Wednesday, 7 January 2009
Israel from just about every angle
I wanted to tell Daniel and Heather Cosby about the great messages Christine found yesterday. If you look at today's post you'll see their post and all our comments cover Israel from just about every angle.
Tuesday, 6 January 2009
Christine gave up a lot for me......
This is one of a handful of people who were in the first ever meeting held in a lounge in a house, of what became East Midlands Christian Fellowship. This church, just 30 years on, is now scattered for miles around Derby, whose centre is located right next door to Egg Bank HQ on Pride Park in Derby and under the leadership of Mark Mumford, whose God -given vision was to move beyond the lounge and small backwoods meeting halls around Eastwood, to being a hub church for the East Midlands area.The person pictured is not Mark Mumford, but Christine my wife!
At the time we were married in 1998,I was not in a church. I'd been thrown out of the 2nd Level. Forcibly. And had spent about 10 years exploring the 3rd Level.
So she gave up a massive growing network for a crazy lone visionary who still has to be proved right!!
Amazingly, another church took us in....After 9 months we learned who was leading it. We've been there 10 years, and a year ago we chatted with the leadership!!!!! And even after that they let us stay. Perhaps we're there under provisional contract!! Every so often Jesus gives me a key prophetic Word...which I'm rather glad about....because it makes it harder for them to chuck me out. It's by no means sure though....because I'd given tons of key Words of prophecies and Key prophetic songs in the last setup.....so you can never be quite sure. Still it keeps you on your toes and trusting in Jesus, rather than the setup.
All this to say - Christine found a set of key leadership messages which are free to download from her former Salt and Light network. I've started listening to them. I'd hesitate to foist them on anyone....cos Jesus knows what everyone needs and Sheila and Tim do leadership stuff themselves for example.....so I'll do a St Paul and say I recommend, that is me and not the Lord, but maybe I have the Spirit of the Lord in this.....particularly the Mark Stibbe and Mark Mumford messages(down the page)
Saturday, 3 January 2009
The Title Chapter of this blog
picture: an ailing 98 year old 3rd leveller - Norman Grubb. Evangelising people in 1st World War trenches.Established Inter Varsity Christion unions..Cambridge and Oxford. Established Inter Varsity Press. Joined CT Studd, England's famous cricketer on the mission field in Congo. Married his daughter Pauline. Had significant meeting with Jessie Penn Lewis, where he first discovered the truth of Christ in his form. Co-founder of Worldwide Evangelisation Crusade. Established Christian Literature Crusade.Writer of CT Studd's biography. Writer of Rees Howell's biography on the principles of Intercession. (Rees Howells College spawned Bryn Jones and Rheinhardt Bonnke who shared a room) Over 50 year period writer of books on how the faith life operates, with increasing clarity on "Christ in my form" culminating in Yes I am.
Yes I am by Norman Grubb
Chapter 31
ON, NOW, TO THE THIRD LEVEL
We have seen with unmistakable clarity that there are stages in our becoming settled about who we are by grace, and stages through which we must pass; or we can call them grades from which we must be graduated. We have already looked into two of these(whatever name we decide to call them): justification and unification - Christ for us and Christ in us.
But the Bible makes it plain that there are three grades, not two - and each equally necessary. We have spent much time on the first two, but it is less recognized that there is a third to be consciously entered into.In calling them "grades" or "levels of being" there is always a danger that we may slip back into the old snare of self-effort and self-development and think of them as something we have to attain to.
Chapter 31
ON, NOW, TO THE THIRD LEVEL
We have seen with unmistakable clarity that there are stages in our becoming settled about who we are by grace, and stages through which we must pass; or we can call them grades from which we must be graduated. We have already looked into two of these(whatever name we decide to call them): justification and unification - Christ for us and Christ in us.
But the Bible makes it plain that there are three grades, not two - and each equally necessary. We have spent much time on the first two, but it is less recognized that there is a third to be consciously entered into.In calling them "grades" or "levels of being" there is always a danger that we may slip back into the old snare of self-effort and self-development and think of them as something we have to attain to.
"Growth," also, is a common concept we use to denote what we think of as spiritual progress. How often I hear it said, "Well, it has taken you time and will take me time to get there." So we need a constant reminder that spiritual growth, or the attaining of a new "grade," is not some form of painfully acquired self-enlargement; rather it is the same old story, nothing but a growth in recognition of what Christ, our last Adam, has attained for us which is already ours. That is why growth is spoken by Peter in his Second Epistle with these words: "Grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."
Growth, therefore, is merely the next stage of recognition of who we already are in Him; and that recognition, as we now know, is always and only by the nonworks method of faith, and the Spirit is the one who establishes us.So with this safeguard, we move on to this third level. The simplest description of the three levels (because he uses a down-to-earth analogy) is John's, when he writes to his readers as "little children," "young men," and "fathers" (1 John 2:12-14). He makes brief comments about what he means, spiritually speaking, by these three stages.
A little child is totally dependent externally on his parents and knows nothing but what they outwardly are to him. So a little child in grace knows simply that he was a sinner, that he is forgiven through Christ, and thus, now, God is his heavenly Father.
A young man has moved from outer dependence on his parents to finding his own inner resources for life - progress from outer to inner. "I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you." This is a plain-spoken description of our being established in the "on top" life which we have spent so long in examining in every detail,(see the rest of Yes I am) and into which we have now moved by the second crisis. We now know we are strong - and we know why. Therefore we are no longer tossed about in those old struggles with devil and flesh. We know inwardly, not just outwardly, what first came to us as outer, written word... but which now abides in us, fused into our inner consciousness by the Spirit. What a total description of an established, achieved life... not of trying, hoping, kind of slipping in and out of it, but being!
"I have written unto you, fathers," John states cryptically, "because ye have known Him that is from the beginning." That brings us back to the realization that "knowing" in Scripture usually refers not to mere mental understanding, but implies being mixed with the thing we know. That is why the Bible uses the word for sexual intercourse: "Adam knew Eve his wife." Spiritually, it is inner know-how; and what you know, that you are. "This is eternal life," said Jesus in His great prayer to His Father, "that they might know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent." And we who are born of His Spirit know that knowing is the inner union. So when John says that we "fathers" know Him that is from the beginning, he means that, as fathers, we are in inner union with that Eternal One - not in His beginning,(!!!!!) but as the One who now, as from the beginning, is in the process of completing what He has begun; and we are involved with Him in that completing process. Amazing grace! The point, then, is that we now are no longer dependent children, but cooperating sons: Father and Sons, Inc.!What John has given us on its three levels in such understandable terms is seen all through Scripture in those same three forms. We are united with Christ in His crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension - and Paul wrote letters which concentrate on each of these:
- Galatians on our identification with Him in His death;
- Colossians on our being risen with Him;
- Ephesians on our ascended life, seated with Him in the heavenlies, and its outcome.
- chapters 3 to 5 - justification (little children);
- 6 to 8 - unification (young men);
- 9 to 15 - cooperation, co-saviorhood (fathers).In Hebrews there are the three again. The writer plainly likens Jesus to Moses because, by the new birth, He saves us out of our Egypt, the world; and to Joshua, because He takes us into the land of milk and honey, the promised rest, after we have emerged from the childhood wilderness. Then he stops short very significantly, and says there is a third likeness: to Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God. In this parallel Jesus is our great High Priest. Now whenever there is a high priest, there must be other priests serving along with him. But when speaking here of the order of Melchisedec, the writer does not name anyone as co-priests, because those Hebrew believers had a spiritual blockage en route (5:12-6:2), showed negative reactions to their sufferings (10:32-39), and were tied in knots of self-pity (12:5-13). He does, however, describe the co-priesthood of the third level in his famous list in Hebrews chapter 11 of the giants of faith, who were the intercessor priests of their respective generations. And we are to be such for our God today, "a royal priesthood" (1 Pet. 2:9).
Thursday, 1 January 2009
Prologue to Early Harvest - Lakes in Deep Valleys
We wanted to do something different this Christmas...so we saw a local ad offering a coach trip to Austria for 7 days or so over Christmas. And we had a lovely time.
We had 3 days in Austria itself in Bad Ischl near Salzburg.
In 1972, after being baptised in the Spirit I found I started to get songs. One of the first was written on the back of a card also from Austria to my friend Rachel. It was her house which God sovereignly used to fill us mightily with His Spirit. The "Early Harvest"CD project(mostly recorded in 1990) has a prologue and an epilogue. "Lakes in Deep Valleys" is the prologue and sets the scene for all the other waymarks to follow. I have combined some of Christine's recent photos with the track. Enjoy.
A Preliminary Look at the Two simultaneous Truths. There are 3 growth stages, but we can be plugged into the Melchizedek Order from Day One.
I'll probably develop this further but since it came up today I'll post one of Ursula's latest posts followed by my reply. I'm sure we all relate to this tussle. And it has paralysed the operation of the Living Church for centuries.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Ursula writes:
Its been a long, hard month and a half. The attack has been at its highest yet...and I never expected it to come in the way it did. Was it tough, yes. Was it a blessing? Yes. You see a few things came to light...
1. I have friends who have given me a place to stay and even organised a job for me....I'm blessed.
2. Some not so nice parts of my character came to light...I've learned.
3. I have learned that I have not enough love....and need to seep myself in His love...so His love flows through me...because its difficult for me to love those who attack me so fiercely...
4. I have learned to forgive. Jesus reminded me....I have been forgiven much...out of that place - I can forgive...and let go.
5. I have had many Jesus encounters...of love and my ministry has soared.
I can't count the amount of Jesus encounters I've had. The people God has brought across my path...the taxi driver, the woman in the supermarket, the bookshop...the man sleeping in a doorway...where God has allowed me to be a blessing...to share His love. Such a privilege.
Looking for a church, in a new area - I found two little churches. I thought I was going to get blessed....the Holy Spirit used me to pour out on them. We think we are empty, but in reality we are not. The more we give - the more we receive.
Yesterday two really incredible things happened. Firstly I went to a little Nigerian Church. I walked into big smiling African faces...and three of them belonging to the most delightful little children. One ended up on my lap...and before long this little person was fast asleep...and I sat through a service with this little one on my lap. After the service...I shared a prophetic word with the pastor and his wife...and tears flowed. As I held their hands and prayed for them...and reminded them that "Jesus Sees" - and held her in my arm as she cried - I got to be a messenger of the Most High God...and grace, love and healing flowed. We talked about how home is where other Christians are...see...how can you not be at home when someone's child is snoring softly on your lap? How blessed am I? Later, the pastor called it a 'Divine Connection' - I agree. It has Jesus written all over it. What a privilege to be used by Jesus.
Later that evening...it was dark, and I walked through the town. I came across a man, covered in newspapers in a doorway. I thought he was asleep, but he wasn't. He moved. I backtracked, bent down and asked him if he was hungry. He was. So I crossed the street to KFC, and bought him the biggest KFC meal I could find. I think, in fact, it was called the Big Daddy meal! How ironic is that? I returned, and there he was, he had stacked all the papers neatly, he had tidied up...and was sitting up waiting. I felt like I had just been invited to a banquet. I gave him his food, and prayed a blessing over him...and I walked away having been given a bigger gift than I gave. He taught me. Humility...and thankfulness. I was humbled. Love in the gutter...is real love.
And at the end of an evening...pastors of another church thank me. They say I've brought much wisdom into a hard decision they are making. I don't think I have...and I think...God must have given me words to bless that I did not even know. It sure wasn't me. My heart goes out...its not easy being a pioneer on the frontlines.
I listen to the taxi driver ask me where Santa Claus comes into the Christian faith...and I want to cry. How did we let it get to a place where Santa is a part of the bible...a part of this beautiful Jesus? I don't have a problem with Santa, I have a problem with Santa being part of the gospel.
I listen to a taxi driver (taxi drivers and I tend to have long conversations) ask me why the church teaches against adultry and the love of money....yet these are the very places all the leaders he has been under in the church have fallen? He doesn't believe anymore. I apologise. 'I'm sorry', I say, ' we the church did this to you. Its our fault. We misrepresented God. I'm so sorry.' Then I told him of a God of love, grace and real power. He stops when we get to our destination, turns off the ignition, and listens for 15 more minutes. He tells me what I'm telling him is true, and 'deep'. I got out the car....and I cried. For what we have done, through years of church believing in works, and turning God into a fable - a comfortable theory. We have this unique opportunity to love...this unique opportunity to teach...this unique honor to heal....so show Love's face to a dying world...yet we forget - we are His representation on earth....we bring heaven down to earth...or legalism and judgement.
Mid January I've been asked to preach at a church for their 'Outreach Service' - I wanted to say no. But I didn't. Jesus told me I'd have an itinerant preaching ministry in the UK...I don't feel ready. I didn't expect it to come so fast. I have nothing to offer, but Jesus has everything to offer. And I'm just willing to be a vessel. Thats my hearts cry. Where I have nothing to say - that He would give me His words. Then I can't go wrong. A few other opportunities have raised their heads...sooner than I feel ready, and I remember a friend once tell me...you will never feel ready. I aslo know, and have peace...that now is the time. I don't have even half the amount of money I need to survive till next pay day - I'm excited to see how He supplies!
I'm out of my comfort zone...and loving it. Its the unbelievers that are teaching me....that are humbling me. Its Love...and a great big God....we are just a little people....and He is a great big God...who deigns to love us. How honoured are we?
I love you all....blessings on you all.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
My reply
Good to read your stuff again.
The last few months has forced me to analyze/ become aware of these 2 things running side by side.
1 the process of growth
2 our Melchizedek linkage from Day One with the Living -Now -Jesus.
And they're both simultaneously true.
We can never say we're not ready.
Like the fig tree which Jesus cursed.
Because life has to do with plugging into either 1 spirit or another Spirit...if we are connected to Jesus, in a mysterious way we are always ready...cos it's Him and He's always ready. This is a mystery and runs completely counter to our human idea of building up enough left-brain learning to be considered expert enough on a subject to be able to deliver it.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
The embarrassing truth is.... so often the biggest sins are going on...then repentances...and letting Jesus pick us up again....then what do you know? He's off using us again, with the most specific prophecies, or the most glorious love acts which you describe here.
The world look on scoffingly and deride us as using grace to cover our failures. But the truth is hidden deep in the hearts of people, places too deep for the world to see....our heart directions are basically for the Kingdom....just as it was for David in the Bible....we just keep humbling ourselves before God, returning to Him...as it is written "In returning and rest shall you be saved". Ed Miller taught us that one. This also runs counter to our flesh, because when we fail our flesh wants to try twice as hard before returning to God. Our flesh does not like us returning empty handed to God. Our flesh likes steps up to temples.. ( In the tabernacle there were none)Our flesh likes to bring the fruit of its labours like Cain's corn....not Abel's lamb...the Jesus Lamb who was slain for us.
So keep on keeping on girl!!
Just realise that anything Jesus happens to do through us , says nothing about us as "independant beings". You are not Ursula the Power ministry descended from a power book comic....you are simply a vessel who every so often actually lets Jesus get on and live His life through you....if anything, more so after you have failed!!!!!
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Ursula writes:
Its been a long, hard month and a half. The attack has been at its highest yet...and I never expected it to come in the way it did. Was it tough, yes. Was it a blessing? Yes. You see a few things came to light...
1. I have friends who have given me a place to stay and even organised a job for me....I'm blessed.
2. Some not so nice parts of my character came to light...I've learned.
3. I have learned that I have not enough love....and need to seep myself in His love...so His love flows through me...because its difficult for me to love those who attack me so fiercely...
4. I have learned to forgive. Jesus reminded me....I have been forgiven much...out of that place - I can forgive...and let go.
5. I have had many Jesus encounters...of love and my ministry has soared.
I can't count the amount of Jesus encounters I've had. The people God has brought across my path...the taxi driver, the woman in the supermarket, the bookshop...the man sleeping in a doorway...where God has allowed me to be a blessing...to share His love. Such a privilege.
Looking for a church, in a new area - I found two little churches. I thought I was going to get blessed....the Holy Spirit used me to pour out on them. We think we are empty, but in reality we are not. The more we give - the more we receive.
Yesterday two really incredible things happened. Firstly I went to a little Nigerian Church. I walked into big smiling African faces...and three of them belonging to the most delightful little children. One ended up on my lap...and before long this little person was fast asleep...and I sat through a service with this little one on my lap. After the service...I shared a prophetic word with the pastor and his wife...and tears flowed. As I held their hands and prayed for them...and reminded them that "Jesus Sees" - and held her in my arm as she cried - I got to be a messenger of the Most High God...and grace, love and healing flowed. We talked about how home is where other Christians are...see...how can you not be at home when someone's child is snoring softly on your lap? How blessed am I? Later, the pastor called it a 'Divine Connection' - I agree. It has Jesus written all over it. What a privilege to be used by Jesus.
Later that evening...it was dark, and I walked through the town. I came across a man, covered in newspapers in a doorway. I thought he was asleep, but he wasn't. He moved. I backtracked, bent down and asked him if he was hungry. He was. So I crossed the street to KFC, and bought him the biggest KFC meal I could find. I think, in fact, it was called the Big Daddy meal! How ironic is that? I returned, and there he was, he had stacked all the papers neatly, he had tidied up...and was sitting up waiting. I felt like I had just been invited to a banquet. I gave him his food, and prayed a blessing over him...and I walked away having been given a bigger gift than I gave. He taught me. Humility...and thankfulness. I was humbled. Love in the gutter...is real love.
And at the end of an evening...pastors of another church thank me. They say I've brought much wisdom into a hard decision they are making. I don't think I have...and I think...God must have given me words to bless that I did not even know. It sure wasn't me. My heart goes out...its not easy being a pioneer on the frontlines.
I listen to the taxi driver ask me where Santa Claus comes into the Christian faith...and I want to cry. How did we let it get to a place where Santa is a part of the bible...a part of this beautiful Jesus? I don't have a problem with Santa, I have a problem with Santa being part of the gospel.
I listen to a taxi driver (taxi drivers and I tend to have long conversations) ask me why the church teaches against adultry and the love of money....yet these are the very places all the leaders he has been under in the church have fallen? He doesn't believe anymore. I apologise. 'I'm sorry', I say, ' we the church did this to you. Its our fault. We misrepresented God. I'm so sorry.' Then I told him of a God of love, grace and real power. He stops when we get to our destination, turns off the ignition, and listens for 15 more minutes. He tells me what I'm telling him is true, and 'deep'. I got out the car....and I cried. For what we have done, through years of church believing in works, and turning God into a fable - a comfortable theory. We have this unique opportunity to love...this unique opportunity to teach...this unique honor to heal....so show Love's face to a dying world...yet we forget - we are His representation on earth....we bring heaven down to earth...or legalism and judgement.
Mid January I've been asked to preach at a church for their 'Outreach Service' - I wanted to say no. But I didn't. Jesus told me I'd have an itinerant preaching ministry in the UK...I don't feel ready. I didn't expect it to come so fast. I have nothing to offer, but Jesus has everything to offer. And I'm just willing to be a vessel. Thats my hearts cry. Where I have nothing to say - that He would give me His words. Then I can't go wrong. A few other opportunities have raised their heads...sooner than I feel ready, and I remember a friend once tell me...you will never feel ready. I aslo know, and have peace...that now is the time. I don't have even half the amount of money I need to survive till next pay day - I'm excited to see how He supplies!
I'm out of my comfort zone...and loving it. Its the unbelievers that are teaching me....that are humbling me. Its Love...and a great big God....we are just a little people....and He is a great big God...who deigns to love us. How honoured are we?
I love you all....blessings on you all.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
My reply
Good to read your stuff again.
The last few months has forced me to analyze/ become aware of these 2 things running side by side.
1 the process of growth
2 our Melchizedek linkage from Day One with the Living -Now -Jesus.
And they're both simultaneously true.
We can never say we're not ready.
Like the fig tree which Jesus cursed.
Because life has to do with plugging into either 1 spirit or another Spirit...if we are connected to Jesus, in a mysterious way we are always ready...cos it's Him and He's always ready. This is a mystery and runs completely counter to our human idea of building up enough left-brain learning to be considered expert enough on a subject to be able to deliver it.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
The embarrassing truth is.... so often the biggest sins are going on...then repentances...and letting Jesus pick us up again....then what do you know? He's off using us again, with the most specific prophecies, or the most glorious love acts which you describe here.
The world look on scoffingly and deride us as using grace to cover our failures. But the truth is hidden deep in the hearts of people, places too deep for the world to see....our heart directions are basically for the Kingdom....just as it was for David in the Bible....we just keep humbling ourselves before God, returning to Him...as it is written "In returning and rest shall you be saved". Ed Miller taught us that one. This also runs counter to our flesh, because when we fail our flesh wants to try twice as hard before returning to God. Our flesh does not like us returning empty handed to God. Our flesh likes steps up to temples.. ( In the tabernacle there were none)Our flesh likes to bring the fruit of its labours like Cain's corn....not Abel's lamb...the Jesus Lamb who was slain for us.
So keep on keeping on girl!!
Just realise that anything Jesus happens to do through us , says nothing about us as "independant beings". You are not Ursula the Power ministry descended from a power book comic....you are simply a vessel who every so often actually lets Jesus get on and live His life through you....if anything, more so after you have failed!!!!!
Tuesday, 30 December 2008
Thursday, 18 December 2008
We can reposition ourselves
If you want to learn more about repositioning yourself or your church I would recommend downloading this year's series of messages from Rob Rufus in Hong Kong: Invading the Impossible series, and Attitudes that attract the empowering grace of God.Here is something I wrote down earlier.
In 1986 the Spirit showed a picture of some natives in a jungle gazing skyward in awe at a metal bird. To us it is just a plane. The Spirit was saying "What is the difference between the natives and those who perhaps build the plane in America? Answer: 100 years of know-how in flight. He was saying in the same way, up until now we have been involved in praying in revivals, which have passed by us in a similar way, but never understood how or quite why. This remained a mystery. But now the Spirit wanted to take us into his confidence and give us know-how about what is really going on. The rest of this material can be found in Dan's Archives here the copy of my Letter to the Charismatic Movement 1990 posted 15th May2008.
The substance of all these blog posts comes from listening to God while tuning and driving. In the last few days I feel prompted to give some specific examples. Now in the old scheme of things, any negatives were condemnatory, sounded permanent and thus engendered dissensions and fierce battles in the Body of Christ.
Here's the good news! As in the passage above, while there still remain mysteries in God...these mysteries are not to be too mysterious. We are learning how to do stuff!!! We won't for ever and a day be a group of natives staring upward....we are being made co-workers with Christ. Co-sharers in His operations. What I call life in the order of Melchizedek ( see the post series).
You want another confirmatory verse?
"The knowledge of the glory of God will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea". That's the knowledge...the How to...the Spirit principles which allow us to open our hearts to God and make ourselves available to join in with His contemporary significant acts!!
Without getting too heavy about this point I do want to share a bit of 70s history. Then bring it up to date with some stuff a piano client was sharing. I knew she was a bit different when I saw Bill Johnson's book on her settee!
In 1970 Chorleywood had John Perry as minister. The AmershamOld Town Baptist Church had Eric Chambers. Goldhill Baptist nearby had David Pawson. These were all key figures in the early years of UK charismatic renewal in denominational churches. Now, unbeknown to most after all these years is this !!! All three met together regularly to pray and encourage each other. I believe some or all received input also from the nearby Slough Pentecostal pastor Billy Richards who later tragically died...in true stoic Pentecostal form...while believing God to heal his cancer.
All 3 leaders,Perry,Chambers, and Pawson moved on to other churches, but their works remain.
Here is the enigma. All 3 churches had access to the same stuff. All shared input from apostles/prophets/international ministries of the day. If anything...the Baptist churches were ahead on the born again front...as would be expected in those days.
So how is it that the only church anyone has heard of across Britain is Chorleywood?
Who brought in Graham Pulkingham and Body ministry, Juan Carlos Ortiz, then John Wimber in the 80s? Who founded Soul Survivor and New Wine...both conferences with national impact? Who helped HolyTrinityBrompton enable Alpha Courses, and encouraged the Toronto Blessing also with HTB?
Where were the other two churches in the national stakes? Who has even heard of them?
Well this is what my client shared. Apparently every single visiting ministry to Goldhill this year has said the same thing. God wants His church back! Now this is supernatural and should be an encouragement. He is about to move...so fasten your seatbelts guys!
My church was the Amersham Old Town Church,now Kings Church. And when I re-visited after 32 years I was disappointed. But the same will be true of them. God wants to move. He always wants to do more than we can ask or think. And the great news is we can position ourselves!!!
In 1986 the Spirit showed a picture of some natives in a jungle gazing skyward in awe at a metal bird. To us it is just a plane. The Spirit was saying "What is the difference between the natives and those who perhaps build the plane in America? Answer: 100 years of know-how in flight. He was saying in the same way, up until now we have been involved in praying in revivals, which have passed by us in a similar way, but never understood how or quite why. This remained a mystery. But now the Spirit wanted to take us into his confidence and give us know-how about what is really going on. The rest of this material can be found in Dan's Archives here the copy of my Letter to the Charismatic Movement 1990 posted 15th May2008.
The substance of all these blog posts comes from listening to God while tuning and driving. In the last few days I feel prompted to give some specific examples. Now in the old scheme of things, any negatives were condemnatory, sounded permanent and thus engendered dissensions and fierce battles in the Body of Christ.
Here's the good news! As in the passage above, while there still remain mysteries in God...these mysteries are not to be too mysterious. We are learning how to do stuff!!! We won't for ever and a day be a group of natives staring upward....we are being made co-workers with Christ. Co-sharers in His operations. What I call life in the order of Melchizedek ( see the post series).
You want another confirmatory verse?
"The knowledge of the glory of God will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea". That's the knowledge...the How to...the Spirit principles which allow us to open our hearts to God and make ourselves available to join in with His contemporary significant acts!!
Without getting too heavy about this point I do want to share a bit of 70s history. Then bring it up to date with some stuff a piano client was sharing. I knew she was a bit different when I saw Bill Johnson's book on her settee!
In 1970 Chorleywood had John Perry as minister. The AmershamOld Town Baptist Church had Eric Chambers. Goldhill Baptist nearby had David Pawson. These were all key figures in the early years of UK charismatic renewal in denominational churches. Now, unbeknown to most after all these years is this !!! All three met together regularly to pray and encourage each other. I believe some or all received input also from the nearby Slough Pentecostal pastor Billy Richards who later tragically died...in true stoic Pentecostal form...while believing God to heal his cancer.
All 3 leaders,Perry,Chambers, and Pawson moved on to other churches, but their works remain.
Here is the enigma. All 3 churches had access to the same stuff. All shared input from apostles/prophets/international ministries of the day. If anything...the Baptist churches were ahead on the born again front...as would be expected in those days.
So how is it that the only church anyone has heard of across Britain is Chorleywood?
Who brought in Graham Pulkingham and Body ministry, Juan Carlos Ortiz, then John Wimber in the 80s? Who founded Soul Survivor and New Wine...both conferences with national impact? Who helped HolyTrinityBrompton enable Alpha Courses, and encouraged the Toronto Blessing also with HTB?
Where were the other two churches in the national stakes? Who has even heard of them?
Well this is what my client shared. Apparently every single visiting ministry to Goldhill this year has said the same thing. God wants His church back! Now this is supernatural and should be an encouragement. He is about to move...so fasten your seatbelts guys!
My church was the Amersham Old Town Church,now Kings Church. And when I re-visited after 32 years I was disappointed. But the same will be true of them. God wants to move. He always wants to do more than we can ask or think. And the great news is we can position ourselves!!!
Thursday, 11 December 2008
I've made some changes
I know it's messy. But I'm sick to the back teeth of people thinking this is some weird elitist site.
Then when I heard Rob's message "Taking away the veil" (see the link) for the 2nd time I realised we really are on the same hymnsheet. You see once people understand the Genesis 3:5 thing, you begin to see ...yes...for the first time in history...we're seeing a real removal of the former lies of Satan, to begin to see the Christ life formed corporately and individually in us.
At the moment many are calling it Law. But it's this remote-controlled living where we try to conform according to laws and statutes...
when there's no need for remote-controlled living
we're now battery-powered by Christ Himself through His own Living Spirit of Life!!!
Then when I heard Rob's message "Taking away the veil" (see the link) for the 2nd time I realised we really are on the same hymnsheet. You see once people understand the Genesis 3:5 thing, you begin to see ...yes...for the first time in history...we're seeing a real removal of the former lies of Satan, to begin to see the Christ life formed corporately and individually in us.
At the moment many are calling it Law. But it's this remote-controlled living where we try to conform according to laws and statutes...
when there's no need for remote-controlled living
we're now battery-powered by Christ Himself through His own Living Spirit of Life!!!
Wednesday, 10 December 2008
Tim Atchley's post on Seed needs a wider broadcast
...........perhaps it was the damage I received when I received the baptism in the Holy Spirit , which turned me from a mild-mannered intellectual into wanting to preach into our main school assembly at 14...whatever it was...but there are various hot buttons that people like Mark Driscoll, my friend Michael Hammond or here Tim Atchley can press.............(Hope he doesn't mind this further example of my ministry of plagiarism) Tim is Sheila's husband.....
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Tim writes :Sowing Precious Seed Part 3
In the Parable of the Sower Jesus was communicating the pattern of the ministry these men and any witnesses of His to come after them would have.It also reveals the ongoing condition of people throughout the world, for all ages. These four types of people are present with us today, and will continue to be with us till the end of the age.This parable is meant to enable us to be faithful to the Lord as His witnesses of His Gospel till He comes.Jesus does not make the goal the fruit itself. The goal is the spreading of the Gospel. Why spread the Gospel?Most would say because it is what will bring men and women to Christ, and there is truth in saying this. In fact Scripture tells us that it is the very power of God unto salvation. But there is more.The Gospel needs to fall on every heart and confront mankind concerning the reality of God, the faithfulness of Jesus Christ the Son, and the work He accomplished.Every ear is entitled to hear the word, and every heart is given a chance to allow it to work. Each soil will reveal what nature it is. But the goal for sharing the Gospel needs to be in the sharing itself.This makes success much different from modern Christianity has made it out to be.Modern Christianity has convinced it’s followers that unless people are receiving Christ we are not getting anything done. I beg to differ with this ideology.In the parable of the Sower I find that a faithful sowing of seed regardless of outcome is what pleases the Father. Jesus in no way indicates that the Sower was wrong for throwing seed on all the types of soil.Nothing in the parable spoke of what to do about the types of soil. In no way is there any instruction on how to change the type of heart a person has at the moment we share the Gospel with them.On one hand we say that salvation is the Lord’s business, but on the other we want to be able to share with someone, have them pray to receive Christ, and then take the credit for their coming to know Him.What if Christians got a revelation that success according to Jesus is found in faithful seed sowing without demanding a certain outcome?I wonder how many believers would become empowered to share the Gospel for the first time if not more than they have already?
My reply:
1.This is amazing and needs to be broadcast more widely. We are always success oriented and this has had a paralyzing effect.Another thing that takes our eyes off a false success orientation came through Jorge Pradas who said Evangelism was so God could receive greater glory.(i.e.He is already receiving glory from what He is working in our own lives...He needs to receive greater glory by having a whole bunch more kids to work with.
2. Sheila has not said anything about how you are with Mark Driscoll. You'll know from Dan and my posts that there are certain misgivings. But one thing was fantastic about his talks in Brighton.(TOAM2008 free downloads.sessions 2,4,6) Everything they do on Mars Hill is directed towards more people coming to know the Lord. He really stressed they have no missions department! He doesn't use them. Every single facet of the church is geared to growth anyway.Many many practical ideas for pastors.
3. As mentioned in my testimony post (baptism video) I learned a bit about pushiness! I am nowhere near as pushy as my evangelist friend Michael, (who I am going to tell about this post by the way). What I learned was this....sometimes we acquiesce too readily to the unsaved person's brain which is working overtime to try and sort everything out mentally before giving assent to the gospel. While we are never to cross the sanctitiy of another human's will...the truth is no human brain is ever going tie up every loose end before taking the step of obedience and faith of humbly submitting to Christ. And counter-intuitively...having done so, the brain then starts putting together truths that have eluded it for decades, quite quickly....all within a very short while of knowing Jesus. So my experience with my friend has somewhat spurred me on. So many good things and changes have occurred for him already.There's a similarity here with the sales process. A good salesman gets a bottomline decision from another person....this takes politeness but firmness. The devil does not want a decision for salvation of any kind, and is continually seeking to overcomplicate everything.
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Tim writes :Sowing Precious Seed Part 3
In the Parable of the Sower Jesus was communicating the pattern of the ministry these men and any witnesses of His to come after them would have.It also reveals the ongoing condition of people throughout the world, for all ages. These four types of people are present with us today, and will continue to be with us till the end of the age.This parable is meant to enable us to be faithful to the Lord as His witnesses of His Gospel till He comes.Jesus does not make the goal the fruit itself. The goal is the spreading of the Gospel. Why spread the Gospel?Most would say because it is what will bring men and women to Christ, and there is truth in saying this. In fact Scripture tells us that it is the very power of God unto salvation. But there is more.The Gospel needs to fall on every heart and confront mankind concerning the reality of God, the faithfulness of Jesus Christ the Son, and the work He accomplished.Every ear is entitled to hear the word, and every heart is given a chance to allow it to work. Each soil will reveal what nature it is. But the goal for sharing the Gospel needs to be in the sharing itself.This makes success much different from modern Christianity has made it out to be.Modern Christianity has convinced it’s followers that unless people are receiving Christ we are not getting anything done. I beg to differ with this ideology.In the parable of the Sower I find that a faithful sowing of seed regardless of outcome is what pleases the Father. Jesus in no way indicates that the Sower was wrong for throwing seed on all the types of soil.Nothing in the parable spoke of what to do about the types of soil. In no way is there any instruction on how to change the type of heart a person has at the moment we share the Gospel with them.On one hand we say that salvation is the Lord’s business, but on the other we want to be able to share with someone, have them pray to receive Christ, and then take the credit for their coming to know Him.What if Christians got a revelation that success according to Jesus is found in faithful seed sowing without demanding a certain outcome?I wonder how many believers would become empowered to share the Gospel for the first time if not more than they have already?
My reply:
1.This is amazing and needs to be broadcast more widely. We are always success oriented and this has had a paralyzing effect.Another thing that takes our eyes off a false success orientation came through Jorge Pradas who said Evangelism was so God could receive greater glory.(i.e.He is already receiving glory from what He is working in our own lives...He needs to receive greater glory by having a whole bunch more kids to work with.
2. Sheila has not said anything about how you are with Mark Driscoll. You'll know from Dan and my posts that there are certain misgivings. But one thing was fantastic about his talks in Brighton.(TOAM2008 free downloads.sessions 2,4,6) Everything they do on Mars Hill is directed towards more people coming to know the Lord. He really stressed they have no missions department! He doesn't use them. Every single facet of the church is geared to growth anyway.Many many practical ideas for pastors.
3. As mentioned in my testimony post (baptism video) I learned a bit about pushiness! I am nowhere near as pushy as my evangelist friend Michael, (who I am going to tell about this post by the way). What I learned was this....sometimes we acquiesce too readily to the unsaved person's brain which is working overtime to try and sort everything out mentally before giving assent to the gospel. While we are never to cross the sanctitiy of another human's will...the truth is no human brain is ever going tie up every loose end before taking the step of obedience and faith of humbly submitting to Christ. And counter-intuitively...having done so, the brain then starts putting together truths that have eluded it for decades, quite quickly....all within a very short while of knowing Jesus. So my experience with my friend has somewhat spurred me on. So many good things and changes have occurred for him already.There's a similarity here with the sales process. A good salesman gets a bottomline decision from another person....this takes politeness but firmness. The devil does not want a decision for salvation of any kind, and is continually seeking to overcomplicate everything.
Monday, 8 December 2008
Northern Europe and Russia - Update
General note:
Some readers might get really confused as to what my position is as they trawl through these posts. In the last post I mentioned various misgivings I have...and here am I championing David Hathaway. Listen, I used to get frustrated with Billy Graham, who never once talked about the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. But I was converted through his film ministry and Billy faithfully pursued his evangelistic calling to the ends of the earth and to the end of his life. Anyone introducing people to Jesus needs support and Jesus is well able to fill in any gaps through His Word and by direct Holy Spirit revelation....because He is alive!!! Here are some key historic breakthroughs happening before our eyes right now. This is very much a follow on from the Nicholas and Pam post.
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David Hathaway writes:Thank you for your support during 2008 - this year we have held TV crusades and broadcast in 11 cities acrossRussia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Estonia and Bulgaria - in addition we have held ministry conferences in 18 locations in Europe and USA. Also each week, our Gospel programmes are shown in 74 nations, not on 'Christian' TV, but on secular TV, to unbelievers-with responses from as far apart as Greenland, Iceland, Europe and even Kuwait!
Estonia - a breakthrough in evangelism in Europe - was the most powerful crusade in my life! Then, at the beginning of this month, December, we broadcast the crusade for the whole nation to see on their most popular channels at the most popular times, with repeat broadcasts included in the price! The response is overwhelming and still coming in - the entire nation has been touched. One woman, who watched the broadcast and who had attended the actual crusade, sent this testimony: 'Thank you for your ministry in Tallinn, our small child was healed
from a skin disease. We also took our unsaved friend, who had a problem with deformed legs from childhood. When he went forward to accept Christ, his legs became hot, he looked down and saw he was completely healed! It was also wonderful to see the crusade again on our local secular TV!'
In Estonia, right now, 110,000 follow-up newspapers carrying the crusade reports are being distributed across Estonia and Latvia by the Government Social Services and other outlets! Because of the power of God in Estonia, the churches in Lithuania are now asking me to hold a similar conference and crusade in Vilnius during 2009.
I went straight from the power of the Estonia crusade into Perm in Russia - the most powerful crusade in Russia yet -1000 new converts attended the follow-up meeting, 800 joined the house groups, and 100 outstanding healings were confirmed. From Russia I went to the Russian churches in America where, in one meeting, 500 young people gave their lives to Christ! And now in Bulgaria, a few days ago, I'm seeing the power of God increasing. The need of the world is stronger and more desperate now than ever, and God will answer by fire, by power.
I need you to continue in prayer for finance. - Because of the increase in evangelism this year, we still have a debt of £150,000 in the UK, plus a debt of $400,000 (US dollars) in Russia for the last crusades.
This current crisis is creating the greatest hunger, the greatest opportunity, for evangelism. All over Europe the people are desperate for the Gospel, pastors are pleading with me to come, the churches are uniting, and the unbelievers will come in their thousands because their only hope is in Christ. - We need to clear our debt so that we can begin to plan the crusades in Russia, Ukraine, Mongolia, Armenia, Slovakia, as well as Holland, Germany and the UK for 2009.
I believe that, if we will wrestle with God in prayer like Jacob did, the Lord will bless us in this crisis - and not only deliver us - but cause it to be seen that He is meeting our needs when others are falling.! pray for God's peace and guidance to be with you during this economic crisis; and in January I will show you how you this is part of God's Prophetic Plan to hasten the Return of Christ!
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
There are some downloadable videos from these crusades: http://www.propheticvision.org.uk/
Some readers might get really confused as to what my position is as they trawl through these posts. In the last post I mentioned various misgivings I have...and here am I championing David Hathaway. Listen, I used to get frustrated with Billy Graham, who never once talked about the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. But I was converted through his film ministry and Billy faithfully pursued his evangelistic calling to the ends of the earth and to the end of his life. Anyone introducing people to Jesus needs support and Jesus is well able to fill in any gaps through His Word and by direct Holy Spirit revelation....because He is alive!!! Here are some key historic breakthroughs happening before our eyes right now. This is very much a follow on from the Nicholas and Pam post.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
David Hathaway writes:Thank you for your support during 2008 - this year we have held TV crusades and broadcast in 11 cities acrossRussia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Estonia and Bulgaria - in addition we have held ministry conferences in 18 locations in Europe and USA. Also each week, our Gospel programmes are shown in 74 nations, not on 'Christian' TV, but on secular TV, to unbelievers-with responses from as far apart as Greenland, Iceland, Europe and even Kuwait!
Estonia - a breakthrough in evangelism in Europe - was the most powerful crusade in my life! Then, at the beginning of this month, December, we broadcast the crusade for the whole nation to see on their most popular channels at the most popular times, with repeat broadcasts included in the price! The response is overwhelming and still coming in - the entire nation has been touched. One woman, who watched the broadcast and who had attended the actual crusade, sent this testimony: 'Thank you for your ministry in Tallinn, our small child was healed
from a skin disease. We also took our unsaved friend, who had a problem with deformed legs from childhood. When he went forward to accept Christ, his legs became hot, he looked down and saw he was completely healed! It was also wonderful to see the crusade again on our local secular TV!'
In Estonia, right now, 110,000 follow-up newspapers carrying the crusade reports are being distributed across Estonia and Latvia by the Government Social Services and other outlets! Because of the power of God in Estonia, the churches in Lithuania are now asking me to hold a similar conference and crusade in Vilnius during 2009.
I went straight from the power of the Estonia crusade into Perm in Russia - the most powerful crusade in Russia yet -1000 new converts attended the follow-up meeting, 800 joined the house groups, and 100 outstanding healings were confirmed. From Russia I went to the Russian churches in America where, in one meeting, 500 young people gave their lives to Christ! And now in Bulgaria, a few days ago, I'm seeing the power of God increasing. The need of the world is stronger and more desperate now than ever, and God will answer by fire, by power.
I need you to continue in prayer for finance. - Because of the increase in evangelism this year, we still have a debt of £150,000 in the UK, plus a debt of $400,000 (US dollars) in Russia for the last crusades.
This current crisis is creating the greatest hunger, the greatest opportunity, for evangelism. All over Europe the people are desperate for the Gospel, pastors are pleading with me to come, the churches are uniting, and the unbelievers will come in their thousands because their only hope is in Christ. - We need to clear our debt so that we can begin to plan the crusades in Russia, Ukraine, Mongolia, Armenia, Slovakia, as well as Holland, Germany and the UK for 2009.
I believe that, if we will wrestle with God in prayer like Jacob did, the Lord will bless us in this crisis - and not only deliver us - but cause it to be seen that He is meeting our needs when others are falling.! pray for God's peace and guidance to be with you during this economic crisis; and in January I will show you how you this is part of God's Prophetic Plan to hasten the Return of Christ!
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
There are some downloadable videos from these crusades: http://www.propheticvision.org.uk/
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