WHAT ELSE IS THERE?“ Rich Novak and comment by Chris Welch

Facebook note Sunday 13th June 2010 by Rich Novak

If God be for us…. then who can be against us?” If Christ is truly All and is in ALL according to Colossians 3:11, then........

WHAT ELSE IS THERE?

Everything is Him in some manifestation, form, or expression, and all of it originated from the Eternal thought of the Father which is found in John chapter 17;

“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that “ALL OF THEM MAY BE ONE”…….. Father, just as YOU ARE IN ME AND I AM IN YOU. May they also be in us, SO THAT, THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, SO THAT, THEY MAY BE ONE EVEN AS YOU AND I ARE ONE: I IN THEM AND YOU IN ME! May they be brought to COMPLETE UNITY to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. "Father, I want those you have given me TO BE WITH ME WHERE I AM, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.” (John 17:20-24)

This has become one of my favorite passages of scripture! There is a passion in this dialogue of Christ with His Father that is hard to miss!

This is Jesus “open and laid bare”, bearing the deepest desire of His heart, the original thought of the FATHER……. SEEING ONLY GOD IN ALL THINGS! "THAT THEY MAY BE ONE AS YOU AND I ARE ONE, YOU ARE IN ME, AND I AM IN YOU!"

What is the reason behind Jesus passionate plea for THE WORLD to believe? For God so loved the WORLD, He gave His ONLY begotten Son! (John 3:16)

Looking at the ONE Word, we see ONLY HIM! “If your eye is SINGLE it is full of light, but if your eye is EVIL (I always thought double was the opposite of single?) it is full of darkness. And if that light in you be darkness, then how great is that darkness?”

Here “EVIL” is equated with seeing "TWO" in the same way “EVIL” is equated to an "UNBELIEVING HEART" in Hebrews chapter 3!

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. (Hebrews 3:12)

“The light of the body is the eye: therefore when THINE EYE IS SINGLE, thy whole body also is FULL OF LIGHT; but when THINE EYE IS EVIL, thy body also is FULL OF DARKNESS.” (Luke 11:34)

“If therefore the light that is in thee be DARKNESS, how great (dark) is that DARKNESS!” (Mathew 6:23)

“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other! You cannot serve God and wealth (or any other God “AND”…….combination for that matter).

Man was specifically designed to successfully serve and worship only one God at one time! It doesn’t matter what you think, we were created in the image of Christ, and He could only do that (one thing) which he saw His Father doing, and we can do no different!

Seeing more than God in any given set of circumstances creates what the Bible calls “The Dividing Wall of Hostility.”

“For He himself is our peace, WHO HAS MADE THE TWO ONE, and has destroyed the barrier, THE DIVIDING WALL OF HOSTILITY, by abolishing in his flesh the law (of sin and death) with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to CREATE IN HIMSELF ONE NEW MAN OUT OF THE TWO, THUS MAKING PEACE, AND IN THIS ONE BODY TO RECONCILE BOTH OF THEM TO GOD THROUGH THE CROSS, BY WHICH HE PUT TO DEATH THEIR (our) HOSTILITY.

The DIVIDING wall? Is it possible for us to see a DIVIDING WALL, or any other divided “anything”……… if we are seeing ONLY ONE? If the wall is a dividing wall, itself being the reason for the ONE becoming two…….then the ONLY conclusion in seeing more than God is a manifestation of hostility in some form or expression! In our seeing "two or more" in any given circumstance, we ourselves end up creating the conflict, war, turmoil, strife, fear, distrust, anger, depression, lack, frustration, isolation, and the list goes on…….. ad nauseum!

It took me years to learn what the book of James was about. Because I could only discern it based on the "separated gospel" of seeing more than God, James became to me the ultimate doers manual for right Christian living! And in my discerning James through the dual eye of separation, I saw something that made me cringe! Why? Because I could only see what he was saying as me having to DO SOMETHING in my own strength to try to change my life!

Looking in the mirror, and walking away forgetting who I am! Forgetting there is ONLY ONE always opens us up to SEEING more than one! (James 1:26) What causes fights and quarrels among you? (James 4:1) It takes at least two to have a quarrel, and if there is more than two involved in the quarrel, doesn’t it get much worse? Being a DOUBLE-MINDED (seeing more than God) man, UNSTABLE IN ALL HIS WAYS! (James 1:8) Can fresh water and polluted water flow from the same spring? (James 3:11)

God has just recently shown me; that at the heart of this awesome book of James is the ongoing and original Eternal thought of the Father, which always exposes duality and separation in every form and on every human level! And what was the reason for James writing this amazing book?

"That they may be ONE, even as you and I are one!” (John 17:21)

And when we are still walking in a consciousness of the God up there, or the God who will show up in the next event, or God AND [fill in the blank], we subject ourselves once again to what Paul described as “The Law of Sin (not sins) and Death!” Or in maturity, we could now define it as the law of duality! Seeing SIN and DEATH is seeing more than just ONE! SIN, being another word for separation, and DEATH, another word for division!

There is another Law, which Paul called; “The Law of The Spirit of Life…IN CHRIST JESUS!” The Spirit of Life, nothing else, not Life AND [fill in the blank] No, this wonderful law contains ONLY ONE……ONLY LIFE! ONLY THE LIFE OF CHRIST! And now look where this SINGLE law operates…….ONLY “IN CHRISTJESUS!” This new Law of seeing only ONE, The Spirit of Life, has swallowed up the former law of seeing more than God, or The Law of Sin and Death! So Now we are able to see just as CHRIST sees! And He ONLY sees the Father in every person, place, thing, or situation! He only sees The Spirit as the ONLY ONE at work in those people, places, things, and situations! The Spirit Works in that wonderful and freeing place of our seeing God ONLY! We Rest, knowing we are simply the created conduit of His Life In Us and As US!

If this is true, wouldn't it stand to reason that when the NEXT trial shows up unexpectedly, we NOW need to call it as He sees it! And How does He see it? He sees it as just another expression of HIMSELF, there for the express purpose of our reconciling it to Him as Him, and with no distinction whatsoever!

No distinction between light and dark, plenty and lack, fear and faith…………because NOW YOU SEE ONLY HIM! Now your WHOLE BODY IS FULL OF LIGHT! How much of your body, read Luke 11:34, YOUR WHOLE BODY!

“HERE THERE IS NO GREEK OR JEW, CIRCUMCISED OR UNCIRCUMCISED, BARBARIAN, SCYTHE, SLAVE, OR FREE……. but CHRIST IS ALL, AND IS IN ALL!” (Col 3:11)

Now I wish I could say I just woke up one day and decided to see things this way, but that is far from being true. Everyone is ok where they are at, and the sooner we learn it is the Spirit’s job to reveal the Father in every situation, the better we will be! If we are full of strife, worry, and fear, then we are also a perfect candidate to learn to RELEASE what we are holding on to, REST in His Unconditional Love, and expect to RECEIVE the NEXT THING!

In this SINGLE EYE of SEEING ONLY GOD IN EVERYTHING, Jesus walked the face of the earth. Even Pilate, the ONE WHO COULD HAVE PRESUMABLY TAKEN HIS LIFE, couldn’t claim any power in HIS presence;

“Do you refuse to speak to me?" Pilate said. "Don't you realize I HAVE POWER either to free you or to crucify you?" Jesus answered, "YOU WOULD HAVE NO POWER OVER ME IF IT WERE NOT GIVEN TO YOU FROM ABOVE.” What was Jesus looking at? Who did He see? Was it Pilate AND… the Father? Was He seeing separation and duality? Or was He seeing ONLY His sovereign Father through all of what he went through......and in this particular situation, standing there in front of Him in the form or expression of Pontious Pilate? And it was right there Jesus saw Pilate fulfilling the original thought of His Father!

"That they may be ONE, even as you and I are one!” (John 17:21)

Without going to the cross, He knew better than anyone, we would ALL be lost! Without the cross, there would be no LIFE! It was for the JOY that was set before him, He endured the cross!

What was that JOY?

“That they may be ONE, even as you and I are one!” (John 17:21)

WHAT ELSE IS THERE?

Is there anything existing that is apart from HIM? Is Christ Divided? Are we? Are our trials? How about our seeming lack? Is anything NOT HIM?

“What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will He not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written; "for your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."


These are questions that need to be answered!

Question: If God is for us, then WHO can be against us?

Answer: Now that we see ourselves operating in this new Law of the Spirit of Life In Christ, God is ALL we see! And so it’s in this place of SEEING GOD ONLY…..ONLY GOD HIMSELF can be against us! No devils or demons! They can ONLY exist in a consciousness of sin! We have moved away from elementary things to the reality of our being ONE IN HIM! Thank God He is not now, nor will He ever be against us!

WHAT ELSE IS THERE?

Question: Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen?

Answer: In this place of seeing Him as ALL, and IN ALL, the enemy has been stripped and laid bare, powerless to even touch God’s elect! There is NO CHARGE OF ANY KIND because He is the All in ALL who fills everything in every way!

Straightening up, Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?" She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, I do not condemn you, either. Go From now on sin no more." (John 8:10-11)

WHAT ELSE IS THERE?

Question: Who shall separate us from the Love of Christ?

Answer: “No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither DEATH nor LIFE, neither ANGELS or DEMONS, neither the PRESENT nor the FUTURE, nor ANY POWERS, neither HEIGHT NOR DEPTH, NOR ANYTHING ELSE IN ALL CREATION, WILL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD”

Let me ask just one final time.

WHAT ELSE IS THERE?
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Comment by Chris Welch
Chris Welch I laugh at separation, at brothers/sisters who close themselves off in a box like we're in some way not worthy of the other.The leaders meetings....the special groupings
according to personality and interests....when in reality where are you going to hide in God's Light,in whom is no shadow? Now every good meeting where the Holy Spirit connects people of all ages, types and standing are that foretaste - that downpayment - that proof that John 17 is on its way bigtime."The burning that we felt in our hearts on Emmaus Road.". The "there I am in the midst" when 2 or 3 are gathered.
Clearly more than God just being everywhere, which He also is.
Reading Fred Pruitt and Ole and Nancy caused a bit of crisis on this until in 2008 I learned that as well as the gold inside and out of the Holy of Holies' furniture - which speaks of both our own Christ as Us walk,plus the ways the Holy Spirit most normally reaches out to others through us.....there's this other thing that's growing ever more powerful when we gather together....the Shekinah Glory. God Himself turning up in a greater more tangible way than His general Imminence.
Now in the 70s Maurice Smith and so many were ministering on John 17. The unity in meetings felt so strong we risked our lives on it,some of us giving up university to move in together and live in community. In England we had Fulness magazine because we were convinced we were spawning literally a new Reformation. Well, we were right and wrong.This WAS the genuine.But it was a downpayment.A firstfruits. A Pentecost Early Harvest.
The late harvest only comes when people learn to live Christ as Us fulltime.When we learn the substance of this article....there IS no double seeing...there is Nothing else.So as a tuner who has to regularly navigate round 7 octaves of 220 wayward strings....I just laugh when people try to cut me off and lock me out. There is only one Jesus...so where are you going to hide yourself?More seriously though we are entering a time of the actual fulfilment of the Festival of booths/tabernacles.This is a corporate version of learning Christ as Me and IT IMMEDIATELY precedes the Jewish Feast of Ingathering.This leaped out at me again above. Its what we expected in the 70s but could only make happen in meetings and the world smelled a rat.Now hopefully....its a Final Harvest version John17" May they be brought to COMPLETE UNITY to let the world know that you sent me... ." This is a world sized statement being based on the passive verb form "be brought". By whom? The Holy Spirit. Who prayed? Jesus. So we're talking dead cert. It is irrelevant that we "see the opposite"...we continue to proclaim the done deal....that there is none else...there is nowhere to go.Speaking as a tuner whose stated mission is heaven-bent on harmony!!!!
more from Rich
· Rich Novek I love you guys, you are the catalyst for my 4 and 5 am nights/mornings! Bless all of you for your awesome insight, wonderful comments! We are all, as our wonderful brother Dan Powers says, "recklessly abandoned to Christ!"

Chris, the one thing I did not expound on that God left for you my brother! Can we even conceive what has to happen in ... See moreorder for this statement to come to fruition..... "May they be brought to COMPLETE UNITY to let the world know that you sent me." What World? The divided and separated world! What has to happen? What needs to be turned on it's ear for us to see this as Christ sees it?.......EVERY-THING! That is exactly what has happened with me in the last 14 weeks I have been on FB! From appearances, my whole life is a mess! It's GOD"S ORDAINED PERFECT CHAOTIC MESS!..........And if I make no distinction between what it is now, and what it was, or will be, I by faith remove the dividing wall of hostility/separation, and the internal conflict dissolves into the peace that surpasses all human understanding! Read on..........."[That it might develop] until we all attain oneness in the faith and in the comprehension of the [FULL AND ACCURATE] knowledge of the Son of God, that [WE MIGHT ARRIVE] at really mature manhood (the completeness of personality which is nothing less than the standard height of Christ's own perfection), the measure of the stature of the fullness of the Christ and the completeness found in Him." (Eph 4:13 AMP)

To Know the Father - Daniel Yordy

To Know the Father

"Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: 'Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give [the life of the age to come] to as many as You have given Him. And this is [the life of the age to come], that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.'" John 17: 1-3

Many times I have discussed the knowledge of God as it is found in the life of this present age. Most Christians know instinctively that to know God is much more than knowing about God. Most Christians understand that this is an intimate and personal knowledge of the One who lives on the inside, in our hearts, and that knowledge "about" God is not sufficient.

Yet we know that for many years we continued to see God separate from ourselves; we continued to believe that we had a life separate from God and that "knowing Him" meant hearing His voice and doing what He says.

And so a chart showing the viewpoint of the life of this present age, Christianized, versus the life of the age to come - revealed in us now, could look something like this.


The Life of the Present Age

Knowing God
God is distinct and separate from His creation. He can be known only as one knows someone completely separate from one's self. In that knowledge of God, God speaks to us, either by His Spirit, or in His word, or by the law, and we, even with His help, do the best we can do to please Him and thus to be known by Him.



The Life of the Age to Come
To know God is to know one's true self, for the knowledge of God is the only life we have. In our certainty that God alone fills our hearts, we know that we are the Word that He speaks. All that we do comes out of who He is and we not only please Him, but we know Him even as He knows us. Our union with Him is intimate, personal, and without limit. God reveals Himself through us.

But Jesus says in His prayer to His Father in John 17 that eternal life, that is, the life of the age to come, is to know the Father and to know His Son. John adds in his first epistle that we already have the life of the age to come for that life is in the Son and the Son is in us.

Now, may I suggest this possibility, that our present knowledge of God is much more the knowledge that is common to the life of this present age than the knowledge that is central to the life of the age to come. Even though most Christians know instinctively that this knowledge of God is not a knowledge "about" God, but an intimate and personal knowledge of Him, yet 99.99 percent of our "knowledge" of God is completely in the "about" category.

In other words, our present knowledge of God that is truly out of the life of the age to come, is but a taste, just enough to excite us and to persuade us to pursue the knowledge of God that is without limit.

That is what we must place in front of ourselves. This knowledge of God that Jesus refers to here in John 17:3 is a knowledge and a personal intimacy that absolutely has no limit.

I know this, the only entrance into this knowledge, to pass from a "taste" to the entire inheritance that is ours, begins with believing Jesus' words in John 14, "In that day you shall know that I am in the Father and you are in Me and I am in you." The entrance into this knowledge is the acceptance of the cross of Jesus Christ as being sufficient and complete, not just for God, but also for us, on the one hand, and the acknowledgment and proclamation that Christ is our life, the only life we know, on the other hand.

As I have shared in past letters, this knowing that I am in Jesus and that Jesus is in me means that I know He carries every part of me inside of Himself and that He reveals Himself in every part of the human me. My flesh is His flesh, as Paul says in Ephesians 5. And not only do I know this in all certainty, but I proclaim it with my voice box with all boldness.

Yet, I have read a number of people over the last while who are rejoicing in the wonderful truth that we walk and live utterly in the grace of God, and that Christ is our life, we have no other life, who having passed through the door into the knowledge of Christ, then begin to express the idea that what we presently know, our little old life in this world, is all, really, that God has for us now. And once again, you see the reversion back to the pagan idea that we will know things as they really are only in "heaven."

And so some have removed the idea that we are in any kind of a fight. Some have removed the idea that we are involved with God in the proving of anything - since everything is by "grace," then everything ends up being automatic for everyone. And for many, just walking through this life as themselves, believing that they, in themselves, are all the revelation of Christ that God has for them now in this present age. I have read them say that if there is anything more, it is reserved entirely for the next age, after life in this age is over.
To know that the cross is sufficient for me and that my life, as I am right now in this present age, is the expression of Christ in me, is the doorway into knowing the life of the age to come, into knowing the Father as He really is.

However, holding to such a limited view of God in us, to such a confined view of the life of Christ revealed through us right now upon this earth, is something that has no appeal to me whatsoever for two reasons. The first is that it denies so much of the life and power, the arena of warfare and the reality of triumph, revealed to us in the New Testament, and the second reason is that I cannot accept or be satisfied with the idea that my present knowledge of God and myself is all there is.


Balderdash!

The knowledge of God that is ours inside the life of the age to come that is ours because Christ is our life, we have no other life, that knowledge of God is without limit.

And right now, I know Him only a tiny little bit, only a taste.


To know Him begins with knowing Him as myself, that I am in my weakness an expression of Him. But that is only how it begins.

We cannot know God as He is if we see Him as One separate from ourselves. Yet all that God is in all of His power, wisdom, and divine nature, becomes all that we are in a glorious unfolding inside the reality of that which our eyes see and our hands touch.

We cannot be the image of God without being an expression of Him without limit.

Let's turn Jesus' statement here in John 17 into a confession of faith.

"I know God."

"I know God without limit and without restraint."

"I know God in all that He is in all of His eternal and infinite being."

Now, obviously, I am speaking prophetically of that which I am before Him right now. I am calling those things that "be not" as though they are.

My calling is to bring that knowledge of God that God says I possess right now, into the full experience of life on this planet.

Yet all I really know of that knowledge is a tiny, tiny taste.
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Now, may I suggest this possibility, that our present knowledge of God is much more the knowledge that is common to the life of this present age than the knowledge that is central to the life of the age to come. Even though most Christians know instinctively that this knowledge of God is not a knowledge "about" God, but an intimate and personal knowledge of Him, yet 99.99 percent of our "knowledge" of God is completely in the "about" category.


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I must acknowledge to you that I do not know what I am talking about. Having stepped through the door into the life of the age to come, I am looking at a vast panorama of reality through blinded eyes, through a glass darkly. I have never been upon the path that is before me. I can hardly describe it to you. I do not know where I am going and I certainly cannot indicate to you what is the next step forward for me, for you, or for anyone.

But I can assure you that my Savior, Jesus, the One who fills my heart, does know the path, in fact, He is the path. It is He who holds my hand, who fills my feet and guides them and yours as well.

However, even though I am ignorant of the way forward, I must probe, I must reach, I must seek to know this glorious Being who claims He is my life. I can do nothing else.

We do have three things that help us in our venturing out into the unlimited treasure of the life and power of this God who is our life, to know God in the same way that He knows us.

The brother who first birthed into my heart the vision of the revelation of Christ shared a principle. In looking at where God has us now, I am firmly convinced that this principle holds. He stated that God has given us the patterns in His word, both in the history of Israel and in the life of Christ, as well as the patterns of the natural realms, for us to use in the same way that a dressmaker uses the patterns to make a dress. Anytime you hear a "truth," you lay it up against the patterns. What fits the patterns you keep, what does not fit you cut away.

The idea that, now that we know that Christ is our life and that we stand in all the grace of God, we no longer are engaged in any form of battle, there is no more "fight," or victory or winning or overcoming yet to be brought into our experience in this age and in this life, that idea, laid up against the patterns, does not fit. Therefore we cut it away.

My God, the children of Israel, though they fought in the wilderness, did not really know war until they had fully entered into the promised land and had begun to eat solely from its life. After that, the battle began.

A butterfly, encased in a cocoon, is fully a butterfly. It is and has within itself all that it will ever be. What that butterfly does not know is either the full extent of the life that is in it or the reality of the heavens in which it was created to live. It cannot obtain the knowledge of either one unless it struggles with everything that is in it against the cocoon that binds it up. Only by casting off that cocoon does the butterfly enter into life as it was meant to be.

The second thing that God gives us in this journey upon which we have never been, is other brethren who, like us, are standing just inside the life of the age to come and who see that there is so very much more and that God has ordained this incredible passage, this transition, this birth canal experience, this casting off of the curse and all that it means, who see, with us, that this is God's determination, and are reaching forward to the same thing we reach forward too. These brethren are a confirmation to us and we are a confirmation to them that God is doing this thing.

I am greatly encouraged by all those who write to me saying how the things I share are such a blessing to them. However, if that encouragement was all that I had, I would have long since quit in despair.

Far more important is the confirmation of those who are hearing the same word and reaching for the same goal. Let me share one such confirmation that was sent to me, short, maybe, but essential to my strength. This is in response to my last letter, "The Great Story of God - Revelation 11," that ventured into a reality that may well scare off many dear ones who love Jesus and want to be with Him.


Hi Daniel.

Good reading this morning. I have often said, and it is my bold proclamation, that Jesus is our example...but, just how far does that go? God spoke to me 3 times some time ago and said: "Jesus is the example," each time speaking it more forcefully into my heart. You have tapped into this same thing and I am thrilled.

Love, Bonnie


There are others, besides Bonnie, who are reaching for the same knowledge of God revealed through us into this age and upon this earth that I am reaching for out of the same word from God birthed in them that is birthed in me. There is in me, when I read or hear them speak, such a leaping of joy and expectation that God really is doing this thing, in my heart, in the same way that the babe in Elizabeth's womb leaped for joy at the approach of the Babe in Mary's womb.

You and I need this level of prophetic confirmation as much as Mary needed it.


The third thing that we have to guide us is almost a negative thing. It is when we read or hear good Christian teaching, precious brethren sharing from their present revelation and we know that we know that we know, deep inside, that they have found a way to limit God. We know that, though there is good truth in what they share, what you and I must have has to be so much more.

I must know God without limit, now upon this earth. I must know Him or perish.

I have those who write to me assuring me that, although I am sharing some good things, they have the truth, the revelation, that I am missing, and if I would just read their stuff and subscribe to their theology, I will have what I am reaching for. Then I could sit back (or so I suppose) and be happy and not need anything more from God, not need that which God has never yet released upon this earth.

If they would tell me they don't know what they're talking about, that they have never been upon the road ahead, I would believe them. But when I do read their stuff, it may or may not be good, it may or may not be something I agree with or even witness to.

But seldom is there a leaping in my spirit, a witness of confirmation, that this also is the revelation of Jesus Christ out of the age to come and into this present age. Too often, all they have done is find another way to limit God, to keep all the fullness of His glory and power out of the blood and the dirt and the physical reality of life on this present earth.

But there are enough who are hearing the same word I am hearing, who are reaching for the same fullness of all that God is, revealed through us, that I am reaching for, who understand that these last moments of the birth canal in which we find ourselves are the time of greatest pain, of greatest jeopardy, and of greatest battle. There are enough of these that God has brought me in contact with for me to know that the thing that fills my heart to overflowing is of God and to give me the boldness and the confidence I need to place myself utterly in the middle of His revelation.

God is tearing Himself open, right now, as He has never done before. He is taking His very heart, the reality of all that He is in power and in love, and He is placing that revelation of Himself inside of and out from you and me, right here inside the realms of time and the limitations of the physical earth.

To know the Father is the apocalypse. It is the unveiling of Jesus Christ.

And there is no clearer pattern to show us where and how we find that knowledge of God than the butterfly, enclosed and held tightly within the chrysalis, limited in every way by that which does not know God.

For many years we lived as a caterpillar inside God's plan for us. Our job at that time was to eat His word, to take into ourselves everything God is speaking both through the preaching of the word, through walking together with other brethren, and through our own study of the Bible. And we did that, we ate and ate and ate and grew and grew and grew.

Then came the time when God drew us aside into a quiet place, a place set aside, a lonely place. There He bound us up tight. We could no longer minister, we were in one way or another cut off from our brethren. The power we had once tasted seemed to lift away from us.

And in that tight and lonely place, God took us all apart. Oh the tearing, the pain, the tears, as He took apart everything that we were, everything that we thought was Him, threw it all up into the air into a confused mess until we did not know what was truth and what was nonsense, what was ourselves and what was gobbledygook.

Then, wonder of wonders, God spoke a word into that confused mess He had made us to be inside that confined and restricted place. He said, "Christ is your life; you have no other life." Then we watched in wonder and amazement as God brought everything we are back together again, only this time, all of it was Christ and all of His ways concerning us were perfect. And now we acknowledge nothing except Christ, and we see nothing inside of us or when we gaze into the mirror except Him. We know that we are in Him and that He is in us and there is absolutely nothing else.

Yet we are still facing the grave. The condemnation of death is still circling us and all whom we love with all of its torture and cruelty. We are confined and limited by the curse that remains upon this earth and upon our bodies. We are restrained by the life of this present age. Demons and evil men continue to wreck havoc upon this earth, destroying our inheritance and claiming it as their own.


We know that we are, right now, all that we will ever be in His glory, but we also know that right now, we do NOT know God, not as we must. We know that we have only tasted that knowledge and that we are yet blind and ignorant and so very, very limited. The life that is inside of us has not yet worked its way out into every part of our being.


Do not tell me that you have more knowledge of the truth than I do. Until you are immortal, incorruptible, moving in all the power and unlimited revelation of Almighty God, raising people from the dead, driving demons off of this planet, bringing many into all the fullness of Christ, until then, you are in the same place I am, limited, blind, and ignorant of the life and power of the mighty One who fills your heart.

But in the simple picture of a butterfly, God gives us the path forward, the way He has ordained by which we will KNOW GOD, the life of the age to come.

That butterfly is constrained by a shell that is not itself. Yet that shell keeps it from moving in the full confidence of all that it is. And God has ordained that the butterfly MUST fight against that shell and cast it off. We know what happens when that beautifully formed butterfly presses against the limitation of that outer shell. We know that the life deep inside it moves out into every part of that butterfly. Each time it presses, stronger and stronger, more life flows, and the more that life flows, the stronger the butterfly presses. Until the shell rips open, and the butterfly forces its way out. Then it sits there, momentarily, upon that cast off shell, gathering the awareness that it is forever free, before it flies into all the reality of God.



God will never remove our shell for us.

God will never remove our shell for us.

Those who die and go to heaven discover that the shell remains. God has put Himself inside of us inside that shell because that is the only way that we can ever know Him.


We know Him by casting off the restraint and limitation of the curse that remains still upon our bodies, upon this earth, and upon the life of this present age. We know Him only through the battle, through the travail, through proclaiming the victory in the midst of despair, seeing that which is not seen, declaring that what He is in us as the only reality there is.



But those who say there is no battle - just relax and enjoy grace. God has already done everything. There is no more for you to know and experience, no veil to cast off, no darkness to overthrow, no enemy to cast down, no victory to win, no beast to overcome, no death to cast aside. Those who seem to be indicating that incredible nonsense in this hour - well, I will say no more.

To remove the shell from the butterfly so that it no longer must cast if off in order to live is to condemn that butterfly to a slow and horrifying death.

This truth has nothing to do with "achieving" something, or "winning God's favor" or any such nonsense. All of that is forever gone from us, removed by the cross of Christ.

This truth is to know the unlimited life and power of the God who fills us with all of His fullness, right here upon this earth, in this present age, out from these bodies of mortal flesh until they are swallowed up in the life of the One whose revelation we are.

All that I do now is God in me doing it.


To know the Father is the life of the age to come, revealed through us, bringing to an end this present age.

Be blessed in the Lord,

Daniel Yordy
for more of Daniel's great material or to subscribe to his regular newsletter - www.dyordy.com

Holiness now - and Susie Golman Cox on The level that is Christ

From Facebook today
Note to Rich Novek Have you connected seeing God only and holiness?
The scriptures talk of the day when even the pots and pans will be holy unto the Lord.The old idea of certain activities being holy is crazy.I've known for some time in Timothy about being sanctified/set apart as vessels for the master's use and seen that holiness was just like a washbowl or bucket set aside for a more glorious special use. But if you put that concept with Christ living His life as me and with seeing God only and seeing and doing no more than God....to use your phrase...you begin to see how dynamic and powerful holiness is.Jesus learned the set apart pace of life in normal non ministry life...we think...as a carpenter.For 30 hidden years.But everything He learned then prepared Him for things later on....like when not to and when to go up to the Feast of booths in John 7.Like when not to go to Martha and Mary when Lazarus died then 3 days later when to go!!! Every single facet of streamlining our life down to doing only what He is doing,the so called narrow way,builds in us an incredible authority....presumably because we are under authority....but it's the Melchizedek order....not a human organisational structure.Holiness is just not like we ever imagined it would be.

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My Status post
Linear thinking is a useful tool, but if you live from it, there's a word for that...autism.
Linear thinking in British Christianity works like this.Prophecy isn't true, so any fulfilled prophecy" must literally be written after the event, so the gospels must've been written 100 years afterwards.(Totally circular argume...nt)Linear thinking in redneck Christianity works like this. Israel good,Palestinians bad. Let's nuke 'em. This is no different from the disciples "Do you want us to call down fire from heaven down on that village Lord?". "You don't know of what spirit you are" Jesus replied.Love does not operate from the left-brain. It empathises with complexities even if it can't always articulate why.
Susie Golmon Cox ~"It empathises with complexities even if it can't always articulate why." Yes, thats it. It certainly does!

6 hours ago ·
Kyle Yordy FINALLY!!!
A feasible explanation as to why the world has gone mad.
Thank you Mr. Welch, this has actually started my day of very well. =)
5 hours ago ·

Chris Welch Call me Chris! Yes, the line of command runs like a wire chainlinking everyone's left brain through terror.If through Christ or creative/artistic bolshiness you can stand back long enough,you get to hear what God is really saying.World Government can only be built because forehead (probably leftside and hand) have already been dedicated to their ... See moreuse...mark of the beast runs right through linear thought to the willing hand that has dedicated itself already to do what the leftbrain tells it.We however are told to trust in the Lord with all our heart...not rely on our insight as the world do...to acknowledge Him in absolutely everything and surprise surprise He makes straight our paths. Its weird how humanism gets us to walk its leftbrain designed straight paths but ends up in a morass of stupid knots deadends and unforeseen consequences.

4 hours ago · Susie Golmon Cox Very good Mr.Welch, I mean. Chris! Lol! It always comes back to the fact that its Christ's real life living on the inside of us expressing Himself to accomplish His administration of the Kingdom of Heaven upon the earth. Once we get our little left side of our brain going to try and do this...its all left turns and NO HEART! Christ both HAS the heart for us and His administration of His Love and He IS the Heart of His administration of Love. We just can't think apart from His mind with which He thinks with, which is an expression of what His heart 'Is' and expect to make it. Its an utterly ridiculous notion.
3 hours ago ·
Chris Welch Wisdom and knowledge, never just the amassing of knowledge.Think about how little knowledge knows about wisdom.Think about that.Apart from philosophy which university does a course on wisdom? Yet by wisdom do rulers reign.You'd think itd be quite important then?

3 hours ago · Chris Welch How come I've got to do a blog on the third level? There's a wisdom gap in all the seminaries.They have tons of Bible knowledge but at no point were pastors sat down and told "ofcourse you realise 1John 2:12ff tells us there is another level...." Its a fundamental wisdom gap in the church....and its what happens when you run church on knowledge and not Christ who is made unto us wisdom.
3 hours ago ·

Susie Golman Cox
"The level that you speak of is Christ Himself.When He is everywhere,what makes a person 'capable' of talking 'about' Him while He is sitting in the room right next to us, or better yet,is inside of us,as our Life, unnoticed? For, its not really possible to separate the knowledge of Him from Him. Its an utterly ridiculous lie believed, that gets us to separate our knowledge 'of' God 'from' Him. In reality,when one is spiritually discerning, its not possible to separate the knowledge of Him from Him.Once the knowledge of Him comes..we have to 'do' something with it. We have come in contact with The Person of Whom the knowledge is about and a decision must be made.So this separation only happens in our minds! Christ IS Present in all of His Glory,Power and wisdom.The angels,who are in the presence of The Lord 24/7 probably wonder how and why we 'do' this. It can only happen in the 'mind' of a person in which the Light of Truth is not prevailing in that instant.Or in some cases for a lonnnnng instant!(Thats not funny,that is very sad when this happens) Not saying they are not born again.But we are all in the process of 'having the light of Truth turned up' in our MINDS. We must realize though,that it is the wisdom of God to have brought us into union with Christ Himself because He IS the only Life there is..."I Am the Life". It is the wisdom of God to have had us to 'receive' Christ. So now we have His mind and access of His wisdom 24/7...as our continual supply.Wow! Our portion of God's wisdom is infinite and limitless! He,Who IS wisdom knew that we would need a constant Helper to help us stay in touch with the constant flow of the wisdom of God, Who is Christ within Whom He has given us to be our Source for ALL things. So He put within us that One,The Holy Spirit Who would ceaselessly and tirelessly and continually work in and with our minds illuminating Christ to us when we have believed a lie or forgotten,become distracted,discouraged,and any other myriad of reasons that would temporarily block the Light of Christ and His wisdom within us."

Two deliverances Available at the Cross by Sylvia Pearce

Two Deliverances Available at the Cross - Chapter 4 of Treasures of Darkness by Sylvia Pearce. Downloads from Christ our Life Ministries
“For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death
of His Son much more, being reconciled,
we shall be saved by His life”
(Romans 5:10)
There is a section in the book of John that really catches my attention. It is where Jesus says, “I am the bread of life: he that comes to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.” Also there is the passage from the Ephesians epistle: “To know the love of Christ which passeth knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fullness of God” (3:19). These two passages challenge us as Christians to know total deliverance and total fulfillment in our lives today. Yet, if we are really honest, most of the Christian world would have to say that this is only an aspiration which can never be attained right here and right now. For we mistakenly think that total deliverance and total fulfillment are only really attainable in our future heavenly home.
Why did Jesus promise fulfillment if it is only a carrot on a stick designed to tease us? The one thing we all know about God's nature is that “He cannot lie” (Titus 1:2). So, if Jesus promised it, then total satisfaction is available to us today. That is why Paul prays for us in the Ephesians epistle: “That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of his call, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.” Paul is saying that we have an inheritance in Christ that we haven't even seen let alone entered into.
What we don't realize is that there are two deliverances available to us by the Cross of Christ. We Christians understand the first deliverance from our past sins, through faith in the blood of Christ. We realize the forgiveness of our past sins, we know our future is secure, and we confidently look to heaven as our eternal home. This gives us peace from
the past and assurance for the future, but what about our present tense experience? Can't we all agree that most of us live a roller coaster life of trying and failing, falling far short of what Jesus promised in John 6:35 (never thirsting, never hungering)?
What does total deliverance mean? I believe the Gospel is much deeper and broader than most Christians realize. We have heard only half of the Gospel, the provision of the precious blood. Never do we hear that there is deliverance in the precious body of Christ. I often hear Christians singing “there is power, power, wonder working power, in the blood of the Lamb,” but I have never heard anyone say or sing, “there is wonder working power in the body of the Lamb.” But there is!
Jesus brings out both aspects of the gospel when he makes this provocative statement in John 6:53-57; “Verily, verily, I say unto you, except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whosoever eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him. As the living Father has sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eats me, even he shall live (daily) by me.”
We know that eating and drinking are metaphors for faith. Faith is receiving what is available to us, and what we take, like food, takes and becomes us. God is satisfied when we take by faith (drink) the blood of His Son, because “without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.” Without our receiving that provision we are still in our sins.
But why are we Christians so dissatisfied in our daily lives? I believe it is because we have never entered into the second deliverance provided for us by the body death and resurrection of Christ; “Except you eat my flesh, you will have no life in you.” Eating His flesh means that we take the provision of His bodily death and resurrection as our present tense deliverance. The blood of Christ satisfies God, and the body of Christ satisfies us. When God and man are both satisfied, then we will never hunger or thirst again.
What are the available provisions in the “Blood and Body”of Christ? These two aspects of the gospel are symbolized in the Lord’s supper: the wine and the bread. The Blood of Christ, symbolized by the wine, is offered to guilty and hopeless sinners as a provision for our sins. Jesus Christ took our sins on himself and bore the full death penalty. This sacrificial offering totally satisfied God’s justice, thereby setting us free from sin. Then, by the miracle of the resurrection, Jesus was raised from the dead for our
justification, thereby, giving us eternal life. The blood gives us peace with God, the forgiveness from our past sins, and security for our future destiny.
Secondly, the Body of Christ, symbolized by the bread, is offered to helpless saints as our present tense deliverance. The deeper element of the gospel is that Jesus became the very nature of sin, which is Satan expressing himself as us (II Cor. 5:21). Jesus became sin and then died to it, and in his resurrection we are made one with his righteousness. There is a nature exchange, thereby exchanging our consciousness from a separated striving-self-sufficient consciousness, which is the nature and mind of Satan, to Christ’s own life as us. Christ didn’t come to improve us, He came to replace us.
The Cross (body death) exchanges sin’s nature of self-centeredness with Christ’s nature of "other love;" it exchanges sin’s consciousness of separation with Christ's own mind of oneness; and finally, it exchanges sin's operation of striving self-effort with Christ's own operation of faith, causing us to know oneness with Christ..
Let us look deeper into the full meaning of the Body of Christ. We can begin by answering the question, “What is the Body of Christ?” The Body of Christ is his humanity or his human-ness. My good friend Linda Bunting says, “The Jews deny Jesus’ divinity, while we Christians deny His humanity.” We know that the Bible says that He was God in the flesh, but to most people that means an all-knowing consciousness without weakness and human limitations. Somehow, we think that weakness and humanity are sinful and wrong in themselves, therefore denying Jesus' humanity the same way we deny our own. We must look deeper into the life of Christ to know that when God became flesh, he became as weak and as capable of human frailties, emotions, and desires as we are: He truly became like us.

The 2nd Seal and Conscience - Peter Stott 6th June 2010

Continuation from Mark Stibbe's Prophetic Talk given at last year's RiverCamp2009 on the second seal.
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2Timothy2:19

Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm,

sealed with this inscription:

"The Lord knows those who are His," and,

"Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."

My notes in blue: The main gist so far in the worldwide Spirit-filled community is that we have been getting to know the Lord in a new,living, real way and now we move onto the 2nd seal which is a call to holiness. Both Peter and Mark Stibbe approach this subject with much fear and trembling, because of their own "legal" pasts. Holiness, true holiness , they are aware, is not the stultifying obedience to a set of rules and commandments, going back again to lawbook-living.



Before we go to Peter's message on conscience, can I point out that from a 3rdlevel point of view, the order of these two seals above are very key.



It's not us knowing the Lord. It is Him KNOWING(sexual union word) us. So you can forget the second seal until you have first laid a foundation as follows:



that the former 0wner /occupier , Satan, since Genesis 3:5 , has now been driven out. The Lord knowing us is a very deep phrase which describes the experiential process, the conscious process of LEARNING HIM as Our New INDWELLER. That we only ever were, and continue to be, spirit containers; before we were born again, containers for the Satan spirit,since we were born again, containers of Jesus.



As Christians, because of ignorance and our own limited understanding of scriptures,and also because just about all the main Christian teachers in the worldwide Body of Christ still teach "separation": Christ and a separate me, who is trying ,through godly pursuits, to better him/herself, we are unable it seems to read Romans, Colossians,Ephesians etc the way they were originally understood.



How do I know that? Well, as in tuning pianos, thankfully there is an inbuilt natural check and balance system. How do I know when first a note made up of three identical strings, then second the entire first octave of a piano are exactly in tune? Well, simple really (and this is a bit of an oversimplification you techie purists), there are NO BEATS. When there is dischord, the differences show up as unpleasant extra vibrations called beats. (Techie moment:If A440 beats per second is played against A441...you only hear the straggly one beat per second difference wowing between the 2 strings)



In the Body...you know when the teaching is right

People live free....yup...amazingly enough...that's OUTSIDE of meetings

secondly "these signs follow after those that believe."



So you can tell a 2nd level community of believers who are still "stuck " in the independent delusion:

1. All sorts of sin is still going on behind the scenes which creates peculiar B.O. when the saints gather together in meetings


2. There are only spasmodic signs following in a random hit or miss kind of way....usually after only gazillions of prayer or bursts of spiritual concentration...as Rob Rufus describes the early 80s for him.

Where "separation" is still implied in the teaching, you are not dismantling the false consciousness that was sown back in Genesis by the devil, whose genius was to come up with something sooooooo like the real thing, that even squinting very closely at our history, at all mankind's mistakes, we still were only ever putting on the devil's own specs....."If the (very)light that is within you is darkness....HOW GREAT is that darkness."

and it has taken all these millennia to trap what is going on, and continue what Jesus came for, to lay the axe to the root.
___________________________

Peter Stott : "The Second Seal and Conscience" from notes - ACWelch. June 6th Havant Main Sunday meeting.

The call to holiness is a call to come alive again. We are fearfully and wonderfully made. The component parts to our makeup have been seriously clogged up and damaged by sin, and the shame of sin.

Here are a list of some of our abilities and gifts that really only come into their own again when we have received Jesus into our lives, and we are walking closely with Him.

Memory - a powerful tool for recalling the ways God has blessed us and come through for us in the past.

Imagination and creativity - our drive to experiment with the new in every area of our life knows literally no bounds

Will - a curse when wayward, but a powerful driving force in God

Conscience - this is the subject of this talk.
Sin damages.Clogs up.Wrecks our self-image.Causes shame. Both when it's our fault and when it isn't. (The Bulger murder case didn't just affect those concerned, it brought a measure of shame to our nation. "Righteousness exalts a nation.")

Sin is unattractive in people. It dulls. Righteousness has an attractive radiance about it. A liveliness. A clean conscience gives strength, forcefulness, authority.

Innocence Lost - by Steve Taylor from 1987 Album ironically titled "I Predict 1990". The end makes me want to cry.

Ever hear the sound of a death row chorus?
ever see the look of a wolfman prowling the steps?
in this deep freeze bunker they store us
send away the priest, 'cause they're ain't nothing more to confess

She had the innocent eyes of a Renoir lady
clutched her black book like an angel nursing a child
"It's a quarter to midnight here, baby
if you're gonna stare, do it while I'm sleeping"

But her eyes, they shone of an innocent way...
in her eyes, we glimpsed of an innocent way...
and in the days that followed we were under a spell
why's the girl visiting a prison cell?

Innocence, innocence,
innocence lost
all souls want it back
some uncover the cost
innocence, innocence lost
break free, look at me
is your innocence lost?

He'd seen things that a man don't mention
sunk into his eyes was a weariness nothing could heal
"Don't tell me 'bout your cheap salvation
what's a man do when he don't feel nothing?"

But her eyes, they shone of an innocent way...

She said, "Beyond these bars there are things you can't see"
He spoke slowly
"Ain't no pardon for me"

Innocence, innocence,
innocence lost
all souls want it back
some uncover the cost
innocence, innocence lost
she said, "Look at me,
don't you, don't you lose your innocence
don't lose your innocence"
he said, "God's own angels couldn't give me hope
when you leave me hanging, just leave me enough rope"

But her eyes he glimpsed of an innocent way...

And on the eve of destruction they were shining the chair
outside vigils, inside men were sobbing
as she kissed his forehead when the morning had dawned
he said softly to her, "I'll see you beyond"

Peter continues:

The Apostle Paul in Acts 24:16 "I strive to have a pure conscience before God and men"

Conscience is your friend. It is a fabulous tool when healthy, because it discerns good from evil. It tells you ahead of time to get the heck out of there, before you get enmeshed.

So a healthy conscience is Pro-active not Retroactive as it has come to mean in a sinful world.

It says AHEAD of time....Keep away. It is like a sensitised sense of spiritual smell.

Conscience can be corrupted. It says in Titus 1:15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.

The Holy Spirit can tell us to stop doing things for a while in order that we get freed up from any false soul/spirit attachments. If we are not careful, these temporary arrangements enter into the lore of our Christian movement, as a dead work, shaping our consciences falsely . In the 30s Pentecostal women felt it was a leading NOT to be attached to makeup. This then entered the lore of the movement, as if it was a permanent law of righteousness.

1 Timothy 4:2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
If our consciences have been so badly calloused, we are unable to correctly assess things. We begin calling bad things good.

We can have a weakened conscience. A strong conscience is one that is connected to our will. Otherwise we assent intellectually to something, but as soon as we are strongly enticed, all our notions go to the wind.

Shame is the dregs of what remains after sin.

Paul says in Timothy " I thank God I serve Him from a pure conscience

2Tim 1:3 I thank God, whom I serve, as my forefathers did, with a clear conscience, as night and day I constantly remember you in my prayers.


I Timothy 1:5 "The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith." How much expression of love is needlessly forfeited through bad conscience clogging us up?

Third-level teaching is so good at getting to the heart of things enabling a truly clear conscience.

If you understand that all you are is a container, and that sin was ousted completely at the cross, and the New-Indweller who is Christ has now come in, you at last have a foundation that is Word and Spirit to combat

shame, inferiority feelings, self-loathing, general yukky feelings...

We have a foundation now to speak to the devil with.

I decide to believe what the Word says about me, until the feelings and thoughts tag along and fall into line with my new believing.

After a while we get better at recognising what is genuinely our conscience, and what are just bad feelings that are still according to the lies I believed about myself.

Peter continues: our baptism into Christ expressed in water baptism, cleanses our conscience.

This could never happen before in the Old Testament system of sacrifices of bulls and goats. But Jesus did a complete thing for us - see the next post The Two Deliverances at the Cross chapter 4 - Treasures of Darkness by Sylvia Pearce.

Peter Stott: How to Keep a good conscience

By the Blood, The Word, and the Spirit.

-By keeping short accounts and going to sleep with a clear conscience.

-By soaking, or exposing ourselves to good stuff. Just generally taking care of what we are feeding on.

A clear conscience is a joyful thing, and joy brings strength with it.

By lining up our conscience with the Word and the Spirit. "Thy Word is a light unto my feet"

The Result.....

A confidence without boasting. It's not a self-confidence in our own works...but a clear conscience in regard to our dealings with God and man.

And learning to use that inbuilt umpire of peace that we received when we were born again. Let the Peace of God rule or umpire in your heart.

To live among a people that just simply acknowledge their sin before the Living God and His Presence, that take His righteousness offered as a free gift, and then, living unclogged, free to love others, to rightly relate....to lose these heavy clouds of depression and cynicism, to do away the dependance on stimulants, anti depressants, because innocence has returned, a lightness of spirit, joy strength and confidence....instead of having to live in our current rather numb Western culture. End of talk

5 things about the Gaza flotilla

5 things about the Gaza flotilla from Velveteen Rabbi
Please click to the original for extra indepth links for further background material

Among my reasons for not posting again about the Gaza flotilla situation: I'm not sure I have anything new or fresh to add to the conversation; my computer time is quite limited these days and I'm not sure I want to spend it writing about this; often when I post about Israel, I get comments which depress me deeply.

Among my reasons for posting again about it even so: if I want to see more thoughtful blogging from progressive Jews on this subject, I need to speak up too.

Imagine me with two little cartoon figures hovering over my shoulders. One whispers into one ear, "Let it go! Writing about things which make you angry and sad is not good for your equanimity!" The other whispers into my other ear, "Don't take advantage of the luxury of being able to set this aside. Highlight the voices you want to see highlighted."

Guess which little cartoon angel won out.

Here are five things I think need to be said:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. So much depends

...on who's telling the story, and which sources they choose to cite. A few days ago, Gershom Gorenberg posted A Brief History of the Gaza Folly, noting:

Activists who were on board say the Israeli commandos fired before being attacked; the Israeli military says the soldiers were defending themselves from a mob. Both sides present film clips of the nighttime struggle to back up their case.

I appreciate Gorenberg's careful unraveling of the decisions which led to this situation -- and his pointed observation that both sides present film clips to support their claims. In recent days CNN has reported that eyewitness accounts of what happened on the Mavi Marmara differ. Which is to say: the story looks different depending on who's telling it. It seems to me that a lot of people are overlooking that, and we shouldn't.



2. Provocation

In my previous post I asked for links to essays by women, because it bothered me (still does) that the chorus of voices I've been reading on this issue is so overwhelmingly male. One of the essays to which I was pointed was Emily Hauser's OK, now I'm pissed, in which she writes:

Of course the flotilla was a provocation — it was designed, all along, to draw attention to Israel’s collective punishment of the population of Gaza. Of course the activists didn’t acquiesce to Israel’s demands that they turn around, of course they knew something crazy would happen, of course they were taking an enormous risk to make a political point — that is the way that civil disobedience and activism work!

Hauser has a point -- and it seems to me that Israel played right into the trap. A number of commentators I've read have suggested that those who made the decision to attack the Mavi Marmara ought to have remembered the story of the SS Exodus. (If that reference doesn't ring a bell, this NYTimes blog piece provides good context.)

The flotilla's arrival was intended to highlight the plight of the people of Gaza and to draw Israel into precisely this kind of response (see Leon Weseltier's Operation Make The World Hate Us.) In a recent Salon article, reporter Taghreed El-Khodary calls Israel's response to the flotilla a "present" for Hamas. Israel's response to the Mavi Marmara is indicative of the kind of problematic use of force which characterizes the Occupation writ large.



3. Unnecessary

And the hell of it is, things didn't have to play out like this. Here's an excerpt from a document called J Street on Gaza Flotilla and Aftermath:

We harbor no illusions about the motives of those who organized the flotilla. While the cargo they carried was humanitarian in nature, their intent was to force the Israeli government to confront the consequences of the blockade of Gaza - including by using the media coverage to further damage Israel's standing in world opinion.

They have succeeded not only in creating negative publicity but in highlighting for the world that Israel's actions and policies go far beyond the measures necessary to prevent the import of weapons and other material aid to terrorists in the Gaza Strip.

Israel may have had the necessary legal justification to enforce its blockade, but the correct question isn't whether it had the right to use force, but whether that decision was strategically wise and furthered the clear goal of promoting the security of a Jewish, democratic and safe Israel. We believe it did not.

(While I'm at it, I also recommend J Street's set of Key questions and answers on the Gaza Flotilla.) Along similar lines, a recent statement from Rabbi Michael Lerner at Tikkun notes that:

[T]here was no need for any of this to have happened. Israel could have waited for the boats to arrive at shore and then sent military to search what was being brought to Gaza to ensure that it was in fact humanitarian aid. Moreover, as the Israeli peace movement Gush Shalom pointed out on May 31, the core of the issue remains Israel's attempt to starve and punish the entire population of Gaza for the activities of Hamas.

As inevitable as this clash now seems to have been, it didn't have to happen this way.



4. Counterproductive

That word can apply both to the raid on the Mavi Marmara, and the blockade of Gaza writ large.

It seems to me that the blockade is not a wise way to ensure Israel's safety and security. Retired Israeli Brigadier General Meir Elran agrees: "The blockade policy has not proven itself in the last three years, and I don't think it will prove itself in the next three." (That's from the Washington Post's In Gaza, a complex, dysfunctional way of life.)

In his essay Of Boycotts and Blockades: An Analysis of the Gaza Flotilla Attack, published recently in Zeek, Shaul Magid notes:

Israel’s counter-argument that it needs to blockade Gaza to protect its own security is real and should not be minimized by the international community. However, one can also justifiably question its sincerity when it turns down an offer of diplomatic relations with a moderate Arab country over the quantity of cement that country wants to import. One can question Israel’s sincerity when its government decides to stage a risky Rambo-like commando operation against a flotilla that had passed inspection by a country with which it has (or had) good relations.

Even given the security concerns, was there no other alternative to blockade? Was there no alternative to boarding the humanitarian flotilla? Is what’s at stake really only security? Or is this also about collective punishment?

I believe that Israel's policies of collective punishment on the inhabitants of Gaza are neither effective nor ethical. Back when Operation Cast Lead was new, I wrote, "What aims could the 'operations' have had, to have been accomplished in this manner? It looks to me, from here, like what was achieved was a lot of bloodshed and suffering which will give rise to more bloodshed and suffering." I wish I had been wrong about that.



5. The Shadow

In her recent Ha'aretz essay, The Shadow Over Israel, author Margaret Atwood writes about what she calls The Shadow:

The Shadow is not the Palestinians. The Shadow is Israel's treatment of the Palestinians
linked with Israel's own fears. The worse the Palestinians are treated in the name of those fears, the bigger the Shadow grows, and then the fears grow with them; and the justifications for the treatment multiply.

To be clear, there is dehumanization on both sides -- and that dehumanization leads to a vicious cycle of violence and destruction. And now it has led to the needless deaths of several internationals aboard a Turkish ship, which have captured world attention in a way that the ordinary deaths of Israelis and Palestinians tragically often don't.

There's a natural inclination to take sides when something like this unfolds, and the weird echo chamber effect of internet homophily can mean that each of us falls into the trap of preaching to her or his own kind of choir. (And those who do visit blogs authored by people with whom they disagree tend, I've found, to make those visits on a drop-in basis with the intent of arguing, rather than as part of a sustained and collegial conversation about differences of opinion among friends.) But I'd like to invite us to try to feel empathy.

It is possible to empathize with the Israeli soldiers who were placed in the untenable position of carrying out this mission while also being furious at the government which made the decision to put them there. It is possible to empathize with the people of Gaza who are living under blockade while also being furious at those among them who would fire rockets into Israel. It is possible to empathize with the earnest do-gooders on the flotilla while also recognizing that the flotilla was also a PR stunt designed to goad Israel into behaving badly. It is possible to empathize with Israel's beleaguered position while also being exasperated that Israel behaved badly in exactly the way this incident was meant to provoke. And most of all, it is possible to sincerely regret the loss of life regardless of whose "side" one is on.
++++++++++++++++++++
I commented:Irrelevantly but relevantly I point to Chairman Mao who knew just how to draw the Americans into Vietnam and support the Vietcong war from just off-stage in the manner that we dangle a small ball of wool in front of a kitten. Many surmised this at the time, but it was brilliantly described in this decade's book on Mao by Jung Chang and her partner.
The wise stand back from the tirades on both sides and look for the hand offstage in the wings.
Good post. May I borrow it.

God's Grace Activity..Christ At Work In You...Part..10..."The Continuing Function of the Living Lord Jesus".....James A Fowler

God's Grace Activity..Christ At Work In You...Part..10..."The Continuing Function of the Living Lord Jesus".....James A Fowler..
through Merrill Thompson on Facebook
The tragic misrepresentation of contemporary evangelicalism is their preoccupation with religious attempts to deal with sin and express righteousness by human self-effort. Their acceptance of the humanistic premise of an "independent self" that is allegedly capable of self-generating character in Christian behavior is a wholesale repudiation of God's grace.
When grace is mentioned in modern evangelical teaching it is often defined by the acrostic, "God's Redemption At Christ's Expense." Grace was indeed "realized through Jesus Christ" (John 1:17), and His incarnation and redemptive death serve to reveal God's grace, but grace must not be limited to the historical foundation of the Christian faith. Going a step further, many recognize the personal experience of God's grace in spiritual regeneration, "for by grace you have been saved through faith" (Eph. 2:8). Someone has called this "the threshold factor"15 of God's grace in the Christian life. But when Christ, the groom, carries another member of His bride, the church, across the threshold of initial regeneration, He does not "get them in the door" and then declare, "Now, straighten up and live like a Christian. Consider what I would do (WWJD) and live in accordance with My example." As Paul exclaims, "May it never be!" Grace has a much broader and more dynamic meaning than is often projected in the teaching of the contemporary church. Grace is the totality of God's action in total consistency with His own Being and character. The Christian life cannot be lived by any human exertion, but only and entirely by God's grace. This forestalls any concept of an "infused grace" that acts as a divine assistance or a "power booster" to provide whatever the believer lacks to accomplish what God expects.
The activity of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, by the power of His Spirit, is the singular dynamic of Christianity. All manifestation of righteousness, holiness and godliness require the presence and function of Jesus Christ, whose very life and character supersede, conquer and overcome all unrighteousness. This is how the prophet Ezekiel verbalized God's intents, "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh.I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances" (Ezek. 36:26,27). Speaking through Zechariah, God promised, "Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the Lord of hosts" (Zech. 4:6). They foresaw the grace that was to be "realized in Jesus Christ" (John 1:17).
When the risen Lord Jesus Christ comes to live in the Christian, we have the divine "treasure in earthen vessels, that the surpassing greatness of the power may be of God, and not of ourselves" (II Cor. 4:7) - there goes the humanistic thesis of self-potential! "God is at work in us, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13). We are "strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man" (Eph. 3:16). The words of Jesus are clear: "Apart from Me, you can do nothing" (John 15:5).
Only the divine Savior can deal with the sinful and selfish patterns of our behavior. "By the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body" (Rom. 8:13), Paul advised the Romans. "The Spirit sets its desires against the flesh" (Gal. 5:17) are the words he used to encourage the Galatians. Years later the apostle John wrote, "Greater is He who is in you, than he who is in the world" (I John 4:4). As we explained previously, the divine positive swallows up the sinful negatives. Since the "God who is love" (I John 4:8,16) has come to live in the Christian, "the love that controls us" (II Cor. 5:14) counters and overcomes the selfishness that is the opposite of all love.
God does not ask anything of us that He is not willing and prepared to do through us. He is the dynamic of His own demands, the content of His own commands, the expedient of His own expectations, and the means of His own mandates. "This is the grace in which we stand" (Rom. 5:2) in Christ. "God is able to make all grace abound to you, that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed" (II Cor. 9:8). "He equips us in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ" (Heb. 13:21). We have "all power for the attaining of steadfastness and patience (Col. 1:11), and "He will bring it to pass" (I Thess. 5:24).
That God does all that needs doing in our Christian lives is a truth that for some sounds "too good to be true." Worldly wisdom has cautioned us to beware of anything that sounds "too good to be true." Indeed, we should, but in this case the singularity of the good news of the gospel declaring that all the redemptive and restorative work of God is freely given by God's grace in Jesus Christ is the ultimate truth. At the same time, be advised, that to accept God's grace will cost you everything. God's grace is not the "cheap grace" of a "free ride," but the "costly grace" that cost Jesus His life and will cost you yours as well. Only those who are willing to "lose their lives for His sake, will find His saving life" (Matt. 10:39; 16:25; Mk. 8:35; Lk. 9:24) as their eternal gain.
We often only learn to appreciate the dynamic of God's grace in the Christian life when we are brought to the "end of ourselves." When "our sin has found us out." When we have failed and are defeated. When we are brought to our knees by our own inability and weakness. Paul was in the midst of such a situation when God advised him, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness," and Paul responded, "Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may dwell in me" (II Cor. 12:9). We often have to experience what St. John of the Cross called the "dark night of the soul" wherein we cannot see our way through the dilemma we are dealing with, and we despair even that God's grace will be sufficient. We are "left in the dark" to "walk by faith, and not by sight" (II Cor. 5:7) until God's Light shines forth providing the life, energy, and action of His grace. Many Christians do not make it through the dark night of weakness wherein grace is revealed, for they are tempted to "take the easy way out" that bypasses the pain of what seems like estrangement. Thomas Merton explains how some exit the process for a way more exciting:
"Paradoxically, then, though Christ Himself accomplishes the work of our sanctification, the more He does so the more it tends to cost us. The further we advance the more He tends to take away our own strength and deprives us of our human and natural resources, so that in the end we find ourselves in complete poverty and darkness. This is the situation that we find most terrible, and it is against that we rebel. For the strange, sanctifying mystery of Christ's death in us, we substitute the more familiar and comforting routine of our own activity: we abandon His will and take refuse in the more trivial, but more 'satisfying' procedures which interest us and enable us to be interesting in the eyes of others. We think that in this way we can find peace, and make our lives fruitful; but we delude ourselves, and our activity turns out to be spiritually sterile.Insofar as we rely on our own anxious efforts, we are of this world." 16
Divine grace does indeed run counter to all enlightenment understanding and humanistic reasoning. It makes no sense to our American work ethic, our pragmatic concerns for productivity, and our capitalistic premise that "you get what you pay for." The mentality of the world will always regard grace as an escapist pattern of indolent inertia and sloth for those who disdain work and prefer to be "on the dole" in God's kingdom. The contemporary religion of "evangelical humanism" has the same point of view, suspicious that the gospel of grace leads only to passivism and acquiescence that will never serve to build an active church organization. Only the Christian who has submitted himself to God's grace will see it for what it is - the divine dynamic of Christ's life that alone can overcome sin and manifest God's character.
Our Response of Faith
Contrary to the charge that grace fosters passivism and inaction, the human individual is always responsible to function as a contingent, choosing creature who derives character and action from a spirit source. The responsibility of man is best understood as his response-ability to God, His Creator. This response-ability of faith will never produce passivism if we correctly understand that faith is "our receptivity to His activity." Inherent in such a definition is the active expression of God's grace. Faith, thus defined, allows us to understand the statements of James when he wrote, "faith without works is dead" (James 2:17,26) and "faith without works is useless" (James 2:20). Faith (our receptivity of His activity) without works (the outworking of God's grace activity) is dead, useless, and non-existent (by the privation of the activity inherent in the terms). When faith responds in receptivity to God's grace activity, passivism is out of the question because God is not a passive God, but always acts in accord with His character, His Being in action.
In his commentary on Paul's epistle to the Romans, Martin Luther reacts to religious misconceptions of faith.
"They conjure up an idea which they call 'belief,' which they treat as genuine faith. It is but a fabrication, an idea without a corresponding experience in the depths of the heart. It is ineffective and not followed by a better kind of life. Faith puts the old Adam to death and makes us quite different men in heart, in mind, and in all our powers. A man not active in this way is a man without faith." 17
When the Christian's receptivity of faith avails itself to God's activity of grace there will be an inevitable counteraction against all that is contrary to God's character. God always acts in accordance with his character and in order to express His character within His creation unto His own glory. Sin falls short of the glory of God (cf. Rom. 3:23), for sin is any expression of character that is not God's character. Sin is not defined by certain unacceptable actions, but by anything less than the character of God. When the Christian fails to respond in faithful receptivity to God's active expression of His character, then the only alternative to God's action will be a sinful expression of evil character, derived from a source other than God. Despite how religious and pious the action might appear externally, "whatever is not of faith is sin" (Rom. 14:23), and "the one who sins derives what he does from the devil" (I John 3:8).
Receptivity of God's character and activity in faith, both initially and continuously, will exclude sin in the Christian's life. Commenting on the incompatibility of faith and sin, J. Gresham Machen wrote,
"Faith involves a change of the whole nature of man; it involves a new hatred of sin and a new hunger and thirst after righteousness. It is inconceivable that one could accept the gift which Christ offers, and still go on contentedly in sin. For the very thing which Christ offers us is salvation from sin - not only salvation from the guilt of sin, but also salvation from the power of sin." 18
The holy character of God expressed in human behavior for the purpose of God's glory is the objective of all Christian faith. This process of sanctification, of receptivity to the expression of God's holy character by the active manifestation of the "Holy One" (Acts 2:27; 3:12; 13:35), Jesus Christ, dwelling in the Christian, is what constitutes Christianity. J.C. Ryle makes this quite clear in his treatise on "Holiness."

"Sanctification is the invariable result of vital union with Christ. The branch which bears no fruit is no living branch of the vine. The union with Christ which produces no effect on heart and life is a mere formal union, which is worthless before God. The faith which has not a sanctifying influence on the character is no better than the faith of devils. It is a 'dead faith, because it is alone.' In short, where there is no sanctification of life, there is no real faith in Christ." 19
By faith the Christian opens himself up to God's activity in Jesus Christ. We give up our alleged right to control our own lives by submitting to the loving control of the lordship of Jesus Christ. From the brokenness of our admitted powerlessness, we cry, "Whatever You want Lord." We have all made that concession when confronted with a crisis, or when faced with a particularly tough trial, but receptive faith must become a continuity in our lives. Not just when we are facing an emergency, a surgery, a divorce, job loss, bankruptcy, incarceration, etc., but constantly, moment-by-moment, day in and day out, an abandoned availability to whatever the Lord Jesus Christ wants to be and do in our lives.
When faith is thus understood as submission and surrender to God and His desires, we cannot conceive of faith as an instrumental means to achieve a particular end. We do not respond in faith in order to become mature or "spiritual." Faith is not to be regarded as a means to become a spiritual "knower" or a spiritual "father." The objective of faith is always, and only, God Himself. Not that we become God, but that we are available to whatever He wants to do.
A constant prayer of faith can be verbalized throughout the day in the simple affirmation, "Yes, Lord!" "Yes, Lord, I want Your character to be expressed in this situation." "Yes, Lord, show the next opportunity to let the Christ-life be manifested" (cf. II Cor. 4:11). "Yes, Lord, You will not allow me to be tempted beyond what I am able" (I Cor. 10:13). "Yes, Lord, You will keep me from stumbling" (Jude 24). "Yes, Lord, You will cause me to stand" (Rom. 14:4). If "Yes, Lord," were the extent of one's prayer vocabulary, that individual could be walking in the "obedience of faith" (Rom. 1:5; 16:26) and "praying without ceasing" (I Thess. 5:17).
The Christian response of faith is beautifully expressed in the words of the hymn written by Adelaide A. Pollard:
"Have "Have Thine own way, Lord!
Have Thine own way!
Thou art the Potter;
I am the clay.
Mould me and make me,
After Thy will,
While I am waiting,
Yielded and still.

Have Thine own way, Lord!
Have Thine own way!
Hold o'er my being
Absolute sway!
Fill with Thy Spirit
Till all shall see
Christ only, always,
Living in Me! 20
Conclusion
The superficiality of contemporary acculturated ecclesiasticism is truly disturbing. Their response to the message of "Christ at work in you" is often, "Don't be an extremist. Don't be a fanatic. Don't be a puritanical pietist. Don't be a mystical spiritualist." They would prefer that church members simply "go through the motions" of conforming to the established program, willing to be committed and involved by attending the services, tithing their income, and espousing a particular social agenda. The well-oiled ecclesiastical machine thus remains statistically viable, though spiritually bankrupt.
While we have no illusion of reforming the institutional church, we are fully convinced that many Christian individuals who comprise the Body of Christ are desirous of the fullness of Christ's life. Perhaps you have been an active church member for many years and never realized that "Christ is your life" (Col. 3:4), that He jealously desires to function as Lord and Savior in every detail of your life. "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete" (I Thess. 5:23) as Christ becomes "all in all" of your life.
Some of you who read this book have seldom, if ever, taken the time to slow down and listen to God in Christian obedience. So busy living under the premise of an "independent self" who is obliged to please and appease God, you may never have considered how the living Lord Jesus Christ wants to manifest His "saving life" to overcome your sin-patterns of habituated selfishness. As you listen under God, may you understand the grace wherein Paul exclaimed, "I can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me" (Phil. 4:13).
On the other hand, some of you have participated in long introspective expeditions to uncover your sinfulness. You have been overwhelmed with the guilt of being caught in your trespasses, and felt the hot coals of self-condemnation for your inability to suppress your selfishness and gain victory over your weaknesses. Thee is no longer any need to labor under the strictures of a "do-right religion," you can experience the freedom of Christ's work in you, remembering that Jesus said, "Apart from Me, you can do nothing" (John 15:5).
Some of you who read these pages may have trafficked on God's grace. In spiritual pride you may have claimed spiritual "union with Christ" and refused to consider the residual sin-patterns in your soul. Do not resist the work of Christ as Savior in your life, whereby He continues "to save His people from their sins" (Matt. 1:21).
Whatever our past Christian experiences might have been, we all have the opportunity to yield to Christ's work in us as Lord and Savior. By allowing Him to manifest His character of godliness, and thus overcoming our sinfulness, "the fruit of the Spirit which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and the godly control of the self" (Gal. 5:22,23) will be the evidence of "Christ at work in us."

The Full Gospel just got Fuller

Secular life understands only the achievement of steps or grades.When you finish one you move onto say,university.When a Christian like me talks of levels non Christians and young Christians hear that phrase through secular headphones.But in Gods house steps are banned,unlike in any other temple on Earth.The levels are Rooms that anyone is free to enter at any time because Someone else paid the price.So in our meetings when a 5 year old gets the direction for a meeting that's OK cos he or she is free to roam.You spend your lifetime in a series of larger and larger arcs exploring all 3 levels.When you are grownup you don't stop drinking milk just cos you can eat meat do you? Facebook 31st May AC Welch
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Note by AC Welch on Facebook 5th May 2010
The Full Gospel just got Fuller

Heard of Pentecostals talking about the Full Gospel?
Heard of the Full Gospel Businessman's Association?
Well it turns out this is actually the 2/3 full gospel.


Now that's a shocker to many many folk. But it turns out to be true.
There are three distinct layers to this salvation of ours, and God took a lot of time to prepare us with prototypes. I mean, it's not like He thought, how can I bamboozle those children of mine....I know I'll rustle three stages to this Christian Life right past 'em that they'll not know what's hit them!! I'll do it so fast, just so Me and the angels can sit up in heaven and have a good laugh!!!

NO. NO WAY.

Now our problem is we just don't listen. God has spent thousands of years over this deal. And that's just on Earth. From time past immemorial He has been dreaming this one up.

It's something like the way a baby develops. Core sets of cells have to develop first, but what do you know? Each of these core sections subdivide into more and more intricacies.

Or it's like brain development. In the last decades we have discovered a bit about what type of things the brain is doing at what age. And if vital input is missed at certain stages....well....maybe its only the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit that is going to put that stuff into us and effectively "heal" us at a much later stage. Last year, reports came out about how different the teenage brain is, as it prepares for the onslaught of adult understandings.

But you can go too far with this and just assume that life is an endless passage of spiralling development. But ofcourse it isn't. There are three, possibly four clear stages for each of us. Children,teenage,parents and perhaps grandparents.

Now the Bible in 1 John 2 only talks of the first three in spiritual terms.

No, the point of what I am saying is that God has mostly left us examples of threes. You can learn more about this in the talk Introduction to the Third Level 1989 here: http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2010/04/hudson-taylors-holy-spirit-lineage-part_26.html

Perhaps the initial example par excellence is the three generation revelation given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Later on we had the three stage picture of the Tabernacle. Outer Courts,Holy Place,Holiest Place.
Then we had the three main Feasts; Feast of Passover,Feast of Pentecost and Feast of Tabernacles.

This last example gives us a wink and a nudge to the fact that in the Spirit, these stages or levels are going on INDIVIDUALLY and CORPORATELY in a people. Why else would you have a Feast?

A ONE MEMBERED FEAST IS A BIT SAD!!!!!!

Now my friend John just wrote this succinct phrase: " Mine was a Rom 1-5 and Rom 8 church with gifts of the Spirit on top."

Think about it. That sums up most of the last century's Pentecostal teaching right there.

And it sums up the full extent of most pulpits in churches worldwide, and that's saying it's a church which also teaches being born again and filled with the Spirit. Ofcourse the greater number of churches don't even get this far.

Now we shall be diplomatic and say it is their own ignorance that is causing preachers to confine themselves to John's phrase. Seminaries don't generally teach anything more than a "spiritual airy fairy" salvation. Who thinks that's why most non-Christians think Christianity is "airy fairy"?

The less diplomatic view is that as we pay tithes to leaders it is not in their interest that the congregation ever grow, so if they can continuously teach the first principles .....what Steve Mc Vey is calling "Lies", then people never get to actually learn the trade secrets of the Divine Supernatural Indwelling Christ who is actually the one bringing forth His Life in us.

If preachers can miss out the "threefold " pattern of how Christ grows in us...
If they can allegorize, or teach that Romans 6 and 7 is only for non-Christians, so don't fuss your little heads about that one....
If they can keep churches from in any way resembling the middle pupae phase of a butterfly, and keep Christians in the caterpillar stage indefinitely...

they can be receiving several decades of tens or hundreds of tithes , amounting to a lot of money.
Also pastors can rest assured that as the ones listening will never grow much, these leaders will never have any competition and can remain as King of the Pyramid , as Church Pastor No.1.

That's the undiplomatic view.

But the same Jesus growing in me, is the same Jesus growing in you. The same grace is available for all.
People used to describe certain Christians as "special". "Oh they're so lovely. So special"

NOPE sunshine. They are not! The technical Kingdom word for that "special" brother or sister is
NORMAL.

They just got to understand a little sooner that it was all about Jesus growing inside them.....and actually that we were never independent beings in the first place......

So I'm all for preaching the Full Gospel. And we can safely say this, because the gospel isn't going to suddenly develop more levels! But rather we are going to go higher deeper wider further into the immensity of God's love for us as we carry on exploring all three levels.