Showing posts with label Five fold ministry. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Five fold ministry. Show all posts

Monday, 3 November 2025

50 years to where we are now

 

But  First  Torben Sondergaards Latest News letter 


Dear friends,

We hope you are all doing well. πŸ™

We are sending out this newsletter to our family in The Last Reformation, to give you a little glimpse of what God is doing right now — and it’s truly something special.


This last weeks we’ve been gathering and working closely with friends from all over the world:

Armando (Mexico), Olivier (Canada), Edouard (France), Enco (Croatia), Joah (Netherlands), JΓ³n (France), Robbert (Netherlands), JoΓ«l (Switzerland), Remon (Netherlands), and Todd (Mexico). πŸ‡²πŸ‡½πŸ‡«πŸ‡·πŸ‡­πŸ‡·πŸ‡³πŸ‡±πŸ‡«πŸ‡΄πŸ‡¨πŸ‡­πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ


Each week we’ve been talking and praying together about how to create a movement — learning, sharing, and seeking God together about how we can see growth, multiplication, and unity, both within The Last Reformation and alongside other churches.



🌎 The Movement and the Churches


It’s been beautiful to see how God is leading us to work in two main directions:

Strengthening The Last Reformation as a movement — building, multiplying, and helping it grow stronger across nations.

Working together with existing churches — helping pastors and leaders experience true discipleship and multiplication within their congregations.

It reminds us of how Peter and Paul each had their focus — one reaching the Jews, the other the Gentiles.

In the same way, some of us are focusing more on helping traditional churches come alive, while others are focusing on strengthening the movement itself.


There are countries where The Last Reformation is already growing strong — with unity, fruit, and multiplication. These places serve as examples for others.

Then there are countries where the work is still young and needs more leadership and direction. That’s why leaders from the stronger countries have come together to pray, plan, and help the others — so we can see a stronger and healthier global network emerge.


More information about this will be coming out in the next month or two, as many exciting new developments are taking shape!



πŸ‡³πŸ‡΄ What God Is Doing in Norway


I (Torben) am currently in Norway, working closely with several churches.

The past week has been very full — sometimes with two or three meetings per day — meeting pastors and leaders who are hungry for discipleship and transformation.


I’ve been sharing with them why God called me to Norway and what I believe He wants to do here. Many new doors have opened!


We are now beginning weekly trainings for pastors and leaders, where I share the principles of discipleship.

I’m also starting two weekly training sessions inside local churches to help them walk in obedience and multiplication.


I believe this will be a very fruitful season. As we begin to see transformation and fruit — just like we saw in Mexico — more and more churches will open their doors.


I truly believe that what God is doing here in Norway will be talked about across the nation and throughout Europe.

This is just the beginning of something new.


God took me into jail for a reason.

He worked deeply in my heart there.

He gave me a vision for the church while I was in jail.

And now, I’m seeing the fruit of that season.


But it was not only me God worked on in jail — He was also working in the hearts of many others at the same time.

Our friend Olivier from Canada is a great example. He is now beginning to see many open doors in Canada, working with local churches and starting new trainings there.

I truly believe that what God has begun in him will grow and spread — and that we will soon hear powerful testimonies coming out of Canada and America as well.


So all over the world, there are amazing things happening! 🌎

Please stay tuned — in the coming weeks and months, we’ll share more about what God is doing through this growing movement.


If you haven’t read my book “412 Days”, I encourage you to do so.

It’s a very real and honest book where I share the transformation I experienced in jail and the vision I’m now living out here in Norway.

πŸ“– 412Days.com



πŸŽ₯ New Teaching: The Five-Fold Ministries


We have just released the next teaching in the How to Create a Movement series — and this one is very special.

It’s about the Five-Fold Ministries, which I now see as a key to building the church 

to maturity 







I replied 


Torben ,
Since my conversion in 1972 and prior these things stick out as stepping stones forward 
1963 ground breaking meeting about baptism in the Spirit , Fairfield Hall Croydon.
Morris Cerullo , Selwyn Hughes , Michael Harper , launch of Fountain Trust 
1971 Jean Darnall instruction to prophetic lighting of torches ....the old communication system via tops of hills but starting from London and radiating out ....which indeed happened with the start of baotised in the Spirit house churches 
Jesus Move among teens and young 20s
Teaching on praise Internationally - Mervyn and Merla , Ed Miller , Merlin Carrothers books , Jorge Pradas churches out of Argentina 
Mid 70s Bible weeks on victorious church 
Discipleship Move which was still too pyramid like secularism 
Sam Fife , GH Warnock Third Feast Revelation 
1985 Norman Grubb Yes I Am about the total replacement at the Cross . The key to the liberated life . Romans 6 to 8

So in about 20 to 30 years from GHWarnocks 1951 Third Feast Booklet we went from legacy church structure of basically a rabbi synagogue towards the foundations we need for ecclesia , the sort of church that can handle City on a Hill like Jesus first church with 12 non jostling Joel 2 style elders. 

Our whole recent history has been solo empowered figures like yourself. 
But Keswick conferences , Morris Cerullos school of ministry , Fort Lauderdale that went wrong , is a heads up towards the 14 ministry types in Pauls 3 lists and taking saints through the 1 John 2 3 stages of growth .

Jorge Pradas and Watchman Nee introduced life centric Bible and prayer training houses . I was in one from 1978 to 1984 , with many breakthroughs plus big unsolved problems , like me . Then God showed me how Genesis 3 lying platform works as a delusion .

Going into our inner room 
Plus 
Learning the training of 1 Corinthians 12 meetings and 3 DIVERSES .....plus learning to read one anothers frequency of personality......

Is how small functional 'tabernacles ' or ecclesia of local pillars and ground of truth are raised up , which can hold open heaven in a place, like Jerusalem . Its a bit death defying because by then all the forces of hell ard trying to break it up or persecute it out of the region as we saw in Acts .

So in 50 years we now see glimpses of something starting to look a bit more permanent than conferences lasting a few days .

Chris Welch  

Thursday, 10 November 2016

Honour: Who are you Calling Good?

Bill Johnson is ofcourse correct about the "dynamic " of honoring people but in the thirdlevel everything is much more precise, less fuzzy.
In the first and second stages of Christian growth we only perceive things approximately. Pretty soon like Jesus we will be whirling round on people to question them from which spirit they are moving. "Good Master" someone said. Jesus said "Who are you calling Good - there is only One who is Good and that is My Father in heaven."
In other words are you still seeing double? Seeing in separation. Honoring me as if i am some independent self-run soul.....or are you honoring MY Source of Goodness who is My Father in heaven, and you are receiving Him in Me, which is after all my AUTHENTIC self, my spirit self.
Union makes everything clear.
It's seeing with a single eye.
God going on in the flesh.
This then is the power of honoring people.
All you are doing is seeing and recognizing and affirming God going on in them. That is why it has such a glorious ZING about it.
Let us now praise famous men.....the sentence and hymn from Ecclesiasticus, the apocryphal book and so much the mainstay of "Greek-style" secular education in boarding schools, and grammar schools....
This to me at any rate, has always been twisting our arm to try and admit that these great names are great in their own right as independent selves apart from God and therefore we are honoring Satan's lie, Satan himself.....that we can be "independent".
This to me is the spirit behind ancestor worship which surely is a portal for secondheaven fallen heavenly beings to be given leverage on OUR EARTH.....as spirit guides,as "Masters".
What I have just written is VITAL in understanding how Christ's gifts to the church operate. Apostles prophets pastors and teachers, and evangelists ARE charismatic ministry giftings to the Church. They are not, as secular people have it, just flavours of talkers....people giving talks to the church as they call it.
NO out of their bellies flow the Spirit power to get precise Spirit jobs done.
BUT BUT....this all connects with
spontaneous Life
God's NOW Presence
the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy
Guard your HEARTS for out of them flow the fountains of life.
This is spirit to spirit communication. It switches things on in the Spirit. A carnal person hasn't been born again so cannot even hear on this register yet, so ascribes the carnal word "talk" to what is really a supernatural gift of utterance.
The grace gift of God FLOWS
It comes out of our innards and flows to another person.
Jesus knew when He healed people like the Canaanite woman because He felt the power flow out of His Body.
When the five ministry gifts operate they feel Jesus Christ Himself being imparted.
But people hanging onto their coat tails as if they are something in themselves. Well, in Acts, people on one island (Malta?) tried to do that with Paul and Barnabbas. "hey these guys are gods....Zeus etc No Paul and Barnabas weren't having any of that. So the people immediately tried to stone them.
This is the minister's dilemma. The people WANT to enter into an "illicit" relationship with you. They are still living in the independent self. They haven't grown up yet in the Lord.
But you HAVE to back off in the Spirit . YOU CANNOT join them in their spiritual adultery. They are trying to relate with you "apart from the Lord", this is when you turn on them like Jesus and say "Who are you calling good, or great? We are but servants of the Living Lord Jesus. We do as He says, and when he isn't saying we are powerless."

Saturday, 15 September 2012

KOG12 - Defining God;Defining Man by Daniel Yordy

The Kingdom of God series has just been published by Amazon as a book entitled "The Kingdom Rising". Here is your chance to read it for free, and if you like it to buy copies for  your friends. Daniel's other book "the Jesus Secret" has just come out too.

This current article in PDF and audio can be found here
"What is man?"
David 

"There is a man after My own heart." God
"He who has seen Me has seen the Father." Jesus the Son of David
I have an entire series titled What is Man. But since man is the spitting image of God in both earth, the physical side of the creation, and heaven, the spiritual side of creation, it is impossible to define man without first defining God.
What is God?
Now, here we could say all sorts of grand-sounding things. We could say that God is an invisible Spirit or that He is the Creator and Sustainer of all things. We could even say that God is love and truth and life. The problem with saying these things is that they are, to us in themselves, ideas. God is not an idea (though He is certainly Love).
Now, we understand that the Bible says many things about God, but that, almost in opposition to the things "said about God," God shows Himself to His creation as He really is only through Jesus.
And thus we come full circle. The way God gave us to know and to define Him is by a Man, Christ Jesus.
We cannot define man without first defining God because man was created just like God. To enable us to know God, God sent a Man. We can only truly define God by looking at that Man.
To those who live in the tree of knowledge, this is all mindless gobbledygook and faulty circular logic to be rejected out of hand.
To those who walk in union with Christ, this makes perfect sense. God is Himself; man walking in utter union with God, reveals God to His creation. Thus man "looks like" God because God is always showing Himself through man.
Never do we say, "This over here in me is 'God,' but that other over in that part of me is 'man.'" No. We know in our own hearts the One who fills and the one who contains and reveals. We know that we are one with Him and with each other. We know that God reveals Himself through all the silly idiosyncrasies of the human. We know that others, by seeing us, see the Father showing Himself through Christ, the only life we are. We know there is no meaningful distinction.
Enter the dragon.
Lucifer is not like God, not now and not in the beginning when he stood in perfection before all creation. Lucifer was the "greatest" of all creation. He was the smartest, the largest, the most beautiful, and the most gifted creature God designed. Lucifer, in his superiority - he was also granted the place of covering over all creation, the anointed cherub who covers - convinced himself that God made him that way in order to show all creation the "superiority" of God.
Lucifer looked at himself and liked what he saw.
Now, if Jesus shows us the Father, that is, if we can know God as He really is only by seeing Jesus, walking upon this earth, then we must understand that every point of Jesus' life and walk is telling.
[Don't make the mistake of mis-defining Paul's statement in 2 Corinthians 5 that we no longer know Him "according to the flesh." That is not talking about Jesus revealing God in human form. That is talking about how we see. We ourselves no longer see Jesus as if we are separate from God, that is, according to the flesh."]
Paul built the entirety of his gospel upon two or three obscure phrases found in odd places in the Old Testament. The words "faith" and "grace" are found only once or twice in all the Old Testament. Yet Paul understood that because those phrases were there, they must rule all things. If God said, "The just shall live by faith," one time by one obscure and late prophet, then that word must rule all things God said in the Old Testament, even to obliterate the strongest statements of the law (Galatians 3).
In the same way, the two most important points of the revelation of God through Jesus are not stated directly in the gospels; they are only implied. Yet their implication must, by the very nature of those two things, rule everything else we know about the definition of God given to us - called Jesus.
The most important point is the bodily resurrection of Jesus. The gospel accounts imply that bodily resurrection, but no direct account of it is found in the narrative. The second most important point is found the Friday morning before.
Consider carefully. In particular, every step Jesus took from Gethsemane to the open tomb is the very fabric and being of Almighty and Eternal God showing Himself AS HE REALLY IS, not just to earth, but to all heaven as well.
[Paul and Peter are clear, the highest angels of heaven do not know God; they are waiting with great anticipation for a future age when they will finally know Him through us (1 Peter 1 & Ephesians 3).]
And in the middle of that tearing open of the very fabric, heart, and being of God - Who is this guy who calls Himself "Father"? - the narrative implies the very most extraordinary thing that we could possibly know about God.
He stumbles and falls on His face; He cannot carry His own cross, nor does He do one thing to defend Himself against anyone. He does not have "what it takes." He is certainly not "manly."
These two things go hand in hand: a God of weakness rising out of death.
God is always stumbling and falling, never defending Himself; God is always rising out of death, ascending above all things. The moment of time when Jesus stumbled under the cross, not calling on 10,000 angels, the moment of time when Jesus' body "came alive" and He walked out of the tomb, are simply the true nature of time. That is, those moments are the eternal nature and being of God showing Himself in the physical part of His creation. That's what time is. To say that "time ends," as the King James translators wanted, is to say that God never again shows up in the physical half of His creation. Nonsense! Every moment of every day in every individual's particular circumstances is, in fact, an "eternal" God showing up in our lives. 
And so, at some point way back when, God whispered to Lucifer, "Sorry, buddy, you're not like Me at all. Man is like Me." God's whisper did not penetrate Lucifer's mind.
Jesus said, "I am come to serve." He said, "Always take the lowest place." Why? He was showing us God.
God is beneath; He is meek and lowly of heart. He never defends Himself; but neither does He submit to manipulation and control.
God is always rising out of death. If Jesus rose from the dead in a moment of time, then we know that God, by His very nature and being is always rising out of death, alive again, new every morning, spontaneous and fresh.
God DID NOT "stoop" to rescue man. Where on earth did that way of thinking, that definition of God and man come from? It is of the most vital importance for us to know where the definitions of God and the definitions of man that fill the thinking of Christianity came from.
Lucifer loathes and despises man more than we can possibly comprehend. To equal measure, Lucifer is in love with himself.
Now, Paul said, "you . . . who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience . . ." (Ephesians 2:1-2) In the same vein, John says, "the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one," and "the serpent deceives the whole world."
In other words, the "spirit" that animates this world and gives "life" (that is, death) to those who walk in the darkness of their minds cut off from the knowledge of God is the same serpent from the garden. That serpent is a spirit that, not by his own finite being, but, by extension, through the billions of demons under his whip, fills and pervades both the minds of those who live in darkness and ALL interactions (the world) between those who live in darkness. That spirit is by its very nature a Lie and a Liar as well as a murderer.
By nature also, we understand this simple reality concerning that spirit: he adulates himself and he loathes man.
Now we look at the serpent in the garden. He said, "You will be 'like God.'"
First, we know that God was not in the serpent's mind; more than that, he didn't even know God except in some external sort of way. The serpent's mind was full of himself. Yet, not himself in actuality, but rather, the heated imagination he had carefully crafted of his own picture of himself in his own delusions.
When the serpent said, "God," he meant the fevered delusions of his own imaginative definitions of himself. Whenever people in this world talk about "God," it is this definition of God to which they refer. In other words, the "highest" thing that man in his vanity aspires to be.
The same definition of God, stripped away from humanistic man's aspirations for himself and forced upon the Father, is the one that fills Christianity as well. That definition came into the church through a particular historical incident which we must understand to know the deceit in which our brethren are trapped.
Now, although the world retains the exalted definition of "manly," strutting, and violently ambitious manliness inspired by the spirit that fills all minds separated from God, the church has a completely different take on man.
The same loathing of the serpent for "man" fills Christianity.
"Man is a worm, filthy and low; God "on High" in His great mercy took pity on this base and despicable creature and saved a few of them from eternal hellfire. The rest get what they naturally deserve."
This definition of man is not found in the Bible; it is found in the heart of the serpent.
Now, neither exalted ambition nor groveling lowness has anything to do with any definition of "man." Yes, all who live in darkened minds separated from the knowledge of God carry in themselves varying degrees of both of these imaginative descriptions of "man." But both are nothing more than the made-up thoughts of a very nasty and fallen spirit.
First, fallen man is crucified, dead, and buried. Second, God does not do anything with imaginative ideas; He does not know them. Therefore, He does not see what man himself sees about who and what he is.
Man, as he is to be defined, is nothing other than the exact image and likeness of God to both heaven and earth. Man is God revealed.
What is man? Man is God revealed.
Tell me, in light of the cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ, both infinite and absolute, what other accurate definition of man is to be found?
Now, there are two terms found in the New Testament that we must define from a godly perspective. Those two terms are "from above" and "great."
John the Baptist said, "He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all."
Jesus said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant." (Matthew 20) He said, ". . . the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life . . ."
Clear thinking comes from clearly defined terms. Jesus uses the word "great" in Matthew 20 for two completely opposing things. First, He says that those among the Gentiles who are "great" exercise authority, then He says that in the kingdom those who are "great" are those who serve. It is clear that the same word bears two completely opposing meanings. When we use it, we must know which of the two meanings we intend; neither should we ever confuse them.
Satan rules in the church all the way through by confusing these two meanings of the word "great."
In a similar way, "from above" as Jesus uses it to speak of Himself also has two completely different meanings, as stark as the difference between "great" and "great." "From above" as Jesus used it is a metaphor only, meaning the realms of spirit. Look at your heart. There is spirit "below" your heart in a geographical sense. "From above" cannot be literal.
In complete contrast, "from above" as part of Lucifer's definition of himself is "superior," "dominating," "authoritative."
Remember man is hanging upside down. "Up" to God is "down" to us. God is beneath our feet. In contrast, "up" to man is "down" to God. God never looks down. (Man is not down, that's just his imagination, that he is "great" in a worldly sense.) Conversely, "great" to God is "low" to man, and "great" to man is "despicable and low" to God.
We know that this inversion is true (we could go on, man's "wisdom" is foolishness to God vs. God's wisdom is foolishness to man.) The problem is that we use man's definitions that come from Lucifer's darkened mind to define God and to define man.
That is exactly what Augustine did. Look at those who attempt to "defend" Augustine's Trinity. They stumble down the same intellectual path of mis-defining God.
The President of the United States is "great." A homeless drunk on a park bench 10 blocks away is "low and vile." If you serve the President, you serve baseness; your reward is contempt. If you serve the homeless drunk, you are touching God.
As an amateur student of history, I have some concept of human "greatness." I have known one "great" man in my life, Sam Fife. Now, let me explain what I mean clearly. (A man who is "great" in this world can, in fact, serve.) Let's say you are in a large room filled with hundreds of people. Everyone is milling around, visiting. Others enter, no one pays attention. Then the King and Queen arrive and everyone stops immediately with all attention focused on those two individuals. The King and Queen are not necessarily "great," they just hold that image and everyone responds to the image. Then the King and Queen leave and everything goes back to what it was.  
Next, let's just pull a figure from history; the Duke of Wellington enters the room. The response is immediate, but entirely different from the entrance of the King and Queen. No one bows outwardly; there is no scraping and pretending. Rather, the impact of the presence of this one individual flows through the room like ripples. Everything shifts. People continue talking, but everyone knows. The Duke of Wellington speaks; everyone quiets, not because of outward show, but because everyone wants to hear every word this man says. His person, his carriage, his victory, imposes itself upon every heart in that room.
History and the human experience are scattered with individuals like this. Napoleon and Nelson from the same time period were similar. To meet Lord Nelson was to instantly devote your life, body and soul, to the man; all who met him felt instant overwhelming loyalty to him. To meet Napoleon (if you were French) was even more that way. None of that was outward show, but rather the impact of intensity, of internal power, of devoted purpose, that flowed out of these men, swallowing up every lesser individual in the reach of their persona. Serving men like these gave the common individual a deep sense of being part of something great and meaningful, far larger than their own little lives.  
Sam Fife, as an individual man, had a similar effect on people. I am not speaking of something hypnotic, but rather of something real. You knew this man was devoted absolutely and without reservation to a large and glorious cause. You knew the intensity and the fire of his person. When he spoke, every word counted.
This "greatness" is an outward gift. It does not give us a true definition of God. As a gift, this "greatness" is like every other quality given to man as a gift, it can be used for evil, it can be used for good, but almost always it is used, back and forth, for both.
Jesus, as an individual man, and Paul, had this gift beyond any other individuals in the first century church. This gift of commanding the attention of others is not what made either of these two individuals "great" in the eyes of God IN ANY WAY. Jesus said, "I can do nothing of Myself." Paul said, "I am the least of the apostles."
Now, let's define "God" in the only way we can, through story. Please take the time to read this story, "Where Love Is, There God Is Also," by Leo Tolstoy; you may have read it before, it will bring tears to your eyes to read it again.    http://thriceholy.net/Texts/Tolstoy.html 
Consider these words: "Martin! Ah, Martin! Look tomorrow on the street. I am coming."
And again, these: "For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in." And on the lower part of the page he read this: "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."
"From above" is a metaphorical phrase; that is, it represents something other than the literal. It also means the opposite of any human "above."
"You have done it unto Me" is not a metaphorical phrase; it is one hundred percent literal. God is the least and the lowest - from man's hanging-upside-down point of view.
When we use the kings of this world, their role and their place, as a means of defining "God," we do not have a definition of God, but of Lucifer's imaginative self-portrait. Yet that is the definition forced upon our Father by most of Christianity. How did that happen?
Now, please don't make the mistake of thinking, "Not me, I don't study 'carnal' things, all I do is read the Bible and think spiritual things." Those who think that way only fool themselves. The thinking of this world and of Christianity in this world works its way all through our minds. Over and over, no matter how hard we "try to be spiritual," we impose fallen man's definitions upon God and upon the words of the Bible. Not only do we do this all the time in ways we do not consider, but God made it to be so. God imposed vanity upon the human experience so that you and I would bust out of that vanity to set creation free. We haven't done that yet, but we will. 
It is one thing to use the serpent's definitions to define God in ignorance; it is something different entirely to cling to those definitions and argue for how "right" they are.
Before we look at how, exactly, this way of defining "God" forced itself into Christianity, let's re-iterate the meaning of "great." I find that I have fleshed out three definitions of "great," not two.
First, there is "greatness" as an outward gift from God. This is the kind of "greatness" that Lucifer was given by God in the beginning. It is simply one of many different outward giftings, neither superior to nor inferior to any other outward gifting. Both Lord Wellington and Lord Nelson had this kind of "greatness." Genghis Kahn was another such that I have studied in recent years. These men used their power mostly for others, but partly for themselves. Sometimes they did wrong things with their intrinsic power to command men's hearts. They were just like most of the rest of us; they were human.
Just as Lucifer was totally mistaken to imagine that his outward gift made him more "like God," so we are mistaken when we imagine that the gift of "greatness," and its ability to draw into itself spiritual power and anointing, has anything to do with the image of God. Certainly, Jesus had this kind of "greatness" as an individual person. But here is where we turn "being like Jesus" into satanic nonsense, when we imagine that we must "be like Jesus" outwardly to be the image of God.
Second, there is "greatness" that is a put-on, a show, the image and trappings of human power to force violence on others as is held by most rulers in this world. The presidents of the United States in my lifetime (with the possible exception of Kennedy) have not been "great" men in any sense of the word, but they strut in the images and pretending of power as if they have something to do with anything. Americans feed this false image with total abandon. No potentate in history ever strutted across the world as Bush, Jr. did. Yet Americans wrap these individuals with the robes of "greatness." Pathetic - and just; people are given the rulers they deserve.
This second definition of "greatness" is what is usually imposed upon God and upon the definition that many call "God the Son," something God Himself never ever says, with reason.
Look at the arguments of those who defend Augustine's definition of "the Trinity," They use only separation and tree of knowledge arguments in a desperate attempt to "exalt God," which is nothing more than putting God "lower" than man. That is the power of Augustine - immense and dominating.
Third is the true definition of greatness: the one who takes the lowest place, who serves - who is the servant of all, who walks in tenderness and compassion towards others, who lays down his life, never defending himself, never bringing hurt to anyone else, never imposing himself on others, nor compelling anyone against their will.
Let me give you another definition of greatness in God's meaning of the word. Watch Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen, the Jennifer Ehle, Colin Firth rendition.
Besides being one of the most brilliant stories written in all the history of the world, and a great movie as well, I want you to notice something as you watch. You will have to look carefully lest you miss the most important people in the story by God's definition: the servants.
Keep your eye out, especially, for Hild; she appears the moment the Bennet's return home. Watch what she does. But also look for the servant who pours wine during the dancing - you will see only his hand. Those servants in their outward presentation are most like God of any human quality. In God's kingdom, Hild is the pastor of the church and the man behind the hand that pours the wine, standing unseen in the shadows, is the APOSTLE.
Notice that they do what is their duty, that they stand always in the background waiting for that one moment when their service is needed, and then return immediately to the shadows again, always waiting.
Notice also the great respect and deference the servants show to the Lords and Ladies of the house, that is, to the regular everyday Christians and little people in the body of Christ.
This is Jesus' definition of His ministry in the Church.
It is not man's definition. Christians are always trying to turn the servants into the "authority." "Rule over us for our benefit and well-being."  Sadly, too many little men are all so ready to oblige; it makes them feel "like God."  
Jesus said, "It shall not be so among you."
What would Mr. Bennet have thought if the cook's helper had confronted him upon returning to his house, "If you don't submit to me, you are rebelling against God"? He would have dismissed her from his service immediately and not given it another thought.
Yet in one way or another "ministry" in the church of Christ dare to make this same assertion. Even worse than that, they persuade people to believe that this "top-down" (from man's point of view) hierarchy is "God's order" for all things. And thus the abomination that makes desolate rules in the house of God.
Jesus said, "It shall not be so among you."
The entrance of this false way of defining God into the bedrock of Christian theology I hold for another letter. I will say this, I am referring to the collusion of two perverse individuals who found that by working together they could achieve the ambition of their own personal lusts: Constantine and Athanasius.
Meanwhile, in conclusion, I want to come back into the start of this letter: Defining God; Defining Man.
God is invisible and unknowable. You and I know absolutely nothing real about God in any way, shape, or form. We have a bunch of ideas about God, but those ideas are not God Himself and they are colored and defined entirely by the spirit that fills all mankind under the vanity of this world. That is where we start - six thousand years of human darkness from Adam until now.
Then, God Himself shows up in the middle of that darkness in two unbelievable ways.
Jesus, from His conception to His ascension, is the only thing real that we know about God. Jesus, as He walked this earth, in all things that He did and said, is the anchor of the promise of God, that we would know Him. God is known to us as a Man. (Thus, turning Jesus into "God the Son" defeats the very purpose for which He was sent.)
But that is not enough. For Jesus as He walked this earth is yet entirely on the outside of us. Though He is the anchor of any and all definitions of "God," yet outside of us, He is just one more set of ideas and thus, not God to us.
And so we come to the second unbelievable way in which God shows up inside of this frame of human darkness.
"Christ lives in your hearts by faith." "Christ, who is your life." God shows up as us.
There is no other way we can know anything of Him in reality except by these two appearances of God inside His physical creation: Jesus as He walked this earth, and the Holy Spirit who fills all of our humanity in all ways with Christ. There is no other way for us to know and thus define God untainted by the serpent's image of himself.
God is known only by man. There is no other way to know Him. The highest of heavenly angels are waiting with bated breath for the age to come, when finally, for the first time, they can know their Creator - by the church.
"What is man?" David
"He who has seen Me has seen the Father," Jesus the Son of David
God is Himself; man walking in utter union with God, reveals God to His creation. Thus man "looks like" God because God is always showing Himself through man.
God is meek and lowly of heart; He always takes the lowest place. The gift of "greatness" given to certain created individuals whether angelic or human, does not "define" God, even when that outward gift is accompanied by a powerful anointing from the throne of God. We can never be more like God than when we offer a kind touch, a gentle word, a cup of cold water to a thirsty soul.
Martin the Shoemaker had no idea how much like God he was; he was the image of his Father.
But the moment we try to revert back to external definitions of external character traits in order to "define God," we fall into the same trap Lucifer fell into, the false image laid upon the church by Augustine.
John said, "We shall be like Him (Jesus), for we shall see Him as He is."
"We shall be like Him." If Augustine's definition of "God the Son" is correct, then John's words are a mockery, a cruel and vicious joke of pretense and delusion.
Is Jesus divine? Of course He is. Jesus is God revealed.
And so are we. We are just like Him.
What is man? The day that we answer that question correctly is the day we know God as He really is.

Thursday, 15 September 2011

Request For Clarity - Rich Novek

Times are changing, saints. Francois DuToit and Andre Rabe are finding liberty to share in all kinds of sizes of Christian event, in all kinds of countries. Last week I posted what I felt was a key post on what we have been doing as Christians online in the last 3-4 years....namely going back to reestablish a missing foundation which was paralysing  our advance in the gospel.
 Only yesterday Fred Pruitt and Ole Henrik posted what I felt was another bombshell post which I plan to repost here on the "Change of Priesthood".
Today, or late last night rather, Rich posted this request for clarity. Andre did something similar among those that knew him a few months ago. Because a lot of us really love Rich and his fabulous posts I thought I'd make this request more widely known.  What I suppose I am saying is God has been birthing a different order of ministry suitable to the the times ahead, and I recognise this in Rich and Linda Novek.

Posted: September 14, 2011 by novek7 in Uncategorized


Dear Gracebook Family,

Well it looks as though “the opportunity of a lifetime”, the position I was offered, while in the hospital recovering from my recent illness may soon be coming to an end.  For those of you who don’t know why I was hospitalized, in April of this year (my birthday of all days) I was admitted into the hospital for a life threatening infection they found in my spine.  While there recovering, they also found a (non-cancerous) tumor which turned out to be twice the size of my kidney on my kidney, which also resulted in them removing the damaged kidney.

And it may be ending before it even had a chance to get started.

It seems the ownership of the company I am working for is back-pedaling at this point on the initial offer they made to me.  And if this isn’t bad enough, there is  other miscommunication and misinformation across the board.  This might also be the reason the company is where it’s at today.  It’s really a shame too, because the product is a brand name in the industry, and the potential for increased market share is huge.

A wonderful brother IN Christ (who after 30 years, still sees himself as my pastor) who introduced me to some of the deepest writers of our day once said to me, “Rich, God didn’t put you here on this earth to work a “regular” job.  He has a much larger place for you than that to fill.”

Well, after nearly 30 years of occupational ups and downs, (mostly downs) I am finally beginning to believe he may have had a point, lol!

So if this current opportunity continues to fall short, I think the next step for me may be to pursue a certification as a “deeper life” Life Coach.  I have been involved in counseling in one capacity or another for nearly 25 years, even though I have never received any income doing so.

Linda and I are asking our Gracebook family for clear direction as we move forward, and realize this could very well be the answer to our heart’s cry!  That is, Him shutting one door, only for the purpose of opening up another better door.

Please stand in agreement with us as we seek the Lord for clear direction as to what the next thing is.  My heart’s desire has always been to be involved in REAL ministry in a full time capacity…writing, counseling, speaking…and otherwise sharing the wonderful revelation of His life IN us.  But I am also open to whatever it is He places in front of me.

I always have been.

When I heard the disheartening news today, I immediately came home to Linda.  For the past 7 years she has always been there for me, especially in those “I feel less than” times.

Upon my arrival home, I noticed the internet guy was there reconnecting our disconnected internet service.  It turned out he is also a brother IN Christ, another one of thousands of starving sheep, those who are longing for so much more when it comes to their relationship IN Him!

As we fellowshipped together, I broke down, and we all prayed!

Linda and I know with a deep certainty we are not as those who have no Hope!  Our Hope IS Christ…He IS our Life!

And just as has happened so many times before, my loving Father was there in the form of this six foot-seven 20 something, whose heart was searching for the True spiritual food and the True spiritual drink!  It was this young brother, along with my wonderful wife, who God placed in my path “Today” to help comfort me in my time of disappointment!

He was also the catalyst behind this… request for clarity!

Yes, it was Kaine Popejoy (now there’s a name), my internet service technician, who suggested I might start looking at the possibility of “feeding the other starving sheep” in some type of full time capacity!  Without Kaine, I would probably not be writing this today, not only because he was the guy who hooked us (our internet service) back up, but more importantly, because of his willingness to allow God to use him.

I want you all to know in thirty years of lay ministry I have never written a letter like this, a letter which specifically asks for clarity from the corporate body concerning the possibility of moving into full time ministry.  It has never been easy for me to ask anyone of anything for myself, but I guess it’s time to do so.

And…as the saying goes, there is a first time for everything!

Over the course of my life, I applied to three different Bible colleges, and for whatever reason, it pleased the Father to place me in the “School of the Fire” instead!  And He did this in order to position me to receive the revelation of Christ IN me as my life, by Grace alone, through faith alone, IN Christ alone!  It was also here, in His chosen institute of “Higher” learning where I learned OF God, not only ABOUT Him!

To date, I have written nearly 100 articles on the “deeper life.” These are articles I am one day hoping to compile into 3 separate 31 day, Day-By-Day devotionals.  All of the “deeper life” articles I have penned were written here on Gracebook in the last 18 months.

The following scripture passage in Philippians has brought so much freedom to my soul over the past few years, and “Today” it means so much more to me than it ever has!

“All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too GOD WILL MAKE CLEAR to you.  Only let us live up to what we have already attained.” (Philippians 3:15-16)

Linda and I want to thank you all for your continued love and support!  We are praying that we are able to see ALL things just as He does, and that all of these things will be made as clear as the glass we NOW see through…to Him!  Thank you.

We love you all!

Thursday, 2 June 2011

Fifteen Theses Towards a Re-Incarnation of Church - Wolfgang Simpson . What this article DOES NOT SAY - Chris Welch.


God is changing the Church, and that, in turn, will change the world. Millions of Christians around the world are aware of an imminent reformation of global proportions. 
They say, in effect : “Church as we know it is preventing Church as God wants it.”
A growing number of them are surprisingly hearing God say the very same things.There is a collective new awareness of age-old revelations, a corporate spiritual echo. In the following “15Theses” I will summarize a part of this, and I am convinced that it reflects a part of what the Spirit of God is saying to the Church today. For some, it might be the proverbial fist-sized cloud on Elijah’s sky. Others already feel the pouring rain.
Fifteen Theses towards a Re-Incarnation of Church
1. Church is a Way of Life, not a series of religious meetings.
Before they where called Christians, followers of Christ have been called “The Way”. One of the reasons was, that they have literally found “the way to live.” The nature of Church is not reflected in a constant series of religious meetings lead by professional clergy in holy rooms specially reserved to experience Jesus, but in the prophetic way followers of Christ live their everyday life in spiritually extended families as a vivid answer to the questions society faces, at the place where it counts most: in their homes.
2. Time to change the system
In aligning itself to the religious patterns of the day, the historic Orthodox Church after Constantine in the 4th centuryAD adopted a religious system which was in essence Old Testament, complete with priests, altar, a Christian temple(cathedral), frankincense and a Jewish, synagogue-style worship pattern. The Roman Catholic Church went on tocanonize the system. Luther did reform the content of the gospel, but left the outer forms of “church” remarkably untouched; the Free-Churches freed the system from the State, the Baptists then baptized it, the Quakers dry-cleaned it, the Salvation Army put it into a uniform, the Pentecostals anointed it and the Charismatics renewed it, but until today nobody has really changed the superstructure. It is about time to do just that.
3. The Third Reformation.
In rediscovering the gospel of salvation by faith and grace alone, Luther started to reform the Church through areformation of theology. In the 18th century through movements like the Moravians there was a recovery of a new intimacy with God, which led to a reformation of spirituality, the Second Reformation. Now God is touching thewine skins themselves, initiating a Third Reformation, a reformation of structure.
4. From Church-Houses to house-churches
Since New Testament times, there is no such thing as “a house of God”. At the cost of his life, Stephen reminded unequivocally: God does not live in temples made by human hands. The Church is the people of God. The Church,therefore, was and is at home where people are at home: in ordinary houses. There, the people of God: share their lives in the power of the Holy Spirit,have “meatings,” that is, they eat when they meet; they often do not even hesitate to sell private property and share material and spiritual blessings,teach each other in real-life situations how to obey God’s word—dialogue- and not professor-style, pray and prophesy with each other, baptize, ‘lose their face’ and their ego by confessing their sins,regaining a new corporate identity by experiencing love, acceptance and forgiveness.
5. The church has to become small in order to grow big
Most churches of today are simply too big to provide real fellowship. They have too often become “fellowships without fellowship.” The New Testament Church was a mass of small groups, typically between 10 and 15 people. It grew not upward into big congregations between 20 and 300 people filling a cathedral and making real, mutual communication improbable. Instead, it multiplied “sidewards”—like organic cells—once these groups reached around 15-20 people. Then, if possible, it drew all the Christians together into citywide celebrations, as with Solomon’sTemple court in Jerusalem. The traditional congregational church as we know it is, statistically speaking, neither bignor beautiful, but rather a sad compromise, an overgrown house-church and an under-grown celebration, often missingthe dynamics of both.
6. No church is led by a Pastor alone
The local church is not lead by a Pastor, but fathered by an Elder, a local person of wisdom and reality. The local house-churches are then networked into a movement by the combination of elders and members of the so-called five-fold ministries (Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, Evangelists and Teachers) circulating “from house to house,” whereby
there is a special foundational role to play for the apostolic and prophetic ministries (Eph. 2:20, and 4:11.12). A Pastor(shepherd) is a very necessary part of the whole team, but he cannot fulfill more than a part of the whole task of “equipping the saints for the ministry,” and has to be complemented synergistically by the other four ministries in order to function properly.
7. The right pieces – fitted together in the wrong way
In doing a puzzle, we need to have the right original for the pieces, otherwise the final product, the whole picture,turns out wrong, and the individual pieces do not make much sense. This has happened to large parts of the Christianworld: we have all the right pieces, but have fitted them together wrong, because of fear, tradition, religious jealousy and a power-and-control mentality. As water is found in three forms—ice, water and steam—the five ministriesmentioned in Eph. 4:11-12, the Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, Teachers and Evangelists are also found today, but not always in the right forms and in the right places: they are often frozen to ice in the rigid system of institutionalizedChristianity; they sometimes exist as clear water; or they have vanished like steam into the thin air of free-flying ministries and “independent” churches, accountable to no-one. As it is best to water flowers with the fluid version of water, these five equipping ministries will have to be transformed back into new—and at the same time age-old—forms, so that the whole spiritual organism can flourish and the individual “ministers” can find their proper role and place in the whole. That is one more reason why we need to return back to the Maker’s original and blueprint for the Church.
8. God does not leave the Church in the hands of bureaucratic clergy
No expression of a New Testament church is ever led by just one professional “holy man” doing the business of communicating with God and then feeding some relatively passive religious consumers Moses-style. Christianity has adopted this method from pagan religions, or at best from the Old Testament. The heavy professionalisation of the church since Constantine has now been a pervasive influence long enough, dividing the people of God artificially intolaity and clergy. According to the New Testament (1 Tim. 2:5), “there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” God simply does not bless religious professionals to force themselves in-between people and God forever. The veil is torn, and God is allowing people to access Himself directly through Jesus Christ,the only Way. To enable the priesthood of all believers, the present system will have to change completely.Bureaucracy is the most dubious of all administrative systems, because it basically asks only two questions: yes or no.There is no room for spontaneity and humanity, no room for real life. This may be OK for politics and companies, but not the Church. God seems to be in the business of delivering His Church from a Babylonian captivity of religious bureaucrats and controlling spirits into the public domain, the hands of ordinary people made extraordinary by God,who, like in the old days, may still smell of fish, perfume and revolution.
9. Return from organized to organic forms of Christianity
The “Body of Christ” is a vivid description of an organic, not an organized, being. Church consists on its local level of a multitude of spiritual families, which are organically related to each other as a network, where the way the pieces arefunctioning together is an integral part of the message of the whole. What has become a maximum of organizationwith a minimum of organism, has to be changed into a minimum of organization to allow a maximum of organism.Too much organization has, like a straightjacket, often choked the organism for fear that something might go wrong.Fear is the opposite of faith, and not exactly a Christian virtue. Fear wants to control, faith can trust. Control,therefore, may be good, but trust is better. The Body of Christ is entrusted by God into the hands of steward-mindedpeople with a supernatural charismatic gift to believe God that He is still in control, even if they are not. A development of trust-related regional and national networks, not a new arrangement of political ecumenism isnecessary for organic forms of Christianity to reemerge.
10. From worshipping our worship to worshipping God
The image of much of contemporary Christianity can be summarized, a bit euphemistically,
as holy people coming regularly to a holy place at a holy day at a holy hour to participate in a holy ritual lead by a holy man dressed in holy clothes against a holy fee.
Since this regular performance-oriented enterprise called "worship service" requires a lot of organizational talent and administrative bureaucracy to keep going, formalized and institutionalized patterns developed quickly into rigid traditions. Statistically, a traditional 1-2 hour “worship service” is very resource-hungry but actually produces very little fruit in terms of discipling people, that is, in changed lives. Economically speaking, it might be a "high input and low output" structure. Traditionally, the desire to “worship in the right way” has led tomuch denominationalism, confessionalism and nominalism. This not only ignores that Christians are called to“worship in truth and in spirit,” not in cathedrals holding songbooks, but also ignores that most of life is informal, and so is Christianity as “the Way of Life.” Do we need to change from being powerful actors to start “acting powerfully?”
11. Stop bringing people to church, and start bringing the church to the people
The church is changing back from being a Come-structure to being again a Go-structure. As one result, the Churchneeds to stop trying to bring people “into the church,” and start bringing the Church to the people. The mission of theChurch will never be accomplished just by adding to the existing structure; it will take nothing less than a mushrooming of the church through spontaneous multiplication of itself into areas of the population of the world,where Christ is not yet known.
12. Rediscovering the “Lord's Supper” to be a real supper with real food
Church tradition has managed to “celebrate the Lord's Supper” in a homeopathic and deeply religious form,characteristically with a few drops of wine, a tasteless cookie and a sad face. However, the “Lord's Supper” wasactually more a substantial supper with a symbolic meaning,
than a symbolic supper with a substantial meaning.
God is restoring eating back into our meeting.
13. From Denominations to city-wide celebrations
Jesus called a universal movement, and what came was a series of religious companies with global chains marketing their special brands of Christianity and competing with each other. Through this branding of Christianity most of Protestantism has, therefore, become politically insignificant and often more concerned with traditional specialties and religious infighting than with developing a collective testimony before the world. Jesus simply never asked people to organize themselves into denominations. In the early days of the Church, Christians had a dual identity: they were truly His church and vertically converted to God, and then organized themselves according to geography, that is,converting also horizontally to each other on earth. This means not only Christian neighbors organizing themselves into neighborhood- or house-churches, where they share their lives locally, but Christians coming together as acollective identity as much as they can for citywide or regional celebrations expressing the corporateness of theChurch of the city or region. Authenticity in the neighborhoods connected with a regional or citywide corporateidentity will make the Church not only politically significant and spiritually convincing, but will allow a return to thebiblical model of the City-Church.
14. Developing a persecution-proof spirit
They crucified Jesus, the Boss of all the Christians. Today, his followers are often more into titles, medals and social respectability, or, worst of all, they remain silent and are not worth being noticed at all. “Blessed are you when you are persecuted”, says Jesus. Biblical Christianity is a healthy threat to pagan godlessness and sinfulness, a world overcomeby greed, materialism, jealousy and any amount of demonic standards of ethics, sex, money and power. Contemporary Christianity in many countries is simply too harmless and polite to be worth persecuting. But as Christians again liveout New Testament standards of life and, for example, call sin as sin, conversion or persecution has been, is and will be the natural reaction of the world. Instead of nesting comfortably in temporary zones of religious liberty, Christians will have to prepare to be again discovered as the main culprits against global humanism, the modern slavery of having to have fun and the outright worship of Self, the wrong centre of the universe. That is why Christians will and must feel the “repressive tolerance” of a world which has lost any absolutes and therefore refuses to recognize andobey its creator God with his absolute standards. Coupled with the growing ideologisation, privatization and spiritualisation of politics and economics, Christians will—sooner than most think—have their chance to stand happily accused in the company of Jesus. They need to prepare now for the future by developing a persecution-proof spirit and an even more persecution-proof structure.
15. The Church comes home
Where is the easiest place, say, for a man to be spiritual? Maybe again, is it hiding behind a big pulpit, dressed up in holy robes, preaching holy words to a faceless crowd and then disappearing into an office? And what is the most difficult—and therefore most meaningful—place for a man to be spiritual? At home, in the presence of his wife and children, where everything he does and says is automatically put through a spiritual litmus test against reality, where hypocrisy can be effectively weeded out and authenticity can grow. Much of Christianity has fled the family, often as a place of its own spiritual defeat, and then has organized artificial performances in sacred buildings far from the atmosphere of real life. As God is in the business of recapturing the homes, the church turns back to its roots—back to where it came from. It literally comes home, completing the circle of Church history at the end of world history.
As Christians of all walks of life, from all denominations and backgrounds, feel a clear echo in their spirit to what God's Spirit is saying to the Church, and start to hear globally in order to act locally, they begin to function again as one body. They organize themselves into neighborhood house-churches and meet in regional or city-celebrations. You are invited to become part of this movement and make your own contribution.Maybe your home, too, will become a house that changes the world.(From: Houses that change the world, Wolfgang Simpson)

An Analysis of Fifteen Theses by Chris Welch
You might wonder what there is to analyse?
Here is a list of 15 practical steps out from much of what we can view of contemporary Christianity. 
But you see when I was 12, my lifelong experience of methodism had brought me to similar conclusions already, and after a year of atheism I was blessed to be caught up into a new kind of Christianity. For me it began with two Billy Graham films, but I and thousands like me didn't stop there, because for us what was special about the Billy Graham films was not just the message.
It was the Presence of God.


I'd been in church 12 years and never been aware of it. Now, I describe the NOW Presence of God, the Eternal NOW, this God who presents Himself always and continually as the I AM, in the same way He presented Himself to Moses,-
I describe this as Life in the Melchizedek Order. This is where our HIGH PRIEST Jesus operates His church from.


So it was natural for me to want to learn more about the One who brings this Presence: the Holy Spirit. But this too was a Melchizedek Order event. Two people individually had a vision or dream of a Holy Spirit teach-in day. So it was organised in a house in Little Kingshill Bucks. Far from church buildings. And this is where the Holy Spirit came down on a roomful of teens like fire. And we took this into school and college with us, and the fire continued to blaze.


Jesus reveals in the Spirit ahead of time the outline of what He wants to accomplish. This is usually verified by others who are attentive to the Holy Spirit. Key of David meetings in Havant run this way, and so do, more and more, the main meetings too.


So after my friends who were older returned from the Jesus Liberation Front Double decker bus operation that drove to the Munich Olympics in 1972, returning via the Sisters of Mary, Darmstadt, and after many of us had got tucked into Watchman Nee's writings, you can understand how already we had reached the conclusions in these 15 theses.


And then......... God began working with us!!!
Point One - The Way
Yes, so Life for us was expressed in loose home gatherings in a few homes of believers who would give us discipleship time. It was adhoc. Spontaneous. We gathered because we hungered to gather. The very outer edges of "rejections" in my life began, like open wounds, to be exposed , then healed. We learned how Melchizedek meetings operate. Songs poured forth. Terry Virgo began carting some of my songs with him round the world.


But saints....this is only the very start of what Jesus would call the Way. The Way is a God- purposed, God designated pathway that exposes the real human condition to ourselves.
Points Two to Five - Regarding outer forms
The forms of church heralded in these theses can be clearly seen in the fledgling church 1st century church. The structures form themselves as a people hungers after the Presence and Person of God. Many of us since have tried reproducing the form, say house groups, only to observe the misery of a people gathering not because they are desperate to know the Spontaneous Melchizedek Life together, not because they are head over heels in Holy Spirit love with each other, not because they really , really , want to pour that expensive alabaster box of spikenard over their Saviour , and can't wait to get together to do it...


they are gathering because their pastor, a CEO pastor has sat at his computer, divided the church up in lists. and because , simply, he has told them that this is a good idea.


How many of you know it's a dreadful idea? Can you think of anything worse than gathering together in one confined home space with people whose last reason for living is the First Commandment of 
Loving God
With all your heart,
with all your soul,
with all your strength,
THEN with all your mind.


No they are meeting to catch up with the latest gossip on the church. They are meeting to eat food cheap. They are meeting because they have to. They are meeting because it's meant to be the trendy new thing that the 15 Theses recommend and "we must all get in on it".


Points 6 and 7  AHA the old apostle/prophet and other ministries angle!
I say old, because first the Apostolic Pentecostal movement caught the vision of Ephesians 4 and ran with it 60 or 70 years ago. Our Jesus movement began nesting in the Fountain Trust frameworks  that were still very denominational in outlook, then we broke away like the theses recommend, initially into home fellowships, which later grew into the present (UK sized ?!?!) megaliths like Derby Church which is threatening Egg Bank on Pride Park in Derby.


So , in our case, within four years, from 1972 -6 , we'd made the leap these theses describe from pastor/vicar led flocks, to a pastor/apostolic led affair with many elders in tow, each with their variety of giftings. Who has noticed the pyramid shape is still unaffected?


In the UK who were some of the names? Bryn Jones,Arthur Wallis,Barney Coombs,David Mansell,Gerald Coates, Maurice Smith,George Tarleton,David Matthews,Terry Virgo,Alan Vincent,Dave Tomlinson. These all split into 2 main groups.


The point though, is that apart from perhaps Bryn and Arthur, how many at this stage were familiar with growth in God? They were for the most part all young leaders who filled the leadership vacuum, and all at least could lead people to the Living Jesus, and show people how to get filled or baptised in the Holy Spirit. But much more than this they really hadn't a clue.


And this is what I am flagging up here concerning these theses?
What is the end goal?
What does an apostle do?
Why are even these theses something like the cart before the horse?


Our end goal is this. Simply to reproduce Christ to maturity in a believer.
Evangelicalism. The charismatic. Both know how to introduce people to Jesus the Saviour. Charismatics know how to introduce people to the Baptiser, Jesus,who baptises us in the Spirit. But you know what?....in Old Testament terms this covers the 390 years of Israel's existence before leaving Egypt, up until the 1st day in the wilderness, when Israel had partaken of the blood covering for sin, and had come through the miracle of the Red Sea, and then started fixing themselves on the Pillar of Cloud by Day, and the Pillar of Fire by night for guidance.   So you see....it's not very far really?  And all these leaders were believing that God would kind of teach them more as they went on. Which is, to honour them for a minute, a very bold thing to do, with hundreds and later hundreds of thousands in tow.-Or a very foolish prideful thing.


But, it turns out,contrary to the notion of our first generation apostles,what an apostle is....is errrr....somewhat different.


An apostle is NOT a super pastor.  ie a pastor gets people saved, an apostle gets people baptised in the Spirit and knows how to string groups of individual churches together into something like a school hall or business unit franchise.


No an apostle, or what this blog calls a Father level ministry knows how to reproduce Christ to maturity in a believer and/ or group. He is also gifted supernaturally with the ability of church planting.


An apostle is not a "pile of stones" collector. He or she plants living interconnected expressions of Jesus Christ in human form, in localities. One way you can tell an apostle is by watching how this kind of electromagnet walks into a place that just has a pile of unrelated stones in, and lo and behold by connecting all the individuals into the Melchizedek Order, into a living relationship with Jesus, what was formerly a shapeless amorphous unrelated mass is now a growing church in the Spirit. I have to add in the Spirit, just in case you are imagining a beautiful church building.


A beautiful expression of Christ is not the same as saying a beautiful bunch of people. Outwardly. 


Which brings us further into point 7.
Do you notice that this writer positions himself in his H2O or water example firmly in the manifestation of water? The frozen form he dislikes, but the gaseous form of water that is steam is not to his taste either.
"they have vanished like steam into the thin air of free-flying ministries and “independent” churches, accountable to no-one. As it is best to water flowers with the fluid version of water, these five equipping ministries will have to be transformed back into new—and at the same time age-old—forms, so that the whole spiritual organism can flourish and the individual “ministers” can find their proper role and place in the whole"


This whole view is according to the jargon of this blog a secondlevel view and not the view of this blog. Probably because they won't be embarrassed let's take Andre Rabe and Francois Du Toit as examples. These guys are examples of free-flying, independent ministries, accountable to no one. Is this a problem?


The whole secondlevel , still structured approach is this whole fear belief that you cannot ultimately entrust yourselves to Jesus and His Melchizedek operation. It's too fragile. It's a bit like David, who, because it seemed a good idea at the time, put the Ark on a new cart to move it around. When someone did put their hand out to save it, they died instantly.


The entire first generation of apostles have banded themselves into impossibly complicated pyramid shapes out of "fear" that the Melchizedek order alone is just not safe enough. Together with this belief is the fear that if a believer doesn't go to church, or veers too much in the direction of the world that "that way tharrrr be dragons!!"  This coupled with the view that "free-flying" is very iffy, and that the only safe place is chaining every operation to a similarly chained group of people is the only safe way.


The truth is the Way is a Person, Jesus Christ. The whole idea of chaining yourself to any human or bunch of humans to bring safety is ofcourse "to go down to Egypt again for your horses". The Narrow Way is to believe what scripture says about us, that we have died, and our lives are now hidden with Christ in God. When we go the Narrow Way, taking everything through the Cross, in order that every aspect of our formerly lying view of ourselves as independent beings be utterly dealt with....guess what?


We find the Way isn't narrow at all...well the entrance may be narrow, but it leads out into a huge expanse...with tons of people here already!!!! You see this leads to the wide extravagant life that God always conceived for the people he loved so much. Life itself gives feedback on how we are doing. Life itself tells us when we are not seeing with a single eye.
"There is no smoke where there is no fire."


The remaining evil eye, if there be any, makes itself increasingly obvious.Contrary to 2nd level teaching, you won't need a pastor's sermons to point it out, both Christians and non-Christians, work colleagues, friends and family will tell you....or better still, Jesus in you as you will pick it up long before they do. The whole secondlevel infrastructure is built on similar lies about the fragility of life, the narrowness of the way and the tremendous, tremendous propensity for deception. 


The longer you spend around the Melchizedek order your self, or with others who live there, the more you will pick up the Bewitching that ironically happens in the "Deception-free" yet septic environment of 2nd level churches. 
Truly the phrase "If the light within you is in fact darkness, you can see how great the darkness is."


The Holy Spirit has given us His peace as umpire. Your mind may be sold a complicated yarn that seems true, but if your heart is unsettled...you'd better listen. "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not rely on your insight"


"Walking in the Light with other believers "describes this walk together in open communion with the Lord Jesus. This is yet another safety tool we have.


There are spiritual gifts of discernment that specifically target "iffy" seeing.


Although you cannot always tell immediately by your surroundings, because, being in warfare conditions, the demonic, or those operating in the spirit of this world are often working behind the scenes adversely for our lives...yet
by experience and maturity of walking believing we are Christ in our form, soon we get a taste for the source of problems. A lot of 2ndleveller's problems, (that is those who think of themselves as quite separate in their existence to God, as if they had a self-powered life of their own)are simply the rebounding stench of their own bad "seeing".


Points 8 to 15
I finished earlier by making the distinction that a beautiful expression of Christ is not necessarily the same as a beautiful bunch of people....outwardly.
2ndlevel organisations like their pretty "model catwalk men and women" for worshipleading. The fragrance that Paul was looking for was the sense that there was a dying and a resurrecting Body going on in a place. While this is going on, things do not necessarily look that pretty. Church has to be free to be a messy place. How else is our wrong "seeing", or "lying seeing" going to be dealt with? 
Point 9  describes the organic nature of church.
A more basic point is that Christ removes our own individual rigidities and brings us into His Life. Put a bunch of these sort of individuals together and you are bound to be organic!!  These theses are really still written at one stage of remove.
The WAY, or the corporate life only comes out of each individual entering into the Way and Life. So after around 1973, we went a tortuous route, because there was no one around much to teach us, where we saw that the emphasis on network churches, although a necessary framework to grow and discover the third level in, was really way too early to be even thinking about.


Individuals have to be the "seed that falls into the ground alone", where in the earth the seed, the true plant DNA of God's Word, germinates and grows this time into a new form entirely: a fruitful plant , making its own way out of the dirty brown soil.When this process is completed with a bunch of people, we can begin to determine what a church in the Spirit really  looks like.


Grouping a whole array of ungerminated seeds together in an independent church like Emsworth, allbeit they are anointed, prophesying, worshipping,healing seeds,- STILL DOES NOT A CHURCH MAKE.


A true ( and temporarily I am calling these 3rd level churches) will have ministry coming from "fruitful plants" and not pregerminated seeds. This kind of church needs more than anointed individuals. The Elders, mutually submitted, with not a pyramid-shape in sight, have that mature Life within them, have that single "eye" within them that they know how to feed the flock to promote the  "Way,Truth,Life" Holy Spirit cycle in a believer.


This is a tiny bit beyond just arranging for meals together in homes, or in fact any talk of homes or church buildings. This gets down to the level of what each individual is believing about his or her identity. It's raising a church that believes :
As He is , so are we in the world.


Finally, about persecution
This author writes"Biblical Christianity is a healthy threat to pagan godlessness and sinfulness, a world overcomeby greed, materialism, jealousy and any amount of demonic standards of ethics, sex, money and power."
Even this has a slightly moralistic 2ndlevel detached tone. The truth is the very Life of Jesus is Light. When we are consciously believing this Life...believing ON this Life. When we are saying to our insides "I am Christ living as me in my form," when we are nailing our faith to this kind of specificity, the life that is in us will immediately unearth some of what is going on in our vicinity.


It seems, as we read the gospels, Jesus was always in a conflicting position. He states He came not to bring peace , but a sword. It is no different for us.But it's not some sort of left-brain obstreporousness that deliberately winds people up by its moralistic obnoxiousness. It's something that comes out of our Spirit, which attacks the hidden beliefs and wrong seeings that are the true motor which drive flesh behaviour.


It is way beyond subjects such as materialism, jealousy, ethics, sex, money and power.We're talking lasar-level Light like Jesus talking to the rich man about theology and the Law. All of a sudden the Spirit has Jesus turn on the man and say...."OK then, sell all you have give to the poor and come follow Me."
The rich young ruler turns white. Jesus has hit him point blank right where He lives. In the security of His possessions.


To conclude, I think many of us see the trend that the writer sees in the Christian world at large. The point of my comments is to examine them in the light of the third level of seeing, in order to show that they  still only move us to the far externals of where Christ is really taking His Church.