometimes literally) 
    So the real meaning in this context of the phrase
    "The problem with where you are at is you still all see yourselves as individuals".....
    was that Paul was thinking of him just delivering a word to Peter Stott, off on his own, but I've seen them together. Peter is an amazing man of God with anointing similar to Mark Stibbe, and recently quite a similar kind of calling, but he can pull on the charm, and he does so with Paul, while not listening to a Word he or any of us is saying. And time is running out for Havant.



    I don't have "an individual eye". I'm looking at the Melchizedek Order. I'm seeing the sort of Word that Elaine Waterfield, Rohan barton , Derek Phillips, myself and Paul Noble are being used to bring, and watching how not one thing is received. Well God doesn't speak forever.

    The issue for me is not WHO gets to speak what
    The issue for me is to see in the Spirit where a church is at then feed in that which is lacking as I best can hear the Spirit....or best can hear the Spirit through other church members.

    The average local church at present does not receive from all its members. The average local church is immature and behaves in the fragmented way described in 1 Corinthians 12. If there is a full 12 tribes body of truth to be had......or 7 spirits of God.....


    your average church probably functions on a maximum of 4 tribes worth....
    Here for example are things you will never hear in Havant Church:

    • There's no sense of immediacy, of instancy in taking hold of the word. The Israelites fled Israel so quickly they weren't even allowed to leaven their bread for the journey. We too celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread. One meaning is that we respond immediately by faith. Another meaning is that we hear by the Spirit and obey without having to understand it all. Understanding is like leaven. Understanding can be good, but often  our understanding waters down the Spirit revelation to a point where we don't feel we need the Spirit at all. This is a total lie...because only the Spirit Word is real seed, and has life in itself to bring forth life.



    • Some evangelists have managed to survive Havant's more or less anti-evangelistic nature, but most have long since left or been squeezed out
    • Sons of Issachar....or Barry Smith/Grant Jeffrey types don't get a hearing. Havant have no idea how close we are to world government
    • Virtually none of the genuinely God given revelation that we now consider commonplace here on blogs and the internet has filtered through to Havant.
    But nobody is going to learn anything if each successive generation hives off "sneaking away by night secretly".
    One of the main belief systems that change in the third level is to see "everything in God"....
    Even the angel coming out to greet Moses....you remember, when Zipporah his wife screams
    "Moses.....you are a man of blood to me.....Get yourself circumcised pretty darned quick!!!!"

    Good ,bad, indifferent.....Matthew 5 makes it clear that we have an inverse Kingdom. Whhat has the "appearance of bad" this side of the universe....IS GENUINELY WORKING SOMETHING OUT IN THE KINGDOM OF LIGHT....even if it is just the groanings of the woman...the earth....the whole of mankind....for this new creation to birth.

    This is the time of the NEW BREED.
    The THIRD LEVEL OF REVELATION
    which isn't as Paul Noble says...to be gnostic esoteric nonsense
    BUT IS the heartcry of millennia for the Ancient Doors of Psalm 24 to be lifted for the Eternal Kingdom to make His manifest entrance....and FIRST  in the reversal of the curse of Genesis 3 and in a race of manifesting sons.

    Again , why is Jacob significant.
    Jacob is the third Lifetime of God revelation....in the threefold package that was Abraham , Isaac and Jacob.

    BUT WHO IS IT WHO GOT THE NAME CHANGE?  Was it the Abrahamic revelation of faith. Nope.
    Was it the Isaac revelation of wells of Water like wells of the Spirit, the promises of God by faith?
    Nope
    It was Jacob, the deceiver....yet the one who pressed through to the end.....SEEKING THE VERY FACE OF GOD HIMSELF

    This is the generation of those who seek Him,
    Who seek Your face—even Jacob.Psalm 24:6