Showing posts with label Giving. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Giving. Show all posts
Saturday, 24 August 2024
Wednesday, 28 December 2016
Another Principle of Giving. Being targeted in our approach - Eric Rukin
Eric's Facebook note·Friend,
A lot of attention on social media has rightly been raised about Christians giving our money for the right reason...to the "why" of Christian giving.
The grace portion of our bibles teach true giving is only done when it is voluntary, cheerful, spontaneous and from love, rather than out of obligation, fear of punishment or hope of reward.
Yet almost strangely, little to no attention has been given to the "what" our money goes toward.
Perhaps we have we been trained not to ask "to what" the money we choose to give goes toward?
Let's think about it.
Love responds to needs.
And love also has the right to decline when it doesn't grasp the importance of a need or deems he/she does not want to meet the need, for whatever reason.
When it comes to giving money, God gave us an ability to respond in love, as long as tangible and specific needs are presented to us.
Yet, where giving money is encouraged without knowing what our money is going toward, we are giving blindly.
And blind giving is always a recipe for manipulation and fear-based giving to occur.
Search the grace portion of your Bible and you will not find an instance where a single shekel was given to a yet unidentified, "to be determined" need.
Go further and search the grace portion of your Bible and you will not find an instance where ritual giving is encouraged and money is stockpiled for a yet to be determined need.
Go further and you will not find a single instance where a child of God was made to feel bad because, for whatever reason, he chose not to give.
Whether it be time, money or things, God designed that our "giving" must be a response to a known need and our giving must be done willingly.
If giving is not done willingly, it won't be giving for the right reason.
Yet, so many churches and ministries today ask you and I to give our money regularly out of "devotion to the Lord" while failing to identify any specific need our hard earned dollars are going toward.
And they fail to allow us to decline.
This is blind giving and God discourages it because it is the vehicle of fear...and the enemy of love.
Ritual giving robs us of the joy and spontaneity God intended for us in creating us to be responders.
Because God made us responders, wherever needs remain unidentified, it is truly impossible to give money cheerfully and motivated from real love.
As long as the "what" is unidentified, giving for the right "why" remains impossible.
As long as ritual giving is encouraged without identifying what need or needs our money is going toward, and without a clear choice to decline, we can't give spontaneously and lovingly as God intends.
As long as we are unable to say, "I'll pass this time" and do so repeatedly without being viewed by others as less than Christian, it is fear based giving, not love based.
Let's get back to grace in regard to giving our time, our things...and our money.
Saturday, 23 November 2013
Giving to the New Faceless
Galations 6 :10 Young's Literal Translation
therefore, then, as we have opportunity, may we work the good to all, and especially unto those of the household of the faith.
We can be aware of poverty if we look both here and abroad. But I am not talking about the subject of "giving to the poor"here.
I am not talking about ministries in denominations or existing new independent churches, both of which preach tithing in with their Christianity as if it was still in the New Covenant.
I am not speaking about the Indian tradition of gurus going around the countryside preaching, teaching, or working alongside others while they share. It is an understood thing in Indian faiths just as it is in the Christian faith that you are to offer hospitality. The Christian faith IS OFCOURSE a middle Eastern Abrahamic faith not a western secular one.
I am not talking about registered charities with support for their workers.
In the main I am not talking about registered situations at all.
In the last decades the new churches have generally gone along with the line that we are "not to support lone flash Harrys" setting up in any old ministry, which could mean largely loafing around.
The problem we had then was that yes, many would set things up in the name of such and such an apostolic network and plenty of such ministries and charity operations exist all across the world now...
BUT IN SUBMITTING TO LARGELY HUMAN SYSTEMS hardly anybody has grown to what the Bible in 1 John 2 describes as the third level.
These "ministries and charities" don't bring revival, because there is little actual anointing left. It's all been shortcircuited out by trusting in the steeds of Egypt rather than in God alone.
NOPE, I AM TALKING ABOUT A NEW BREED THAT YOU CAN'T READILY SEE AND SHOULD LOOK OUT FOR.BECAUSE THEY ARE HERE NOW.......
They are called by God direct. They are called to rely on Him alone for all their needs in the same way that George Mueller pioneered when he believed in the modern equivalent of billions of pounds by faith to support thousands of children in orphanages.
George Mueller quotes.
mp3s of Mueller's testimonies
The HOLY SPIRIT will not always allow these folk to ASK FOR MONEY, HINT AT IT, RAISE MONEY FOR PROJECTS....because these are God projects that He is not allowing them to talk about.
Others are allowed to talk, but all you will hear is one lone voice because He has expressly disallowed the setting up of a system or organisation so that they trust HIM ALONE.
Will we believe in this HOUSE NOT MADE WITH HANDS or not?
Will we be content to run "as priests in the Order of Melchizedek" or won't we?
Will we be content to BUILD by speaking the Word and only the Word...or do we have to see outer buildings or physical legacies? The LEGACY of the gospel is SELF REPRODUCING SEED. Christ reproducing Christ.
WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU GIVE?
Worship is giving.
Worship is allowing Jesus Christ to live our life as us.
He is a self-giving life.
As soon as He is living His life through you in some shape of form He is GIVING.
Christ supports His own building...which is Him in others.
Someone once said there is money in the ANOINTING.
Anybody ever think that Jesus went through the same thing? He gave His earthly physical Body to the father as an intercessory sacrifice, as the Lamb....but three days later He wasn't raised up with the same body...He had a new Body which had so much spiritual substance crammed into it , when He walked into a wall in our current physical creation constructed mostly of holes and space between atoms...they buckled around Him and He just simply walked through. So yes His own Body was received back stuffed down , squashed together in density, and running over!!!
Here are some of the new Breed :
Rich Novek,USA, currently giving away his books Rich in Christ.
Elaine Waterfield known locally as Nya Suna
Kenya : the Lord visited my house tonight as we had prayer and praise amen and a drunkard and witch doctor came in and we led them to the Lord amen wow it was awesome and the KING of KINGS came to visit I love you Lord and I lift my voice to worship you oh my soul rejoice (testimony this week)
Stuart Whitby evangelist UK after working with his hands for many years, feeling that the Holy Spirit has called time on work for money, and as an evangelist is pioneering new coffee house churches in the cities of England.
He is going through the awful thing the disciples experienced, where the Holy Spirit would not allow them to take anything on their first ministry trip....but people then accuse you falsely of not taking work when it is offered, or of being inadequately covered financially. How are we going to learn supply if we don't allow people the freedom to
experience supernatural supply.
Here is Stuart's poem about it, he writes:
i wrote this poem when feeling down a while ago but like many of davids psalms he starts of with his complaint, needs or failings but by the end of the psalm he has seen the majesty and sovereignty of God.........amen
Apart from him!!!
Ive given flowers which became thorns,
all i've try to fix is once again torn,
for my joy has only made others mourn.
all i've try to fix is once again torn,
for my joy has only made others mourn.
what i hold softly soon becomes broke,
my gentle squeeze a deadly choke,
my warm fire causing nothing but smoke.
my gentle squeeze a deadly choke,
my warm fire causing nothing but smoke.
failing to catch, far down it fell
i spoke a whisper they heard a yell
apart from Christ i can do nothing well
but when the spirits wind prevails
it opens wide and blows my sails
for what the spirit unctions never fails
i spoke a whisper they heard a yell
apart from Christ i can do nothing well
but when the spirits wind prevails
it opens wide and blows my sails
for what the spirit unctions never fails
then my words to others become life
within my mind there is no strife
im sailing in the peace of christ
once again reminded its all his way
im content to be his jar of clay
whom performs his purpose in me each day
within my mind there is no strife
im sailing in the peace of christ
once again reminded its all his way
im content to be his jar of clay
whom performs his purpose in me each day
Pete Cabrera
Christian Supplies Trust
registered UK charity:1028509
If people want to send money to the people direct please contact them through Facebook or if they are not on Facebook , like Stuart Whitby, please ask me for his email. If you are having trouble sending money you can use Paypal via Christian Supplies using 07000intune@googlemail.com. We have recently lifted the restrictions that Paypal place on charity accounts that are new to Paypal. The Trust itself has served many pioneering Christian and fledgling charities all over the world since 1993.Finally a reminder of what these Faceless are in it for, although the video is of Reading Pennsylvania.
Saturday, 5 October 2013
Wednesday, 22 May 2013
John Stevens on Tithing
Hi Chris,
Tithing.
Tithing caused me to explore the bible and receive an unexpected
electrocution of truth. I'm certainly not claiming to have understood
everything but a shock is a shock and at least I can write about that.
I'd read Run Baby Run, The Cross and the Switchblade, When the Spirit Comes and a few other books prior to conversion to Christ in 1976.
I
seem to remember one of the characters that David Wilkerson wrote about
was a man in a New York who used to preach everyday even if no-one
was listening, and 'tithe' 90% of his income and live on the 10%.
I'd read Run Baby Run, The Cross and the Switchblade, When the Spirit Comes and a few other books prior to conversion to Christ in 1976.
I
don't know if, strictly speaking, that was my introductiion to the word
tithing or not; I suspect not as 'tithe barns' were part of my
vocabulary and somewhere in learning about the history of the feudal
system I'm sure I heard something about tithes as the precursor to
taxation.
Roll on a few years and after years of giving 10% from my University grant and early teaching salary and I'm leading a homegroup that has collectively been baptised in the Spirit afresh during the Wimber visits to the UK. For some reason I decide that we should look at tithing as it had been a blessing to me...at the heart of the desire to share about tithing I think was the conviction that I felt it was spiritually healthy to be generous rather than be afraid of financial giving and thought it would be good for the group.
Two things followed on in quick succession. The first was the electrocution. The second was the ruin of my tithing experiment.
Before looking at the OT references to tithing I had a very simple model of what the bible teaches about tithing; that it should be the first tenth of all you have i.e. gross salary. To keep things simple that also had the corrollary that all of the 10% found its way by standing order to the church. I was glad to do this; it wasn't a burden.
Then, to my amazement, we discovered that the first type of biblical tithing was 10% to be used to purchase food and drink whilst on pilgrimage to the Jerusalem feasts so that everyone would be joyful. The second tithe was more like our tax system to be given to the Levites and priests for their sustenance but also so that the Levites could run what we would call the National Health Service and Social Services, not at the temple but amongst the people and their houses - interesting that our present government is trying to combine these two services as I write this! There might be another tithe but I can't remember what it is.
For the Jews who came to Christ, of course, they would have been required as citizens of Israel, albeit under Roman occupation, to pay the tithes as well as taxation to Rome...and then any giving that is mentioned in the NT would have been over and above that.
The often quoted passage in Malachi isn't so spiritual if one sees 'spiritual' as invisible and having no connection to the material. 'Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse' is just the same as the current outcry against multinationals and the powerful elite who rob the nation through tax-dodging. If the nation had stooped to the degree that the tax flow had diminished the whole temple and health/social service system would collapse. Money is best seen as a fluid, it's only useful when it's on the move, at that time from everyone to the priests and Levites ministering to God in order for the blessings of heaven to reach the poorest of the land.
What about now? It's simple. We should pay our taxes and speak up about what that money should be used for. Those on the right might favour lowering taxes to dismantle an ever more powerful state machinery, those on the left may want to increase taxes to increase the flow to the poor. Both voices have their place. Speak up! But giving - that's different. That's not restricted to money that's everything.
It really is a Spirit/spirit thing as is everything. It really is a question of learning to live in step with the Spirit.
The life of the Spirit is not restricted by our analytical versions of fairness and justice. Peter and John almost walk past the beggar by the beautiful gate. Jesus wasn't going to stop when he was walking past the disciples boat. Jesus singled out the lame man in the portico and Lazarus in the tree. Sometimes someone catches our attention of our spirit, sometimes we know we have to go to someone as the Spirit impels.
There's nothing wrong in committing yourself to give 10% of your gross salary to your local church if that's what you want to do but you are not coerced by any scripture to do so. You will be sowing, almost definitely, into the priorities of the leaders of your church and you and what you reap may inform everyone about the wisdom of the original commitments.
Roll on a few years and after years of giving 10% from my University grant and early teaching salary and I'm leading a homegroup that has collectively been baptised in the Spirit afresh during the Wimber visits to the UK. For some reason I decide that we should look at tithing as it had been a blessing to me...at the heart of the desire to share about tithing I think was the conviction that I felt it was spiritually healthy to be generous rather than be afraid of financial giving and thought it would be good for the group.
Two things followed on in quick succession. The first was the electrocution. The second was the ruin of my tithing experiment.
Before looking at the OT references to tithing I had a very simple model of what the bible teaches about tithing; that it should be the first tenth of all you have i.e. gross salary. To keep things simple that also had the corrollary that all of the 10% found its way by standing order to the church. I was glad to do this; it wasn't a burden.
Then, to my amazement, we discovered that the first type of biblical tithing was 10% to be used to purchase food and drink whilst on pilgrimage to the Jerusalem feasts so that everyone would be joyful. The second tithe was more like our tax system to be given to the Levites and priests for their sustenance but also so that the Levites could run what we would call the National Health Service and Social Services, not at the temple but amongst the people and their houses - interesting that our present government is trying to combine these two services as I write this! There might be another tithe but I can't remember what it is.
For the Jews who came to Christ, of course, they would have been required as citizens of Israel, albeit under Roman occupation, to pay the tithes as well as taxation to Rome...and then any giving that is mentioned in the NT would have been over and above that.
The often quoted passage in Malachi isn't so spiritual if one sees 'spiritual' as invisible and having no connection to the material. 'Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse' is just the same as the current outcry against multinationals and the powerful elite who rob the nation through tax-dodging. If the nation had stooped to the degree that the tax flow had diminished the whole temple and health/social service system would collapse. Money is best seen as a fluid, it's only useful when it's on the move, at that time from everyone to the priests and Levites ministering to God in order for the blessings of heaven to reach the poorest of the land.
What about now? It's simple. We should pay our taxes and speak up about what that money should be used for. Those on the right might favour lowering taxes to dismantle an ever more powerful state machinery, those on the left may want to increase taxes to increase the flow to the poor. Both voices have their place. Speak up! But giving - that's different. That's not restricted to money that's everything.
It really is a Spirit/spirit thing as is everything. It really is a question of learning to live in step with the Spirit.
The life of the Spirit is not restricted by our analytical versions of fairness and justice. Peter and John almost walk past the beggar by the beautiful gate. Jesus wasn't going to stop when he was walking past the disciples boat. Jesus singled out the lame man in the portico and Lazarus in the tree. Sometimes someone catches our attention of our spirit, sometimes we know we have to go to someone as the Spirit impels.
There's nothing wrong in committing yourself to give 10% of your gross salary to your local church if that's what you want to do but you are not coerced by any scripture to do so. You will be sowing, almost definitely, into the priorities of the leaders of your church and you and what you reap may inform everyone about the wisdom of the original commitments.
(I'm currently reviewing along with some others in my church the wisdom of our current support for microfinance for example)
I love Paul's statement:
I love Paul's statement:
And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.
We
are all caught up in this. As was Jesus. He gave everything and as He
gave more so he, like Paul, knew the truth of 'the less I be loved'.
There's
something very deliberate and very lovely and joyful about putting
seeds into the ground. It's my next job down at my allotment. I'm
looking forward in particular to sowing some sweetcorn seeds. Yes the
seeds will die, they will be spent, but I know that just a few months
later something possible taller than I am will stand there in glory!
Well, hopefully glorious sunshine anyway and I'll feast on the many
hundreds of seeds that one seed has managed to reproduce.
That
was the big shock discovering that the biblical tithing has very little
to do with the '10% to your local church' equivalance of the OT tithe.
Following
on from that study I went through a period of real financial hardship
where I wanted to tithe, i.e. give 10% to my church, but in order to
continue to tithe I was borrowing money from a family source. It took
awhile for the madness of this to register. But you see how gracious God
was; the truth had set me free although it took me a while to cotton
on. I stopped borrowing and gave less to the church until I was able to
give a little more without taking handouts from the family! Some things
need to be demolished!
My
practice now? I'm not sure what % I give to my church. I'm happy to do
this, but mentally I see the taxes I pay as having more relation to the
OT priestly tithe, and I'm free to give to myself and friends and family
in the spirit of the first tithe i.e. to buy food and drink and have
some holy joy. But it doesn't stop there.
'Freely you have received freely give'.
The universe's big secret? It's all run by grace. I'm still being trained up in the ways of grace.
Well
Chris, I've been following your various bombardments and artllery
rounds on tithing and thought maybe it's time I joined in and shared a
few journeying thoughts.
I've
avoided getting involved in all the teaching side of the argument about
Abraham paying tithes to Melchizedec...maybe another time!
John
Wednesday, 1 August 2012
Donate Now to the Kilimanjaro Climb
But first, A Third Level Vision for Giving....Chris Welch
In former times missionary giving was always couched in terms like this:
See what the Saviour has come and given us, leaving His glory behind and enduring humiliation even unto a Cross, so should we also give Him all we have.
And much good has come of this, except it isn't third level. It may be how just about every church runs on earth, especially instructing people that salvation comes through Jesus PLUS tithing, and then you will be saved. But this is NOT salvation and it is not third level giving.
So I'll say what third level giving is after quoting these verses.
Psalm110 The affirmation of Jehovah to my Lord: `Sit at My right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.'
This is the true vision of the Church. And the true vision out of which everything proceeds. We have a Risen Head. A Man in heaven. He is not now even a third level Man, a Father level person on earth, as described in 1 John 2 :12 ff, no, this Man is in His fourth stage, prefigured on the Mount of Transfiguration. This is FULLY GLORIFIED, FULLY RISEN MAN exercising Co-Dominion with the Father, and He is the firstborn of ALL CREATION, and ALL NEW CREATION, the first of an innumerable amount of brethren, THE FIRST FRUITS.....from the womb.....from the morning.
What womb?
What morning?
The womb of the sufferings of the Cross.
The Easter morning which is the same day when one single sheaf is waved as first fruits on the first day of the week at Passover.
What gospel missionaries only partially explained in previous times was the victory of Christ and exhorted us to be "like Him", completely missing the point of the Cross.
Were it just to forgive sins, all well and good, but it isn't just to forgive sins.
There were TWO GOATS that were sacrificed to describe this.
One goat was offered for sin and was totally burned up.
A second goat was sent as a scapegoat out from the midst of Israel into the wastes of the wilderness.
Jesus NOT ONLY took all our sins, He bore us away too. He took our essential Adamic spirit identities right down to where they naturally gravitated,hell, and left the Adamic spirit of death right there, then
bound up with Him , He redeemed our spirits that were lost and bound in Darkness, and caught them up in Himself in a New Creation Man.
Our lives are "hidden" Greek...interwoven , interleaved with Christ in GOD.
OUR "I AM's" , our spirits, are hidden with Christ in God. Done deal.
It's just hardly anybody knows......even Christians too.
So this is the source of confusion about giving.
Thy people [are] free-will gifts in the day of Thy strength, in the honours of holiness, From the womb, from the morning,
We do not give gifts really. We do not tithe, that is, the Old Covenant behaviour of tithing
WE ARE the freewill gifts.
And out from our identity as the freewill gifts, comes everything we do as Christians. A part of which is giving.
Oh, Chris, the pastors say, that is idealistic. If I trusted and relied on people getting this revelation of giving then I'd be out of a church and I'd have to get a job.
To which I reply...."And the problem is....?
Just about all of us on Facebook work. All our activities of blogging , using Twitter or Facebook are voluntary.
What I believe is this. We are the household of faith. As the Other-Love, Giving of Self to Others, Revelation of Christ's Giving Person, Our new identity in Him, busts out of our new created spirits and takes over more and more of our souls.....so we LIVE full time in this revelation
We are GOING to HAVE no trouble at all in supporting people with Word to share full-time, as they did in Acts, and as they supported Jesus in the gospels. Freewill offerings.
Meanwhile....
although 1980s charismatics don't yet understand the thirdlevel foundation of our giving, they have been learning some precious spiritual principles.
People who live and move in the Melchizedek Order, listening to and seeing what the Master is doing (Psalm 123) and put themselves out on a limb by faith, these are "the sons of God". Those who are led by the Spirit, these are sons of God.Romans 8:14 This is the new priesthood who serve day and night in the house of God. "We are a holy nation,a royal priesthood" 1 Peter 2:9
The Household of faith
Galations 6:10 Interlinear - "so then as occasion we have we should work good toward all but especially toward those of the household - of the- of faith"
It is the household of faith who we give to PRIMARILY. There is a Melchizedek blessing, a special blessing of God for those who give to the household of faith.
Tithing may have worked in the approximate settings of the Nation of Israel, but "a Greater has now come" who now serves in the Heavenly Sanctuary. Ministers who still live from tithes are living in the Old Covenant. They are NOT really the household of faith. Telling people that they must give tithes, then living from this collection of tenths of income.....well....you may as well be a salaried employee of Inland Revenue, because that is all you are doing.
People like Jackie Pullinger To when she started out in Hong Kong, and Elaine Waterfield are putting their lives on the line. It is a different order of giving. It is giving yourself lock stock and barrel to the Lord for your existence.
But as Jessie Duplantis said when talking on this subject. There are people you give to and the blessing does not rebound in the same way. You try it with Elaine Waterfield and Rich Novek, who has just launched himself out in this wayof faith. There is an anointing upon God's work done in God's way.
George Mueller proved to us as a forerunner of our current move, that you don't even have to tell people. In reality there IS NO LAW how we do things. For each it is up to the Holy Spirit to indicate. People can only give according to their standard of measure.
The standard of measure
This is way too weird for those who think their entire brain consists of their articulate reasoning. What about the way music hits you then? Articulate that to me? Sure we can give brief descriptions, but neither music nor the Presence of the Lord can be articulated that well, because that bit of our vessel that articulates wasn't made for picking up things like faith, dreams,"the single eye" that Jesus talks about....all this is understood by spirit and uses different parts of our being.
So the standard of measure is very related to how big our vision of God is. It is related also to what part of the Heavenly Tabernacle we most relate to...to the extent also we have entered into the River of God in experience. If we are just dipping our toes in, we won't have the faith to give that much yet, for we haven't proved God enough in our whole lives. And God knows and understands, and like a kindly Father is just anxious to get us to experiment more.
Experiencing the Seed
The more third level seed we experience. This is the Word of Christ "dwelling in us richly", either in us direct or as spoken to us by a thirdleveller/father ministry, the more our standard of measure changes on our insides.
This is what I wrote on my Facebook status this morning. It is what I woke up with.
In the third level it is Christ's seed,it is Christ Himself speaking through someone. Up until then there are spiritual gifts and people talking ABOUT Christ. What do you think Gideon's smashing of the pots was about? An olympic light festival? The Enemy did a runner. The Enemy is fine with waffle ABOUT Christ but CHRIST HIMSELF "I'm outta here!!"
The issue has always been a Third Level One : Has God Come In the Flesh? Peter said "Yes" and on that foundation the Church in the Earth first manifested.
The Heavenly Tabernacle described in Hebrews still stands. The Brazen Altar and the Laver Mirror is where you receive Christ's Seed of Life from above. The shewbread teaching about Christ and the Holy Spirit (gift) Candlesticks point to an existence of God coming in the flesh,but the Third Level LIVES it. This is an acacia box covered in gold within and without...our human boxes having a consciousness of Christ
The gospel that we share is simply Christ in us the hope of glory. All our giving is voluntary as the Holy Spirit indicates, and comes out of this essential freewill offering of Christ which included OUR DEATH and RESURRECTION IN HIM.
Give and It shall be given Unto you
What do you do as we career along in this life of the Spirit, and He dares to lead in new ways which we can't directly find spelled out in the Bible? Do you shut it off? Or do you adopt new practices as they seem to flow in the Holy Spirit?
Like women preaching and teaching.
Like Oral Roberts and Seed faith
Like Fire Tunnels which I experienced again in Lee On Solent this week.
Seed faith says that as we reach out to God for something that is totally beyond us, we give to the Lord but specifically "name" that seed. What is a seed gift but some money or possession that represents a certain amount of "man hours' labour" to earn? Or in Abrahamic terms,one of his "gifts" was his very own Child of Promise son, Isaac. Either way God honours us reaching out with any faith whatsoever. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Imagine one side of God allowed to run forever and ever on a tape loop? And what you get is the Illuminati,the council of 300,the Bankers, the Elite who want everything their way and are planning to destroy ninetenths of the Earth so that all the resources remain theirs with a manageable serfdom administrating it all....the survivors under them.
Cherry Silcox on Facebook
Everyone!!! look at Elaine Waterfields' profile!!! This is a WOMAN on her OWN doing the WORK of THE LORD in DARKEST AFRICA!!!! she needs YOUR help so she can help the desperate people she ministers to!!
Elaine and George both did the climb up Kilimanjaro. You cannot just go up to the top without paying an enormous sum of money , which is hard enough for first world people, but absolutely impossible for most Kenyans and missionaries there. So they climbed halfway up.
Elaine is really real. She doesn't pretend. She is driven onward by her inward drive, and by reaching out to God in faith.(Think Jackie Pullinger) But from one day to the next her feelings about it all may go right up and down.
Yet she feels called by God to serve here, share her faith, and encourage others in a poor part of Kenya towards new ways of life, and ofcourse faith in God.
Facebook statuses
"WHEN I SEE ALL THAT gOD HAS DONE HERE ITS AWESOME THE FOOTBALL TOURNEMENT THE BUILDING THE LIVES SAVED IN LESS THAN SIX MONTHS ITS GREAT TO BE APART OF IT. BUT THE STRUGGLES IS THE NEED THE TERRIBLE NEED AND VMONEY BECOMES SO MUCH APART OF IT AND I HATE MONEY I HATE IT. I ALSO HATE THE BEING SICK UNCERTAINTY AND LANGUAGE BARRIERS AND LONLINESS BUT THATS WHAT IS TAKING UP JESUS CROSS I ALSO HATE BEING IN DEBT BUT GOS KNOWS AND HE IS THE ATHOUR AND FINISHER OF MY FAITH"
"when people in western world see people asking in third world for money they see with western world eyes with their wealth and how they liue but here in remote kenya they have nothing and poverty is extreme so whenwe say we need money we need money for medical education electricity and bed 4 wards rehab oqphanage etc its ouerwhelming but if we got some backers it would change a community especially as god is changing lives andwe empower them 2 help themselves i pray god will help us"
"laineeloo is so fed up being on her own single and uery lonely and prays that god will send along a mate whose fun loving and will join her as a mirsionary on her trauels"
"today another drinker nelson elderly man christopher and solomon came 2 the lord and we praise god for salvation so please pray 4 them we so need money 4 a rehab i pray joey and noel and trev will come here we so need donors 2 help the work here love laineeloo"
I refuse to let this discourage me, because I know deep within me Christ taking root in our being means that we become generous, and that to expect that in one weekend is silly, but I thought I'd just give feedback as to how this post has been received compared to all the other posts here.
In former times missionary giving was always couched in terms like this:
See what the Saviour has come and given us, leaving His glory behind and enduring humiliation even unto a Cross, so should we also give Him all we have.
And much good has come of this, except it isn't third level. It may be how just about every church runs on earth, especially instructing people that salvation comes through Jesus PLUS tithing, and then you will be saved. But this is NOT salvation and it is not third level giving.
So I'll say what third level giving is after quoting these verses.
Psalm110 The affirmation of Jehovah to my Lord: `Sit at My right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.'
2 The rod of thy strength doth Jehovah send from Zion, Rule in the midst of thine enemies.
3 Thy people [are] free-will gifts in the day of Thy strength, in the honours of holiness, From the womb, from the morning, Thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4 Jehovah hath sworn, and doth not repent, `Thou [art] a priest to the age, According to the order of Melchizedek.'Youngs Literal
This is the true vision of the Church. And the true vision out of which everything proceeds. We have a Risen Head. A Man in heaven. He is not now even a third level Man, a Father level person on earth, as described in 1 John 2 :12 ff, no, this Man is in His fourth stage, prefigured on the Mount of Transfiguration. This is FULLY GLORIFIED, FULLY RISEN MAN exercising Co-Dominion with the Father, and He is the firstborn of ALL CREATION, and ALL NEW CREATION, the first of an innumerable amount of brethren, THE FIRST FRUITS.....from the womb.....from the morning.
What womb?
What morning?
The womb of the sufferings of the Cross.
The Easter morning which is the same day when one single sheaf is waved as first fruits on the first day of the week at Passover.
What gospel missionaries only partially explained in previous times was the victory of Christ and exhorted us to be "like Him", completely missing the point of the Cross.
Were it just to forgive sins, all well and good, but it isn't just to forgive sins.
There were TWO GOATS that were sacrificed to describe this.
One goat was offered for sin and was totally burned up.
A second goat was sent as a scapegoat out from the midst of Israel into the wastes of the wilderness.
Jesus NOT ONLY took all our sins, He bore us away too. He took our essential Adamic spirit identities right down to where they naturally gravitated,hell, and left the Adamic spirit of death right there, then
bound up with Him , He redeemed our spirits that were lost and bound in Darkness, and caught them up in Himself in a New Creation Man.
Our lives are "hidden" Greek...interwoven , interleaved with Christ in GOD.
OUR "I AM's" , our spirits, are hidden with Christ in God. Done deal.
It's just hardly anybody knows......even Christians too.
So this is the source of confusion about giving.
Thy people [are] free-will gifts in the day of Thy strength, in the honours of holiness, From the womb, from the morning,
We do not give gifts really. We do not tithe, that is, the Old Covenant behaviour of tithing
WE ARE the freewill gifts.
And out from our identity as the freewill gifts, comes everything we do as Christians. A part of which is giving.
Oh, Chris, the pastors say, that is idealistic. If I trusted and relied on people getting this revelation of giving then I'd be out of a church and I'd have to get a job.
To which I reply...."And the problem is....?
Just about all of us on Facebook work. All our activities of blogging , using Twitter or Facebook are voluntary.
What I believe is this. We are the household of faith. As the Other-Love, Giving of Self to Others, Revelation of Christ's Giving Person, Our new identity in Him, busts out of our new created spirits and takes over more and more of our souls.....so we LIVE full time in this revelation
We are GOING to HAVE no trouble at all in supporting people with Word to share full-time, as they did in Acts, and as they supported Jesus in the gospels. Freewill offerings.
Meanwhile....
although 1980s charismatics don't yet understand the thirdlevel foundation of our giving, they have been learning some precious spiritual principles.
People who live and move in the Melchizedek Order, listening to and seeing what the Master is doing (Psalm 123) and put themselves out on a limb by faith, these are "the sons of God". Those who are led by the Spirit, these are sons of God.Romans 8:14 This is the new priesthood who serve day and night in the house of God. "We are a holy nation,a royal priesthood" 1 Peter 2:9
The Household of faith
Galations 6:10 Interlinear - "so then as occasion we have we should work good toward all but especially toward those of the household - of the- of faith"
It is the household of faith who we give to PRIMARILY. There is a Melchizedek blessing, a special blessing of God for those who give to the household of faith.
Tithing may have worked in the approximate settings of the Nation of Israel, but "a Greater has now come" who now serves in the Heavenly Sanctuary. Ministers who still live from tithes are living in the Old Covenant. They are NOT really the household of faith. Telling people that they must give tithes, then living from this collection of tenths of income.....well....you may as well be a salaried employee of Inland Revenue, because that is all you are doing.
People like Jackie Pullinger To when she started out in Hong Kong, and Elaine Waterfield are putting their lives on the line. It is a different order of giving. It is giving yourself lock stock and barrel to the Lord for your existence.
But as Jessie Duplantis said when talking on this subject. There are people you give to and the blessing does not rebound in the same way. You try it with Elaine Waterfield and Rich Novek, who has just launched himself out in this wayof faith. There is an anointing upon God's work done in God's way.
George Mueller proved to us as a forerunner of our current move, that you don't even have to tell people. In reality there IS NO LAW how we do things. For each it is up to the Holy Spirit to indicate. People can only give according to their standard of measure.
The standard of measure
This is way too weird for those who think their entire brain consists of their articulate reasoning. What about the way music hits you then? Articulate that to me? Sure we can give brief descriptions, but neither music nor the Presence of the Lord can be articulated that well, because that bit of our vessel that articulates wasn't made for picking up things like faith, dreams,"the single eye" that Jesus talks about....all this is understood by spirit and uses different parts of our being.
So the standard of measure is very related to how big our vision of God is. It is related also to what part of the Heavenly Tabernacle we most relate to...to the extent also we have entered into the River of God in experience. If we are just dipping our toes in, we won't have the faith to give that much yet, for we haven't proved God enough in our whole lives. And God knows and understands, and like a kindly Father is just anxious to get us to experiment more.
Experiencing the Seed
The more third level seed we experience. This is the Word of Christ "dwelling in us richly", either in us direct or as spoken to us by a thirdleveller/father ministry, the more our standard of measure changes on our insides.
This is what I wrote on my Facebook status this morning. It is what I woke up with.
In the third level it is Christ's seed,it is Christ Himself speaking through someone. Up until then there are spiritual gifts and people talking ABOUT Christ. What do you think Gideon's smashing of the pots was about? An olympic light festival? The Enemy did a runner. The Enemy is fine with waffle ABOUT Christ but CHRIST HIMSELF "I'm outta here!!"
The issue has always been a Third Level One : Has God Come In the Flesh? Peter said "Yes" and on that foundation the Church in the Earth first manifested.
The Heavenly Tabernacle described in Hebrews still stands. The Brazen Altar and the Laver Mirror is where you receive Christ's Seed of Life from above. The shewbread teaching about Christ and the Holy Spirit (gift) Candlesticks point to an existence of God coming in the flesh,but the Third Level LIVES it. This is an acacia box covered in gold within and without...our human boxes having a consciousness of Christ
The gospel that we share is simply Christ in us the hope of glory. All our giving is voluntary as the Holy Spirit indicates, and comes out of this essential freewill offering of Christ which included OUR DEATH and RESURRECTION IN HIM.
Give and It shall be given Unto you
What do you do as we career along in this life of the Spirit, and He dares to lead in new ways which we can't directly find spelled out in the Bible? Do you shut it off? Or do you adopt new practices as they seem to flow in the Holy Spirit?
Like women preaching and teaching.
Like Oral Roberts and Seed faith
Like Fire Tunnels which I experienced again in Lee On Solent this week.
Seed faith says that as we reach out to God for something that is totally beyond us, we give to the Lord but specifically "name" that seed. What is a seed gift but some money or possession that represents a certain amount of "man hours' labour" to earn? Or in Abrahamic terms,one of his "gifts" was his very own Child of Promise son, Isaac. Either way God honours us reaching out with any faith whatsoever. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Like anything, it can be us rubbing an Aladdin's Lamp in the delusion that we are a self-powered self, and God is at our beck and call. It's amazing how quickly God can disabuse us of this idea. But when we are confident of who we really are....now Christ in our form, in our personlality, in our body....all these spiritual "ways" are ours.....or "no activity at all"....just believing.
But God DOES name and bless spiritual activities that mean nothing after the flesh.....like
baptism in water
and breaking of bread.
Giving is a great "spiritual activity"
Not only is it great to give to God and other people, but God attaches special promises to it. Now my Facebook friend is a musician by temperament and he once wrote that we should be able to just give, and not expect stuff in return, for that means we are only giving to get, and that isn't giving at all. Well that's a musician's way of looking at things, content to make beautiful sounds all day. And my temperament is similar.However thankfully some of us are expressors of another part of God's personality: God the Entrepreneur, God the Developer and Multiplyer and Fruit Harvester. For this side of God the former talk is just way too airy fairy. So you see God is both. God is the Guardian Reader Leftie and the hardbitten Industrialist Telegraph reader Conservative.God is the God of Proverbs and prosperous businesses and farms and families, and God is also the God of the Jubilee Year when all property and money loans are called in.Giving is a great "spiritual activity"
Imagine one side of God allowed to run forever and ever on a tape loop? And what you get is the Illuminati,the council of 300,the Bankers, the Elite who want everything their way and are planning to destroy ninetenths of the Earth so that all the resources remain theirs with a manageable serfdom administrating it all....the survivors under them.
So God gives this promise. He says "Try Me". Give and it shall be given unto you, pressed down,running over, shall it be returned to you.
It's not always money. It's the WHOLE OF YOU. "I came that you should have life and life more abundantly." We think we are giving Him something when we give Him our life. So the first bit of Christianity is learning we are in fact nothing. Nothing but containers. before we were containers filled with Satan's false spirit of the Delusion of being self-powered, but it was really Satan. Self for self. Moving out of "survival"
Once God has eaten us out of house and home, and learned that we were never anything in our own right.....He then ADDS to us, pressed down, packed with abundance....Heaven's endless supply warehouses!!!!!! All accessed by faith....THE FAITH of the Son of God. Who Now lives within us.
Intercessory Trigger for Revival
If you have read Yonghi Cho of South Korea you will know that his vision only came to pass when a small old lady shuffled to the front, gave her only possession, a beaten up rice bowl with herself balanced precariously on it or around it. This so moved a millionnaire, that he offered to buy the bowl for a huge sum of money. And this was the trigger for the great church in Seoul. Which has become a mother church for so many around the world.
The Welsh revival began not with money or a gift....but the "giving" of a very reluctant confession of sinfulness by a teenage girl in the face of all the people she knew around her.
Elaine has already had national impact through Kenya television and meeting the Prime Minister two weeks ago. In the Spirit, though no official organisation will touch her or adopt her, just as to start with no organisation would touch Norman Grubb's latest materials, or Jackie Pullinger's early work in Hong Kong....yet Elaine has been faithful to sow in every bit of money left over from what she inherited at Nigel her husband's death.
It's not always money. It's the WHOLE OF YOU. "I came that you should have life and life more abundantly." We think we are giving Him something when we give Him our life. So the first bit of Christianity is learning we are in fact nothing. Nothing but containers. before we were containers filled with Satan's false spirit of the Delusion of being self-powered, but it was really Satan. Self for self. Moving out of "survival"
Once God has eaten us out of house and home, and learned that we were never anything in our own right.....He then ADDS to us, pressed down, packed with abundance....Heaven's endless supply warehouses!!!!!! All accessed by faith....THE FAITH of the Son of God. Who Now lives within us.
Intercessory Trigger for Revival
If you have read Yonghi Cho of South Korea you will know that his vision only came to pass when a small old lady shuffled to the front, gave her only possession, a beaten up rice bowl with herself balanced precariously on it or around it. This so moved a millionnaire, that he offered to buy the bowl for a huge sum of money. And this was the trigger for the great church in Seoul. Which has become a mother church for so many around the world.
The Welsh revival began not with money or a gift....but the "giving" of a very reluctant confession of sinfulness by a teenage girl in the face of all the people she knew around her.
Elaine has already had national impact through Kenya television and meeting the Prime Minister two weeks ago. In the Spirit, though no official organisation will touch her or adopt her, just as to start with no organisation would touch Norman Grubb's latest materials, or Jackie Pullinger's early work in Hong Kong....yet Elaine has been faithful to sow in every bit of money left over from what she inherited at Nigel her husband's death.
This is a completely different foundation for giving to someone like Elaine....and you just see what happens!!!!
Cherry Silcox on Facebook
23 July
 |
| Cherry Silcox |
ACTION
*DIRECT
If you are in the UK send money to
Elaine Waterfield
sort code 20 49 11
acc no 73486850
* VIA CHRISTIAN SUPPLIES (UK registered charity 1028509)
If outside the UK and you have a Paypal Account (And if you haven't it's really easy to sign up)
1.Log In to Your Account
2.Press The Second Tab - Send Money
3.in email put 07000intune@googlemail.com
4.Put amount in your local money
5. Choose Personal Tab (it's NOT a Purchase) and click on GIFTS. This is a lower rate.
Elaine is really real. She doesn't pretend. She is driven onward by her inward drive, and by reaching out to God in faith.(Think Jackie Pullinger) But from one day to the next her feelings about it all may go right up and down.
Yet she feels called by God to serve here, share her faith, and encourage others in a poor part of Kenya towards new ways of life, and ofcourse faith in God.
"WHEN I SEE ALL THAT gOD HAS DONE HERE ITS AWESOME THE FOOTBALL TOURNEMENT THE BUILDING THE LIVES SAVED IN LESS THAN SIX MONTHS ITS GREAT TO BE APART OF IT. BUT THE STRUGGLES IS THE NEED THE TERRIBLE NEED AND VMONEY BECOMES SO MUCH APART OF IT AND I HATE MONEY I HATE IT. I ALSO HATE THE BEING SICK UNCERTAINTY AND LANGUAGE BARRIERS AND LONLINESS BUT THATS WHAT IS TAKING UP JESUS CROSS I ALSO HATE BEING IN DEBT BUT GOS KNOWS AND HE IS THE ATHOUR AND FINISHER OF MY FAITH"
"when people in western world see people asking in third world for money they see with western world eyes with their wealth and how they liue but here in remote kenya they have nothing and poverty is extreme so whenwe say we need money we need money for medical education electricity and bed 4 wards rehab oqphanage etc its ouerwhelming but if we got some backers it would change a community especially as god is changing lives andwe empower them 2 help themselves i pray god will help us"
"laineeloo is so fed up being on her own single and uery lonely and prays that god will send along a mate whose fun loving and will join her as a mirsionary on her trauels"
"today another drinker nelson elderly man christopher and solomon came 2 the lord and we praise god for salvation so please pray 4 them we so need money 4 a rehab i pray joey and noel and trev will come here we so need donors 2 help the work here love laineeloo"
"Laineeloo has a request what we need is surgical gloves and plastic covers for shoes, and anything thats helps in Midwifery. We also need a delivery couch. Yesterday we had a woman giving birth and its really difficult for Sarah to help in labour when the woman is laying on the floor also without proper medical wear and protection its really concerning me as HIV?AIDS is so high here and Hep A,B,C Can anyone Help Sarah even wih medical equipment its urgently needed here in a remote part of Suna Migori"
"so much has happened in the last year doing things i never thought and meeting people like the judge who sentenced suddam 2 death but nobody wants 2 no wat god has been doing because i am laineeloo or they think i am lying or i am a nobody not in the big christian scene but god knows and hears my prayers and i praise him for how is using me
·
Emma Mcglynn Your a Giant, and we are all blessed by what God has been doing in your life and how you have stepped out in Faith. You have been a great Testimony and Servant and Helper and Encourager and far more than you realise. Thank you for sharing all your accounts and photos of your Mission and pray for me! Love Emma. xx23 July at 14:55 · · 1
Elaine Waterfield thank u emma but i wud like 2 say thank u 2 all the missionaries who work 4 the lord nobody nos about who work tiresly 4 the lord from uk 2 timbuck 2 without them people wud be lost so many big names get praise butwat about prison chaplains and vicars pastors on the front line
James Lornie Elaine you have no need for manly fame, the LORD OUR GOD will accliam you in his time, and when you are ready keep true to your promise give me the work, and I shall do it and that is just what your doing chin up keep your promise and God will keep his OK. xx
23 July at 16:45 · · 1
Cherry Silcox You ARE a BLESSING!!! and a CHAMPION!!!! a GREAT testimony to ALL who see and hear what God is doing thru you!!!!
Elaine Waterfield jim what i meant was that so many big orgaqisations could hekp prax 4 people i haue met but dont want 2 no because i am a nobody i haue alwaxs struggled whth bg keaderrs pastors thex will not euen speak 2 u on fb but god knows and prouides and sends hekp from the sanctuary from many louely penple "" i have got 2 the point where i am defeated. We have done all we can as we build hopes up at schools with girls and giving them pads. Go round community groups but with no money even for light bulbs now we are getting electric or beds for the labour ward its pointless. George gave up his job 2 do this work and i have no real income what we do is from the heart and own pocket. If we had a donor or charity who could give us a lot of money then we could out small loans 2 groups 4 seeds then pay the loan off when crops grow or buy seeds and give gift for school fee. We spent more money on kilamanjaro walk than what was sponsered. So we so want 2 change community but we just need god 2 provide a donor such is the endless need here up and until then we are stranded"
If you have time read more of her story in Kenya , with more photographs.
ACTION (REPEAT)
*DIRECTIf you are in the UK send money to
Elaine Waterfield
sort code 20 49 11
acc no 73486850
* VIA CHRISTIAN SUPPLIES (UK registered charity 1028509)
If outside the UK and you have a Paypal Account (And if you haven't it's really easy to sign up)
1.Log In to Your Account
2.Press The Second Tab - Send Money
3.in email put 07000intune@googlemail.com
4.Put amount in your local money
5. Choose Personal Tab (it's NOT a Purchase) and click on GIFTS. This is a lower rate.
Monday, 23 April 2012
More from Patrick Bwayo
Patrick will be sent a complete list of sender's names and emails to let you know he has received.
Today he writes
Pastpat Bwayo
- Dearest Ones in the Lord.
Things are ok on side and the Lord God is working in a mighty way to establish His Kingdom everywhere in the whole world. I have never looked behind whenever I face obstacles like those I requested you to pray for in my previous message. I thank you for the publicity you made towards my request. God reward you for your concern. I have however not got any funds yet. God our Father has I am sure spoken to some brethren but they do not have what to give. We still praying to God to touch those who can assist. I am particularly worried about the food for the orphans and fees for the last semester of my son. Exams begin on 30th this month. Continue to pray. Thanks.
We are praying for you and your wife Christine. God bless you with eternal life. Amen
This is what Patrick wrote a few days ago
Chris Welch writes: Contact Pastpat Bwayo Direct on Face book
Please send your assistance to Pastor Patrick Bwayo
Address: Box 1255, Mbale Town, Uganda. East Africa.
email: godofallnations@yahoo.com
Sadly Paypal DOES NOT mail money IN to UGANDA
You can send via Western Union from UK who charge £14 commission per £100 for gifts.
Friday, 9 October 2009
Transform Leicester on a 30 fold fruit ratio!
From Facebook Notes - Chris Welch
Transform Leicester on a 30fold fruit ratio
Share
posted today at 12:04
Nigel and Elaine Waterfield were featured here.http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2009/07/inspire-free-magazine.htmlThey are pioneering a local version of Transform - in this case Transform Leicester. Befor we start can I say 30 fold fruit is going to mean the phrase from Jesus when He said some 30 fold, some 60 fold and some 100fold. Where He talks about increase.I am not connecting 30 fold with Nigel and Elaine or Transform Leicester.
This is what I am saying.When they were down recently, they mentioned that while Transform can target broken lives, if the new Christians respond to Jesus they usually get blown out straight away by the local churches.Why?You could say at a surface level the churches are too middle class. But I'm going to stick my neck out here and say something else is going on. And it's a spiritual thing NOT a class thing.Proof: whatever class Jesus was, and His earthly background contained a whole mix of influences, the reason He could touch no matter who, had nothing to do with class....it was to do with spiritual authority.Churches are filled with 30 fold Christians or less. Many are saved enough to go to heaven, but scarcely saved enough in their own lives. Once people realise to be a hundredfold Christian has nothing to do with effort, since believing a little bit on the Name of the Lord may be enough to get you across the pearly gates....but believing a bit more of your being onto Jesus Name, may get you to be a 60fold Christian....while simply to give up self effort at all and simply place the whole of your being on the Name of Jesus is enough to become a 100folder!It's not self effort. it's the Living Jesus bringing things to pass in your life.Once we are really saved...as much on the outside as we are on the inside....we will find it a doddle to take the most broken of lives along with us in our slipstream of faith!
Point 2.The Kingdom (from an earthly point of view) is MAD.If you want to finance something...just get Chrysler or Ford, or Mitsubishi, or Coca Cola to do it! Sorted!
Nope. That's not how it works in the Kingdom. It's a series of widows giving their last mites to a supernatural increaser.....God.
Yonghi Cho believed for the biggest church in the world in South Korea. He arranged for a big building "by faith??!!??". But it wasn't until a little old lady brought her one possession of a rice bowl and presented that before the Lord that something happened.
In the Bible there is a Cain order of giving....a bit on the side.
And an Abel order of giving. Giving your whole sheep that you have tenderly reared.In a way I don't want Nigel and Elaine to read this. As you see in the Inspire magazine Nigel has muscular dystrophy. If anyone should move out to the suburbs it should be them!. But they obeyed the call of the Lord given at a Worldwide message tribe related event (I believe) to move FROM the suburbs to deprived areas, in order to love on folk and reach them for Jesus. It's a breaking thing to do, because as Graham Pulkingham found in the 60s in the Houston downtown suburbs , you are faced up with the fact that humanly you have nothing to give!! http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2008/12/third-level-approach-to-ministry-ii.htmlThis , to me is hundredfold stuff. Not the bit on the side in those Anglican and Methodist Bring and Buy sales we have here in church halls.
England and the USA we need to get a Life! A hundredfold one!
Transform Leicester on a 30fold fruit ratio
Share
posted today at 12:04
Nigel and Elaine Waterfield were featured here.http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2009/07/inspire-free-magazine.htmlThey are pioneering a local version of Transform - in this case Transform Leicester. Befor we start can I say 30 fold fruit is going to mean the phrase from Jesus when He said some 30 fold, some 60 fold and some 100fold. Where He talks about increase.I am not connecting 30 fold with Nigel and Elaine or Transform Leicester.
This is what I am saying.When they were down recently, they mentioned that while Transform can target broken lives, if the new Christians respond to Jesus they usually get blown out straight away by the local churches.Why?You could say at a surface level the churches are too middle class. But I'm going to stick my neck out here and say something else is going on. And it's a spiritual thing NOT a class thing.Proof: whatever class Jesus was, and His earthly background contained a whole mix of influences, the reason He could touch no matter who, had nothing to do with class....it was to do with spiritual authority.Churches are filled with 30 fold Christians or less. Many are saved enough to go to heaven, but scarcely saved enough in their own lives. Once people realise to be a hundredfold Christian has nothing to do with effort, since believing a little bit on the Name of the Lord may be enough to get you across the pearly gates....but believing a bit more of your being onto Jesus Name, may get you to be a 60fold Christian....while simply to give up self effort at all and simply place the whole of your being on the Name of Jesus is enough to become a 100folder!It's not self effort. it's the Living Jesus bringing things to pass in your life.Once we are really saved...as much on the outside as we are on the inside....we will find it a doddle to take the most broken of lives along with us in our slipstream of faith!
Point 2.The Kingdom (from an earthly point of view) is MAD.If you want to finance something...just get Chrysler or Ford, or Mitsubishi, or Coca Cola to do it! Sorted!
Nope. That's not how it works in the Kingdom. It's a series of widows giving their last mites to a supernatural increaser.....God.
Yonghi Cho believed for the biggest church in the world in South Korea. He arranged for a big building "by faith??!!??". But it wasn't until a little old lady brought her one possession of a rice bowl and presented that before the Lord that something happened.
In the Bible there is a Cain order of giving....a bit on the side.
And an Abel order of giving. Giving your whole sheep that you have tenderly reared.In a way I don't want Nigel and Elaine to read this. As you see in the Inspire magazine Nigel has muscular dystrophy. If anyone should move out to the suburbs it should be them!. But they obeyed the call of the Lord given at a Worldwide message tribe related event (I believe) to move FROM the suburbs to deprived areas, in order to love on folk and reach them for Jesus. It's a breaking thing to do, because as Graham Pulkingham found in the 60s in the Houston downtown suburbs , you are faced up with the fact that humanly you have nothing to give!! http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2008/12/third-level-approach-to-ministry-ii.htmlThis , to me is hundredfold stuff. Not the bit on the side in those Anglican and Methodist Bring and Buy sales we have here in church halls.
England and the USA we need to get a Life! A hundredfold one!
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