Homage to John Noble and Gerald Coates and other Facebook vids

left to right, Arthur Wallis Gerald Coates  John Noble

Thursday was a very busy day. Picked up  a piano action near Newbury. Delivered another piano from Southsea to Leicester. Picked up an item from my father's old house near London and then tuned a grand in Ascot, just a few miles from the Queen's 90th Birthday celebrations in Windsor.
But I did manage to post these to Facebook en route

Homage

The dynamic that drives Ephesians 6

The Foundational Apostolic Word through Arthur Wallis

The Jesuit Oath - (And you thought the Koran was bad)

It is important to explain the context of this blogpage in my world view.
Some aspects of my privileged upbringing drive me nuts, but there are many good aspects.
I was brought up in tolerant sixties Britain. Unlike Northern Ireland where it is important that you know whether you are Protestant or Catholic, I didn't have the slightest inkling what a Catholic was, often confusing them in my brain somehow as Jews. (And here you see early signs of my spirit making connections).

Then a whole raft of us young people had born again experiences, and were later baptised in the Spirit up and down the Misbourne Valley of Buckinghamshire 1971-2. Now as well as the Baptist Church in the neighbouring town of Great Missenden being blessed with new Spirit filled converts, so was the Catholic Church also. We had meetings together and I now blanche at the good grace of the catholic priest who I effectively usurped out of the equation.

In Germany I lived among Spirit-filled Catholics and had to get down to the nitty gritty of what I was prepared to go with. Luckily by now my friends were less Mary orientated, but there was still some ambivalence about praying to saints who specialised in certain things....forgetfulness and keyloss for example. I wrestled with and picked up similar revelation to David Matthews (of Northern Ireland)about the nature of celebrating the Body and Blood of Jesus. My blood ran cold when I caught the eye of a Jesuit who they all raved about. I thought at the time, this guy is dangerous.
Then back to Britain where Gerald Coates was still spouting quite balnd stuff about "there being no real need for Protestantism, as there was pretty much nothing to protest about." And after my time with Catholics, I pretty much agreed.

Isms we protest about.
Bad spirits that lead people astray from the Living Jesus we protest about.
But people remain pretty much, people.

With one proviso.
THE SECRET AGENDA.

Proverbs talks about the smile with the secret agenda behind it.
And generally speaking in the charismatic movement we have been totally naive.
Since the second world war and the setting up of the United Nations, followed by the Fall of the Berlin Wall there has been a tendency in the West to think like Agag in the Old Testament: "Surely the bitterness of death is past".

But there has been no real unpacking of what went wrong, that Germany should fall to Hitler, that Russia should fall to Communism, that Vietnam should occur, that America should break up a perfectly valid democracy under General Allende. And ofcourse the reason this is not truly unpacked is because the same forces have caused it all, and those forces are still extant in the earth.

Evil spirits live on and drive men to carry out their deeds in secret in much the same vein as in all of history.

So when we as youngsters read Proverbs in the UK in the 70s it seemed that everyone was trustworthy and the verses weren't really relevant anymore because man had grown wiser.

Right under our noses ofcourse
Ted Heath was lying about the Common Market (that is wasn't going to be a Federal State of Europe
The Anglican Church of England is being totally run by the Jesuit order of Malta , under a Queen who gives permission because she herself is order of Malta, and her husband is the figurehead of freemasonry in Britain. Go figure that one when you read the Jesuit Oath!!!
Jimmy Saville, the darling of BBC Saturday night viewing was a pedophile and some say necrophile, and procurer of children for sex.

So in fact, everything about Proverbs is absolutely correct, and the people who are the most foolish are those who LEAST SUSPECT IT TO BE SO like the gullible English who have been taken for an enormous ride at just about every level, as has indeed the whole Earth too.

So the point in posting this piece on Jesuitry is not to arouse a mob to kill them, but to awaken us to secret agendas, and to not always do the English thing of accepting everything so naively.




THE JESUIT OATH
My son, heretofore you have been taught to act the dissembler: among Roman Catholics to be a Roman Catholic, and to be a spy even among your own brethren; to believe no man, to trust no man. Among the Reformers, to be a Reformer; among the Huguenots, to be a Huguenot; among the Calvinists, to be a Calvinist; among other Protestants, generally to be a Protestant; and obtaining their confidence, to seek even to preach from their pulpits, and to denounce with all the vehemence in your nature our Holy Religion and the Pope; and even to descend so low as to become a Jew among Jews, that you might be enabled to gather together all information for the benefit of your Order as a faithful soldier of the Pope. You have been taught to plant insidiously the seeds of jealousy and hatred between communities, provinces, states that were at peace, and to incite them to deeds of blood, involving them in war with each other, and to create revolutions and civil wars in countries that were independent and prosperous, cultivating the arts and the sciences and enjoying the blessings of peace; to take sides with the combatants and to act secretly with your brother Jesuit, who might be engaged on the other side, but openly opposed to that with which you might be connected, only that the Church might be the gainer in the end, in the conditions fixed in the treaties for peace and that the end justifies the means. You have been taught your duty as a spy, to gather all statistics, facts and information in your power from every source; to ingratiate yourself into the confidence of the family circle of Protestants and heretics of every class and character, as well as that of the merchant, the banker, the lawyer, among the schools and universities, in parliaments and legislatures, and the judiciaries and councils of state, and to be all things to all men, for the Pope's sake, whose servants we are unto death. You have received all your instructions heretofore as a novice, a neophyte, and have served as co-adjurer, confessor and priest, but you have not yet been invested with all that is necessary to command in the Army of Loyola in the service of the Pope. You must serve the proper time as the instrument and executioner as directed by your superiors; for none can command here who has not consecrated his labours with the blood of the heretic; for "without the shedding of blood no man can be saved". Therefore, to fit yourself for your work and make your own salvation sure, you will, in addition to your former oath of obedience to your order and allegiance to the Pope, repeat after me:
(Text of the Oath:)
I_______________ , now in the presence of Almighty God, the blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the Holy Apostles, St. Peter and St. Paul, and all the saints, sacred host of Heaven, and to you, my Ghostly Father, the superior general of the Society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Loyola, in the pontification of Paul the Third, and continued to the present, do by the womb of the Virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear that His Holiness, the Pope, is Christ's Vice-Regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by the virtue of the keys of binding and loosing given to His Holiness by my Saviour, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical Kings, Princes, States, Commonwealths, and Governments, and they may be safely destroyed. Therefore to the utmost of my power I will defend this doctrine and His Holiness's right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran Church of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway, and the now pretended authority and Churches of England and Scotland, and the branches of same now established in Ireland and on the continent of America and elsewhere and all adherents in regard that they may be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome. I do now denounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or State, named Protestant or Liberal, or obedience to any of their laws, magistrates or officers. I do further declare the doctrine of the Churches of England and Scotland of the Calvinists, Huguenots, and others of the name of Protestants or Masons to be damnable, and they themselves to be damned who will not forsake the same. I do further declare that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of His Holiness's agents, in any place where I should be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Ireland or America, or in any other kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my utmost to extirpate the heretical Protestant or Masonic doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, legal or otherwise. I do further promise and declare that, notwithstanding, I am dispensed with to assume any religion heretical for the propagation of the Mother Church's interest; to keep secret and private all her agents' counsels from time to time, as they entrust me, and not to divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstances whatever; but to execute all that should be proposed, given in charge, or discovered unto me by you, my Ghostly Father, or any of this sacred order. I do further promise and declare that I will have no opinion or will of my own or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ. That I will go to any part of the world whithersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions north, jungles of India, to the centres of civilisation of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things, whatsoever is communicated to me. I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do, to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex nor condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infants' heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. 
That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agents of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus. In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false, or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, my belly be opened and sulphur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth, and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever. That I will in voting always vote for a Knight of Columbus in preference to a Protestant, especially a Mason, and that I will leave my party so to do; that if two Catholics are on the ticket I will satisfy myself which is the better supporter of Mother Church and vote accordingly. That I will not deal with or employ a Protestant if in my power to deal with or employ a Catholic. That I will place Catholic girls in Protestant families that a weekly report may be made of the inner movements of the heretics. That I will provide myself with arms and ammunition that I may be in readiness when the word is passed, or I am commanded to defend the Church either as an individual or with the militia of the Pope. All of which I,_______________, do swear by the blessed Trinity and blessed sacrament which I am now to receive to perform and on part to keep this my oath. In testimony hereof, I take this most holy and blessed sacrament of the Eucharist and witness the same further with my name written with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and seal in the face of this holy sacrament.
(He receives the wafer from the Superior and writes his name with the point of his dagger dipped in his own blood taken from over his heart.)
(Superior speaks:)
You will now rise to your feet and I will instruct you in the Catechism necessary to make yourself known to any member of the Society of Jesus belonging to this rank. In the first place, you, as a Brother Jesuit, will with another mutually make the ordinary sign of the cross as any ordinary Roman Catholic would; then one crosses his wrists, the palms of his hands open, and the other in answer crosses his feet, one above the other; the first points with forefinger of the right hand to the centre of the palm of the left, the other with the forefinger of the left hand points to the centre of the palm of the right; the first then with his right hand makes a circle around his head, touching it; the other then with the forefinger of his left hand touches the left side of his body just below his heart; the first then with his right hand draws it across the throat of the other, and the latter then with a dagger down the stomach and abdomen of the first. The first then says Iustum; and the other answers Necar; the first Reges; the other answers Impious. The first will then present a small piece of paper folded in a peculiar manner, four times, which the other will cut longitudinally and on opening the name Jesu will be found written upon the head and arms of a cross three times. You will then give and receive with him the following questions and answers:
From whither do you come? Answer: The Holy faith.
Whom do you serve? Answer: The Holy Father at Rome, the Pope, and the Roman Catholic Church Universal throughout the world.
Who commands you? Answer: The Successor of St. Ignatius Loyola, the founder of the Society of Jesus or the Soldiers of Jesus Christ.
Who received you? Answer: A venerable man in white hair.
How? Answer: With a naked dagger, I kneeling upon the cross beneath the banners of the Pope and of our sacred order.
Did you take an oath? Answer: I did, to destroy heretics and their governments and rulers, and to spare neither age, nor sex, nor condition; to be as a corpse without any opinion or will of my own, but to implicitly obey my Superiors in all things without hesitation or murmuring.
Will you do that? Answer: I will.
How do you travel? Answer: In the bark of Peter the fisherman.
Whither do you travel? Answer: To the four quarters of the globe.
For what purpose? Answer: To obey the orders of my General and Superiors and execute the will of the Pope and faithfully fulfil the conditions of my oaths.
Go ye, then, into all the world and take possession of all lands in the name of the Pope. He who will not accept him as the Vicar of Jesus and his Vice-Regent on earth, let him be accursed and exterminated.

Covenant Love on my mind!

I want you to read this excerpt. It wasn't written by John Noble or Gerald Coates or Maurice Smith in a Fulness magazine in the mid 70s and illustrated by crazy drawings or plasticine models at the side by Nick Butterworth and Mick Inkpen. But it is virtually identical. It is written by Jamie Weeks here. And it is very similar to the blogpost Lydia did on reflections of Hong Kong.

They describe what I call Covenant Love meals. You know the sort Jesus had just before His death...and then subsequently on the road to Emmaus at which the two disciples experienced that glowing warmness ...no burning feeling they had...and they knew it just had to be Jesus!!
These and the times we now experience, are mini fulfilments of the Feast of Tabernacles/the Feast of Booths. It's the reality of the Body of Christ lived!!!
I am believing that all our Sunday meetings are going to become more and more like this. Again, how can I be so confident? Because that is what is happening in Havant. Christine said the Key of David meeting was awesome. It was Jesus Himself coming with a fresh revelation of His Grace.
In the afternoon Peter and Helen were describing some of the practical mechanics behind running these meetings. The history is that they felt to explore as a worship group and a few others, how you ascend the hill of the Lord. They wanted a safe place to learn and to make mistakes, away from the main congregation. It was here they learned about pressing in through the second level of principalities and powers, until a breakthrough occurs and they know something of a manifestation of the glory of God. Its like the 3rd heaven breaking through into earth realm.
These became monthly meetings open for outsiders to come. But then Florida happened and ever since, our Sunday meetings have been becoming more and more like the Key of David meetings. Not quite on the same level...but today , which I actually got to, was very precious.
We have to be free to learn these things...without resorting back to the familiar...the comfort zone...the tried and tested...the boring.Peter and Mariette are exporting our findings usually with teams from our church into Spain and USA and wherever they feel God calling.

Back to Jamie's excerpt.If you've not seen it read this!

But here is what I want to somehow attempt to express: We heard marvelous truths taught during the conference. We knew God was choreographing events because many of the subjects our small group discussed privately would be touched on later by either Steve or Paul. Incredible! And Steve and Paul pushed into the deeper truths of what it means to have Christ formed in you. This was no milk for babies or for the easily offended. This was meat for those who know that CHRIST IN US should eventually be CHRIST AS US! YES!!!!But still...it wasn't those moments of confirmation that were the miracle of our week-end.Nope, as gooood as they were.It was sitting at breakfast, lunch, or dinner. Sitting in the bar or standing around waiting to start. Just talking. Just sharing our hearts. Just being the Church.And questioning everything we've ever been taught about what we, the ekklesia, should look like.Questioning manmade structures be they buildings or set programs. Questioning giving and being missional. Questioning and challenging and trusting the Christ in each one of us to show us truth.And that was the miracle. Seeing and being Christ to each other! Being the Body of Christ.Without a pastor, a building, a sermon, an offering, a structured agenda, or any hierarchy. Just the Body trusting the Head to keep us and grow us. We ministered to each other!! THAT IS A BIG GOD THING!!What if the reason the modern church is in crisis is because the modern church is too afraid to trust God and just step out in relational fellowship??? What if we REALLY CAN trust Christ to be our Head and the Holy Spirit to lead us into all Truth through each other???What if??I for one was forever changed. And I'm not going back.

This is Huuuuuuge!

I'm not sure it's hit everyone yet....
a) what this blog is about and b) how huge the implications are. Think huuuuuuuuge.


Gerald Coates and John Noble immediately saw the ramifications of what a true Spirit-filled people in the Earth would be. And they produced "Fulness " magazine. The distinction was this. "Restoration" magazine saw God restoring the church to a place where it would propel the message of the gospel out into the four corners of the Earth. "Fulness" magazine could see that God doesn't want to just save us to inhabit church meetings...He wants to fill us with the Fulness of Himself so we learn to carry on where Adam left off...living out our whole lives in a newness of life, issuing out of a relationship with God Himself. Perhaps a broader vision than just having charismatics exporting charismatic meetings everywhere.

Thing was....we only had secondlevel equipment at the time. And as fabulous as it was to prance about to Christine Noble's freedom dances....and to hire big halls and events and call them banquets......we were all just secondlevellers attending bigger meetings!!!!

But Maurice Smith's vision "The Glorious Church" is accurate. Gerald Coates and John Noble both saw that this was going to be nothing short of a new Reformation....maybe one that would put the Lutheran and Calvinist one right in the shade!!!

So this post is a kind of summary. In an unsubtle manner I am pointing with a 60 foot finger to the strands we have covered so far.

It all went wrong in the Garden...so this is where God is starting again. Most gracebloggers...in fact let's be clearer...just about all the charismatic movement...start too late. Tonight you can probably watch Creflo Dollar or Kenneth Copeland or Jesse Duplantis starting at Deuteronomy 28...declaring how God is reversing these Chapter 28 curses into the blessings at the beginning of the chapter.

Well....the gospel's better than that!!! See, you can have all those blessings and still feel as desperate as Dan Bowen does at times. I had no idea that was what was behind the cutting. Truly I feel torn apart when I read this...because you see folks...we are all in this together...we are all joined!!! And quite apart from this...although Jesus demands a total seriousness of heart regarding sin.....just as He does different aspects of sin...like fear...when He says...don't fear him who has power to hurt the body or kill...fear Him who has the Power over the 2nd Death...He who has the power to cast into hell... Or regarding wealth...it is harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle....etc etc...or before removing the speck in your brother's eye, take the log out of your own....

These are all serious statements in the Spirit....but not meaning we have to take a knife to ourselves....but having got our attention He wants to tell us something worse....He has killed us. He killed us on the Cross, then bound up the resurrected remains in Himself...so if we want to find life and deliverance...we have to peer into Him in heaven to see Dan Bowen hidden with Christ in God. Then what we peer into in heaven becomes manifest out through our bodies on earth. Which is a far less bloody way of dealing with things...the only blood ofcourse being already shed 2000 years ago!!! Back to the post............

So what went wrong in Genesis 3? And what went right for us when Christ died and was raised to the right hand of God the Father.

1. It's this simple..........PERIOD.
   ADAM reached out an arm and grabbed a fruit.As he did so a false spirit entered his spirit chamber.Permanently. At the Cross, this false spirit was ejected from our spirit chamber.Permanently. Now we reach out an arm, leg,.....anything....believing it is Christ as me...in my form. PERIOD.This is expanded on here
2. Some Doors and Gates slammed shut. This has caused seismic problems for us. This and the reversal of this curse is discussed in Peter Stott's blockbuster message on Psalm 24 (Split into 4 parts)
3. Last year and this year has been for our Havant church a completely fresh understanding of God as Father. Peter Stott has talked on intimacy with God for ages...but somehow it has been and still is God's timing for opening this as a well of understanding and revelation in the church.
   
   Both the Havant May2008 Who is the King of Glory Conference - particularly Clive Jackson of Shaftsbury....and then Mark Stibbe's messages in RiverCamp2008 opened this whole area.
   
   In Chapter 7 of Orphans and Heirs Mark Stibbe writes about the cycle of grace.Original source Frank Lake"Clinical Theology".
   
   
   
   The Cross restores this cycle to the right order.Acceptance - Feeding on it -til it becomes a fixed thing in us-then out of that we achieve.Beforehand, we were operating in reverse. It was a cycle of Law. Feeling hollow and useless we try to achieve,to work - to get a feeling of worth - then out of that to try and gain acceptance.Churches are full of this stuff. It is not my intention to say any more about this, because his book can be purchased here .But it is very important material. Just to say there is a very interesting paragraph on Jonathan Edwards.
   
   One of the questionable aspects in the charismatic renewal has been the tendency to trust in external sensations rather than inward communion as the basis of assurance. There has been an unspoken
   tendency to thirst after bodily reactions to God's power more than the inner testimony of the Spirit. This has created a culture in which shaking, falling, laughing, weeping, jerking and groaning have become the only signs that God truly loves and accepts us. Those who experience these things feel affirmed by God's touch. Those who don't experience them feel rejected and left out.
   Jonathan Edwards wrote a great deal about the dangers of this particular tendency back in the First Great Awakening in eighteenth- century America. By the time he wrote his classic work, Religious
   Affections, he had become very cautious about the more sensational phenomena associated with revival. For Edwards, the true sign of "grace in a believer's life was not constant visions (much of which he attributed to the imagination), nor the 'bodily exercises' (such as shaking and falling),
   but those operations on the heart that are spiritual, supernatural and divine. In other words, Edwards looked on the heart of a person rather than on his outward appearances. His chief concern was whether or not a person knew in his heart something that could never have been discovered naturally and could only have been communicated through the work of the Holy Spirit. Did a person know the royal seal of the Prince of Princes? Did he know that the seal of the High King of heaven had been stamped upon his heart? This was what Edwards meant by the 'divine' operation of the Spirit, for nothing could be more divine than the revelation that we are God's children. This, then, is what Edwards called the witness of the Spirit-the revelation that we are the adopted children of God with attendantevidence of that fact in our lives. For Edwards, the crucial passage of scripture in this whole area is Romans 8:16, where Paul says that the Spirit witnesses to our spirits that we are the children of God. Edwards showed that the Spirit referred to is the Spirit of adoption that dwells in
   us, leads and guides us, and disposes us to behave towards God as children towards a father. This is the Spirit of love that creates 'the disposition and temper of children, appearing in sweet childlike love to God, which casts out fear or a spirit of a slave'.Once the believer knows this internal work of the Spirit, he will never need 'multiplied signs' because he feels plainly the intuitive and immediate union with Abba, Father. This kind of operation could never be created by the flesh or inspired by the devil. While both an unholy and the human spirit can suggest scriptures and give false visions, neither can lead to genuine intimacy with Abba, Father. Jonathan Edwards"Religious Affections
4. Rob Rufus has been preaching on this fourth strand of what went on in the Garden.http://www.citychurchinternational.net/mp3_2/2009_02_15.zip We received a lying spirit about the nature of the goodness and greatness of God. This was because we swallowed Genesis 3:5 For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and (D)you will be like God, knowing good and evil." i.e He was holding out on us. Instead we would be like God. And in our independant godlike status we could judge things...weigh facts. And this is why our faithlife...our miracle life is like scaling a cliff face. because any faith that we are trying to muster is coming out of 2 false foundations. 1 - that we can be independant...this is Satan terrain...and 2. That God is a liar and He is not really that good. These 2 false roots need ripping out from the insides of our beings before we can ever get anywhere. This is why what Rob Rufus and Bill Johnson are preaching is so vital to the church at the moment. It is grace!. But it is WARFARE! Because God wants His Church back...to operate through...to reach the world.

So to sum up. The third level is not the same as the charismatic movement. It is deeper. It goes back further in time. It deals with the roots. In posts to come I want to deal with our left-brain living. Our manner of life that is darkened see Romans1/ Ephesians 2. The opposite in other words of living as the Bible instructs in Proverbs 3:5-6.

Rob James said last week while we prayed as men, that Time magazine had announced among the top 10 discernible trends of the immediate future would see a Rise in Calvinism, especially in the USA. This is what Iggy is up against. This Calvinism/Armenian debate is to this day stripping churches in places like Liss here in England.

Instead of getting into this I am going to now spell out the real truth! The real truth is that the English and the Americans, after centuries of wrangling are still locked into their left-brains. That is what this argument is showing. It is almost as if the recent waves of God from the Great Awakening onwards...have not happened. Churches are still filled with darkness.Jesus said"If the light within you is darkness....how great is the darkness!!!"

You may as well wrangle over the Trinity in the way Muslims do when confronted by Christian doctrines. The truth is that all these truths, and many many more to come fall instantly into place in the third level. So faced by wrangling males...and it usually is....ripping God's own church to shreds by their disobedience and darkness of thought, and shrivelled faithlife....I would say

SHUTUP! SIT DOWN! HAVE PATIENCE! LET GOD LOVE YOU. AND ALL WILL BECOME CLEAR ...once the idolatry of your own minds has been torn down...ready for God Himself to speak to You.

The other thing that will sort us out is something I've only just seen in the last few days. Those in the "Prophetic Voice" group in Facebook know that Jose asked me to put down the Ship Propulsion unit vision fom HMS Sultan Summer fete last year. The Lord only released this vision locally in the last Key of David meeting in Havant. But the original appeared in Dan's vaults on 21st June last year. (Keep an eye on our blogs...you will see stuff first here!) But what I have only just understood is that the ring burner ministry vision is to be married with the "orb" vision I had. I will put them down afresh for you in the next post. In other words , through relating giftings and ministries , as we saw in the past through Fort Lauderdale and the London group of ministries....something like a circular forcefield of God's Presence was created. A safeguard. A fulness of ministry. A balance of Word. Not an intellectual balance. We are talking in the Spirit. And the Power and anointing upon these circles of ministries will be unlike anything we have seen to date. Why different than before?Because, as Ian McCulloch shared with me once about the London brothers' gatherings, as anointed as they were on a platform together...they were still pretty left-brain locked when it came to arguing doctrines amongst themselves in leader's meetings. Having met some since...I can believe it!!! Brethren....I have faith for this to stop. Why? Because He has been doing something to stop this in leader's gatherings in Havant...so He can do it elsewhere too! Even in the USA!! Imagine that!! Anyway...back to the subject of the post....

This thing is huuuuge. If everything that went wrong....if everything that we see surrounding us...came out of a marriage of creative mankind marrying up with a Satan spirit....what on Earth will be the outcome of a creative mankind learning to live fulltime in the Son....Jesus. There is nothing the River of God won't touch. There is nothing left out of the verse "The knowledge of the glory of God will cover the Earth as the waters cover the sea!!!!"

I think it's bigger Rheinhardt Bonnke, than even filling stadiums with nigh on a million people! I think it's bigger Morris Cerullo, than collecting hundreds and thousands together and praying an Elijah anointing on them! I think it's bigger Rob Rufus, than building a big grace church in Hong Kong! I think it's bigger than collecting orphans into the biggest orphanages and most successful orphanages that this world has seen! I think it's bigger Bill Johnson than recreating what John G Lake had years ago....an anointing for healing and miracles!I think it's a bit bigger Iggy than creating perfect Emerging churches...or sitting at home and learning the Father's love on your own like Amy is Walking In the Spirit. I think it's bigger than building ever bigger networks of charismatic churches with only 2 out of 3 revelations: The Abraham and Isaac revelation...but no Jacob revelation.Listen to me Terry Virgo! Mark Driscoll!

It's bigger than just becoming good at improving education. We're talking about teaching and imparting all of Romans...not just the first 3 or 5 chapters. The result being that we lead people into turning their environment around....Romans 8 "the sons setting creation free." St Paul knew how to do this. The third level is the biggest single thing to hit the Earth since Genesis. What bigger than the Cross? No it cannot beat the cross in any other way than this.....Jesus came to raise a multitude who would live,sleep walk,pray...in the same anointing and the same quality of life that He had. He was the firstborn of many brethren. That's why it's huuuuuuge! He is pouring out revelation in these days to show us the tricks of how we do it....just like He did it!!! The charismatic thing was the practice run. It was Isaac and Jacob faithing things in. The third level is what happened after Jacob met God at Peniel! Then the history of corporate Israel really began!!!! This is when the corporate Christ will really hit the planet! The rest has just been boxing the air in a gym!!!

A Third Level Approach to Ministry III

Continuing the series that looks at how we do the whole thing of "Ministry" as the present Body of Christ.
To quote Gerald Coates from nigh on 40 years ago, "radical" means concerned with the root.
If the root of how we do ministry is a bit off, then like the Tower of Pisa, it doesn't get better the further up we go.

Me and the present setups
After all my postings you are probably aware of the slightly schizophrenic nature of this blog. On the one hand I want to encourage any good, God-raised up vehicle that gets people from a to b in Christ. If there are colleges that are being used to ground people in the Word of God. If there are networks or families of churches that are continually planting out here and abroad. If there are evangelists,especially signs and wonders evangelists bringing in a harvest of new people to Christ, and from there into existing churches.
My problem is this word "vehicle".

Since being with Graham Pulkingham and the Fisherfolk I saw a kind of prototype Kingdom.
A prototype self-replicating Body of Christ. A Body that was birthed in the intercessory pain of Joel. The priests before the altar. Of Graham on a crypt floor for 3 months (read his book in my book list)surrounded by a broken neighbourhood...that neither wanted his church - nor could see anything else in life than the struggle to just survive. Nobody in my hearing has ever used the word "vehicle" about Graham Pulkingham and the Fisherfolk Community.It wasn't a vehicle. It was Christ in their forms.

Here was faith. Evangelistic faith....even willing to come into Dr Challoner's Grammar School Amersham, fresh over from Houston Texas. But here was something else too. Here was a covenantal love between everybody. That was more than duty. There had been some dying and resurrecting...as in Jamie's last post . In Song of Solomon the younger sister is berated for being like a Tower....not having the well developed breasts of Faith and Love.

If we do not have well developed faith and well developed love...
our evangelism contains a lot of hoopla, a lot of brow-beating, a lot of pressure...

The thing is... the gospel is real, folks. We can do some dying and resurrecting. What resurrects is not us, but Christ...in all His unique fragrances and oils. People know on their insides that we have been with Him. The truth is actually far deeper. The truth is He has eaten us for lunch!!!
He never was really that interested in our lives before knowing Him. As clever as we may have thought we were. Whatever we were we really do count as loss. Cos when you've had tasters of Him radiating His Life out through you....such that every one in the room becomes a little irradiated themselves....well why would you ever go back?
So this is my problem
with large networks like Salt and Light, like New Frontiers,and all the many others out there
are they what I have described...the self-replicating Body of Christ
or are they just machines...just vehicles? It was never in Gerald Coates' heart to create a vehicle. But is this in fact what we are left with? New carts for the glory of God. Instead of the poles in my parable.
This is what prompted this post
Obviously I was struck over the weekend by the frankness of Dan's post on Life on Wings. But this is what hit me forcibly yesterday afternoon. And this is nothing to do with Dan.
There is a breed of person who remains in the academic world all his life. Like CS Lewis. Or let's take a Mr Smith. He does all his schooling. He goes to University. He does a Phd, then becomes a teacher in a school. Then out of 30 or more pupils, maybe one or two do likewise. So there already you have 2 generations of pupils that have perpetuated an academic life to perpetuate an academic life.
My point is more subtle than to say we perpetuate academic life, academic study of the scriptures...to forever be replicating just knowledge of the scriptures. Perhaps that is the preserve of the evangelical churches. No my point is a continuation of the last ministry posts.
What our networks perpetuate is a 2 level gospel of forgiveness and moving in the Spirit. The vision of faith (the God of Abraham and his faith walk) and the vision of the Baptism in the Spirit (the God of Isaac and his wells) but nearly nobody reproduces the Life Change or Name change which is hidden in the phrase "seek the Face of the God of Jacob" And it is this last revelation that changes a believer into an oozing Christ stick like Graham Pulkingham. It is this final element that meant the Israel history could start rolling. Via the 12 sons....and we know the rest.
And it is this final level that makes Ed Miller, and Mother Basilea Schlink stand out like Lighthouses in the sea of other ministries. Because, through doggedly seeking God themselves, they both found it,taught it and radiated it. And something similar was coming through Mother Theresa, who for 40 years did nothing but seek God....then when she was called to India she went as "Christ as her". She knew her identification, to use Jorge Pradas' phrase.

The model of Salt and Light under Barney Coombs, and Terry Virgo's New frontiers, and Morris Cerullo's God's Victorious Army , and Rheinhardt Bonnke's ministry schools, and YWAM's Discipleship Training Schools are wrong. They are 2 level affairs, with built-in add ons to try and make up for the deficiences. And to go back to the academic example. This insufficiency is perpetuated throughout the generations. At what point do people learn to live in the real world as "Christ as them". Then perpetuate that. At what point do people see right into the problem of Genesis 3:5, so they can correct it. They don't. So a shallow 2 level Christianity is forever perpetuated.

As I've described before about the Word being like a suspended orb(see comments section of this post)....in the end, when I listen to folk I'm not listening just to their words or their message, I am looking to see if the orb of God's Presence is suspended within what they are saying. This will make more sense if you read the passage again. Because English ministries have little or no knowledge of the 3 part Way of God
You get a limp and flaccid 2 part version
You get sound-ish docrine, but no Presence
You get add-on ministries like "Celebrate Recovery" in Derby church because of the insufficiencies in the original gospel....which leaves people still bound in their particular brand of sins, as I was.Worse than this by the way....at least 3 or 4 of the young people I was in Bible House with are dead. Many more are divorced. Already. I think it's important you read to the end of this post. I am not speaking out of lightweight experience.Perhaps now you can understand where I am coming from with 1st and 2nd level churches
The struggles that Dan describe this weekend are treated by the 1st and 2nd level churches as a brief abberation, as a slightly embarrassing interlude in the running of network churches. This is the tone of one of the Salt and Light church people when describing Todd's difficulties of 2005...let alone his more recent difficulties. It hasn't yet hit the Network churches that THIS IS THE GOSPEL. Everyone plays down these seeming abberrations...but this is Romans 7...this is the Psalms experience David is going on about. This IS how we decide in a safe universe to make a change on the inside of us. This is no human decision. This is a miracle. This isGod doing something at last...when all else failed.(Read Corrie Ten Boom) While we lean on the ultimate victory of the Cross 2000 years ago....this is us making it ours. It is debilitating...read Maurice Smith's 20th Century Pilgrim. It is embarrassing...especially to the pull yourselves up by your bootstraps brigade. But you see, those ones are not fully born again yet. Grace is not active in them yet. Their eternal destiny may be sealed....but God is not just about people's eternal destinies...He wants to get Christ up and running in me and you too...just like all those "top shelf" Christian bookshop people.
Like Watchman Nee. Like Corrie ten Boom. Like George Verwer. Like Madame Guyon. Like John Bunyan who describes all this in incredible detail in Pilgrim's Progress. And no, the order in his story is not wrong. It's you and your churches that are wrong.

Network churches build warehouses of Christians they don't know what to do with. They celebrate two out of the three feasts. Passover and Pentecost. And then they make Tabernacles into a reiteration of Passover because it has a Day of Atonement in it. see Joseph Prince.

No. No. No. Atonement is where it is in the sequence for a reason. If you are established in Passover and Pentecost...and you know His love and His forgiveness and His Presence....on the basis of that grounding He can begin walloping you like a teenager...to conform you into His sonship...to make you into an adult...a Co-worker with Him. Rather than looking at David in an embarrassed way...poor thing...he went through such stuff in the wilderness with Saul and that.... you've got to see that THIS IS THE WAY OF GOD. It's not something God is embarrassed about either.

To conclude I prophesy this with reference to our previous chats recently about Israel.
When the Church gets the revelation about Jacob...and the Name change
When the Church gets the revelation about The Day of Atonement
In that day we are going to provoke the nation of Israel to jealousy
And in that day we will see with our own eyes
A True Day of Atonement
The two houses being made as One (At one-ment) with their God and with each other.
Both flawed and floored by the grace of God in equal measure...that NO MAN MAY BOAST.

Selah

Wahoo-a-zowie! I get Myself Back!

Norman Grubb - Yes I am- Chapter25 "I Get Myself Back"
Now we move on to the surprising and glorious effects on us of this total relationship of replacement-union. The chief one is the paradox.A person might think that this inner consciousness of Christ in me, as me, would give me an enlarged consciousness of Him and an increased glorying in Him. It does... even though He has already been, for years, my precious Christ in the love relationship of the Song of Songs. But what becomes paradoxically new to me is a totally new self-acceptance. And here, at once, we move onto "dangerous ground" — not dangerous to us, but to onlookers like the daughters of Jerusalem in the Song! Because it seems to produce a newly inflated ego —I! It does. But of course, we who have entered in and are now in on the secret know the whole key — that it is a Satan-expressing ego which has first disappeared forever in His cross, before reappearing as our new Christ-expressing ego. But it is a total reappearing of the "I"! Why? Because it has been God's fixed plan of grace from before the foundation of the world that He was going to have a vast company of fully liberated sons — liberated fully to be themselves — by whom He would fully be Himself embodied in human forms. Yet in that paradoxical relationship, unintelligible to those not initiated into it, the human "I" is its full spontaneous self, and acting as such. That is why I often say there is no egoist in history equal to our Lord Jesus Christ! He was always, I.
I—"I am the door," "I am the living bread," "I am the light," "I am the way." Emphatic self. Yet we who know Him are also aware— look within Him! — that He was always saying "I do nothing by Myself, but only what I see My Father do," and "If you see Me, you see the Father."That is precisely what happens to us. Before we know our exchanged life, while still in the struggles and self-condemnation of Romans 7, we dislike and downgrade ourselves — "0 wretched man that I am!" We are compulsively negative about ourselves and deeply suspicious of what we think are our dangerous tendencies. So now it is an altogether new thing, and may take a little time to sink into us, that so far from downgrading ourselves, because He now accepts us, wenow accept ourselves as His precious vessel, branch, body member, bride. Every part of us — our physical appetites, our soulish emotions and reasoning powers — are beautiful and wholly valuable as His outer means of manifestation. It usually takes a little time to realize this, just because we've been so used to thinking the opposite about ourselves.So now we're free to be ourselves, because we now know weare wholly His human forms. We live with raised, not lowered heads! Sure, we're not unaware of the subtle misuse today bypsychologists and many others of a false "self-acceptance" and"self-liberation to be ourselves." Indeed, this is universal,because the deceived natural man assumes he has no self except himself, and his only remedy for his self problems is the fraudulent build-up of himself as "inherently good." But just because there is a wave of modern, false emphasis on the build-up of self, that must not inhibit us from boldly accepting and affirming ourselves — we who truly know who we truly are!One notable effect of this is also another kind of paradox —in that in our normal daily living, for most of the time, we forget who we are, and just function as ourselves. It is the same principle as in our professional lives. Once we are competent in our particular profession, as we've said before, whether a cook,teacher, carpenter, engineer, or whatever, we do not spend our hours reminding ourselves or others that we are this or that,but we just go ahead being it. We don't keep saying "I'm a teacher, I'm a teacher," but we just teach! So in precisely the same way, when we know that we are really He in us, we don't keep running around reminding ourselves or telling that to others. We just do our daily job. enter into our daily conversations, etc., totally forgetting that it is He in us by us —but it is only He, all the time. So we don't have to have special prayer times to "remind ourselves," though we love any chances we have for our secret inner-love tryst with Him. Nor do we have to come to the end of a busy day and condemn ourselves for not having thought more of Him. If we do that,He tells us not to be so foolish ... for our doings and talkings were His all the time.
Can I just interject here (Chris). In the mid to late 70s a lot of the London leaders were preaching similar stuff...under the banner of "being naturally Jesus". There was something not right about it in practice...and maybe I'll do more in another post. People were calling "Jesus in them" things that definitely weren't. So what's the safeguard? Well, in the end it's living it!
You've got the Galations 5:19-21 list of the works of the flesh as a checklist for a start. You've got behaviours listed in Matthew's Gospel(5:21ff.... 6:1-27 and 23:1-36 )basically we know in our spirits what isn't Jesus...and for our blind spots we have others alongside who are also living in the Spirit.The Body of Christ...which isn't quite the same as the church structure ,by the way! In meetings we learn how to live and move as Jesus as us. All we are doing now is taking the same inner believing outside of the meeting room walls. We are checking ourselves all the time...is this Christ doing stuff through me?..am I in faith?Am I defined who is living my life right now? Cos if there is any fuzzyness...we're already slipping back into "independant just me living again" And it is this stuff that Gerald Coates,George Tarleton, Dave Mansell,John Noble and the early 70's Maurice Smith were not preaching.They were not defined. And some horrible things happened.
You have to understand...3rd level is as real as 2nd level stuff in meetings. It's not pie in the sky. After a while of living this way, you're nolonger verbalizing stuff so much...the 3rd level realities have taken hold of you...you are not holding them!!! Then when you go back into 2nd level meetings...your praise...your authority ....your naturalness with Jesus is just in another place, because you have been living there.
Think about it. David always wrote psalms. From the time he was a shepherd lad!. But having had Saul chase him around in the wilderness, then fall in adultery, then crumple broken before the Lord in Psalm 51.After all this...when he then established Temple worship ....well it was so fantastic...the very glory of God filled the place!!!! And that's where we're going folks...as hundreds of thousands start to learn about the realities of 3rd level living.(Unfortunately Norman didn't live to see it)

He continues.....
I don't think my friend, Gloria, sister of former-President Carter, will mind me telling this story about her. About eight or more years ago we were together at a Faith at Workconference in Georgia, and during the weekend the Lord revealed to her the secret that she was really Christ in her formWhen she returned home to Plains, she found a card in the mail asking her to speak on herbs at her garden club. But she told me that she knew little about herbs, so she spent the next day or two studying up on them. Then, after having given her lecture and returned home, she talked to the Lord in her room and asked His forgiveness because she had forgotten about Him those days because of her herb preparations. The answer He gave her: "What are you apologizing to Me for? I was co-herbing with you. That was My lecture, not yours!"So we actually are free persons and learn to recognize ourselves as such — free to express our opinions, to make our judgments, to do our jobs, make our choices. Dangerous? It surely looks like that, and others would tell us it is—who don't know the spontaneity of the union. But no danger to us who know our unchangeable oneness. We know that all we do is He, and we live the "dangerous life" of believing .. .which is knowing and thus recognizing that it is all He. We live spontaneously. If we cook, it is He doing the cooking. If we do our job, it is He doing it. If we have conversation, it is He conversing. Union in the Spirit is actual, factual. Where He is,we are. Where we are. He is. No hairbreadth separation between us can ever be possible.