The Hope FM Interview 90.1 - Elaine Interviews Chris 19_12_17

Some of what Piano work entails...

This is what I have been doing for the last week. The first two raw pictures of the grand lid were taken in the house at Gerrards Cross.
By last Saturday and facing yet more hours of fruitless labour with all the incredible water damage, and rippled thick veneer that had probably been in that state for years and hardened terribly....I was just about ready to give up.
But I was able to devise fresh techniques for bringing the lid back to being flat again.
I restuck the veneer that didn't have enough original glue left using that traditional bone glue you heat in what looks like a cauldron.
Then I began again from scratch staining the veneer black, in order to then build up the polish again with black stained shellac french polish.
This is the traditional furniture finish which allows the wood to breathe and brings up wood grain when it isn't stained matt black.
It is however very susceptible to water damage which is how the problem occurred. These pics and more of my work life can be seen on Piano-s in Facebook, and my website www.piano-s.com

Sandy Halverson shares a verse on Unity

Sandy Halverson

Let them all be one. Just as you, Father are in union with Me and I am with you, let them be in union with us..
John 17:21

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Chris Welch In the 1970s the Holy Spirit was saying Unity Big Time. We sang songs as Jesus People. Jimmy and Carol Owens toured with Come Together.
Newbies like us who had come straight out of the denominations were deeply deeply moved by the love of God shed abroad in the gatherings. On a corporate level it was similar to a couple falling in love. We were SURE it would work. We bet our lives on it. After seeing Graham Pulkingham and the Fisherfolk living together as community plus all the new revelation on the Body of Christ....we left universities....our towns ...even our countries. Some joined YWAM. I joined an Argentinian based network here in the UK. We even lived through the Argentine - UK war together.
It all looked so round the corner !!!
But nobody....bar an aging leader here or there knew that there was three levels of growth in Christianity. We were all convinced there were about one or two.....so when it didn't work....or appear to work....the landscape is now littered with burned out charismatics from that era.
Some really abused ones who suffered enormously in the Mark 1 versions of "Headship and submission".
Well in our church, a number of us became piano tuners.
What's so good about that?
I'll tell you what's so good about it.
There are physical laws. There are tricks of the trade, whereby every single day of our lives we face totally wonky pianos....totally honky tonk....and we regard it as totally matter of fact that we can tune them....the very worst ones in only 2hours or even 1 and a half hours.
We are NOT burned out at the end of the day. Tired maybe. But not burned out. We don't grow cynical saying that pianos can never be tuned. We don't leave pianos in a condition so that people can only play in Csharp minor so they can only play Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata and not some Concerto in D major. When we leave them they play in every key. They also play anything from Frere Jacques to Elton John.
Tuners don't get proud thinking how wonderful they are for being able to do this....anymore than Wendy Adams Evans husband thinks how brilliant he is that he can drive a train to London and back.
It is absolutely normal.
And so it is too in the Body of Christ....
IN THE THIRD LEVEL.
While we are still hardwired to leftbrain living...to living according to the flesh...having not yet trained our senses according to righteousness....it's bloomin well impossible....
But the third level Word spoken in John 6 and then again from John 13-17 produces Acts 2 results....
AND AS PETER BEGAN TO SPEAK ALL THE OTHER 11 STOOD WITH HIM

The Negative Spiritual Power of Mixture Part Four - The NOW Antidote to Mixture

Sin only has it's ability to attach itself to a False Identity....if we want sin to perpetuate in this world with all it's ugliness of greed and separation, it's us and them mentality with all it's filthy stench of inferiority and superiority inducing attitudes, then we should carry on with identifying ourselves (who we perceive ourselves to be) with a lie.....
To place 'confidence in the flesh' is not so much about your natural abilities, it is primarily about identity......placing confidence in an identity formed by your natural existence will produce both arrogance and inferiority, and they both stink as filthy rags and will repel those around you....yet knowing your true being, which existed in love before your natural birth, has such a powerful confidence with absolutely no trace of arrogance, and the fragrance emanating from this 'knowing' carries a recognition and remembrance to those around you of their own true being which was Created in Love..... Colin Lagerwall

REAL LOVE IS NOW

Real love also cannot centre itself in Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil stuff. or put another way , real love only works NOW. Our plans are for the future.Or our perceptions are about how the past was. But LOVE is NOW, and that operates f...rom a different place right within us. I've never seen that so forcefully here this morning: http://www.holdingonloosely.com/deep-calls-to-deep/
With Love at the centre we are free to do all. Living in the control of our own perceptions it actually is impossible to experience NOW, we're too much in the future in worry, or too much in the past in regret or pride. Now it's one thing to teach this stuff, it's quite another to gather together and live there as ONE. So for this reason was the Holy Spirit given so that we would know how (in the Spirit) to maintain the unity of the Spirit until we arrive to the unity of the faith.The Holy Spirit builds the landing strip as more and more Kingdom comes into land.Here I speak of "outer enduring manifestation" or unity of faith, rather than what Jesus plunged us into which was unity of Spirit. Not by might, nor by power but by my Spirit expresses the language by which this is accomplished. The language of the Spirit is the language of the Tabernacle and the Feasts, but not the Jewish outer forms, the inner corporate experience of the Book of Hebrews Melchizedek order. The reason Paul wrote : I cannot speak much of this now, was that it is on a "timing release". People in the Pentecostal revelation are having that stage revealed to them, subjects to do with the Holiest Place and Jesus living as us are at that time impossible to comprehend. But then the Body grows, and the Holy Spirit releases more according to His heavenly language. Chris Welch

"Jesus said to Martha: Your brother shall rise again. Martha replied: I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said to her: I AM Myself the Resurrection and the Life." So, we don't wait for "the last days" or "the final hour" to come, for the time HAS fully come. We are just exploring the promised land (Jesus) we are already IN.   Andrea Garzón

He is in this present moment, and has forever been “The “NOW” God! His name is I AM, it’s not I WAS, or I WILL BE! (Exodus 3:14) He is called THE EVER PRESENT HELP in time of trouble! (Psalm 46:1) He is the ETERNAL GOD! (Deuteronomy 33:27) He is Not the God who lives in the illusionary boundaries of TIME! There is NO TIME IN HIM! (II Peter 3:8)

As Linda and I were praying, God said to Linda, our looking up is a symbolism of looking for the “God up there”, for the God who is separated from us and who lives in the FUTURE!

"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here LOOKING INTO THE SKY? This SAME JESUS, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in THE SAME WAY you have seen Him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11)

How have we interpreted this passage in modern times? This SAME JESUS will come back again in the SAME WAY! This Jesus, who only does what He sees His Father doing, will ALWAYS manifest himself in the exact SAME WAY! Since He is the SAME Yesterday, Today, and Forever, and the ONE on whom we have our gaze FIXED, HE will ALWAYS show up THE SAME WAY, loving us without condition, and without guilt or condemnation! He will ALWAYS welcome us with open arms as His beloved! So let’s move onto maturity and SEE HIM AS HE IS! He will ALWAYS be the SAME, with NO variableness or shadow of turning! He will ALWAYS be blazing Glory, casting no shadow! And because He ALWAYS SEES ONLY THE FATHER IN ALL THINGS, He will NEVER have a reason to turn to the right or to the left! His gaze is fixed, so where is ours?

People say a lot of things about Peter, but at least Peter got out of the boat! He fixed His gaze on Christ, and for a moment he experienced “AS HE IS SO ARE WE IN THIS WORLD!” (I John 4:17) But then Peter began to FEEL the wind stirring up the lapping waves, and he TURNED to the right, and then he TURNED to the left, and He started sinking! And then Jesus looked at him with total disgust and let him drown, right? No, Jesus saved him, as HE will ALWAYS save those who call on HIM! There is no shadow of turning “IN” HIM! (Mathew 14:28-31)

The lamb was cut and the blood was poured into a basin at the foot of the doorway. The hyssop was taken from the basin on the threshold (looking down) of the doorway, dipped in the lambs blood and applied to the top of the doorway (looking up) and then both sides (the turning to the right and the left!) of the doorway!

This Passover is not only about the blood that protects from the death angel, as we have been taught, but is also a pointing to of the POWER OF THE BLOOD OF CHRIST (His one time sacrifice for all mankind) which makes this “FIXED” life not only possible, but “NOW” fully expected! This is where we see ONLY GOD, ONLY NOW! The blood has washed away the past and the future, and any inclination we might have for looking to the right or the left! There is no past or future “IN” Him! And if there is no past or future “IN” Him, then why would there be any need for us to turn? Christ is OUR ALL! He is our PAST, PRESENT, and FUTURE!

We “NOW” enter in the entry way by THE NEW AND LIVING WAY! (Hebrews 10:20) The same way that we once believed to be a set of rules, or a philosophy, or traditions of men! The way that had us bound in chains to a past that doesn’t even exist “IN” Him, has “NOW” become the ONLY NEW AND LIVING WAY! And the NEW AND LIVING WAY ONLY EXISTS IN THE “Now” of the NEW AND LIVING "TODAY!" (Hebrews 4:7)

Christ has become our food and drink, the DAILY Manna which we have not known, nor have our fathers! (Deuteronomy 8:3) He is the “Mystery” hidden from ages and past generations. (Colossians 1:26) The lamb’s blood which at one time only covered, is ”NOW” THE BLOOD that thoroughly cleanses! Cleanses from ALL SIN! And by SIN, I don’t mean the individual acts we commit by certain so called UN-Christian behaviors we may exhibit. Behaviors we focus on that cause us to be obsessed with trying to change our UN-Christian Behavior into Christian behavior! So we can TRY to become Christ Like! There is ONLY ONE WHO IS CHRIST LIKE, that is CHRIST Himself! God is not a behaviorist, He is in fact a Love-ist! And we no longer pray to a separated God “up there” or “down the road!” But for some reason, many in the modern day church can’t seem to move past the false belief of a God that exists separate from them! The God “up there”, “down the road”, or the one they have to keep looking to their right or their left to try and find!

The ONLY TRUE SIN FOR THE BELIEVER IS IN SEEING MORE THAN GOD! It’s what James called being double minded, Paul called a wicked unbelieving heart, and Jesus himself called evil!

“Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is NOT UP in heaven, so that you have to ask, "Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" NOR IS IT BEYOND the sea, so that you have to ask, "Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" NO! THE (LIVING) WORD IS VERY NEAR YOU, IT (HE) IS “IN” (present tense) YOUR MOUTH AND “IN” (present tense) YOUR HEART SO YOU MAY OBEY IT (HIM)! (Deuteronomy 30:11-14) Rich Novek (FB note 6th Aug 2010_The Now God)

We can hold on to what we thought true before, but it might not have abundant Life flowing from the eternal River within you spirit. Thoughts are the centre of deception unless they are rooted in Truth in you, the deeper Source, Christ within. There is only One Christ and our becoming conscious of this deeper Life is the only discovery with eternal value. What you did yesterday does not matter when you discover your true identity in Him, what you know now is the power that either gets you living in Him or that keeps you living in the dimension of thoughts that might be inferior and not based on Truth at all. The systems in the world keep us busy with stuff that makes us feel inferior and inadequate and insecure. We mostly feel guilty, we worry about almost everything and we are scared to death of not finding God’s approval and maybe not making it into heaven one day.  Living in yesterday and fearing tomorrow make us miss today! We miss living in His awesome moment NOW. Our minds are deceived about the truth of our identity, so we strive to become someone better today, than we were yesterday and somehow never feel that we got it right. This trying to become keeps us just short of making it, so we stay in guilt and shame and striving to do better tomorrow. All the power of healing is in the moment, in a moment you can forgive, you can love, you can set free and care.  Our gift is revealed in the moment, His Life you can share with all and this is Life is the moment, Now!
 We are His moment, we are His appointment, we are His Life on earth as it is in heaven. We are His address, we are His dwelling place, see His presence now is within man. We either wake up to knowing His Presence now, or we stay neutralized by the lie of trying to get to Him somewhere, someplace, sometime in a future happening. Our striving to go to heaven one day might keep you from discovering His fullness in your spirit today, NOW! Do not miss out on finding your true identity in Him by believing in one day, rather lift up your eyes to His presence within you and feast with Him today! Now is the time, today the Day of the Lord!
Dafre Troskie Now the Wow Moment

Unity NOW - GOD Left nothing out already!!!   Chris Welch
Hebrews 2 :8-9
In putting everything under them(mankind/sons of men),^[d] God left nothing that is not subject to them.^[e] Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.^{[f] 9} But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Ephesians 4:7“When he ascended on high,
   he took many captives
   and gave gifts to his people.”

 Ephesians 4:15 speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. ¹⁶ From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

Ephesians 4 :3
Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. ⁴ There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; ⁵ one Lord, one faith, one baptism; ⁶ one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
 DOT DOT DOT DOT DOT
So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, ¹² to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up ¹³ until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
 Often we strive for things and wonder why they are unattainable, one of these is unity.
But we are looking in the wrong place. We are looking with our eyes for something perceivable with which to work with, which we can manipulate. This is the whole basis of the most extreme example : the Ecumenical Movement. But really all of us are like it.

Let's take a step backwards : the gift of salvation.
We are sinners. We see the Bible. We see the high standards. We start going to church. We are convicted by the high moral standards coming from the pulpit. But we know we are powerless to change. Then we hear of Jesus sacrifice. Wow , by believing on this sacrifice, that is none of ourselves, we learn we can be reconnected to God. It's been done already. We gratefully accept, and experience in our own being the glory of being instantly reconnected with God.
Unity
Well, how strange it is....but every thing in God is this. Unity too. This is the antidote to the negative spiritual power of mixture and disunity........"to stand still and see the salvation of our God". It's already here.You're too late to go and fetch any of it. It's already arrived!
 In the tabernacle picture are three places that are kind of like the corporate equivalents to the individually experienced three stages of growth :children ,young men,fathers. Outer courts,holyplace,holiest place.

Now because of our weakness, not because of fact......inside the middle area there is a table of shewbread.Take this as Christ Food which we must, eat all the while referring to the candlestick which speaks of the gifts and power of the Holy Spirit in preparing us for maturity.

Because of our weakness, and not because it is fact, those pieces of bread are neatly portioned up into twelve
notional portions.  It is ofcourse notional, because Christ is not in fact divided. But children and young men in Christ (both sexes in the Spirit) cannot handle the WHOLE OF HIM. Obviously there are heights and depths to knowing the love of God in every portion of our being, and one by one the Holy Spirit invades every part with His light. What does He find there.....neutral ground? No, there is no neutral ground. Every part that is not filled with His light is still filled with darkness. While these processes are going on we forebear one another in love. We maintain the keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

When the Holy Spirit pours Himself out on believers He doesn't come and promise one day when people are good enough He will bring unity. He brings the FACTS of heaven NOW.

The NOW fact of heaven is : God left NOTHING that is not subject to mankind.  He completed the job.
We do not see the job completed with our eyes, but in each Spirit-filled meeting that is genuine, the Holy Spirit broadcasts  heaven's finished frequency!   He creates that Spirit model among the believers. Then says walk in it!

I love God's way of doing things. Man's perception of God is that He would stand afar off, and we would use spiritual gifts in some way to make ourselves more approachable to Him.
Our real God is not like that. Instead, knowing our weakness to be able to produce anything at all, HE exports all of heaven NOW for us by the Spirit in the meeting....or in other ways. We are not trying to attain Him, He repeatedly splashes us from His River with heaven now. And this takes root in our beings, transforming us from darkness to Light. But it is RECEIVED from His finished work, not us trying to use spiritual building blocks to somehow get to  it.

What are His tools?

• Well tool one, the most important, is that He has done it all already on the Cross. He has broken down the "dividing wall of hostility". The Temple veil has been once for all rent in two.From the word go we enter beyond the veil right where Jesus is in the Holy of Holies.

We are part of a generation that are now seeing this as a way of life, not just meetings.We do not see everything in subjection with our outer eyes. With our outer eyes we see mixture. We see disunity. but with our inner eyes we gaze upon Mark One Prototype of an innumerable host of like brethren. The fact that the One made it through and has now poured out His same life by the Spirit, means it is a dead cert that we, in the same way by faith, are going the same way.

• But Tool Two He poured out in huge abundance - He gave gifts to men. Spiritual gifts. Supernatural gifts. Natural abilities also, that we receive back by resurrection as we plunge into the Galations 2:20 reality of nolonger I that live, but Christ I, received back from the dead, hidden, interwoven, interleaved with Him in the heavenly places of Ephesians 1 and 2.  You'd better believe in the spiritual giftings and ministries too.

Here's a secret
Each corporate church era had its own type of gifted ministries. We have not fully seen the sort of thing God has in store for this third level of Church building. Charismatics have settled down quite nicely to their versions of what apostles and prophets look like. But Christ uses new tools, or new looking tools for whatever stage is necessary at the time.  Can't tell you anymore than that...just be open.

• Tool Three is as powerful as Genesis 1 when the Father spoke "Let there be Light".We are to be co-speakers, co-declarers of this NOW word of the Kingdom of heaven being at hand. We are to "speak the truth in love". It is quite easy to speak truth among those whose hearts are softened. But it is quite disruptive, though we still speak in love, for those still entrenched in "mixture", in "God and."

God didn't raise up the Word of Faith movement for Cadillacs. He raised up this whole area of "speaking  things into being" so we might accustom ourselves to the Power unleashed as "we speak the truth in love", to build up the Body of Christ faster than we could ever have imagined possible. Why?

• Tool Four. The missing Tool, never used for any length of time  EVER. Tool Four has been cleverly blocked by the devil at every juncture. Tool Four isn't a tool as such, it is a restoration of the truth that new supernaturally given ministries have the power to "equip His people for works of service" quicker than anyone could have ever imagined. I know people hate Morris Cerullo, but he proved that you could take a bunch of ordinary Christians, and over a period of 3-5 days, so blitz them with Truth from anointed ministries, coupled with the "experience" of God acting and working among His people in meetings, that many would leave totally transformed and change their geographical areas for God.

So tool four is Ephesians 4 :16, in the Youngs Literal Translation from whom the whole body, being fitly joined together and united, through the supply of every joint, according to the working in the measure of each single part, the increase of the body doth make for the building up of itself in love. 

NIV has a nasty literal phrase which is absent in the original 
joined and held together by every supporting ligament,
The original text (Youngs)comes from the Holy Spirit, the NIV translation  comes out of the mind of man, based upon their experiences of church history.  Terry Virgo might be called a "supporting ligament".This is total religious baloney .The original makes it clear that we are joined NOW, by the NOW supply of every joint.A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

"according to the working in the measure of each single part"    Wow, can you imagine the speed at which the Body, set free so that every single part is working to its faith capacity, can reproduce and grow?

Prophet Bob Jones catches up !

This a cheeky title, because Bob is actually saying a lot more than the use of the internet.....a whole dynamic commitment to what Elaine Waterfield and myself have been calling locally The Kingdom without Walls.

We have both shared independent direction on our local area Leigh Park near Portsmouth UK.....but Bob Jones is sharing the principles here. The difference is people will listen to Bob Jones!!!!!


Bob Jones:

It's Time to Inter-Net

http://elijahlist.com/words/display_word/9591

In a vision I saw a fishing net and it was completely full of large fish. The net had a hole in it and the fish escaped. Then I was shown a tool that would be used to mend the net. It was a special type of tool that the Lord was giving to some of His approved leaders of the Church. This tool was for networking!

If you're going to be part of the harvest, several churches will need to come together; laying down their private agenda and surrender to God's eternal purpose. One church will not be able to hold all the fish. It will take several that network together who allow the Holy Spirit to lead them into one of the greatest harvests we have ever seen.

I believe this vision is Peter's net. The 153 fish in Peter's net represent the nations of the world and the Lord had Israel on the spit. There were 154 nations in the world at that time.

Ask the Lord for the Nations!

John 21:8-11, But the other disciples came in the little boat (for they were not far from land, but about two hundred cubits), dragging the net with fish. Then, as soon as they had come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid on it, and bread.

Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish which you have just caught." Simon Peter went up and dragged the net to land, full of large fish, one hundred and fifty-three; and although there were so many, the net was not broken.

This net is for the nations. It's time we ask the Lord to give us the nations!

Psalm 2:8, Ask of Me, and I will give you the nations for your inheritance, and the ends of the earth for your possession.

We will need to be joined together in spirit, not in mind or soul. We will need to become servants to the Holy Spirit to pull this net in.


Bob and Bonnie Jones

Coming Into God's House by Chris Welch

First appearance as Facebook Notes Part One and Two, with an excerpt from Daniel Yordy .

In the last supper,Jesus girded Himself like a servant,bent down and made to wash Peter's feet. "No,no,no,master."Peter was horrified. Peter if you dont allow Me to do this, then you'll have no part in Me." "oh well, do all of me."
We're one day away from the Big "B" in Peter's life. "B" day. Peter , within hours, is going to experience one of the biggest "Breaks" in a psyche that any man at any time has had. He is going to be confronted with his independent self!!!!
Until then....until true Spirit definition begins to nail him in the coming days and weeks, he is much like you and me.Up one minute, down the next.Super holy, and doesn't need help.....overly zealous and religious and grovelling the next.

So the problem in entering God's House, both in our lifelong experience, or in say, some individual meeting, or coming to know Jesus in the first place, isn't a problem with
God's grace
God's protocolls
God's expectations
God's commands.
It is entirely OUR PROBLEM. We don't know who we were....before the Cross changed our identity....nor AFTER.
So it doesn't matter how God lays it out for us....
in all the books of the Bible
through all the most anointed people preaching on the Earth today
through friends who break through religious men's ceilings in order to let their beloved crippled friend down safely at the feet of Jesus.
Things JUST WONT WORK FOR US.....or let's rephrase that....some things will work some times. But here's a fantastic truth.....EVEN the failures are all taking us somewhere. Jesus life in us WILL GET US where we want to be if we just refuse to give up, and carry on believing ON HIS LIFE, and its power to get us there. This is what we mean by Grace. And what we also mean by grace, is that while God is making this life work in us....from the outset His grace is also covering us...at all times. How fantastic is that? His life in us is enough!!!!
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
So as grace believers we can come into God's Presence, and continue to grow exactly as we please, because He is going to cover us. Nope. This is the SAME God that surrounded Himself with such terrifying holiness at Sinai, that the people all spoke unanimously.....we don't want any of that....it absolutely freaks us out....you go up Moses!!!! The same God.
Now in Hebrews it says we have not come to Sinai, but to Zion. So we gaily skip in then. We create a temple of our choosing. With steps. With the hoops and hoopla of our choosing.
Nope. Again nope.

We throw away the paraphernalia of the tabernacle of the OT then? And just do our thing?
Nope. Here is the secret. The earthly tabernacle never had any value in itself at all. Even when it was standing as a picture, by God coming to presence Himself within it, He was saying even then..."Even now, this is not the reality. I am the reality, and the True Tabernacle is even now in the heavenlies."

So, in the New Testament, yes we throw away the sacrificed animals and all the tent paraphernalia....to forever forget about it?...like they do in Baptist churches and Quaker meeting places, and Methodist Churches? No. Denominations are totally off their rocker here....or worse still, like the Catholics, they virtually rebuild the whole outer sequence of the Tabernacle again IN THEIR CHURCH BUILDINGS. What's that about?

Nope. Neither is accurate.
From the moment you meet Jesus in truth. You do not decide how you will enter God's house, God does. You are not the Lord. He is. You do what He says, by faith. You don't argue. You don't shout. You don't reinvent the wheel. You don't create the new Electronic pulpit Denomination. You sit down. You shutup. And gradually, as the Holy Spirit reveals to your innards....(just like David who said he meditated in God's courts....ie. it takes a while to twig)
your jaw begins to drop
and you begin to see
that little old you
are to be presented, by means of the Holy Spirit
and by following the steps of all the other saints
into a position that you can be entrusted
alongside your elder brother Jesus
with co reigning and co ruling
the very Universe!

Beats just going to church! Doesn't it?
But much more than this. As if this wasn't amazing enough.
You will learn that God chose you from the beginning, before time
to be Eternally wrapped up in
totally in love with, and receiving love from
His Bridegroom to be
JESUS.

So yes, God is particular. You bet He's particular! It's because He has to...He wants to
MAKE YOU LIKE HIMSELF, mature and lacking nothing....but IN HIM , not as some independent myth of a being,
which is the lie the devil spins.

The Old Testament Tabernacle of Moses was the cardboard cut-out model of the ETERNALLY existing NOW reality of heaven. For the latter see the book of Hebrews, for the former see Exodus 25.
Every single bit of furniture or object has a LIVING spiritual counterpart in the heavenly places and NOW in your spirit, which is the dwelling place of God if you are born again.
The other thing Moses Tabernacle is , is a photograph in time, a slow-motion play-(forward)....not playback...it was constructed before Jesus came,remember?
of Jesus death,resurrection and ascension. A microcosm of ALL that was going to be accomplished at the Cross.

So you enter the Courts of the Lord at the brazen altar. The different sacrifices here represent the different aspects of the way Jesus has dealt with you!!!!. His blood was shed to cover your sin for all time.
There were two goats to get over the two aspects of Jesus dealing with sin. The goat burned on the altar, was like Jesus offering His whole life, His last drop of blood to cover our sins.

The second goat was driven away into the desert. This is the little understood BODY DEATH of Christ.....the Bread part of the communion. We are primarily spirit, who have souls and a body. So when we bow to the Lordship of Christ, and ask for His Spirit to come in....He DOES....as OUR SOLE new identity. Like the goat, our old man...the sin spirit identity...was driven away at the Cross. Or more accurately, Jesus became our Sinspirit container, and like a rubbish bin, took our totally lost identity, our fallen identity into death with Him....and left it there at the Rubbish tip of hell. Just like the goat,driven into the wilderness, never to be seen again. Then the Holy Spirit did not leave Jesus in the grave, but resurrected Him
and more incredibly still
US in HIM
so that now our lives are hidden with Christ in God!!!!!Forever.Faith takes this as fact, and forever we are changed on our insides. Born totally new. The old HAS PASSED AWAY. Dave Bilbrough's song WAS completely accurate!!!!

THEN, WE GET WATER BAPTISED,TOTALLY IMMERSED TO CELEBRATE THE FACT
that like the Israelites through the Red Sea, who lost all their Egyptian pursuers in one swoop,
we are cut off from all the spirits of hell trying to haunt us. They have no part in us. It is true deliverance.
Now Jesus, who knew no sin, did not have the equivalent in his spiritual experience of some brazen altar. HE JUST HAD NO NEED. But interestingly He was immersed totally in the Jordan to fully represent, as NEW FEDERAL HEAD of what was about to happen. And the clarity of this is only coming now as I write.
He was stating, by His Body action, something prophetic and something new in the Earth.

All through the Old Testament, the corporate Body of God....Israel, had operated spiritually in the confines of the
OUTER COURT of redemption.....matters concerning forgiveness...and a "distant knowledge of God". Matters concerning the brazen altar, and washing in the 2nd item there, which was the laver. The laver stands for washing in the Water of His Word. It stands for the initiation and deliverance of baptism.
Baptism is us signing our signature on God's brazen altar signature....of God's Covenant. For 30 years,Jesus had lived in these corporate confines....but suddenly at 30 , he left His secular activities, receiving the ministry call on His life,He "stepped up to the plate" in Jordan , being baptised by John....

AND THIS WAS WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE SPIRIT, when Jesus was baptised in the Holy Spirit, in the very same way that you or I get baptised in the Spirit....

He was opening the DOOR for the Body of God in the Earth to the Kingdom
But now a KINGDOM of POWER
A KINGDOM in the HOLY SPIRIT
where ALL are now made priests. We are now a spiritual priesthood.
He was opening the DOOR in heaven corporately, that had never been opened since the Fall, to THE HEAVENLY HOLY PLACE. The middle area in the Tabernacle.He as the Forerunner, as the one injected into the line of Adam, in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh, yet knowing no sin,had stooped down from heaven...to this moment in Jordan

where he was taking the corporate Body of God onto a new trajectory. The LIFE of the HOLY PLACE. A life in the Holy Spirit. A life where man would manifest the supernatural powers of the age to come.

But at the Laver, before entering quite into the Holy Place, something else is true. Something that is really being spelled out in Francois Du Toit's Mirror translation of the New Testament. The Laver was a brass shiny bowl. It was highly reflective. This is important...but only if the two goats experience at the brazen altar has truly happened. When we look into the laver Mirror Word...we now nolonger see condemnation. We now nolonger see impossible demands made on us by the Law. We see Jesus in us. We are ONE spirit with Him. We are one spiritual identity with Him.
HE IS NOW THE LAW KEEPER IN US. Our task: to believe His Word. To believe ON the LAWKEEPER who indwells us.

From now on, we leave natural daylight. We receive the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Our dealings with God, functioning as priests, are uniquely by the Power of, in the flow of, in the timing of the Holy Spirit. In the Holy Place is the candlestick, representing this anointing. We see light in His Light....not in the light of our own previously humanistic understanding. Our priesthood is by this Light, not by our clever lists of drawn up agendas and schedules. We are beginning to be conformed to His full image in us. His ways of working and living in us. This is like the corporate charismatic experience the world church has now been familiar with, particularly in the last 100 years. In the next part we will continue on into God's House, also deriving clarity from a section of writing Daniel Yordy posted recently.
Part 2 is below
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Cathy Rheeder, Nancy Gilmore and Ole Henrik Skjelstad like this.
Chris Welch thx Ole....I like it too...or rather what God has done!!!!I think it's amazing.
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Eve Lao Amen! Thanks God for HIS amazing love!
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Cathy Rheeder Thanx chris,excellent!blessed.
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The Holy Place - the most dangerous place on Earth
You'll have heard that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The Holy Place is dangerous for this reason. We are. In the Holy Place we are armed...but still dangerous. We, ourselves are still " seeing" more than God. Give you an example:
some of the disciples were fishermen. While they were on the beach, mending their nets, or in their boats catching fish, they were not particularly dangerous. They were ordinary Jews. They knew about things like God, things like forgiveness, although unlike a modernday believer who knows he has asked Jesus into his or her life, they only later knew that "inner" knowing of Holy Spirit confirming to spirit that they were born again from the inside. This happened not in Acts 2 at Pentecost, but when Jesus "breathed His Spirit " upon them before ascending to the Father.

Having left their nets the disciples became dangerous. Living like we do after the Star Wars films were made we would say that Jesus taught them the ways of the Force. They were introduced to things like the Presence of God falling on a multitude. They were introduced to power manifestations. Of healing. Of totally unexplicable things. Miracles. For these, as forerunners of what we have experienced in the last 100 years in the charismatic movement, were being inducted into a whole corporate realm in God, that previously had been enjoyed by individuals, and rarely. Like prophets. Where you believe for things and they happen!

But if you are still seeing more than God this is dangerous. You see Jesus said quite openly and transparently, I only do what I see my Father doing. In another place, I must still work because I see my Father working still. But the disciples saw a whole lot more than what the Father was doing. Understand the word "see" in this context is an inward seeing. A set of internal thought processes that are like an operating system chuntering along underneath our conscious thought.This is where we do our "faith" seeing. But if like it says in Ezekiel 10 :8, the inner walls of our thoughtlife, our Temple life are scrawled with hateful things, with unclean things.....THIS DOES NOT MEAN our internal FAITHING mechanism, our "believe" machine will cease to operate. Now you're beginning to understand why the Holy Place experience is so dangerous.Exactly!

The disciples start to call down fire from heaven on a little village that has failed to receive them. Have you ever wondered what that meant? Maybe every where else received the Word but had offered them a cup of tea? Perhaps this village had not offered any drinks?

We do not know all the details of the offense....but Jesus neither endorses nor negates what they take offense in....what we do know is the FATHER is not pouring out any fire today....so ....seeing "more than God" falls into the territory of another spirit....a spirit from hell. Jesus was not sent to judge at this point. He was sent to preach. Whoever did not receive Him had Jesus withdraw and move on.

Having power but seeing more than God is like the sin of witchcraft. Dangerous. And sinful.
An evangelical. A denominational man. Perhaps a "burnt out" free believer, withdraws at this point. Too dangerous. Let's go back fishing.

That's not correct either.

The Purpose of the Holy Place
If it was correct the whole shape of the gospels would be more like a modernday theological seminary. A dry and waterless place where theories about an" out there God" are taught in a pretty abstract fashion. No, the things I am telling you are drawn from scripture, but are drawn also from my life experience. They are NOT dry and waterless theory. So in both what I "see" from scriptures in my innards, and what I have lived I can teach with some authority.
(But you don't have to submit to my pyramid if you don't want to.Sorry had to throw that one in. Me and pyramids don't like each other)

The HOLY PLACE is the nearest in God terms that you get to modern physics. It is a particle accelerator.
It is a WAY to the TRUTH machine. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. You can also express it in linear terms as He is the WAY to the TRUTH about you and about God; having been impacted at the base of your system,you're in a shape to now RECEIVE HIS FULNESS of LIFE in a complete 24 hour form...not just a "meeting" form.

The overall GOAL

Misconceptions

Denominational religion and especially Catholic religion has so confused the world as to what coming into God's House is for.It's made such a big thing of the Chasm between mortal humanity and a Transcendent God, that in this mindset, it has filled its church buildings with"Tabernacle reheated" paraphernalia. It's tried to yank Jewish Tabernacle furniture into a New Covenant context, but behaving in a Jewish Old Testament way...except the Jews had the actual Cloud and Pillar of Fire realities of God...oh.....and tons of sheeps and bulls.... Catholics say they have the "reality" of Christ in the "Transubstantiation" of the Bread and the wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus....but you only have true believers word for this. By far the majority of Catholics have no knowledge of being born again and baptised in the Spirit. The realities of which the Catholic structure speaks are not realities for the average Catholic.
So denominational religion leaves us with the idea that a select few go into the inner inner sanctums to fellowship there with the UNKNOWABLE GOD.

What the Tabernacle is really

Denominations haven't a clue that the Tabernacle is about you. God doesn't need a Tabernacle. He is Light. He is Life.He is joy. He is Love. He also doesn't need a house for you to approach Him. He needs a tabernacle for YOU to fuse with Him. For you to become like Him. So that YOU know that you know that you know (3 times for the 3 sections) that you have LIFE in HIM...and that you'll never LOSE it...oh....and that you know how to operate in it...

AS He is .....so are we in the world.

Jesus is the firstborn.........of many brethren. He though being divine, and for the joy set before Him, of having an innumerable company just like Him, operating just like Him,
spoke an eternal yes to the Father's intent when He said
Today I have begotten you.

What does begotten mean for an Eternal Person of the Trinity that has always existed. It means He has delightedly said yes to being BEGOTTEN in another format, forever. Human. Flesh and blood. Though for a while made lower than the angels....this format would change in the manner of the acacia box in the Holiest Place. Acacia is pretty ordinary looking like our humanity.
It is also a BOX. A container.
A container for God. God's glory.
Gold glory on the inside. Gold glory on the outside.

So all the time, these stupid church buildings ermmmm....built for the "glory of God"
WERE ABOUT YOU
being like HIM. Bone of His bone.Flesh of His flesh.

Yes, the holy place is dangerous....but is also the quickest,slickest means of getting God's life in you fully operational in.....well it took the disciples 3 years. Because we're coming out of a time in the 60s where Bishops were announcing the Death of God, it's taken us decades to retrace all the steps, and clear away the weeds
and do what our generation was called to

build a highway in the desert.
Raise up the former devastations....
enlarge the border of your tents......what? Beyond the charismatic movement? What could possibly be beyond that?Surely we'll fall off the edge of the known world. This way tharre be drrrragons!!!Arrrr!

It seems so stupid now that we thought Benny Hinn stadium meetings were the edge of God's purposes this side of eternity.There are still people on the earth that are convinced "the Land" is over the Jordan of Death.
That the Feast of Tabernacles sole fulfilment is some "marriage supper of the Lamb" in some future glory.

So running side by side are the two heavenly pictures for us, both for us corporately and individually.
The three places in the Tabernacle
The three Jewish Feasts of Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles. Now these feasts are all about the stages of harvest. Or what Ezekiel calls "wheels within wheels". You see one person's , or one corporate move's Tabernacles is going to be another's "entry point" or Passover and Pentecost. I puzzled over this for years. The clue is this.
Acts 2 was Pentecost for the 3000.....but for the apostles, who called themselves forerunners....it was their Tabernacles. One of the things that happens in Tabernacles is the Feast of Ingathering. More corn coming in. More harvest . More people.

On the one hand it is good to have evangelists preaching in and out of season. They are built that way....and they impart that spirit to the whole Body of Christ.It is a ministry gift anointing that resembles the huge arm of a combine harvester. "In you come folks". Deluge , deluge.....

On the other hand they are like headless chickens running around with this chip on their shoulders that nobody is helping them. Absolutely unaware...blissfully unaware...that the Lord of the harvest has everything in hand...and if they'd only teach the actual gospel a bit more
then all the harvest cycles would actually happen
the Kingdom leaven would spread in a seamless flow
and people would actually look a bit more saved in their lives than they do in our church, where half are on medication for depression, the other half are desperately sick. The overseeing pastor was clobbered in his knee as he was getting into a car...someone drove off too soon....and he goes to Bill Johnson's church to learn more about healing, and half loses the sight in one eye.

Saints...there's more to life than charismatic bubbletown living...like little Eden Project bubbles all over the world...cut off from normal life....and frankly walking a bit weirdly.....sort of charismatically. Until you've been out a few years, for me it was 10....you won't have a clue what Im talking about....for you it's still all great.
Stopping at charismaticville, or the Holy Place is the most dangerous place in the world.

A person will say to Jesus " Look, I did all these things in your name. i prophesied in your name."
Jesus will look Him straight in the eye and say
I never KNEW you
I never FUSED with you
I never Altar of INCENSED you to bring you into a permanent version of what you only knew in an external way in the charismatic movement
I tried to reach you from outside of your Eden Project Charismatic bubble, but you weren't having it,you never came out to join me
So sadly I say, Depart from me you unbeliever.
Whatddya mean unbeliever....I'm a man of faith....signs are following me everywhere
The One SIGN I asked you to believe for, you never believed
What sign?
That you would be a SIGN of my indwelling Life...Me fused as you.The Father at home in Me, now both at home in my Spirit in you.
Seek first the Kingdom of God and My Righteousness...Me living as you
and ALL these things.......

Daniel Yordy describes our passage through the Feasts this way:

The central word of the first feast, Passover, in its fulfillment in the life of the church, is grace. The central word of the second feast, Pentecost, is power. The central word of the third feast, Tabernacles, is authority.
Grace is the Greek word, charis, which means gift. Grace is God Himself present with us as our life as a gift to us. The blessing of the beginning of the Christian life is that God is now with us, we are no longer alone.
But the presence of God with us was knowledge only. We did not know that God impacted the physical world. Therefore we put everything off to a someday "heaven."
Then God brought us into the experience of Pentecost and we received power. The purpose of power is to be a witness of Christ. That is to show by demonstration that God Himself is present in the human, physical experience. We experienced the Bible becoming a new book to us, we saw miracles take place in physical bodies; we experienced supernatural provision and guidance - all means of God present with us more than just as an idea, but in outward demonstration of reality.
But both the knowledge that God is with us and the experience that He is with is in power all came to us as immature believers who did not know what God is doing. We knew that He is taking us on and up, but too many re-defined that upward call to mean "going to heaven" after physical death.
In the first feast, we lived in the outer court of the temple. We talked often about the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross - the brazen altar, and we pursued 'Bible study' - the brazen laver. When we heard there was more, we pressed on forward to enter into the Holy Place.
In the second feast, we lived in the Holy Place. We enjoyed the bread of truth, that is, the Bible as a living word; we walked in the light of the Spirit of God in ways we had not known in the outer court. But we heard there was more, so we pressed forward to the altar of incense, desiring to be consumed by its flame that we might rise up and enter into the Holy of Holies.
In moving out of the outer court into the Holy Place, we left many of our brethren behind who were quite content with the outer court and had no desire for anything more from God in this life. In moving towards the altar of incense, we left many of our brethren behind who were quite content with the Holy Place, with the bread and the light, the provision and the joy, and had no desire for anything more from God in this life.
But the altar of incense itself can be a place that many choose to set up their dwelling place, convinced that the entrance into all the fullness of God revealed in us will not actually happen in this life and on this earth. They are content to wait until their physical bodies perish and go into the grave before they enter into the Holy of Holies.
The third feast is entirely different.
In the first feast, God with us was a nice idea, but kept in a distant sort of way, back then, up there, some day. In the second feast, God with us became much more relevant and real to our daily life. But still, we were one and God was another. We saw ourselves separate from God, and we saw 'God with us' in only a limited way.
To enter the third feast, to enter the Holy of Holies, we must become the smoke of the incense, that is, we must disappear into God. To enter the third feast, we let go of any claim to a 'self' identity , to being some person, separate from God's person. We now see that we are one spirit with the Lord, that He carries every part of ourselves inside Himself and that He lives in every part of us, right now, as we are in this world.
But in entering the third feast, we do not 'leave behind' any part of the first or second feasts. Rather, those things pertaining to those two feasts, the elements of our salvation and the power of the Holy Ghost, are raised into a closeness and personal-ness beyond what we ever understood before.
Here is what is different about living in the third feast.
We are no longer going forward into God. Rather, we are seated upon the mercy seat, the throne of God, and we are looking out towards His creation, seeing now with His perspective, seeing all things as He sees them. God with us has swallowed us up completely and now it has become that we are with God. Now we are caught in the passion and power of His determination. He moves through us to prove His will in the earth.

The rest of the article describes what we are moving into authority for....to speak the Word and address the last Enemies. http://www.dyordy.com/Archives/AndTheyShallNourishHerThere.html
Related to this is the series we have both contributed to describing our Psalm 24 mandate to speak to the Ancient Doors
http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2010/09/recent-history-of-psalm-24-part-1-first.html

Maurice Smith: Will the true apostle please stand up?

Chris Welch on Facebook...........Gracebook....I'dlike to share about a ministry to give you an example of how Word works. He was big in the 70s. Maurice Smith.

8 hours ago via BlackBerry · Friends only ·LikeUnlike · Comment · View feedback (19)Hide feedback (19).


Judy Povey bring it on :o)
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch There was Bryn Jones,Gerald Coates,,Arthur Wallis ,Dave Mansell,John Noble,George Tarleton,Terry Virgo, John McLaughlin and many many more taking the renewal out of tonguetalkin denominational sectarianism into a "word hearing cloud followin'" People.
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch Nearly all of them would have used the word apostle to describe themselves, and some like Terry still would.....but I want to tell you a Cinderella Kingdom fact.PROBABLY Only ONE WAS....and he to this day probably doesn't know....because most saw him as a prophet. Maurice Smith.
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Judy Povey That's interesting. I don't remember the name Maurice Smith although of course I remember most of the other names. I was part of a harvesttime fellowship (Bryn Jones) in Ipswich for a few years. The "shepherding" style of leadership eventually drove most of us out and we re-grouped independently. Now that same fellowship is in the New Frontiers family.
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch It may be all the others were "apostles" of what Ern Baxter referred to (speaking of David in Thy Kingdom Come) as a ZIKLAG job.....God's initial purpose of positioning people. But who remembers a solitary word of what Gerald and John Noble and George Tarleton were saying 40 years on? Yet first in a book called 5.5.55 ,then in "Amazing Grace" some 40 years before Steve McVey, Paul Anderson Walsh, and Darin Hufford are all the TRULY important apostolic foundations of a REAL Christian life.
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch Maurice is virtually unknown now too.....but his foundation is the only living vibrant one of all of them here on the net. The others knew how to get you saved and filled with the Spirit.So did Christine and I when we were 13, but we never ...called ourselves apostles....or anything else really. No....I think we've all lived under a 40 year illusion that because you're a Type A personality with an organisational ability to hire a school hall and a worship group,and preach a reformed "Baptist" type "You are not measuring up to this New Testament Law" Word, this is truly an apostle. Baloney!See more
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch The Word of the grace of Christ layered into a believer's insides,imparting to them faith and hope is what an apostle is. In 1981 Maurice twigged finally what Norman Grubb was going on about, and saw the fulness of "Christ in Maurice as Maurice".Others saw a weak man crippled by paralysing fears and gutwrenching nerves....Maurice now understood himself as "God's grace made perfect in weakness" "a vessel container of God's glory."
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch Hasn't it been an interesting road here in the UK and the States Judy? Both the Fort Lauderdale crew who were a big feature for us in Amersham....Don Basham lit the fuse in 67 or 8, and the Pioneer,New Frontiers,Harvesttime crews were ident...ical in bringing Word,bringing the start of Church order.....but not being properly 3rd level,in the longterm built nothing more than "human franchises" from which devastations Spirit people are crawling from Terminator film-style all over our 2 countries. May God bless the net,so long as we have freedom to share.See more
7 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch Reading thru this did you understand "the only living vibrant" foundation was the one Maurice brought as opposed to the other 70s names.....I didn't mean as opposed to Steve McVey or others now on the net. Wanted to avoid confusion and pain here.
7 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Judy Povey It has been an interesting road Chris. How I loved listening to Ern Baxter - he came to the Anglia Bible Week in 1983. And first of all we called our groups house churches which they soon weren't because we moved into community halls and ...we soon got stuck in legalism again. But we're all groping for the truth and I've struggled with the paradoxical (?)/conflicting Biblical themes and narratives and finally come home to trusting in JESUS. Is that what Maurice meant by "the only living vibrant" foundation? Is there anything on the web about Maurice Smith?See more
7 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Interesting Chris. True apostles never draw attention to themselves but to Christ. They are the pioneers of the faith because they lead the way, they plant new things overturn the status quo. Those guys probably did have apostolic anointing... but were also responsible for error in the church (the heavy shepherding movement) because they saw themselves as apostles overseeing what God had not given them any authority for. Unfortunately the charismatics have still not got over the control that introduced. In the Brethren movement the same thing happened, anointed men of God rose up and paved the way for the people of God but then became institutionalised and people looked to them rather than God.See more
6 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch Not that I've seen....in fact if you google you might end up in the excerpts I've been putting up,I think firstly on Dan Bowens Baxter blog and mine too.
6 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_New_Church_Movement
6 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch Exactly how long do you think itis Paul that we get away from believing the work of God is something like believing on His spoken Word something like Mary in Nazareth....to the point where we chase round building "things'....as if we can bu...ild the Kingdom in Lego or something.We can't even put together a human in a womb....in flesh and blood terms....how do we end up with the notion that we can "put Christ together on earth ". Is this an advanced Lego kit that only the Brethren and charismatics know about? Have I been reading my Bible wrong all this time ?
6 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble I was thinking - the metaphor the Bible uses is living stones - Lego is definately not in my Bible LoL. Those stones are all different sizes and colours and shapes & also change when your not looking! It is only when they come to Christ they fit into this glorious temple that God is building!
5 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Abundant Grace Church Always great to hear such people
4 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch I'm really young in understanding how "builder-types" work. It is alien to me as a musician/philosopher type. I noticed the ease with which the St Matthew-types, or St Peter types , or Rory and Wendy types, or Stan Warren of Emsworth..or Andy Elmes guys have built a framework before breakfast.They are made that way in God.cont..
4 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch Outside of God though,they seem to build things and call them God. As I was saying,I naively went along with everyone's notions that they were apostolic.....but now I see them as builder types,but it isn't the same thing at all as Fred Prui.tt or others who are actually laying the Word of "Christ as you" in folk. This level has NOTHING to do with buildings...or even meetings,directly....this is to do with impacting people's life for the WHOLE of the rest of their lives....DIVINE encounters. Like when Jessie Penn Lewis was a few hours with Norman Grubb....and he was still reeling with what hit him at his "seeing level" at age 97. It makes the toytown stuff in our locality pretty cheap!!!See more
4 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Interesting again Chris - I think you will find that the musician/artist/philosopher types are often prophetically gifted (I am partly of that bent). HOWEVER I believe both giftings (Apostolic & prophetic) need more than their natural equiv...alent Eg in the secular you get these sort of giftings in the art & business world. I do wonder sometimes whether people are operating more in a natural gifting rather than a spiritual one and that is why we end up with yet another structure or music that is just a copy of what the world is doing with christian words.

--------------------------------------

first appeared here in Chris's Preblog on Dan Bowen's ErnBaxter blog Comments section

Yesterday when I got up my eyes caught a book I have not noticed for over 20years...by Maurice Smith
called 20th Century Pilgrim ISBN 0 947599 03 7 publishers VINE. here is Chapter 1. If you like it I could do chapter 2 which is on Maurice discovering he is dead (in a Romans kind of way).
-----------------------------------
Go on, go on, go on, go on,
Go on, go on, go on;
Go on, go on, go on, go on,
Go on. go on, go onl
I first heard those words 'go on. go on' from Henry Holloway some twenty-five years ago. The de-nomination without a name that we were in, had no set rules and regulations, or fixed doctrines and dogmas; but we had a great deal of unwritten liturgy. For instance, we used no Christian names,well hardly any. Everyone was Brother this and Brother that. Brother Holloway was around eighty years old I guess, so of course he naturally became','Old Brother Holloway'. I don't think anyone has influenced me more. He was a university graduate, in his youth - a rarity in those days - and spoke 'with a highly cultured diction, which disguised an
almost constant chuckle. He was diminutive of stature, neatly dressed with a watch-chain resplendant across his striped waistcoat. There was a permanent twinkle in his eyes. Time and again he would sidle up to me and whisper a word of wisdom in my ear. This particular 'go on' word has been with me ever since the day he looked me straight in the eye and delivered it with all the seriousness of a Shakespearian actor.

Now two and a half decades later, on a sweltering hot Sunday afternoon, the first of August. 1982 I am pursuing those same words 'Go on, go on as they’re emblazoned on-.the back of a young man's T-shirt in the Dartford half-marathon. I'm now a veteran runner and strenuously trying to maintain form to keep up with the wearer, but I do so enjoy seeing young men, and women on full stretch for the tape. Little does the T-shirt wearer know that his disappearing vest is speaking volumes to me in another dimension; the dimension that O.B.H. had opened up to me time and time again. He finished his course, we're still running on.I seem destined to be influenced by old men. At about the same time as I was listening to the thoughts of Brother Holloway, I used to sit at conferences and watch the face of an old gentleman who I would estimate was well into his seventies. This an's name was Oliphant - Brother Oliphant of course. Watchman Nee once called this old warrior The Womb of theWest, and  across the lines of his face were he signs of suffering and I knew just a few of the details and the cost involved. Looking at him across the conference hall I grew to respect that lined face and silently asked God to give me some of the peace    tranquility I could see written there. Somehow,those dissimilar twins of gaiety and suffering, so admirably portrayed in two of the Lord's old gentlemen, have set a course for me through the middle part of my life. They hadn't stopped going on. They
were satisfied but not satiated. My mind was made up; I'm in the race of joy and suffering for a lifetime. I didn't know it then, but I was beginning to accept the need for darkness as well as light, to make room for pain and sorrow; to receive the negative side of God and his creation as well as-the positive. Perhaps then I saw all the unpleasantness as mere back-drop to  the good God wanted to do in the world, whereas the years have begun to teach me how essential suffering is to produce character and to enable us to finally reign with him ...but I begin to run away with myself. Much of the time, this was a light-hearted period of life. Jesus
and me, in good fellowship, and my acceptability as a preacher falsely giving me the impression that
I was making really good headway in this Christian business. Looking back I can see there was a lot of self-
effort in my believing, but no doubt it's all been necessary. So often we have to labour to enter into our rest. Then I felt I knew so much of God's eternal plan end purpose. Although I vehemently declared there was no set pattern for church structure and order in the New Testament, I had secretly come to believe that we were nearer the ideal than most. I'd swallowed volumes of Watchman Nee and T. Austin-Sparks and spent hours under the expert tuition of Robert Warke from Ireland. I felt ready to set in order much that was awry in the church scene. Oh my, what the intervening years have contributed towards the maturity I saw in those aged saints. It’s been painful and it’s been fun; like everything else I’ve encountered with God, ther’s a paradox to grasp and live with.

I suppose we all start with a vision. For me, overriding everything else in my life were the the words of Jesus’ prayer in John 17 “that they may all be one…that the world may believe that you have sent me”.
There seemed so few in those early days that were concerned for a togetherness. Plenty were ready to go for an old style evangelism, but the results were unimpressive, except in the case of a few very talented individuals. It was the corporate nature of our life gripped me. Somehow it wasn't just that I had etemal life now that I had believed in Christ, but more importantly that we shared it together. We really were members of one another and were meant to be together, get on together,and be such a visible provocation to the world that they'd want to know what we had got. This all seemed a million miles away from the experience
going on around me, where all I could see-was .break-up and division, back-biting and hurts, and people so full of insecurity that they didn't seem any better off than folk who had not experienced the great transaction of salvation through knowing Jesus Christ. In fact, to be honest, very often they seemed worse off. I remember doing a very simplistic survey once, when I observed over a period, and recorded, that the Christians in my street looked, on average, more miserable than their non-Christian counter-parts. There just had to be an
answer to such a sorry condition, "where the recipients seemed to have an initial experience of joy ; and first love, and then gradually sink back into a knowledge of their position, without the attendant radiance that was there at the beginning. Actually as l say, I didn't fully identify with this morbid Christian scene for several years because I was able to hide behind my preaching and natural charisma,but the crunch came when I finally felt dry. wearied of marking time. and began to search for more light and truth . The vision of the Church continually gripped me; "That they might be one' pounded in my ears day and night. Here was I with the Normal Christian Life and Concerning Our Missions To be called the Normal Christian Church Life
off pat; but I couldn't make it work. I was learning that revelation was not enough, and that the Father's way is to allow suffering to come across our path. In order to guide us into the realising of what we have seen.' He wanted what we had taken hold of to take hold of us, so that there was no strain in our living.How could I get all these Christians to be a happy band of pilgrims? How could we live the joyous overcoming life I saw portrayed as normal in so many New Testament Christians and others since them down the centuries? How could we in our generation produce men and women of the calibre of those I so admired? The visible church to my century was a laughing stock, the ready prepared material for the comedians and cartoonists. I could
no longer hide my grief and despair that. for all the ardent preaching of the vociferous minority, we were having next to no impact.

The arrival of the world-wlde charismatic movement and the consequent opening up to the Holy Spirit made a difference. But in my own experience, after the initial course of joy and the use of several spiritual gifts, I still found that life was far short of all I knew it could be. I thought the baptism in the Holy Spirit, as so many called the . experience, was going to settle everything, but far from it In fact. it seems that for me, that  experience marked the commencement of a long period of severe dealings. Maybe as John the Baptist warned we were to be baptised with the Holy Spirit and fire .Everyone I listened to conveniently forgot
the fire. They never promised me that . I usually tell folk that ever since the days of my deeper knowing
of the Hdy Spirit, life has been quite dreadfel. Sorry if that doesn't/fit the recognised charismatic theology. but it's the truth. Like Jacob, I've experienced 'the gate of heaven' and 'a dreadful place' both at the same time. There has been a new sense of the presence of the Lord; a new joy, plus depths of darkness and despair that I never dreamed existed.

Certainly had I known the path ahead I would never have joined, but for me the Christian life seems best summed up in the title of Norman Grubb's book, 'Once Caught. No Escape!' Most of us are in for keeps.
The original slide-away from the joyous consciousness of his life within me and into the subtle dependence upon laws and methods and arbitrary standards of performance, had been instigated almost from the moment of my conversion. On that magic day in 1955, I had given my life to Christ; lock. stock and barrel, as best I knew how. I awoke the next day with the assurance of my reconciliation to God and a feeling of peace."

Everything seemed okay. There was now no desire for the thirty cigarettes a day which were my previous assurance of some semblance of calm amidst the storms of earning a living and bringing up a young family. As soon as work on the first day was over I shot down to the rectory to tell my good news to the rector. Dr. G. C. B. Davies, who had been instrumental in my final capitulation to God and I wanted him to share the enjoyment. He was, I was informed, at the village hall to officiate at a function, so I ran all the way there and burst in with my proclamation. Collis was delighted and confided that the Lord had told him that one person
would be converted under his ministry in the Cotswold village of Kingham where we all lived at the time. He moved on to pursue a more academic calling and was soon a lecturer at a University and eventually became Canon of Worcester Cathedral.

But I digress. I asked where a close friend was, for I wanted her to join the party. I had a river of living water
gushing up inside of me and I wanted everyone to drink. Soon I found her, and with the strains of the amateur musicians in the background I shared with her my testimony. She was absolutely overjoyed and we laughed together in quite a natural manner. I followed on the conversation by saying. as the river of life continued to rise in me:
'Can I have this dance please?'

It was a kind of celebration act to me. I can't  remember now whether she accepted or not, because I was so stunned by her reply. She leaned forward and whispered to me, 'Christians don't dance, Maurice!'
0h dear,' was my word in response. It was a strangely disappointing interchange and I was temporarily confused. However, I soon recovered and sallied forth into my new found Christian experience with great enthusiasm, but almost imperceptibly the first chain of bondage had gone round my leg. A law had been applied. It was not the inward working of God writing in my heart, but the external application of a mode of behaviour that was to gradually stifle the thrilling experience , of walkjng with the presence of God's spirit within me. I had taken a step away from grace, which meant God doing something for me  and I had moved into an area of law, which meant me doing something for God. And this had happened within
twenty-four hours of my conversion!

I can now see that like many Israelites of old, I was born a free true child of God, but born in a land of captivity.  There were folk on every hand to tell me what I I had to do to become a good Christian. Soon I had  more and more rules to observe. One well-meaning ; soul upon hearing of my conversion, asked me if I
was having a Q.T.
'What's that?' I enquired, by now perplexed; I' ve  ' never heard of it.'Then followed the serious explanation of a regular Quiet Time. A period of study and meditation held early in the morning without which no serious
Christian could possibly exist. A necessary discipline I was told. No one told me to treasure the spirit within, but how to polish up the externals.

Before long I heard,'You realise Billy Graham reads five Psalms and three Proverbs every day -should you do less?' Oh dearl A sense of heaviness is coming over me,the honeymoon is passing, It's time to get down to
the nitty-gritty chores of married life with God. I think I'm losing my first love. I've failed to keep the 'ten commandments of the Old Testament and they had led me to Christ as the only hope. Now I've got to get down to the business of keeping the one hundred and ten commandments of the New Testament. Then I couldn't commit adultery, now I mustn't even have an appreciative glance according to some. Murder was out under Moses but now I mustn't hate anyone. Of course it wasn’t long before I was disliking people intensely
but loving them in the Lord', whatever that sickly phrase means, This 'love' didn't seem to be having
much effect on them that's for sure. Well, here's a fine dilemma; in thesame breath, senior Christians
telling me to trust, and not try, and here's what you must do. One classic contradiction of advice came when I was seeking guidances over a particular matter. Within hours of each other two well- meaning advisors stated...
'When in doubt, do "nowt"' and 'When in doubt, strike out!'

I realised that I was going to have to find some easier way than this; but I didn't. I opted for getting down to it. Searching the scriptures daily, for I felt in them I had eternal life.12 Praying long and hard,trying to keep my mind from wandering. Taking communion as often as possible and getting into condemnation every time my mind wandered on to the Arsenal Football Club instead of the Lord's great sacrifice for me. I so wanted to be a good Christian I so wanted to please God, that I gradually took from OB this new life-style; this do-it-yourself Christianity, this self-improvement plan! And, compared with many others, I became good at it. In public I was a most impressive pray-er and was often asked to lead in prayer at public gatherings. I could pray in spiritual jargon for the best part of twenty minutes,telling God things he knew before the foundation el
the world, but I couldn't call him Dad- (Abba)" and get an answer.

Something was wrong somewhere. This fight against sin, this strained endeavour to be a successful Christian. The great burden that dropped off me at conversion seemed to have crept back on again; but I had to keep up the front I was telling people that I was the one with the real joy and they, the non-christians, were the ones who were unhappy. I did wish some of them wouldn't be so nice though.That first-love excitement had soon worn off; mind you I still had the inner assurance of salvation and that wasn't to be sneezed at. I
knew where I was going, even if the present was not too enjoyable. That eternal life seemed to have slid into the future tense somehow, and I wanted to share some of its thrill and excitement along with all the others in my new-found family. That corporate quality of life was supposed to make such an impact upon secular society; they were supposed to be asking what was the secret behind this great spontaneous expression of carefree living. 'Pie in the sky when we die' Christianity was not such a Crowd-puller. We seemed to be answering questions that nobody was asking, and that's rude. I suppose for me the prime example of this was one day set forth in the delightful Cornish seaside resort of Port Isaac. I was the guest speaker at Stan and Marjorie  Bates' Christian guest house, and after dinner one Tuesday evening I strolled down to the harbour for a breath of sea air  and to take in the local atmosphere. T

The town band was playing on the harbour front and,. After I had listened for a while they struck up the Floral Dance and headed up the steep hill towards the guest house. Hundreds of holidaymakers formed up behind and began the traditional one-two-three hop. Well. you can't keep me out of that sort of thing (but I do hasten to add (that incident occurred after my baptism in the Holy Spirit because before then I would have felt such enjoyment to be rather worldly. Probably the effect of the no- dance routine I had got into). As we passed the guest house I peeled off and danced up the pathway and into the lounge where I was due to give my spiritual talk for the evening. One ultra-respectable lady looked across the room and commented in a frosty manner,
'Here comes our carnal brother' I looked around for support.'That's nothing,' said Stan, coming to my aid, ;
'we had someone so irate in here one night, because the band was holding up our Bible study, that she rushed out to witness to them. After a few moments she returned triumphant,' "Did you manage to speak to them about the Lord?" I enquired,' said Stan. "There was too much noise," she replied, "but I did manage to poke a tract down someone's trombone"'

What are we coming to? Was this the life that sprang from a relationship with God? Were these sincere but unhappy people to be my companions on this long pilgrimage? I did hope not; it seemed to be getting more and more restricted along the way. and many of these fellow travelers had evidently settled for restriction; but something' inside me just wouldn't settle; as O.B.H. had said, I had to 'go on'.