Some of us have been talking around the subjects of what happens in family breakdowns,how do you relate to hurting offspring.
Also covered are some thoughts on Unity, and how God is in everything even the very painful.How God commands Light to shine out of Darkness (Facebook conversations)
Cathy Rheeder
Hello all. I am arrested in 2 Corinthians 4:6, For God, who commanded the light to shine 0UT 0F DARKNESS ( ignorance, sickness,etc) has shone in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory(love) of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Yes HIDDEN in CHRIST( the anointing rubbed into us), yet not I, but CHRIST. For God, who commanded ( Rom 4:17b, 5:17b, Eph 5:1,) the light to shine 0UT of DARKNESS ( what breakthrough are u longing for? U are the LIGHT of the world, command it 0UT!) In the face of JESUS CHRIST. 1 Cor 6:17, He that is joined, united to the Lord is 0NE SPIRIT. 0NEderFUL. Love u all.
Chris Welch
Cathy...I am too arrested by this verse 2 Cor 4:6 as you share it. God commands the Light to shine OUT OF DARKNESS Then...our hearts which were Darkness...He commands a Light shine there in the midst of Darkness It's a miracle We can't do it It is the KNOWLEDGE....a revelation knowledge Of the GLORY of GOD....but in the FACE of Jesus Christ.
In view of what Ian has been saying about SEEING In view of the Spirit tradition which I come from which is SEEING THE GLORY OF GOD in worship and adoration where many laughed at us because we didn't have massive teaching like say in the Move where Daniel was... But THERE WAS AN internal SEEING which broke the yoke And there was a compensatory or should I say resulting LOVE which oozed in these Spanish and Argentinian congregations. People would worship sometimes for hours and time was irrelevant.
In actual fact it is BOTH the Spirit AND the Word, but can you see how the Revelation principle of "they worshipped....then Jesus broke the seals on the scroll and opened them."
The worship opens our inner digestion system...it opens our spiritual gut for the scroll to be opened to us.
Just some thoughts Cathy
Chris Welch
Lord we command again the Light to shine OUT of Darkness in Joan's boys in Corey (Philip Owen Morris's stepson) in Annalise's son! Amen
Annalize Mouton
And husband, daughter, daughter-in-grace, eldest son and granddaughter!!!!! Thank you, Lord.
Chris Welch
I am listening to the 1st half hour of Terry's The Burden of the Lord 2. Now some of what he is saying is how we want to build 3 tabernacles around the start of an unfolding vision...
To me in my little piano tuner to the Body of Christ role, I still cant help thinking we can have people lay this out forever....this is the tenor of many of our meetings with Ian mcCulloch. He was a great leader. But he still chucked me out.
Now our rebellion is 1 Corinthians 12 We say and continue to say Because you are not a hand..... an eye a foot I have no need of you.
But precisely here St paul says is how the Body is built There's an awe resident in creations of God that are us. This is what we find so hard to take. If I am a such and such...say a pastor....I'll have a tendency NOT to accept the sheer AWE of the Lord embedded in a prophet. If I am a prophet....I'll have an aversion perhaps to the intricate mundane gloryings of daily life which concern people, and administration that is a pastor's role....I will fundamentally MISS the very Glory of God in the every day. Why do you think God has had me doing really really mundane stuff.
In other words as we dedicate ourselves as the Body of Christ to stand at the gate of meeting IN BETWEEN the reactions pulls tensions and gloryings of 12 TOTALLY DIFFERENT TRIBES
In that place will be a glory that is some COMPLETE ABBREVIATION of CHRIST in the Earth. Just that alone will keep us humble, will unfold to us some of the hugeness of the revelation of the incarnation through man.
The 3 Revelations of Abraham Isaac and Jacob are also another "COMPLETE" abbreviation of the Fulness of God. Complete in themselves. Why God was pleased to be called I AM the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
We can go on arguing,bickering,reasoning, trying to gain the right attitudes...for ever and a day
Or IN ONE DAY we can do what the Lord says Gather In His Name Every tribe that can be gathered For in the complete assembly...if gathered properly before the true Lord Just doing that alone will speak very deeply to us about all our stupid leftbrain cul de sacs.....eg Calvinism versus Armenianism
How do I know these things....really know these things well...the key of David meetings are a forerunner, because they are gatherings of all kinds of hungry people from all over the place with no particular "house of doctrine"...but the LORD is there.
But I know also because there is a sound from heaven the melchizedek order has a spiritual sound...beyond human emotion and beyond human reason...the Living Presence of God
And naturally because as a piano tuner daily i have to tune 12 tribe members of an octave to perfection...and the strings "hate each other" or cannot be tuned perfectly. if i tuned C perfectly to G, then to D, already the keys following wouldn't be right. To be right I have to tune G slightly flat 5th to C, and so on right round in order to meet up bang in tune on the 12th note. So I don't tune G to its convenience, to where it has no beats against C...I have to tune it slightly off. And so is the Body of Christ....there's a tension. There's a Cross in our relating. There's a forebearance...but if we are each taking the strain...the amount we have to each yield is very little. The only reason at the moment we sometimes feel we have to yield massively is because our whole role is being denied by another section of the Body of Christ. Which is why Paul wrote what he wrote.
Wednesday
Cathy Rheeder
Thank u for sharing your thoughts with me Chris. We are a body, we all need one another's input, bless u.
Sister L
Friends- my Daughter J.. is having a tough time with the coming divorce and anger towards her I don't know what to call him.. He's not a father to her.. She needs love spoken into her so that she doesn't stay angry like this.... Please help me lift my daughter
Cathy Rheeder
Hooked up with u in Prayer L.... When u two are alone, give her a pillow, ask her questions about, her hurt, anger, rejection, & as she talks it all out, to hit, slap, box, that pillow, it helped my son when he was 8yrs, when his dad divorced us. Big hugs.
Kathy McDonald
Father I ask you to speak into L....'s daughter's heart as you did me so many years ago. In my anguish of my earthly father not being a father to me I cryed out "I wish I had a different father" and instantly you spoke and said "you have a heavenly Father". That was my first knowing of you as "MY Father". I pray for you to speak into her heart the same way ! Thank you Father !
Joan Reilly
It was wonderful! I'm thankful for every word.
Today
Chris Welch
Praying L..... These thoughts come. Even in a normal family there has to be a divorce of sorts once father input has been introduced....usually happens in teenage....where circumcision of relationships is practiced...ie...our relationships are on behalf of....not need based loving....then the relationships continue. We can see this in many Christian households where people live the Cross life.
But what I'm saying is....the real Father relationship is the one pointed to by the natural father. As we relate to the ONE it's like shortcircuiting all else in the created Universe... It isn't quite that...because even that can become an uncircumcised relationship. Can you imagine that? But this is now commonplace in the Holy Spirit move...or what was the Holy Spirit Move....what David Swan calls the mixed Holy Place area.
So what are the safeguards? A rightly related Body. You see if i'm really relating with the genuine Father, it includes your genuine relationship with the Father. We are ONE thing. God is not my boyfriend. God is not my army buddy. To use two male and female stereotypes.
God alone is HOLY and that we get by revelation. If we don't...."Holy" is this very heavy religious word that in Spirit terms becomes meaningless.
He is neither our flesh buddy nor is He distant. He is HOLY and GOD and counts every single hair...and DNA strand in our bodies. We just can't get these paradoxes in the leftbrain...we have to KNOW HIM, let Him splice us to Him like some grafted sapling...it is His doing by grace.
Chris Welch
(From my Fb status)
Unity of the Spirit until we arrive at the unity of faith, is a grace area. We fix our believing on the completed ETERNAL NOW picture,but like a dot to dot picture, with our eyes upon this earth at the moment we see a lot that has to join. God joins from the inward out. That's why we are really a lot further on than it looks. Actually if all Christians today got caught up in the Spirit such that Ephesians 1 to 4 became substance in them and not airy fairy leftbrain doctrine, by tonight, we'd be joining together out of every country on earth. Without Galations 2:20 as inner consciousness we remain Methodists, FreeBelievers, Catholics, Baptists,7th Day Adventists you name it. What God is currently doing according to the scripture "Enlarge the place of your tents"...is piling in stakes unbelievably deep into the soil. In 1 John 2 terms we have lived corporately at mostly child level with smatterings of "young men" YWAM type stuff going on...but none of this goes deep enough for the huge mainframe tent that is sown ready in the Kingdom of heaven. For this size of Beast...(not the revelation beast you understand) you need stakes that are painfully painfully deep....in fact, really and truly past all the sand level, and down to the Rock...where we are living out of Christ as us all day long as second nature. One of the fun things we are going to do is scare the living daylights out of any remaining last charismatics, who only do God in meetings and quiet times. Paul Cain warned about such people from Joel 2. We will look neither to the right nor the left, but we will rush upon cities dismantling all the infrastructures that come from the LIE of separation and a distant God. For some it may be a truly harrowing experience...for others , they'll be drunk on Grace New Wine!
Sister LThanks for prayer ! How do I explain such truth to a twelve year old who sees her friends doing things with their dads every day? She is resentful and angry he has rejected her. She still wonders what's wrong with her that HER dad acts as though she doesn't exist... I have told her repeatedly all these years, it's not her fault, she thought it was, that we can't expect him to do what he can't do. He is incapable of loving J..... the way she wants to be loved
Sister L
How do I help her let go of the expectation from another person, human person, and help her focus on Abba and his love and provision ? Logic isn't working... Different perspective isn't working... How do I help her let go of her imaginary wish life and embrace her real one?
Please pray for God to speak to her in this area. Turn on the light !
Going to do the pillow talk...
Kathy McDonald
Chris I love all that you said here. Some very deep truths here.
Annalize Mouton
L........., it is not something anyone can do – only the Lord. Once we as the parent who has to deal with all of their rejection, etc. understands at a very deep level that all of this is also "working together" towards Christ being formed in our children and ourselves and our exes, we start to thank the Lord for whatever they and we are going through at the moment. And please understand that this is not just a "glib platitude"! I have been through this with my own children. Jesus's words to Pilate are so relevant in these situations: You have no power over me, except what has BEEN GIVEN to you by My Father who is in Heaven. By faith we, in the face of this great trial, choose to praise God – we BY FAITH believe His word which says that He loves our children more than we ever could and He knows, and He is Wisdom. Just be there for her. If she rants and raves against you just take it all and put yourself in the Lord who swallows and carries all of this and be her human cushion. Do not revile or be tempted to speak evil against their father. Praying.
Sister L
Oh jeez, it just occurred to me... The words I use, he can't do it, you can't expect him to... She may think i'm defending him....
Annalize Mouton
He cannot do it,, neither can anyone of us without knowing that the love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts!!!!!
Sister L
True ! I remember talking to get years ago about His love being what equips us to love others.. Have to revisit that with her....
Daniel Yordy
I am always placing my children into God by giving thanks, giving thanks, even against the breaking of my father's heart. I always expect God to arise even against everything outwardly. At the same time, I don't impose my own druthers, Christian or not upon them. Thus I am always overwhelmed to tears as I see God showing up in their lives, completely separate from me. That's how I see it anyway. The truth is, my own heart, cast utterly into God in tears, giving Him thanks, is the very Mercy Seat through which Jesus is free, now to carry them.
Kathy McDonald
L...., I understand completely what you are going through. My children have went through the same thing. Their father was never a father to them. I remember seeing my son when he was ten years old holding onto a black telephone receiver and crying to the point where his tears dripping off the receiver ( I can still see those tears today ) and he was begging his dad to come see him. His dad said "no I am going to the bar". Nothing ever changed with their dad. They came to accept him as he is. He has caused great hurt and pain in their lives over the years. They are all grown now with families of their own. I know the longing is still there of them wanting to be "accepted" by their father. For their dad to be a dad. They just want to hear him say "I love you son/daughter and I am proud of you". Only God knows if this will ever be. All the "logic" in the world will not change this. Only God our Father can change it. The ONLY thing we need to do is to draw these situations into the Mercy seat of God. To completely hand over the situations to our Lord. To pray for these men. For their salvation first and for them to see their children and to become dad's to them. We have to place them in the Mercy seat and TRUST Jesus to work it all out. Pray for divine protection for our children and for THEM TO RECEIVE JESUS INTO LIVES. We MUST HAVE COMPLETE FAITH AND TRUST THAT THIS WILL BE SO. No matter what we see with our earthly eyes. Our Father desires and longs for your children more than we do. Scriptures says "us and our households". I wrote all their names in the margin beside that verse years ago. It is very hard when we don't see with our eyes what we don't want to see. But we must trust the Lord. One hour in prayer and praying in tongues will do far more then a year of us "trying" to do anything. We love, teach and train our children. We cannot keep them from all the hurts that people in this world will cause them. We have to trust Jesus and have faith for them. I still pray for my ex husband and his new wife and children. I know they belong to the Lord. Just keep telling her how special she is. How proud you are of her. Encourage her in all things. You will find that YOUR love and the love of her Heavenly Father will sustain her. She will come to know Jesus as her Lord in all things too. Ha ! My children treat me like I am their mother AND father lol . So much so I started telling them them (especially my son) that I want father's day presents as well lol When ever something needs fixed they call me. Whenever my son restores a car (autobody restorations) he calls me to come see. Ellis. Next to God and His Son Jesus Christ. YOU can be enough for her !!! I will be praying for you and your daughter Ellis !!
Kathy McDonald
Just read Annalize and Daniels posts . IN TOTAL AGREEMENT !!! We must give thanks FOR all things. Always give thanks !
Annalize Mouton
Would be good, but please just be there for her "without trying to help or correct how she feels". Let me explain: My son said to me one day that I am not listening to him. I said, I was and heard all he said. He said no, I'm making it worse and adding more condemnation by trying to correct him. It was a tough one for me, but eventually I got it. When you have a wound and am in great pain – you don't need anyone to tell you why or what who did right or wrong or how should feel or what you should say. That is the awesomeness of God. We can say to Him exactly how we feel at that very moment and press right further into Him and He will ease it all away and make it better and sometimes without even saying anything we come to a realization of not only the truth about ourselves, but also of others. You remember a while ago I told you about my son (30)(it was last year in Oct/Nov thereabouts) phoning me telling me that he was drunk and was going to drive home as fast as he could and if he doesn't kill himself through that, he is coming to kill me and my husband. I prayed, had to release my son once again to the Lord that whatever happens would only be what He allowed as His Father, and proclaimed aloud what the Lord said to me. Anyway when my son came home, I went outside. The police was there and he was screaming and shouting at them, too. I eventually told him to shutup and acknowledged the police's right to arrest him, but asked for favour knowing that the Lord's will will triumph whichever way. They then asked me if I would be okay and they left us. I called my son to me and we sat down on the lawn (it was almost 11 at night) and I told him it is fine if he wants to kill me or himself, but there is nothing I can do to change what has happened in our lives. He then said to me: Mom, would you just once listen, really listen to me. (I have always thought that I do listen to them!) Anyway, he poured out his heart, tears streaming down his face, and told me how desperately he wants to be a "good" person, loving others, not taking drugs. How he loves me and his dad, but has always blamed himself for our divorce, how hard he is trying to earn his own way, but everything seems to be against him, his struggles with autism, etc. How he would never kill, but that is how desperate he feels at times. and much, much more… It just poured out of him. Lisa, the Lord shut me up that night. It was like He replaced me and if it was truly Him sitting there with my son, taking all of that into Himself and carrying it away. I have no words to really express the awesomeness of that whole night, but I just know, know, know, that He did it all. It was like I, the mother, vanished and it was all Him and He took us both into Him and since then. The one thing Daniel's writings have done to me, is made me comfortable with my own and others' human weaknesses. We don't have to get it right, all the time. We are allowed to be weak, to stumble, to be vulnerable, to be confused, to not have answers – and somehow he comes through best during those times. I don't know if all this makes sense. I basically just want to say to you – it is all right for all of you to feel like you are feeling just now. Cry with her. You really do not have the "right" answer and solution, not even about your ex.
Annalize Mouton
Sorry, Daniel and Kathy, I have been typing when yours came through. Just now read it, and yes, I do agree with you. What I wanted to say after since then… since then there has been a continuous marked change in my son. So much so that he openly speaks about Jesus to me, reads his Bible and pray again, and is just a very changed young man. Only the Lord.
Kathy McDonald
Amen Annalize ! ONLY the Lord !! I hear things from my children too. And like Daniel said , when I do it brings me to tears. I hear JESUS in them ! And you know what when I do hear things, it is not the false things that is taught in the religious system. Especially with my son. He doesn't say much but when he does it is usually something deeply profound and is truth. The ONLY way he see's these things is it is Jesus showing him. I am usually the one caught and brought to tears when I hear him speak these deeper truths not realizing that he knew them ! I believe beyond anything that there is so much more going on in the lives of all around us including our loved ones, our children, that we do not see outwardly. Only God knows a heart !!
Sister L
I'm at work, responding via text looking forward to going back on to read... Love u all
Annalize Mouton
Oh, Shirley, our Lord is so amazing and His ways are awesome and so beyond our natural understanding. I love you all.
By the way, Lisa and Shirley, there are some awesome posts on the Blood of Jesus and our covenant relationship with Him on my timeline. I really would encourage you to read.
Shirley Unger Cunningham
Oh how I love how he works wi th this group... a friend just called me out of th e blue and spoke about blood covenant and i needed to study the spiritual aspects of it..... conifrmation again.
Annalize Mouton
And please read Daniel's stuff on the Covenant again, also when you have time – profound!
Chris Welch
I've been saying about the tunnelling at both ends thing http://080808onnowto.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/tunnel-breakthrough-from-both-ends.html I have to say too Daniel's verbalising of how God has fashioned this earth life has helped remove some of the bitterness and lies with which the devil regales against what is. It is the devil who a. creates the breakdowns then b. screams about God's powerlessness or non existence. Really this is the double cut and thrust behind Auschwitz. And behind family breakdowns. But God is in these tastes of hell, and the thoroughness and depth of his workings, which we see referred to when we go behind the scenes, or we read Annie Schissler's visions... The charismatic quick zap idea, although it is sometimes real God interventions....generally it is hopelessly shallow in representing the hugeness of the "earthworks" going on in our beings. He is fashioning Himself....this is a completely different order and scale of working.
The charismatic vision only sees things in terms of the selfhelp bookshelf. "How can we put right a person's temporary stuation." God's angle is....How can I bring forth Myself, My glory, My person, My character within this ball of clay. Kinda different.
Rich Novek
Release, Rest, and Receive, 3 words God gave to me when I was estranged from my kids after my divorce. Estranged because their mother who just remarried, married a lying, cheating, drug addict, alcoholic, and was NOW living under the same roof as my 5 young children.
I was newly married to Linda, living in California, my kids were (and still are in Florida) I woke up one morning in a panic and screamed out the words, "My kids!!!!!" God immediately corrected me, "Whose kids?" And then He reminded me of three words He had been showing me the meaning of the previous 25 years.
RELEASE-Just let go of everything you are holding onto and still calling your own, including your kids, spouse, stuff, vision, ministry, identity, and reputation.
REST- Take your appointed place of Rest IN Him as you grasp the power of His awesome saving and KEEPING Grace!
RECEIVE- Now you are positioned to receive from Him as your ALL IN ALL every good and perfect gift, even if by appearances the gift looks completely opposite of what you would call good and perfect.
This is what God gave me at a time I needed to know my kids would be okay. to make it through the many years my 5 kids turned against me and listened to the poisonous lies of their mother.
Today, nearly 10 years later my kids and I are all reconciled, even though we have been geographically separated for the last 13 years!
This is only possible because of Grace, and NOW those three words have become the foundation of everything that concerns my life.
RELEASE, REST, RECEIVE!
Joan Reilly
I just got home from my walk with Rich via telephone. We do this most mornings sharing, praying and praising God. Thirty minutes goes by like a shot. I just read your responses to Lisa and I am so blown away. Annalize, my tears are still wet as I write this. What an amazing God to do what He did for you and Johannes (is that right?) If not tell me his name again. Praise God for you Annalize. Thank God for what He is doing inJesse
Chris Welch
I remember us all praying that night Annalize
Yes Christine has done really well against incredible odds
Joan Reilly
I remember that day too,Chris. Now to see God's faithfulness brings tears to my eyes. And Congratulations to Christine. That is one amazing accomplishment. Release, Rest and Receive Rich are words I now live by thanks to you.
Chris Welch
I think I understand what God showed you Rich a lot better this time reading it.
Joan Reilly
Yes Congratulations to Chris also For all your support
Joan Reilly
And Shirley I so agree with you about loving how God works in this group!
