As great as this guy is, and as true as the dangers are lurking around Jesuits, I'm sorry, I don't actually believe this guy would have got on well with St John. So today, having done the Jesuits last week, let's blast this side of the church. Evangelicals will patronisingly allow musicians and artists to function among them because it makes them feel like they are giving everybody a chance. There is a slight problem though. No , let's call it a major problem, a crack right through the Body of Christ. It works like this. The tribe of Judah, for that is what musicians/prophets /creatives are in themselves are the weakest most useless bunch on the planet. They won't mend your car for you. They are peculiarly prone to living in another world, and when you ask them a simple question, they reply with about 6 tangential statements instead of a yes no answer. In short, for all practical purposes ...useless. And worst still, like Judah himself, they seem peculiarly prone to the worst possible scandalous activities. So why not exterminate them all? Because God has chosen this tribe...this useless bunch of nothings..to errrr....ummmm...how can I not shock you with this...TO LEAD.
But it is not ADMINISTRATIVE LEADERSHIP . It is "spiritual seeing" leadership. And since the Kingdom is all about "seeing what's next on the materialisation agenda"...all the other tribes have to lump it. God's Calling is without repentance. So Evangelicals patronisingly trying to investigate Spirit things on Youtubes, when they themselves wouldn't know a vision from a trance if it was on the BBC News at 6 o clock. They are NOT baptised in the Spirit. They absolutely have rebelled against God's word in Proverbs 3...because when God says to not rely on your own insight, well, they are too religious to do a V sign to God, or to use the fourletter word beginning with F and finishing with off....but this is what these rebellious evangelicalse do all the days of their life. They SIMPLY WILL NOT HAVE THIS MAN TO RULE OVER THEM....namely their minds...so for the rest of their days on earth they remain toddlers in the Spirit as in 1 John 2. THE PROBLEM ISN'T CONTEMPLATION. THE PROBLEM ISN'T MEDITATING. In that sense God is allowing Catholics and a whole host of New Agers to try all these things out. The problem is Genesis 3 separation and both charismatics and evangelicals are steeped in it. Apart from when they worship, for all practical terms of the rest of their lives, they could be atheists. Yes they can recite the Bible backwards....but if any of their brethren said to any of them as Jesus brothers did in John 7..."Are you going up to Keswick this year?" or whatever evangelicals do nowadays...probably see John Piper or something....they would reply "ofcourse". The mechanics of what Jesus was doing in John 7 are just not going to happen to an evangelical even if the moon turned to cheese. They deny artists/prophets the right to lead...actually, mostly once they are out of patronising mode, they actually deny their brethren's right to exist. They are far too indecent for evangelicals! St John's writings would have been declared New Age by this guy.
Showing posts with label the Tribe of Judah leads the way. Show all posts
Showing posts with label the Tribe of Judah leads the way. Show all posts
Monday, 17 March 2014
Wednesday, 12 December 2012
Jews
This post had its origin in a link that Martin Allan of Australia put on Facebook
http://www.theglobalistreport.com/vatican-world-government-new-world-order/
As you will learn in Makow's book referred to below, what appears like logical continuum to outsiders progressing quite naturally, has long been planned as a series of negatives which would then provoke people like the Pope to come to the conclusion in 2010 that we need a world central bank, and this month that we need a World Government Order. This was entirely the conclusion that everybody everywhere was meant to come to.
This is the introduction of Henry Makow's book on the New World Order "Illuminati - the Cult that hijacked the world"and how it has been planned and worked towards especially in the past 300 years.
OVERTURE
Based On a True Story?
If this were a movie treatment, it would be rejected as implausible. Our leaders are not chosen for their intelligence or achievement but rather because they are able to win the peoples' trust and willing to betray it. They are chosen by a small Satanic cult - Cabalistic bankers and Freemasons-that controls the world's finances and media. Our "leaders" are junior members of this international cult, called the Order of the Illuminati.
"We replaced the ruler by a caricature of a government," their Master Plan chortles, "by a president, taken from the mob, from the midst of our puppet creatures."
Many "leaders" are kept in line by having them indulge in horrifying occult rituals including human sacrifices, sexual orgies, pedophilia, rape, torture and murder. (See "Illuminati Sex Slaves Paint Horrifying Picture" and "The Root of the Problem: Illuminati or Jews?" within.)
The Illuminati goal is to degrade and enslave humanity, mentally and spiritually, if not physically. This group's influence is like a cancer that extends throughout society. It has subverted many seemingly benevolent organizations (like charities and professional associations) and most political movements, especially Zionism, Communism, Socialism, Liberalism, Neo-conservatism and Fascism. This is why society seems to be run by soulless men with pinched faces who spout platitudes and exude evil.
The Illuminati have subverted all religions and institutions including one group that fancies itself "chosen by God." In fact, leaders of this group figure prominently in creating this Satanic dispensation. But whenever critics suggest that the "Chosen" are being misled and betrayed, they are accused of "racism"-a clever way of quashing resistance.
Thus, attention to the most pressing problem of all time is dismissed as "prejudice." And the Chosen continue to be pawns, scapegoats and human shields for their diabolical and deceitful "leaders."
Like a security beam, Illuminati tyranny is invisible until you cross it. Then, doors silently close and positions of influence are denied. If you persist, you are slandered, bankrupted or even killed. In the future, truth tellers and dissenters will be denied access to credit and trade. It is amazing how easily we have succumbed to tyranny.
Public success is determined by acquiescence-witting or unwitting-in this diabolical conspiracy. The people of the West are blinkered, leaderless and feckless. Our material and technological achievement is great, but culturally and spiritually we are impoverished and enchained.
FORWARD
The "Jewish" Conspiracy
Recently, on his internet radio show, Alan Stang asked me if there is such a thing as a Jewish conspiracy. He gets e-mail from people blaming Jews, Jesuits, the Vatican, Freemasons etc.
I replied that the central banking cartel is the only group with both the motive and the means to take over the world. Consisting mainly of Cabala-believing Jews and Freemasons, it is the head of the octopus. Zionism, Freemasonry, organized Jewry, Imperialism, Jesuits, Vatican, Intelligence agencies, mass media, etc. are among countless octopus arms..............
http://www.theglobalistreport.com/vatican-world-government-new-world-order/
As you will learn in Makow's book referred to below, what appears like logical continuum to outsiders progressing quite naturally, has long been planned as a series of negatives which would then provoke people like the Pope to come to the conclusion in 2010 that we need a world central bank, and this month that we need a World Government Order. This was entirely the conclusion that everybody everywhere was meant to come to.
This is the introduction of Henry Makow's book on the New World Order "Illuminati - the Cult that hijacked the world"and how it has been planned and worked towards especially in the past 300 years.
OVERTURE
Based On a True Story?
If this were a movie treatment, it would be rejected as implausible. Our leaders are not chosen for their intelligence or achievement but rather because they are able to win the peoples' trust and willing to betray it. They are chosen by a small Satanic cult - Cabalistic bankers and Freemasons-that controls the world's finances and media. Our "leaders" are junior members of this international cult, called the Order of the Illuminati.
"We replaced the ruler by a caricature of a government," their Master Plan chortles, "by a president, taken from the mob, from the midst of our puppet creatures."
Many "leaders" are kept in line by having them indulge in horrifying occult rituals including human sacrifices, sexual orgies, pedophilia, rape, torture and murder. (See "Illuminati Sex Slaves Paint Horrifying Picture" and "The Root of the Problem: Illuminati or Jews?" within.)
The Illuminati goal is to degrade and enslave humanity, mentally and spiritually, if not physically. This group's influence is like a cancer that extends throughout society. It has subverted many seemingly benevolent organizations (like charities and professional associations) and most political movements, especially Zionism, Communism, Socialism, Liberalism, Neo-conservatism and Fascism. This is why society seems to be run by soulless men with pinched faces who spout platitudes and exude evil.
The Illuminati have subverted all religions and institutions including one group that fancies itself "chosen by God." In fact, leaders of this group figure prominently in creating this Satanic dispensation. But whenever critics suggest that the "Chosen" are being misled and betrayed, they are accused of "racism"-a clever way of quashing resistance.
Thus, attention to the most pressing problem of all time is dismissed as "prejudice." And the Chosen continue to be pawns, scapegoats and human shields for their diabolical and deceitful "leaders."
Like a security beam, Illuminati tyranny is invisible until you cross it. Then, doors silently close and positions of influence are denied. If you persist, you are slandered, bankrupted or even killed. In the future, truth tellers and dissenters will be denied access to credit and trade. It is amazing how easily we have succumbed to tyranny.
Public success is determined by acquiescence-witting or unwitting-in this diabolical conspiracy. The people of the West are blinkered, leaderless and feckless. Our material and technological achievement is great, but culturally and spiritually we are impoverished and enchained.
FORWARD
The "Jewish" Conspiracy
Recently, on his internet radio show, Alan Stang asked me if there is such a thing as a Jewish conspiracy. He gets e-mail from people blaming Jews, Jesuits, the Vatican, Freemasons etc.
I replied that the central banking cartel is the only group with both the motive and the means to take over the world. Consisting mainly of Cabala-believing Jews and Freemasons, it is the head of the octopus. Zionism, Freemasonry, organized Jewry, Imperialism, Jesuits, Vatican, Intelligence agencies, mass media, etc. are among countless octopus arms..............
Chris Welch
Jews.
Jews take their name from the tribe and the federal head of the tribe in history, Judah. Judah was NOT the firsborn,but the fourth. "Judah" is related to the word praise,honour,lauding.Although charismatics will tell you about Judah meaning praise, and being the leading tribe, Genesis 38 tells a story that blows the charismatic level of seeing apart.This is the story of Tamar....incest and prostitution.
Now in the same vein, that God's emblem for Jews is "circumcision".....(ie a feature that can hardly be advertised as other nations choose to) His calling is precisely upon Judah...precisely INCLUDING all this dirty washing.
THAT IS THE POINT which natural Jews after the flesh wish to bury.....but that's the POINT of the gospel.
What is impossible for man, God WORKS for us according to His calling and promise. God is NOT PHASED.
I wrote privately on Facebook:
Jews continued:
On some matters, Daniel Yordy,Rich Novek and I have noticed you have to really get revelation. We struggle to get our heads round things, then suddenly...and quite often in a meeting....or in a relaxed setting like the bath, or out for a walk or holiday...or shopping....suddenly stuff clicks internally. Daniel has mentioned this quite a lot since he began writing online.....and even quite recently on his most uptodate posts.
I have noticed I can talk about Jews, but what seems factually and Biblically evident to me, is not seen by others always. Somehow the same blinkers over lots of other Christian subject matter is also over the subject of the Jews. In a nutshell...those who love the Jews don't seem to realise the nation was formed and is largely run by people with an agenda that is either mistakenly New World Order, or very deliberately Luciferian New World Order, as typified by David Spangler, spiritual advisor to the United Nations. Or others are firmly convinced the subject of Israel is already closed, and that's that....now it's all about Christianity.Neither view is correct.
But I have to be honest.
I had a download of supernatural revelation about the Jews one specific weekend in 1988 and ENTIRELY in the context of me stepping out on a limb praying every day with the paralysed girl (the second one) in a neighbouring town for about 6 months.
So although I can say what I saw....it doesn't communicate very well.
I'm glad I had that first, before adding to it what I now know about "people who say they are Jews but are not".....the Caballist, Luciferian type, who as Makow says....have so much money....trillions and trillions....you could be forgiven for thinking this is all Jews are.
Try thinking of Abraham's story....the entire thing.....culminating in the eclipsing event that Daniel and I have referred to in our posts
The DIVINE PHOTOGRAPH IN TIME that God took on His Divine Instamatic
which was Abraham....being free to offer up Isaac, the child of Promise....ALL in the Faith that he would be raised!!!!
Now put the Abraham story superimposed over the whole of history.....
The central core of the story is Believing God's Promise (against hope) for a Child who would be raised up to bless the whole Earth....to ultimately fulfil God's Word to Adam which was:
Multiply, fill the Earth and Subdue it.
Now Abraham blows things several times.
In raising up offspring that are NOT part of the house eg Eliezer and Ishmael.
Notice each time....the offspring are "FURTHER IN"
But God always said "In Isaac" shall your offspring be named.
I'll come back to that.
Abraham also kept selling his wife down the river....in effect....out of fear...with a couple of Kings. Evidently, their believing had kept Sarah very desirable!!!
But the point of the phrase "In Isaac" shall your sons be named is very KEY.
Because all the natural Jews today think after the flesh just as they did in Jesus day.
But Jesus bears this out.
Later Paul does too.
"In Isaac shall your sons be named"...DOES NOT REFER to Isaac's DNA only.
It refers to a God coming in the flesh miracle that in this case meant Isaac was born to a woman well past bearing age.
But both Jesus and the Father were "seeing through" this instant....something much more grandiose.
They were seeing a nation....a church....come down from heaven...by miracle...by believing in God's promise.
This is Zion from Above.
So in Isaac shall you be named.....doesn't JUST mean...where you only get a spiritual version but nothing ever manifests.....
But IT DOESNT MEAN like the natural Jews mean....oh....I am of the "right lineage" so I'm in with the in crowd.
No ...In Isaac shall you be named is a Divine principle of living by faith in the supernatural promises of God....that then MANIFESTS in the flesh.
ITS BOTH AND.
So the Jews, at the moment Paul says....have blown it big time....just like Abraham did in several ways.....
but because of that DIVINE photograph GOD still keeps His covenant with the Jews....and you can almost see the whole nation being ripped right down the middle.....and into the very hole marked "UNFAITHFULNESS" God takes His giant fist and grafts IN another people who were NOT A PEOPLE
you see believers ARE NOT A PEOPLE
we are a rag tag disjointed bunch called supernaturally from the four winds,
out of whom we, who weren't really even looking for God.....God brings to Himself by grace, and plunges us into the the central HOLE of Israel's unfaithfulness.....and plugs it with a people who are being fashioned according to the FAITHFULNESS of HIS SON.
He calls a people who were not a people
A people of unknown tongue
A people who were far off
Romans 10
Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
“I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”[j]
20 And Isaiah boldly says,
“I was found by those who did not seek me;
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”[k]
BUT BACK TO ISRAEL.....
the NWO is a giant ISHMAEL
It's humans and the predominant drive is coming from Satanist Jews to create God's world prophecy for Him...
Just like Abraham thought it was a good idea to try to create God's Promise for Him through Hagar. It's the man made attempt version of "Fill the earth and Subdue it"....except man hasn't got the faith for subduing the earth by filling it.....and only seeing obstacles and not having faith....man has come up with plans to kill all but 500,000,000 people.
But just as Hagar and Ishmael were not the end of the story.....
neither is the New World Order.
Right in the middle of this mayhem comes Isaac
God's true people....initially mainly Gentiles...born from above...
but then true Jews get so jealous
of what God is building....
"Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!"
So there's a denoument to all this....a tying up of all the loose ends
a time of "their full inclusion"
like Jacob being reconciled to Esau
or Joseph's brothers wanting to reconcile with Joseph.
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
So just as the Abraham story DID eventually end with a physical CHILD OF PROMISE
The actual story of God's Promise first to the Jew then to the Gentiles shall all wrap up as well.
BUT HERE IS THE KEY....
It's a Peniel type Key.
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob
You see it's a third level key.
It's not...he will turn godlessness away from Abraham
nor is it ...he will turn godlessness away from Isaac
In the God package Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...it's Jacob
who really reaches ground zero with God and has his name changed...
it's the tail end of the story
and so it is with the Jews in the whole of their history...they are after all, the house of Jacob...
The real denouement of their story has been held up if you like, or stalled.....and here I am talking about them as a nation...
If the story of God with Man is not an evangelical one...(that's just the start of acknowledging God, entering the Way of God)
If it's NOT a charismatic one....(that's just like Isaac's story of uncovering wells...but hardly prospering with any of them, because enemies kept coming along and seizing them
(and isn't this like so many things by the way? The Non-Conformists weren't allowed to enter Oxford or Cambridge Universities....Elizabeth Fry and the Cadbury family ended up building chocolate empires!!!! which have all been snaffled by New World order related firm Nestle. Boy's Brigade were invented by the Baptists...but the Luciferians arranged for Baden Powell to use the same idea as Boy Scouts etc to help get kids ready for the regimentation of the World Wars. Music came forth through the black culture and the singing of praise among the pentecostal saints. This was snaffled by a largely white Jewish cartel in the form of rock and roll, leading to huge personal profits of a relative few.....so it goes on)
continued.....No the story of God is ALL THREE , Abraham,Isaac and Jacob,wrapping everything up in Jacob's final encounter at Peniel.
The simplistic God story of church....I was an unbeliever and then I met Christ....doesn't even begin to cut it with the great story of God and Man....
Man has to reach ground zero.....to learn every molecule of his wrong spirit living....which he has always ascribed to soul level wrongs.....
It's there in the utter desperation of Jacob that Jews and Gentiles will meet.
No independent self.
No figleaves.
Only clothed in Christ.
Jews aren't impressed with Church....nobody is at that level yet. Well maybe a handful, but most of them will be chucked out, because nobody else is at that ground zero base of living.
Church is a FIGLEAF SHOW...helping God out with songs and worship because they are not coming from the heart yet. Nobody is that down and dirty with God yet....not like Mary Magdelan or the adulteress that Jesus did not condemn...or the Samaritan woman at the Well
or St Peter, blown apart on the shore of Galilee....
Churches don't have people like that. Everybody in the whole world knows that and makes Simpsons ,Family Guy and South park cartoons about it....it's only the church that do not realise they are walking around with all their genitalia hanging out.
Everybody in the whole world knows that and makes Simpsons ,Family Guy and South Park cartoons about it....it's only the church that do not realise they are walking around with all their genitalia still hanging out.Jews take their name from the tribe and the federal head of the tribe in history, Judah. Judah was NOT the firsborn,but the fourth. "Judah" is related to the word praise,honour,lauding.Although charismatics will tell you about Judah meaning praise, and being the leading tribe, Genesis 38 tells a story that blows the charismatic level of seeing apart.This is the story of Tamar....incest and prostitution.
Now in the same vein, that God's emblem for Jews is "circumcision".....(ie a feature that can hardly be advertised as other nations choose to) His calling is precisely upon Judah...precisely INCLUDING all this dirty washing.
THAT IS THE POINT which natural Jews after the flesh wish to bury.....but that's the POINT of the gospel.
What is impossible for man, God WORKS for us according to His calling and promise. God is NOT PHASED.
I wrote privately on Facebook:
Jews continued:
On some matters, Daniel Yordy,Rich Novek and I have noticed you have to really get revelation. We struggle to get our heads round things, then suddenly...and quite often in a meeting....or in a relaxed setting like the bath, or out for a walk or holiday...or shopping....suddenly stuff clicks internally. Daniel has mentioned this quite a lot since he began writing online.....and even quite recently on his most uptodate posts.
I have noticed I can talk about Jews, but what seems factually and Biblically evident to me, is not seen by others always. Somehow the same blinkers over lots of other Christian subject matter is also over the subject of the Jews. In a nutshell...those who love the Jews don't seem to realise the nation was formed and is largely run by people with an agenda that is either mistakenly New World Order, or very deliberately Luciferian New World Order, as typified by David Spangler, spiritual advisor to the United Nations. Or others are firmly convinced the subject of Israel is already closed, and that's that....now it's all about Christianity.Neither view is correct.
But I have to be honest.
I had a download of supernatural revelation about the Jews one specific weekend in 1988 and ENTIRELY in the context of me stepping out on a limb praying every day with the paralysed girl (the second one) in a neighbouring town for about 6 months.
So although I can say what I saw....it doesn't communicate very well.
I'm glad I had that first, before adding to it what I now know about "people who say they are Jews but are not".....the Caballist, Luciferian type, who as Makow says....have so much money....trillions and trillions....you could be forgiven for thinking this is all Jews are.
Try thinking of Abraham's story....the entire thing.....culminating in the eclipsing event that Daniel and I have referred to in our posts
The DIVINE PHOTOGRAPH IN TIME that God took on His Divine Instamatic
which was Abraham....being free to offer up Isaac, the child of Promise....ALL in the Faith that he would be raised!!!!
Now put the Abraham story superimposed over the whole of history.....
The central core of the story is Believing God's Promise (against hope) for a Child who would be raised up to bless the whole Earth....to ultimately fulfil God's Word to Adam which was:
Multiply, fill the Earth and Subdue it.
Now Abraham blows things several times.
In raising up offspring that are NOT part of the house eg Eliezer and Ishmael.
Notice each time....the offspring are "FURTHER IN"
But God always said "In Isaac" shall your offspring be named.
I'll come back to that.
Abraham also kept selling his wife down the river....in effect....out of fear...with a couple of Kings. Evidently, their believing had kept Sarah very desirable!!!
But the point of the phrase "In Isaac" shall your sons be named is very KEY.
Because all the natural Jews today think after the flesh just as they did in Jesus day.
But Jesus bears this out.
Later Paul does too.
"In Isaac shall your sons be named"...DOES NOT REFER to Isaac's DNA only.
It refers to a God coming in the flesh miracle that in this case meant Isaac was born to a woman well past bearing age.
But both Jesus and the Father were "seeing through" this instant....something much more grandiose.
They were seeing a nation....a church....come down from heaven...by miracle...by believing in God's promise.
This is Zion from Above.
So in Isaac shall you be named.....doesn't JUST mean...where you only get a spiritual version but nothing ever manifests.....
But IT DOESNT MEAN like the natural Jews mean....oh....I am of the "right lineage" so I'm in with the in crowd.
No ...In Isaac shall you be named is a Divine principle of living by faith in the supernatural promises of God....that then MANIFESTS in the flesh.
ITS BOTH AND.
So the Jews, at the moment Paul says....have blown it big time....just like Abraham did in several ways.....
but because of that DIVINE photograph GOD still keeps His covenant with the Jews....and you can almost see the whole nation being ripped right down the middle.....and into the very hole marked "UNFAITHFULNESS" God takes His giant fist and grafts IN another people who were NOT A PEOPLE
you see believers ARE NOT A PEOPLE
we are a rag tag disjointed bunch called supernaturally from the four winds,
out of whom we, who weren't really even looking for God.....God brings to Himself by grace, and plunges us into the the central HOLE of Israel's unfaithfulness.....and plugs it with a people who are being fashioned according to the FAITHFULNESS of HIS SON.
He calls a people who were not a people
A people of unknown tongue
A people who were far off
Romans 10
Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
“I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”[j]
20 And Isaiah boldly says,
“I was found by those who did not seek me;
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”[k]
BUT BACK TO ISRAEL.....
the NWO is a giant ISHMAEL
It's humans and the predominant drive is coming from Satanist Jews to create God's world prophecy for Him...
Just like Abraham thought it was a good idea to try to create God's Promise for Him through Hagar. It's the man made attempt version of "Fill the earth and Subdue it"....except man hasn't got the faith for subduing the earth by filling it.....and only seeing obstacles and not having faith....man has come up with plans to kill all but 500,000,000 people.
But just as Hagar and Ishmael were not the end of the story.....
neither is the New World Order.
Right in the middle of this mayhem comes Isaac
God's true people....initially mainly Gentiles...born from above...
but then true Jews get so jealous
of what God is building....
"Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!"
So there's a denoument to all this....a tying up of all the loose ends
a time of "their full inclusion"
like Jacob being reconciled to Esau
or Joseph's brothers wanting to reconcile with Joseph.
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
So just as the Abraham story DID eventually end with a physical CHILD OF PROMISE
The actual story of God's Promise first to the Jew then to the Gentiles shall all wrap up as well.
BUT HERE IS THE KEY....
It's a Peniel type Key.
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob
You see it's a third level key.
It's not...he will turn godlessness away from Abraham
nor is it ...he will turn godlessness away from Isaac
In the God package Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...it's Jacob
who really reaches ground zero with God and has his name changed...
it's the tail end of the story
and so it is with the Jews in the whole of their history...they are after all, the house of Jacob...
The real denouement of their story has been held up if you like, or stalled.....and here I am talking about them as a nation...
If the story of God with Man is not an evangelical one...(that's just the start of acknowledging God, entering the Way of God)
If it's NOT a charismatic one....(that's just like Isaac's story of uncovering wells...but hardly prospering with any of them, because enemies kept coming along and seizing them
(and isn't this like so many things by the way? The Non-Conformists weren't allowed to enter Oxford or Cambridge Universities....Elizabeth Fry and the Cadbury family ended up building chocolate empires!!!! which have all been snaffled by New World order related firm Nestle. Boy's Brigade were invented by the Baptists...but the Luciferians arranged for Baden Powell to use the same idea as Boy Scouts etc to help get kids ready for the regimentation of the World Wars. Music came forth through the black culture and the singing of praise among the pentecostal saints. This was snaffled by a largely white Jewish cartel in the form of rock and roll, leading to huge personal profits of a relative few.....so it goes on)
continued.....No the story of God is ALL THREE , Abraham,Isaac and Jacob,wrapping everything up in Jacob's final encounter at Peniel.
The simplistic God story of church....I was an unbeliever and then I met Christ....doesn't even begin to cut it with the great story of God and Man....
Man has to reach ground zero.....to learn every molecule of his wrong spirit living....which he has always ascribed to soul level wrongs.....
It's there in the utter desperation of Jacob that Jews and Gentiles will meet.
No independent self.
No figleaves.
Only clothed in Christ.
Jews aren't impressed with Church....nobody is at that level yet. Well maybe a handful, but most of them will be chucked out, because nobody else is at that ground zero base of living.
Church is a FIGLEAF SHOW...helping God out with songs and worship because they are not coming from the heart yet. Nobody is that down and dirty with God yet....not like Mary Magdelan or the adulteress that Jesus did not condemn...or the Samaritan woman at the Well
or St Peter, blown apart on the shore of Galilee....
Churches don't have people like that. Everybody in the whole world knows that and makes Simpsons ,Family Guy and South park cartoons about it....it's only the church that do not realise they are walking around with all their genitalia hanging out.
Wednesday, 10 November 2010
TWO GOATS : PERIOD
by Chris Welch Facebook Notes Friday, 05 November 2010 at 15:40
I was sharing at a conference centre with Andre Rabe about the 2 GOATS.It was one of those times when you feel something leave you and impact someone/several....not sure. What I do know is Rosie Crawford who is now whizzing round her South African home country asked me to put it down in writing on FB to her. So below this writing is the four or five status Facebook copy, which you can read first or later...or not at all if you want to have some coffee at Starbucks!!
Folks this is huge, I believe. I have just waded through the Heidi Venie podcast messages, which but for the pregnancy tragedy , may just as well be "BOTTLED WELCH" from my rather limited worship leading in Amersham, Germany, Exeter Uni, and Emsworth Church over two decades after my experience of baptism in the Spirit in 1972.
What I'm saying is....the "creatives", the songwriters,the prophetic types,the flaky no earthly good collective, the artists....and I'm temperamentally somewhere in there....are as Darin Hufford has mentioned often....leaving church in their droves. In spiritual terms I call them the tribe of Judah. And when the tribe of Judah break camp, you stop barbecuing right? Even if it's barbecued MANNA. You take notice!!! Or should do.
It is by no means this breed only that know there is something wrong...if anyone is listening attentively I believe the Holy Spirit is unsettling a whole variety of people. It's just the flakies are surface feelies, and they let you know about it immediately. Everyone else has the decorum to shutup longer.
SO WE RECOGNISE THERE IS A PROBLEM! BUT WHAT?
I'm being showered by reader's responses with lots of surface stuff right now....and it probably is true...but not true enough.
Others are holding up their historic hot potatoes at a much deeper level. So it's Arminianism then....no Calvinism.
So it's the way we meet....it should be Quaker....or Darby.....
No, no....it's that we should be pentecostal......or apostolic......or just know our Bibles better like the evangelicals.
It's that we shouldn't go to church......or should go to church.....etc etc etc
What I'm saying now is that the VERY WAY we entered into the WAY OF GOD IS FAULTY. The rather feeble earthly picture of us entering the WAY OF GOD is pictured by the TABERNACLE.
When WAS the last sermon you heard on the 2 GOATS?
And if you are Brethren stock, you will have, but I bet BOTH oF THEM related to "Taking sins away".
So what I'm saying is one was to take sins away, one was to take SIN away. And the rather crushing truth is THE GOATS is by the Admission Office close to the Entrance DOOR.
WE HAVE ALL BOUGHT ENTRANCE TO A CHRISTIANITY THAT ONLY HAS ONE GOAT.
And the crazy thing is we were let in!!!!!!!
So it's not that some are baptized in the Spirit, and some have the theology of Baptism in the spirit (wo, thorny)....no no no.....that is all way past the laver into the Holy Place. No what we have is more crushing than that.
HOW DOES IT AFFECT US?
Well Sylvia Pearce says when we come to have Communion in any church whatsoever.....it's only a 50% event.
Nobody understands or more specifically has revelation on anything more than the BLOOD. To forgive sins.
Doesn't matter how charismatic your church is, or how High episcopalean.....this is equally true of Both.
BUT THIS IS NOT CHRISTIANITY.
Or if you are a Free Believer, you reverse the concept and say IT IS CHRISTIANITY, BUT NOT THE WAY OF CHRIST.
I couldn't care a fat fig about Free Believerisms or denominationalisms
IT IS WHAT IS TRUE IN OUR HEARTS BY THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD that counts
What I am saying is if you only have one goat, you are condemning the whole of the rest of your Heavenly Tabernacle experience to one limp what Paul would call "menstrual cloth". Rubbish. Dung. Horsepooh.
Why is this relevant? Well you get this happening. You get a Heidi Venie and a Chris Welch being enticed away from true Spirit relationship and outpouring of private intimacy and fresh songs, and you find our" still alive goat" rearing up wanting a bit of recognition and control and stardom.....and hooking into the goat of the pastor /leader group who know they can put their feet up and let the muzos (musicians) entertain the crowd, and already half the service is taken up!!! MAGIC. So what I am saying about Heidi and myself, and a gazillion others is it was SYMBIOTIC this system failure. We can blame others....BUT WE BOUGHT INTO IT.
So what should happen?
It is described below, but let's take bits in slow motion.
The first goat is the absolute, complete for all time forgiveness of what we did, and what we may be doing now, and what we will ever do that is offensive to God. It's a complete death of one whole goat. At the entrance. The first thing you do as a Christian. Sin question . Settled.
The next problem for God is, without resurrecting the first goat, how do you get over that the MAN OF SIN, the SIN PRINCIPLE, the INDWELLING BIAS to SIN, is left behind in hell, by a now empty Body of Jesus after the death on the Cross, with its spirit container opened up, and emptied out in the manner of a rubbish lorry at a waste site, municiipal site......how do you get that over to folk in the middle of a wilderness? Aha!
A second goat. This goat IS NOT to repeat the idea of sins being cast as far as the oceans away from you. You Pentecostals got that wrong.
No this is HUGE! This is what makes Church work! This is what makes Jews even want to come within smelling distance of the tragedy known as Christian Church. This second goat, represents the UTTER annhilation of your sin spirit at your spirit centre. You are a container for spirit, and you have a soul and a body. Your soul and your body have to catch up with what just happened.
But one thing that just happened, is that for the First time in history a set of people larger than ones or twos got themselves thoroughly INITIATED INTO THE NEW COVENANT. Yes for the FIRST TIME. IN every nation that you are reading this.
Not like the Episcopalean church that only talk about the New Covenant, but wouldn't recognise it if the stadium lights were full on. They run this warmed up Jewish affair that neither Jews recognise nor do those born of the Spirit.Neither good for man nor beast.
The Holy Spirit orientated churches wouldn't recognise the New Covenant either, because it has no goat running around tiring out the congregations to the point of breakdown. The charismatic movement needed goats to make it work.
No. I'm announcing something completely radical here. A completely different form of Christianity, which Norman Grubb believed for on his deathbed at 97 or so,15 yearsago.His last of nearly a century of realised successful intercessions.
more Sylvia Pearce details on this subject, but less goats!
http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2010/06/two-deliverances-available-at-cross-by.html
+++++++++++++++++
The Two Goats picture in the OT Tabernacle- to South African Rosie The scapegoat idea in trad. Circles if it is talked about at all is vaguely referred to as another image of forgiveness.God had a real problem with this one as an image and it was the Nearest way He could explain the two aspects of Jesus death without resurrecting the first goat,which would have been tricky every day in the tabernacle don't you think?
On my blog is a great piece by Sylvia Pearce describing the Body and Blood aspects of Jesus death.No denomination and few others "get" anything about the Communion other than the Blood for forgiveness.The first goat goes up in smoke dying in our place,offering its blood.The second goat describes how Jesus went down into Hades or whatever for us to "lose" the sin spirit that has been passed from generation to generation,and leave it at the lost property door of hellWhen Jesus was RAISED bodily,it was the Holy Spirit who raised Him, but even more incredible WE WERE RAISED IN HIM .So since the second goat at the very entrance to Gods house,I am not only forgiven,MY CENTRAL ME Has changed from Satan or Sin spirit- I to Christ-I.
The 2nd goat means it is NOT I (the former diseased spirit) that live it is (a completely different )Christ fused I that live,and the life I live now I live by the power of the FAITH OF (lit. Greek) Christ.So the communion for us is a much much much greater celebration than anyone could have ever imagined.It is both the Blood forgiveness and the Body death replacement of me totally....well my spirit. My heart mind and will and body have to spend a time readjusting to the new reality!!!!
For me,the issue in the church today IS NOT to go out and form a FREE BELIEVERS group,tho I quite understand it.It is NOT to post articles on KUNDULINI(someone today on FB) and familiar spirits,tho you can if you want....the issue is so simple...it is that most of the people in churches today haven't the first clue about what Jesus has done for them in being their 2nd goat.Get that right,no more parachurch FREE believers,No more Kundilini....Only believers 100% clear on their latest IDENTITY!!!!!the rest is totally old fashioned and since the CROSS past its sell by date!!!
LikeUnlike · Comment · Share · DeleteMikkel Thomsen, Evke Sambul Tampi Silalahi and Evg Salvo Colicchia II like this.
Paul Noble Interesting must get together and have a chat.
05 November at 16:53 · LikeUnlikeEvke Sambul Tampi Silalahi Thank for the sharing n prayer from you my brother with the LORD CHRIST.You is my brother is the good n the best for me n to the LORD.It's true if afriend loves at all times,and a brother is born for adversity.We will rejoice in thy salvation n in the name of our GOD we will set up (our) banners,the GOD fulfil all thy petitions.JESUS CHRIST bless U n Ur family always.
05 November at 22:11 via Facebook Mobile · LikeUnlikeChris Welch Never feel quite worthy of your comments Evke,but in Christ I can be confident.Bless all of you there!!!
05 November at 23:28 via Facebook Mobile · LikeUnlike · 1 person
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I was sharing at a conference centre with Andre Rabe about the 2 GOATS.It was one of those times when you feel something leave you and impact someone/several....not sure. What I do know is Rosie Crawford who is now whizzing round her South African home country asked me to put it down in writing on FB to her. So below this writing is the four or five status Facebook copy, which you can read first or later...or not at all if you want to have some coffee at Starbucks!!
Folks this is huge, I believe. I have just waded through the Heidi Venie podcast messages, which but for the pregnancy tragedy , may just as well be "BOTTLED WELCH" from my rather limited worship leading in Amersham, Germany, Exeter Uni, and Emsworth Church over two decades after my experience of baptism in the Spirit in 1972.
What I'm saying is....the "creatives", the songwriters,the prophetic types,the flaky no earthly good collective, the artists....and I'm temperamentally somewhere in there....are as Darin Hufford has mentioned often....leaving church in their droves. In spiritual terms I call them the tribe of Judah. And when the tribe of Judah break camp, you stop barbecuing right? Even if it's barbecued MANNA. You take notice!!! Or should do.
It is by no means this breed only that know there is something wrong...if anyone is listening attentively I believe the Holy Spirit is unsettling a whole variety of people. It's just the flakies are surface feelies, and they let you know about it immediately. Everyone else has the decorum to shutup longer.
SO WE RECOGNISE THERE IS A PROBLEM! BUT WHAT?
I'm being showered by reader's responses with lots of surface stuff right now....and it probably is true...but not true enough.
Others are holding up their historic hot potatoes at a much deeper level. So it's Arminianism then....no Calvinism.
So it's the way we meet....it should be Quaker....or Darby.....
No, no....it's that we should be pentecostal......or apostolic......or just know our Bibles better like the evangelicals.
It's that we shouldn't go to church......or should go to church.....etc etc etc
What I'm saying now is that the VERY WAY we entered into the WAY OF GOD IS FAULTY. The rather feeble earthly picture of us entering the WAY OF GOD is pictured by the TABERNACLE.
When WAS the last sermon you heard on the 2 GOATS?
And if you are Brethren stock, you will have, but I bet BOTH oF THEM related to "Taking sins away".
So what I'm saying is one was to take sins away, one was to take SIN away. And the rather crushing truth is THE GOATS is by the Admission Office close to the Entrance DOOR.
WE HAVE ALL BOUGHT ENTRANCE TO A CHRISTIANITY THAT ONLY HAS ONE GOAT.
And the crazy thing is we were let in!!!!!!!
So it's not that some are baptized in the Spirit, and some have the theology of Baptism in the spirit (wo, thorny)....no no no.....that is all way past the laver into the Holy Place. No what we have is more crushing than that.
HOW DOES IT AFFECT US?
Well Sylvia Pearce says when we come to have Communion in any church whatsoever.....it's only a 50% event.
Nobody understands or more specifically has revelation on anything more than the BLOOD. To forgive sins.
Doesn't matter how charismatic your church is, or how High episcopalean.....this is equally true of Both.
BUT THIS IS NOT CHRISTIANITY.
Or if you are a Free Believer, you reverse the concept and say IT IS CHRISTIANITY, BUT NOT THE WAY OF CHRIST.
I couldn't care a fat fig about Free Believerisms or denominationalisms
IT IS WHAT IS TRUE IN OUR HEARTS BY THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD that counts
What I am saying is if you only have one goat, you are condemning the whole of the rest of your Heavenly Tabernacle experience to one limp what Paul would call "menstrual cloth". Rubbish. Dung. Horsepooh.
Why is this relevant? Well you get this happening. You get a Heidi Venie and a Chris Welch being enticed away from true Spirit relationship and outpouring of private intimacy and fresh songs, and you find our" still alive goat" rearing up wanting a bit of recognition and control and stardom.....and hooking into the goat of the pastor /leader group who know they can put their feet up and let the muzos (musicians) entertain the crowd, and already half the service is taken up!!! MAGIC. So what I am saying about Heidi and myself, and a gazillion others is it was SYMBIOTIC this system failure. We can blame others....BUT WE BOUGHT INTO IT.
So what should happen?
It is described below, but let's take bits in slow motion.
The first goat is the absolute, complete for all time forgiveness of what we did, and what we may be doing now, and what we will ever do that is offensive to God. It's a complete death of one whole goat. At the entrance. The first thing you do as a Christian. Sin question . Settled.
The next problem for God is, without resurrecting the first goat, how do you get over that the MAN OF SIN, the SIN PRINCIPLE, the INDWELLING BIAS to SIN, is left behind in hell, by a now empty Body of Jesus after the death on the Cross, with its spirit container opened up, and emptied out in the manner of a rubbish lorry at a waste site, municiipal site......how do you get that over to folk in the middle of a wilderness? Aha!
A second goat. This goat IS NOT to repeat the idea of sins being cast as far as the oceans away from you. You Pentecostals got that wrong.
No this is HUGE! This is what makes Church work! This is what makes Jews even want to come within smelling distance of the tragedy known as Christian Church. This second goat, represents the UTTER annhilation of your sin spirit at your spirit centre. You are a container for spirit, and you have a soul and a body. Your soul and your body have to catch up with what just happened.
But one thing that just happened, is that for the First time in history a set of people larger than ones or twos got themselves thoroughly INITIATED INTO THE NEW COVENANT. Yes for the FIRST TIME. IN every nation that you are reading this.
Not like the Episcopalean church that only talk about the New Covenant, but wouldn't recognise it if the stadium lights were full on. They run this warmed up Jewish affair that neither Jews recognise nor do those born of the Spirit.Neither good for man nor beast.
The Holy Spirit orientated churches wouldn't recognise the New Covenant either, because it has no goat running around tiring out the congregations to the point of breakdown. The charismatic movement needed goats to make it work.
No. I'm announcing something completely radical here. A completely different form of Christianity, which Norman Grubb believed for on his deathbed at 97 or so,15 yearsago.His last of nearly a century of realised successful intercessions.
more Sylvia Pearce details on this subject, but less goats!
http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2010/06/two-deliverances-available-at-cross-by.html
+++++++++++++++++
The Two Goats picture in the OT Tabernacle- to South African Rosie The scapegoat idea in trad. Circles if it is talked about at all is vaguely referred to as another image of forgiveness.God had a real problem with this one as an image and it was the Nearest way He could explain the two aspects of Jesus death without resurrecting the first goat,which would have been tricky every day in the tabernacle don't you think?
On my blog is a great piece by Sylvia Pearce describing the Body and Blood aspects of Jesus death.No denomination and few others "get" anything about the Communion other than the Blood for forgiveness.The first goat goes up in smoke dying in our place,offering its blood.The second goat describes how Jesus went down into Hades or whatever for us to "lose" the sin spirit that has been passed from generation to generation,and leave it at the lost property door of hellWhen Jesus was RAISED bodily,it was the Holy Spirit who raised Him, but even more incredible WE WERE RAISED IN HIM .So since the second goat at the very entrance to Gods house,I am not only forgiven,MY CENTRAL ME Has changed from Satan or Sin spirit- I to Christ-I.
The 2nd goat means it is NOT I (the former diseased spirit) that live it is (a completely different )Christ fused I that live,and the life I live now I live by the power of the FAITH OF (lit. Greek) Christ.So the communion for us is a much much much greater celebration than anyone could have ever imagined.It is both the Blood forgiveness and the Body death replacement of me totally....well my spirit. My heart mind and will and body have to spend a time readjusting to the new reality!!!!
For me,the issue in the church today IS NOT to go out and form a FREE BELIEVERS group,tho I quite understand it.It is NOT to post articles on KUNDULINI(someone today on FB) and familiar spirits,tho you can if you want....the issue is so simple...it is that most of the people in churches today haven't the first clue about what Jesus has done for them in being their 2nd goat.Get that right,no more parachurch FREE believers,No more Kundilini....Only believers 100% clear on their latest IDENTITY!!!!!the rest is totally old fashioned and since the CROSS past its sell by date!!!
LikeUnlike · Comment · Share · DeleteMikkel Thomsen, Evke Sambul Tampi Silalahi and Evg Salvo Colicchia II like this.
Paul Noble Interesting must get together and have a chat.
05 November at 16:53 · LikeUnlikeEvke Sambul Tampi Silalahi Thank for the sharing n prayer from you my brother with the LORD CHRIST.You is my brother is the good n the best for me n to the LORD.It's true if afriend loves at all times,and a brother is born for adversity.We will rejoice in thy salvation n in the name of our GOD we will set up (our) banners,the GOD fulfil all thy petitions.JESUS CHRIST bless U n Ur family always.
05 November at 22:11 via Facebook Mobile · LikeUnlikeChris Welch Never feel quite worthy of your comments Evke,but in Christ I can be confident.Bless all of you there!!!
05 November at 23:28 via Facebook Mobile · LikeUnlike · 1 person
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Tuesday, 2 November 2010
Darin Hufford talks to worship leader Heidi Venie
Click photo for Part 1
Darin and Robert talk to Darin’s friend Heidi Venie from Alaska. Heidi’s an ex-worship leader who left the institutional world almost one year ago.
Click for Part 2
She discusses her path in the wild and how God is healing her from spiritual abuse. Heidi represents thousands of ex-worship leaders who decided to live in the wild rather than succumb to a system that promotes performance over authentic worship.Heidi has a unique perspective on the heart of God. She isn’t a person who bought into the teachings of organized religion and had to relearn God’s heart when she got out. Heidi knew the truth about God’s heart long before she left church. She has a wonderful husband and two beautiful children. You’ll enjoy her heart in this conversation.
Click for Part 3
Darin and Heidi discuss the last two podcast shows and the reaction of some of her old church members to it. People took it personally and some were quite angry. Heidi opens up about how liberating it was for her to finally stand up and tell her story. There is a power that comes upon each of us when we stand up and proclaim our story to others without regard for personal consequences. Many of us have been raised in a religious world where “talking” about certain things or just plain speaking our mind is forbidden. We have been taught to shut our mouths and go with the flow. The moment we stand up and proclaim the truth in any situation, there will be division. Truth divides. The power to bring freedom to ourselves and others rests in whether or not we are willing to speak the truth.
Click for Part 4
Darin, Aimee and Heidi Venie talk about how difficult it is for the inner part of us to embrace and live by the truth about God’s heart while the outer voice of religion speaks lies and manipulation. Heidi talks about how she learned to do just that while serving as a worship leader in a local church. This is technically part 4 of the earlier interviews Darin did with Heidi when she was in town from Alaska. This is such a great conversation that is beneficial to both Free Believers and people who are seeking truth. Learning to listen to and trust our heart over our head is a life long assignment for everyone of us.
Comments from page 3 of FBN podcast site
Heidi, I have the utmost respect for you! It is so important that those of us who have been there, or are there know that we are not alone. Thank you so much for putting yourself out there, taking the risk to share your heart and set others free.
Ringtales
Sep 09, 2010yep, i still get the "the service was AWESOME!" adverts, yaaaaaaaaaawn! been there done that! literally got the program over and over and over again, i KNOW how much of it is bogus, sheer imprisoning religion Heidi, bless the gentle Beauty of your heart, the enduring Kindness of your soul, you have strengthened my Hope this morning. Thanks Darin.
Warren Aldrich
Sep 09, 2010Heidi, I cried when you were talking about your abuse by that church and losing your child and not being cared for by your husband and church. It pisses me off that you were not taken care of, and you put it well when you describe it as "rape." No wonder this is still raw to you. To my sorrow I also abandoned my wife and kids for ministry many times and for many years working at a Bible school/church. I pray that God continue to heal the hurt and bless you with his love. Thanks for sharing so vulnerably. Warren
Carol
Sep 13, 2010It is hard listening to these podcasts because it hits so close to home. Heidi, I feel your pain and share in your desire to tell your story that will help others to freedom. My family and I are still walking through the healing process of so many yrs. of abuse that totally changed us and left us bleeding and dying. Thank you Heidi for having the courage to speak out and thank you Darin for the presenting a "safe" place for people to speak. When you receive criticisms just remember all of us out here who are finding our heart and voice from sharing this journey w/ you.
Starla
Sep 13, 2010Amiee..LOL "Gag reflex"..that is beautiful...I am sooo there with ya! hahaha loved it!
Deb C.
Sep 13, 2010Heidi I'm sure you will receive a lot of flack from your old church for doing this, but rest assure that many more people will be helped by this. When I stood up and gave my story, my pastor called me a liar and the people in my church acted like I was a pagan satan worshipper. 6 years later most of those people have left that church and contacted me to thank me because what I did, set the pace for them. I think pastors wouldn't do half of the stuff they do if they knew for sure that people would talk. You go girl. Thanks.
L.J.
Oct 16, 2010yes, the weekly gig... I hope God has a plan of restoration from all this... thanks for this.. so much more I could say... but just don't wanna type it.. C u...
Tony
Oct 16, 2010I could so totally relate with many of the things that Heidi described; former worship leader, etc. -- many of the "performance points" were unspoken rules, observed and mimicked by others . . . i.e. you have to somewhat follow the model, even if you're different. You can't coax folks to worship, if they are not feeling it ... the "song selection" was always a pain, it had to be just perfect. There were some brilliant moments of "corporate worship or praise" but not enough.
denise
Oct 16, 2010Right on! blessings to you! it's soo awesome to hear you speak out truth!!! Rock on !!!! God is soo awesome! He loves us soooo much....we don't have to fake it...JUST be who God made us to be and no 1 else!
Amy
Oct 18, 2010Lots and lots to chew on... woow weeeee!! :) Been having the same conversations you guys with my hub.. what does it look like now? Can I share what might seem like a really silly picture? I totally dig that movie The Matrix... and more and more religion represents the Matrix to me. So my question to God has been, "Do You send people back into the Matrix, to offer the message of freedom, grace, and the Father's heart?" I wonder if there ARE those that have the grace and the love in their hearts to go and, in a sense, be freedom fighters and go in and share freedom with people that are ready for that message. I have been asking God about that one.. A person that is like a Neo or a Trinity that knows the system, but isn't a part of the system. I don't know. Just some ideas popping around in my head. In my walking this area out, I have come to a huge revelation that I am created to connect with God and people through music. I thrive in it.. I adore it... it so moves me in deep ways.
Amy
Oct 18, 2010Music IS such a powerful vehicle! And personally, I have been on the hunt for "freedom" music. Music of grace, of unconditional love, of being included and in complete relationship with God, of Christ dwelling within, and walking that out.. I have so so wanted that and been seeking that out for myself. And I think it would be so amazing for artists, and worship leaders to begin to write songs in the midst of their journeys to freedom in Christ... in the wild. How cool that would be? Aimz, I loved what you shared about that No Condemnation song being an anchor... music is so that for me too. I can listen to a particular song and it brings back floods of memories and feelings of when I first heard it, you know? Anywho, Darin, Heid, and Aimz.. you 3 have totally rattled me, and got some gears churning.. thankyou for sharing.. love you guys so much!
Amy
Oct 19, 2010P.S. Would so love love to hear from other musicians/worship leaders on this topic. I don't know anyone that is here in this space. What is God unfolding for other people in this area? Would so love to hear! :)
Aida
Oct 19, 2010I thought it was a great point that worship can be expressed in many ways and I could really relate to Darin’s comment about sermons being worship for him. Although I was never a pastor, thoughts and concepts come alive as I verbalize them so I’ve always enjoyed teaching and public speaking. Writing and music just don’t satisfy that inward desire for me and, since I rarely have face to face contact with other free believers, I always tend to feel bottled up. As a result, when I do finally get a chance to talk to someone who knows where I’m coming from, it all comes out at one time and I tend to talk non-stop. Heidi said that she didn’t know if she’s ever going to have a chance to worship as she had before and I’ve come to the same conclusion. Part of me feels very lost because I can’t worship in the way I was created and it’s possible I may never be able to. That’s still hard for me to accept but it is what it is so I do what I can even though I always feel somewhat unsatisfied.
Shannon Brown
Oct 19, 2010I wasn't a worship leader, but was the go-to person for the lastest Christian music. I would make mix cds of songs that spoke to my heart and share them with whoever wanted them in my church and elsewhere. Occasionally I would play a song that was on my heart during a service. Music was huge in my life and still is...for me it expresses what is deep in my heart that I am not able to put into words. I encourage Heidi and whoever else has it on their hearts to make music that is full of hope and freedom. This kind of music is needed! Like Heidi, as I read over things I wrote while still in religion, I find His love and freedom underneath the confusion and despair. My heart knew there had to be something more to this life with Him, but I couldn't find it where I was at. Not until I left it all behind, did I find who He really is. It has been very healing to hear your story Heidi...thank you so much for sharing it.
If this interview speaks to you please use the comments section below.
Darin and Robert talk to Darin’s friend Heidi Venie from Alaska. Heidi’s an ex-worship leader who left the institutional world almost one year ago.
Click for Part 2
She discusses her path in the wild and how God is healing her from spiritual abuse. Heidi represents thousands of ex-worship leaders who decided to live in the wild rather than succumb to a system that promotes performance over authentic worship.Heidi has a unique perspective on the heart of God. She isn’t a person who bought into the teachings of organized religion and had to relearn God’s heart when she got out. Heidi knew the truth about God’s heart long before she left church. She has a wonderful husband and two beautiful children. You’ll enjoy her heart in this conversation.
Click for Part 3
Darin and Heidi discuss the last two podcast shows and the reaction of some of her old church members to it. People took it personally and some were quite angry. Heidi opens up about how liberating it was for her to finally stand up and tell her story. There is a power that comes upon each of us when we stand up and proclaim our story to others without regard for personal consequences. Many of us have been raised in a religious world where “talking” about certain things or just plain speaking our mind is forbidden. We have been taught to shut our mouths and go with the flow. The moment we stand up and proclaim the truth in any situation, there will be division. Truth divides. The power to bring freedom to ourselves and others rests in whether or not we are willing to speak the truth.
Click for Part 4
Darin, Aimee and Heidi Venie talk about how difficult it is for the inner part of us to embrace and live by the truth about God’s heart while the outer voice of religion speaks lies and manipulation. Heidi talks about how she learned to do just that while serving as a worship leader in a local church. This is technically part 4 of the earlier interviews Darin did with Heidi when she was in town from Alaska. This is such a great conversation that is beneficial to both Free Believers and people who are seeking truth. Learning to listen to and trust our heart over our head is a life long assignment for everyone of us. Comments from page 3 of FBN podcast site
Heidi, I have the utmost respect for you! It is so important that those of us who have been there, or are there know that we are not alone. Thank you so much for putting yourself out there, taking the risk to share your heart and set others free.
Ringtales
Sep 09, 2010yep, i still get the "the service was AWESOME!" adverts, yaaaaaaaaaawn! been there done that! literally got the program over and over and over again, i KNOW how much of it is bogus, sheer imprisoning religion Heidi, bless the gentle Beauty of your heart, the enduring Kindness of your soul, you have strengthened my Hope this morning. Thanks Darin.
Warren Aldrich
Sep 09, 2010Heidi, I cried when you were talking about your abuse by that church and losing your child and not being cared for by your husband and church. It pisses me off that you were not taken care of, and you put it well when you describe it as "rape." No wonder this is still raw to you. To my sorrow I also abandoned my wife and kids for ministry many times and for many years working at a Bible school/church. I pray that God continue to heal the hurt and bless you with his love. Thanks for sharing so vulnerably. Warren
Carol
Sep 13, 2010It is hard listening to these podcasts because it hits so close to home. Heidi, I feel your pain and share in your desire to tell your story that will help others to freedom. My family and I are still walking through the healing process of so many yrs. of abuse that totally changed us and left us bleeding and dying. Thank you Heidi for having the courage to speak out and thank you Darin for the presenting a "safe" place for people to speak. When you receive criticisms just remember all of us out here who are finding our heart and voice from sharing this journey w/ you.
Starla
Sep 13, 2010Amiee..LOL "Gag reflex"..that is beautiful...I am sooo there with ya! hahaha loved it!
Deb C.
Sep 13, 2010Heidi I'm sure you will receive a lot of flack from your old church for doing this, but rest assure that many more people will be helped by this. When I stood up and gave my story, my pastor called me a liar and the people in my church acted like I was a pagan satan worshipper. 6 years later most of those people have left that church and contacted me to thank me because what I did, set the pace for them. I think pastors wouldn't do half of the stuff they do if they knew for sure that people would talk. You go girl. Thanks.
L.J.
Oct 16, 2010yes, the weekly gig... I hope God has a plan of restoration from all this... thanks for this.. so much more I could say... but just don't wanna type it.. C u...
Tony
Oct 16, 2010I could so totally relate with many of the things that Heidi described; former worship leader, etc. -- many of the "performance points" were unspoken rules, observed and mimicked by others . . . i.e. you have to somewhat follow the model, even if you're different. You can't coax folks to worship, if they are not feeling it ... the "song selection" was always a pain, it had to be just perfect. There were some brilliant moments of "corporate worship or praise" but not enough.
denise
Oct 16, 2010Right on! blessings to you! it's soo awesome to hear you speak out truth!!! Rock on !!!! God is soo awesome! He loves us soooo much....we don't have to fake it...JUST be who God made us to be and no 1 else!
Amy
Oct 18, 2010Lots and lots to chew on... woow weeeee!! :) Been having the same conversations you guys with my hub.. what does it look like now? Can I share what might seem like a really silly picture? I totally dig that movie The Matrix... and more and more religion represents the Matrix to me. So my question to God has been, "Do You send people back into the Matrix, to offer the message of freedom, grace, and the Father's heart?" I wonder if there ARE those that have the grace and the love in their hearts to go and, in a sense, be freedom fighters and go in and share freedom with people that are ready for that message. I have been asking God about that one.. A person that is like a Neo or a Trinity that knows the system, but isn't a part of the system. I don't know. Just some ideas popping around in my head. In my walking this area out, I have come to a huge revelation that I am created to connect with God and people through music. I thrive in it.. I adore it... it so moves me in deep ways.
Amy
Oct 18, 2010Music IS such a powerful vehicle! And personally, I have been on the hunt for "freedom" music. Music of grace, of unconditional love, of being included and in complete relationship with God, of Christ dwelling within, and walking that out.. I have so so wanted that and been seeking that out for myself. And I think it would be so amazing for artists, and worship leaders to begin to write songs in the midst of their journeys to freedom in Christ... in the wild. How cool that would be? Aimz, I loved what you shared about that No Condemnation song being an anchor... music is so that for me too. I can listen to a particular song and it brings back floods of memories and feelings of when I first heard it, you know? Anywho, Darin, Heid, and Aimz.. you 3 have totally rattled me, and got some gears churning.. thankyou for sharing.. love you guys so much!
Amy
Oct 19, 2010P.S. Would so love love to hear from other musicians/worship leaders on this topic. I don't know anyone that is here in this space. What is God unfolding for other people in this area? Would so love to hear! :)
Aida
Oct 19, 2010I thought it was a great point that worship can be expressed in many ways and I could really relate to Darin’s comment about sermons being worship for him. Although I was never a pastor, thoughts and concepts come alive as I verbalize them so I’ve always enjoyed teaching and public speaking. Writing and music just don’t satisfy that inward desire for me and, since I rarely have face to face contact with other free believers, I always tend to feel bottled up. As a result, when I do finally get a chance to talk to someone who knows where I’m coming from, it all comes out at one time and I tend to talk non-stop. Heidi said that she didn’t know if she’s ever going to have a chance to worship as she had before and I’ve come to the same conclusion. Part of me feels very lost because I can’t worship in the way I was created and it’s possible I may never be able to. That’s still hard for me to accept but it is what it is so I do what I can even though I always feel somewhat unsatisfied.
Shannon Brown
Oct 19, 2010I wasn't a worship leader, but was the go-to person for the lastest Christian music. I would make mix cds of songs that spoke to my heart and share them with whoever wanted them in my church and elsewhere. Occasionally I would play a song that was on my heart during a service. Music was huge in my life and still is...for me it expresses what is deep in my heart that I am not able to put into words. I encourage Heidi and whoever else has it on their hearts to make music that is full of hope and freedom. This kind of music is needed! Like Heidi, as I read over things I wrote while still in religion, I find His love and freedom underneath the confusion and despair. My heart knew there had to be something more to this life with Him, but I couldn't find it where I was at. Not until I left it all behind, did I find who He really is. It has been very healing to hear your story Heidi...thank you so much for sharing it.
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