Impacted by the last chapter of George Warnock's book The Feast of Tabernacles, I wrote to an African evangelist in the UK, but in doing so I am writing to a whole raft of ministry that is passing away as the new thirdlevel ministry dawns.
It is impossible to enlighten another man. All we can do like Jesus is speak in pictures. Even your court hearings are designed to move you internally to better hearing. Evangelicalism and charismatic christianity are two forms of deafness and callous of the heart. Not as deaf as unbelievers but still quite deaf regarding genesis 3 .
The transfiguration is a great picture for us of the difference. Moses and Elijah were picked as representations of the two types of knowing God before we enter into the same apostolic Word the first church had. Your christianity is the Elijah christianity as opposed to the mosaic form of evangelicalism. Both witnessed to the new form of Word Jesus preached which was the total nature of God in Him.
In your type of framework you are always seeing two inside you. A bit of Jesus and mostly you. This form of christianity does crusades and matures others to do crusades but never ever gets out of the wilderness. Nothing really changes from generation to generation. But in Jesus type of christianity we disciple whole nations. Ofcourse I wish you to be successful in the courts by faith......but I know when you get the big payout or merge with some diamond banker you will use it to spread the same incomplete gospel that Morris Benny and Kenneth are preaching and living alongside you will be as unnatural and religious as always only now worse because you will have money to order people around. Yuk.
Here is the key passage George Warnock wrote nearly 70 years ago in his final chapter of Feast of tabernacles. In it he describes the Body invested with Moses role of bringing Law order and judgment and Elijah's role of bringing restoration and power. What I have seen full on is the way that the separation of Word and Spirit so evident in the Church up until this point , must yield to the New Covenant Christianity that Christ was actually bringing and demonstrating one of complete Life Union with the Father, resulting in the effusion of Glory from within....the Unveiling or Apocalypse.
Facebook Note 2/1/16
Until the thirdlevel is here and people know how to meditate on the Word then Word and Spirit remain separate. Brazen altar and Laver remain separate. Inside the covered House.....candlestick remains candlestick and shewbread remains shewbread. Revelation TV remains Revelation TV - largely leftbrain and God TV more the candlestick. But the Word through Smith Wigglesworth remains.....the last church will be a Spirit Word church. The east will meet the west.....in the 9th Eastern Gate of new Jerusalem. How do we know? In the Holiest Place you haven't got a candlestick in one corner and shewbread on a table in the other. It is Christ in His three forms of Word inside us and the pure Shekinah over us in terms of anointing. Thirdlevel is one thing just as Jesus is.....So are we in the world.
CHAPTER 14 - TABERNACLES - THE FEAST OF HIS APPEARING
Full article here
We mentioned in the first part of the book how the observance of the natural Feasts served to illustrate their spiritual application to the Church. Thus when the Feast was observed at the dedication of Solomon’s Temple, we have a type and pattern of the Glory of the Church, and when the Feast was observed in the days of Zerubbabel’s temple, we have a type of the restoration of the Church to her first Glory. Now we come to the occasion on which the Feast was observed in the time of Christ.
Let us recall how that in the plan of God Israel’s Passover was the occasion that God chose for Christ Himself to die as the true Passover Lamb. And again, on that great day of Pentecost, when devout Jews had assembled from all parts of the Roman Empire to keep the Feast--then it was that God poured out the Holy Spirit on His disciples, thus fulfilling the old and establishing the new Pentecost. It is therefore with great significance that we read these words: "Now the Jews’ feast of tabernacles was at hand. His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest." (Jn. 7:2,3.) However, the Lord remained where He was until His brethren had gone to the Feast; and afterward went up "as it were in secret." (vs. 10.) No doubt the Lord intentionally visited the Feast of the Jews "in secret" by way of illustrating a great truth to the Church, the truth of His appearing.
RESURRECTION LIFE FOR US
There is no question as to the fact that one day "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout," and the saints shall be caught away to be with Him for ever. (1 Thess. 4:16.) And again, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." (1 Cor. 15:52.) This is the final victory for the Church, when mortality is clothed upon with immortality, and corruption puts on incorruption. This is the consummation of the Church’s last great victorious event, for then it is that "Death is swallowed up in victory," and the "last enemy," even Death, is destroyed. (I Cor. 15:26,54.)
We are sure of this, however, that the Church is being robbed of her glory in not knowing that there is rapture for her even now, while waiting for Rapture, and there is resurrection here and now while we wait for Resurrection. There is no doubt whatever that God holds many secrets for future revelation concerning the order of events and the nature of the Resurrection. But in this we are confident: before this cherished rapture or resurrection takes place, there is to arise a group of overcomers who shall appropriate even here and now their heritage of Resurrection Life in Jesus Christ. God has placed His only Begotten at His own right hand in the heavenlies, until all his enemies have been placed under His feet. (Ps. 110:1; 1 Cor. 15:25,26.) There He shall remain, in obedience to the Word of the Father, until there ariseth a people who shall go in and possess their heritage in the Spirit, and conquer over all opposing forces of World, Flesh, and Devil. We are not inferring that the saints will go about in glorified bodies. But we are speaking of the saints reaching out and appropriating even here and now in their earthly temples the very Life of Christ, of entering into their heritage in the Spirit, of participating in the Melchizedek priesthood and kingdom, and of living the very spotless, immaculate life of the Son of God Himself in virtue of His abiding presence within.
Let us remember that God is bound by His word and His oath, but He is not bound by the dispensations, by general historical procedure, nor yet by the notions of men. "It is appointed unto men once to die . . .," that is quite true; but even though death is quite general God was free to reach down and translate Enoch "that he should not see death" when this holy man believed for it. (Heb. 11:5.) Nor did it prevent God from catching Elijah up into heaven in a whirlwind, when He chose to do so. (2 Kgs. 2:11.) Nor could it prevent the Lord from extending the life of John the Beloved for two thousand years, if He chose to do so. It was neither Peter’s business, nor ours, nor was it contrary to God’s Word, if the Lord wanted it that way. (Jn. 21:22.) Jesus has promised that He would raise up "at the last day" all those who would believe on His Name. (Jn. 6:40.) There is no question about that. But that did not stop Him from resurrecting Lazarus, even during His earthly ministry. (Jn. 11:44.) Nor did it prevent Moses from rising from the dead somewhat prematurely, as he must have done according to Jude 9. Neither did it prevent the tombs from bursting assunder when Christ died on the Cross, and the bodies of the saints arising and coming into the city and appearing unto many. (Matt. 27:52,53.) God is perfectly free to raise whom He will any time He chooses; to impart Divine Life to whomsoever he will, whenever one shall believe for it; and to translate any one that has the faith for it. Let us not argue with the good-man of the House; is He not free to do as He will with His own? If we have bargained with God for a resurrection at the last Day: are we going to have an evil eye if God in mercy and love imparts His resurrection life to some before the last day?
JESUS CHRIST, THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE
One of the most glorious facts of Scripture, we believe, is this: that the Resurrection and the Life is not a mere historic event, to take place in the distant future,--but the Resurrection and the Life is a Person, even the Lord Jesus Christ who dwells in our hearts. How He yearned over Mary and Martha at the tomb of Lazarus, and sought to inspire faith in their hearts to believe in Him. But they would insist, like the vast majority of Christians today, in believing facts about Him and about God, instead of believing in Him. "I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection . . . I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God....." But all the time Jesus was wanting them to believe that He was the I Am, the answer to their immediate need. A historical resurrection? Of course, they would believe in that. Christ, the Messiah? Why of course, they would believe that. But this kind of faith is not sufficient to bring one into the fulness of sonship, and to a real genuine appropriation of Divine Life here and now. They confessed their faith in the fact that Lazarus would rise again in the resurrection at the last day. But Jesus replied, "I am the Resurrection, and the Life . . ." Resurrection and Life, then, are not merely the attributes of the resurrection, and events which are to take place at the rapture. But the Resurrection and the Life are held out to the Sons of God even here and now.
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live . . ." That was the case of Lazarus, was it not? And did he not live, because he died believing in Christ? And then the Lord continues, "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" (Jn. 11:25,26.) It is certain we do not believe it. O, we might believe it theoretically but not one of us has believed it experimentally, or Divine Life would be surging through our beings. But the promise is there nevertheless, even though we all disbelieve it. "Let God be true and every man a liar." By faith all things are and shall be possible. The very dispensations themselves are but weak barriers and obstacles if men of faith are enabled by the Spirit to reach out and leap beyond them. Enoch did it. So did Elijah. And so shall the Sons of God. The Word of faith shall grip their hearts, and they shall reach out and appropriate the Resurrection and the Life even now in this life. If they do not, Christ never will return to earth. For God hath said, "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." (Ps. 110:1.) And the last enemy is Death!
THE COMING OF THE LORD
There has been a general misunderstanding of the Word of God throughout Christendom concerning the truth of the coming of the Lord; for it is clear as we consider all the Scriptures on the subject, that the Lord’s coming is a spiritual visitation in the midst of His people, as well as a literal and bodily visitation. James therefore associates the bestowal of the latter rain with the "coming" of the Lord: "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he (it) receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." (Jas. 5:7,8.) Notice in this passage how the truth concerning the latter rain is sandwiched between these two statements concerning the "coming of the Lord."
The word commonly translated "coming" in the New Testament is "parousia," which signifies "presence," or "a being alongside." It is therefore used of the coming of men in the flesh, as well as of the coming of Christ. That the word signifies "presence" more than the act of one’s arrival, is evident from 2 Pet. 1:16.17. In this passage Peter describes the glorious visitation of God on the mount of transfiguration as the "coming," the "parousia," the "presence" of Christ. Now Christ had already come in the flesh; the four men had walked together up the mountain; but here was a "coming" of the Lord not previously known. And so he says, "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Notice how the apostle associates the power and coming of Christ with the glory of God that appeared in the hour of Christ’s transfiguration. In fact, the Lord Himself explains that this visitation of the Glory was in reality, the very Kingdom of God. In each of the three accounts where the scene is recorded the story is preceded with the remark: "But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Kingdom of God." (Lk. 9:27.) Matthew describes it as "the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (Matt. 16:28.) Mark refers to it as "the kingdom of God come with power." (Mk. 9:1.) and Peter combines the two statements in the words, "The power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
THE MOSES-ELIJAH COMPANY
The whole transfiguration scene is a beautiful picture of the power and coming of the Lord into the midst of His people in this glorious hour to create the Moses-Elijah ministry. Moses, and Elijah; because this is the day and hour when the old must give way to the new, when death is to be swallowed up of life, when Law must be fulfilled in Grace. And so Moses typifies the old order of Law and of death. Elijah speaks of the new order, of grace and of life. This is the hour known as the "ends of the ages" when the judgments that have been written concerning the Church and the world must be fulfilled on the one hand, and all the glory and power that is written concerning the Church must be fulfilled on the other hand. Hence the Moses-Elijah company: the fulness of God in the midst of His people, to do away with the old and to establish the new. Moses died; Elijah lived. Moses went down into the grave; Elijah went up into Heaven. Moses administered death and condemnation; Elijah in translation administered life and power--and the very mantle that he wore fluttered down upon his servant Elisha, even the mantle of power and life. This is the hour of God’s vengeance upon the earth; but it is also the hour of God’s Glory in the midst of His people.
THE DAY OF VENGEANCE
"For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Lk. 21:22.) Vengeance! How we shrink from the awfulness of the Day! But this vengeance is not only to administer death; it is also to administer life. When Jesus picked up the scroll in the synagogue of Nazareth and opened it to the place which spoke of the anointed Messiah bringing deliverance to the people. He closed the book just before He came to the words," . . . And the day of vengeance of our God." He was reading from the prophet Isaiah, as follows: "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord . . ." (Isa. 61:1,2.) Thus far the Lord read, and then closed the book and gave it back to the servant. (Lk. 4:20.) Why, then, did the Lord close the scroll there, right in the middle of Isa. 61:2? Because thus far was His earthly ministry, and no further. The common explanation is that the remainder of the verse will be fulfilled after the rapture of the Church. Now it is true that the remainder of Isa. 61:2 is to find its fulfillment in the Day of the Lord, when God’s judgments are poured out. But what seems to be largely ignored is the fact that the day of vengeance is at the same time a great day of blessing. Isaiah therefore continues: "And the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; to appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called Trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified." (Isa. 61:2,3.) True, it is the day of vengeance, but it is likewise a day of rejoicing--for it is the display of God’s power and glory. It is therefore vengeance upon the works of the Devil, and that will bring judgment to the disobedient, but rejoicing to the obedient. That is why we read, "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: Behold. your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompense; he will come and save you. Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then shall the lame man leap as a hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert." (Isaiah 35:4-6.) Vengeance? Yes, but to save, to heal, to revive. Again we read, "For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come," (Isa. 63:4.) Vengeance? Yes, but at the same time the "year of my redeemed!"
THE TWO WITNESSES
Such, then, is the ministry of this Moses-Elijah company, We are told that the "two witnesses" shall have the power "to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will." (Rev. 11:6.) "As often as they will."--for the simple reason that they have overcome, they abide in Christ, and their will is the very will of the Father manifested through them. They have the "mind of Christ," so that they minister judgments according to the Spirit of God. It is quite evident that this is the Moses-Elijah company from an examination of the judgments which they administer. Their power is the very same as that of Moses and Elijah: to turn water into blood, to smite the earth with all manner of plagues, and to shut up the heavens that it rain not. They have the fire of the Holy Ghost in their mouth, and that is their protection and power. They are sent forth into the earth to administer God’s power. If there is repentance, there is power to bless; if there is enmity, there is power to destroy. Says Paul, "To the one we are the savor of death unto death; and to the other the savor Of life unto life." (2 Cor. 2:16.) It is the ministry of Christ; but it is the fulness of Christ in His people, Remember what we observed about the number "two"--it signifies Christ in His fullness, in His Body, His people, His overcomers--this "perfect man" created "in Himself" (Eph. 2:15) John further identifies the two-witnesses by referring to a prophecy of Zechariah: "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks, standing before the God of the earth." We mentioned these two olive trees in a previous chapter. In Zechariah we read, "What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? Then said he, These are the two anointed ones (literally, ‘these are the two sons of oil’), that stand by the Lord of the whole earth." (Zech. 4:11,14.) These were the builders of the restored temple, to whom God said, "Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith the Lord of hosts." these are the two "sons of oil," those who live, and move, and walk, and think, and speak, and work in the very realm of the Spirit of the Living God.
ELIJAH’S TWO-FOLD APPEARANCE
The Day of Vengeance, therefore, is to be a great day of restoration. But before there can be real and genuine restoration, there must be destruction: destruction to the works of the world, the flesh, and the Devil. And so there is Moses to destroy, and Elijah to restore. It is noteworthy that in the last chapter of the last book of the Old Testament we read these words: "Remember ye the law of Moses my servant . . . Behold. I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. And he shall turn the heart of the fathers . . ." (Mal. 4:4-6.) Of course, Christ did appear once, in one Man, in the flesh. And therefore we had a partial fulfillment of the Elijah ministry in one man, in the flesh: and that man was John the Baptist. Said Jesus, "Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed." (Mk. 9:13.) His ministry was to prepare the people for Christ’s Appearing. But a great secret in God’s counsels was this: Christ was to appear twice, first in Incarnation, and secondly at the ends of the ages. Now we are awaiting Christ’s second Appearing, this time in power and glory in the saints, in the fulness of His Body. And therefore we can expect not only an Elijah ministry, but the fulness of the Moses-Elijah ministry. Christ’s first Appearing was in the Head only, in one Man. Hence Elijah appeared in one man, even John the baptist--for his spirit and power rested upon him. Now Christ will appear in His Church the Body. Hence the Moses-Elijah company, the fulness of Christ in many.
TRANSFIGURATION GLORY
It is remarkable that the Lord’s declaration concerning the coming of Elijah followed immediately after the Transfiguration experience, when Moses and Elijah had appeared in glory on the mount. The Lord was "transfigured," we are told, and Moses and Elijah "appeared in glory" with him. (Lk. 9:31.) The Glory was Christ’s Glory, and He it was that was "transfigured," but these two men appeared in His Glory. And that, in fact, is exactly what is going to happen when Christ is manifested in the saints; the saints are to appear with Him in Glory! "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." (Col. 3:4.) It is participation in the Transfiguration glory of our Lord Jesus Christ, just as Moses and Elijah appeared in His Transfiguration glory. The Scriptures teach that this Transfiguration is for us.
"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed (transfigured) by the renewing of your mind . . ." (Rom. 12:2.)
"But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed (transfigured) into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." (2 Cor. 3:18.)
The open face is the "unveiled" face. The reference is to the veil which Moses wore over his eyes to hide the glory from the sensitive eyes of the Israelites, when he came down from the mountain. But when he went in to speak to the Lord, he took the veil off. Paul, therefore, exhorts the Corinthians to take the veil off. This is the day and hour of God’s great Unveiling--even the Unveiling of the Sons of God! And as our eyes and hearts and minds become unveiled before God, we are going to be transfigured into the same image! These words are unmistakable in clearness. The same image! And this image is developed and manifested as we partake of His Transfiguration, with minds and hearts and eyes unveiled before the Spirit of God.
What Peter beheld, therefore, on the Mount of Transfiguration was a true picture of the "power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" into the midst of His people in this great hour of His power and Kingdom. But it was just a picture; and when the real meaning of the scene is fully revealed to us by way of experience, it will far outshine any attempt to describe it. The best we can do now is to behold some of these truths as through a glass darkly. We have all puzzled over Peter’s strange suggestion: "Let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias." Apparently Peter was so caught away in the ecstasy of the Spirit that he thought they were observing the real Feast of Tabernacles; and his immediate suggestion, therefore, was to erect a little tabernacle or booth for each of them, as they were accustomed to do at this Feast. It certainly was a foretaste of the real Feast of Tabernacles, for which the saints are looking: but coming to himself Peter realized it was but a vision, and the hour of the Feast had not really arrived.
All the events that transpired at the Transfiguration scene are no doubt very significant, and at the same time largely hidden from our view. However as the Day of His Appearing draws nigh, and the scene is reproduced in its fulness in the Body of Christ, its Glory shall far transcend what happened on that occasion. Still it was a wonderful event, and Peter never forgot its glory. To him that was the real Coming (Parousia) and the real Power (Dunamis) of the Kingdom, "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the Power and Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. but were eyewitnesses of His majesty . . ." (2 Pet. 1:16.) And he used the plural, we, because he was speaking for James and John as well. No wonder Peter, James, and John spoke much of the manifestation of Christ within His people, of the Day-star arising in their hearts, of abiding in Christ, of seeing Him as He is, and of being made exactly like him in the hour of His spiritual visitation in the hearts of His people. That is the hope of the Church. "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him-- for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as He is pure." (1 Jn. 3:2,3.) It is the Appearing of Christ within His people, and their, consequent transfiguration after His very likeness by beholding Him as He is: not by rapture, but by the spirit! ". . . transfigured into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." (2 Cor. 3:18.)
THE SECRET-CHRIST IN YOU
It is significant, therefore, that on the occasion of the Feast of Tabernacles the Lord went up to the Feast "not openly, but as it were in secret." For it is in this very manner that He shall first reveal Himself to the saints. Says Paul, "Even the mystery (secret) which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery (secret) among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." (Col. 1:26,27.) Wonderful secret! That Christ should visit the saints in the last great Feast, and minister His life "in secret" before He is openly manifested!
Christians think it a horrible thing that Christ’s second Coming should be spoken of in this manner. To so many, there is no real Coming of the Lord until He comes visibly, openly, and physically. Why is this? Because to them the only things that are real are the things that they can see. Whereas Paul declares that the things which are most real are eternal, invisible, and spiritual. "While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal." (2 Cor. 4:18.) When a Christian comes to that place where he really appreciates and understands and enjoys Spiritual things, then he can truly rejoice in the fact that Christ is coming back again to be manifested within.
Speaking of this glorious intimacy which He would have with His own, and which the world would not understand, we are told that "Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight." (Lk. 10:21.)
This does not seem good to orthodox religion; but it seemed good to the Father. Paul tells us that God "was pleased to make known" the glory of this mystery, this secret. For it is a secret that is shared by Christ and His intimate friends. "All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him." (Lk. 10:22.) Here is a knowledge of the Father and the Son such as no man can acquire except by revelation. Theology will unveil before the student all manner of facts relative to the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, But here is a knowledge which defies any attempt of man to unravel. It is a knowledge, not about God and about Christ and about doctrines, but it is a genuine knowledge of God and an intimate acquaintanceship with Him.
UNION WITH FATHER AND SON
In John 14 we have a beautiful description of Christ’s Coming unto His own by the Spirit. Let it apply to the rapture, or to Heaven, if you will, for it is our heavenly heritage, even the "heavenlies" that God has placed us in by His grace. But those who will reach out and appropriate this new life, and are initiated into this "secret" of which we have been speaking--theirs shall be the joy and delight of exploring the heavenlies long before they get there.
"Let not your heart be troubled," said Jesus, "Ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you." (Jn. 14:1,2.) Then after much perplexity on the part of His disciples, the Lord explained fully what He meant by Father’s house of "many mansions," and the place which He was going to prepare for them. First of all He shows that it is a spiritual place of union with the Father and the Son, a union so blessed and intimate that, if the Son whom they thought they knew was really apprehended and really known--then they would be in vital union with the Father also. "No man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should (would) have known my Father also . . ." In consequence of this glorious union, therefore, it would come to pass that the beloved disciples would do "greater works" than Christ Himself performed when on earth, because He was returning to the Father; and the vital power and life and union which was His with the Father would then be transmitted to the disciples, and it would become their heritage. So positive and so real and so genuine is this secret life in union with the Father and the Son that Jesus promised without any qualifications whatsoever, "if ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it." In our carnal minds we reason that God could not mean exactly that, because if He did, then men would be asking for all manner of earthly and selfish things, and God would be dishonored, and still duty-bound to grant the request. But the fact is this: Christ has made this promise only to such as know the "secret of the Lord," and are in vital union with the Father through Him. Such a man in such a spiritual condition could ask nothing except what would please the Father, and God would have to hear his prayer. In fact, the believer’s prayer would be the very prayer of the Spirit of God within him. For in this blessed condition we have "the mind of Christ," and we could only think and pray in the Spirit.
Then the matter is solved, for the Lord goes on to explain how all this shall come to pass. When He went away He would ask the Father to send the Holy Spirit to "abide" with them for ever. And it is this abiding experience in the Holy Spirit that constitutes this new life of which we speak. "I will not leave you comfortless (orphans)," said Jesus. "I will come to you." (Vs. 18.)
Jesus said, let us notice, "I will come"--and He was referring to the coming of the Holy Spirit in the fulness of His abiding presence. The Appearing of the Lord in secret in the hearts of His disciples! "Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more, but ye see me . . ." (Vs. 19.)
Notice this also: "Ye see me . . ." Let us remember, as we pointed out before, that the real things of God are not seen with the natural eye, but are seen by the eye of the Spirit. This Coming of the Lord, therefore, is genuine and real to those who can see Him after this manner: in fact, far more real than His physical and bodily appearance to the world. "Ye see me . . . " See Him not in the flesh, for henceforth we are to know no man after the flesh, not even Christ. (2 Cor. 5;16); but see him with the eyes of the Spirit, like Moses of old beholding Him "who is invisible," That Christ is not speaking here of a literal and physical appearance it is evident, for He says, "The world seeth me no more; but ye see me." And why? "Because I live, ye shall live also."
Then notice once again how vital and how glorious this union becomes when we enter into the fulness of this experience. "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." What day? The day of which He has been speaking all through this chapter, the day of this abiding experience in the Holy Spirit. "I am in my Father," He said. We cannot doubt that; we know that the Son is genuinely one with the Father, completely immersed in the celestial glory. But in the same breath He continues, "And ye in me, and I in you." Therefore, if the union of the Father and Son is genuine and exquisite and real and vital and powerful, then the union of the Son and the many brethren is to be just as real and just as glorious.
THE SECRET OF THIS MYSTERY
What is the secret of being initiated into this secret experience? It is very, very, simple; and therefore at the same time very difficult for man to appropriate: because he must simply cast away his life in the natural, that he might find it in the more abundant life of the Spirit. He must lose his life in order that he might find it. He must consecrate Himself absolutely and entirely unto the will of God. "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and We will come unto him . . ." The Coming of the Father and the Son! "We will come . . ." A secret visitation of Christ in the hearts of His people. "And make our abode with him. . ."
MANY MANSIONS
Showing posts with label Transfiguration. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Transfiguration. Show all posts
Saturday, 2 January 2016
Saturday, 29 March 2014
The Facebook Forum
Chris Welch
Imagine how painful Peter James and John would find it relating the Transfiguration on Facebook. Half would claim they were trying to appear spiritual. Michael Hardin would call them gnostics. The scientists would all point to some illusory state caused by psychosis. How hard it has made things now everyone looks out of eyes which mirror bitter and hardened hearts.
Like · · Share · 13 hours ago ·
Chucky Head and Elaine Pedersen like this.
Michael O'Hara "Then answered Peter, and said to Jesus, 'Lord, it is good for us to be here online with you: if you will, let us build here three websites; one for you, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah."
12 hours ago · Like
Chris Welch In Jesus day He had the overview to see He was building lives with Himself...not buildings. Is such a thing possible online? The disciples had all sorts of form of Word coming at them including ,where necessary rebuke....this generation online dont or ...See More
9 hours ago · Like
Chris Welch In Jesus day He had the overview to see He was building lives with Himself...not buildings. Is such a thing possible online? The disciples had all sorts of form of Word coming at them including ,where necessary rebuke....this generation online dont or cant or perhaps are worth more than mere black and white lettering....so anyway we're at an impasse. There is no church online....only a tarty community that tries to be nice to each other....but there is no thirdlevel church offline either yet. One is limited by the media. Offline is limited by paucity of mature Word that Jesus gave. And nope.. I currently have no answer. But clearly without worship and seeing each other move in that context any form of deeper relating is viewed as completely skewy..with a similar accuracy level of perception as an 8year old boy considering why he would ever kiss a girl and get married. People are visual and first Jesus then 12 disciples in Acts 2 modelled their believing......their new consciousness. Doesnt really work online
9 hours ago · Like · 1
Michael O'Hara It IS a "social media" and it's hard to escape that cultural atmosphere. I've been on a few subjects over the years whereby those on it seemed anointed and we sort of "clicked" but very few in many years. Sometimes we are called to speak word (s) and leave it there but we get pulled into a discussion and lose the clarity. (Heavens like Paul said "I am the chief of sinners" in that capacity.
7 hours ago · Like
Chris Welch I have often compared this section of my life to Paul's time in the forum expounding "his gospel". He never did it that way again. I don't think I will. But what it gives you is an extreme crash course in how different people believe. None of us set out to start huge rucouses, we only see our corner on truth. Paul's corner on truth has outlasted every other historical empire as yet because 1. it plumbs the depth of who humans really are and who they are not.2.it lays a foundation of Christ's actual Person and 3.the vehicle which is the only one sanctioned by God to properly propagate the message: THE CHURCH made up of local churches of sold out individuals to the grace of God.
*********************************
Rich Novek
Your Word is a LAMP to my feet And a LIGHT to my path. Psalm 119:105
A lamp is not a flood light, neither is it a 100,000 candle power flashlight. Christ IN us as our lamp provides just enough light to our feet to take the next step.
How else would we ever know what it means to walk by (His) Faith and not our sight?
Like · · Share · 10 hours ago · Edited ·
Breck Rubin, Emmanuel Rendas, Betty Lorine Schwabedissen and 14 others like this.
4 shares
Christie Trabazo Gibson Amen Amen & Amen
10 hours ago · Like · 1
Lori Rockriver Amen
9 hours ago · Like · 1
Merle Rutherfoord-Jones Love it Rich it makes such sense
4 hours ago · Like · 1
Breck Rubin To see Him leading the Way as Provider.
about an hour ago · Like
Chris Welch Here's another difference. The reference to light in the gospels is the one about setting it on a stand...it is not to be hidden. Now in the Spirit I can see two completely different uses of the Light.
For one set of people it is all about having enough light in this world of darkness to be able to function in our agendas. Have a job,a good living, a good house, a good car, pay our taxes...some to relax with....and just to achieve these things requires some Light to get around with. This however is like using a lamppost to see up your driveway. if you are that worried about your driveway, I would suggest a houselight. At least that would be more honest.
The Light of God is a HIGHWAY. It is a HIGHWAY of HOLINESS.
The Light of God is to put out all Darkness on the Earth for all time.For this reason was the Son of God manifest to destroy all the works of the evil one."
It is a totally different agenda.
One person uses Light to just about get by.
The other person sees the Light and believes Jesus words
"The Gates of hell shall not prevail against my congregation."
While I was working this morning I had this phrase go through my brain
"LADIES CIRCLE" CHURCH
Church that satisfies all our homely requirements and keeps the ladies happy.
It is a totally different form of church to the one espoused in the book Wild At Heart by John Eldredge.
I think the Union Crowd are a bit of a Ladies Circle Church.
Fred Pruitt puts up a few roaring lion noises every so often.
I suppose many men long decided about Facebook as a social medium it is a ladies's domain and what else can be expected.
I'm only on here and my blog because any realworld environment was completely closed until 2008.
It comes as agreat shock to me as a bloke who wrote off Facebook from the start as not for us guys....that I'm on here.
Well we've had a bash. But the power of the Jezebel spirit here disguised as kindly women with beaming faces, is pretty strong, and already the men are beginning to look like emaciated waifs who dare not speak above the Politically Correct speech of the Ladies Circle. Even if our generation never make it, and I intend to.....the next generation down will see straight through these women and the result of their version of Gospel Lite. LIGHT.
See LIGHT has a 12 tribe spectrum. And for ladies it is enough for there to be a 6 tribe core agreement. I don't know if it's a man type thing. It DOES SEEM TO BE A THIRDLEVEL THING...but the only ladies I know that can handle anything like 12 tribes worth of spectrum are already in all Christian bookstores.
people like Corrie Ten Boom. Mother Basilea Schlink. Mother Teresa. Whether they can articulate it properly or not, it does seem that built into man's ribcages is the FULL KINGDOM spectrum. Whenever you see churches of largely female congregants, you should steel your self as soon as you enter, especially if you are the one preaching. Hidden behind those welcoming smiles the reason will soon become apparent as the spirit of Jezebel attacks you full on to try and pare down your gospel to creepy crawly worm size, instead of the threshing sledge that is in your chestcavity. BEWARE BEWARE O MAN the LADIES CIRCLE CHURCH.
27 minutes ago · Like
Rich Novek Too late Chris, most Christian men have been completely emasculated by the lie, so what's the alternative?
16 minutes ago · Like
Chris Welch shopwindow mannequins!!!
Chris Welch I actually don't have a problem with women not handling all tribes worth of material, because perhaps that is the wisdom of God in order that they be what they are good at. My problem with women is when their collective agenda closes down the work of God as it advances in this generation. Nowhere is this more apparent to me than in those having the closest gospel to the one in the Bible, namely the Union crowd. Because none of them have the vision of the Church, we are condemned to this slow drip drip, decade long advance. And largely for no other reason than those of this generation who were quicker at picking up Norman Grubb's discoveries happened to be women...but they never completed the job. It seems to be outside the scope of what they can handle or imagine.
49 minutes ago · Like
Chris Welch A good way of discovering what women want in a man is to look at eunuchs or gay men. In the UK we have a fashion stylist called Gok Wan. As he is gay and interested in clothes and high street life, he is the archetype of all that women would seem to want in their males. Kind of like a plaything. A fount of relevant female information. Absolutlely no threat of hankypanky as that is the last thing he wants to do with women!!!
It's very similar online. Christian women want these playthings. Furry little purveyors of Biblical insight and knowhow, plus someone to pray with them in the problems of the week or the odd real crisis's. For years this has been their relationship with pastors. In no unreal sense has it been a scapegoat for their own spouse who is often perceived as a farting, snoring, skiddie producing person who does supply some of the house income, but also has this annoying insight into the psychology of the wife, and she just isn't interested because some of it at least could be negative. So in churches everywhere, the glamourpussies avert their gaze to pastors like Joel Osteen or other Joseph Prince doe eyed candy...especially when they repeat the glorious childhood food of Romans 3 to 5 on a weekly basis. You can see it is infinitely more pleasurable.
But none of it is covenantal relationship. It's brush back my locks Gok Wan, relating.
32 minutes ago · Like
Chris Welch So in short, has facebook worked? Well it is surprising what we have been able to share in only 4 to 6 years, which up until then was absolutely impossible in the larger world, which is so entrenched in the Genesis 3 lie from the atheist in one corner right through to a church as prophetic as Havant and IHOP and Toronto Vineyard and Bethel,Redding.
Are there drawbacks? Yes. Like the manger in the stable, and born with no human proof of a Father...this was not ideal humanly speaking for Jesus when He began ministering. So in the same way, a social medium largely perceived as a gossiphouse for women, isn't the ideal venue for credibility for rolling out the Royal Highway of Galations 2:20 living. Especially when the agenda of most Christian women is spiritually speaking at least (And I have not had any of the other kind...so I must really speak clearly here to protect others) non covenantal. Apart from ladies such as Annalize Mouton who recognise the seriousness of what the Body of Christ is, most other christian women haven't a clue. They are in it for themselves and their small parochial eyed view of the world. The exceptions are magnificent. Like Elaine Waterfield. Most Christian women today just weren't around for when God was rolling out the covenantal vison of Church as community in the 70s. It's a glorified coffeehouse, and Facebook is absolutely superb for breeding this view of what Christian relating is. In the week that I have heard of a man drop dead in the UK after deliberately not heeding an apostolic Word, can I just say that this whole idea of men as Christian playthings is not just false, it could prove deadly. The Bible puts it this way "rightly discern the Body of Christ...for in not doing so are many now sick and some have even died." We are dealing with the House of God. Whether a manger, or Facebook is ultimately the best vehicle...it is the House of God we are dealing with.
Imagine how painful Peter James and John would find it relating the Transfiguration on Facebook. Half would claim they were trying to appear spiritual. Michael Hardin would call them gnostics. The scientists would all point to some illusory state caused by psychosis. How hard it has made things now everyone looks out of eyes which mirror bitter and hardened hearts.
Like · · Share · 13 hours ago ·
Chucky Head and Elaine Pedersen like this.
Michael O'Hara "Then answered Peter, and said to Jesus, 'Lord, it is good for us to be here online with you: if you will, let us build here three websites; one for you, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah."
12 hours ago · Like
Chris Welch In Jesus day He had the overview to see He was building lives with Himself...not buildings. Is such a thing possible online? The disciples had all sorts of form of Word coming at them including ,where necessary rebuke....this generation online dont or ...See More
9 hours ago · Like
Chris Welch In Jesus day He had the overview to see He was building lives with Himself...not buildings. Is such a thing possible online? The disciples had all sorts of form of Word coming at them including ,where necessary rebuke....this generation online dont or cant or perhaps are worth more than mere black and white lettering....so anyway we're at an impasse. There is no church online....only a tarty community that tries to be nice to each other....but there is no thirdlevel church offline either yet. One is limited by the media. Offline is limited by paucity of mature Word that Jesus gave. And nope.. I currently have no answer. But clearly without worship and seeing each other move in that context any form of deeper relating is viewed as completely skewy..with a similar accuracy level of perception as an 8year old boy considering why he would ever kiss a girl and get married. People are visual and first Jesus then 12 disciples in Acts 2 modelled their believing......their new consciousness. Doesnt really work online
9 hours ago · Like · 1
Michael O'Hara It IS a "social media" and it's hard to escape that cultural atmosphere. I've been on a few subjects over the years whereby those on it seemed anointed and we sort of "clicked" but very few in many years. Sometimes we are called to speak word (s) and leave it there but we get pulled into a discussion and lose the clarity. (Heavens like Paul said "I am the chief of sinners" in that capacity.
7 hours ago · Like
Chris Welch I have often compared this section of my life to Paul's time in the forum expounding "his gospel". He never did it that way again. I don't think I will. But what it gives you is an extreme crash course in how different people believe. None of us set out to start huge rucouses, we only see our corner on truth. Paul's corner on truth has outlasted every other historical empire as yet because 1. it plumbs the depth of who humans really are and who they are not.2.it lays a foundation of Christ's actual Person and 3.the vehicle which is the only one sanctioned by God to properly propagate the message: THE CHURCH made up of local churches of sold out individuals to the grace of God.
*********************************
Rich Novek
Your Word is a LAMP to my feet And a LIGHT to my path. Psalm 119:105
A lamp is not a flood light, neither is it a 100,000 candle power flashlight. Christ IN us as our lamp provides just enough light to our feet to take the next step.
How else would we ever know what it means to walk by (His) Faith and not our sight?
Like · · Share · 10 hours ago · Edited ·
Breck Rubin, Emmanuel Rendas, Betty Lorine Schwabedissen and 14 others like this.
4 shares
Christie Trabazo Gibson Amen Amen & Amen
10 hours ago · Like · 1
Lori Rockriver Amen
9 hours ago · Like · 1
Merle Rutherfoord-Jones Love it Rich it makes such sense
4 hours ago · Like · 1
Breck Rubin To see Him leading the Way as Provider.
about an hour ago · Like
Chris Welch Here's another difference. The reference to light in the gospels is the one about setting it on a stand...it is not to be hidden. Now in the Spirit I can see two completely different uses of the Light.
For one set of people it is all about having enough light in this world of darkness to be able to function in our agendas. Have a job,a good living, a good house, a good car, pay our taxes...some to relax with....and just to achieve these things requires some Light to get around with. This however is like using a lamppost to see up your driveway. if you are that worried about your driveway, I would suggest a houselight. At least that would be more honest.
The Light of God is a HIGHWAY. It is a HIGHWAY of HOLINESS.
The Light of God is to put out all Darkness on the Earth for all time.For this reason was the Son of God manifest to destroy all the works of the evil one."
It is a totally different agenda.
One person uses Light to just about get by.
The other person sees the Light and believes Jesus words
"The Gates of hell shall not prevail against my congregation."
While I was working this morning I had this phrase go through my brain
"LADIES CIRCLE" CHURCH
Church that satisfies all our homely requirements and keeps the ladies happy.
It is a totally different form of church to the one espoused in the book Wild At Heart by John Eldredge.
I think the Union Crowd are a bit of a Ladies Circle Church.
Fred Pruitt puts up a few roaring lion noises every so often.
I suppose many men long decided about Facebook as a social medium it is a ladies's domain and what else can be expected.
I'm only on here and my blog because any realworld environment was completely closed until 2008.
It comes as agreat shock to me as a bloke who wrote off Facebook from the start as not for us guys....that I'm on here.
Well we've had a bash. But the power of the Jezebel spirit here disguised as kindly women with beaming faces, is pretty strong, and already the men are beginning to look like emaciated waifs who dare not speak above the Politically Correct speech of the Ladies Circle. Even if our generation never make it, and I intend to.....the next generation down will see straight through these women and the result of their version of Gospel Lite. LIGHT.
See LIGHT has a 12 tribe spectrum. And for ladies it is enough for there to be a 6 tribe core agreement. I don't know if it's a man type thing. It DOES SEEM TO BE A THIRDLEVEL THING...but the only ladies I know that can handle anything like 12 tribes worth of spectrum are already in all Christian bookstores.
people like Corrie Ten Boom. Mother Basilea Schlink. Mother Teresa. Whether they can articulate it properly or not, it does seem that built into man's ribcages is the FULL KINGDOM spectrum. Whenever you see churches of largely female congregants, you should steel your self as soon as you enter, especially if you are the one preaching. Hidden behind those welcoming smiles the reason will soon become apparent as the spirit of Jezebel attacks you full on to try and pare down your gospel to creepy crawly worm size, instead of the threshing sledge that is in your chestcavity. BEWARE BEWARE O MAN the LADIES CIRCLE CHURCH.
27 minutes ago · Like
Rich Novek Too late Chris, most Christian men have been completely emasculated by the lie, so what's the alternative?
16 minutes ago · Like
Chris Welch shopwindow mannequins!!!
Chris Welch I actually don't have a problem with women not handling all tribes worth of material, because perhaps that is the wisdom of God in order that they be what they are good at. My problem with women is when their collective agenda closes down the work of God as it advances in this generation. Nowhere is this more apparent to me than in those having the closest gospel to the one in the Bible, namely the Union crowd. Because none of them have the vision of the Church, we are condemned to this slow drip drip, decade long advance. And largely for no other reason than those of this generation who were quicker at picking up Norman Grubb's discoveries happened to be women...but they never completed the job. It seems to be outside the scope of what they can handle or imagine.
49 minutes ago · Like
Chris Welch A good way of discovering what women want in a man is to look at eunuchs or gay men. In the UK we have a fashion stylist called Gok Wan. As he is gay and interested in clothes and high street life, he is the archetype of all that women would seem to want in their males. Kind of like a plaything. A fount of relevant female information. Absolutlely no threat of hankypanky as that is the last thing he wants to do with women!!!
It's very similar online. Christian women want these playthings. Furry little purveyors of Biblical insight and knowhow, plus someone to pray with them in the problems of the week or the odd real crisis's. For years this has been their relationship with pastors. In no unreal sense has it been a scapegoat for their own spouse who is often perceived as a farting, snoring, skiddie producing person who does supply some of the house income, but also has this annoying insight into the psychology of the wife, and she just isn't interested because some of it at least could be negative. So in churches everywhere, the glamourpussies avert their gaze to pastors like Joel Osteen or other Joseph Prince doe eyed candy...especially when they repeat the glorious childhood food of Romans 3 to 5 on a weekly basis. You can see it is infinitely more pleasurable.
But none of it is covenantal relationship. It's brush back my locks Gok Wan, relating.
32 minutes ago · Like
Chris Welch So in short, has facebook worked? Well it is surprising what we have been able to share in only 4 to 6 years, which up until then was absolutely impossible in the larger world, which is so entrenched in the Genesis 3 lie from the atheist in one corner right through to a church as prophetic as Havant and IHOP and Toronto Vineyard and Bethel,Redding.
Are there drawbacks? Yes. Like the manger in the stable, and born with no human proof of a Father...this was not ideal humanly speaking for Jesus when He began ministering. So in the same way, a social medium largely perceived as a gossiphouse for women, isn't the ideal venue for credibility for rolling out the Royal Highway of Galations 2:20 living. Especially when the agenda of most Christian women is spiritually speaking at least (And I have not had any of the other kind...so I must really speak clearly here to protect others) non covenantal. Apart from ladies such as Annalize Mouton who recognise the seriousness of what the Body of Christ is, most other christian women haven't a clue. They are in it for themselves and their small parochial eyed view of the world. The exceptions are magnificent. Like Elaine Waterfield. Most Christian women today just weren't around for when God was rolling out the covenantal vison of Church as community in the 70s. It's a glorified coffeehouse, and Facebook is absolutely superb for breeding this view of what Christian relating is. In the week that I have heard of a man drop dead in the UK after deliberately not heeding an apostolic Word, can I just say that this whole idea of men as Christian playthings is not just false, it could prove deadly. The Bible puts it this way "rightly discern the Body of Christ...for in not doing so are many now sick and some have even died." We are dealing with the House of God. Whether a manger, or Facebook is ultimately the best vehicle...it is the House of God we are dealing with.
Sunday, 23 September 2012
My Transfiguration Experience - Oliver Bob Lagumen
The Unexpected Change - My transfiguration experience (July 13, 1998)
When I was 16 my Father and Mother broke. It touched me very deeply. I
was the eldest son but I could not relate to how both of them felt about
the situation but I was the most affected of the 3 siblings.During those days until the age 17, my mom did her best to send me to college to enroll bachelor of Music. The age 16, 17 and 18 were my most intimate days of fellowship with the Lord.
During those years I weep a lot, (had suicidal tendencies as the effect of the broken home), pray a lot and sing to the Lord a lot. There was no one at my side to comfort me with the heartaches. When I reached 18, my dramatic experiences with the Lord began.
I was baptized In the Holy Ghost on my mother's birthday while I was walking on the road from my mother's house towards my uncle's farm (where we use to call it - a place of ministry, though it was Babylon then).
My mother had to ask me to quit school so I stopped because she could not afford the tuition fees anymore. But I started to find my joy in the Lord.
He comforted me from all of my sorrows and sadness. At times, I would see amazing bright lights in the stary nights of heaven while I was praying in the midst of the night.
At another time, I got my first laughter in the Spirit and litterally in stead of stopping me from laughing I felt him hold my side as a father would kid his child that I laughed because it did even hurt my ribs, but I couldnt cease from my great laughter in the Spirit to know that THIS IS THE VERY GOD. In those Days I addressed Jesus as My Father, Lord and God.
This was February 1998. And on July 12, 1998, after days of seeking for wisdom, knowledge and the face of the Lord, even the fear of the Lord with fasting and prayer, I went further to tarry one unexpected night. I prayed for the whole evening, but my prayer was just over my head. I felt like the heavens were like brass and my prayer did not pass the roof top.
I went out the door and walked about 200 meters about 3:00+ or 4:00 in the dawn. There, I cried to the Lord and said, "I am a man of sorrows and aquinted with grief". I am an outcast of the earth, earthly - a scum of the earth. Then I picked up a handful of soil and I threw it away.
Then with that I said, "I AM AN OUTCAST" but Lord in the Midst of this, if I found favor before your sight, please let me hear your voice just this once and then no more for the rest of my life. It would be my greater joy if I know that you are there always at my side.
I told him, "Lord, I know you are watching the world and the whole universe, you never sleep all day and all night but you are watching all of us from heaven. I know Im not the only person in the planet, and neither am I the only creature in the whole universe, but I know that you love me and that you will never forsake me in as much as you have watched every little thing in the universe and give attention to them. Therefore I pray that you will reveal yourself to me. I ask that you will focus on me just this time Lord, Just for a very short time. Just let me hear your voice and it would be enough for me."
Then immediately I could feel a presence so cool, so loving, so close yet invisible. I tried hard to cry but I couldn't cry any longer. Then I could understand his words where I hear no words. I find myself talking but now with a difference because I was made to talk by the directive power of his presence. I find that this is the Lord who even dictates my conscious being what to think and what to talk : ).
So I tried to align my thoughts to THIS PERSON WHOSE PRESENCE IS EVERYWHERE who knows even the inward parts of myself and nothing is hidden from him from my past and at this present time. I felt that this God knows me more than I do. And his presence was everwhere I went that would never let me go. Then he asked me, "What is it that you called me for?" Why did you call for me? I said, Lord, I cant believe it, you are here? You cant be here, this cant be you. But Lord you are here. Lord..., but... I have many problems. He told me to innumerate, and I tried to count with my fingers and none of them came to my remembrance. And then I laughed and said, "You just took them away". How can I count?
And then he laughed at me saying: "I took them all from you because this is what I want you to be". I want you to be happy. I want you to always think of me and to always have faith. And then he asked me, "do you know how much I love you?" I remembered Moses and the big guys whom I admired as well as the prophets and the apostles in Bible days (and I think, could I be counted in that love among them?). Then I said, how much do you love me Lord? And who are you Lord?
He told me: I died on the cross for you. Can you measure the depths of the sea? I said no Lord (and at that moment he showed me the sea). Deeper than that is my Love for you. Can you measure the extent of heaven above? (then he showed me a glimpse of its heights), I said no Lord, he said, higher than that is my Love for you. Can you measure how wide is the universe? (And he showed me a glimpse of the endless universe) I said no Lord, he told me wider than that is my love for you. In all of these questions, he showed me a glimpse of them all - the universe, the sea, and the physical heaven.
And then I said to him, Lord, I can't still believe that this is you. Please take off this unbelief from me. And he knew what I was thinking, and so He told me: "Can the Devil talk to you like this?" Does he have power to do like this kind of fellowship with you? Then I remembered: "The hills melt down as wax at the presence of the Lord". But I did not know what I was talking about. And then I said, please forgive me of my sins Lord Jesus. And then He told me: "As far as from the east is from the west, so have I removed your transgressions from you. And I have forgiven you from your sins. You are clean through the words that I have spoken to you.
So I said to him: "Lord, this is my greatest problem, please take this CARNAL MIND FROM ME." I know you have power to do this. He never answered me at that. And he seemed silent for a moment. (And I could not yet recall what exactly he did tell me at this moment). But there was this great comfort especially when I would like to ask more and more questions they are most readily answered. And then the most amazing thing was the clear remembrance of scripture and especially THE EXPERIENCE OF KNOWING WHAT HE IS ABOUT TO SPEAK AND TO KNOW HOW THAT HE KNOWS WHAT I WAS ABOUT TO SPEAK BEFORE HE OR I COULD EVER FOLLOW TO DISCUSS IN WORDS. I could hear his thoughts in the same way that he hears mine that to speak by the lips becomes a matter of choice because OUR MINDS CAN COMMUNICATE MORE CLEARLY AND MORE UNDERSTANDABLE THAN THE WORDS IN OUR LIPS.
And a greater joy seized me. And I told him, Lord I must go leave now and sleep. I need to rest.
Then the Lord told me, are you sure you want to leave me now? I said, yes Lord. I know you'll gonna be there for me everytime I need you. I believe it. Are you happy then about this? I said, Yes! Is this because you can tell people about this? I said "YES"! So are you happy about this? I said Yes! I feel how that even this Lord was so humble and I was playing a bit with my a little human pride and "WE BOTH KNOW THIS". But I sensed that there was something he had in mind REGARDLESS OF THIS which he has never told me but I can only think that it had to be something greater and very important for him.
Then he told me in what seemed like a very sad tone: "I have something I want to tell you. There are yet so many things I need to discuss with you". But of course, if you wanted to leave, I could bless you and be there beside you and yes you can always call for me and I will answer you. I will bless you and comfort you in times of your troubles and in your time of need. Then I said to Him, Lord I really must go now, I feel sleepy. Its almost day. I must now go. Then he told me, "I still have so many things to show you". But I was already walking towards the house where I was staying (which was the one we used for fellowship) but The Lord stayed behind me. Although He was invisible, I knew he stayed behind me.
Then I heard him within my spirit saying: "Call unto me and I will answer thee, and show thee Great and Mighty things which thou knowest not".
And for the last time I heard the Holy Ghost talk to me saying: "DO YOU REMEMBER THE DIVINE APPOINTMENT?" I said, Yes Lord, I remember. Then I stopped walking and He said, "THIS IS YOUR DIVINE APPOINTMENT!" And I said to myself, if this is the Divine Appointment, I must not miss this. This was the one I read about in Derek Prince's Book on the foundational series. This is the Lord. This is my Divine Appointment! The Spirit bore witness with me that I should not miss this time. So Like John on Patmos who heard the trumpet Voice of God behind himself and turned to see the voice, I TURNED TO MEET MY LORD AND MY GOD.
And having turned, I WAS CHANGED in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, (IN A FLASH) I saw myself clothed in white raiment, shining with brilliance and glory that even my skin was shining with radiance of beauty and I was walking as A NEW MAN with NEW CONSCIOUSNESS and NATURE. I had a beautiful body and travelled at the speed of thought disappearing from once place and appearing in another. And I ran and shouted: "I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE I BELIEVE!" AND EVERYTIME I SHOUT those words, my voice became bigger and bigger, more mature in tone each time they were spoken.
Then immediately, SCALES FELL FROM MY EYES, and I COULD SEE BY THE SPIRIT side by side with the things that I see in the flesh but the things of the flesh becomes less important and my attention shifted to that of the things of God and of the things that matters to God. I touched one of the tress, but I could still touch the tree - IT WAS A YOUNG TREE. And it was a proof that I was still in the flesh. But there was an inner personal force and power and energy greater that seemed to draw my attention (WITH NO SPOKEN WORD) but there was an invitation TO COME IN And it caught my attention again!
And I shouted once more but with a new word saying: "THIS IS THE OPEN DOOR! THIS IS THE OPEN DOOR!" And I was amazed that I could now talk in English in perfect vocabulary where I could hardly do or even think before. But I also remembered my younger brother sleeping at home. But my attention was caught by THE VOICE with no spoken words.
And there was an inner call to enter. And I had not sensed any difficulty to respond to that VOICE WITHIN ME THAT CALLS ME TO COME (But there were no words that can be heard with my natural ears) but There was only AN Irresistible FORCE AND POWER calling me Nearer and I shouted to my brother and told him in the Spirit: "BROTHER, I WILL COME BACK TO YOU, I PROMISE TO RETURN TO YOU, BUT I MUST NOW MEET MY FATHER".
And as soon as I entered in through that INVISIBLE PORTAL IN THE SPIRIT my voice became more mature and mature than the first, more BASS IN TONE THAN THE FIRST - A voice which I have never at any time in my life has ever heard or which can be produced anywhere in the earth. AND AS SOON AS I HAVE CENTERED MY ATTENTION TO HIM WHO WAS CALLING ME, HE WAS THERE ALL AROUND ME AND WITHIN ME AND I SAID: "F-A-T-H-E-R I'M H-O-M-E"! I heard those words coming from my lips so effortless, with THE GREATEST EMOTION AND EXPRESSION OF INTIMACY LIKE I NEVER FELT AND EXPRESSED BEFORE.
And Immediately I SHOUTED WITH THE VOICE: "I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA, THE BEGINNING AND THE END. I WAS HE WHO DIED AND ROSE AGAIN AND I AM ALIVE FOREVERMORE!" And a GREATER GLORY WAS GIVEN TO ME - EVEN AS I SPOKE, I BECOME THAT WHICH I SPOKE - EVEN THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA WITH ALL CERTAINTY WITH NOT EVEN A HINT OR SHADOW OF DUALITY!
I saw glory within myself and without myself which I could not describe in words. And my voice turned to be "LIKE" THE TONE OF THE FATHER'S VOICE and it was as the sound of many waters and I felt so much Love and So much Loved with a kind of Love that is ETERNAL LOVE!
Then I saw many things that happened to myself which mostly I could not remember but one of them was that I SAW MYSELF WEARING THE MANY CROWNS OF A KING IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD and the clearest remembrance I can remember was that I was THE SON OF GOD - as The Only Begotten of the Father, Full of Grace and Truth and Power and So much One with God, So much One with The Father. There was no personage of the Father Nor the Need for the Voice of the Father for He was within me and I was within Him and HIS VOICE WAS WITHIN ME.
There was Power and Great Glory indescribable which I saw within and witout myself. The Mind of That Son, The Vision of that Son, The POWER OF THAT SON and ALL OF THE SON was WITHIN MYSELF! I could feel my presense was everywhere my thoughts would reach or think, whose boundary is only THE REALM OF THE FATHER. Whenever I think of a place, I was at that place. There was nothing which are at the reach of my thoughts that I was not there. I could sense that I have multiple minds all active within me (as strange as it may seem) yet interconnected at the same time. And I felt that I was more than and bigger than my visible glorious expression of the body. I felt, heard and seen myself because I WAS OVER MY BODY IN THE REALM OF THE SPIRIT AS GOD's SON AND WAS ONE WITH THE FATHER WHO WAS WITHIN MY SPIRIT BUT ALSO OVER MY SPIRIT. As the Father is Pleased to reveal Himself to the Son, The Son sees the Father IN THE SPIRIT, and as the Father wills to HIDE HIMSELF FROM THE SON EVEN IN THIS REALM OF THE SPIRIT, THE SON CAN DO NOTHING ON HIS OWN BUT FULLFILL THAT WILL OF THE FATHER IN GREAT JOY AND A GREAT SENSE OF PURPOSE!
THE UNEXPECTED CHANGE
I REALIZED HOW BIG AND HOW GREAT THE FATHER WAS! I knew there was A REALM WITHIN HIMSELF AS HIMSELF WHICH WAS SO GREAT AND HE SHOWED ME (WITH NO WORDS) BUT ONLY THE TRANSFERENCE OF HIS MIND INTO MY MIND HOW THAT I WAS BEGOTTEN BY HIM IN THE BEGINNING AND WAS ALWAYS AT HIS SIDE. It was a perfect fellowship and communion with him and I can only glorify HIS NAME. And there was also what seemed like sparks of light going all around my body as a part of my body and so much indiscribable but VERY ACTIVE ENERGY ALL OVER ME. You could feel that you were a LIVING ELECTRICITY WITH ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY IN THE REALM OF THE SON! I can only term it Glory. The colors I can remember are blue, and colors of that which seemed like fire, a blend of Gold and/or yellow and white and many things I can not now remember or describe.
Then I could recall speaking: "FATHER RIGHTEOUS ARE YOUR JUDGEMENTS... AND VERY SIMPLE WORDS LIKE: "BEAUTIFUL, YOU ARE HUMBLE AND KIND..., RIGHTEOUS BEYOND COMPARE OMNIPOTENT..., LONG SUFFERING FATHER". And many mysteries (which were not mysteries then) but which mysteries (or simply my inability to remember) I can not now recall. Though I know that was the Holiest of All, I was still further Coming into the Reality of The Realm of THE ULTIMATE POWER OF GOD - HIGHER THAN MYSELF WHO WAS THE MANIFESTATION OR EXPRESSION OF THE POWER AND LIFE AND THE REALITY OF THE SON. I could sense that there was even grander waiting in the purpose of God and Within Himself than who or what I am and I knew that it was THE FATHER.
And though I knew I was eternal and have existed from the beginning before time and have seen how that I was there with him when He Created the universe by the Word of His power. And that we were together at the time of its creation THERE WAS SOMETHING OF HIMSELF THAT MADE ME APPRECIATE HIMSELF SO MUCH THAT IT IS EVEN MORE IRRESISTIBLE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, EVEN MORE IRRESISTIBLE THAN THE REALM OF THE SON, AND THAT REALM IS THE REALM OF THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD OF THE FATHERHOOD OF GOD HIMSELF AT THE LEVELS HE CHOOSE TO MANIFEST THAT REALM TO HIS SON. But then suddenly, this realm was opend to me, there was a portal totally incomprehensable to the Son. A portal of Total Union and PERFECT ONENESS OF LIFE and it seemed to mean NO RETURN TO THE FORMER STATE. [And at this writing, my conviction is that THIS IS THE REALM IN HIMSELF TOGETHER WITH ALL THE SAINSTS AND THE SONS OF GOD FROM AGE TO AGE OR EVEN ALL OF THE AGES WHICH IS: "GOD-ALL-IN-ALL" AND that it is only a matter of willingness TO BE SWALLOWED UP OF THIS LIFE IN UNION WITH THE PLEASURE OF THE FATHER'S OWN WILL that we can be given entrance to this great COLLECTIVE REALM OF THE DEITY which is the ORIGIN OF ALL ENERGY, SPIRIT AND MATTER AND ALL CREATION.]
And then all of a sudden, I was reminded of the earth, and for this joy that I have seen within Myself and HIGHER THAN MYSELF for the GREATER GLORY THAT AWAITS - EVEN THE GLORY WHICH IS THAT OF THE FATHER, I PLEADED HIM at the REMEMBRANCE OF THE EARTH SAYING, FATHER, SHOW ME BACK THE VEIL TOWARDS THE EARTH. [And we all know that THE VEIL WAS HIS OWN FLESH - EVEN THE FLESH OF THE SON OF MAN!] I suddenly realized while on earth, how great and how glorious and how high was that power and force and might and energy and strength of the Living God where I was lifted up by the COUNSEL AND PLEASURE OF HIS OWN WILL alone compared to the STATE OF THE EARTH where even the purpose of why I came back or had to come back I could not recall but at this [present time I could not even truly believe 100% wither or not I am a part of this great ministry of the Sons of God but could only sense that at least perhaps this is the will of God that I came down from heaven in order to come back to heaven that just as JESUS SAID, so it might be true for each and everyone: "I GO UNTO THE FATHER". To let it come true or not, only depends on the Father and The Father ALONE! But that ALSO, GOD WILL BRING FORTH HIS MANY SONS UNTO GLORY BY THE MERE SPEAKING OF THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST IN UNION WITH THE HEADSHIP OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST in this life or in the afterlife BECAUE IT IS MY DEEPEST FAITH THAT EVEN THE SONS OF GOD SHALL ALL COME INTO THE UNITY OF THE HEADSHIP OF THE SON OF GOD - EVEN THE HEADSHIP OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST].
And immediately, For a reason that He alone knows, I was lowered back as a human being gradually. It lasted about 20 minutes before the Glory was taken off from my body like a garment that was taken up and you could feel how heavy was its weight but you were enabled to carry such heavy weight of glory until it was gradually taken off from the sole of my feet to the top of my head.
But yet after that I felt THE OVERWHELMING JOY AND SO GREAT EMOTION that I could shout it so loud but because the day was breaking and for the sake of the Neighbors that might hear me, I controlled my voice. But I really did praise HIM FOR THE GREAT GLORY OF JOY THAT FILLS MY HEART. I loved it all. The last thing that was taken from me was the PERFECT VOCABULARY OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE AND THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE MYSTERIES OF GOD AND THE AUDIBLE MASCULINE VOCAL SOUND OF THE NEW MAN - Even the Son of Man.
I said before it was taken, and I knew we had an agreement which even that agreement I could hardly remember. But it was a promise of that MAN JESUS CHRIST - THE GLORY WHICH I PUT ON and this man that I am [WHERE THE BORDERLINE OF CONSCIOUS SEPARATION OR LOWERING DOWN IN VIBRATION WAS OBVIOUSLY TAKING PLACE]. It was like something on the concern of overcoming (because you could think multiple things and multiple thoughts at the same time). But if I could remember well what was the last statements I've said which he confirmed, it was something like this: Lord, If my people/brethren and parents/mother and "kins" in the flesh will see me or hear me in this, they will not be convinced that it is I myself because of this power and mind and voice. Please take this from me and restore it back to me at a later time (where there is an opportunity).
And immediately, it was all taken from me and while I spoke in Englesh in the Spirit, I found myself talking in Cebuano in my hearing and I could hardly understand or speak again the English words I just spoke and could even hardly remember the things I just experienced. He took some of the most wonderful recallection of it, but just left within me some evidence that I have indeed seen THE GLORY OF THE LORD within myself and in my outer body.
But I went on with Joy to my mother's house, for I was walking on the Road and it was now around 5:00 in the morning. I waited for around 3 months (or three weeks [I could not remember it well due to short memory]) before telling it to anyone. The first one I told about it was my brother, then my mother. and then relatives and the church.
That time, I wanted to start to write about the experience but I had no vocabulary of the English language nor did I possess any writing skills. I was afraid to mispell my words but more than that, I could not find the words to express or describe the experience in a more understandable way and also found it too many to recall and to write down what I just witnessed and experienced within myself in the Reality of the Realm of the Son of God.
So far dear sister Sharon Healey, Mike Parsons Sr. with Marrissa Parsons, Cyril Mcalpin, Andre through Sledge Embassy, Gerri Bolton, Patrick Parisi, Susan Driver Slay, Chris Welch, Cindy Ledford and all of you who are my BEST OF THE BEST OF FRIENDS IN FB, even to my dear sister and mother Sharon Tucker and brother Griff Thompson, this was my experience which influenced me a lot as to why I am all the more convinced about THE POWER OF SONSHIP and the Manifestation of the Sons of God and THE DESTINIY AND MYSTERY OF GOD HIMSELF THAT AWAITS ALL OF US WHICH IS ALL-IN-ALL!
I hope that at least this will give all of you courage in your walk in God seeing that the Day of The Lord is fast approaching dispensationally for mankind. Let us therefore encourage one another to walk in Love, and to comfort each and everyone with this hope.
For he is the rewarder of all them that deligently seek Him. And please pray that the Lord will comfort me from my infirmities and sorrows and that much courage and GRACE with The Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation from the Almighty Father will BE GRANTED TO ALL OF US FOR OUR BUILDING UP INTO THE UNITY OF THE FAITH AND THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SON OF GOD INTO A PERFECT MANHOOD OF THE HEAD AND BODY OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST COLLECTIVELY AND INDIVIDUALLY AND DISPENSATIONALLY.
May this serve as a testimony for the true overcomers in the churches and among the company of the Sons of God.
Know that you are always in my heart together with All saints and especially, Brother Mike Parsons who is a very close friend and a true FB BROTHER but also A HEAVENLY BROTHER.
I declare blessing from Him who sits on the Throne and from the Lamb by the Revelation of His Life through the Unveiling of Jesus Christ with Much Grace and Fullness of Truth. May we all love the GLORIOUS APPEARING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.
In His Love,
Bob
Friday, 5 February 2010
So if Christ has done it all - what, to quote Watchman Nee , shall this man do?
We're having a crucial discussion on Facebook along the lines of this post's title.
Ern Baxter discussed similar things, but more in terms of the common belief that as Jesus is coming back, we surely, just tell who we can about Jesus, and apart from that sort of kick around watching things get worse and worse waiting for our bus trip home.
I always remember his phrase in Thy Kingdom Come Kansas City 1975...
This has paralyzed the church for centuries!!!!
As you read this discussion....what do you think? If you read Peter Stott's message on Psalm 24 you can see he has very clear ideas about what we are doing on earth.
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Wessel Wessels (Rom 8:29) God knew what he was doing from the very beginning. He decided from the outset to shape the lives of those who love him along the same lines as the life of his Son. The Son stands first in the line of humanity he restored. We see the original and intended shape of our lives there in him.(Heb 1:3a)This Son pe...rfectly mirrors God, and is stamped with God's nature. He holds everything together by what he says-See more
Tues at 07:08 · Comment ·UnlikeLikeYou, Andrea Lynn, John Madden, Mankwe Clement Phukubje and 12 others like this.
Chris Welch What I see now is life is a series of doors in exactly the same way as it was for Jesus. If we walk in Him, we take these doors that lead onto the sort of life He lived. Without Him in our life we routinely miss these doors, and then get very disappointed with life, because we think....is this all there is? It isn't all there is....we just missed all the clues by living in our delusive sense of selfhood, and not recognizing Him in us.
Andre Oosthuizen Good thinking Chris.
Tues at 09:19Wessel Wessels They call it revelation knowledge, it is in this way that God reveals Himself to us in many ways, Amen my Brothers!!!
Tues at 09:22Mike Daniel Chris - I DO like your illustration, while at the same time rejoicing that in God's perfect love and sovereign foreknowledge, He uses both the doors I take AND the ones I miss to bring me into greater intimacy & dependence with Himself. The difference is just that the door I take is in deliberate cooperation and participation with His plan & ...
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indwelling life, whereas the one I miss is His plan at work FOR me, but sadly WITHOUT my participating (yet) with Him.
So, where Jesus' participation (& therefore experience of joy, rest, peace, sufficiency, security, signifance, acceptance, etc.) was total, my participation (& therefore EXPERIENCE of each of these) is limited by walking in the flesh instead of abiding in Christ.
Tues at 17:24 via Email reply
Chris Welch yup Mike...that's a good summation of our record on the subject:The Bible. Kadesh Barnea was very serious for the lost generation though....although in the long plan of things...it only held things up. Whenever we live as Christ as me though...it's not simply a right choice , it seems to unlock things in another dimension entirely. And when we ... See moreutterly utterly fail like David in the Bathsheba episode...if we're ruthlessly honest about the whole thing, allowing those figleaves to be pulled right away....then, again God seems to snatch us up again into this"other dimension". In David's case he unlocked levels of worship that we're still trying to catch up with thousands of years later in the whole church. So in His grace it is a win win situation, though devastating to our pride.
Mike Daniel That's interesting, Chris. I disagree on a certain issue, though. David certainly did nit unlock levels of worship that we are in any way constrained from at any time. Nor are we pursuing a different dimension or reality in our walk or relationship with. I read Eph. 1 as saying we already have every blessing in Christ. I read Peter's words about His divine power having already given us everything necessary for life and godliness. My response then is not to achieve a new level of anything, but walk in the fullness of what is ALWAYS available to me in Christ.
ridiculously graced...
-mike.
http://StoneLife.org... See more
(Sorry for typos - Sent from my iPhone
Wessel Wessels Amen Mike we live in the reality of an accomplished work, we entered God's rest and we also now rest from all our own efforts and attempts to try and please an already pleased God. God is not resting because He is tired no but He is resting in the perfection of an already accomplished work in Christ, therefore this mystery which was hidden for ages... See more and generations but now revealed namely Christ Jesus in us, is the only hope of realizing the Glory or "DOXA" of God's original foreknowledge which was a mystery to man due to the fall and the ignorance that followed it, but now we have the mind of Christ so that we may know what the riches are of what God already bestowed upon us in Christ Jesus, now we only need to come to the knowledge of a fullness of what already is ours, so God is calling man all over to repent from their own way of thinking and exchange their ignorance for the truth which is God's way of thinking, and you will realize then that this is something which we as man had nothing to do with, it was all God's idea from the beginning and therefore there is nothing that we can add to perfection, it is an acceptance of a death that we as man died with Christ 2000yrs ago and were co raised into a new life with Christ therefore our very lives are now hidden in Christ in God, we are in agreement with God, that the testimony which He testified about His Son is the truth and that He gave us eternal life and this eternal life is in His Son, which is now the very essence of our lives...There is only one door and that door is Jesus Christ Himself and no one goes to the Father but through the one door which is Jesus, for He said I am the vine and you are the branches, he that abides in me will bare much fruit for without Him we can do nothing, the Adamic man expired, man died to an old inferior might be perhaps right kind of life, we are the new generation that God had in mind and came and planted Himself therefore we are His offsprings, God's peculiar people, kings, priests and ministers of the reconciliation and revealers of the mysteries of God, we are the new creation man that's got only one mission and one only and that is to do the will of the Father through Christ who is our life. He is the fountain of Life and in His light we see the Light.
Tues at 20:35
Chris Welch For 1800 years the gospel lived side by side with slavery in the Earth unchecked. From the time of the Cross the truth was out there! We are all One in the New Adam. There is no place for Mike Daniel to be my slave! But it wasn't until this truth was unlocked by the intercessory action of John Newton and William Wilberforce, that the whole thing ... See morestarted to fall like a pack of dominoes, first here, then the States. That is the spirit in which I am speaking. You are speaking eternal truths, I am speaking of historical invasions of God's realms into ours. You are speaking of the train leaving at the main station, I am speaking of the trains arriving on Platform 4. And unless you continually walk with the glory shining out of your body, I would suggest a moment like the Transfiguration was a time when an earthly carpenter was manifesting a different dimension.
"David certainly did nit unlock levels of worship that we are in any way constrained from at any time" He certainly did and no we're not constrained by them....because they were so huge...we seem to have a hard time catching up...even in our charismatic times. It is plain in Acts about David being a type for us. But it is ofcourse understood when Paul later speaks of Abraham and David as types, they are but shadows of the greater who is Christ.
Guys, I am seriously disturbed that I even have to write this.It's like the evident grace revelation you have needs a bit more digestion.
Mike Daniel Oh, my friend. What a great heart you have! But David and John Newton had no more to do with those revelations of our flesh and God's glory than Peter caused the transfiguration! No, just like on that mountainside, God reveals His grace - in direct conflict with our flesh - according to His good pleasure, not our unlocking, uncovering, undoing, ... See moreor revamping in any way. And as for the trains - His finished work has brought them all back home - their is no where left for them to go. All that remains is for us to allow Him to show us (not gain for ourselves) all the ramifications of being safe in the terminal of His finished work! Sadly, our charismatic days speak more to our desiring edification than glory by grace, but that is another debate for another day. His glory has not not been diminished by our flesh nor is it revealed by our efforts, but all is working solely by His perfect timing and sovereign will (Eph. 1) that by His unfolding grace to us, He would be glorified through us. The New Covenant Economy is one of walking in what we already have and what He's already done - all His requirements met; all His rewards delivered - in the Person of Christ.
You are loved!
Wed at 15:05
Chris Welch Not as "separate beings" no....it was your Saviour and mine living directly through them to turn these historic keys..."making up what is lacking in His afflictions". This is how church works.
Wed at 16:00 ·
Mike Daniel Yes - we must be available for His revelation and to participate in what He's doing, but the more we live out of and teach a paradigm of what we must do to experience what God has, the more we lead in performance and merit. As long as we are trying to turn the keys, we will continue to experience being on the wrong side of the door. In Christ, all things have ALREADY been opened - we must walk then in faith by grace alone.
Wed at 16:05Mike Daniel ...and Church "works" by an infinite God revealing Himself through the plurality of finite beings who walk in availability by the sufficient grace of His finished work.
Wed at 16:06Chris Welch "As long as we are trying to turn the keys, we will continue to experience being on the wrong side of the door. In Christ, all things have ALREADY been opened - we must walk then in faith by grace alone."
It is important to see when Jesus said to Peter, after His bold confession, "I give you the Keys of the Kingdom." that when Peter turned the ... See morekeys to let 3000 into the Kingdom for the first time, it was not an add-on to his salvation.He was not the wrong side of the door.He was not "trying" anything, he had been given this specific task to do. It was complete grace, and he knew it....because if anyone shouldn't be turning those keys it was Peter.
Was he adding to Christ's work? Nope. Was he declaring Christ's completed work. Yup. Was Wilberforce taking away from Christ's declaration of total freedom by being used to stop slavery? Nope. If Peter hadn't turned those keys would 3,000 have been saved? Probably some would....but maybe the majority wouldn't. Does this make Christ's total complete work invalid just because He required Peter to use the keys?
Who is the One who has unlocked all obstacles for all time?Jesus. Who is it who has to obey Christ to see the finished work manifest? We do. Who is we? We, as struggling Christians trying to add to Christ's work? Nope. Christ's work is already complete in heaven? Who has to enforce this victory on earth according to Revelation 12? We do...by the Blood of the Lamb,by the word of our testimony and by laying down our lives even unto death. Does this buy us salvation. Nope. Who is we? Independent selves, born again yet struggling to do the works of heaven?Nope. People who are dead. Yes. People who now live by the faith of the Son of God, by the Christ who lives within them. Who is doing the work? Difficult to tell. When you eat a Hershey bar, can you separate out the Hershey bar from your innards? Nope. You and the Hershey bar are one.
Wed at 20:15 ·
Chris Welch Christ suddenly angered a whole host of grace message people who'd loved it all until then. He said "Unless you eat Me and drink My blood you will have no life in you?" He was talking fusion. Loads left that day. After fusion, like the Hershey bar it's difficult to tell anymore between the believer on earth and the Christ He has just noshed. There ... See moreis no dividing line. What disturbs me about you feeling you have had to write and "put me right"....is that you obviously see a dividng line. Focussing on Christ in the heavens is great for starters. But not for opening doors here on earth. For that you need to know within yourself that you are dead. That you are fused. If you are still seeing dividing lines, you will not be turning any keys, but it will be given to the next generation who Jesus has just had for His lunch!
Wed at 20:23 ·
Mike Daniel Chris, clearly I've offended you, and I am really sorry, Brother. I love your passion for God and His word, and realize that you stand wholly and irrevocably uncondemnable before Him, so we are definitely on the same side of faith. I do not want to divide.
I do disagree with some critical points in what you've shared, but have no need or desire to "put you right" but only to edify and encourage in the Truth as I have been sharpened so many times. If you (or anyone reading all this!) would like to see a fuller response I'd be happy to send a direct message to you with some of those points (having written it out, I've thought better of posting it here!) :)
You are right about one thing (more than one, actually) - I will NOT be turning any keys ...but resting on His finished work, fixing my eyes upon the Finisher of my faith, and focusing my heart and mind where I am seated in Him with God.... See more
Thanks for sharing your heart authentically with me, Brother!
ridicuslously graced...
-mike.
Wed at 22:25
Mike Daniel Bunch of folks have asked that I post those "last thoughts", including Chris, so, reluctantly...
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Chris - I'm very sorry that I've come across as having to "put you right" by anything I've written. I praise God that you, having put your faith in Christ, are completely and irrevocably uncondemnable (Rom. 8:1), and I don't mean to speak any critical word of judgment or condemnation. My hope is only to sharpen a brother even as I am so often sharpened - as we are mutually edified by the Truth.
I don't want to play tug-a-war over any issue with a brother, but want to agree with you on a couple of points and ask a couple of questions. First - love that you are saying you're not adding to Christ's work. Also - love that you're using Scripture for doctrinal defense. I especially love your citing of Christ's blood and flesh. I do disagree with a few issues as you've described them, but I may misunderstand your points, and certainly don't want to get into a semantic debate if that's all it is.... See more
Christ's flesh and blood seems to me to speak clearly of His provision - having already provided all things for life and for godliness (2 Pet. 1:3). However, I definitely agree we have an inseparable union with Christ. We must receive His provision to have life, but that is a receiving act, not an achieving act. We don't do anything to receive it, but acknowledge it by faith - it's a choice, not a behavior. Jesus himself said the only work of God we must do is "believe upon the One whom He's sent."
I don't see the correlation between the keys Christ promised Peter and what happened at Pentecost. Clearly, Jesus DID intend to illustrate something in "giving keys" but I believe this to be the principle of Christ's identity and Peter's co-identification based on His understanding of who Jesus is. This principle - upon which Christ will build His Church (again, jesus doing the building) - is I believe the crux of all our entry into heaven, namely, knowing Jesus as God's Son and being identified by our relationship with Him as a recipient of grace. I don't see any evidence (but I'm open) to the keys having anything to do with Peter's behavior then or later, and this seems to contradict some of Peter's own statements in his letters.
One statement concerns me greatly: "Focussing on Christ in the heavens is great for starters. But not for opening doors here on earth." This seems dangerous to me - I would only ask that you prayerfully consider the implications of this statement. Hebrews says, "Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the Author AND Finisher of our faith..." He initiated and will finish all things He has designed for us. Colossians 3 directs our focus again, "Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God" Praise God I died! Again - have to agree with you there! Now my life is in Christ alone. All of His glory through His Church will be by His grace to us for His glory through us.
Do we need greater revelation? YES! ...to understand all we ALREADY have in Christ's finished work. Paul wanted to know Christ more (Phil 3), and for us to know His love more (Rom. 8), and for His Church to have revelation of what is ours from Him (Eph 1). But it is all revelation of His finished work, not our unlocking new works or blessings He has withheld to date.
I debated with myself about sharing so much - concerned that it undermines my desire not to quarrel with you. I find a greater burden though in my heart - that to share love is often to share truth, especially with someone with such passion and desire for God. Please forgive me if I've overstepped your desire for clarifying conversation.
Yesterday at 22:31
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Chris Welch today
Brilliant reply.And so loving.We will just have to draw a line on Peter I guess. His was a unique gift from Christ never ever to be repeated. He got to announce that the Kingdom was now open for the first time to men. Nobody can ever be "the first" again. I would urge everyone including me to prayerfully consider the steps in Peter's life. Things like how God honours boldness and revelation and confession. God sorts out our inner stuff later. And boy, was it sorted! So here was a man brought to the right place and the right time in Acts 2 in much fear and trepidation, yet at the same time a kind of pure boldness in the Spirit. This whole cycle of events is worth taking deep into our beings.
You are right to point out that we should ALWAYS be fixing our eyes on the things above. I am writing a kind of shorthand there which can be misconstrued as....done that let's move on to works now.
No, it seems to work like this. In Ephesians we see a progression. As believers in God's school as opposed to the religious systems of men we spend at least 2 chapters or a third of our Christian experience doing NOTHING but focussing on Christ and our new position in Him. This is comparable with Romans Ch3-6. It seems we do nothing else and as believers we get a lot of flack for it. "You're NOT doing anything!!!" people cry. But because Christianity is an inward seeing, layer upon layer, like French polish...and NOT a left-brain seminary course....God has us in this bit for as long as He feels is necessary...THEN while living in Ephesians 1-2, and Romans 3-6, on our insides, the next phase is to get our believing working in 3D laboratories called family, work and friends...believers and unbelievers...This is Ephesians 3,4 and 5.
But nowhere have we moved outside of our continuous inward seeing of Ephesians 1 and 2 and Romans 3 to 6.
On Facebook we have to use shorthand...but the casualty is clarity. So naturally you thought I was moving on from ever looking at Jesus.
What happens after this is we begin to see Jesus clearer and clearer in absolutely everything that is going on. We begin to see what Jesus meant by "seeing what the Father was doing"...only for us it is seeing what Jesus is doing.
In terms of meetings, this is the key for moving in miracles. Jesus used to say..."Aaaah...I see the Presence of God is here for healing...who wants to be healed?" The phrase that is in the Bible is when Jesus saw that God was present to heal.
These Ephesians and Romans processes are outlined in the articles Merrill Thompson and Nancy Gilmore are sending out. The whole book of Norman Grubb’s entitled “Yes I am” is linked to also on my blog for download. If that’s too long, track down Romans 6-8 by Norman Grubb. It’s the same subject but more potted. More about keys and how the earth is given to the sons of men to either bind up or unlock is here in Peter Stott's series on psalm24.
http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2009/02/lift-up-your-heads-o-ye-gates.html
Having driven Ben to school I feel to commend you on stressing the finished work of Christ. The reason Rob Rufus is having to spend about 5 years teaching nothing but grace in an alien law-filled environment of Hong Kong is entirely correct in the Spirit.
Churches all over America are run by seminary trained individuals that have gone through a left-brain training mill of knowledge and they wonder why after spending 2 weeks a year teaching a left-brain version of grace, and 50 weeks on its outworking....why their Christians never grow.
We only grow by revelation. They themselves were never told it was an inward religion. The left-brain does not handle grace as a subject too easily, any more than it understands Christ in us the hope of glory and questions of love and being loved. The left-brain was just not equipped to do that.
Christianity in this way is condemned to failure in the west. The whole way it is run is doomed from the start. Praise God for people like you being raised up.
Ern Baxter discussed similar things, but more in terms of the common belief that as Jesus is coming back, we surely, just tell who we can about Jesus, and apart from that sort of kick around watching things get worse and worse waiting for our bus trip home.
I always remember his phrase in Thy Kingdom Come Kansas City 1975...
This has paralyzed the church for centuries!!!!
As you read this discussion....what do you think? If you read Peter Stott's message on Psalm 24 you can see he has very clear ideas about what we are doing on earth.
Wessel Wessels (Rom 8:29) God knew what he was doing from the very beginning. He decided from the outset to shape the lives of those who love him along the same lines as the life of his Son. The Son stands first in the line of humanity he restored. We see the original and intended shape of our lives there in him.(Heb 1:3a)This Son pe...rfectly mirrors God, and is stamped with God's nature. He holds everything together by what he says-See more
Tues at 07:08 · Comment ·UnlikeLikeYou, Andrea Lynn, John Madden, Mankwe Clement Phukubje and 12 others like this.
Chris Welch What I see now is life is a series of doors in exactly the same way as it was for Jesus. If we walk in Him, we take these doors that lead onto the sort of life He lived. Without Him in our life we routinely miss these doors, and then get very disappointed with life, because we think....is this all there is? It isn't all there is....we just missed all the clues by living in our delusive sense of selfhood, and not recognizing Him in us.
Andre Oosthuizen Good thinking Chris.
Tues at 09:19Wessel Wessels They call it revelation knowledge, it is in this way that God reveals Himself to us in many ways, Amen my Brothers!!!
Tues at 09:22Mike Daniel Chris - I DO like your illustration, while at the same time rejoicing that in God's perfect love and sovereign foreknowledge, He uses both the doors I take AND the ones I miss to bring me into greater intimacy & dependence with Himself. The difference is just that the door I take is in deliberate cooperation and participation with His plan & ...
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indwelling life, whereas the one I miss is His plan at work FOR me, but sadly WITHOUT my participating (yet) with Him.
So, where Jesus' participation (& therefore experience of joy, rest, peace, sufficiency, security, signifance, acceptance, etc.) was total, my participation (& therefore EXPERIENCE of each of these) is limited by walking in the flesh instead of abiding in Christ.
Tues at 17:24 via Email reply
Chris Welch yup Mike...that's a good summation of our record on the subject:The Bible. Kadesh Barnea was very serious for the lost generation though....although in the long plan of things...it only held things up. Whenever we live as Christ as me though...it's not simply a right choice , it seems to unlock things in another dimension entirely. And when we ... See moreutterly utterly fail like David in the Bathsheba episode...if we're ruthlessly honest about the whole thing, allowing those figleaves to be pulled right away....then, again God seems to snatch us up again into this"other dimension". In David's case he unlocked levels of worship that we're still trying to catch up with thousands of years later in the whole church. So in His grace it is a win win situation, though devastating to our pride.
Mike Daniel That's interesting, Chris. I disagree on a certain issue, though. David certainly did nit unlock levels of worship that we are in any way constrained from at any time. Nor are we pursuing a different dimension or reality in our walk or relationship with. I read Eph. 1 as saying we already have every blessing in Christ. I read Peter's words about His divine power having already given us everything necessary for life and godliness. My response then is not to achieve a new level of anything, but walk in the fullness of what is ALWAYS available to me in Christ.
ridiculously graced...
-mike.
http://StoneLife.org... See more
(Sorry for typos - Sent from my iPhone
Wessel Wessels Amen Mike we live in the reality of an accomplished work, we entered God's rest and we also now rest from all our own efforts and attempts to try and please an already pleased God. God is not resting because He is tired no but He is resting in the perfection of an already accomplished work in Christ, therefore this mystery which was hidden for ages... See more and generations but now revealed namely Christ Jesus in us, is the only hope of realizing the Glory or "DOXA" of God's original foreknowledge which was a mystery to man due to the fall and the ignorance that followed it, but now we have the mind of Christ so that we may know what the riches are of what God already bestowed upon us in Christ Jesus, now we only need to come to the knowledge of a fullness of what already is ours, so God is calling man all over to repent from their own way of thinking and exchange their ignorance for the truth which is God's way of thinking, and you will realize then that this is something which we as man had nothing to do with, it was all God's idea from the beginning and therefore there is nothing that we can add to perfection, it is an acceptance of a death that we as man died with Christ 2000yrs ago and were co raised into a new life with Christ therefore our very lives are now hidden in Christ in God, we are in agreement with God, that the testimony which He testified about His Son is the truth and that He gave us eternal life and this eternal life is in His Son, which is now the very essence of our lives...There is only one door and that door is Jesus Christ Himself and no one goes to the Father but through the one door which is Jesus, for He said I am the vine and you are the branches, he that abides in me will bare much fruit for without Him we can do nothing, the Adamic man expired, man died to an old inferior might be perhaps right kind of life, we are the new generation that God had in mind and came and planted Himself therefore we are His offsprings, God's peculiar people, kings, priests and ministers of the reconciliation and revealers of the mysteries of God, we are the new creation man that's got only one mission and one only and that is to do the will of the Father through Christ who is our life. He is the fountain of Life and in His light we see the Light.
Tues at 20:35
Chris Welch For 1800 years the gospel lived side by side with slavery in the Earth unchecked. From the time of the Cross the truth was out there! We are all One in the New Adam. There is no place for Mike Daniel to be my slave! But it wasn't until this truth was unlocked by the intercessory action of John Newton and William Wilberforce, that the whole thing ... See morestarted to fall like a pack of dominoes, first here, then the States. That is the spirit in which I am speaking. You are speaking eternal truths, I am speaking of historical invasions of God's realms into ours. You are speaking of the train leaving at the main station, I am speaking of the trains arriving on Platform 4. And unless you continually walk with the glory shining out of your body, I would suggest a moment like the Transfiguration was a time when an earthly carpenter was manifesting a different dimension.
"David certainly did nit unlock levels of worship that we are in any way constrained from at any time" He certainly did and no we're not constrained by them....because they were so huge...we seem to have a hard time catching up...even in our charismatic times. It is plain in Acts about David being a type for us. But it is ofcourse understood when Paul later speaks of Abraham and David as types, they are but shadows of the greater who is Christ.
Guys, I am seriously disturbed that I even have to write this.It's like the evident grace revelation you have needs a bit more digestion.
Mike Daniel Oh, my friend. What a great heart you have! But David and John Newton had no more to do with those revelations of our flesh and God's glory than Peter caused the transfiguration! No, just like on that mountainside, God reveals His grace - in direct conflict with our flesh - according to His good pleasure, not our unlocking, uncovering, undoing, ... See moreor revamping in any way. And as for the trains - His finished work has brought them all back home - their is no where left for them to go. All that remains is for us to allow Him to show us (not gain for ourselves) all the ramifications of being safe in the terminal of His finished work! Sadly, our charismatic days speak more to our desiring edification than glory by grace, but that is another debate for another day. His glory has not not been diminished by our flesh nor is it revealed by our efforts, but all is working solely by His perfect timing and sovereign will (Eph. 1) that by His unfolding grace to us, He would be glorified through us. The New Covenant Economy is one of walking in what we already have and what He's already done - all His requirements met; all His rewards delivered - in the Person of Christ.
You are loved!
Wed at 15:05
Chris Welch Not as "separate beings" no....it was your Saviour and mine living directly through them to turn these historic keys..."making up what is lacking in His afflictions". This is how church works.
Wed at 16:00 ·
Mike Daniel Yes - we must be available for His revelation and to participate in what He's doing, but the more we live out of and teach a paradigm of what we must do to experience what God has, the more we lead in performance and merit. As long as we are trying to turn the keys, we will continue to experience being on the wrong side of the door. In Christ, all things have ALREADY been opened - we must walk then in faith by grace alone.
Wed at 16:05Mike Daniel ...and Church "works" by an infinite God revealing Himself through the plurality of finite beings who walk in availability by the sufficient grace of His finished work.
Wed at 16:06Chris Welch "As long as we are trying to turn the keys, we will continue to experience being on the wrong side of the door. In Christ, all things have ALREADY been opened - we must walk then in faith by grace alone."
It is important to see when Jesus said to Peter, after His bold confession, "I give you the Keys of the Kingdom." that when Peter turned the ... See morekeys to let 3000 into the Kingdom for the first time, it was not an add-on to his salvation.He was not the wrong side of the door.He was not "trying" anything, he had been given this specific task to do. It was complete grace, and he knew it....because if anyone shouldn't be turning those keys it was Peter.
Was he adding to Christ's work? Nope. Was he declaring Christ's completed work. Yup. Was Wilberforce taking away from Christ's declaration of total freedom by being used to stop slavery? Nope. If Peter hadn't turned those keys would 3,000 have been saved? Probably some would....but maybe the majority wouldn't. Does this make Christ's total complete work invalid just because He required Peter to use the keys?
Who is the One who has unlocked all obstacles for all time?Jesus. Who is it who has to obey Christ to see the finished work manifest? We do. Who is we? We, as struggling Christians trying to add to Christ's work? Nope. Christ's work is already complete in heaven? Who has to enforce this victory on earth according to Revelation 12? We do...by the Blood of the Lamb,by the word of our testimony and by laying down our lives even unto death. Does this buy us salvation. Nope. Who is we? Independent selves, born again yet struggling to do the works of heaven?Nope. People who are dead. Yes. People who now live by the faith of the Son of God, by the Christ who lives within them. Who is doing the work? Difficult to tell. When you eat a Hershey bar, can you separate out the Hershey bar from your innards? Nope. You and the Hershey bar are one.
Wed at 20:15 ·
Chris Welch Christ suddenly angered a whole host of grace message people who'd loved it all until then. He said "Unless you eat Me and drink My blood you will have no life in you?" He was talking fusion. Loads left that day. After fusion, like the Hershey bar it's difficult to tell anymore between the believer on earth and the Christ He has just noshed. There ... See moreis no dividing line. What disturbs me about you feeling you have had to write and "put me right"....is that you obviously see a dividng line. Focussing on Christ in the heavens is great for starters. But not for opening doors here on earth. For that you need to know within yourself that you are dead. That you are fused. If you are still seeing dividing lines, you will not be turning any keys, but it will be given to the next generation who Jesus has just had for His lunch!
Wed at 20:23 ·
Mike Daniel Chris, clearly I've offended you, and I am really sorry, Brother. I love your passion for God and His word, and realize that you stand wholly and irrevocably uncondemnable before Him, so we are definitely on the same side of faith. I do not want to divide.
I do disagree with some critical points in what you've shared, but have no need or desire to "put you right" but only to edify and encourage in the Truth as I have been sharpened so many times. If you (or anyone reading all this!) would like to see a fuller response I'd be happy to send a direct message to you with some of those points (having written it out, I've thought better of posting it here!) :)
You are right about one thing (more than one, actually) - I will NOT be turning any keys ...but resting on His finished work, fixing my eyes upon the Finisher of my faith, and focusing my heart and mind where I am seated in Him with God.... See more
Thanks for sharing your heart authentically with me, Brother!
ridicuslously graced...
-mike.
Wed at 22:25
Mike Daniel Bunch of folks have asked that I post those "last thoughts", including Chris, so, reluctantly...
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Chris - I'm very sorry that I've come across as having to "put you right" by anything I've written. I praise God that you, having put your faith in Christ, are completely and irrevocably uncondemnable (Rom. 8:1), and I don't mean to speak any critical word of judgment or condemnation. My hope is only to sharpen a brother even as I am so often sharpened - as we are mutually edified by the Truth.
I don't want to play tug-a-war over any issue with a brother, but want to agree with you on a couple of points and ask a couple of questions. First - love that you are saying you're not adding to Christ's work. Also - love that you're using Scripture for doctrinal defense. I especially love your citing of Christ's blood and flesh. I do disagree with a few issues as you've described them, but I may misunderstand your points, and certainly don't want to get into a semantic debate if that's all it is.... See more
Christ's flesh and blood seems to me to speak clearly of His provision - having already provided all things for life and for godliness (2 Pet. 1:3). However, I definitely agree we have an inseparable union with Christ. We must receive His provision to have life, but that is a receiving act, not an achieving act. We don't do anything to receive it, but acknowledge it by faith - it's a choice, not a behavior. Jesus himself said the only work of God we must do is "believe upon the One whom He's sent."
I don't see the correlation between the keys Christ promised Peter and what happened at Pentecost. Clearly, Jesus DID intend to illustrate something in "giving keys" but I believe this to be the principle of Christ's identity and Peter's co-identification based on His understanding of who Jesus is. This principle - upon which Christ will build His Church (again, jesus doing the building) - is I believe the crux of all our entry into heaven, namely, knowing Jesus as God's Son and being identified by our relationship with Him as a recipient of grace. I don't see any evidence (but I'm open) to the keys having anything to do with Peter's behavior then or later, and this seems to contradict some of Peter's own statements in his letters.
One statement concerns me greatly: "Focussing on Christ in the heavens is great for starters. But not for opening doors here on earth." This seems dangerous to me - I would only ask that you prayerfully consider the implications of this statement. Hebrews says, "Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the Author AND Finisher of our faith..." He initiated and will finish all things He has designed for us. Colossians 3 directs our focus again, "Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God" Praise God I died! Again - have to agree with you there! Now my life is in Christ alone. All of His glory through His Church will be by His grace to us for His glory through us.
Do we need greater revelation? YES! ...to understand all we ALREADY have in Christ's finished work. Paul wanted to know Christ more (Phil 3), and for us to know His love more (Rom. 8), and for His Church to have revelation of what is ours from Him (Eph 1). But it is all revelation of His finished work, not our unlocking new works or blessings He has withheld to date.
I debated with myself about sharing so much - concerned that it undermines my desire not to quarrel with you. I find a greater burden though in my heart - that to share love is often to share truth, especially with someone with such passion and desire for God. Please forgive me if I've overstepped your desire for clarifying conversation.
Yesterday at 22:31
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Chris Welch today
Brilliant reply.And so loving.We will just have to draw a line on Peter I guess. His was a unique gift from Christ never ever to be repeated. He got to announce that the Kingdom was now open for the first time to men. Nobody can ever be "the first" again. I would urge everyone including me to prayerfully consider the steps in Peter's life. Things like how God honours boldness and revelation and confession. God sorts out our inner stuff later. And boy, was it sorted! So here was a man brought to the right place and the right time in Acts 2 in much fear and trepidation, yet at the same time a kind of pure boldness in the Spirit. This whole cycle of events is worth taking deep into our beings.
You are right to point out that we should ALWAYS be fixing our eyes on the things above. I am writing a kind of shorthand there which can be misconstrued as....done that let's move on to works now.
No, it seems to work like this. In Ephesians we see a progression. As believers in God's school as opposed to the religious systems of men we spend at least 2 chapters or a third of our Christian experience doing NOTHING but focussing on Christ and our new position in Him. This is comparable with Romans Ch3-6. It seems we do nothing else and as believers we get a lot of flack for it. "You're NOT doing anything!!!" people cry. But because Christianity is an inward seeing, layer upon layer, like French polish...and NOT a left-brain seminary course....God has us in this bit for as long as He feels is necessary...THEN while living in Ephesians 1-2, and Romans 3-6, on our insides, the next phase is to get our believing working in 3D laboratories called family, work and friends...believers and unbelievers...This is Ephesians 3,4 and 5.
But nowhere have we moved outside of our continuous inward seeing of Ephesians 1 and 2 and Romans 3 to 6.
On Facebook we have to use shorthand...but the casualty is clarity. So naturally you thought I was moving on from ever looking at Jesus.
What happens after this is we begin to see Jesus clearer and clearer in absolutely everything that is going on. We begin to see what Jesus meant by "seeing what the Father was doing"...only for us it is seeing what Jesus is doing.
In terms of meetings, this is the key for moving in miracles. Jesus used to say..."Aaaah...I see the Presence of God is here for healing...who wants to be healed?" The phrase that is in the Bible is when Jesus saw that God was present to heal.
These Ephesians and Romans processes are outlined in the articles Merrill Thompson and Nancy Gilmore are sending out. The whole book of Norman Grubb’s entitled “Yes I am” is linked to also on my blog for download. If that’s too long, track down Romans 6-8 by Norman Grubb. It’s the same subject but more potted. More about keys and how the earth is given to the sons of men to either bind up or unlock is here in Peter Stott's series on psalm24.
http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2009/02/lift-up-your-heads-o-ye-gates.html
Having driven Ben to school I feel to commend you on stressing the finished work of Christ. The reason Rob Rufus is having to spend about 5 years teaching nothing but grace in an alien law-filled environment of Hong Kong is entirely correct in the Spirit.
Churches all over America are run by seminary trained individuals that have gone through a left-brain training mill of knowledge and they wonder why after spending 2 weeks a year teaching a left-brain version of grace, and 50 weeks on its outworking....why their Christians never grow.
We only grow by revelation. They themselves were never told it was an inward religion. The left-brain does not handle grace as a subject too easily, any more than it understands Christ in us the hope of glory and questions of love and being loved. The left-brain was just not equipped to do that.
Christianity in this way is condemned to failure in the west. The whole way it is run is doomed from the start. Praise God for people like you being raised up.
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