Showing posts with label Romans 8.. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Romans 8.. Show all posts

Sunday, 18 August 2013

Yes I Am 49 - An Intercessor In Marriage

Yes I Am by Norman Grubb
Chapter 49
AN INTERCESSOR IN MARRIAGE

I want to delve a bit more deeply, by way of illustration, into a "more personal" area of intercession, where it touches on the use of our affections.

There is a close friend of mine among the many with whom we are linked in fellowship. She knows who she is: Christ in her human form. Her husband was in a good professional position and a good home-provider, but he showed no outward response to Christianity. The time came when she discovered, as a great shock, that he was having an ongoing adulterous relationship with a married woman. She faced out with the Lord the shock, hurt and resentment. What should she do? Knowing that she was not herself but Christ in her, she knew the difference between her soul hates and resentments and the love she had for her husband in her spirit, for it was God loving him by her; and just as important, she recognized that God meant her husband to be tangled up in his sex life to expose his own need to him. So instead of a marital blowout and possible divorce, she informed her husband that she had found out what was going on, but that she loved him as ever - for he was her husband and she his wife. That shook him! When he expected a blast, he got only a confirmation of her unchanged love. This brought a reply to her which was another shock - a good one. He said, "Well, if that is Christianity, I can listen to it!"

The result was that after some weeks, while she knew the adulterous relationship continued, the moment came when she told her husband that she would like to meet with him and the woman. They agreed. The three met - and surely this would be the time for strong words by my friend. Instead, she just accepted facts as facts (despite her inner hurt) and said to them, "It can’t go on like this. Make the choice. Either go with her and leave me and the children, or break off the relationship and return to me." The husband and the woman both agreed. The severance was made, and he returned home. But far more than that, God has done such a transforming work in him, with repentance and renewal, that he is now a strong witness for Christ and busy helping other men who get caught in that same trap.

This is intercession. With little said about the inner-death way in which she walked - which was the background for her steadfast love, and at the right moment, holy boldness - she gained the intercession by the Spirit Intercessor in her, doubtless with "groanings that cannot be uttered."

Another close friend had an experience somewhat the same. Her husband holds a public position in his profession and is a man who loves the Lord. What a shock when she found out that he had a secret liaison, with visits to a motel, with one who was a close friend in whom she confided.

She first challenged her husband about this adultery over the phone. He is an honest man who knows the Lord, and he admitted his descent into the flesh, and his sin against God and wrong against her. But then he added, "If the woman’s husband learns of this, he is a man of such influence that he could destroy me in my profession." My friend’s answer straightaway to her unfaithful husband was, "I am your wife. If you have a crash professionally, then I crash along with you."

This is intercession. With little said about the inner-death way in which she walked - which was the background for her steadfast love, and at the right moment, holy boldness - she gained the intercession by the Spirit Intercessor in her, doubtless with "groanings that cannot be uttered."
 The result of that was that the husband - who, as I say, knows the Lord - took one big jump of faith right then and there, and he has told me how he moved from being the struggling and defeated man of Romans 7 to the liberated man in Romans 8. He saw "in a flash of the Spirit" that there was no more condemnation, and that he was released "by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus." The result in their marriage is that where there had been an unhappy relationship between them, it has so changed that she now tells me her husband is her best friend!

As for the woman who had so wronged and deceived her, the day my friend first heard of this she called the florist and ordered one white rose in a vase to be sent to her. There was admission of guilt, but it took time for a real heart repentance. But the day came when she plainly told my friend that she had not before really admitted her wrongdoing, and she asked for forgiveness. My friend’s answer: "I need forgiveness just as much from you, because of my hate and resentful attitude towards you." And there was a time of reconciliation.





  • Back to the Foreword or 1st post in the series

Wednesday, 19 December 2012

New Operating System - Windows of Heaven 2013


  • New Hidden Operating System operates Back end below the desktop according to 
  • Galations 2.20 It is now nolonger I that live but Christ who lives in me.
  •  Colossians 3.3 I,that is my real I,my previous backend hidden operating system has crashed and my new operating system is hidden with Christ in God
  • 100% Underwritten Guarantee according to Romans 8 servicing...."Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Windows of Heaven 2013). For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death..... or Proverbs 1 Crashes."
  • Windows of Heaven 2013 is 100% Backwards Compatible and will still operate within most denominations and older apostolic networks, but the Manufacturer recommends running alongside networks using this operating system and calling on the Lord in a Living meaningful way. There is a special Melchizedek Order server for this operating system.
  •  All the gifts of the Spirit and all the fruit of the Spirit run on the system
  • Windows of Heaven 2013 operates in two environments simultanously - the front end Desktop human environment simultaneous with the heavenly server system.Ephesians 2:5 He made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
  • Extra bonus abilities while running this system mean that henceforth we view no other person purely on their Desktop environment BUT AS IF everyone was Running on Windows of Heaven 2013 . 2 Corinthians 5:16 Henceforth we see no person according to their Desktop environment
  • Like the Microsoft alternative, Windows of Heaven 2013 is an entirely self-installing programme, but unlike Microsoft the programme CONTINUES to self-instal for the whole time it's running.It actually unfolds itself according to the development of the programme and doesn't require fresh installation for each stage by the user. 1 John 2 :12 ff  Children,young men,fathers or learners, advanced and software development rewriting and reproduction managers....
  • Windows of Heaven 2013 uses an entirely new operating language known only by users of this programme. It operates in a spirit of thanksgiving and praise and has its own self-instal language ability skill called the gift of tongues (other languages) where the user is able to speak and interpret incredibly deep code usually only used in the heavenly Melchizedek Server environment.
  •  The programme  will rewrite and refresh the whole of your Desktop environment. Waste superfluous desktop items are uninstalled or binned, new desktop environments that are unique to the operating system are developed over time : healing and miracle environments. Repair to fractured programmes. Increasing compatibility and unity with all other Windows of Heaven Server Environment users.
  • The programme comes with its own manual and Help programmes which define and teach you through each stage of written,or digital information.
    John16 :7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the [c]Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.....13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
  • Everything that is needed to link your desktop with the rest of the material world and with the Heavenly Server system is included in the programme free of charge.

Saturday, 7 April 2012

The Birth of a New Consciousness ~ by Sylvia Pearce

forwarded by Merrill Thompson on Thursday, 5 April 2012 at 16:11 ·
The Birth of a New Consciousness ~ by Sylvia Pearce. For more information visit Sylvia's website.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:1)
How can words express the glory that filled Paul’s heart as his spirit leaped in agreement with the Spirit of Life that was in him? The Spirit of Christ had set him free from the downward pulls of the law of sin and death which held him in bondage in his flesh. Paul, in Romans Seven, ends shouting his freedom cry, "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin"(7:25).
Paul finally had the discernment to see that there were two dimensions inside of him. One was the flesh dimension, which he was aware of all of his life, and the other was the Spirit dimension, which was a new reality to him. It was impossible for him to operate in both consciousness’ at the same time. There had to be a severe stripping away of one reality and a radical replacement with the other. Paul says in Philippians 3:7 "I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I might win Christ." And Jesus says that "whosoever will save his life shall lose it: And whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it"(Matt, 16:25).
God’s dealings with the Jewish nation at the Jordan River is a vivid picture of how God deals with Paul. If we can imagine the Jordan River flowing between the last few verses of Romans Seven and the first verse of Romans Eight, we will see Paul’s dilemma. He is standing in the wilderness looking across the Jordan River at the promised place of rest. The obvious question arises. "Will I stay in the miserable, but comfortably familiar
wilderness and not receive my inheritance, or will I leap into the risky unknown and receive what God has promised me?"
This enlightens us, as well as challenges us today. Which consciousness are we going to operate from? Here in Romans Seven, we will either remain in a needy, condemned, "I’ve got to fix myself" consciousness and operate in it, or we will leap into the Spirit dimension and operate by faith as "whole, complete and lacking nothing" (James 1:3). We cannot have both worlds. For "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God"(I Cor. 15:50).
There is glorious freedom awaiting God’s sons upon entering into the new promised land of no condemnation. Yet at the same time this is the place, I dare say, that most Christians get snagged and even stopped. We have never heard that Christ has come back inside of us releasing us from a striving self by giving us his own life of rest. The children of Israel did not enter into rest because of their unbelief. They paid a great price as an example to us. Let us honor their suffering by learning from their example.
God has strong warnings concerning this radical place. "Let us therefore fear, lest a promise being left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it" (Hebrews 4:1). "For we which have believed do enter into rest," as compared to the Israelites who could not enter in because of unbelief. Here in Romans 8, we reach the Jordan River in our consciousness and the penetrating question arises, do we believe what God says to be the truth, or do we believe what appears (feeling and thinking level) to be the truth? The Israelites grieved the Holy Spirit because they erred in their "evil hearts of unbelief" (Hebrews 3:7-19).
Strong language isn't it, yet this is a very serious matter, for we are standing between the bondage of a hellish me, and the freedom of a new me as Christ. Behind us is the Romans Seven desert of striving self which is death, yet before us lies the apparent impossibility of unconquerable giants. How is it possible for me to totally inherit the rest that is promised, when my soul seems so manic one minute and the next minute plummets downward to the depths of despair? My heart is comforted by the scripture knowledge that this Spiritual warfare is normal. Our Lord himself experienced satanic attacks in the wilderness. The Hebrews letter says in 10:32, "after you were illuminated, you endured a great fight of afflictions." And in 4:11, "we are to labor to enter into His rest." This fight and this labor is the simple leap of faith. Yet all hell tells you it is not true.
That is why Romans Eight puts great emphasis on walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh. For we have no condemnation if we "walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." If Paul walks in who he is in Christ, he has no
condemnation, but if he strives to become something by self-effort, he is condemned and under the law.
Walking in the flesh is temporarily revisiting Romans Seven by falling into the trap of believing I "should," I "ought" to try to somehow improve myself, defend myself, or keep myself from evil. The illusionary "I" has reappeared and this "I" is subject to the outer law that it cannot keep. We are always being tempted downward with assaults that pull us back to self-effort: "be more patient, don’t lose your temper, get rid of your evil thoughts, struggle against your lust, solve yourself, and try to fix others." "I am a needy self so I have to DO, DO, DO in order to save myself." This is a lie!
Because I am so used to taking charge of my own life and trying to control myself, I easily slip back into the try and fail dilemma of Romans Seven. God puts us through a painful process of learning how to walk in the Spirit. The way to walk in the Spirit is always by faith. That means we always go back to what the truth is about us: since the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the grave dwells in you, He, the Holy Spirit, will quicken your mortal flesh! For you are not really a flesh being, you are a Spirit being (Romans 8: 9-11). Flesh doesn’t master flesh, but Spirit masters flesh. Someone once said that we all think "we were human beings on a spiritual journey, but in fact we are really Spirit beings on a human journey."

 Walking in the flesh is temporarily revisiting Romans Seven by falling into the trap of believing I "should," I "ought" to try to somehow improve myself, defend myself, or keep myself from evil.


The truth is that the law of Spirit and Life which is Christ as us, has set us free from the law of sin and death (Satan’s bondage in our flesh level). It is already done. For what we could not do for ourselves, Christ did by "condemning sin in our flesh" (Rom. 8:3), thereby freeing us to be joined to our true husband, Christ, who fulfills the "righteousness of the law in us"(8:4).
The Cross defeated the whole satanic reign in our flesh by condemning Satan and putting him behind prison bars, thereby rendering him powerless. Satan is bound but not gagged, for he can still shout accusations at us behind prison bars, which he does constantly (Rev.12:10). This is why we have to learn how to walk in the Spirit truth and not in Satan’s accusing lies.
We must learn not to look at what is seen, for Satan would have us look down at our flesh appearance, which is "the mind set on the flesh." If we do, God promises us that we will die (8:6a). But if we dare look at the unseen and fix our gaze there, we are setting our "minds on the Spirit." That mind-set promises us life and peace (8:6b). Let us shout the victory before it comes into outer manifestation. We can now claim our right not to be
condemned, we will not receive that lie anymore. However we appear, there is "now (present tense) no-condemnation."
We fight by not fighting, just like Jehoshaphat the king, "Ye shall not need to fight in this battle; set yourself, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the Lord "(II Chron. 20:17). Now the onus is on God, for we cannot stop ourselves from striving. God is the one that causes our faith stand to appear in our flesh. However, we are not going to watch for it to happen, for that would be "the mind set on the flesh" again. As far as we are concerned, we are going to accept ourselves as right selves, "whole, complete and lacking nothing." That is the "mind set on the Spirit."
God promises us that if we "walk in the Spirit we shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh"(Gal. 5:24). How do we walk in the Spirit? We just "be" ourselves and expect the Spirit to cause us to walk in God’s ways, "and do them." "I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them" (Ezek. 36:26-27).
The Gospel is an exchange of gods, not an exchange of flesh. There was not one thing wrong with Paul’s flesh, in fact, there never was. Christ won the victory over Satan in Paul’s humanity, at the Cross (Romans 6:6). Therefore the fight is over. We can now leap into the person of Christ as our Victor, and our Rescuer, and our Life. We cease from trying to be our own savior and cannot touch our rescue. We confess with God that it is "not by (our) power, or by (our) might, but by my Spirit saith the Lord"(Zech. 4:6). When you know the truth and agree with God, the lie falls away because it looses its false power. "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free"(John 8:32).
This operation is the total work of the Holy Spirit as He births our consciousness from self-loathing to self-love and self-acceptance, from self-effort to Spirit believing. We cannot touch this process. It is a metamorphosis, somewhat like a butterfly coming out of its cocoon. There is a transformation taking place inside of us as all the false realities die in the brightness of Christ, "the day star," rising in us, as us. Like the butterfly, we shed our grave clothes of false belief in a false self. Every lie drops off with the cocoon in the glory of His coming.
When this happens we do not lose our unique human self with all its faculties and capacities. The grave clothes are not our humanity, but the lies we've believed about our humanity. We were never wrong, we were indwelt by a false god, who misused our precious humanity. What we do lose is the illusion of an independent self we believed in. What we gain is the glory of Christ’s Spirit and my spirit, merges together as one spirit being. It is an
interpenetrating of spirits. So much so, that we don’t know where one stops and the other begins.
Most Christians can say that Christ lives in them, but confessing that Christ is as us is another story. My friend Linda once said that, saying Christ is as us, is "the ultimate form of loving ourselves." We have to take a leap of faith to say it, for it doesn’t seem to be the truth. But until we do take a leap and say, "Christ as us," then we are not accepting the form that Christ is taking as us, and ultimately we are not believing God, for Ephesians 1:5 says: He has "predestined us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of His will to the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He has made us accepted in the beloved." God has accepted us, therefore, we by faith, accept ourselves.
Saying the truth will cause us to suffer though, because on the appearance level it seems untrue. Paul suffered to fully know who he was. We too, will suffer, just like the butterfly suffers as it emerges to its glory. This suffering is the one condition of our being sons. "You are a co-heir if so be that you suffer with him" (Romans 8:17). The perfect God-man, Jesus Christ, was forced into perfection through the things He suffered (Hebrews 2:10). So it is fitting that we also learn the obedience of faith by the things we suffer.

 God promises us that if we "walk in the Spirit we shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh"(Gal. 5:24). How do we walk in the Spirit? We just "be" ourselves and expect the Spirit to cause us to walk in God’s ways, "and do them." "I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them" (Ezek. 36:26-27).



Through all of this metamorphosis, all we have is our word of faith, for all God has is His Word. In fact His Word framed the worlds (Hebrew 11:2). Jesus is called the Word. We are sanctified through "the Word of truth" (John 17:17). Jesus told the centurion he had great faith when he asked Jesus to heal his servant by speaking the word only (Matthew 8:8). Jesus also said, "by your words you shall be justified and by your words you shall be condemned" (Matthew 12:37). And finally, Revelation 12 speaks of that great war in heaven when Satan, the deceiver of the whole world, is cast out. How did the saints overcome him? By the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives unto death. The saints overcame Satan because they put their faith in the finished work of the Cross and stood on their word of faith alone.
This is the declaration of emancipation of the human self! It is revolutionary! All hell screams at us as if we are liars. We fight by not fighting, and by leaping into the person of Christ who is our rest. Satan is the liar and the father of illusions, but we don't judge by appearances, but judge righteous judgment and walk by faith.
Faith is substance, and the substance is within us supernaturally. Faith is not built on reason, it is built on fact. The fact is that we are complete in Christ, lacking nothing (Colosians 2:9-10). All we have is our
word of faith, yet the strength doesn't come from our word. The strength comes from Christ, the one we are putting our faith in. Our word might be very weak, even seeming as small as a mustard seed. But wasn't Abraham's faith small in the beginning? He could only hope when everything looked hopeless (Romans 4:18). We must take heart, for is anything too hard for God?
Second Corinthians 3:18 shows us how to be transformed by the Spirit. It begins in verse 17 by saying, "The Lord is that Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty." This verse is saying that the Holy Spirit will do the work. This frees us from trying to sanctify ourselves. Then it goes on to say in verse 18, "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image: from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord" (II Cor. 3:17-18).
Our only part in this whole process is to just look into a mirror. The question is; do I just see myself alone? Or do I dare to see, by faith, the glory of the Lord in my human form? By simply gazing into the mirror of my true identity, I am changed from glory to glory even by the Spirit of the Lord.
It seems simple, but hell screams at you, telling you the very opposite. That is why the Psalmist says, "He prepares you a table, in the presence of your enemies." God's table is full, filled with the heavenly food of truth, but you must eat it at the accusing finger of our enemy. He does this purposely, for it is His way of fixing us. Opposition forces us to say the truth. If we don't, we die under the weight of hopelessness. Yet even when we are so weak that it seems impossible to say the truth, we can depend on his word in II Tim. 2:13, "If we believe not, yet He abideth faithful; He cannot deny Himself." The glory of the Lord finally comes into being as God "anoints my head with oil, my cup runneth over; Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever" (Psalm 23:5&6).
My husband, Scott, said something interesting the other day about faith. He said, "Faith takes too long for most people, so we have to devise ways to help God get rid of our evils." In a day of micro-wave living with instant everything, we think we need instant answers. But James says, "let patience have her perfect work that you may be perfect and entire, lacking nothing." So actually it is in not seeing that we really learn faith.
Faith does dissolve into knowing however. For faith becomes a settled fact in us, more sure than our outer reality. That is why Jesus said to Peter, "Upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell cannot prevail against it." Inner revelation knowing is unmovable. For what we take by faith becomes a living reality in us.
This process of faith is a miracle. Christ becomes the new free and spontaneous you. You will not be able to explain how it happens because this new life comes from the other side (the Spirit). One day you will look back at your past and wonder what happened to the you who hated yourself so much. As you rise, the old falls away and death has no sting, because you have no more fight. Finally you are then free to love and accept yourself.
God must expose Satan by bringing him to the foreground in Romans 7. Then after Satan’s exposure and defeat in us, he is hardly noticeable in the background, for he is finally put under the feet of Jesus (Hebrews 10:13). Our consciousness is changed from a divided sin-and-devil consciousness to a unified seeing of God only. We never again see Satan as an enemy to be feared. We have overcome him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony (Rev. 12:11). Now, we are as Paul says in Romans 16:19, "simple towards evil," because we see how it fits back into God’s purposes.
We walk on the unseen waters of the truth. The miracle is that what we take must take us, and comes back as an echo inside our consciousness as a confirming witness (I John 5:10). That is when we cry as Paul did in Romans 8, "Abba, Father." The son has possessed his possessions and comes home to the Father within. Job's hopeful cry, "Yet in my flesh shall I see God," races through time and bursts into manifestation in us today.
Paul’s divided consciousness is finally united into the oneness of the mind of Christ. For it is Christ’s own mind manifesting in Paul’s mind. Paul can now begin to see that "the sufferings of this present world" are not worthy of comparison "with the glory that is revealed in us"( 8:18). Even at the fall, we were subjected to suffering and "vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him, who hath subjected the same in hope"(8:20). None of us wanted suffering, but now we can see that God subjected us to it, because the only way we can know God’s grace and glory is in comparison to our sin and suffering.
Even in Paul’s new resurrected life he has suffering. For agony is right, and the opposite end of the authority of faith. Now he is a trustworthy son. For he has gotten himself back as a right self. God can trust him with the intercessions of others Even our groaning and weaknesses are right and part of the price we all pay as intercessors.

 The Gospel is an exchange of gods, not an exchange of flesh.



 We travail and "groan within ourselves with groaning that cannot be uttered." In our weaknesses’ we don’t even know how to pray, but the Spirit helps our infirmities (8:26-27).
The glory of it all is "that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purposes." All
means everything, good or evil, working together as God’s perfect plan to conform us to the image of His Son" (8:28-29).
Finally, Paul ends this chapter by recognizing that he has inherited the very nature of God, which is totally self-giving. His attitude is spontaneously Christ-like. "For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us" (8:36-37). Paul’s concern is instantly for others and how God’s redemptive purposes will be fulfilled through him. Whatever the cost, Paul’s life is for others. If it means peril, tribulation, famine, the sword, or even death, it matters not. For nothing can separate him from God and His love for him. Christ has come back again in Paul to lay his life down for others.
Paul leaves us in Romans Eight in victorious union with Christ, and with sufficiency in all things, no matter what trials our lives might bring. His consciousness changes from a double minded, unstable mind set, to a steady single eye of seeing God only.
So now we have a total Christ in a total and complete human being. As Paul says, "So, Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time (as us) without sin unto completed salvation." Hallelujah, what a Savior!

Monday, 9 January 2012

The Capstone - Summary of Daniel's article by David Aston

David Aston writes a summary of Daniel Yordy's article on the capstone

 Ah..so I read Daniel Yordy's article on the capstone and understand things a bit clearer now!:
"The capstone, the goal of the gospel, the whole point of salvation, the thing we groan for with groanings too deep to be uttered, the goal we forsake everything to pursue, to seize hold of, is THREE facets all found in ONE experience. The first facet is you and I being conformed fully to all the fullness of Christ revealed for all to see. The second facet is you and I being filled with all the fullness and glory of Almighty God without hindrance or limitation. And the third facet is the transformation of our physical bodies - our present physical dying bodies being swallowed up in life and immortality.

All three of these facets are the same thing.

And Paul says that we groan for and long for and reach for and seize hold of this experience - the full salvation of our physical bodies.

God intends to prove His will in our bodies upon this earth. This is where it counts.

You die and go to heaven, and yes, you are with the Lord (but not one ounce more than you are right now) and blessed, but you are out of the picture as far as the goal of salvation is concerned, you have lost the most essential part of your being for salvation, your body, and you are now waiting until those who walk upon this earth see this thing through to the finish, and you, in heaven, continue to groan for and long for the same thing, the restoration of your physical body swallowed up in life and immortality"

Saturday, 9 April 2011

Coming Out of Darkness Part 17 - Gary Sigler

Facebook on Wednesday, 06 April 2011 at 16:03.

God’s Plan




God is El Elyon,(Most High) and He has a plan and a purpose. He placed His Seed not just in you and me. God has placed His Seed in all of humanity. The Gospel of John says that Jesus was the

true light that lights every man that comes into the world (John 1:9). Is this

true or false? Proverbs tells us that the spirit of man is the candle, or lamp,

of the Lord (Prov. 20:27).
Every person has within their being the Seed of

God, and that Seed needs the Divine Sperm to quicken it and regenerate it.

God calls out the Church, reveals Himself to the Church, and then begins to

impart unto the Church His essence, His nature and His character, so that they

in turn can go to the world and bring reconciliation to all of creation.


God has been with us in the wilderness. When we suffer, God suffers. Why? Because, more than you ever realize, God and man truly are one. In the very core, in the very center of your being, lies the Seed of God. And when you are regenerated, that Seed of God is what brings to you the feeling, the emotion, the regeneration of God.

Every person that was ever born is special, but you are not any more special

because you know God than the man who doesn’t. Didn’t Jesus say,
"No man can come unto Me except the Father draw him"

(John 6:44)? Then

how can you take credit? How can you say that the reason you know God is that

you have done certain things, or you haven’t done certain things?
When God

chooses you out of all the people in the world, and for His own plan and

purpose generates His Divine Seed within you, all of a sudden you become aware,

you become conscious of God. Why? It is His plan and His purpose to restore

the creation back to Himself.




Romans 8:21 says that

there will come a day when all of creation shall be loosed from the bondage of

corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Is that true or

not? If you are typical in your Christian thinking, it is not yet true for you.

But who does "all of creation" include? Those who have run to an

altar? Those who have said some words? Sometimes we think it’s a magical

phrase: "Jesus, I receive You." Will there really come a day in the

history of the world when all of creation shall be loosed from the bondage of

corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God? Oh, I can’t wait

for the revelation to come to the Church! We have such a message! We have the

hidden mysteries of the Gospel yet to be revealed.




Our country is in such a

mess, yet even as Christians, we say, "Well, if we could just get rid of

that Obama. If we could just get rid of the whole political system and start

over." But let me tell you that we, you and I, are responsible for what is

happening in Washington today. It’s not Obama’s fault. It’s not the Democratic

Party’s fault. It’s not the Republicans’ fault. The people of God have lost the

revelation of the Father-heart of God, and
we have not become the salt of

the earth. What is the salt of the earth? If I am the salt of the earth, I

am the flavor, and if I am truly salted with His essence, I am absolutely free

to do anything! But in the doing of whatever I do, I am salt, and from

the very essence of my being, something will permeate, and people will be

affected. If you have the essence of God, you don’t have to preach the Gospel,

in the sense of the "religious" Gospel.




I worked at NASA for six

years, and for at least half of that time, I didn’t try to preach the Gospel at

all. But I tried to be the best worker, the best friend. That is a gift that

God has given me, I just love people. But after three years, I mentioned to a

man who worked with me, "John, have you ever been aware of God in your

life?" and this big bruiser of a guy almost hit me. He said, "Don’t

you ever mention that name in my presence again." Because, he said,

"I’ll tell you one thing, Gary. If there is such a thing as a God, I can’t

wait to see Him, and I’ll tell Him, ‘You SOB,’ for the mess that He made this

creation to be." But I want you to know that when I left NASA, this man

had tears in his eyes, and he said, "Gary, all of my life I’ve heard about

the love of God, about, you know, all preaching and this and that," and he

said, "You’re the first person I’ve ever met whom I could say actually has

the love of God and walks in what they say they believe."



You don’t have to preach the Gospel. And if you are around me, you find out that I’m just a joker. I have a lot of fun. Yet I know that deposited within my being, there is such a precious, precious anointing of His love for humanity. Again, does that make me special? NO! No, it doesn’t. As I said, for 13½ years I did everything; I never prayed less than an hour a day. I never read less than ten or twenty chapters of Scripture a day. Yet for 13½ years I was a failure.

Not totally, for I did make some progression, but I wasn’t free. But when I realized that holiness is wherever God is, then God began to speak in small ways and reveal to me, "You’ve been saying for years that Jesus lives in you—don’t you think it’s about time that you became aware of it?" And today, I’m aware of it, but not nearly enough, because when we have the heart of the Father unveiled to us, we will be world-changers.

God is not a bigot. I was taught as a young Christian, "If a Jehovah’s Witness comes to your
door, slam it in his face, because those people really believe what they say, and you will become so deceived." That’s the kind of love that I was taught. And the Mormons? "Oh my God, don’t even get close to those guys!

Some of the things they teach are demonic!" We have no concept of the

Father-heart of God. We don’t really have an experience of what we say we

believe, or we would not be in fear of a Jehovah’s Witness, we would not be in

fear of a Mormon, we wouldn’t teach our kids not to play with the

"JW’s".




If we had the essence of God and we were the salt of the earth, what would we fear? Because we would salt the earth. You really are the salt of the earth. But the Lord said,
"If the salt has lost its flavor . . ."

(Mt. 5:13), and for the most part that is what happened. In 2,000 years, we lost the flavor. The Church isn’t really able to salt that much anymore. What did the Lord say?"It’s good for nothing. It needs to be cast out." Some people will tell you that means that if you lose your salt, you lose your flavor;you’ve lost your salvation and you will go to hell and burn forever. Let me tell you what it really means.
When you lose your saltiness, the fire of God

begins to bring purification. It’s not a negative experience! El Elyon knows just exactly what you need to cause you to bow the knee, just as He knew what it would take to turn Jonah, who was running away from Him.

You are free to do anything you want to do, you are free to turn your back on God. But I have news for you. Try it! Sure, you can make the choice. You are free. But you really don’t have a free will.

Your will is either captivated by the enemy through the fall, or you have given yourself to God. I used to drive out into the desert every morning in California, and I would say, "God, I give you

permission to do whatever it takes. I say to the principalities and powers in heavenly places, I give God permission to do anything He wants to do in my life." I lost my free will. If I ever had it, I lost it then. God became El Elyon to me, whether I liked it, or whether I didn’t. And there have been many times when I didn’t like it. The fire gets hot.


But although we look at these experiences as negative, we have to understand the Father-heart of God. You will be judged, but it won’t be a religious judgment. God is not that big, ugly being up there full of vengeful wrath. I know that the Bible talks about the wrath of God, and I know that the day of His wrath is coming, but the concept of "sinners in the hands of an angry God" is really not the right concept of your Father God. God as your Father will put you through the fire.

What happens to gold if you throw it in the fire? It is purified. Gold, silver and
precious stones. What is in you? The gold. Do you have the Divine Life and
Nature of God, or do you not? If we can say, as the Apostle Peter taught us,
that we have the Divine Life of God in us, then we have the gold, but we will
have to be purified by the fire.

I hope you can hear what I am saying and go a little bit further with it. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezek. 33:11). John said that Jesus would baptize with the
Holy Ghost and with fire (Mt. 3:11). Well, we have taken the Holy Ghost and Pentecost,
but we left off the fire, because the fire isn’t the fun part. But we need the fire, because when we have the heart of the Father unveiled to us, we will be world-changers.

At one time I had a nature that loved all of the wrong things. On the inside of me, I had a desire for God,but my natural character and makeup was much stronger than my desire for God.

So, everywhere I went, ministers would say, "I can’t help you. You have to make a choice. You have to decide, are you going to obey God or obey your flesh?" Well, what am I going to do if my flesh is stronger? I tried obeying God, but it didn’t work. So God put me in the fire.
All of us will go through the fire. Your natural, human character and personality—all of those

human traits that you have inherited from your father Adam, all of the disobedience, all of the erring of your ways, everything in your being that is antichrist (and the Church is full of antichrist today) must be burned. El Elyon will put you in the fire until you come up out of it a pillar of smoke, and this is not just for you alone.

You are only fortunate in this sense of the word: that God is calling you now. God has called us out now to begin to purify us so that we can take the message of reconciliation to the world.

I had a prophecy given to me a few years ago, and when this prophecy was given to me, God spoke right behind it and said, "This word was not for you, this word was for the Church." It was for me, but not just for me. You know what I mean. And the word was this:
"There is going to be a day when people

will look into your eyes and immediately be ushered into the presence of God,

be regenerated, and be filled with the Spirit of God." When that

happens, you’ll know for a surety that we have come up out of the wilderness.

We need to be the offering that is consumed upon the altar by the fire of God, and it hurts. But

you know what was said of Jesus (and you would have this same attitude if you

understood the heart of God), it said that for the joy that was set before Him,

He endured the cross.

Andi f you have the plan of God for your life revealed to you, then for the joy that is set before you, you also will endure the fire!

There is not much talk in the Church today about suffering, but if you will be godly, you will
suffer! And it won’t be by people persecuting you (although that could be a part of it); you are going to suffer in the very essence of your being, because everything in you that you thought was godly is going to be stripped away.

And if you haven’t had this experience yet, there will come a day when God will rip that flesh away from you and let you look at it and see it as it is, and you will realize that, if not for the grace of God, you could be a murderer,you could be a rapist, you have all of the tendencies that any man ever has had in your flesh and you are capable of the most vile acts, were it not for the grace of God."And He will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire"

(Mt. 3:11).

Prayer: Burn Within Us

Father, by the power of Your Holy Spirit, by the very essence of your being, I ask You to burn upon the altars of our hearts. I ask you to send forth that holy fire that would consume every area, every avenue of my thought and my being.

O God, I ask that you would burn, and burn, and burn within my being, and that You would cause the essence of Your being, the Seed of Your Life, that is within me to rise and to stand. O Father, may that Seed of Your Life come forth within Your people!

Lord, we, as the collective Body of Christ, stand undivided. We say,

"Come, O Holy One, come, fire of God, come and burn within our

being."

Father, only You can burn out the rebellion. Only You can burn out the disobedience. It is only by the purifying fire of Your Holy Ghost that we can live and not die. Oh God, bring the fire. El Elyon, reveal to us your Father-heart.

To be continued

Wednesday, 15 December 2010

Part Three - Romans 6 to 8 - Norman Grubb

PART THREE: THE LOST SECRET

Norman Grubb




In this final part of our Romans 6 to 8 -- Paul's key to the liberated life -- let us start by reviewing briefly what has been said in the previous two parts. In essence, the lost secret now revealed is that we humans were never created to be self-dependent or self-operating. There is no such thing as am independent human self. We were marvelously created in God's likeness to function spontaneously as expressers of Himself. Ultimately we will manage His universe as co-heirs with His Son, permanently operating in His perfect other-love nature.

But by the law of the universe, referred to in the previous sections, we understand that nothing can function except by having its opposite, just as light operates by swallowing up darkness. So we can only know and operate of human personhood by being confronted with the opposite: the false deity of the opposite ôsin" nature, which is self-forself.

We started our fallen human lives from the Garden of Eden by being occupied by that false deity and expressing his nature as though it were ours. Then our Saviour Christ, in His other-love nature, took our place as our Last Adam, representing us in His Calvary death and being "made sin" as us. In that death as us, out went that sin-spirit; and in His resurrection as us, in came His Spirit of self-giving love.



COMING HONEST

Paul's main point then, in Romans 6 and 7 has been to expose how we were deluded by Satan into thinking that we were self-operating selves. In actuality, however, it was Satan expressing his self-for-self (sin) nature as us. Then Paul tells us at length how God sent the law with its requirements to expose us when we come honest. We first had to learn that we had not kept the law as lost sinners, and then that we could never keep it because we have never been independent self-relying selves. We were deceived by Satan to think we were, but actually we were only expressers of Satan's self-for-self nature.

In unfolding the value of the law in Romans 7, Paul makes a unique contribution to exposing and removing the main blockage to effective Christian living. At last, in our agony and desperation at our failures, light dawns upon us. We are then capable of seeing that the evil was not in our beautiful, God-created humanity, but in the lie of the independent self (sin dwelling in us). Through Calvary, we now move in by faith to see and recognize that it is He, the Spirit of Truth, expressing Himself in our vessels -- branch containers -- in us and by us, in place of that evil one.

So by faith in the revealed fact, we find ourselves free just to be our human selves with no fears or condemnations. Through the Spirit's certain inner witness, we are expressers of Him: Christ in us as us. And now, after a brief law interlude, we go into chapter 8 of Romans, not as in our walking-Satan forms, but as walking Christs -- "more than conquerors."



A CRISIS MOMENT

Now we move with Paul into Romans 8. Here he comes right out with who he is. What he said he had "reckoned" on in Romans 6:11, he now says he "realizes" (Rom 8:2). The governing principle, "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus," has set him free. So there is a settled knowing. In "reckoning," you SAY it is so; in "knowing," you KNOW it is so. There is a crisis moment. The lives of the great men of the Bible -- Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, David, right through to Jesus Himself -- bear witness to this knowing.

So do I know? And how do I know? I began my new knowing at my new birth, and the Spirit bore witness. Now this is a total knowing. If you have seen this change through Calvary, from being Satan-sin indwelt and Satan expresser to now being Christ indwelt and Christ expresser, then be sure you have spoken the word of faith and recognition, as Paul did. "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus," he says, "has set me free." And in Galatians he proclaims, "I have been crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me."

Say YOUR word now, and say it to someone else! Then what you say echoes back to you, and you know (1 Jn 5:10). Maybe you cannot yet give a date for when you received that knowing, just as I mentioned (in Part II) about Pauline and myself. Only be sure not to pull back, if you do not yet know. What you have said, you have said. You stand on such a word as Galatians 2:20 or Romans 8:2, and God in His time makes you a knower.



THE CHANGE

Now at the summit there is no condemnation. We are freed from that false self guilt, for there is no wrong human self! We are Spirit people in outer bodies. There is nothing to condemn (Rom 8:1). Our human selves are fixed expressions of the Deity Self, where we were formerly fixed expressions of that false deity self. That is the change.

Law (principle) is the way a thing works, and works no other way. We used to be under Satan's law with no escape, and now we are under Christ's law with no escape. There is this change of governing principle controlling our lives. Strong terms! (Rom 8:2). That makes it easy and normal to walk this new way.

On Calvary, Christ put the old sin indweller behind bars on death row (condemned sin in the flesh), from where he is able only to shout at us. That old law standard, which had seemed unattainable, is now our normal way of living -- "the righteousness of the law fulfilled in us" (Rom 8:3,4). This is the Sermon on the Mount top standard of living, and the one who lives it in us is "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus."



SPIRIT PEOPLE

Paul lays unique emphasis on life being the Spirit in us. Nowhere else in the New Testament is this said in such plainness. There are fifteen mentions of the Spirit in Romans 8, in place of those many "I's" in the previous chapter. Paul says, "Get this clear: we are now Spirit people. Christ is living our life. We are walking His way (Rom 8:3). We think His thoughts" (Rom 8:5,6). He in us counteracts those former self-for-self thought patterns, which set us at enmity with God.

"IF you walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh..." Paul begins, for he could not speak our word for us. But speaking for ourselves we say, "SINCE we walk that way..." Again, when Paul says in 8:11, "IF the Spirit dwells in you,..." we say, "He DOES dwell in us." And the Spirit puts those old body habits to death (Rom 8:13).



DAILY LIVING

Because we live in a world of self incitement all around us, to which our normal humanity (our flesh) has been formerly geared to respond, Paul does lay stress on walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh. Does that mean we had better be very careful, for surely we are inclined to flesh walking? The lie again! That would be guarding against independent self uprisings which might respond to those "ought to's." But that is not our Spirit drive. We don't walk fearfully, as if we still plenty of flesh. No! Our human selves are now Spirit kept and Spirit driven.

Certainly there are flesh pulls -- sin's self-for-self nature getting at us through all the world's atmosphere around us. But we don't resist them by any false self-effort. We recognize and admit them, but then we affirm who we ARE and know we are -- Spirit expressers, Christ in our forms; and our faith affirmation puts to death those "deeds of the body" (Rom 8:13). Light swallows up darkness. [See Norman Grubb's leaflet entitled "How to Handle Temptation".]

The Spirit, says Paul, also now permeates our physical bodies, though we remain mortal. The Spirit is the Quickener. So we walk not as body fussers. We accept where there are physical infirmities, but our bodies are His Temples; and in freedom of faith -- not in negative unbelief or foolish questioning -- we often experience His quickenings and healings (8:11).

The normal background to our daily lives is the Spirit's witness with our spirits that we actually are God's children (8:16). By the Spirit we are at home now with our Father/"Daddy," which is very difficult from our former fears of Him in our old false self-condemning life (8:15). We are naturally Spirit-led in the affairs and decisions of our lives, and take that for granted (8:14).



PERMANENT TENSION

From the moment in Romans 8:17 when he opens up the incredible destiny of us humans being co-inheritors of the universe with God's Son, Paul changes the tone of what we are to experience in our daily lives. This comes as a shock, until we see at the end of the chapter that those are devastating conditions in which we, as sons, operate triumphantly as "summit" people.

For the glory living, which will be our permanency through eternity, is first built strongly on a continual "suffering" condition. That sounds terrifying, until we find by experience that there is glory now in the suffering (Rom 5:3-5). The coming "exceeding weight of glory" is the product of these earthly "afflictions," which Paul called "light"! (2 Cor 4:17). These "sufferings" are first on a physical level. Face it, Paul says, the animal and material creation around us is engulfed in suffering -- "red in tooth and claw" -- living in permanent tension. And that, Paul continues, is a Godordained necessary opposite to the "glorious liberty," which will swallow up the "groanings." The deliverance will come through the sons of God, but the methods are not explained in detail (8:19-22).

Then Paul makes very plain that physical perfection on our human body level is not for our present life: a warning note to those who offer complete physical healings and major on a physical healing ministry. Paul tells us that our bodies remain corrupted and mortal. The replacement of corruption by incorruption is only at the Lord's coming (1 Corinthians 15:42-44;52-55). meanwhile, let's not fool ourselves on the physical level. We "suffer" with all the creation, and our "salvation" on that level is by hope, not faith. It is a prospect not within our present reach (8:23-25).



UNSHAKABLE CONFIDENCE

Added to the physical sufferings, we live in a sea of frustration of every kind, and inhibitions we cannot handle by ourselves. We are "compassed by infirmity" and "groan" in distressing experiences, about which we do not even know how to pray for deliverances (8:26-27).

Obviously, Paul is now speaking of the varied disturbed conditions of our daily living: not just the physical, but family problems, economic shocks, fatalities, social problems in our communities, crying needs of every kind, malicious personal hurts, family losses, and whatnot.

In these distresses we "groan"; but we people of the Spirit know that the Spirit Himself is carrying our groanings to the Father in intercession. This gives us our one solid unshakable confidence that, however totally confusing and apparently humanly inextricable, ALL THESE THINGS are actually working out for GOOD. Meanwhile we love our God, no matter how painful the situations, because we know the path of our calling, with outcomes always GOOD, GOOD, GOOD! What a word of faith, which has upheld millions! We might say that the air is full of verbal quotings of Romans 8:28, that great favourite.



TRAINING YEARS

Then Paul goes a glorious step further. He opens up the hidden purpose behind our sufferings and disturbed conditions. "Your destiny is to be a Co-Son with the Son in the development of His vast universal inheritance!" So these are necessary TRAINING YEARS on earth. "You have begun recognizing and realizing that you already are Christ in your human form (Gal. 2:20; Col 3:4); and it is necessary that you are brought, by the maturing grace of the indwelling Spirit, to exact conformity to Him." What a destiny! What a conformity, which John also foresaw (1 Jn 3:2). So there is a steady gradual conforming process in action by the Spirit, who is already indissolubly joined to our spirit (1 Cor 6:17). And we are being "changed into His likeness from glory to glory" (2 Cor 3:18).

We must not confuse God's transforming operations, taking place in us through those constant trials and pressures (which James said are used to establish us "perfect, wanting nothing" [Ja 1:2-4]), with the total basic transformation already taken place. We escaped from the lying independent self outlook of Romans 7 into the permanent liberation of Romans 8:1-2 by our faith recognition of the finished work on Calvary. Growth in conforming us to the image of Christ, which Paul is now speaking about (8:29), is the spontaneous development of Christ fixed in us as us: union fact.

Folks often do try to escape the necessity of the crisis and exchange of the independent self lie of Romans 7 for that glorious fact of Christ having replaced Satan as the fixed one now living our lives, by majoring on the subsequent changes conforming us to His likeness. These changes are constantly taking place in us merely as products of that crisis. They are not to be mistaken for it or used as a gradual improvement method, as though to escape from the rugged confronting of the necessary faith crisis.



POINTING FINGERS

Se we go on now, Paul says (8:30-39), through these processes being fulfilled in us under the cloak of human pressures. We are being conformed marvelously through predestination, justification, even to present glorification (8:29,30). There is a glory even in our attitudes and on our faces, which really glow like Moses as he came down from the Mount; and others see it. And in this transforming process we are bold. We take ourselves to be blameless as God's chosen ones. We neither live in false selfcondemnation (8:1), nor are we disturbed by the pointing finger of others: certainly not of the world, but also not of our brethren.

We all need to learn plenty about not pointing fingers at our brothers in Christ, when we may think they don't measure up. See Christ in our brothers, and leave the Great Transformer to get on with His transforming work in them as in us. Where anything does disturb us, let our contribution be faith in God-in-action in our brother (8:31,33,34). We need a new quality of boldness, both about who we NOW ARE -- walking Christs in place of walking Satans -- and of saying and seeing the same faith of our Christ-indwelt brethren!



"MT. EVEREST" SCALED

The conforming process also includes appearances of need sand necessities of life abundantly supplied by Him, who "spared not His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all" (8:32). But does Paul sum up his great victory chapter by our being immersed in a sea of prosperity and popularity? Just the opposite! His summation includes the rough, rough seas of every form of outer distress, persecution, material necessity, and subjective assault -- "killed all the day long" and "accounted as sheep for the slaughter." Constant physical dangers dogged Paul, and today most likely face modern-day oppositions to our "pilgrim" walk, and experience, as did Paul, by lost reputations as Christ's fools (8:35,36).

Do we wilt? Do we question, "Why does God allow that?" Do we murmur about hard experiences, manifesting more disturbed feelings than enjoyment and praise? Paul used just one word: "conquerors." He stands, as it were, on HIS Mt. Everest, having scaled the jagged peaks of suffering and persecution (2 Cor 11:21-31) which had defied his ascent. How? Because it was Christ in Paul's form. A prisoner of Nero? No, a prisoner of the Lord; and his fiery trials were called the "sufferings of Christ" (1 Pet 4L12,13). Even Jesus Himself, when suffering came to Him by Satan's agents, called it "the cup which my Father hath given me" (Jn 18:11).



"COME ON UP"

So by faith we see Christ in the garments of our outer tragedies and maltreatments, and stand on OUR Everest summit as "conquerors." And more than standing as "conquerors," Paul says we stand as "MORE than conquerors" (8:37). We have the extra -- "the cups running over" -- to help others climb their summits, when our own inner conquests are complete.

To all toiling climbers, we call out, "Come on up. Drop your heavy equipment." We invite them to step out by faith right where they are now, and they will find by a miracle, grace leap that they are already on the Summit. Christ has already carried them there in His own crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension two thousand years ago. And the Spirit, Who came at Pentecost, will cause them to know their eternal inseparable love-union with the Father and Christ living in them as them -- MORE THAN CONQUERORS!



TO SUM IT UP

The main point has been the startling discovery that we have had really only one problem since the fall of man, and that has been our vast delusion about ourselves -- the lie of Satan concerning his own independence which he has imparted to us concerning ourselves. As a consequence, even when we are sinners saved by grace and in the new birth of the Spirit, and we have been taken further in the sixth chapter to know that through Christ's death and resurrection the control of us by Satan in his sin nature has been replaced by the control of Christ, we still deludedly regard ourselves as independent persons responsible for living our new way of life and therefore equally responsible for living our new way of life and therefore equally responsible for discarding the old.

The shock then comes when Paul says that old way of life will have no further control over us because we are "not under the law, but under grace." But our immediate reaction is, "Why, that is putting the cart before the horse! Don't we need the law to stop us from responding to the pulls of that old life? Take away the law and we shall be caught out again." "Not so," says Paul. "The opposite is true. Your great basic deception is that we are self-managed selves. Therefore what the law will do while you are still under that delusion, is to expose your helplessness and that you never were created to manage yourself, and your old sin-manager will take advantage of the law to show you that you can't obey it, but keep obeying him. But because you are too blind to see this until we have been shocked into it, first I will show you some facts."

Then Paul drives that home by three illustrations which certainly settles the matter when our eyes are sufficiently opened to see these facts; but actually they are not until we have had the necessary radical shock. But anyhow here are those three plain facts. First, we all are slaves and therefore compelled to do what our owner demands of us, and there is no middle condition in which we are just independent free humans. Second, we are branches and bear the fruit f the tree of which we are a part, and there is no such thing as we being independent, and not branches of either of the trees. Third, we are married wives under the marriage bond of our husbands and bearing his children. If our marriage is dissolved by the death of either husband, then we are immediately married to the other husband. We never were just single and unmarried. All of these illustrations, of course, mean that we are slaves, branches, wives, formerly of Satan in his sin nature, but now are the same to Christ in His holy nature, and there never has been a JUST OURSELVES in imaginary activities of our own.

But that point must be driven home never to arise again -- that in actual fact we never were self-operating and never did or could manage our own affairs: and it was in that point the Satan has so grossly deluded us, as he himself is deluded. So that shock has to come, as Paul tells of it in his own experience, and the means in his own experience was the impact of that pouter law on him. So down came the law on newborn Paul in it tenth "Thou shalt not covet" commandment: and because he was very much alive to that illusion of independence, back came his quick response, "Of course I won't and don't covet. I am a new man in Christ." And he found all kinds of what he called "concupiscence" very much alive in him which he could not resist. He surely fell flat on his face and called himself a "slain man."

But Paul had made a unique discovery, to which he refers as his special revelation in his Galatian letter, when he spent three years alone in the Arabian desert. It was that there is this sin virus deposited in us since the Fall (to which he refers in Romans 5:12-21), and that as our Lord Jesus Christ has represented us on the cross, His body was as ours in God's sight, as though the sin-expresser just like ours ("made sin"); and when he died, out went that sin spirit and so out out of us, and in the tomb in His resurrection in came His own Spirit, and so into us. Now with the impact of the law and his inability to obey it through the apparent power of indwelling sin, he saw the great lie of the independent self, and that he was only able to respond to the drives of the false deity in him and the lusts, and it was the impact of the law with its demands that awakened him to this delusion. But now he also saw the great deceit of sin on him, because in Christ the sin-indweller had been replaced by the Holy Spirit indweller, which had been revealed to him in Arabia. So now suddenly he saw his freedom. All he had to do was to recognize and affirm as fact in himself that "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death," and now the Spirit already in him since his new birth inwardly confirmed that to him.

So the key had been turned in the lock by the exposure of the lie of independent self through the law. This was the great value of the law for him and us. The claims of the law exposed the lie of his supposed ability to respond to it as though independent. The other lie now exposed to his new born self was that sin power still had its right and presence in him. No. "Dead to sin" in Christ and now alive in Christ to live by the Spirit.

As simple as that when the law had done its Romans 7 work by forcing Paul to find that there never was a Paul-self who could obey that law, and this his Arabian revelation of the body death of Jesus representing us and body resurrection, took Paul right out of Romans 7 into Romans 8 liberty. Then he shares what follows as the fruit of that liberty outlined in chapter 8 in the Spirit-operated life, in the glory of the family relationship with the Father and the Son, the sharing of the eternal inheritance, and the present prolonged period in which we still have the full impact of the consequences of the Fall on our humanity and world conditions, and live the life of overcoming faith, as Jesus Himself did. The sufferings of this present life give us our great constant opportunities for the conquests of faith in every kind of adverse conditions. In the walk and warfare of faith we are experiencing new ways of proving the goodness of God in all kinds of deliverances, though sometimes the highest is that martyrdom and extremity of suffering in the faith of the resurrection, as is says in Hebrews 11:35-38, "of whom the world was not worthy": and in all these the watching hungry world is seeing the inner victories outwardly demonstrated in peace, joy, hope, faith, and love for our enemies, by which Christ is manifested in our bodies "whether by life or by death," and countless others have been inspired to follow the same way.

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APPENDIX

The Liberating Secret’s Scriptural Basis

We desire to teach a clear Biblical presentation of historic Christian truth.
Basic goals:
Gal. 4:19—“Until Christ be formed in you”
2 Cor. 4:10,11—“that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body (mortal flesh).”
1 John 2:13,14—“fathers, because you have known him from the beginning.”
Hebrews 6:1—Leaving the first principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection.

Creator God, the One Independent Person in the Universe.
Isa. 45:6—“I am the Lord, and there is none else.”
1 Tim. 1:17—“the King eternal, immortal, invisible”
1 Tim. 6:16—“Whom no man hath seen, nor can see”
John 4:24—“God is Spirit”
1 Cor. 2:10,11—“only the Spirit of God knows the things of God.
Heb. 12:9—“be in subjection unto the Father of spirits and live.
God, and only God is independent; autonomous; self-existent; self-empowering; and self-generating. God’s essence is Spirit and God’s nature is Agape love.

The Creature, Man is a Derivative of God and a Dependent Being. Man is only a receiver, and not a producer.
2 Cor. 6:16—“Ye are the temple of the living God”
John 15:4,5—“I am the vine, you are the branch”
1 Cor. 12:12; Eph 5:23b “all members of one body”
2 Cor. 4:7—“We are this treasure in earthen vessels”
Rom. 6:16,22—“Slaves of righteousness”
Rom. 7 1-3—“Ye should be married to another.”

God is fixed, forever being only other love, while Satan is fixed and can only be self centered and for himself.

God is a Fixed Lover and Lamb:
Titus 1:2, Heb. 6:8—“God cannot lie”
1 John 4:8—“God is love.”
John 3:16—“For God so loved that he gave his son.”
John 1:29—“The Lamb of God who takes away sin.”

Satan is a Fixed Devil:
Eze. 28:13-18—“until iniquity was found in thee.”
Isa. 14:14—“I will be like the most High God.”
Isa. 14:15—“yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.”
Ezek. 28:16—“I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God and I will destroy thee”

Satan’s Entrance into Humanity and his Role in God’s Plan.
Rev. 12:9—“the great Dragon, that old serpent, Devil, and Satan who deceives the whole world.”
Rom. 8:20,21--God “subjected the creation unto vanity in hope of delivering them from the bondage of corruption into glorious liberty of the sons of God.”
Rom. 11:32—“For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.”
1 Cor. 11:19—“There must be heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.”
Heb. 5:8—“Though he were a son, yet he learned obedience by the things he suffered.”
Matt. 4:3—“Jesus was led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Mark 1:12—“The Spirit drove him into the wilderness.”

The Garden of Eden:
Gen. 2:7—God’s perfect man.
Gen. 2:8—God’s perfect garden.
Gen. 3:1--God’s serpent
Rom. 8:20—“the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope.”
Gen. 3:14-17—God cursed Satan, not man.”

God Means Evil, not just Permits it.
Isa. 45:7—“I form light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.” God created the possible of evil when he created free beings.
Gen. 50:20—“You thought evil against me, but God meant it for good.”
Isa. 10:5—“Assyria, the rod of my anger”
Isa. 45:3—“I will give you the treasures of darkness.”
Exodus 4:11—“Who made the dumb, or the deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? Is it not I, the Lord?
Job 12:16—“the deceived and the deceiver are his.”
Jer. 42:10—“the evil which I did to you.”

The Results of Mankind’s Fall.
John 3:19-21—“light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light.”
Eph. 2:1—“Dead in trespasses and sins.”
Eph. 2:2—“the spirit that works in children of disobedience.”
Eph. 2:1-3—“they were by nature children of wrath.”
Rom. 1:27—“received in themselves the recompense of their error”
Act 13:46—“judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life”
1 John 3:10—“Children of the devil.”
John 8:44—“Ye are of your father the devil.”
Rom. 6:17—“Slaves of sin.”
1 Peter 3:19—“Spirits in prison.”
Rom. 9:23—“Vessels of wrath.”

God’s Provision in Christ Unfolds in Two Stages of Restoration.
Christ’s Precious Blood
Col. 1:14—“Through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins.”
Col. 1:20—“the blood of his cross to reconcile all things.”
Rom. 3:24,25—“Justified freely by his grace, through faith in his blood.”
Rom. 5:1—“Peace with God by his blood.”
1 Peter 1:18-20—“Redeemed by the precious blood of Christ.”
Heb. 10:12—“One sacrifice for sins forever.”

Christ’s Broken Body (Exchanged life)
2 Cor. 5:21—“Christ was made sin.”
Rom. 6:2—“Dead to sin.”
Rom. 6:3—“Baptized into His death.”
Rom. 6:6—“The old man is crucified that the body of sin might be destroyed.”
Rom. 7:4—“Dead to the law by the body of Christ.”
Col. 2:11—“We are circumcised with Christ, putting of the body of sins.”
Gal. 2:20—“I live, yet not I, but Christ”
Eph. 2:6—“raised us up together, and made us to sit together in heavenly places.”
Col. 1:22—“In the body of his flesh to present you holy, unblameable and unreprovable.”
Rom. 6:7—“He that is dead is freed from sin.”
Rom. 6:9—“Death hath no more dominion over you.”
2 Peter 8:1—“We are partakers of the divine nature.”

The Three Levels of Maturity.
(1 John 2:12-14)
Little Children Young Men Fathers
God as Savior God as power God as person
John 3:16 Gal. 2:20 John 7:36
Sins are forgiven Exchange life Intercessor
Galatians Colossians Ephesians
Crucifixion Raised Ascension
Moses Joshua Melchisedec
Rom. 1-5 Rom. 6-8 Rom. 9-15

The Replaced Life--We Cannot Have Two Natures At Once.
Rom. 7:1-4—We can only be married to one wife at a time.
1 John 4:4—“He that is in this world, and he that is in us.”
1 John 4:6—“Spirit of truth, and Spirit of error.”
1 John 3 :10—“Child of the devil, child of God.”
John 8:44—Satan was our father.
2 Peter 1:4—“we are partakers of divine nature.”
Col. 3:9—“we have put off the old man.”
Col. 3:10—“We have put on the new man.”

Deceived Self-Life (Acting as if the human has his own nature).
Rom. 7:11—“Sin has deceived me.”
Rom. 7:15,16—“What I hate, that I do.”
Rom. 7:21—“When I would do good, evil is present with me.”
Rom. 7:18—“How to perform that which is good, I find not.”
Rom. 7:24—“Old wretched man who shall deliver me.”
Gal. 5:17—“The flesh lusteth against the Spirit.”
Rom. 8:5—“They that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh.”
Rom. 8:8—“They that are in the flesh cannot please God.”
Rom. 8:13—“If you live after the flesh, you shall die.”

The Lie Exposed:
Rom. 7:17 & 20—“No more I that do it, but sin dwelling in me.” Satan is the culprit

The Leap of Faith
Rom. 7:25—“I serve with my new mind in Christ.”
Rom. 8:2—“Christ has set me free from the law of sin and death.”

Spirit/Soul Differences
1 Thes. 5:23—“Sanctify body, soul and spirit.”
Matt. 11:28,29—“There is a rest for our souls
Heb. 4:13—“Sabbath rest for the people of God”
Heb. 4:13—“Dividing soul from Spirit, joints and marrow, thoughts and intents of heart.”
Rom. 7:25—“I myself with my mind am serving the law of God.”
Matt. 26:39—“Not my will, but thine.”

Temptation
Heb. 2:18—“He himself hath suffered being tempted”
Heb. 4:15—“”In all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”
Heb. 5:8—“Yet learned he obedience by the things he suffered.”
James 1:2—“Count it all joy when you are tempted.”
James 1:14—“Man is tempted when he is drawn away by his own lust and enticed.”
James 1:15—“When lust has conceived.”

Seeing With the Single Eye of Faith
Matt. 6:22,23—“If thine eye be single, thy whole body is full of light.
Matt. 5:8—“Blessed are the pure in heart.”
Titus 1:15—“To the pure all things are pure
1 Thes. 5:18—“In everything give thanks.”
Eph. 1:11—“Him who works all things after the council of his own will.”
Job 1:8—God said to Satan, “Have you considered by servant Job?”
2 Cor. 4:6—“God commanded the light to shine out of darkness.”
Rom. 4:17—“Call the things that be not as though they already were.”
Zeph 3:15—“We shall not see evil anymore.”

Sons in Spirit Action by the Word of Faith
Ex. 14:15—“Why cry to me Moses, tell the sons of Israel to go forward.”
John 7:38—“Out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.”
John 7:24—“Judge not according to the appearances, but judge righteous judgment.”
Heb. 11:1—“Faith is the substance.”
Col. 1:29—“I labor, striving according to his working, which works in me mightily.”
Gal 2:8—“God is mighty in me towards the gentiles.”

Spirit Prayer
Isa. 65:24—“Before they call, I will answer.”
Matt. 16:19—“Whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.”
John 20:23—“Whosoever sins you remit, they are remitted.”
Mark 11:24—“What things so ever you desire, when you pray, believe and you shall have whatsoever you say.”

Speaking the Creative Word of Faith
Gen. 1:3—“Let there be light.”
Gen. 22:5—“I and the lad will go yonder and worship and come again to you.”
Num. 13:30—“Let us go up at once, and possess it.”
2 Kings 6:16—“”They that be with us are more than they that be with them.”
John 11:43—“Lazarus, come forth.”
2 Cor. 4:6—“God commanded the light to shine out of darkness.”
Rom. 4:17—“Call the things that be not as though they were.”
Rom. 11:1—“Faith is the substance of things hoped for.”
Rom. 11:3—“Through faith the worlds were framed by the word of God.”

The Life of an Intercessor
Ezek. 22:30—“I sought for a man among them to stand in the gap”
Isa. 53:4—“Born our grief, carried our sorrows”
Col. 1:24—“Fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ.
Phil. 3:10—“The fellowship of His suffering, being made conformable unto His death.”
Rom. 8:32—“He spared not his own son, how shall he spare us?”
Rom. 8:36—“We are killed all the day long-sheep to the slaughter, yet more than conquerors.
2Cor. 4:10—“Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus.
2 Cor. 4:12—“So then death works in us, but life you.”
Ex. 32:-32—“Blot me out of thy book which thy has written.”
Rom. 9:1—“I wish that myself were accursed for my brethren sake.”
Rom. 12:2—“Present you bodies a living sacrifice.”
Rom. 15:2—“Bear the infirmities of the weak.”
Rom. 15:3—“The reproaches of them fell on me.”
Gal. 6:2—“Bear one another’s burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ.”
Ezek. 4:5—“I have laid on thee the years of their iniquity.”

Commission: The Call
Ex. 3:10—“I will send thee unto Pharaoh
Jud. 6:14—“Have I not sent you?”
Isa. 6:9—“Go, and tell this people.”
John 1:6—“there was a man sent from God.”
Acts 9:15—“he is a chosen vessel to me.”

The Bodily Cost:
Isa. 53:12—“He has poured out his soul into death.”
2 Cor. 1:8—“We were pressed out of measure above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life.”
2 Cor. 1:9—“We had the sentence of death in ourselves.”
2 Cor. 2:4—“Out of much affliction and anguish of heart.”
Phil.1:29—“But also to suffer for his sake.”
2 Cor. 7:5—“Our flesh had no rest, but we were troubled on every side without were fightings, within were fears.”
2 Cor. 6:4-10—“in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, in stripes in imprisonments in tumults, in labors, in watching in fastings, by honor, by dishonor, by evil report, by good report, as deceivers and yet true; as unknown and yet well known, as dying and behold we live; as chastened, and not killed. As sorrowful, yet always rejoicing, as poor, yet making many rich, as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.”
2 Cor. 11:23-27—“In labors, in strips, in prisons, in stoning, in shipwreck, a night and a day in the deep; in journey often, in perils in waters, and by robbers, in perils by my own courtrymen, by heathen, in perils in cities, in wilderness, in the sea, among false brethren, in weariness and painfulness, in hunger, thirst, in cold and nakedness.

Completion and Fruit Bearing
Heb. 2:10—“Bring many sons to glory”
John 12:24—“If it die, it brings forth much fruit.”
John 15:16—“He has chosen you to bring forth fruit and that your fruit should remain.”
Prov. 11:30—“The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life.”
2 Cor. 4:12—“Death works in me, life in you.”
"Faith Laughs at the Impossible and Shouts it Shall Be Done"



Sunday, 15 August 2010

The Purpose of Prophecy - Almost a Non-answer

Purpose of Prophecy - Almost a non-answer - Chris Welch on Friday, 06 August 2010 at 15:32 Facebook
Paul Noble posed the question in Prophetic Voice: What is the Purpose of Prophecy?
To me, while the whole church is still waking up to realising there is a whole new stage emerging,it is almost the wrong question. Almost like asking a parent whether we can see a film today, when what we are actually doing is moving house.

http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2010/07/bbc-series-victorian-pharmacy-managing.html is a good starting place for beginning to reply on the purpose of prophecy.
The Victorian Pharmacy is an analogy for church that still believes in the "independent self". That there's us as a self, empowered by goodness knows what...self energy or something, then on either side of us there is doing the right thing with the Holy Spirit's help, or doing the wrong thing and falling into sin. This, like the said pharmacy is how we run our whole operation until better science arrives. In the case of the Pharmacy it is discoveries in bacteria and how disease works scientifically. In the church's case it is the rediscovery of Genesis 3 and what originally went wrong, and exactly how it went wrong.
Nearly all charismatic church operations work on the old system : the independent self.
Which incidentally is why prophets have such a hard time. They tend to move on instinct a lot, and almost right from the word go, as soon as they are baptised in the Spirit, they get gut feedback that something isn't right...but in a charismatic framework, never get to find out quite why.
Romans was the last of Paul's teaching letters so he'd had a lot of practice releasing the Word by then. It is incredibly precise. It is much more precise than charismatics realise. Charismatics use Romans Chapters 3,4,and 5 rightly on the subject of grace, then as if Paul is repeating himself, begin again at 6, and rehash the same teaching as before.
It IS NOT the same teaching. 3,4 and 5 is about THE BLOOD completely justifying us. 6 and 7 is about how we operate ...or rather don't operate in daily life ONCE WE have gone through 3,4 and 5. It concerns Jesus' BODY death. The blood is not mentioned. A full understanding of this can be read in "Yes I am" by Norman Grubb.
Until churches "get " Romans 6-8 the only tools they have available are the charismatic tools of "The Promises of Deuteronomy 28" together with all sorts of other promises scattered throughout the Word. Because these verses , belief and confession all have power, all of us can testify to amazing things that have happened to us in the charismatic church. The whole of the 80s and 90s American sattellite TV was based on this.
But according to the Bible and specifically St John this is "young men stage church".
(men and women included ofcourse).
Father stage church we are told is for those who "KNOW (union word) Him who is from the beginning."
They have passed through the reckoning stages of Romans 6 and 7 and have discovered the total balderdash lie of Satan's hoax "the independent self". They now know they are Christ as them, in their form, in their personalities and bodies. As Jesus promised in the Upper room in John 17.
----------------------
The ramifications for prophecy are huge.
Charismatic churches only believe we can get so far on this earth. In the Spirit, if not verbally, they declare Jesus words in John 17 to be a lie. I must stress this is a hidden thing, everyone would be appalled if they knew it true...but in the Spirit they are calling Jesus a liar.And most of this is coming from holding on so erroneously but firmly to the desperate delusion of "independant self". There is no either/ or in this. If any part of you still believes in the independent self, in just that area, Satan is able to paralyse the life of Christ in you, and prevent it from fully forming.
This then affects church prophecy. Most common prophecy is about Jesus hooking us out of this mess because we cannot cope.
Biblical prophecy is about us being Overcomers. There is a big difference. Romans 8 is about us proving the love of God right here right now in the midst of prison, persecution, hatred, lies. We actually get to experience the wonder of God coming through for us in the worst of situations, such that everyone wonders at the Presence of God in our lives. But we laugh...because it is Him. Death has worked in us so that His Life can come forth.

No prophet if genuine, is entirely in charge of the content of his message. He/she will prophecy with amazing accuracy things that are way beyond their present understanding. Peter, on the day of Pentecost, preached very clearly about Gentiles coming in....but had to be re-convinced later through a trance. So, actually, much of the charismatic prophecies given where people really hunger after God's Presence are in fact incredibly accurate. The problem with charismatics are when they are not prophesying. Not worshipping. Just rabbiting on under their own steam, with their own understanding.

So to sum up. Prophecy in the Old Testament, in charismatic churches, and in the Emerging Church may not change too much, since it is dependant on the wonderful Holy Spirit giving the burden,and the message.Certain aspects of Pharmacy life were left unchanged by science, and some of the same remedies are still used today. But if anyone tried to tell you that this proves everything is as it always was...well no historian would refrain from bursting out laughing.
If you as prophets think all the charismatic church needs is a few tweaks here and there, well you just haven't seen Romans 6-8 properly yet.

Our world needs places that manifest God's Kingdom of Love....and this is what Kanaan (Darmstadt Community) is all about

When Romans 8 says the whole of creation is groaning/in labour/waiting expectantly for the sons of God to come into their inheritance....you can see there's some amazing things up ahead!!!
When I first started learning this stuff at age 16 in Darmstadt Frankfurt with Mother Basilea Schlink , I was looking at their trees, their fish,their fruit,their buildings, their quality of life. Already a bit of creation was getting released. Huge ripe fruit. Big big fish. Imagine what happens when the church at large "get" this stuff big time??

One spinoff in Romans is that the Jews will get jealous, and be provoked into recognising the Messiah. So, history is locked into the fulfilment of these understandings.