Comment on Tale of Two Trees

Comment on Tale of two trees by eat the word left today... very grateful...thanks. As it is quite old how did you find it?
A lot of people are referring to Genesis 3 on Facebook at the mo.It's like something just shifted in the last few months.



Very interesting blog. I got to thinking about the statement: "The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil contains both the knowledge of good as well as the knowledge of evil. Knowing good is not the equivalent of doing good. Good is a life form". Prior to the fall man already knew the life form that is good (for God walked in the garden with Adam and Eve and fellowshipped with them). So, when they ate of the tree what they also acquired was not just knowledge of evil behaviour but knowledge of the one who became evil, i.e. the devil. And they made his acquaintance. And they lived his life which led to death.

Cracking the Packer-Jersak Binary code

How the false concept of Dualism keeps us locked in stalemate for centuries.


Most struggles on this earth are left-brain antler locks.

The Devil who first got us to live Dalek-like, basing our entire existence and foundation on the left-brain, instead of living from a heart position of fluidity and trust, then provides each different party with the necessary material to get us all steamed up .
In the continuation of the Tuning series we will be looking how we tune with each other and construct the first octave, moving from one note to the first 12. But the first thing we need to establish is the most important Biblical principle which we learned in the second level, after being baptised in the Spirit:

Unity is established like this.In the Spirit first. "Maintain the Unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace....until you reach the unity of the faith."

Unity is never begun in the left-brain. Unity is a Spirit. We do not have it. Unity has us.Unity is asking us to join it. Unity is the family atmosphere of the Godhead. The three in one God. The Father. The Son.The Holy Spirit. And now, as Frank Viola's book from Eternity to Here describes so wonderfully, their arms are outstretched for us, the Bride, to share this with us.The book The Shack covers similar ground.

So if the devil can get us hooked into left-brain one sided positions of the glorious huge panoply that is Truth, he has got us!

The reality is that we don't have truth either. We can have truths. But really it is the amount Truth has us.In our innermost parts.

Before John Poole disappeared off the scene, just beforehand he was preaching a key message in the Kansas City Shepherd's Conference 1975.(The same conference that Ern Baxter shared the door opening word for a generation of us entitled "Thy Kingdom Come".)
John's theme was Unity. He said we have to pray the prayer of David. "Unite my heart to fear Your Name" Psalm 51.

It is useless to attempt a Christian unity if each individual is still divided within themselves.!!

Although I cannot match the articulation of a Packer or a Jersak, I thought it would be good practice to try. All I know in my spirit is both venerable guys are roaming around the same mountain, but without the one key that Norman Grubb has provided along with other "pressers into the truth" like Jacob Boehme, Madame Guyon and a handful of others, these guys could be nose to nose for a while to come.

Like Calvinism and Armenianism, (God's sovereignty v. our Choosing) this is another humdinger. If like Brad you have been recently blitzed by a revelation of how much the Father's heart is for ALL MANKIND, and personally for Brad himself and each of us in turn as individuals, you have to question what is going on in the idea of "Penal substitution?"

This angry voice from heaven "Convert or I'll bash you in" theology needs addressing. Because like the other chestnut for atheists "If the gospel is true, how come the Church has been and still is such rubbish, and a perpetrator of so much evil?", both have been used by the devil himself to deter so many from knowing the truth. So with an honest heart Brad wants to get to the bottom of it all, to really present God as He wishes to be known. The revelation has come first...he now wishes to articulate it with clarity.

Well, my heading refers to the fact that a dual system , so for the heading I changed that to binary, - a dual system where it is God and a separate self-powered me warps the whole system and forever puts people on either side of a chasm. Exactly the same occurs with Armenianism versus Calvinism.

It's worth stressing this point....if you put 20 believers of one persuasion together in a room with another 20 believers, while they remain in the left-brain....YOU SIMPLY HAVE NO MEETING.
Yet as they all focus on God, maybe singing " Turn Your Eyes onto Jesus,Look Full into His wonderful face, And the things of Earth will grow strangely dim, In the Light of His wonder and Grace."....About 10 minutes in, the Presence of the Lord will be amongst them. He will be speaking to and through them, and whether or not they get their full theological answer that week, they will all know they have been with the Lord of glory, and some element will be written across their faces.

For me this false dualism reached its zenith at the high point of the second level, the charismatic movement around 1990 in the title of Benny Hinn's book "Good Morning Holy Spirit". He didn't mean to do wrong. Anymore than Frank Sinatra meant for a 1000 sermons to be preached on him singing "I did it my way". Frank actually meant I did it according to my own style that God gave me when He made me. Benny really does say "Good morning Holy Spirit" just as many of us pray to a transcendent God. But what the book represents to me is the farthest point you can go, still believing you are "an independent self". You and the Holy Spirit. Whereas the whole reason why the 3rd level is unique is that God takes you back to Genesis to where the whole thing went wrong, so each individual can begin to rebuild his or her life again, as Christ as them.
Then onto this foundation He can bring a fresh anointing of the Holy Spirit, and the Kingdom winds of the 2 winds prophecy** can really begin to blow. **post bottom

This Genesis rediscovery leads to a fresh understanding of theology which joins many who are currently divided. Actually in this new level there will be a whole compound explosion of glory as people begin to find each other again. Bad news for the devil!
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

The recent acceleration in the revelation of God the Father
has forced Brad Jersak to seriously question the concept of Penal Substitution.
This is the post and many comments, below is my reply.http://clarionjournal.typepad.com/clarion_journal_of_spirit/2007/09/methinks-he-bud.html#more
http://www.theocentric.com/theology/gospel/cosmic_gospel.html is an interesting handling of universalism, balanced with individual response...but that is not the current discussion.

Here in a town called Liss,Hampshire UK a L'Abri (Francis Schaeffer) church has split into three over different variations of Calvinism and Armenianism. This type of debate has not been part of my Christian life. I was staggered to hear these things, two hundred years after the ping pong match between Whitfield and Wesley.I am grateful that the above discussions on this blog are carried out in a considerably less acrid manner.There are historic moments in our history which defy complete human analysis. Books and books have been written on the history of the Reformation: Its political and cultural effects.The reasons why Martin Luther's theses should have caused such a seismic shift from what was happening before. However we trace the origins of the change through to the aftermath, Christians would largely agree that something Divine was going on. A divine invasion into our natural order of things. A step change in our history.People are divided about whether the Azusa Street Revival was yet another step change. Certainly, in terms of numerical increase in the church worldwide,and therefore in terms of the corresponding cultural changes, caused by conversions numbering millions, Pentecostal and charismatic influences have had a much bigger effect than are currently acknowledged in universities. In the words of Anita Roddick of Body Shop: If you think education is expensive, try ignorance! Or if you think the church is small now, how do you think it would have been without the Pentecostal additions.Something new happened in the eighties and nineties as has been alluded to by Brad. A much greater revelation of God as Father is now sweeping the Church.This I believe is only the opening of the flower which awaits its full bloom. If my blog is accurate then what seems only to be a gentle murmur of considerably less import than the rush of Pentecostalism, is actually the still distant rumble of an imminent storm that will change history forever.There is a third level of revelation arriving which renders much of our present questionings totally mute. Questioning, debating, seeking out matters is the glory of kings. Our royal divine task here on earth.But there comes a time when you have sung " Blowing in the Wind" for 50 years, and played Moody Blues "Question" from "A Question of Balance" until the LP,cassette,CD now mp3 ceases to amuse, but now appears childish. Left-brain thinking for left-brain thinking's sake.A time when you just have to say "Bono...I have found what I am looking for and it is like this."Counter-intuitively, John Crowder states in his book " Miracle Workers, Reformers, and New Mystics" that each time he has laid down his conscious reasoning powers at the Cross, far from losing anything,he finds it is returned in greater measure, if anything with less looping, less short-circuiting around old thought patterns.The first commandment was always love the Lord first with all your heart,second with all your soul then third with all your mind.Somehow the order is crucial in the next step we are all about to take together. In fact it always was so, but somehow in these immediate days we are actually going to take this order to heart. And because we never did, we have spent far too long in the questioning stages. The truth is that both Packer's position and Brad's posits are simultaneously true.Armenianism also, is simultaneously as true as Calvinism.

part2This is how it works.While there existed a false dualism between the Creator and the creature, there was never an end to both dilemmas.But this dualism is false.It was inherited in the Fall.In Genesis 3:5 when the devil sold us a series of con trick lies the first one was that the Father was no good. He was as Ern Baxter said "holding out on us". And the remedy, the quick fix, was to become like Godknowing both good and evilmaking our own choicesas though we were beings in our own right.A lie being perpetuated even up to this present day by evangelical atheists Richard Dawkins and Brian Eno.We could however never exist as beings in our own right...for the scripture cannot be broken which saysIn Him we live and move and have our being.What evangelicals and Watchman Nee term conveniently as "soul power" is a complete fiction. When God stooped over us to breathe into Adam and he became a living soul, there was never any division that meant the soul had its own power. It needed spirit to drive it, and through the soul out to the body.As Ern Baxter memorably described in "Thy Kingdom Come", when we went as sheep each one to our own way...it actually was not completely true, as the devil subtly moved in unseen to become the new spirit operator.And this was a permanent change, throughout generations by inheritance.We were only ever containers for one spirit deity or the other, either the One true God, or the False usurping god, who actually is no god, but only a powerful angel.And it was only to be new birth that would exorcise permanently this false deity, and by it we would become Christ in our individual forms. Again so fused into our spirit and soul, then body, that people really would mistake us for being no different, just as they refused to believe that Jesus in His earthly form, having laid aside His own personal weight of glory and substance, to become only a vessel for the Father here on earth, was also regarded by unbelievers as being no different.This was true of those who knew Him best, His own brothers and sisters.You see if the Bible is true and we are only branches to His whole vine, (not just the trunk!). If we are just containers and vessels containing at one time the Devil, now by new birth Christ, this has ramifications both for the discussions on this post and for Armenianism versus Calvinism.When Satan rebelled he became the first and permanent child of wrath. This was such a terrible state of affairs, that when God was seeking brethren, and a Bride for His Son, He determined that they could never again be chosen from a state as permanent in its outcome as heaven. You rebel in heaven, and the effects are devastatingly permanent.Therefore an environment had to be created where failure was less permanent. You could only suffer a temporary death, not a permanent death like that of the angels. It is said that hell was not made for humans, unless we choose to go there.Here is the clever bit. The double blinder that God the Father has pulled.The wrath spirit that permanently rests on the Devil, who made his permanent and fixed choice to set himself against God...yet that has no intrinsic home in God's character, who is only love...this wrath spirit that mankind mistakenly chose when they chose this "false independent position" needed flushing away in a permanent bin.So Packer is right. God is permanently wrathful against this spirit that began its rebellion in heaven....but Brad is right because God the Father is looking down only in love on the human containers who were daft enough to fall for the Devil's con trick. What humans feel as wrath is God's ire at the inherited spirit of the devil that resides in every human container that has not asked Jesus in to their heart in order to drive it out.So yes we have a problem with condemnation.But not the problem we think we have.Rather than fess up to our false independence position which is really Satan in our members, we mope around in this needless mire of condemnation.

Part of the "false indepence" lie is to ascribe every problem to us. In an inverse kind of way it makes us look big. But it is utter balderdash.Jesus wants us to take the cross in all seriousness, have a total blood transfusion, and a body transfusion, in the sense that His own Body and Blood were used as trash containers to ferry all our Devil containing existences down to hell with Him, and to rise in complete victory, in order to enter into our containers as us. As our personalities. As our bodies.Looking to many as though nothing at all has happened. But those who are born again know something did happen. On their insides.That makes them totally different.So yes, the Father was totally angry. But not at the container. Only at the devilish spirit in the container. And as long as we remained containers for it, we were judged already, Jesus said. But He who believes on the Son is immediately not condemned.John3:18.A Calvinist and Armenian will battle on for millennia as long as they both fight their left-brain corners, but also cling onto their dual existence falsehoods, which are all part of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This notion that I could ever have a separate existence in my own right.Somehow now fused to Christ, my will is enfolded into His will. Indeed I am called by that very will. I am pulled by it like a magnet...but like love itself to a lover is drawn, it is not a concept that violates my integrity, but rather is warm and wonderful.Now as I am moved to speak a Word of faith, is it Him or is it me?As I do what he did for me: go to the Cross for others, to fill out what is lacking in His own sufferings. Is it Him or is it me?All this renders to nought hours and hours of fruitless discussion about faith, about will, about penal substitution.Instead we see the full import of how we, the whole Body of Christ on Earth become a display to principalities and powers...again making a show of them openly.Why. Because in the midst of glory indescribable, one worship leader rose up and took possibly a third of heaven's angels with him.Into rebellion.But we, in a cold harsh environment, surrounded by the devil's works and hurt and harm, choose to rise up instead and become containers for God's glory, when all is dark. This is the very fist that God raises towards the enemy in utter triumph crying "See! See! Behold what I have achieved through My outstretched arm. A people who know what it is to be delivered. Who in darkness have chosen Me, and whose glory far outsurpasses anything you ever had."see God's wrath chapter here:http://www.unionlife.org/yesIam#CH7
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
reply on Facebook Group Theology Thoughts where also posted

Wow...not quite sure how to respond to this paradigm shift... but I like it :-) Thanks for putting this down. I feel closer to God for reading it. Julian Roath group founder.

The Tree and The River and www.river-camp.co.uk

The Tree and the River

While I was pausing from this blog earlier this month, I was writing on other's blogs and also commenting on Facebook. Lydia of a Joy to be me wrote this great Norman Grubb statement:
"The usual thing we say when a crisis hits us is, “God permitted it”. That means that God is up there and we are underneath. But God isn’t up there at all! He is within. I never lift my eyes one single time to heaven to try to find Him up there, do you? I don’t waste my breath, my sight, or anything else. Why should I waste my time trying to get a Person to come down when He lives within me? I can see Him where He is, in a common bit of human flesh redeemed in His precious blood, packed full of the Holy Spirit.

This makes my whole attitude to life different. Once I recognize that God is joined as one with me, I no longer try to find him or get him to come and rescue me." ~ Norman Grubb
"Friends, the cross is not the objective. Union is the objective. The cross is the gateway. It’s not the end. The Christ is the end and He is joined to me forever and I joined to Him forever." ~ Norman Grubb

This my reply:

Can I just share my honest feelings here? When I first encountered Norman's group and they were sharing along these lines, I had been in a church (Emsworth) where He had Presenced us in some powerful ways...along the line of some outstanding miraculous occurrences in and amongst worship and prayer together in meetings.So I wasn't going to backtrack on any of this. Rather I wanted to "fill out" what I already knew about approaching God in a corporate setting, with much more revelation of how His life works in in and around us all day long.The fact remains that Norman's group were so much on this side of things that their corporate worship was ...well to say the least....pretty non-existant. A few 1940s timewarp Anglican campstyle songs at best, with great Norman lyrics. As a published songster of the 80s this all seemed pretty naff.While I've been away, I've been ploughing further through Frank Viola's From Eternity to Here and I've got to the bit where he is describing God's need for a home, and comparing the Garden of Eden with Revelation, in particular The Tree of Life and The River of Life.And it was like a light went on again!!! It's like this.In God there is a dry Life and wet Life, side by side. There is a Tree and there is a River.The Tree always was the inworked Life of God. The Cross has become our tree which annhihilates the Old, and but also at the same time gives us access to God's very own imperishable Life.Christ in our form. Him living His Life as us.But there is a wet life as well! And in all our internal wranglings over the true meaning of Romans and what God has done for us, we must not go back on the new things that God has been bringing into His Body again particularly in the last 100 years, which is more akin to the manifestation before people's very eyes of the River of God. When you put believing believer's in a room together, all focussed and moving from and in their Saviour, in love and praise and faith and victory, and declaration.... well things get very wet indeed!As I've said to Lydia and Shawna several times, it seems like up to now you get either Spirit or Word.Either Tree or River. Either Exchanged Life or River Life of the experience of the outpoured Spirit.Well in 1950 something changed. And as well as the healing revival which broke out at this time, there was also this other man- this American missionary in Argentina, who being so discouraged by not making any headway stubbornly refused to do another thing until he had met God. This was Ed Miller (book Thy God Reigneth, see book section in my blog).He was one of the first men, like Norman, to press through in a rendering of the Psalm 24 verse of scripture...to seek the Face of the God of Jacob...this generation who are to seek God's Presence as did Jacob wrestling at Peniel, where he had his name changed.The charismatic Jacob, who could faith in speckled sheep and striped sheep, was finally irreparably damaged...and for the rest of history there has existed an ISRAEL. Which is the final God version 3.0 of Man connecting with His Father. Abraham v1.0, Isaac v2.0 then Jacob,now Israel v3.0!!But what Ed Miller uncovered, and through a kind of quiet backdoor, this has now seeped right through the Body....was a new understanding of WET LIFE...of how the RIVER functions in practice. This is the understanding of how our Key of David meetings work...and to a greater and greater extent since Florida, how our main meetings now work.(See the links in This is Huuuuuge) It is certainly how Rob Rufus seeks to move, especially when he introduces people like Josh Mills. It is also how Rolland and Heidi Baker seek to move in their meetings.The tabernacle is both a picture for us of how spiritual Life manifests...both in Tree format and in River format. In Spirit and in Word. But all in Truth!!There's a brazen altar (dry) and a Laver (wet) there's the shewbread (dry) and the oil and lampstand(wet) and there's the hidden manna inside the Ark of the Covenant (dry) and the real Presence of God overhead between the Cherubim on top of the Ark (very definitely wet).For centuries the devil has divided the wet from the dry, Tree huggers, from the River splashers. And in the same way that a battery does not work if the dry plates are not immersed in the wet acid...we've had a representation of Christ in the earth that is pretty poor and unconvincing. Neither the plates nor the acid were wrong....but they need to be in proximity to work!!!!Norman Grubb needs to be right next to Rolland and Heidi Baker. Rob Rufus needs to be right up against Paul Anderson Walsh!!So do you understand where I am coming from?And we know this stuff is powerful because in the 50s straight after Ed Miller's encounter, evangelist Tommy Hicks stormed into Peron’s office, prayed for his family, and out of that boldness was then given the freedom of every major stadium in Argentina....which were each piled high with crutches of those healed. And in a few short years Argentina went from being mostly Catholic to much nearer 50-50 Protestant and Catholic.But the behind the scenes transactions had been done as Ed sought the face of the Lord and prevailed.
July 26, 2009 10:14 PM

RiverCamp 2009

River Camp 2009 begins this Friday through Monday.Day tickets are still available on the gate I believe. For more details click on the side link section of this blog.

RiverCamp is not beside a literal river. It is on a hilltop at Lenchworth near Evesham.The grounds have been used for decades as a healing centre, though really all they are is farmer's fields. Remember that is where the angels showed up to announce the birth of Jesus. And it was in Harrogate Cow Sheds that God literally birthed the new move in the UK in the Dales Bible Weeks 1976 and after.

Any blogreaders in the UK can come to our caravan and make themselves known. Havant Church are closing down for the weekend and as many as can make it are camping together up there, or the woossy, staying in Evesham bed and breakfasts.

Corporate worship is outstanding. Messages are key, cutting edge stuff, as well as reports about what is going on worldwide. And the general fellowship that happens all round the campsite is , as bloggers have found both in Atlanta and Hong Kong, as key as anything anywhere.Unlike other large conferences, there is really little agenda. That is why we like it. It's a bit like key of David. It's about God. It's about finding the flow about how He wants to relate to His people.

And the children's meetings...far from being also ran "babysitting" meetings...NOPE...some of them are better in activity, and cutting edge God stuff than the main meetings.CDs of the worship and messages are always available after the event.

Becca's quote

I conclude with Becca's quote at the top.You would have thought the Tree Experience and the River Experience would be a given in the Body of Christ as she has written.

Why then is Smith Wiggleworth's (almost parting) 1940s prophecy so significant: that in the last great move of God there would be a twinning together of Spirit and Word. The reason it is so significant is that up until the time of writing this blog in the last one and a half years...and let this blog be a tool towards it...

There is a very real split right through the worldwide manifestBody of Christ over this precise issue. When the Florida Outpouring was ongoing I could sense the first real signs of a marriage between the two just waiting in the wings to appear and this prompted the Parable of the Shekinah Construction Company

As I've written time and again: You get networks that preach who we are in Christ. Faithful Word preaching. But they have no clue how to approach God corporately and experience the manifest outpoured Presence of God. Or you get the most incredible manifestations of gifts and worship, but absolutely no concept that it is not a network that is being built around a group of charismatic men, it's about what Jesus called a "laying of the axe to the root"...and this did not mean Jewish worship and the Old Covenant...the root means : untying the knot where the knot first occurred in Genesis 3. And the full clarity of how Jesus did this has come through faithful servants such as Norman Grubb, that at the time of writing the larger Body of Christ are deaf to.

A Tale of Two Trees - Frank Viola

For a year and a half since I first wrote on Dan's blog I have felt to push this seemingly unique door about Christ living His life as us. I have been totally one-tracked about this. Nobody else I could see was doing it. For me this is the Key to getting your own life to work.....by changing your believing and lining it up with the Word. This is why this blog is called what it is. But we need all the other blogs which are painting the full-orbed picture of Christ, of the work of the Holy Spirit, of churches and individuals reaching out to change their environments, the whole thing......

Yesterday I put up on Facebook the words spoken by Dr SM Lockbridge about Christ Himself. Who He is .

I watch preachers getting tangled up with whether we are Christ or not. It's funny. It's just like people trying to describe a bucket being dropped into the sea and filling with sea water. So you are calling the water in the bucket the sea. Yup. Why?It has the sea in. So are you saying that's the sea! Yup. But not the whole sea.That's giant! Now let's get this straight, you're calling that water in the bucket sea? Yup. Because that's what it is! But that's only water! Nope. It's not just any water. It's the sea! But not the whole sea!......and so on and so on.

I explained this once when I began the blog, some of you need to read it again. It will make more sense now.

We are branches. Christ is the vine. But a trunk is the vine. The branches are the vine. They're all the vine. They are all vine-natured! Preachers have such a hard time with this.



All this preamble to say I am getting more relaxed. Why? Other people are saying this stuff.

I read this tonight in Frank Viola's "From Eternity To Here."



A Tale of Two Trees
Dietrich Bonhoeffer rightly pointed out that the knowledge of good and evil is the root of all religious and ethical systems. Jesus Christ, however, did not come to give us a new ethic. He came to give us a new life (John 10:10; Gal. 2:20; Col. 3:4; 1 John 5:11-12).
As a Christian, you have been given God's untreated life. As such, you are not called to live by a "Christian" code of ethics. Instead, you are called to live by God's life. That life possesses divine impulses, instincts, promptings, senses, and tendencies. Yielding to them is the secret of growing up into the Head, who is Christ (Eph. 4:15). When a group of people lives by the Lord's life, the character of Jesus begins to take shape within them (Gal. 4:19).

To quote Bonhoeffer, "Jesus calls men, not to a new religion, but to life." And that life is divine life. It is the "abundant life" that Christ talked about while He was on earth (John 10:10). By contrast, to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is to govern one's life by right and wrong. It's to behave by a standard of good and evil.
The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil contains both the knowledge ofgoodas well as the knowledge of evil. Knowing good is not the equivalent of doing good. Good is a life form. Only God is good. Recall Jesus' reaction when He was addressed as "Good Teacher." He sharply replied, "'There is none good, but one, that is, God" (Matt. 19:16-17 Kjv). As for the prospect that fallen humans can do good, the verdict is clear: "There is no one who does good" (Rom. 3:12).According to Scripture, goodness is a life form. It's a Person. It is God Himself. Only God is good. Therefore, when a Christian seeks to "be good," he is eating from the wrong tree.

Questions and Answers re From Eternity To Here

As well as Frank's answers to my questions below, you can see my comments on this book, up to this point at least ,in these two posts.

http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2009/04/from-eternity-to-here-marriage-made-in.html

http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2009/05/from-mystery-of-sin-to-mystery-of-syn-v.html

1. How long did the book take to write?

Frank: I've been writing the book since 1992. Most of the book comes from spoken messages I've delivered in various conferences throughout the years, turned into a book long afterward. The actual sitting down and writing it out in its present form took about two years.

2. It certainly has the feel of something you can read out in meetings. Is that how you felt when writing it?

Frank: Yes, because the chapters were originally spoken messages I delivered, the conversational style and tone bleeds through. Personally, I've always liked reading authors who sound like they are talking to me. Watchman Nee's work is like this, because virtually all of his books were taken from transcribed messages.

We also created a free discussion guide that will help readers discuss and assimilate the content. I'm happy about that because this is not book to just read and put down. It's written in such a way that the reader will want to meditate on and digest its contents.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

OTHER BLOGS PARTICIPATING IN THE “FROM ETERNITY TO HERE” BLOG CIRCUIT
Today (June 9th), the following blogs are discussing Frank Viola’s new bestselling book “From Eternity to Here” (David C. Cook, 2009). The book just hit the May CBA Bestseller List. Some are posting Q & A with Frank; others are posting full reviews of the book. To read more reviews and order a copy at a 33% discount, go to Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Eternity-Here-Rediscovering-Ageless-Purpose/dp/1434768708/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233609867&sr=1-4
For more resources, such as downloadable audios, the free Discussion Guide, the Facebook Group page, etc. go to the official website: http://www.frometernitytohere.org/
Enjoy the reviews and the Q and A:
-----
Out of Ur - http://blog.christianitytoday.com/outofur/archives/2009/05/viola.html
Shapevine – http://www.shapevine.com/ (June newsletter)
Brian Eberly - http://www.brianeberly.com/
DashHouse.com - http://www.DashHouse.com/
Greg Boyd - http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/
Vision Advance - http://vision2advance.blogspot.com/
David Flowers - http://ddflowers.wordpress.com/
Kingdom Grace - http://kingdomgrace.wordpress.com/
Captain's Blog - http://www.captainestes.blogspot.com/
Christine Sine - http://godspace.wordpress.com/
Darin Hufford - The Free Believers Network - http://www.freebelievers.com/
Zoecarnate - http://zoecarnate.wordpress.com/
Church Planting Novice - http://www.churchplantingnovice.wordpress.com/
Staying Focused - http://kimmartinezstayingfocused.wordpress.com/
Take Your Vitamin Z - http://www.takeyourvitaminz.blogspot.com/
Jeff Goins - http://jeffgoins.myadventures.org/
Bunny Trails - http://bunny-trails.blogspot.com/
Matt Cleaver - http://mattcleaver.com/
Jason T. Berggren - http://blog.jasonberggren.com/
Simple Church - http://www.simplechurchjournal.com/
Emerging from Montana - http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
Parable Life - http://www.theparablelife.blogspot.com/
Oikos Australia - http://www.oikos.org.au/blog/
West Coast Witness - http://www.westcoastwitness.com/
Keith Giles - http://www.keith.giles.com/
Consuming Worship — http://www.consumingworship.org/
Tasha Via - http://www.tashavia.blogspot.com/
Andrew Courtright - http://www.andrewcourtright.blogspot.com/
ShowMeTheMooneys! – http://www.showmethemooneys.com/
Leaving Salem, Blog of Ronnie McBrayer - http://leavingsalem.wordpress.com/
Jason Coker - pastoralia.missionaltribe.org
From Knowledge to Wisdom - http://isthistheway.typepad.com/
Home Brewed Christianity - http://www.homebrewedchristianity.com/
Dispossessed - http://kblog.kevinjbowman.com/
Dandelion Seeds - http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.homeschoolblogger.com%2FDandelionseeds&h=c2d85ac2c4c1ec9a2360ae786e941445
David Brodsky's Blog- "Flip the tape Deck" - http://flipthetapedeck.blogspot.com/
Chaordic Journey - http://jeffrhodes.wordpress.com/
Renee Martin - http://www.reneemartinmusic.com/profiles/blog/list
Bob Kuhn - http://organicchurchnola.wordpress.com/
Living with Freaks: http://www.livingwithfreaks.com/
Real Worship - http://therealworshipleader.com/
Fervent Worship - http://ferventworship.blogspot.com/
Julie Ferwerda Blog - http://www.julieferwerda.com/ / http://www.onemillionarrows.com/
What's With Christina?! - http://w2christina.blogspot.com/
Irreligious Canuck - http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/
This day on the journey - http://guychmieleski.blogspot.com/
Live and Move: Thoughts on Authentic Christianity - http://liveandmove.blogspot.com/
Spiritual Journey With God - http://www.elvineve.blogspot.com/
Dries Conje - http://www.echurch.co.za/ / http://www.thejesusfeed.com/ / http://www.bookdisciple.com/.
Journey with Others - http://journeywithothers.blogspot.com/
Christine Moers - http://www.welcometomybrain.net/
Breaking Point - http://marybethstockdale.wordpress.com/
Hand to the Plough - http://www.handtotheplough.com.au/
Jon Reid - http://jonreid.blogs.com/oneanother/welcome-pilgrim.html
Weblight - http://www.blog.worldwidewebservices.se/
D. L. Webster - http://gzmproductions.com/dlwebster
Searching for the Whole-Hearted Life - wholeheartedlife.blogspot.com

From the Mystery of Sin to the Mystery of Syn V - Seeds of Peace

Martha Keys , The Fisherfolk who came to our school for a week.

I have just returned from the most beautiful place- The Inside Park -near Blandford Forum.More perhaps in another post.I was very struck on my return to blogland to read more posts on the Song of Solomon by Dan Bowen like this one.


This was striking because while I was away I have been reading more of "From Eternity To Here"by Frank Viola.




Probably the best way to understand this book is to imagine a time of praise which leads into a time of intimate worship.....like a Key of David meeting...or whatever your equivalent is...


then while some instrumentalists are playing gently....someone may be reading beautiful words to meditate on over a microphone. Those words could be any section from Frank's new book.


Let me put it this way. All of us now have the mechanics of lovemaking described and taught in biology or other purpose-built formats in school lessons. But how many take that biology book into the marriage bed with them? Nobody I think. If you take anything at all it is more likely to be poetry.


In the same way...we've heard a lot "about" the Church and Jesus. Many manuals have been written. But what I am saying is when the Presence of the Lord comes, how many of those manuals would you read from at those precious moments!!!!


No, at those moments...if you read from anything at all...it will be from the Bible itself...passages like The Song of Solomon...or Psalms.

Or from a rising tide of books that now includes "From Eternity To here."




they are books to be read...in relationship....in worship

and when God's presence comes. Individually. Corporately.


They began here and there...with Madame Guyon for example.


Then her influence touched countless but one was Jessie Penn Lewis, who in turn influenced Watchman Nee, which I guess Dan has finally got his fingers into.


This in turn led to The Divine Romance by Gene Edwards, which like From Eternity To Here, broadens the scope to capture the grandeur of the purpose of God towards His Bride from Eternity past, through and into creation, to be consummated in the heavenlies; in other words taking in the whole sweep of scripture.




And as Dan has discovered ,this includes unearthing the picture of a Jewish betrothal. Frank Viola describes the process in Chapter 10. In other words Song of Solomon describes this whole betrothal process, where there is quite a time lag between betrothal and actual consummation.




Here again is another example of where the devil-inspired world system scoffs at the very beauty of God's way of doing things. The devil doesn't understand anything other than impulse driven sex. Or worse rape even or violation. This idea that a couple would prepare for each other just is not even in the same horizon, no solar system. He only understands "try before you buy".Partnering without commitment; love without covenant.

Push and shove.

Marriage, he just can't conceive.

So little wonder that the world scoff at a Bridegroom who goes off and leaves His Bride for 2000 years and counting, while his "manservant" (to use the Isaac example) the Holy Spirit prepares a beautiful bride.



My little testimony in all this is that while waiting for the right time to bring out "Early Harvest", about 5 years ago I began to be quickened again to put a track on there about the Bride and Covenant Love. So this took me back to my roots of actually seeking out the double tape message of Ern Baxter at Capel Bible Week 1976 entitled Covenant Love: a Study of David and Jonathan. Well I googled for this and found Dan's blog in the summer of 2007. I had no idea that it would lead on to all this that has taken place. Meanwhile the 2nd cassette has been found in our attic!!!Which means that the 1st one may be in there. Last time we looked I bust the heating system!!!So we'd prefer it if someone else had a copy.




Now Frank's book has come my way....which in many ways is the verbalization of what was going on in my spirit. My task is to get some of this down musically. Over 37 years I have received 2 or 3 songs which are appropriate as well as having it in mind to link them musically.


The other link in my spirit comes from Kenneth Copeland's Blood Covenant series. If you can get these...hear them. Kenneth is part Cherokee , so the concept of Covenant agreement is in his lineage.In fact it was very much a part of why Cherokees did not get/understand Americans who in practice were such Covenant Breakers.

All these aspects of God's love for us come alive as we move out of sin...into Syn.


As we fuse with our Lord and with one another we begin moving in another dynamic.

It is revelation.

It is a way of living.

It is the true Jesus.

It is the real deal.


People who go on and on about morals. And trying to live a better and better life just haven't a clue.

We move out of sin, not to remain in some pure whitescape expanse like Greenland...marooned and guarding our "concept of purity". No I began this series by quoting the whole of Romans 12.


We are saved out of something to become part of something else. If we are not part of something else, we are deceived. If you are not connected to me and I am not connected to you...and so on and so on...the world over....we are all deceived. Jesus is real and he is One. He is not divided.




We can waffle on in churches or on blogs. But I just ask. Are we connected? If not we have a ways to go.


Rob and Ryan Rufus state we just pass through Romans 3 to 5 grace, then a repetition process of grace Romans 6-7 ,then we arrive at Romans 8.


Well two things prove whether they are correct. In Romans 8 living our environment which was formerly barren, starts to crack open. It starts to look more redeemed. We begin to set our immediate surroundings a bit freer. And in Romans 12, having had chapters 1 through 8, we can truly start to operate in this syn life....naturally...and ofcourse supernaturally...what I mean is it is not forced. We find it is normal for us. So these are the two proofs. Romans 8 and Romans 12.

In between by the way...the Jews start getting jealous!!! (More on another occasion!)



What my blog is about is that Romans 6 and 7 are real experiences also. There's a "reckoning/believing/confessing" of our spiritual realities...which often leads to a manifestation of the very opposite....until eventually the reality of the heavenlies crashes through the skies to bring a Romans 8 breakthrough for us. And in the reality of this, we can then sow into other's lives to see the same happen in them. This is the Kingdom chain reaction. This is true multi-level marketing! 2 tell 2 tell 2 tell 2etc etc. This is the picture of leaven, not as sin as in the Pharisees, but as Syn, the Kingdom leaven!




So in the spirit of this I was knocked for six by the manifestation of the love and anointing on the Fisherfolk when they visited our area and school. (1973)If ee cummings had written poetry about the reality of the Body of Christ: it would have looked like this Martha Keys poem.
-Probably my favorite poem to date on the subject of the Body of Christ .

I have uploaded the instrumental "Algeria" from Early Harvest CD1, here compressed for the internet(copyright AC Welch 1990).This contains fragments from Martha's poem, but really it is to listen to while reading the whole poem below.If you are interested in more details about Algeria, to save information overload it is put at the bottom of this post.Enjoy!



seeds of war and seeds of peace by martha keys
peace, peace, there is no peace
we've cried, we've tried
we cannot find it
not just the peace that glows inside: for that we have the power
in a flower or a little weed
i can find the peace i need inside

where is the peace
that can free me not to hide from you fearing to be found?
i see you coming down the street


paralyzed by fear of meeting another barricaded face
i pass by
on the other side
i return to the fear
i've learned
to live and sleep and breathe

peace, peace, there is no peace we've cried, we've tried
we cannot find it
we are whirling silences

touching circumferences

retreating
into our own orbits
we return
to the fear we've learned
to live and sleep and breathe

we need a strong peace
not a treaty
to keep us each
on our side of the line
we need a peace that flows between us
giving me to you and you to me
we need a very gentle peace
that reaches back
to when we were children:
peace that touches us
when we were hurt and couldn't cry

and when we cried and no one came

peace that holds us till we are loved free
of all the aching memories
that make me afraid of you
and you of me
we need a strong peace
breaking down the wall that stands between us

stone and cold and overgrown
with ancient vines
choking hope
we need the bond of peace:
unbreakable unshakable fact:

me given to you

you given to me

we are one
the old walls fall the old hurts heal

war-weary world
come
and see
maybe our lives can be a sacrament


love's presence in a world that's bent


the first foothold on the way to hope
we have learned to repent
not just relent
from doing what we want to do:
you hurting me

me hurting you

we've turned touched each other and we see
we are one
i am part of you

you're part of me

war-weary world if only you can see we live at peace
maybe the hope you've held inside
afraid to breathe
afraid to quench the fragile candle flame that flickered


in the fury of the war storm
maybe you could begin to breathe

maybe you could begin to believe peace can be as strong
as the killing and the wrong
we all have lived and died through

maybe you could see enough
to seek peace with us and trust that we are given to you

you're given to us
maybe we can be the life bread to fill the hole
that hope left when it died stabbed by jagged edges
of promises that broke
maybe we can be the phoenix risen from the war ashes
to pursue peace
with the passion
of the fury war unleashed
maybe our life can be a sacrament

love's presence in a world that's bent
the first foothold
on the way to hope
january 20 1973


just before Martha and the rest of the Fisherfolk came to my school Dr Challoner's Grammar School Amersham Bucks England with Graham Pulkingham . You can find it and a whole load of community testimonies in "They left Their Nets" by Graham Pulkingham 1973.

ALGERIA - instrumental Music : © A. Christopher Welch 1990. A TV documentary on RAI music in Algeria,(a sort of underground movement extolling wine, women etc., in a strict Muslim culture), still had an underlying futility and hopelessness, prompting this melody.Keyboard Cello and Piano: Michael Thom.Flute: AChristopher Welch Administered by No Name Ltd. 1991. Unlike Brother Andrew, I had no idea that the Muslim restlessness conveyed here would grow to threaten world stability,first in 1991, then in many of the incidents in the following years. Perhaps I was picking up the burden later expressed in Prayer for the 10/40 window.

From Eternity To Here - A Marriage Made in Heaven

The title refers not only to Frank Viola's new book "From Eternity To Here" but also to a piece of music which I called "The Door".

In 1988, long before Delirious....actually Martin Smith came over to spy us out in Emsworth that year....long before Wembley Stadium, long beforeToronto...I got this instrumental fragment. I used to play it at the end of meetings...and people just stared at me quizzically.I was wondering what to do with it. Soaking had not been invented....well, rediscovered as a form...I mean David in the Bible did a lot of soaking with his harp.

In the end I felt to put it on Early Harvest CD2 roughly at the point of moving from the 2nd level to the third level. Yes, Early Harvest is this blog in liquid form! On 2 CDs. Some people prefer their tablets, some their liquid capsules. But generally, if you like the blog, you'll probably get on with the Cds.

Interestingly "The Door" was played live together in the studio with Mike Thom on the other keyboards.I think we had the chords to one cycle but nothing else.I know the central bit was winging it and we recorded it all in one take.

This week I started reading "From Eternity to Here" and I was so taken with Chapter 1 :The Hidden Romance of The Bible -that I could practically hear "the Door" in the background. I was going to ask Mariette Stott if I could do this in our meeting...but it wasn't flowing...but this is what I suggest. Chapter 1 of Frank's book is written in text form...but I'm going to break it up into poem form. Read this to yourselves while listening to the music. Then take your laptop to church and do the same with them. Enjoy!

The Door - Extract from Early Harvest CD2 by A.Christopher Welch copyright AC Welch 1990 administered by No Name Ltd. Compressed sound for internet use.

Frank Viola From Eternity To Here -

Chapter 1

THE HIDDEN ROMANCE OF THE BIBLE
I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know.
—Ephesians 1:18 NASB
Before the beginning, she was there.She is the most ele­gant woman in the universe. She is as ancient as God. She existed before angels. Her origins reach further back than antiquity itself. Yet she is forever young.

The word stunning fails to adequately describe her.

She is as beautiful as the face of God. She is beyond captivating. She is hypnotic and magnetic.

Most of us have never imagined the glory that she carries. Just a glimpse of her matchless beauty could win your heart and possess your being. She is incurably attractive.
This woman defines liberty; she embodies freedom. And she was made for love.

She stands at the very heartbeat of God's eternal purpose.

She is His highest passion. His holy obsession, even.

She is thepurpose of the very creation wherein you and I stand. And your Lord is out-of-His-head in love with her.

Yet despite her beauty, she has been utterly neglected. She has been forgotten. And with rare exception, she has been veiled to most of us. Herein lies my motive in writing the first section of this book: to give her center stage.
God's Ultimate Passion
From the beginning, God has had a secret.

Before time, the Almighty shrouded His high and holy purpose in a mystery.

And He hid it in His Son.

For ages, no one knew what that purpose was. It was deeply hidden in God. It was a secret—the secret of the ages (Rom. 16:25; Col. 1:26; Eph. 3:4-5, 9).

Adam walked with God, yet he didn't know the mystery.

Abraham was the friend of God, yet he didn't know the mystery.

Moses was the prophet of God, yet he didn't know the mystery.

Neither did David, Isaiah, nor Jeremiah.

The mystery was not only veiled to mortals, it was hidden from angels as well. Gabriel and Michael didn't know it. Neither did Lucifer, nor his demonic hosts (1 Cor. 2:7-8; Eph. 3:9-10).

****************************

Why did God keep His purpose a secret for so long? Presumably because He didn't want His purpose to be thwarted prematurely.

God's purpose embodies His dream,

His passion,

His very heartbeat.

So He kept it veiled until the time became full.

Old Testament authors first proclaimed the sacred mystery in stories, types, pictures, and shadows. But although kings, prophets, and sages proclaimed it,they did not understand it.Then one day it happened.God pulled back the curtain and

revealed the secret.

He chose a man named Paul of Tarsus to unveil it to the world (Col. 1:25-29; Eph. 3:1-11). In Paul's letters, espe­cially Ephesians and Colossians, the apostle speaks of this mystery with great fervor. He virtually exhausts human language to convey its incomparable depths and unfathomable heights. Paul, along with other apostles and prophets of Century One, were "stewards of the divine mystery" (1 Cor. 4:1; Col. 1:25-26; Eph. 3:2-9).

On the day that God lifted the curtain and let the secret out, His enemy froze with terror.

Satan never saw, dreamed, nor thought that such a thing could be possible.

Although God revealed His mystery in the first century, it remains a secret to many Christians today. The Holy Spirit must open the eyes of His people in every generation for them to grasp it.

In this way, the great prayer of Paul in Ephesians 1:17-23 is still being answered.
The divine mystery has everything to do with the woman I spoke of earlier.

This amazing lady fills the pages of Holy Scripture.

She shows up

at the very beginning of the Bible;

she appears all through­out the middle;

and she's there at the very end.

The Scriptures give us in exalted view of this woman along with her immaculate Husband.

Each book of the Bible pulsates with her fragrance.
The Eternal Drama
In Genesis 1 and 2, the Bible opens up with a woman and a man.

(Chris Welch/Mark Stibbe insert)Jesus ministry began in a wedding

In Revelation 21 and 22, the Bible closes with a woman and a man.

The Bible opens up with a wedding, and it ends with a wedding.

It opens with a marriage, and it ends with a marriage.

It opens with a boy and a girl and it ends with a boy and a girl.

Your Bible is essentially a love story

In fact it is the greatest love story of all time.

It is the classic romantic tale. Those who know me well can tell you that I'm a huge fan of love stories. My favorite movies are romantic films. These films have the power to evoke strong emotion, even pulling tears from the eyes of their viewers. Yet the most powerful love story that any human has ever crafted pales in comparison to the epic romance that runs throughout your Bible.
Please pay attention to this next sentence:

Every love story that the minds of mortal men and women construct, every love story that has made its appearance in the pages of human history—whether fiction or nonfiction—is

but a reflection,

a pale image,

a faint portrait,

a scrambled version of the sacred romance of the ages.

God has authored the most incredible love story ever written. It is a story that has set the standard for all romantic literature to follow. Every great saga follows the story line of the hidden romance contained in Scripture. But none can trump it.

You and I were born into such a romance, the romance of the ages.
The heavenly romance that I've been speaking about begins in Genesis 2. Let us now revisit day seven of God's creation and watch the drama unfold.............

Folks...this is just the first chapter:From Eternity to Here by Frank Viola published by David C Cook at http://www.davidccook.com/ ISBN 978-1-4347-6870-4. Now available.

It is 3 stories in one"The first is the story of a God who is an ageless romantic,driven by one consuming pursuit.The second is about a God who has sought since eternity to have a resting place,a habitation,a home. And the third reveals a God from another realm who visits planet earth to establish a heavenly colony that will give Him visible expression." Frank Viola-Introduction-From Eternity To Here.