Showing posts with label The Cross and Resurrection. Show all posts
Showing posts with label The Cross and Resurrection. Show all posts

Sunday, 11 February 2018

No More Blue Pill

Let me explain something.People with no faith in Christ, and that is a key, because up until now they find no need for an outside Saviour,
then (1 John 2) firstlevel Christians and secondlevel Christians......
so that's three classes of revelation concerning reality
zilch, 1 and 2.....
all three types are still dealing with things as "out there " subjects.
Our non need of Christ, or our need of Christ....but it's an out there subject.
Then comes that nowfamous moment in the Matrix film where Morpheus offers Neo the red pill or the blue pill.

The pill you take threatens your personal existence, your idea of that existence and who you are, in short your whole paradigm from which you live, your inner seeing.

We as thirdlevel Christians deal with how things actually are.
We are yes speaking the gospel, but we are speaking it in its many many bits of clothing to address the Genesis 3 spirit everybody else is living in, Christians included.

We are not preaching an out there subject.
Want an example of a thirdleveller in Christ.
A little old Indian lady who is invited into Britain in 1990 and instead of speaking diplomatically and saying how nice it is to be invited, opens her mouth , eyeballs Britain through the camera lens and says.....

YOUCAN TELL HOW CIVILISED A COUNTRY IS BY THE WAY THEY TREAT SICK AND OLD PEOPLE.
Her name was Mother Teresa, and had not MI5 or whoever later killed Princess Diana , the world would have made much much more of this woman's death, but ofcourse , that week, it was swallowed up behind the grief of Britain.

To find out where you personally are in Christ I have only to take you to the week of Jesus Crucifixion. Like the red pill or the blue pill of the Matrix you will show up where you are as I take you through that last week. The Bible is the only book that maps things forensically in what happened and how it happened. But in doing so it flags up exactly how humans behave when Darkness is moving through a situation , and like iron filings standing to attention, everybody who has not rid themselves of any hooks in their lives, are quickly sucked into performing whatever Darkness wants.
The Bible even describes Pontius Pilate psychology.
"What is truth?"
The Bible describes Peter's fear in two ways.....the fear that pushes him like a form of Catholic Army, to strike a soldier with a sword, then cause Jesus to literally have to pick up the pieces and stick them together again. The second manifestation of fear caused the three specific denials Jesus had a Word of knowledge about, seeing them ahead of time.

The Bible even forensically catches out the Romans and chief priests as they colluded after resurrection day, when they concocted the ludicrous story of the crack SAS guardsmen all falling asleep. In Roman days if you fell asleep you were killed !!!

In a similar way today, DO YOU WANT reality exposed to you? You can choose for now. But reality is still reality.

Reality says in Romans 8 that to set the mind on the flesh.....
that is this whole entire bogus form of living and believing about ourselves since Genesis 3 IS ACTUAL DEATH....
your choice

Or to set the mind on the Spirit, and what is really true is life and peace.

Now first and secondlevel Christians have got so far, but as soon as they leave Christian meetings, they cant help it, they are back in the old consciousness again, making the same mistakes. And like the apostles, when Darkness was moving big time the week of Jesus crucifixion, none of the apostles had any option,they were sucked into absolute uselessness.

That's where they were. At that point.
And Jesus MEANT IT TO BE SO.
This was their own personal Romans 7.
This was all prophesied about in Psalm 22.

TO STEP UP TO THE NEW TOTAL REALITY THE DISCIPLES HAD TO MAKE A TOTALLY NEW INTERNAL DECISION AFTER THE RESURRECTION..

There was nolonger any grounds whatsoever for any type of blue pill. This was it. LIFE, TOTAL TRUTH, SETTING THE MIND ON THE SPIRIT, and nothing else.

Thursday, 7 July 2016

The Switch





Paul Noble
Yesterday at 07:09 ·
It amazes me why some attack what they call hyper grace. It's as if they don't want God to be that good; they have to put some sort of boundary on it - because then it makes them comfortable. They call it cheap grace or greasy grace but in fact what they are offering is exactly that! How great the fathers love for us, how vast beyond all measure. The prodigal son had a script of repentance worked out with a caveat of works - make me as a hired servant. When he encountered the fathers love though, it was completely forgotten!
LikeShow More ReactionsCommentShare
3Paul Noble and 2 others
Comments
Russell Chadwick
Russell Chadwick Well said, Paul.
Like · Reply · 1 · Yesterday at 09:44
Chris Welch
Chris Welch There's just one more sticking point left.!!!
And it is the one that killed Jesus.
What's that Chris?
Well Jesus was a bit different in timing, but in no other way.
Jesus was God in the flesh because God plonked Jesus , a fully conceived egg, into Mary's womb by the Overshadowing of the Holy Spirit.
He couldn't legally do that with us.
So Jesus came as the last Adam, had to fully do the growing thing, Adam didn't, then in dying, as a perfect Lamb....
He did a "switch" thing at spirit level.
This is broken down for us in two ways in the Tabernacle and it took God a lot of headscratching to get this right.
You see, to illustrate two operations He had to use two goats.
One got burnt. One was a scapegoat.
But this was because you couldn't half kill one goat, and expect it to crawl into the wilderness.
Jesus DID BOTH THINGS for us in the Spirit. But you can do these things in the Spirit!!!!!
So the equivalent of the scapegoat bit in the wilderness, was Jesus actually being sent away with our "stuff" to Hades.
He Himself was perfect. So He deposited our foul spirit.....which includes everybody that ever was contaminated with it, and God would not allow Him to suffer decay, and raised His Perfect Son up.
So here is the clever bit.
Having ditched all our wrong attachment to the Satan spirit,
the Holy Spirit RAISED US ALL IN HIM.
Our lives, spiritually....but no less really...
( I mean carnal people think in terms of spirit being fuzzy. Jesus hammered that one by getting Thomas to feel His hands, and by making a fish barbecue beside Galilee....nothing fuzzy about that!!!!)
The BORN AGAIN WORD
The socalled HYPERGRACE WORD
is that YOU MR OR MRS HUMAN
GOT SWITCHED
AT YOUR SPIRIT CENTRE ....
It is now nolonger you that live
but Christ -you.......your spirit DNA is a fusion....but spirit is who you really are....
clothed in a soul and a body.
THIS THEN IS THE LAST STICKING POINT ON EARTH....
THIS IS WHY JESUS MARKETING WAS SO BAD ON THE DAY OF RESURRECTION....
HE COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT HIS OWN RESURRECTION
GODS CAN DO THIS TYPE OF STUFF FOR BREAKFAST
The point is MR
The point is Mrs
YOU ARE NOW GOD IN THE FLESH, IF YOU BELIEVE THE MESSAGE OF THE SWITCH ON THE CROSS....
WE ARE THE DEMONSTRATION OF WHAT JESUS CAME TO DO, TO GIVE US INDESTRUCTIBLE LIFE, AND LIFT US OUT OF DEATH.
Be ye lifted up ye Ancient Doors
Let the King of Glory come in.

Sunday, 24 November 2013

TEF7 - A Christ Identity by Daniel Yordy



© Daniel Yordy 2013 The Original plus additional audio and PDF download is here

Be transformed by the renewing of your mind… Romans 12:2

God created angels strong. Angels can do what they are created to do.

God created man weak, yet with the capacity to contain and release God Himself. Man is designed to be filled with another Person. Thus all the hard-wiring of the human form, all the programming of the human psyche was designed by God to enable a continual inter-relationship of Person inside of person.

God does not create simplistic things. When you read Dr. Paul Brand’s explanations of how the parts of the human body, things such as hearing and seeing, actually work, you say with David, “I am fearfully and wonderfully made.” The human body is extraordinarily complicated, the human spirit more-so. The human psyche, created at the juncture of the human body and the human spirit is equally complicated.

Thus we can conclude that God, in His make-up, is rather complex.

We are designed perfectly, in all the fantastic complications of our beings, to fit in every way this complicated Being who “fills us with all of His fullness.” And we are designed perfectly, in all the complexity of spirit, soul, and body, to release this Great and Mighty Being into His creation as rivers. We fit God in every possible way, in both earth and heaven.
The human body is extraordinarily complicated, the human spirit more-so. 
Then God, in His deliberate intention, having created Adam so like Himself, that He could fill and move through Adam in every possible way an infinite God is, did not “finish” Adam’s construction, but left the final part in Adam’s hand.

Adam was filled with peace, yes, but he was not finished. He was constructed to contain all of God in Person and in fullness; he was designed to release God out into all creation. But God Himself had not formerly moved into this man who would contain Him. God cannot do such a thing; He will not violate anyone’s heart or person. He will never intrude. God is love.

To possess God, we ourselves must eat of Him.

Thus, God placed two forms of Himself before Adam.

In the first form of God Adam could choose, knowledge about God would come into Adam’s mind and heart, leaving him responsible to fit that knowledge where it should go into all the wiring and programming of which he was made.

The second form of God Adam could choose, however, was God Himself in Person, coming in as Adam’s very and only life.

Willingness of heart was God’s requirement before He would fill Adam with Himself, thus the tree of life was a thorn tree and it’s life could be won only through pain. This willingness to endure pain for life is also part of this God who would fill us full and part of our design for Him. Love suffers long.

Consider Adam’s state, then. Let’s say that he has in him, spirit, soul, and body, ten million receptors, each one designed to connect with a specific aspect of God’s Being. Every single one of these receptors is hanging there in Adam, unconnected. But Adam now has his own knowledge about God; he has the law. Thus Adam himself can take each outward definition of God that he possesses and attempt to fit that piece of knowledge with the correct receptor inside his person, his identity.

Except he didn’t much try. Now he had a better idea – fig leaves and tree trunks, and especially blaming his wife, much better things to attach to his ten million unfinished parts than religious knowledge about God!

What I am driving at is this truth. Angels are not concerned about identity; animals are not concerned about identity. They all are what they are and that’s it.

Then God ...did not “finish” Adam’s construction, but left the final part in Adam’s hand.

Man is utterly unique. If God Himself in Person is not attached in every perfect way to every single one of our ten million receptors, and if God Himself in Person is not flowing out of all the channels by which we were made to release God, than we are a mess.

Human identity, then, is the human effort to plant meaning onto all the receptors disconnected from God. Man, alone in creation, must have an identity formed from outside of his own person. Man, complete, is God’s Person in fullness filling man’s person in perfection. Man is a vessel created to contain Another Person.

Our entire identity, then, comes out of our lifetime of trying to fit some sort of meaning onto every one of ten million seemingly meaningless receptors inside our person. It is, to put it bluntly, absurd. But we draw meaning from everywhere; we especially draw meaning from our association and attachments to other people, especially to large groupings of people. That’s why symbols such as flags or logos are so very important to us. They remind us of what is “supposed to be attached” to our receptors when we are feeling empty and disconnected.

Then we have Christians; Lord Jesus save us.

Christian identity is such an incredible mess. Being a “Christian” is to make an intense effort, much more than most humans, to cram four unrelated realms of identity onto their ten million receptors in an unending variation of confusion. Now, one of those identities is Christ Jesus living in our hearts, yes. And for some, He grows in meaning and attraction. But most are also very, very busy hooking up three other complex things onto those same receptors. One is the law, the tree of knowledge about right and wrong writ large. Another is the world, which in the west has been “Christianized” and therefore sure “looks like Christ” (a lamb with horns of power; a superhero “Christ”). And the fourth source of identity is all the imagination about God convoluted up by the Christian mind, but that God Himself never says.

He will not violate
 anyone’s heart or person.
 He will never intrude. 
God is love.
To possess God, 
we ourselves must eat of Him.


Jesus in our hearts brings wonderful peace, yes. But all the other forms of identity that we attempt to cram in alongside of Him provide for most Christians agonizing and unending psychosis. That’s why Jesus said in Revelation 3 that it would be better to be a happy pagan (cold to God) than to live in Christian psychosis (lukewarm, that is, some of Christ mixed with a whole lot of other stuff).

All the years I lived in deeper truth, mightily anointed of God, Christian community, I was truly psychotic, along with everyone else. And much of what they spoke into me served only to increase my own confusion. Look at the word at the beginning of this letter. “Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” That was just one more thing I “had to do.” And I surely did not know how, and any idea I may have had, I was certainly a failure at implementing. I believed with all my heart that I must renew my mind. I did not know how, but in desperation, knowing that I must obtain life or die, I surely tried. I surely tried, and I more surely failed.

God wins our hearts first, before He begins to change our minds.

I think it could be easier to lead a happy pagan ignorant of God – straight into Christ, than it is to lead a “Christian” into Christ. Christians lead the unsaved to Christ, yes, but then fill their minds and hearts with an anti-Christ identity of confusion. (Jesus said something along these lines, didn’t He?)

All the years I lived in deeper truth, mightily anointed of God, Christian community, I was truly psychotic, along with everyone else. 

I have painted this picture as clearly as I can to show us the great task in our hand, that is, altering, in the joy of Christ, our identity from confusion to Christ.

We know our true identity by the three verses that are far larger than and that swallow up entirely all the rest of the Bible. In fact these are not even three verses, but three phrases. They are the sum total of who and what we are.

— You are filled with All the Fullness of God —

— Abide in Me and I in you —

— Rivers of Living Water flow out of your belly. —

All three of these statements are talking about our human makeup. Let me give a rough definition of our true human identity. (I use percentages for no other reason than to give us some form of picture, the concept of percentage does not otherwise fit.)

Eighty percent of the human is God the Father in Person filling us full with all of Himself in all of His divinity. Ten percent of the human is Christ Jesus living as us in weakness. And ten percent of the human is God by His Spirit flowing out from us, bringing life and joy to all.

Just like Jesus, we are the form and shape of God in creation.

Here is a diagram of our true identity, a diagram I have used before.



Our true identity is to have every single one of our ten million receptors, spirit, soul, and body, connected perfectly with that particular place in God’s complex Being and Person to which they were designed to connect and God Himself, then, flowing through those connections all through us in joy and power, and flowing on out through our many channels into His creation as rivers of Spirit.

This is the normal Christian life; it is the normal human life. It is the image and likeness of God. Perfecting our true identity and “the renewing of our minds” are the same thing.

Our task is to escape “Christian” identity by taking on Christ identity, that is, as Paul said, to be clothed with the Lord Jesus Christ. Being clothed with the Lord Jesus Christ causes us to put off the false identities of Christian thinking. You see, a receptor cannot be attached to it’s rightful place in God without also throwing off the false thing we placed on it to somehow give ourselves meaning (God’s definition of false “flesh”). But Christ always comes first by faith.

God wins our hearts first; then He changes our mind. As we win all true meaning, the false meaning is cast aside. That willingness is the win of our hearts; it is being rooted and grounded in love.

Adam’s heart would have been fully God’s before he had ever climbed high enough in the tree to pluck the fruit of life and eat it. Thus Jesus said, “To those who overcome, I give to eat the fruit of the tree of life.” “Overcoming” and “God winning our heart utterly for Himself” are the same thing. To overcome means to come over.

The only thing that can change our minds is to eat of the fruit of life, as Jesus said, “Except you eat My flesh and drink My blood.” Only hearts won fully by God are willing to – desirous of – eating that fruit.

“If any man thirst. . .”

Never in all the history of the world have the requirements of the law ever won any one’s heart for Christ. In complete contrast, righteousness acquired by self becomes the greatest barrier against Christ.

What was the moment when God won my heart, fully and without holding back? It was the moment when, in the sweet Spirit of Christ, I saw that Jesus had become me, that I was swallowed up utterly into Him, that He carries all that I am, and that He lives, now, as every part and particle of the human me.

To know that He carries all that I am at all times and in every way is the sweetest reality in the universe. A God who would take me into Himself as the Lord Jesus Christ, stumbling, bloody and bruised, carrying me through death into life, along a way I could never traverse by myself, this is a God who forever holds my heart as His own.

Never in all the history of the world have the requirements of the law ever won any one’s heart for Christ. In complete contrast, righteousness acquired by self becomes the greatest barrier against Christ.

Then He asks me to allow Himself in Person to be all that I am, to have no other identity than Father God filling me full, than Christ Jesus, my most Precious Friend, living as me in weakness, and the Holy Ghost just always billowing out of me as rivers, to be nothing else, to know nothing else. This I would do, with all my heart.

In Christendom there is a definition of the propitiation of Jesus that is abhorrent to us. That is the idea that God punished Jesus with our punishment, that redemption was an act of injustice committed by God against His Son. This idea says, “We humans deserved to be thrown into hell, but God took the punishment meant for us and punished Jesus instead. Thus we get to go to heaven; that’s what being a ‘Christian’ is all about.”

We see a completely different picture.



The BLOOD – The CROSS – The 

RESURRECTION of the Lord Jesus Christ.

First and foremost, the path of Jesus through the Atonement is God Himself showing all creation who and what He is for the first time. And seeing God as He really is, we discover ourselves caught up into Him, that He takes us into Himself and carries us through a path we could never find ourselves, all the way up the tree of life. And there God Himself gives us to eat of that fruit, fruit we could never have come near by ourselves.

However, inside that most real reality, there is also a picture to us that is central to our transformation, to our change of identity. You see, we are very psychological beings. The picture of ten million receptors, of which nine million, nine hundred thousand are attached to all the wrong things, with only one hundred thousand being attached to Christ living in our hearts, this picture shows us how screwed up our psyche really has been.

Thus Jesus said knowing our true psyche causes us to lose this psyche of Adam’s confusion, that is, having every last one of those ten million receptors attached fully into their rightful places in the God who fills us full.

These three MIGHTY things, three powerful images, rooted in absolute reality, having come out from God and shown themselves as utterly profound and absolute inside the physicality of this planet and inside of time, are given to us FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE of severing us forever from the imagination of the tree of knowledge, from all the foolish and false things we have attached from birth to our ten million receptors, to give our empty lives some sort of meaning.

The BLOOD – The CROSS – The RESURRECTION of the Lord Jesus Christ.

These three things ARE total and absolute.

He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2

The Blood erases all sin; God simply cannot remember any of it.

For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died. 2 Corinthians 5:14

The Cross eliminates the sinner; he no longer exists, end of story.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22

The Resurrection is who we are; each in his time.

If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. Now all things are of God… 2 Corinthians 5:17-18

God made these three pictures total and absolute for us so that we could utterly let go of any need for any other meaning in our lives. Our human psyche needs such a picture.

There is no sin; there is no sinner. The purpose of the sacrifice of Jesus is so we can turn our backs on any and every concern over “me,” and what “I do,” and busy ourselves with the one thing, the only thing that is important, knowing this God who fills us full.

Here is the most important negative verse in the Bible.

For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Romans 10:3-4

You see, every voice in Christendom, it seems, argues that we need to find meaning, to attach our receptors into every possible form of our own righteousness, our own doing, our own “obedience.” Yet every receptor that holds onto that which has no meaning is a receptor not enjoying its place in God.

God gave us the bold and absolute picture of the Blood, He gave us the bold and absolute picture of the Cross, and He gave us the bold and absolute picture of the RESURRECTION so that we could leap utterly into the tree of life and never worry about any aspect of the tree of knowledge ever again. So that we simply never again concern ourselves with ourselves. We are a done deal. Now, all we need to do is plug every part of our minds into God in Person filling us full without ever once worrying about any limitation or inability on our part.

To know God and to know Jesus-Sent — Christ is perfected in our weakness.

Just like Adam, we are part of our own creation. God will never form Christ in us without our active and continual involvement. He simply never pushes anyone around, but He does all things in joy and delight together with us, including transforming us into the image of Christ, the express image of the Father.

God has given us a very specific mechanism, a precise exercise by which we take on our Christ identity, losing in the process even the memory of all non-meaning we have ever known.

Then here is what we discover. This is a big deal. We are not engaged in the task of changing our identity to all that is Christ – only. No! Much more than that, we discover that by winning our true Christ identity, we are altering the identity of the entire universe, both heaven and earth. The universe has never known it’s true identity; all it has ever known was the false duality painted by Adam.

This is a big deal. We are setting creation free.

The book of Revelation is all about identity.

…For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Revelation 19:10

And I will give to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth. Revelation 11:3

To witness, to prophecy, is to speak.

God creates all things by speaking. God opens His mouth to speak, and the Lord Jesus is always flowing out of the Father as the light and life that creates and sustains all things.

Then God SAID, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God SAW the light, that it was good.

Here is the foundational principal by which God brings forth everything.

…God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did. Romans 4:17

First God says, then God sees. If this is God’s reality, how can anything else be ours?

We speak, then we see what we speak.

Let’s continue on in Romans 4. (Abraham) contrary to hope, in hope believed… according to what was spoken… And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead… He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 18-21

So, you see, the line “And God SAW the light, that it was good,” that seeing of God was the seeing of faith. God spoke light, therefore light became. God saw goodness, therefore all things were good.

Speaking comes first, seeing comes second. Both are by faith; both enter into the darkness, into “nothingness” before they ever bring forth their reality.

Our reality in God cannot be any different than God’s reality in Himself.

We transform ourselves and the entire universe by the words that we speak.

…For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Creating and sustaining, forming and fashioning all things by speaking, and then by seeing what is spoken by faith, that it is truly good, is the nature and Being of this God who fills us with His Person.

When we speak what God speaks concerning Christ our only life, then God speaks through us. If God speaks through us (prophecy), then what’s the problem? There is none. Hold in faith and see God alone.

But it is absolutely true that, if we have not let go of all the meaning we find for ourselves in all “Christian” identity, double-hearted and double-minded, if God has not yet won our hearts, we will not speak Christ alone. Rather, we will speak an unending mixture of confusion. Our lives will always follow our speaking. And speaking Christ always begins in the darkness, that is, by faith.

Those who speak separation from Christ must live separated from Christ, trying as best they can, “with God’s help” of course, though God never seems to “help,” to do what they “know” God wants them to do. And to live in the inescapable knowledge that they are always falling short. This is the nightmare in which so many of our brethren live.

For their sakes, we speak Christ. Their dilemma is the first reconciliation we carry in our hearts.

But just as the world fights the Lamb tooth and nail in order to hold tightly to its meaningless identity, so also do our brethren. Thus we walk the path of Christ for their sakes, laying down our lives for them.

And so I want to include the ten most important verses in the Bible as statements of faith, in short form, as the speaking of Christ.

Speak these things; prophecy Christ.

As you speak Christ, God through you is transforming not only your entire identity, but the identity of the entire creation as well.


Here are the ten most important verses of the Bible, written as personal confessions of faith. Speak them out loud; shout them, over and over, until you see as God sees, until you see through eyes of fire.

1. From the very beginning, God determined to make me just like Jesus.

2. I am filled with all the fullness of God.

3. God flows out from me as rivers of living water bringing life and joy to all.

4. I cast down every voice that speaks against the Word God speaks, against Christ my only life.

5. Christ is my life; I have no other life.

6. I boldly enter the Holiest, the throne of God – with my heart sprinkled always with Blood, and with my body, flesh of His flesh, washed pure and clean.

7. I exult boastfully in all the victory of Christ revealed in me. I speak Christ; I keep the joy of my confidence high.

8. I love you; I lay down my life for you.

9. I set creation free.

10. Just as Jesus is IN the Father, so I am in Him and He is in me, every part of me in Him and Him in every part of me. I abide in Christ; He abides in me.

And thus we know God and we know Jesus-Sent.

I will continue weaving together these three strands in further letters. First, our speaking the prophetic word of Christ into all reality, second, the transformation of our identity and the identity of the universe as we do so, and third the reaction of the things in the darkness as the light turns on. All three of these things are woven all through the vision John saw on Patmos. They are indeed the revelation of Jesus Christ, the unveiling.

They are, in fact, the only things I have written about in seven years of writing. And so I will continue to speak and to write until all creation is gloriously free.







Wednesday, 24 August 2011

FOT6 - The First Passover


Feast of Tabernacles - George H. Warnock

CHAPTER 2 - THE FEAST OF PASSOVER

The first Passover was observed by the children of Israel in the land of Egypt, on the eve of their departure out of the house of bondage into the wilderness. It was the evening of the fourteenth day of the first month. God had raised up a deliverer for the people in the person of the Man Moses, and had equipped him with such power and authority in the Spirit that he was to Pharaoh even "as God." Many and dreadful and great were the signs and wonders which were wrought by his hand, so that Egypt became utterly wasted at the hands of a God of judgment. One by one the plagues fell upon the land; and time and again Pharaoh promised to let the people go, only to harden his heart when the plague was lifted. Finally God declared His judgment upon the firstborn of all the land of Egypt--and then Egypt was literally "glad" to see the people depart, so dreadful and far-reaching was the destruction of the Almighty.

A NEW BEGINNING

"And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you" (Ex. 12:1, 2). As from this date Israel was to have a new calendar. It was to be the first month instead of the second, because God was going to deliver them from Egyptian bondage, and bring them into a new experience and into a new land. Israel's old associations were to be gone forever. No longer would they serve the Egyptian taskmaster under hard bondage, but they were to serve the Lord their God. No longer were they to eat the leeks and onions and garlic of Egypt, but they would feast upon manna from heaven, and drink water out of the flinty rock. No longer would they abide in the houses of their little world in Egypt, but they would henceforth follow the cloud of glory from one place to another, from one experience to another, even from "glory to glory." Had not the Lord plainly declared, "I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; and I am come down to deliver them." (Ex. 3:7, 8). And so, to deliver Israel from the judgment of the firstborn, and to prepare them for a new life as a separated and holy nation, God instituted the Passover. And this event would mean the preservation of Israel in the hour of God's judgments upon the land of Egypt, and the beginning of a new era for the people of God.

So it is that the Cross of Christ becomes the beginning of a new era for the children of God. Old things begin to pass away, and all things begin to become new. The bondage of the world, the flesh, and the Devil, gives way to a liberty in the Spirit, and a life of servitude to the God of our salvation. "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." (Rom. 6:18). From the time we receive Christ as our personal Saviour, and really partake of the benefits of Calvary's Cross--from that very hour we begin a new life in God. And whereas, we once served the enemy of our souls under cruel bondage, now we have become the voluntary bond-slaves of Christ. And after all, the only liberty man will ever find in this world is the liberty which he drives in becoming the "slave" of the Lord Jesus. Paul delighted in calling himself a "doulos," a "bond-slave" of Christ. Man is only free when he is bound to Christ with a chain of love and friendship which neither the cares of life nor the attacks of Satan can sever.

A LAMB FOR AN HOUSE

Our Passover Lamb is sufficient for all our needs. And though men have appropriated His grace and blessing from the foundation of the world even until now--still there remaineth grace sufficient for any sinner who comes to Christ. "And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; the ye, always having all sufficiency in all things may abound to every good work." (2 Cor. 9:8).

THE LAMB TO BE WITHOUT BLEMISH

This was necessary because it typified the true "Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world." (Jn. 1:29). "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot." (1 Pet. 1:18, 19).

THE LAMB MUST BE KILLED

Modernism will accept the Lamb of God as He teaches in the temple, lives a life of righteousness and purity, and expounds His parables. But they will have nothing to do with the Lamb who was crucified for their sins. And therefore the door of salvation is closed to them. For there is positively no acceptance for any man before God except by the shedding of the precious blood of Christ. It is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul, and "without shedding of blood is no remission." (Heb. 9:22).

THE BLOOD MUST BE APPLIED

It is not even sufficient that the lamb should be slain; the blood of the slain lamb must be applied to the door-posts of the house. In other words, there must be an individual and personal appropriation, by faith, of the work of the Cross. "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation (Mercy Seat) through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus". (Rom. 3:25, 26).

THE FLESH MUST BE EATEN

Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed." (Jn. 6:53-55). It was a hard saying then, and it is a hard saying today. How can we eat the flesh of Christ? So reasons the natural man. But we can do so by the Spirit, through faith. We may eat His flesh in daily meditation and appropriation of the Word. We may eat His flesh in prayer and communion by the Spirit. And we may eat his flesh as we discern the Lord's Body in the Communion. Jesus said, and incidentally it was on the occasion of the last Passover, "This is my body which is given for you; this do in remembrance of me." (Lk. 22:19). For He was the fulfillment of every Passover Lamb which was ever offered in Jewish ceremony; and the Substance having been revealed, the type has passed away.

THE PEOPLE MUST DEPART

The children of Israel were to eat the Passover lamb with their loins girded and with their shoes on their feet--ready to depart from Egypt. The moment a man receives Christ as his Passover Lamb, he must there and then be prepared to depart from the world and all of its allurements. He is not saved by works, and it is entirely unscriptural to teach holiness as the means of salvation. For it is not within the power of any man in Adam's fallen race to present himself acceptably before God. There is none righteous, no not so much as one; and by the works of the law there shall no flesh be justified in God's sight. (See Rom. 3:9-31). He receives the efficacy of the blood, and eats of the Passover Lamb by faith--and that constitutes his salvation. But when one identifies himself with Christ he must depart from the world and its corrupting influences, and be prepared to follow his Lord in the pathway of separation and consecration. Then only, by the works of grace produced in the heart, do we behold the scriptural signs and evidences of the salvation of Christ.

THE BLOOD IS THE SIGN

"When I see the blood I will pass over you." (Ex. 12:13). For our part we must apply the blood by faith to our hearts. Our feet must be shod, and we must be ready to leave the old ways behind. We must participate in Christ, and give evidence of the fact that we are true disciples. But so far as God is concerned He beholds this one token: "When I see the blood I will pass over you." God is eternally satisfied with the work of Calvary's Cross, and we as God's children are "accepted in the Beloved." (Eph. 1:6). "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2 Cor. 5:21).

'Five bleeding wounds He bears,
Received on Calvary,
They pour effectual prayers,
They strongly plead for me;
Forgive him, O forgive, they cry,
Nor let that ransomed sinner die.'

O, there are so many, many things that we have left unsaid concerning the Passover Lamb. He is the theme of the whole Bible. All spiritual blessings stem from Calvary, and all power and glory and majesty pertaineth to the Lamb that was slain, and He is therefore "Worthy... to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing." (Rev. 5:12).

Chris writes: During Christ's ministry with the disciples, presumably they experienced two Passovers together, and then in the Upper Room they had the "meal" which Jesus had longed to share with them. The Last Supper. Or the last Passover meal.


Everything happened as normal in the meal, the way it was laid out, all of them seated around Jesus, the Rabbi....except

THIS TIME...

when He reached for the matsos to break it, and poured out the wine for everyone to share....

He said something different.

Something that would change history forever...


Not just for Jews

Not just for the early church

But speaking from a contemporary view....

I would say, the Church is only just unpacking the very outsides of His statements....for I sense in my spirit....

these words are going to mean more and more and more as we live this stuff, as I have more fully since 22 years ago...


Jesus added these words to the usual ones

THIS

IS

MY BODY

AND BLOOD

shed

FOR YOU.....

Monday, 25 July 2011

Thoughts about 'if' we were actually saved by the "Cross'! - Andre Ousterhuizen

‘The death of Jesus Christ, represented by the Cross, was not actually the ultimate ‘salvation’ or ‘redemption’ or even the ‘reconciliation’ of fallen mankind back to God.

The dying of Jesus on the Cross in fact signifies and represents
the termination of the old corrupted Adamic race, and the old spoilt Creation itself.

His death was the very ending, and indeed the putting to death of ‘the death’ of all mankind, in the sight of God.

A necessary stage in the unfolding process of God’s action towards mankind, in ultimately undoing the demise of the human race in Adam, and ‘restoring’, ‘redeeming’ and ‘reconciling’ His creation back to ‘glory’.


As the dead body of Jesus of Nazareth was carried into the grave, little did His loyal band of followers know that they were signalling and participating in a dramatic and decisive moment in human history?


They were carrying into the tomb provided by Joseph of Aramathia, the entire fallen human race, now ‘slain’ in Jesus Christ!


As the tomb was ‘sealed’ they provided final ‘closure’, in the sight of God, to the old condemned Adamic order of mankind, and indeed the original contaminated Creation itself.

The Resurrection of Jesus Christ from out of death was in fact the ‘Redemption’ of mankind!

His death was the very ending, 
and indeed the putting to death
of ‘the death’ of all mankind, 
in the sight of God.
It was indeed in the powerful Creative Action of God in raising Jesus Christ from out of death, that mankind and creation was ‘saved’, ‘redeemed’, and ‘reconciled’ to God.


The ‘empty tomb’ speaks of the‘re-birthing’ from out of death, or out of ‘non-existence’, of a brand ‘New’ Creation.


Represented in the Resurrected Person of the Lord Jesus Christ is contained a humanity now delivered from the bondage to evil, slavery to sin, a mankind justified and forgiven, and reconciled to its Maker!’


It was only in the light of the ‘Resurrected ’ Jesus, that the Apostles and the early Church, and even we today, could even begin to ‘retrospectively’ and ‘prospectively’ comprehend Who Jesus Christ really was and is, and what the Trinity accomplished for and on behalf of mankind in and through Him!’

Thursday, 16 June 2011

Why Charismatic Christianity is crap

First published in my Facebook note.

Well, that got your attention.
Charismatic christianity per se is not crap. It is a growth stage. I didn't have room in the title to put what I really think.
Charismatic Christianity as it is presented by its leaders all over the world is crap. Why? Because they NEVER present it for what it is....a through stage. It is "young men " Christianity according to the list in 1 John 2 where St John, one of the first twelve apostles of the Lamb, and, most notably the one who"loved " Jesus, the only one who was present at the death of Christ.....
Have I laid sufficient weight to his standing and authority to speak?
Now John never spoke the words " The charismatic movement is the young men stage", but from scripture alone, even before we get down to history, it is possible to be really clear about this.
So, just as no one would say teenage is rubbish and should be done away with, tempted as we might be, we cannot do away with this manifestation of a Christian through stage either.
What is wrong is that  leaders imply the charismatic movement IS "IT". They even imply we should be like them, and when we are we will be mature and lead charismatic conferences just like them.
In 2008 in Lakeland,Florida, some of the world's longstanding charismatic eldership swooped like vultures to give credence to what  was going on in the revival as it was being televised over months by God Channel. In principle, I cannot quarrel with the idea. I quarrel with the perceived charismatic notion that they are mature leaders.
They were all mature charismatic leaders. All of them have done the rounds. All have raised up large charismatic megachurches. They know how to buy or stage large auditoriums where thousands come to sing, where worship groups lead them, and where these ministries have developed great encouraging teaching skills whereby they can keep you enthralled for over an hour. Actually, they know far more than this because they will all have personal mighty supernatural giftings. People don't just get into these positions because they are good speakers, but because their particular gifts and callings have been recognized and appreciated over decades.
Harvard Student Leaders
 But , you know, back to the natural picture, say universities. Universities develop their own pecking order. They stage events. Leaders emerge. Perhaps even leaders that can hold hundreds or thousands enthralled with their speech and ideas. But no one anywhere is describing a student leader however charismatic, as someone who could simply walk into
the Oval Office and take over the nation of the USA.  It is understood that these 20-22 year olds maybe Kings in their own Harvard or wherever pond, but they are not mature enough to lead a nation.
St Paul used the ironic term in the Bible of "super apostles". He obviously suffered from people politics in his day in the then still fresh expressions of church. He chided Christians in his letters with phrases like "I could not address you as mature." "Would that you were kings" "How is it that some say they are of Apollos, some of Peter etc.Do you not know that ALL are yours?"
 This is one of the give aways that you cannot fake. I mean, try as hard as you might to organise your charismatic movement against it, but it will still bleed through the framework.
What is that?
Immature people, naturally or spiritually do not have the breadth of older people. They run down narrow tramlines. They find security in niches. They follow a very small handful of teachers in more or less the same stream.
Be it,proclaiming the charismatic church as a mature version of church.......
or Benny Hinn and Morris Cerullo even implying to an audience that we should aspire to be like them (although some of the power of their anointing is, most admit, pretty impressive) is terribly misleading. What , you mean able to speak to thousands of people about faith, signs and wonders, and other "young men" subjects of the Bible?  That's maturity is it?
No. According to the Bible,going into personal deaths on behalf of raising up others  to know Christ in them the hope of glory. Going into a church building and sniffing the air to  determine whether we can savour the death and resurrection of Christ...in other words the amount Christ is reproduced in those people. "Do I find among you Christ crucified," Paul asks.
It's a different order of ministry again. It's a ministry carrying with it a far greater order of authority. For it presses people into reality. The end result of such ministry is that people really are Kings in their own area or locality, as Paul describes.
We're not shadowboxing as is often the case in the charismatic movement. We're getting people to "mesh" with their surroundings, like cogs on a driveshaft. Only this particular driveshaft is Romans 8, where the end result is that creation itself is set free around us.
As you can read in the Melchizedek post on Rees Howells, before Rees set his face, the world's freedoms were terribly threatened by several dictators. After he had finished , the power of a lot of them had been broken. His declarations of faith had real world effects. But it was a calling for which he had been trained over decades. It was not a sudden whim.
So once again I say, there is no getting around "the charismatic" through stage. What is crap, is calling it mature church.
Mature church has  Father level (1 John 2) leaders, not mature charismatics. I'll say that again. Father level people lead the mature version of church in the Earth. Charismatic leaders lead the charismatic movement.

Monday, 30 May 2011

Steve Harvey introduces Christ and Facebook furore



Steve Harvey stand up comedian ends his spot suddenly with the words....

If I had to announce Jesus....it'd be something like this.

Actually I posted this on Facebook about a year ago, but Jon Sidnell has just put it up on his blog. I'm posting it here, because of the furore I just caused on Facebook with these words:
Chris Welch
Everyone's seen the evangelical/charismatic bumper sticker "Don't follow me, follow Christ".While this crap might work in the States it frickin doesn't in the UK. How good that the real gospel is about The Way.It's safe to follow people in The Way

Friday at 19:15 via BlackBerry · Friends only ·LikeUnlike · .
Below, for those interested is the long ensuing conversation. But I'm posting this video on here to illustrate both sides of the coin. This video made me cry again. Why? Because this is not in church. This is a "freewill offering" done by a standup comedian of all people in a secular show surrounded by many unbelievers and some believers. He didn't need to do it. Professionally, it may have been suicide...but I think not. And the reaction of the audience, and him throwing the mike down just has me bawling again.

On the other hand Steve is exemplifying what the American Christian knows , then stopping short.......................

You see, our Jesus did all these things. You may have noticed He even played down the resurrection. It was about as muted as He could manage, bearing in mind how many angels were jumping down up and down in heaven, and how the Father was leaping around....but here on earth, Jesus got it down to a couple of angels, a welcoming committee of about 2, and one of those mistaking him for the gardner.

YOU SEE SAINTS...His resurrection wasn't really the point. And this is what I was meaning about this weak and feeble "Don't follow me (implication: I'm as lost as the rest of America) follow Christ".

NO....NO.....NO..... Jesus's point is this, caught by revelation in St Paul's Ephesians letter
chapter 3 verses 8 to 10.
8 To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given,
to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,
9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery
which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;
10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known
through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.

So this is the bit Steve missed and most Americans miss, because their gospel doesn't work.
It works on Sundays. People turn round their lives a bit. They know more about the Bible.Many like Bill Johnson's church in Redding have pressed through into an anointing for healing and supernaturally imparting blessing to folk. But once out the door.....hmmmm. Yes, they pray for people on the street, and God really steps in. But without a third level understanding of "As He is , so are we in the world", your Christianity just cannot really work.

But you know saints, the point of the resurrection of Christ is that the Old Adam we were tied into is now dead. Utterly utterly dead. Have you seen an 18 classification film of out and out violence? You know, when the characters have destruction written right across merciless faces.
Well Jesus set His face in a similar fashion in the Garden. He'd made His announcement the day before in the Upper Room. Notice faith speaks FIRST. "Now is the ruler of this world cast down". The first Adam, the appended powers and principalities went down into the grave in the dead Body of Jesus. He brutally brutally murdered them in His own Body. Worse than the worst 18 film carnage you ever saw. Not one bit of remorse and mercy showing in Jesus eyes. He smashed them all to pieces and left them there in hell to rot!!!
Then the Holy Spirit breathed life back into His mortal body, this time to move all of His imprisoned creation back into the quarters they were designed for. He caught us up together with Him in the heavenly places. We are not in the first Adam. We are in Christ.

But when Jesus was raised, He had a problem. How to play down the resurrection just long enough for the FINAL DENOUEMENT of ALL TIME. You see if His own resurrection had been overplayed, and frankly , it could have been....if even His birth got a whole angelic orchestra and choir......but you see this would have wrecked the final ACT of the play. This would be like Miss Marple telling you who the murderer was half way through, and wrecking the end of the programme.

THE POINT IS:
Jesus resurrection is SO REAL that it is going to be demonstrated in and through the Body of Christ NOW, this side of the second coming, through the BODY of CHRIST throughout the Earth. And indeed, individuals are the manifestation,the demonstration of this hidden wisdom of God even now, and ever since Pentecost.
It's just that in the same way 3000 of us were gobsmacked in Friends Meeting House in the Fountain Trust meeting in 1972 when we all started singing in tongues together, and wave upon wave of angelic goosebump swept left then right over our gathering.....when, hardly any of us knew singing in tongues existed, let alone how to do it....but here was heaven descending upon us to teach us.

Well , this is what I mean, when corporately, as we get caught up in the resurrection of Christ, catching the immensity of what has already been accomplished, we will in the same way find ourselves suddenly well out of our depth, doing things we had no idea were possible in a gravity ruled earth, and in a timebound earth. I already feel that I've been in some gobsmacking things in my time. Fountain Trust. The London House Church meetings. Darmstadt with Mother Basilea Schlink and her fruit trees and giant goldfish. The Dales Bible weeks with the angelic appearances, and experiences of spiritual warfare. The Presence of God in Emsworth Church. The Presence of God regularly and tangibly felt here in Havant Church, and so many jawdropping answers to prayer. But nobody, nobody can begin to imagine what power, what forcefield of heaven will be on a worldwide Body caught up with all three levels of understanding the revelation of Jesus Christ IN US , now, this side of heaven, demonstrating to principalities and powers,

that whereas they, IN THE MIDST of light, glory, praise, and heaven's throne, rose up to declare their own independence and entry into selfish darkness....

The Bride
standing by Night (Psalm 134) in the Holy place of God
Here on earth
making the choice
for the ONE TRUE KING
whose right it is to Bring all things into Himself
and Present them to the Father.

Now that gets an ovation !!!!!! Now do you understand my heart Connie Rockwell Cooke,having written me off as just another sectarian crackpot?
How close to madness is the True gospel. It is just too glorious for most Americans.


---------------------------


Connie Rockwell-Cooke In the U.S. there is a cult called The Way. I hope that's not what you are referring to. I would rather the bumper sticker stay the way it is and say "follow Christ". I don't know why you would have a problem with that if you are a true believer.
Friday at 19:21 · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading....Carol Lucas Winkler Whhhhhaaaaat?????
Friday at 19:46 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch I tell you why it's cultish....we proclaim the Way , which is Christ in us as us. Don't follow me follow Christ is the kind of abstraction the diciples spent 3 years having surgically removed!!!
Saturday at 09:32 · LikeUnlike.Connie Rockwell-Cooke You believe a different gospel. I don't know what your game is but I don't have time for it. See ya.
Saturday at 09:41 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch The Way we preach is not us ofcourse,this is the very apostolic Zeus club we are removing ourselves from as did Paul in Acts.No we preach a Living Way which we model,which is Christ in us the Hope of glory.Do not take offense at the Truth.What on Earth would you have done when Jesus said Eat My flesh
Saturday at 10:15 · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading....Paul Noble Hey Chris you've got my anointing for being misunderstood LoL - if we are "true believers" we are like Christ because he is in us I have his spiritual DNA - so actually if we are true disciples and following Jesus - ie we are in the way a...long with hundreds of other believers. Its ok for others to follow us ( Paul said follow me ) he wasn't being proud he just knew who he was in Christ. If I am truly discipling others they will be following us not in a cultish fashion but because they see beyond us because they see Christ in us.See more
Saturday at 11:03 · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading....Chris Welch Imagine will you the first time a man widely perceived as a Rabbi looks you in the eye and says Eat my flesh, and drink My blood. That's all you've got to go on plus the healings and miracles, which actually wouldn't be so different to look... at than a Benny Hinn meeting or Morris Cerullo meeting.You've got no resurrection at this point, just a very human looking man saying this, and "follow me"....and talking blasphemy about God being His Father.See more
Saturday at 14:05 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch The furore we have just seen here, is exactly what Jesus experienced in John 6. This is exactly the reason the Spirit gets people to use different phraseologies and pictures...because we "have the name of being alive, but are not". We say w...e're Jews but are not. Traditional American orthodoxy says it is perfectly OK to say to people to follow Christ,but don't follow us. What does this produce? It produces a Catholicism which sits snugly alongside the Mafia in Italy, as they murder their next victim then go to mass confession on Saturday. Absolutely people should follow us, until they too have learned to live in the Way too. Enough of American crap. We here in the UK want the gospel that's in the Bible. The one that stirs up cities and centuries of empty religious mouthings.See more
Saturday at 14:05 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Just had this flash of revelation: If Jesus was driving a car , and you were following him in yours, then it would be fairly logical for me to follow you and we would arrive at the same destination! I wouldn't say don't follow me follow Jesus! Thats what the Christian WAY is - a motor - WAY LoL.
Saturday at 14:37 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Have you listened to my latest musical creation based on Psalm 84 - funny it talks in that Psalm about those who are on a Journey
Saturday at 14:39 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble http://www.envizu.co.uk/media/Psalms/Psalm%2084.mp3
Saturday at 14:39 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch While we were locked in the darkness of our minds...and this as Christians,we experienced a kind of Romans 1, tossing out judgements at each other according to our particular brand of reasoning. Then grace came and nervously at first we sta...rted crawling out of our tight little left-brain boxes and started to see that the gospel Has Us rather than the other way around. That the Way is Extremely obvious, with a Cross right in the centre of it, but with an umpire of peace in our heart, with a LIGHT that we walk and have fellowship in with all other believers, and with a surrounding universe thatSee more
Saturday at 15:01 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch loves righteousness and indeed is increaslingly set free "as the sons of God see more light on what are ALREADY are the riches they have NOW in Christ".It's not something locked up in a box as the exclusive preserve of a super breed of Christian. It's just Jesus taking us wherever we are and asking us,"Seeing you've made a mess of your natural and spiritul lives how abou Me coming in to live in you As you."
Saturday at 15:02 · LikeUnlike.Bonnie Morris Paul said.. "follow me as I follow Christ"
Saturday at 15:08 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Exactly!
Saturday at 15:09 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler Chris. The real gospel is about Christ, and him crucified...but just like in the days after Jesus left, some thought it foolishness. If you want to follow, "The Way", why wouldn't you say to follow the way, who is Christ? Jesus said, "I am ...the way, the truth, and the life." It makes no sense for us to preach any other gospel...unless your way is an occult, you are a Universalist, or because you live in the Uk and people have been imprisoned for offending others with the preaching Christ and the cross. Brother....THE WAY is Christ. "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation."See more
Saturday at 16:49 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Carol, I think you are missing the point if you don't mind me saying so! As you say the way is Christ because no man can come to the Father but by him but the way was the terminology the first disciples used in Acts. It was at Antioch they ...were first called Christians. Chris's original point is that the religious statement don't follow me follow Christ is rubbish and it is! If you are following Jesus and I am following Jesus then we are heading in the same direction! Paul could say follow me as I follow Christ because he was a signpost to Christ and likewise if we are following Jesus we are like lights pointing people to the truth. People should see Christ in you.See more
Saturday at 17:56 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch The worst thing about the American gospel is that it is precisely the halfbuilt tower Jesus warned the whole world against....the one that would invite the world to scoff and laugh at the Precious Name of the One God.(As I've said on my blo...g,Brits don't even have a quarter built tower and believe the gospel of Dawkins)
The BEST thing about the gospel is it WORKS. The American one doesn't, because it invites Jesus into your heart, then you spend the rest of your life as a schizophrenic, half you, half Jesus, trying to subvert Galations 2:20 into some kind of fiction. So what you end up with is follow Jesus, but leave me out of the picture because I'm a hopeless schizophrenic.See more
Saturday at 17:58 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch Ofcourse you are correct about the gospel being about Christ and Him crucified Carol.Let's leave USA out of it and continue with Catholics. Catholics wholeheartedly agree with that sentence Carol,but you know what.....it doesn't do a thing ...for them.We both know the sentence is correct, so then we have to work out by listening to the Spirit, what unspoken shortcircuit is causing continued spiritual death in Catholics. All I'm doing here is a similar process, I'm flagging up what is it in an American's belief system that thinks it's OK to disassociate themselves from someone anyone can follow. And judging by the reaction today, I'd say the Holy Spirit is touching a major shortcircuit.See more
Saturday at 18:35 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch thru DS Lewis Axberg FOR THE CREATION WAITS IN EAGER EXPECTATION FOR THE CHILDREN OF THE LIVING GOD*JESUS CHRIST*TO BE REVEALED* God wants to mature a people and fill them with all the fullness of God.
Then the glory of the Lord will fill th...e whole body of the sons of God in the fullness thus far known only by our glorious Forerunner and Head. His glory shall flow and flow and fill the earth. Then shall be fulfilled the words of the Saviour, "The works that I do shall ye do also, and GREATER WORKS THAN THESE SHALL YE DO."See more
Saturday at 19:06 · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading....Cliff Gableman I'd rather follow the car vs most so called believers
Saturday at 20:57 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler I still don't understand what you are saying...are you saying we become Christ or God?
Saturday at 21:02 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch What's the alternative of eating Christ's flesh? Which bit's you and which bit's Him after the meal,huh?
Saturday at 21:04 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler You know...all he was talikg about was receiving salvation from the shedding of his blood, and feeding on his word. He was the word sent in the flesh. He explained it when he told them his words were Spirit and life. Whoever wants the truth will see it. Some didn't want it...just like today
Yesterday at 00:03 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler So what you are saying is we are literally Christ....or God. Isn't that what satan wanted....to be God. Christ lives in me and i am a child of God but i am not God. I heard a Universalist say if we only knew who we were we would bow down to each other. This way of thinking goes way back. I do not believe we become God or gods. We are his body...but this is not literal.
Yesterday at 01:00 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler About eating his flesh...you still don't get it. Jesus explained he was talking about his word, not his body.
Yesterday at 01:02 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Carol - the Bible says "we are partakers of the divine nature". "We are children of God and it has not appeared as yet what we shall be we know that when he appears we shall be like him" - new birth is more wonderful than just an evangelica...l free ticket to heaven it is an internal transformation - you're born again spirit is identical to his spirit (romans 8 : 11). How the heck do you think the Holy Spirit could reside in us if the vessel wasn't compatible? Yes our soul is not transformed yet - we still sin & our bodies to but our brand new spirit man is exactly like Jesus & cannot sin, it is completely righteous. It is when we realise that we ARE HOLY & RIGHTEOUS not just legally but because now that is our very nature that a process of renewal can begin from the inside out!See more
Yesterday at 08:36 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler I agree...what i wouldn't agree with, is that we become God. We are children of God, born of his Spirit...that doesn't make us God, himself. There is a difference. We are one with him, in that we have his Spirit...but we are not God, himsel...f. I do believe in the grace msg. I do believe, in my spirit i've been made Holy. If you believe you have become God, or that you have become a god, i would have to disagree with you on this. Some eastern religions believe they become god. Some, "Christians" believe that they are, "little gods". Being a child of God makes me a spirit being...not just flesh, but it still doesn't make me God.See more
Yesterday at 08:49 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble PS many believers are trying to be like Christ , trying to be good Etc not realising they ALREADY are like him and as John in his Epistle points out then if they are not then they are not born again!
Yesterday at 08:49 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler BTW...when i lived in Virginia Beach, i met people who belonged to a group called, "The Way". I hope you aren't of this same group. These people ended up on the news, because they were having bible studies and they had been drugging the dri...nks. I was invited, but i didn't go...they were just so off on their beliefs. It just sounds strange how The Way has been brought up, like it's better than the gospel of Jesus Christ. I hope i'm wrong and you all aren't part of this group.See more
Yesterday at 08:54 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble There is a sense that we are gods - in the day that you eat you will be as gods - so even Adam was created in the image of God. Jesus is THE son of God & we are sons. Obviously we are not God he is Father, Son & Holy Spirit & complete in himslef - but as I say even in the natural order man is a little lower than the angels but is obviously far above the animal creation.
Yesterday at 08:55 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler I am not a little god, i am not a god, and i am not the God. I am not Christ.
Yesterday at 08:56 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Carol - no we are not of "the way" that you are describing sounds freeky & I can understand your concern!
Yesterday at 08:56 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler Paul...what you quoted, was a lie from the devil to Eve. In the day that you eat you will be as gods. This was the temptation...the lie, the deception...and she fell for it. This didn't mean we would be gods. Apparently, people are being deceived by the same lie, today, that was used on Adam and Eve.
Yesterday at 08:59 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler The same trap...the same temptation, the same devil, but in a different form...false religion. "you will be as gods" i am glad that you aren't of that group.
Yesterday at 09:01 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Got to go now - going to church where we don't do drugs! look at what Jesus said when he quoted the psalm about being as gods in Johns Gospel
Yesterday at 09:03 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler What he really said is...it is written that i said you are gods, but he didn't say it. Read the whole chapter, in context. NIght Paul...thanks for the talk.
Yesterday at 09:04 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch If we have left brain discussions there are certain subjects that are off limits.The leftbrain cannot handle them. This is why Proverbs 3:5-6 is so vital.
Yesterday at 09:50 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Just reading it now John 11 35 Has it not been written in your law I said you are gods ( quotation from Psalm 82 ). The devil not only deceives by blatant lying - he is also an angel of light and will give you half truths or cause excess ...that will hide a truth. What do you think being a "son of god" really means? The angels were called sons of God but now because of the incarnation, the death & resurrection of Jesus and ascension we actually bare the image of the heavenly 1 cor 15. Religion will always downgrade us to think we are nothing but the fact is I died on a cross 2000 yrs ago in Christ & the life I now live I live by faith in the Son of God!See more
Yesterday at 13:00 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch The sting of any talk about "gods"- whether we are or not,actually comes from the fall.The left-brain is a useful tool for step by step procedures but it really cannot handle this kind of subject. Why? Because even if we are saved,the best you can say of our minds is that they are still in detox. We were drunk on our own "independence".Our minds alienated from the life of God.
Yesterday at 14:39 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch If you are a Christian you notice God doesn't answer a lot of our left-brain questions.You actually see this unroll in real time in the book of Job.And when God doesn't answer , we humans,who are all soaked already with the stench of the de...vils lie that God isn't good, add this as further proof that God doesn't love us. But God loves us so much,it's just that to even communicate with us He has to teach us a new language.We have to learn Spirit. Which for a people that are locked into the material world being the sum total of all existence...this is really foreign. He says "Enter into my courts with praise and thanksgiving" We look absolutely nonplussed.cont.....See more
Yesterday at 14:40 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch How is that relevant? But it turns out it is the quickest way of making us aware of the new language of Spirit.The experience of baptism in the Holy Spirit is part of our repentance,our turning around.Meta Noia means either beyond nous, mov...ing beyond the darkened confines of what we see,hear,touch,taste...to believing every Word that we hear God speak. Or meta means joining alongside the mind of God...but both meanings mean that our mind never stays the same.See more
Yesterday at 14:41 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch So , saturated with the devil's lie that we can be independent gods in our own right....even after becoming Christians, any talk of us being joined to God still passes through our Marvel Comic , or Greek god, idea of what this may mean. So,... really our leftbrain doesn't know where to start on the subject. So the quickest thing is that God gets us moving in the Spirit. Which is why Paul was firm in his instructions in how we run churches and meetings. Every denomination and virtually every new church completely ignores the Word of God on this, and runs churches with CEO pastors who pull all the strings. But inthe beginning it was not so. The truth of WHO WE ARE is in John 15 , we are branches in God's vine. But God's life is both vine trunk and branch. He has caught us up in Himself again at the Cross....it's just that Christians are still catching up.See more
Yesterday at 14:50 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble I see what your driving at Chris - in fact natural human beings are all behaving like little gods, independent wills resisting the will of the almighty - selfishly only concerned with their own little worlds. Jesus came to serve others and lay down his life. He emptied himself.
Yesterday at 15:06 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch The other description by Jacob Boehme from 400 years ago is the Life of God has a Cross in it.Jesus was the Lamb slain before the world was created.To be caught up into God's Life is to be caught up into a life of "going to hell for others" or Hebrews 13:13. It's stamped right through His Life like letters in a stick of rock.
Yesterday at 15:11 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch When we're still young in God we spend our exertions like Peter with Jesus, and Agabus with St Paul, saying Jesus Life is prosperity and blessing, you don't need to go up to Jerusalem!!!! But 3rd levellers spend their life going up to Jerusalem! It's in their bloodstream.
Yesterday at 15:14 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler Paul...John 11:25, notice he said it had been written in THEIR law. This was man's law, not God's law. Jesus was just using this to show if they believed man's law concerning men being gods, then why couldn't they believe he was God.
Yesterday at 16:06 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler Levelers, and the left brain? I think i will bow out of this conversation now...it is just too wierd. But i will be praying for you...that you will open your eyes to the truth. I think you are following some strange teachings. Get into the ...bible and ask God to give you understanding. If you follow man instead of God...you will never know the truth that can set you free. The bible says, "Do not let satan beguile you of the simplicity of Christ." It is a simple, straight forward gospel. Our brains cannot keep us from the truth...be it right side, or left side. I am concerned for you. I will be praying...See more
Yesterday at 16:16 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch I could have said mind, if it was offputting...but from brain scans this seems to be so...it is just a celebration of how much recent science backs up the reality that the Bible's books always stated. We are NOT this little portion of mind ...that tries to get everything figured....nor is spirit confined to a brainbox either. Our lives are now hidden with Christ in God. Sorry this is all scaring you.That doesn't mean it isn't true.See more
23 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch As for levelers,even my close friends don't use that....the Bible in 1 John 2 uses the lingo children,young men,Fathers.All a 3rd leveller is ,is like all the authors that line all the Christian bookshops in all the world,a mature ministry ...in God. Unlike local ministries that we are acquainted with, people like Bonhoeffer,Madame Guyon,Watchman Nee,Mother Teresa,Richard Wurmbrand,Spurgeon,Wesley....have been chosen repeatedly throughout the Earth as having a mature voice in God.If what they say is not simple enough for you then rest assured they believe a simple gospel....but they have worked with this simplicity way beyond the American bumoper sticker, to where it is safe to follow the Way they travelled along in God.See more
23 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Carol - sorry thats not what it says in - Psalm 82:6 "i said you are gods you are all sons of the most high" - where Jesus is quoting from! No he was saying that why did they find it so hard to believe that Jesus was THE incarnate son of God when even in the natural they were created in the image of God.
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler I wasn't talking about the one in Psalms Paul...Chris, is, "The Way" an organization? And i still don't get the leveler thing.
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble The devil tempted the Eve by saying in the day you eat your eyes will be opened and you will be LIKE GOD. This was a lie because she was ALREADY like God. The devil hates it because he wanted to be like God. He can't create only destroy. Ma...n is created in the image and even though fallen and marred by sin you can see the beauty in what he creates. Jesus was tempted by satan at the core of his identity by the temptation IF you are the son of God. Jesus didn't need to prove anything!See more
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Yes but Carol that is what Jesus is quoting in John 11:25!!!
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler There is a difference in Jesus and us...he is God. We are not. We are thankful to be the children of God.
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble And the Way - have a look in the Acts the early disciples were called followers of the way. It was at Antioch that they were first called christians!
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler ‎(KJV)John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler Why did you bring up John 11:25?
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler Paul, let's go back to what Chris posted...why did he say don't follow me follow Christ, is crap, but The Way is the safe way and it is what the real gospel is about? This does not line up with the gospel of Jesus Christ. Following Christ is a good thing. Jesus said he was the way, how can you seperate?
20 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Yes I agree we are not God but we are LIKE God because we are his children & sons - just like our own children are in our image. Adam was like God because he was created in God's image but if we are born again it is even more so because we ...have taken on the image of the heavenly man we are not only in Christ but Christ is in us- the hope of glory! In Peter its says - we are partakers of the divine nature - new birth is in some way like the incarnation - we are born from above. We don't really understand the mystery of it but I'm being perdantic because its clearly what the scriptures teach and anything less lowers what God has done through Jesus!See more
20 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Carol - yes its got a bit far off the point! I know Chris personally so I can vouch for you he's not trying to lead you astray ( a bit difficult to understand) but thats what Peter said about the Apostle Paul! Of course there is nothing wro...ng with following Christ but I think he's taking issue with nice trite statements that are not the truth - really maybe its just a car bumper sticker! I can understand you getting a bit upset about the Way stuff as far as I know Chris isn't in any heretical sect called the Way but as I said before it is a term used by the early disciples so its not a bad term to use.See more
20 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Oops sorry I meant John 10:34!
20 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler I think it may be how he put it...it looks like the bumper sticker upset him. I just don't understand why. I don't think anything should be so deep that someone can't explain it in simple terminology. I think i asked a legitimate question. Paul, you told me about the disviples...but Chris hasn't explained, "The Way" yet. I don't like arguing...just wanted to know why The Way is safer, and what, exactly, it is. :)
20 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch One of the meanings of the bumper sticker (which in the context of driving,was always meant light heartedly...but 20 years later is wearing thin, especially in view of the Christianity that is exported from the USA on TV and here on Faceboo...k)is the disconnect between asking Jesus the way,and a Christian's responsibility to become the answer to the question. Commonly the States version of Christianity is ,ask Jesus into your heart,get your sins forgiven,join a church and try your best to live a good Christian life. The real gospel, and in fact the meaning behind the story of every single saint in BOTH Old and New Testaments is that we follow Jesus into His Way for us.See more
19 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble But 1161 this 5124 I confess 3670 unto thee 4671, that 3754 after 2596 the way 3598 which 3739 they call 3004 heresy 139, so 3779 worship I 3000 the God 2316 of my fathers 3971, believing 4100 all things 3956 which 3588 are written 1125 in 2596 the law 3551 and 2532 in 1722 the prophets 4396:
19 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch This Way is unique for all of us, but is tailormade to lead us to the Truth? What truth? That every mouth be stopped! That neither we nor any other human is capable of living the Christian life even once saved.This awful truth brings us to ...the kind of Truthfulness and desperation before God that this time we really mean business....at which point we learn it has to be Christ actually living our life as us. Not 2 peas in a pod, sharing the limelight.....but as Paul has shared,the reality of Chris and Paul crucified 2000 years ago, and now NOT I, but Christ actually living our lives.....yes through our souls,through our bodies....but Christ so fused with my spirit, that there is no join. "As He is, so ARE we in the world"See more
19 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch I meant to spell out that this is the deeper meaning to I am the Way the Truth and the Life.It is much more dynamic and 3dimensional than the States version, which only really gets people to salvation and pewsitting
19 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Load of references to the way in Acts more than I bargained for in fact!
17 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch It really was the word for Christianity. The other thing that's good is it implies movement and not doctrine.Other saints reduce it all to THE WAY that is Love. Everything else is self for self....some kind of agenda going on.
7 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Yes thats an interesting thought Chris that the way suggests movement. The christian walk is a journey of faith. I wonder why the early believers were first called christians at Antioch?
5 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch It was probably the gobsmacking shock that here were the world's first people who had somehow missed a stage....(They weren't Jews,hadn't had thousands of years of pre-conditioning culturally) and here they were ex-Pagan thieves,homosexuals,liars,rapists,beaming out Christ in everything they said and did. You must admit,if this was the first time in history....it would be gobsmacking!
4 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch Oh...and not one of them had a donkeycart sticker with don't follow me, follow Christ...because their radiance and love showed they followed Christ, so others even created a nickname: Christian